Drew Taylor on Intercept 2-5

Any LEO I know will accept intervention dealing with mental health consumers.  Drew has studied and experienced this extensively and will continue to explain the points in the CJ system when his team can effectively get involved.

Every point of contact after arrest has potential for intervention.  If a mental health consumer gets help, the hope is that he or she stops committing crimes.  Then all of our lives are better.

-LEO

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Good morning. Welcome back, Drew.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Thanks, Chase. Good to be here again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Thank you for being here. Last time we got into correct my terminology as needed, intercept zero and intercept one. Zero being pre-arrest or pre-anything like that intervention. And then intercept one being the law enforcement intervention.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Yeah, that's first contact.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Or dispatcher. Or somebody some kind of first responder.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

First, yeah, that's exactly. Uh Intercept Zero's diversion, you know, and all those particular folks there. We talked about like co-responding models and our CIS program, our community intervention specialist. We talked about the importance of knowing and collaborating with our crisis intervention department. Do they come out? How do I use them as a patrol officer? A call to a mental health scene. One other thing that I would talk about because I believe it's a national model now, I'm pretty sure. It's what's called the hub model. Now, this really occurs at zero one, you know, and what the hub model is, so this came out of Canada. So the Canadian mounties or whoever the police are up there, they what they did was they within the police department, so there's a particular jurisdiction, and this police department, they they identify a champion that organizes all the mental health calls or human service calls uh for that month, and then they pull in human service providers and and and they assemble a team and they go over those particular calls for that month. And that's a monthly meeting called the hub meeting, like the hub of the hubcap. It's the centerpiece of whatever it is. And so we have two of those models operating in Lehigh County. The Upper McCungee Police Department has a hub meeting, and the Emmaus, you know, police department, we do two of those hub meetings. The other police departments that would be 12 other ones, and some are very small, they have not developed their their hub model yet. So if if there's officers that are listening to this podcast, and uh you can Google and and really kind of research a hub model. Our first one in Pennsylvania was in Allegheny County, and it was in Abington, which is Montgomery County. So, and now we have one in Lehigh County. So it's another interesting zero intercept zero, one kind of model, but it's within the opening of communication.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

That's great. I'll I'll tell you a quick story if that's all right, where that that would have been helpful and it would have kept us from putting a felony arrest on what was probably a mental health consumer. That's what they call them in South Georgia. Um I was a new sergeant, so I was supervising the shift. I had never supervised on a police department before. I didn't know any of these officers really. I'd met a couple of them. There were like 26 officers on the shift, and I'd been off doing other things completely off the beaten path, having a beard, you know, doing that kind of work. So when I came back, you know, I was kind of scared because I was like, I don't know shit about patrol. I haven't done this in a pretty long time. I've been kicking doors and buying dope and all this stupid stuff, and now I gotta like do real police work again. Put on a uniform. So I get back and like the first week I'm there, there's all these calls going out to this one house. And it's just it's clearly regular. And so we come in for a shift, and the offer I asked one of the officers, I'm like, y'all are always going to like Oak Drive or whatever. Like, what's going on in Oak Drive? Why are y'all always over there on a signal 49 mental health call? And they said, Oh, yeah, this lady's crazy. She messes with her neighbor, and she knows the lines of where to stop to not be arrestable. And she just denies what went on, but she's she's a whack job. And I was like, okay, so I hear the call come out that night. I'm like, four alpha one, I'm gonna take, put me on that call. So I drive over there, and so what this lady had done is she saw her neighbor outside, and she went outside with a trench coat on, and she was this is what the neighbor reported. She said, Yeah, she came out and stood in front of my house in the street with a trench coat on, and she was reaching under her under the trench coat and looked like she was clutching a gun, and she was smiling at me, just being a weirdo. And so I went to talk to the lady who had done it. And I think what they were usually doing was just kind of scolding her. She probably needed some pretty serious mental health intervention. So I went over and I've been doing, I would, I was very into interviews at this point. And my thought is how do I get this problem to stop? Like my cops are over here almost every night. They need to be doing police work. Not, we're not like a personal service thing for this, you know, consumer. Exactly. I went in and the lady was being nice. She was playing the game. She said, Oh, how you doing? Do you want a drink? I said, Yeah, I'll take a drink. So I went and sat down with her. One of the officers was in the room with me. It was like this little sunroom thing. And they're probably thinking, like, what is my new sergeant doing? Why is he like having a conversation that has nothing to do with this call? And I'm just talking, we're just cutting up this building rapport. And then I said something like, and again, my thought was, I think this lady just committed a felony in Georgia. It's called terroristic threats. It's basically threatening somebody with a gun. And I want to expose that. I don't want her to just say I didn't do that or there was a misunderstanding. So I talked to her for probably 15 minutes. I'm drinking water, we're talking about the flowers. And then I said, Hey, I heard you kind of kind of a conspiratorial tone. I heard you kind of got the neighbor. And he kind of smiled at her. And she goes, Oh, you should have seen it. And I'm like, I'm like, tell me, I love this. And she goes, Oh, and she describes exactly what the neighbor describes. She goes, Oh, I don't even own a gun, but I put on my trench coat and I just love messing with her. And I just, she, I remember she said it just like this. She goes, I was reaching underneath, you know, like I had a gun. And I'm like, oh my God. So she just goes all the way down it. And then the officer who's sitting there, I say, Hey, we're arresting her terroristic threats. She was intentionally acting like she had a gun to be threatening. And that would have been a good sequence one intervention. I'm sure my terminology is a little off, but that probably would have been better and weeks ago, you know, prior to the neighbor being victimized 10 times.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

