42: I’m Tired of Being Strong (Holding it together after loss)

Episode 42: I’m Tired of Being Strong (What everyone sees after loss)

For many widowers, strength becomes a role they never asked to play. You keep showing up. You take care of the kids. You pay the bills. You go to work. You handle the responsibilities. And somewhere along the way, people start telling you how strong you are.  But what happens when you're exhausted?

In this episode, Jamal and David talk openly about strength fatigue—the emotional, mental, and physical exhaustion that can come from carrying grief, responsibility, and expectations for far too long. They share personal experiences of functioning while depleted, feeling pressure to hold everything together, and struggling to ask for help even when they desperately needed it.

Together, they explore the difference between resilience and suppression, why burnout can quietly disguise itself as strength, and how rest, vulnerability, therapy, and trusted relationships can become part of the healing process. Because sometimes the strongest thing a man can do isn't carry more—it's finally putting some of the weight down.

Getting Back Up: Finding Life After Death is a podcast that explores the raw, unfiltered reality of surviving profound personal loss—and finding a way forward.  The idea for the podcast was born after David and Jamal met in 2023. Both widowers, who had lost their wives to cancer, quickly found a deep connection through multiple conversations about pain, perseverance, and parenthood. They realized that while men often bond over music, sports, or TV, they rarely speak candidly about loss or emotional recovery. Getting Back Up was created to change that narrative—blending the everyday with the existential in a format that’s as relatable as it is real. 

Getting knocked down is part of life. Getting back up is how we live. 

Hosts: David McClain & Jamal Jones
Executive Director: Marlon Jackson 
Editing: Marlon Jackson
Music: 
Grenada, "Treasure" 
McDonald, Otis, "Phife for Life", otismusic.com

Thank you for listening! Follow us on Instagram/TikTok @getbackuppodcast and on X @GBUpodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to Getting Back Up with Greek Meet Growth. Two men, two fathers, and one shared journey of rebuilding.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

We're talking about life after cancer, love, loss, and everything no one tells you.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

I'm David McLean. And I'm Jamal Jones. And welcome to Getting Back Up, Finding Life After Death. Uh D, have you ever you ever hit those days where you are tired of holding the world up on your shoulders? Yeah, man. I mean, it's it's it's I mean, it's I I I empathize with this. I feel this so deeply. And it's not that men don't deal with this all the time, but when you go through the loss, that grieving process, like it it's it's heavier. And because you're carrying and just kind of you look normal, I feel like everybody thinks that you're just holding it all together.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Yeah, that you're functioning, but I mean, meanwhile, internally, then you're exhausted.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Yeah. So today, that's exactly what we want to talk about. It's about that strength fatigue. Everybody kind of reaches that point.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Yeah, you're talking about the pressure that widowers feel just from the idea, just from the the the the dynamic of holding everything together. I mean, I'm gonna be like, shit, I feel it now. Like, like like it's coming every day. It's coming. Like, I mean, you know, I I I feel it now as a is a is a my my new marriage, my this next phase. But then there's the elements of kind of the support in the family and talking to old family and friends who are are from that part of your journey. That it's still there.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Yeah, and man, we're we're just trying to let y'all know it it's there, and the exhaustion is real, but it's not a sign of weakness. Yeah, it isn't breaking your exterior, exterior to the point that you aren't able to function and and move on. We we we just want y'all to know you you've been carrying stuff for a long time, and you need a break.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Yeah, no, and and and the break is necessary, and sometimes it's it is perfectly fine to scream mercy.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Yeah, yeah, there's no question about it. Man, I I can remember the the times that just everything kind of felt like it was falling apart. There's too many people depended on me, particularly in the household with all the different activities and everything else. Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. Yeah, yeah. You know, kids, work, the the the bills, maybe getting into another relationship to to a great extent, but you know, life life keeps moving and we have to end the call.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

And and like I said, I mean, people, I think a lot of people look at that and they look at you just holding it together and they just assume that you got this. They just assume that, okay, you know, man, he's he's got this all figured out. Yeah. Or or she, right? You know, you got this all figured out. Speaking to both for sure. But the reality is on internally, you are just in many days surviving. Yeah. Right. And the pressure of all that weight, like I I it it's visual because it feels like, you know, West, you know, it feels like you know, lifting weights. Like at some point, those muscles they get fatigued. That's it. You start trembling. Put the bad boys down.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Yeah, it's time to put it down, right? Fuck this workout. Let me get this. But you can't electro lights going. Yeah, but you can't do that. You can't do that here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