So yeah, I love your detective work. That's that's questioning, and that that's awesome. That's fun. It's an awesome picture. Yeah. So, okay, so this is a really excellent segue into what I want to talk about in terms of Lehigh County's, you know, version of stuff. And I hope this is this is going to be, I hope this is super helpful to the listeners in regards to what I'm about to explain. So intercept zero is kind of diversion. Now your your subject is is charged, you know, terroristic threats. So take it into custody, down to central booking, however, you know, whatever your process is. What I do, what we do in CIT training is we absolutely emphasize that this is not all about not charging people. This is it's you, it's enhancing your your decision making and and knowing that you have a human service partner that you can hand off the baton to. So you're doing the excellent police work. Absolutely charge that person when it's your professional discretion. And so off that person goes to jail. All right. So here in Lehigh County, we have what's called team Mesa. Team Mesa. M-I-S-A, it's some term that used to be called for co-occurring, co-occurring drug and alcohol mental health problems that occur co-occurring, it used to be called MISA, mental illness substance abuse. So our team Mesa was it started in 2005. Uh-huh. And what it is was all again, the partners came together. Now the person's been charged. So this is where it's it picks up an intercept one and ends at intercept three. Intercept three, sentencing. So in this team Mesa, it is an interdisciplinary team of all of us. Remember, I described the hub, the hub model. That same that group meets every week. So if an officer on this, you know, listening wants to start their hub meeting, you would ask certain human service representatives to be at your department to go over your human service things. What we do in Lehigh County is once that person's charged, and anybody can refer this person to our team Mesa list, that person that you just took into custody, that person would be referred to Team Mesa. So they go into jail, they're held over for their next hearing, but every Wednesday we meet as a group and go over these cases. So now here's what's the difference. It's not just an interdisciplinary team. So who attends Team Mesa? Me from forensics, the jail administration, the jail case manager, the jail mental health provider. So those, they all there. So we can get real time what's going on with the person. Are they taking meds? What's their symptoms? Blah, blah, blah. And then uh we have pretrial services. Do you know what pretrial is? Yes. Pre-trial is an excellent partner, by the way. So they interview, right? They interview all the people that have just been charged, and they get a sense of what their mental health is. So that's an excellent partner, and they sit in TNISA, drug and alcohol, crisis intervention, one of the CISs. We have other mental health uh people there. Uh, we intellectual disability. So we assemble this interdisciplinary group, right, to review all those people. So, what's her name that you just uh arrested? She's gonna we're gonna talk about her. I get I look up in my mental health system and I'm like, oh my gosh, she had the these particular crisis calls. Oh, did you know that she was 302'd? I don't know what it is in in Georgia, in Pennsylvania, 302 refers to the uh Pennsylvania Mental Health Procedures Act. And under a 302, that's the involuntary commitment part of it. Okay. So I can look her up in the system and I can say, oh my gosh, she was in the hospital, blah, blah, blah. So I bring all that uh intel to discuss what her case is. Here's what the kicker is, though. In our team Mesa, so what I just described is just an interdisciplinary team, but with this is the kicker. The who chairs that team Misa is the first assistant in the district attorney's office. So Steve chairs that and we have public defender representation there. So we it's not we can just do the clinical information, you know, community safety information, but we now we have two people that can really kind of work out charges, charging decisions, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Yeah, and they're hearing it for they're not just getting told it right as they walk up, like, hey, this this lady's mental health. They deeply understand, hey, there have been 52 calls for service in the last month at her house for mental health. You're not faking that.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Right, exactly. And so so that and Steve from the DA's office, he's a champion. He's like, you know, it's been so interesting to watch over the years his transformation from like prosecutor to now like he he understands it, like he's educated.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Less hard nosed, more let's examine the individual problem and see what needs to happen kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Yes, it's just it's phenomenal. So now that's a different model. So maybe some of the listeners are saying, okay, well, in our jurisdiction, our county, we have mental health court. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