So I know you have a few stories, I'm sure, or you know, within kind of the framework of what we're talking about this week.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the biggest, you know, I think, you know, I I I the the story that I that I kind of feel that that resonated with this was probably just at about a year after, you know, uh my late wife passed away. And you know, like I I thought I was doing all the things, I'm thinking I'm checking all the boxes. It's it's stressful. You feel like I felt like I had the routine going. Yeah, you know, I'm carrying everything, right, and and dealing with the day-to-day. And you know, I decide I'm gonna go take a weekend, take a couple days by my like an overnight by myself, and go go out and just hang out with some friends and like the story so far. You know, so I took a trip from Austin to San Antonio. Okay, you know, I think I went to see a comedy show, booked the hotel, and I'm like, all right, this is gonna work out. Yeah. And man, like, and and mind you, like it was the one time that I was like, I'm gonna take some time for myself, I'm gonna take some time and really just be okay. I call family in, hey, and you watch the kids overnight. Cool. 11 o'clock at night, I get the phone call. You know, oh, we gotta rush, rush Jackie to the ER. Oh man. You know, I won't go into the details, but ended up, you know, having to go, you know, to to ER. But it's an hour drive, and I'm just like, and we talked a little about the the the stress, the anxiousness that you feel feel when you get those emergency calls. So talked about the passings. We talked we talked about that a little bit, but what we didn't talk about was the heavy weight that you feel every day. And in that point, in that day, I remember just like my my sh I I get personally, I get tension. When I feel tension and stress, it's it's in the back of my head, right? Like it's whatever's there, it tightens and the back of my neck, the back of my head just starts hurting, and it feels tense. And I mean, I was just like driving, and I just remember like, man, I'm like, I am fatigued, I'm exhausted. I am like barely holding it together. And that was one of those times for me that it was just like, you know, not yet. I need to call my family, need to call my friends, I need to call my therapist, need to check in with with whoever, because I I need this is this is heavy, this is hard to carry every day. Yeah, you know, that was that was the one time for me, one that that I recall in the earlier phase, and and it's not that there was any shortage of it afterwards, but that was the one that resonated with me with the most. That one, it's heavy, it's a heavy weight, but just when you think you got it, there's gonna be another another boulder that's gonna come. And sometimes you do have to acknowledge that this is a lot to carry, and you can't do it all by yourself.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

And and and that's the kind of state you have to stay in, really. Yeah, it's again living in the valley looking up at the peaks. Right. That's how it is. Yeah. So there'll be moments of joy, but then something else is gonna come that you're gonna have to deal with. So, yeah, so you talk about that that pressure, yeah. That and and just kind of monitoring and navigating through it, really, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:16

Yeah, and and and that was, I mean, it's it's it's you you you have no choice but to survive it. You have no choice but to carry the weight. You've gotta get through it. And it's the important part of like real, I mean, I think what people don't realize is not just the stress of those experiences, the stress of the everyday, but the stress of the burden and the weight itself. Yeah, that's the burden, the stress in and of itself is weight. Yeah, right. Forget the everyday what you're actually doing. But the worry and the stress that, oh shit, what if something happens? That's weight. That's another 10 pounds. Yeah, right. Like, and and forget the emergencies, forget the the actual, you know, workout itself.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Yeah, you know, it's that stone that's always kind of it's you know it's it feels the weight on your chest. Yeah, and it's just knowing it's there and let me work through this. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

I know I know you got some good ones. We've had some conversations. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

I mean, it it as you said, that it keeps coming. Yeah, and I just remember just recently that my youngest, no, oldest actually, because stories are a little similar, that everybody's in bed and we had a big day. My oldest had a surgery, and here she comes into my room at 2 30 in the morning now, not PM. When you say 2 30, yeah, usually that means that early.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

Otherwise, you just call it the afternoon.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

That's right. Right. Exactly. So she dad, I threw up. Okay. I I didn't make it to the bathroom. I said, all right. And I may have said, because I'm hardly awake. I'm more asleep than anything. I I didn't say bad words, but it was but it was oh man, basically, god damn it!

SPEAKER_03 9:15

Basically, and so at this point, I'm a pro at cleaning throw-up. Oh yeah. Okay, we have m well listen, we our journey, I mean, like, I'ma just be candid, like chemo and all the after-effects of that. You you you you become pro. Forget what we may or who we may or may not have supported while we were in college. No, you know, after parties. That's right. But yeah, even as yeah, going through this.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Blood though, it doesn't matter to this at this point. See it all. See it all. So yeah, I have a good solution I put together. Just get that water, little vinegar, get the rubber gloves if you have some non-latex, or you keep them.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

My 99 on it online. I'm not gonna give no shout-ups.

unknown 10:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

But you can get them. You can get them. Whatever. I mean, you know, you can get those these things, and you know, get a little water, get a little bit of vinegar going, and essential oils, lavender, lemon, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

Yeah, but you put first you put the powder out. And the lavender in them is necessary because it's calming.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Not only that, but it erases and cancels out that smell from throw hopefully. Yeah, and you put, I always get confused, soda or powder. I think it's soda, where you lay it all out and it soaks everything up, it up with the paper towels, clean it up and whatever. And all the while, the second time I as I'm doing it and cleaning up and letting it soak up, is like, yeah, y'all. And I'm looking at my yeah, y'all gotta learn how to do this because you know, when you're on your own or in college and you gotta know how to do all this kind of stuff. Calm voice is that because you have to. You can't, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

Like you, you, you, you take a few of those deep breaths.

unknown 10:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:57

Let me get in there. Stern face, yeah, tighten that jaw up so you know, you know, and and you just yeah, yeah. But that but that's the weight. That's like the weight is tensing up in that moment and saying and realizing you can't release all this pressure, frustration, sh you know, all all the all the all that builds up. All that builds up, right? It's like, you know, when you when you in a gym, they don't want you, even though you go to the gym and you hear people yelling and ah yeah, they don't want you doing that. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

So when you get that weight and you like you just breathe through it. You got to because you're expending too much energy doing all that other. So I'm cleaning it all up and then, you know, start a wash, the what was affected, that projectiles had hit, and and you just you just then go back to bed, and then we I had to take her to surgery hours later in the hospital, and then come back for work, and then the other had up uh I guess uh events she had to go to, she had to concert, so I'm cooking food for her, and that's just how it is. Yeah, so so it is that sense of you have to be strong because you have to get through this so that you can then take your your break, whatever that break is. And so that emotionally you you may feel depleted in these situations because there was somebody else who was helping you with that, and it's on you, right? So go so you can't be strong all the time. Okay, well then you take a little break a little later, maybe I sleep a little later the next day or whatever, because you you are depleted, and it's just these moments that you're always carrying this emotional load because it's having to do all this in this situation, but then you have to know that okay, there's gonna be a point where I'm going to have to let down so I can recharge. So it it it's fine. It's that learning that you know, this exhaustion that it eventually catches up, but it but it should not be ignored.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

Right, right. Yeah, and I and I think that's the important part, right? To recognize that although you're surviving through this, yep, doesn't mean necessarily that you're functioning. A lot of times we're an autopilot just trying to look the part, trying to play the part, right? And I think that's important, you know. So, you know, so I think let's you know, let's let's talk about these dude some of the themes around where we kind of draw this from, where this what some of this looks like, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Yeah, yeah. I mean I mean what what is what it really is is this sustained emotional weight. Yeah. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Yeah, and it's something that people like they see it on the outside, like I mentioned earlier, like people look on the outside, they're looking in and looking at you and like, man, Dave's got it together. But they're not seeing you the stress, the pressure that you feel, the the responsibility, the weight of the responsibility of holding all of this together. Yeah, nobody's seeing that.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yeah, and and and widowers in particular, men, yeah in in particular kind of society kind of sees it this way or that. We're always carrying a lot quietly.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, if the reality is, like, we're exhausted. Yep. Right. Many cases people are like, why is him so irritable? Like, why is he why are you snapping? Like, why is he feel you know, why do you why is oh he's not really talking to nobody. Yeah. Like they like you're holding all of this internally, and holding all of this this this stress, this pressure to be the strongest person in the room. Yep. Like, and think about it, we've we've done it through our late wives battle. Yeah. Right. For for a year, two years, three years, four years for some people, if not more. Yep. Right. Regardless of how many times, you know, from you know, we talk about, you know, from from the different waves, the different phases, from remission, and then it's back. Like you've done it for so long. And now now you're by yourself, taking care of children in some cases, and you're doing it again, right? Just holding it all together. Like that's a lot of pressure for people. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Um, and and and I think that's that's the challenge.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yeah, and just you're kind of talking about that exhaustion. Yeah. You know, this this sense of irritability that may come up that you have to kind of kind of manage. Yeah. And also maybe there is probably a sense of withdrawal that's kind of happening at that time. Right. You just feel like you can never really fully relax.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, and I think, you know, like some places, you know, some of us don't sleep. Yeah. I used to think it was a I mean, I used to do my, I remember the first part, like I'd be up all night, yeah, watching TV, thinking, uh, I just have all this energy. I don't feel like I'm tired.

unknown 16:07

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

Right. And then at some point in time, I'm realizing during the daytime, I'm like barely holding myself together. And I'm like you said, I'm irritable, I can't focus, can't concentrate. And this stuff is presenting itself, and you know, I'm losing my patience with people. Right. So, I mean, I that that that's that's like those are the the parts where it's really rough, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yeah, you know, certainly when you're talking about staying up and watching whatever show and whatever, that concentrations that's it, it's gonna dip. Oh, yeah. You know, that next day. So it it it really is from that lack of sleep, that that short temper and that patience that you start to lose. I mean, it's gonna it's gonna really disrupt everything and make it very difficult for concentrating the next day and moving through that and making decisions, whether it has to do with your household or at the job, sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

So like basically still thinking it because it's always in that background for you.

SPEAKER_03 17:10

Right. Yeah. Right. Um, and then like other the other part is like, you know, we think about we always talk about like staying active and staying healthy. And when you feel like you're carrying everything all the time, you eventually start, you may feel like you don't you lose interest in those things, right? Like they don't feel like you the you barely got enough energy to hold yourself up, hold the kids up day after day, all the decisions, and then I'm gonna go out for go out for a run. Yeah. Right? Or I'm gonna go to the go to happy hour. With like nah, but I'm gonna stay home.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

It's too much, man. It's too much on stage almost.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

It's and and I'm not saying that's healthy. Like this is not like hey, it's it's okay to like you gotta, you know, that's the part where it's like, you know, how do you how do you you gotta get to a point where you recognize these things?

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Yeah, yeah. It it that withdrawal from friends and family, that's where it shows up. Right. That that that this this sense of the the fatigue of being strong all the time.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

So yeah, that that that you can identify it there. Yeah. Any like any did you go through or have you gone through any like physical like aspects of it? I mean, I talked about earlier, like you know, me feeling like the tension in the back of my head or in the back of my neck, and like recognizing I at one point I went to the doctor, like, I think I have a tumor. Yeah, right. I'm hypersensitive to it already because my my my late wife just passed. So I remember going to the doctor, like, I got this tension in the back of my head, I think I have a tumor. He's no, that's stress. Yeah, right. So any any things for you that you experience?