And and mental health court's something different. Now we're talking about the judge and the black robe effect. And and how many people can you get through your mental health court in a week, in a month? It's gonna be a limited amount. We go over 45 people every every week in our team Misa. We move, we we move through and we're like, okay, here's what here's the here's the plan for this person, here's the plan for that. And again, it's not all about diversion. It that's a big part of it under the right cases, but some of our cases we'll send to state prison. You know, that it just depends on the circumstances. Gotcha. So so it's not all like social work tree hugging stuff.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Yeah, the the hippie stuff that people complain about. Like they're just they're just trying to get off this.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

You know, and I hope that I'm not offending anybody in Oregon when I say this, but that would be the Cahoots model. When back to intercept zero and one, when you study what that co-responding model, the argument that your friend made in terms of uh you should why send out police when a social worker could the cahoots model does send out social workers. But what people don't understand about the cahoots model in Oregon, in terms of uh sending out a social worker instead of police, is they've been doing that for since the 60s. Like that that area is known. So they they pull it off and you know, good on them. Yeah, that's not our model. Gotcha. So anyway, so team Mesa, intercept one through three, super important. And I'm leaving some other key people out. There's some other people that attend that meeting that are super helpful, aging, the aging office, you know, because you're off your your patrol guys are called out to, you know, Aunt Mabel, who's suffering from depend dementia. How many, how many calls? So we get aging there and and children and youth. Children and youth is there as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

That's great. And just yeah, just getting them to understand their re like we would get it, you know. Aunt Mabel wandered off again, and she took off her. The one I'm thinking of was a guy, but he would take off his, I don't know if it's life alert or whatever, his little bracelet was that tracked him. Right. And he he had the presence of mind to know that he didn't like being confined to that house, but he didn't have the presence to know where the hell he was going. So we I didn't know the resource. I I knew he had some kind of management company, and that's who we turned to, and they'd just say, Oh yeah, he cut his bracelet again. And but it'd be nice to know like real long-term solutions. A lot of the stuff you're saying, and then I'll try to stop sidetracking you. It's and a lot of the stuff in law enforcement in general, it seems to take an initial upfront investment of time and resources, and then it saves you time and resources down the road.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

It does. And and again, partnering with our brothers and sisters in law enforcement, that this is our that's our case. Like, when should it be transferred? And that's the collaborative thing. And it all started uh for me, it all started with CIT training. Like that was the I just can't, you know, speak, you know, highly enough about that. Yeah. So that's Team Mesa, and you know, and still, you know, probably some of the listeners are saying, you know, okay, but I have a I have a common pleased judge that does what they, you know, he or she wants, right? I I we deal with that too. I have I have two judges that, you know, and God bless them, but you know, so that's just part of the system and and working again, you know, at intercept three in terms of the sentencing and doing that. So that is like uh, you know, that part of the sequential intercept model. So now the person's in jail and collaborating with the jail. I want to talk a little bit about that. What step is this? This is really it could be from if at Intercept One, if they're taken into custody, so they're now they're in jail.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

So now it's working with the jail. Now we have Team Mesa that's tracking that person up until sentencing. We work with the case managers in the jail. We work with what's called prime care. That's the the provider of mental health and human and health services in our Lehigh County jail. So that's an important partner in my world. Now, this is kind of out outside the scope of the police, so to speak, but this is what happens in terms of tracking this person through the system.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