SPEAKER_00 18:45

I I think that hypersensitivity to any of the things that may just happen at this age anyway. Yeah, and so you start to think, oh, is it is it this? And there was one episode, man, when I called you one time.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

And I thought just resent? Yeah, I thought I was having a stroke. Yeah, remember that? Yeah, and I called you, hey man, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 19:08

And brothers don't call each other. Like, hold on, let me take some tussing. That's right, yeah. Let me just take a profan and uh call it a day.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

But but yeah, I mean, so I I haven't had that, I've had a scare that I thought it was the buildup. Yeah. And I think when you know you took me to the emergency room. Well, actually we went to the urgent care instead because we realized after diagnosis, yeah, self-diagnosis that it was GPT and Google. Yes, yes, that it wasn't it wasn't exactly a stroke. But so I it and also because remember when you took me to urgent care, I did the drop-off at Kara School for my younger for some permission slip and some money that you needed for exactly and there's it went to urgent care. Do you remember that? And so come to find out, I'd never had an inner ear infection. Oh, yeah. And that's what it was. And so my balance and equilibrium was all off and the room was throbbing and all these other things. Yeah, and come to know it was that. So I haven't I haven't felt it. Maybe I didn't understand that what I was feeling was actually the the the weight and and the fatigue that comes from being strong. Maybe I just pushed through it and what didn't identify it. Yeah. But as you said, and men and women, maybe be more in tune with your body so you don't miss those things because maybe it does lead to something greater. So maybe that's my fault that I'm not well.

SPEAKER_03 20:45

I mean, I think I I I think it's important. I think to your point, like you know what your baseline is so that you could probably recognize, and it's you know, we you know, I I think that's a starting point. I think being able to know, okay, well, I don't usually have this pain, or I don't usually feel this grogginess or this disorientation. You know, the minute you start, like it's okay to be like, hold on, let me check in, maybe this is something, because it might be something that's true, right? Like your body starts breaking down with stress over time, and and that's that's the real. So I think this just leads into like you know, areas that it surprises, like when you try to hold all of this together, when you try to carry all this weight, where is there or has there been anything that's surprised you in particular, like through this yeah, I mean I I think it's what starts to surprise you is really that how long you can kind of operate on these emotional fumes that that we've had to that's persisted and it's kind of carried us through, or how overwhelming it can be and it kind of can stop you in in your drags. Or like you like you just until your body or your your or your mind in some cases tells you you're done.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Yeah. So what surprised me, I think, is and what I didn't really expect about this idea of uh uh not wanting to be strong all the time and that fatigue that sends in is it it again there's emotional exhaustion that can mimic depression or anxiety and physical illness. And so it's important I think to determine okay which one of these is this? Yeah. And and addressing it maybe. But I'm surprised that it it shows up in these different forms. It's hard to sift it out and understand.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

Yeah and and this is like this is kind of agnostic of our experiences. This is more symbolic of anybody carrying yeah who feels like they're carrying the weight right like carrying that level of pressure whether you're carrying financial pressure for your own bills or financial pressure for your family or marital challenges that you're having or you've got a kid who's going through a tough time or having their health like all these things just present themselves and it's like to your point you you are walking around we are walking around carrying all this weight that we don't talk about at one time. Right? Yeah um I think another one like we we we talk about it right like functioning this long functioning and operating for so long with with when you at this level and you never bring yourself down to actually chill and relax right and decompress or never talk to somebody who can release I think you know yeah it was like the body keeps score right like it it does right like you know I remember like going to the gym I was going working out like a couple years ago and started getting pains in my shoulders and you know my doctors yeah I'm going to my doctors and he's like you got weightlifters weightlifters uh shoulder and I'm like what's that I don't did you just make that up doc like I'm like weightlifters I never heard of it oh yeah it's a thing we have you over you know lift too much weight and so you can't do push-ups I was like can't do push-ups like yeah everybody does pushups you're telling me I can't do pushups but the whole premise of like at at this age my doctor's like you don't need to be working out as much as you're doing you don't need to be lifting up lifting as much weight as you're lifting like we have to think about that just in the context of the burdens that we carry one we don't have to lift this much weight by ourselves yeah right we don't have to lift this much weight all this time and I think we have to think about that as well and like and that was something that surprised me as well was like I had this goal particularly earlier on in my my grief journey and my single parenting journey and even after I got remarried um I gotta carry it all by myself. It's my burden yeah right and right the reason we have family and the reason we have friends is because sometimes we need help lifting things. Yeah that was the surprise for me right the surprise for me was everybody's outside looking at me like I got it. And I'm thinking in my head like well this is mine to carry but the minute I opened up and started telling people and particularly my wife like she started recognizing like I'm getting snapped and I'm snappy I'm short she's seeing the exhaustion the minute I started opening up and saying okay you could take this or I hey look I you know let me call and release this. Yeah like people were like oh I thought you had it all right so in some cases the surprise is how willing people are to help the other surprise for me was realizing how many people just didn't know. Right? Like there's a part of you is just like man I'm doing this all by myself nobody's offering for help. You don't ask for help that's the number one problem.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

But the two is that's perception is meant. The other part is people are looking at you like man he's got it all together.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

That's a surprise for me because I don't feel like I have it all together.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

And say again about the body keep score then.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

So kind of what were those elements that the what were those markers really with you know like the you you're getting head headaches and the the the digestion's all weird because you're carrying stress or like getting sick more than usual. Yeah like random colds I remember just feeling like every three four months I'm getting like a cold that got me out for a week. Wow and that's my body saying I've had enough you're doing too much. Yep right like that that stuff is real and I think that one is like you know in and we talked about the brain fog forgetting things you know my wife jokes all the time like you know you you're 50 something might want to take that take that memory test start doing Sudoku help you right but I I also know now the less stress I carry the more things I try to like off outsource. Yeah I'm I'm remembering my words more I don't forget as much yeah right like that's it's real.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Yeah so that the that's the body telling you set up there. Yeah I I think also what surprises me or one is this sense of productivity really hiding this unresolved grief. Oh yeah how often have we heard this story of men and women going deeper into well yeah I can't do that right now because I need to do this presentation or I I need to do this project for the children or I'm planning the this party for somebody else and what have you or they go deeper into well I one dude I know uh ski instructors just went deeper into well I just don't have any time I'm on the hill all the time so I just don't have time to think about the trauma that he was dealing with.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

Right exactly yeah you don't you don't everything becomes a priority over the things that need to be a priority. That's right. Right your health right your self-care. Yep right like everything else important and then and then even the things that you need to do that just take longer because you can't concentrate yeah right like you're you're you're you're essentially starting to burn yourself out.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

And and so what so funny Jamal is when we were younger we would always hear from the elders well health is wealth.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Boy don't we know that yeah oh my gosh yep yeah yeah I mean I think this the reality is like when you start going through this and you start feeling the strain right like it's not like you know I joked around like the muscle fatigue. Yeah you know when you're in the gym and you are you're working out and you're doing supersets that muscle fatigue comes quickly quickly. Yeah right you know you hit that fifth step fifth set you you know you're not taking the 30 second break like that you're gonna feel that muscle fatigue quicker right with this level of stress and this weight it it disguises itself because you could carry it for so long and that's the that's the part that I think is a surprise to people because then it feels like it comes out of nowhere. No it's been building up that's right it's been there.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

It just reached the top so which which I this is so true. What surprises you is even strong support systems don't eliminate the need uh for intentional recovery.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

Yeah yeah you it it it it's necessary uh a a machine a system is going to break down yeah if there isn't uh uh maintenance to it yeah there's just no question about it even the strongest uh optic you see it in front of you uh the internally the inner workings yeah the there they're there in recovery that isn't even a break a respite you know yeah I mean it's it's it's you you you almost picture yourself you know as you know when you say going through this and carrying this burden carrying the the burdens after it it's not just holding up the ball it's like you know picture the atlas with the with the world on his shoulders like you're not just you know you no one thinks about that image you always see that image as a still image but the reality is you're walking with that world on your shoulder yeah totally different workout right totally different level of stress yeah when you're trying to move with the with all of that stuff move through your day move through breakfast through lunch through dinner through your job through the kids' school dynamics through all these other elements of life that's right you're this is not just a still shot this is you carrying all of this stress through every moment of your life and then it's the repeat of that and getting that strength to let me go do this again and again you you are going to be exhausted after this yes yes like that is the normal you're going to find an exhaustion point and it's important to recognize that before it becomes a crash point. Yeah right there it is so um I know for me like where I personally struggled was asking for help. I still struggle yeah right there's a part of me that still even now I'm ready I did it all before and and as a part of me even I'm I'm remarried and my wife and I deal with this Jordan and now we deal with this now where she's like you don't ask for help there's a part of me that still feels with feels like the grief process and the loss process wasn't wasn't her burden. It's yours almost alone still mine almost alone it's not fair to her because I don't let her it it prevents me from allowing her to be present to help me to be present to help the kids and that's something I have to constantly remember like this is not mine alone. Yes it's also me saying like and and through that I think that's something that I've learned to have to be okay saying I've got to go and ask for help whether it's Jordan whether it's a friend whether it's my family whether it's the extended family like being able to do that early in it was it was it was even harder right again people are looking at you like oh he's got it all together. And then there's a part of me that's just like I got this I could carry this by myself like it's it's it's it's you know full fool's pride in a way yeah uh the the the the choreography of it all it's it's on you yours you're the head choreographer yes this is my show yeah this is my show I got it right exactly I'm on stage you know you guys sit in the audience and yeah and watch this all fall apart right I'll do the solos or whatever yeah exactly what where I struggle is it and you had really just said it is this admitting how overwhelmed after operating months and months on your own in survival mode it this is something different now especially when you enter into another union with your now wife Jordan you're out of survival mode wow right this is coming together to thrive together to build more memories based on the present and not the past. I think I think when you think about it like it's two things. It's the one I talked about which is not asking for help. Yeah. And then it's the one that you just talked about which is not saying I'm tired and not admitting weakness or not admitting that there are times that you don't feel strong enough. Like there's the two things that's just like we as men in particular feel so we we struggle so much with exhibiting weakness and admitting you know that we're not always as strong as we try to present.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

And not necessarily weakness but it's more vulnerability.