And so super important. We work with well other prime care folks, that person that we talked about with schizophrenia before. Now we now the person's on meds. Now we hopefully get that person on injectables, right? Because we're talking about schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia, psychotic disorders. Best practice is uh a good anti anti-psychotic injectable. So in my world, that's what you know, that's what we now God bless those folks because we know that those injectables also you pay a price for having a sane mind. What do you pay the price with? Is side effects. And that's often what happens with our mental health folks is that they just can't take the side effects anymore. They stop their medication and and everything goes, you know, okay. Working with the person in jail. One of the things that we've also done in uh Lehigh County is is infused more mental health services in our jail. So now we did that through a class action suit. It was it, it was, it's, it's contained at Pennsylvania, but we did get some money that way to help our folks with mental with uh the mental health folks. Okay, so uh so then we're working with them. We have a team meeting, you know, plan, it's implemented. The judge, you know, says, no, this person's been, you know, you know, charged with this so much, they're gonna do some time in jail. Okay, your discretion, judge. And the person's in jail. We follow them then from intercept three to four, and that's the work in the jail and preparing for re-entry. And so, you know, I don't know if we have corrections officers listening to this or or or not, but that's where we do a lot of collaborative work with the jail for re-entry purposes. Nationally, what's the biggest problem? Housing. So, you know, that's a whole nother thing. But, you know, we're trying to work on that, but then we get that person ready to come back out. So now they're in intercept four, they are paroled or in intercept three, they may get probation, but they're now back out into the community. And so we hopefully have done a good re-entry plan. There's new resources that are coming about in the re-entry world, re-entry specialists. We have now we have a provider by the name of Haven House. Havenhouse, it's not a house, it's an outpatient treatment provider that has stepped up and provides us with intake spots for any person coming out of the jail.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Super great collaborative effort.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yeah, because that's, I mean, if you have a severe mental health condition, coming out of jail would probably be really hard. You finally have stability, you have a bed every night, you have your medication every day that the nurse makes you take, right? They call your name and you go take it. There's a simplicity to that. And then suddenly you're back out there where there's drugs, there's the person you don't like, there, your medication you have to go get, you know, that step in the process. I mean, we as people who have probably some kind of mental health condition, but it's not debilitating us, we might struggle with getting a prescription we need. Now imagine if you're a paranoid schizophrenic, it's almost unmanageable. So I'm sure that re-entry is often a catalyst for some kind of breakdown for those people.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

It it's such a good point. And it is, it's a very key part in the overall process, and and that's where the mental health world really has to be on their game. Because, you know, I'm gonna take a side thing and make my point here. When I was in two in 1990 from 88, 1988 up to 1996, let me spit it out. I was working with the state hospitals, our state hospitals to Help re-entry from the state hospitals because they were downsizing. Does Georgia have state hospitals?

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Uh, I don't know. I mean, I know we don't know. We had Memorial Regional One or Regional One's Memphis. We had Memorial is where all the indigent people went.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

But Okay. So in my world, long-term hospitalization is really important. Pennsylvania got out of the state hospital business. So those institutions no longer exist. We have state hospital beds, but in that time, I was helping people come out into the into our community. And so what was a key part of that transition was what's called act teams, assertive community treatment teams. These were mobile teams that surrounded that state hospital patient to bring them back into the community. So, right, Act Teams, where's Act? You know, Act Teams are great for our forensic people too, but it's a service that's dying on the vine today. It's not fundable. Providers don't want to do it anymore.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

It's just a lot of this stuff, I feel like it's hard to quantify. It's kind of like working, you know, for the cops that are working proactively against violent criminals. There's no way to record the murders that don't happen because of the because of the guns you took off the street, because of the gang members you caught.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Check it out.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

You can only quantify by guns and arrests, but you can't say, like, oh, we would have had 30 more murders this year if I didn't do that work. You just don't know. And I feel like that's kind of the same. It would be hard to quantify the mental health calls that didn't happen because of this interdiction.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Uh, it's such a great point because now data is super important. Like in my world, I'm like, I always said, and I knew data was important, but I I it's not it's a luxury. Like I'm doing, I'm one person doing this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

And I love it, but now you want me to, you know, not just collect the data, but interpret it. So we got some, to your point, we got some partners with some local colleges that Dr. Scott Hope from Cedar Crest College is my guy. And my boss contracts with him to help me with the data.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Does he so you guys call you guys give him raw data and he he creates a product about what's been done? Or can you break that down a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 24:37

I would love that, but what he does, he comes in, let's say Team Mesa. He he has come in and and spent time with our team Mesa, and then he he advises us here's how to collect the data and here's how to process it.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

He teaches us how to do it, not not he doesn't do it himself.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Gotcha. The reason I ask is here in Memphis, maybe five, seven years ago, there was, I mean, Memphis has been a crime hub, had crime issues for a really long time. And there was a college professor who created a list of like the top 10 most violent and prolific criminals. And I was at the Memphis gang unit at the time, and it it got disseminated to the off to the investigators, like it came from high, like, hey, we got to deal with these guys. Like these are the most violent. It was taken as fact. And we looked at it as the day-to-day gang unit guys, and we were like, these guys ain't nobody. These guys, you know, they might be mental health, so they've shot a bunch of people. They might have had some shootings, but these are not gang leaders. These are not prolific, violent criminals. And they were just way off kilt. So I'm not dragging the academics, but I am saying there was a separation. It should have been done in conjunction with law enforcement as opposed to completely independently and then hand it over. But I'm sorry he's not doing the work for you and putting that together. That sounds like it'd be it'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

I'm glad he's teaching you. It's cool. So to your point, agree. I'm very suspicious of outside folks. If you've never done a ride along, what's your opinion of police? Like, no, mm-mm.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Well, I watched a YouTube video, so I got some knowledge.

unknown 26:24

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Well, what Scott is is he and Dr. Carrie Baker, and those of you who are listening to this can Google Dr. Scott Hoke from Cedar Crest College, and what they will find, he started the Center for Community Policing and Um and Innovation. And I totally messed up his center name. But he does, he works with the police department in in so many different capacities, primarily like data collection and those kind of things. But he'll come in and he'll do an assessment, and then you know, his report will say, okay, if you're interested in your data, here's what here's what to do.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

And you kind of have to be because you have to have funding. And nobody's gonna approve funding if you don't have data. If you just say, Hey, I I like think we got a problem, and you know, I kind of want to do this thing, and I think I can fit. No, you gotta have data.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Uh you you really do. And for sure, especially with grants. I do not like money. I I I I got I wrote one grant. Uh, we have other members that do grant stuff.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Yeah, you gotta have those guys.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

It's it's an issue. I'm more interested in people, so that's my thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

But but much respect to the people that are good at it and know the system and can do it because they get stuff done.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Super necessary piece to that. So back to our sequential intercepts. So four re-entry work, you know, those kind of resources coming out, and then intercept five is is probation and parole. So in 1980, 988, in Lehigh County, probation parole, and mental health was fighting with each other. They're crazy, no, they're criminal. No, they're crazy, no, they're criminal, and people were falling through the cracks. So, what they did is they brought those two departments together, and it's a special pro it's a special unit called SPOR, S-P-O-R-E, special program offering recovery and education. It used to be special program for offenders in rehabilitation and education, but we evolved the language, the offender, you know, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

But you didn't want to change the acronym, so you found the words to fit it. Is that right? Yeah. Not nice.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Oh, I'm I'm the acronym King. I'll tell and I'll tell you about two other things uh in a second here. But no, this that's where I I started our juvenile spore unit. Remember back in '96. That's how I got into the probation part. But we Lee County have been doing this. They've been partnering. So any person that has a serious mental illness, intellectual disability that is on probation or parole is referred to the spore unit. And there's there's two teams. There's a PO and a case manager that work intensely with that individual to get them through uh to finish the the you know their probation and parole to successfully get out, yeah, keep them out of violation, keep them out of jail. Right. So that's what we have in Lehigh County, you know, you know, in in working with them. So it, you know, I'm definitely, I love spore, you know, obviously with the juvenile part of it, you know, I was 10 years in as a juvenile PO uh in that unit, loved my probation kids and families. You know, I I love I I really love the juvenile system. Adolescents are are great to work with.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

I I just you're speaking Greek to me, man. You couldn't pay me enough to begin into juvenile corrections. I like kids, I coach sports, I got a million kids myself, but uh trying to rehabilitate, I would just feel like I mean, early in my patrol career, I was a new patrol officer. I had a kid that I thought had a chance. He lived in a neighborhood with some pretty heavy gang activity. I thought I was reaching him. I would I got to know the mom a little bit. I think I dropped food off, or I'd buy him like some food and drop it off once or twice. He's skipping school all the time. He was like 13. And I thought I had made a difference. And he got killed when he was 16. And I just I imagine that if you work in juvenile rehabilitation, that's that's gotta be just a revolving door, right? I mean, you don't control their home environment and you be the influence you can, but I mean, it's gotta just be almost non-stop failure, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:04