SPEAKER_03 33:37

Yeah yeah maybe yeah weakness is the wrong way to think about it yeah it's it's hard to maintain a constant and uh uh even veneer and facade I mean no it's you it can't be done without rest do you ever feel like uh uh I know another one for me was never feeling like I can actually take a break and sit down and do something for myself yeah watch a show feeling guilty about it almost yeah yeah like that but there's times in my daughter even Zio you know she you know she knows I'm a Nick fan yeah and or whatever she'd be like Dad are you gonna there's a Nick game on today you gonna watch the game oh no I don't I don't have time she's like you dad you need a break you need I'm like no I gotta I gotta I have I have stuff to do what yeah like if the game comes on after dinner right like yeah no no I I still need to be doing something to to maintain your man card or something yeah I don't want anybody to know that to superman strength or whatever there's so much to do I have to constantly be doing it yeah yeah that I I I I've I've realized you have to sit in that and enjoy that do I you really do I I guess I can enjoy it now more for sure I can say enjoy but it really is a period just let me turn on this mindless whatever or it's something into ooh I like this nature special because I really do like nature and those yeah and the the whales and the ocean life and sea life I love all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Yeah so that's oh that's peaceful too and I'm learning something right and that's cool.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

Yeah I like the mindless stuff I don't do the housewives of whatever like some of my other dudes do like I'm not a housewives guy yeah you don't do all that but anyway but I do watch good trash as my friend says there are certain shows that yeah it's all junk food one is in and out burger and the other one is McDonald's and that's that's the designation of oh I like that you know what it is exactly anyway yeah yeah um yeah I mean I think the other one is like the making the decisions the mental fatigue the emotional numbness I think we all like I know I dealt with some of those things of like just you know kids are like dad I need $10 because there's a trip tomorrow my God like that felt like it's like in the moment where you thought you had enough that day you'd be like $10 yeah you ain't got no job right like in that moment it's it's easy it's ten dollars yeah you go like here's the ten dollars but when you're already at the fragile point right like you're already you're the camel waiting for the that last straw right like that ten dollars is huge right like what you talk about is you know staying patient with your children yeah when when when the emotional reserves they're gone man they depleted yes you know yeah no it's funny like and and again it doesn't go away because men are men like we we do this yeah whether we are single fathers widowers men unhappily married we do that we carry the burden you know Zaya asked me the other day my my 16 year old asked me the other day like oh dad um she came into my office and she's like dad uh hi she's smiling she's like hey dad hi and I'm like how much do you know exactly right yeah we know what and she's just like how do you know I was just like because you don't come into my office unless you want money right but no but there's a point where it's like even that it's just like oh I thought I had five minutes to and you don't you and you need those and you but you also need to recognize when you're carrying too much. Yes so that you're not unavailable to the people that that care about you that you care about. Yeah yeah um but yeah I mean I think there's so many we talked about like health the mood eating right is important sure you know eating right is important for your physical health as much as your your mental health. Yeah I think I I remember like looking up many times and realizing I didn't eat for half the day just because I'm doing everything else. Yeah. Right like you you you you lose the appetite to eat because you are so focused on like m just getting through the day and carrying everything else. I think those are like things you can't like forget.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

You know you've got to like not let those things consume you.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Yeah yeah for sure. And and I think kind of lastly about where I struggled is knowing when you need to talk and when you need to be quiet or when you need to talk to somebody else. That could be a therapist that could be somebody who has experienced what you all listening and watching us and what you and I have worked through all this time to be as whole as we can for ourselves for our the people around us and our children what have you so avail yourself of someone a professional or some people who've been through it with you. So I think that's where I struggled to a degree and you you you keep it all in and then that pressure builds and then that it etches away and eeks away at at your sense of strength.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

Yeah yeah it's it's it's it's true. You know and the the listen I think that all goes to I think talking about it leads into like the worst thing you can do or or is a byproduct of the worst thing you can do which is feel like you have to carry it all along. Yeah right I think being able to talk about it I think to me is like an entry point of having a conversation and telling somebody like yeah I am swamped I'm struggling I am like dragging my feet yeah I feel and maybe you're not maybe you just feel like I've got the weight of the world on my shoulders and I'm getting through every day and I'm doing it successfully but that's not helpful. Yeah right but even even being able to like get to a point where you're not can carrying it alone whether you're asking for help or just talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Because then you're pretending yeah and you're not really helping yourself or anyone making it look like you're fine right when you're not yeah so you know what makes it worse and and how I think it kind of has shown up you know for me and for some of the people that are listening and watching us is believing that strength means never showing vulnerability. Yeah. We already talked about that. Yeah it's just gonna make that worse right you're further back behind to move forwards.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Yeah. Yeah and I think you know I think you you there's always the pressure from everything outside in society that men should you know not complain or you know I hate the word when we say I'm not I don't want to complain you know people ask I I used to oh people how you doing I can't complain I can fucking complain right I can complain I'm tired I'm exhausted this is hard I'm doing this by myself and even if I'm not doing it by myself it's still hard like I can complain but we don't do it. Like we don't allow ourselves to not complain is the wrong way to frame it. We don't allow ourselves to say how we're feeling right and be vulnerable in that moment to let somebody know like man today was a tough day. Yeah today was a tough day I feel like I'm doing it by myself maybe I am doing it by myself but I don't feel like I have any help or I can't I don't know where to go to turn to or I can't find a minute to get a break.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Like that's all okay to say in the situations that is not and because some people just ask that because they that's just that's how you doing man exactly and they don't really hear you from right so then it's maybe where certain phrases they say it all especially if they know your story and maybe make them think again. So when people ask me something like that, hey man, I'm trying to make it look as good as it can with all things considered. Or you know doing the best we can all all things considered all things going on. And then it's oh maybe they'll think about my situation or realize he's got some stuff going on and let's leave it right there. Yeah you know exactly and so those catchphrases can help kind of lessen the sting of actually you know what's going on internally and it's hard to discuss and maybe it's not appropriate at that time and with that person and that's not the right person to talk about. Yeah. And those situations may exist yeah and those encounters may happen.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