I I I disagree, man. We had great success.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

You can't disagree, it's my show.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

No, go ahead, so we had great success, and we still do with our juvenile score unit. Now, now remember so I don't want to get too far into the weeds, but those of you who are listening that are that know juvenile justice, you know that that has made huge changes. Yeah. So when I was a a juvenile probation officer in '96, '97, I would get a file and it would be like, okay, go to school, don't get, you know, don't, you know, get charged with anything and stay off drugs and alcohol.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

Yeah.

unknown 31:45

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Now there's sophisticated tools, assessment tools that are done at the beginning. A case plan is divided, you know, that tool, the YLS and youth level of service, identifies criminogenic needs. The five criminogenic needs, there's usually one that stands out. You develop a case plan that speaks to that criminogenic need. You track the progress on that criminogenic need for that juvenile by motivational interviewing, you know, very sophisticated cognitive behavioral, you know, tools. And you, you know, march along super scripted now. Juvenile justice, juvenile probation, very scripted.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Good. I've been out of it for a while. I hope it's changed. But I've been on the federal side for some years, and so we don't really deal with juveniles unless it's very egregious.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Uh so yeah, and and those of you who are interested in this, what we were, you know, with juvenile probate with juvenile spore, we were progressing very well. But in 2008, nine, 10, right around that time, there was a corrupt judge in Lackawanna County. I always get mixed up, Lazerne or Lackawanna. And and it there's a documentary called Kids for Cash. Those of you who are interested that are listening, I mean the juvenile song, that was a major turning point. And that really kicked off. We were progressing, but it really kicked off a huge change in the juvenile justice system in uh in in Pennsylvania. Okay, that's a whole nother thing. So so here, you know, we talked about the sequential intercept model, went through all the points. There's a couple other things. I wanted to make mention of two things, and and this is to maybe some other folks that are listening to this. Uh that I created two committees and they're working groups, and this is where the acronyms come in. So, what is my fun? My fun is creating new acronyms that bug my boss. She's like, Drew, do not make another acronym. And I I do, and it I love that I bug him. So, anyway, he's awesome. Uh, Richard O'Roman is uh just a fabulous boss. Okay. So the I what I was seeing was that person that goes into jail. Police do a great job working with the person, but you know what? We need to charge them. They come into the jail, they're going through Team Mesa, but they can't leave because they don't have a re-entry plan. They're a mess in the jail, they're banging their heads, they're eating their feces, they are a mess, mental illness, terrible, awful, and nobody can do anything about it. And so they make their way through, and what do they do? They max out. Yes. Okay. So so what I put together was what's called the Forensic Familiar Faces Committee. And I assembled this group that literally sits at the back of the door and we try to get that person or track them through the community because they don't, they're homeless. Yeah. But those little collaboratives are super helpful.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

Yeah, it sounds like it. I'm sure the police would appreciate that person not just being dumped back in their society.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Yeah. Yeah. And the other one has to do with high utilizers in in our emergency rooms and partnering with our health networks.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

I love this. Is there a way if an officer or, you know, I'm sure there's like a hundred chiefs of police that are listeners, if they go, hey, this is what I need, can you give a quick answer to what is a good place for them to start? Whether it's contacting you or some organization of we need to develop something like this.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Absolutely contact me. Love to talk with you. My email address is S as and Stephen Drew D-R-E-W T-A-Y-L-O-R. S Drew Taylor at Lehigh County.org. Lehigh L-E-H-I-G-H, Lehigh County.org. S Drew Taylor at Lehigh County.org, or you can call me at 610-782-3583. 610-782-3583.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Man, thank you. That's super personal. Kind of risky. Hopefully they don't blow you up too bad, but I like it, man. I can you're all about helping people. You've dedicated your life to it, right? So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

And I I'm having I have a we I work with great people, great police, and you know, I'm not done yet.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

This was great. I really appreciate your time and you coming on and spreading the word.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Thanks, Chase. Thanks for doing this, and thanks for help helping all the brothers and sisters in law enforcement.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Thanks so much. Have a great day.