Yeah you you know I think another thing too is like again we talked about it a little bit earlier is not sleeping. Yeah right like you know like you hear so much now about recovery and like now you hear like you know it's it's lack of sleep is tied to so many different things health wise but if you it it's it's literally the one minute where you actually can say I've had enough today I've eaten the good meal before I've eaten a good couple good meals today and kids are tucked in or they're in their room quietly fading off the I'm actually going to lay down and like like so many of us don't do that and don't take don't take that time to like go to sleep close your eyes you know just be okay not doing anything and being still like it's that's a critical part of like being able to get up the next morning and do it do it all again.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Because you have to muster the energy to do it again. Yeah I I'm sure many of you and we have been the situation you're laying in the bed it's a deep sigh. All right yeah all right let's go back at it again today so yeah the other item that can make it worse is overcommitting at work or other activities related to the house hold and doing and engaging those responsibilities as if that is gonna take away that distraction to take away the responsibilities.

SPEAKER_03 43:45

Yeah I think there's a part where you one it's it's overcommitting I think is also tied to not creating your boundaries. Yeah or understanding your boundaries and your and or what's your boundaries but also what is your With your tolerance. Yeah. Like listen, don't go to the gym and throw four plates. Don't start there. Don't throw do not throw four plates on that rack. No. Or on that bar if you can't get four plates up. Right. Like when you're taking on too more, too much, like you're gonna hurt yourself and you're gonna hurt other people, right? Emotionally, physically, and otherwise. And I think that's something where, like, yeah, you you you have to recognize your own boundaries. And I know for me, I got to a point where I had to understand what's my threshold. Right, like I got to a point even with my kids. All right, too many activities. You signed up for too many things. There's too many things on the kid on the school calendar that we had to show up to. Yeah. And this is too much for me. Like, it's it's even got to start there. And then when you you know, like some point in time, you got a real okay. I don't have the bandwidth for all this other stuff. Because who are you trying to what are you trying to prove? Yeah. Right? You know, we're not Superman.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I think the other what can make it worse is this lack of consistent support from people who truly understand. Yeah. It's that re-explaining and that's yeah, sapping away, yeah, siphoning away, I should say, your your sense of strength and getting back to that one.

SPEAKER_03 45:28

Yeah, I think you you in this experience I think you know one of the worst things you could do is surround yourself with the you know, people who aren't willing to allow you the space to communicate. Who or not or not, right? And then also, you know, like the people who it's there's times of people, you know, you man, I'm having a rough day. Man, you'll be alright. Like you just cut me off from right, and I'm not saying that that person doesn't mean well. They look at you and they say, my man's gonna be alright. Yeah, he's gonna be, but in that moment, like you didn't have time or you didn't have the opportunity to say, no, but I don't feel like it. Right, right. And I think that that's a hard it's not to say cut your friends off, it's not to say, hey, get people off. It's just knowing that you need people to bring people into your life or or or pull the people into your life more who are gonna let you be like, man, this is this this is heavy, this is hard, it's a lot. I need help. Like I need you to listen. And I need you to listen. Not give me advice. Right. Right. Because, you know, man, we always want to give advice. Yeah, here's what you're gonna do. Here's what you need to like, you know, like but I've I've I'm learning more, I still continue to learn, even though you know with you know my remarried, my wife sometimes should talk, and I'm I'm ready. I got the so I got the solution. I don't know what you should do. And there's times that I'm like and I'm like, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you gotta be okay listening. And then they might say, like, what do you think I should do? Right? That but yeah, we we we gotta be okay not solving a problem or not expecting somebody, you know, to solve the problem. But yeah, and I think that's the like it goes in like being okay to be the you know tap into that vulnerability, right? And and and knowing that that vulnerability and that ability to connect with the right people, ask people for help, know your own limits, yeah, like all of that is going to help with you know getting through this.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

Yeah, definitely. And what will help, yeah, just further on that is you've talked about it at length, is is is the therapist. Yeah. Even beyond the loss or whatever that trauma is, still tapping into as needed. And and and and when you self-analyze, diagnose, understand when it gets to be too much, going back to that. Even when we we talk about sports and music a lot, you know, there are certain people who might have the voice that's so recognizable to to many of us. Sometimes they have to go in and there are certain drills or certain care, having more of that tea, uh singing less. Right. Uh in sports, yeah, especially golf, which I'm not really a big golf guy, but I can understand, where this shot isn't isn't holding up for me. I need to go out there and swing it a little and do some exercise and what have you. It's the same thing going to a therapist. Oh, I thought you gave you have you gave me the tools, but I need a little bit more. I need a reset. Let me go speak to that person.

SPEAKER_03 48:50

Yep, yep. Yeah, and I think that's one we always talk about giving the thing a name. Yeah, for sure. Right. You know, your your therapist is gonna be like, what's the call? But like you, you already know what you're feeling. You may not be able to get, I feel tired. Oh man, I I'm I'm frustrated. Oh, that keep keep working on that name, right? You're you're getting exhausted. That's it, right? Like you're you're burning yourself out. Yep. And and you can't ignore it, right? I think that's that's gonna be a key one. Um and then be accepting it rest, like we talked about getting that sleep, that recovery, you know, connecting with the people who you can trust. No question. Um the things that aren't important.

SPEAKER_00 49:38

That's right. Reduce that. Get that out of there. You can't do it all. And just building this, and we will continue to talk about this, and we just mentioned before, but build those simple routines for sleep, for how you're moving around and keeping your body active, and also the quiet, yeah, and knowing when to be quiet. Build that, yeah, and that's going to replenish you when you feel fatigued from being so strong.

SPEAKER_03 50:05

Yeah. You know, I think it's it's allowing others to help with the responsibilities, especially when you're a single dad or single mom going through this. Your kids, they gotta become part of this, right? You they can't just have your kids sitting on the couch watching TV, swiping through the TikTok screen or wherever it is they're looking while you're running around crazy. Not only are you gonna feel like no, there's no help, you're gonna build resentment to maybe your kids, to maybe family members. Like you're gonna build resentment to people who you actually haven't even asked for help. So you gotta get other people involved with helping with some of the easy things that you need help with. Right. Yeah. Um key ones.

SPEAKER_00 50:51

Yeah, just the that last point of understanding that vulnerability strengthens this resilience after this moment that everything has been weakened. Yeah. And everything that that you know. So if you're listening and exhausted and just you're holding on to everything and uh keep trying to keep it together.

SPEAKER_03 51:17

Like we say, it doesn't this does not mean you're weak. You know, you you you you feel like you're trying to be strong for everybody, but this doesn't mean that you're getting weaker. Yeah, you've just been carrying this far too long all by yourself. Yeah, and and listen, like what if like what if the strength of this isn't you know about you carrying everything alone? Like, what if that's that's not what this is about?

SPEAKER_00 51:40

Yeah, yeah. What what what if real strength is is is truly knowing when to put something down?

SPEAKER_03 51:47

Yeah, yeah. Listen, that's listen. Uh when you in a gym, I always think about the people you see these videos of people in the gym and they lifting weights and they're on the bench press and they just they they struggling and it's it's toggling from one side to the other, and they quietly in their corner struggling. Yeah. And you know, eventually you gotta yell for help. Yeah, that's not weakness. You maxed out the you maxed out those muscles, man. That's knowing your strength. That's knowing your strength. That's knowing your strength. Right, that's knowing your strength.

SPEAKER_00 52:18

So so for me, just as as as I think of what I've kind of taken from this experience to this point, that the healing and realizing I didn't have to perform all this strength all the time.

SPEAKER_03 52:36

Yeah. Yeah. And then you know, even when you do that, realizing that you've got to rest. Yep. And you've got to put down the weights, you've got to take all the weight off your shoulder and give yourself time to recover because there's another day that's gonna be that's gonna be there for you to do some of this all over again.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

Allow that help from people in in the small ways, because those small ways definitely add up to something larger and gives you that kind of break that you need.

SPEAKER_03 53:08

Yeah, and listen, it's burnout is a human thing. Like everybody goes through burnout in some form or fashion. It makes doesn't make you weak, doesn't mean that you're not strong enough to carry this. It just means you're human and there's nobody on this planet who can do it all alone. Yeah, right. So, you know, with that, if you could take anything from this, like just hey, being tired, it it it doesn't mean you're failing. No, it it means you've been carrying some heavy stuff, grief, loss, stress, trauma, it's all heavy stuff, and you've been doing it for too long.

SPEAKER_00 53:47

And as you said earlier, sometimes it's that realization, hey man, I gotta put something this weight down. Yeah. Today's today's gonna be a light day. That's right. Let me get my stretches going. Let me get my mobility. That's it. That's it. So yeah. Hey, so we we really thank you for joining us again on Getting Back Up, Finding Life After Death.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

We appreciate you. Thank you. Yeah, subscribe, like, thumbs up, five stars, all the reviews.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

Send the comments, keep them coming. We love seeing those, and so we can do that that that show, that review show. Yeah, I like that comment show that we do. So, hey, thanks so much. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_03 54:31

Thank you for joining us on Getting Back Up, finding life after death. If something in today's episode spoke to you, pass it on because somebody out there needs to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

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SPEAKER_03 54:53

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SPEAKER_00 55:02

But getting back up is how we live. We'll see y'all next time.