Hiring for Skills or Potential? The Answer Isn’t Simple

Join us as Matt Baxter, CEO of WedgeHR, shares his journey from a young entrepreneur to a leader in HR tech. Discover how storytelling, authenticity, and human connection are transforming the future of hiring and why hope and trust are more vital than ever in workforce innovation. 

 
Timestamps: 

00:00 - Introducing Matt Baxter and his journey from lawn care entrepreneur to HR innovator 

00:25 - The impact of technology on remote work and hiring practices 

01:17 - The importance of storytelling and human connection in recruitment 

02:44 - How Wedge HR helps organizations recruit high-volume, customer-facing roles 

04:42 - Hiring for potential vs. skills: what stage is your company in? 

05:49 - Practical tips for job seekers: identifying what makes you irreplaceable 

08:16 - The challenge of fake applications, AI bots, and sourcing quality talent 

11:30 - Creating cultures of transparency and hope in organizations 

16:06 - The power of networking and proactive outreach during job searches 

28:04 - The role of hope and trust in the future of work 

 
Connect with Matt Baxter:
Wedge HR 

LinkedIn 

Connect with Christy Honeycutt: 

LinkedIn 

 
Tune in for real conversations, fresh insights, and strategies that actually help you stay ahead. Follow now and start making your own strategic shift. 
 

Is your organization prepared for the Future of Work? Learn more: https://www.pepelwerk.com/build-my-future-workforce/ 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I'm joined by Matt Baxter, founder and CEO of Wedge HR. Matt's journey into entrepreneurship started early as a self-described chubby neighborhood kid who launched a lawn care business at 15. Between the ages of 15 and 21, he hired more than 25 people, grew the company to seven full-time employees, and sold the business while still a sophomore in college. Along the way, he made every mistake in the book and discovered the kind of impact entrepreneurship can truly have. That early experience taught Matt a powerful lesson. Hiring is hard, not because of resumes or technical skills, but because the real questions are human ones. Can you communicate? Are you motivated? Can I trust you with my customers? Those questions became the spark behind Wedge HR. With Wedge, Matt is tackling one of the hardest problems in human history, helping people get jobs. And more importantly, jobs they actually love. Matt believes in making hiring more efficient, more human, and more story-driven, giving candidates a chance to show who they are beyond a piece of paper and helping companies find the right people during some of the most challenging hiring climates we've ever seen. This episode is everything you never knew you needed to know about hiring humans. Let's jump in, shall we? People work is how to present Strategic Shift, a podcast dedicated to exploring the future of work. Thank you for joining us as we hear stories of bold decisions and workforce innovations. I'm Christy Honeycutt, and I'm your host. Matt, thank you so much for holding space for myself and the audience today. Where are you joining us from?

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Christy, I just want to start by saying you're the best. Thank you for having me. This is gonna be so fun. Um I am in uh balmy Grand Rapids, Michigan, where it's probably 10 degrees outside and probably a foot and a half of snow. So we're uh we're we're at home base in Grand Rapids, Michigan today.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

I am not a cold weather fan. I'm in Texas and it's too cold for me.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

So I'm staying, stay away from Michigan in February. Come back in July.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

I I'm um plotting trips to the tropics right now because it's too cold for me. Uh so I know that my introduction did not do you justice. I would love for you to introduce yourself to the audience and tell a little bit about uh what it is that you and and Wedge do.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yeah, thank you. Um so yeah, quick quick intro. I grew up in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Uh started my entrepreneurial journey uh when I was 15. And by that, I was the chubby neighbor kid that wanted to mow a few lawns, and a few lawns turned into probably some extra fast food money at the time, and then that kept growing. Um by the time I was a senior in high school, hired my first employee and went through the joys of what that looked like and kept growing that business uh through my first two years in college and got up to about seven or eight full-time employees and probably hired 50 people through the years. So I got my first taste for hiring and managing people uh pretty early on. I had the benefit, uh, definitely wasn't a big tech exit, but I had the benefit of selling lawn care company uh when I was 21 and wrapped up college over the next couple of years and just started hearing on both sides of the equation. I started talking to business owners and almost every business owner, and this was back in 2017, 2018, they almost all said the same thing like hiring sucks, finding people is really hard, resumes are terrible. And then the flip side, I had a lot of friends who were entering into the job market all say, like, man, I'm motivated, I'm hungry, I don't have a 4.0 from Stanford, but I'm willing to work and learn. How do I tell my story better in the application process? And so it felt like there was just this gap uh that existed. And like any, I think, good or bad entrepreneur, you have a naive dream that you can change the world overnight. And so we entered into this thing called HR Tech and launched a company called Wedge. Wedge is a video interviewing, specifically video screening platform. Uh fast forward to today, we're uh, you know, kind of fast-paced tech startup that's growing. Um, we've got about a thousand customers that really we help organizations around high volume, high turnover, customer-facing roles. Uh, it's been a blast. I've made every mistake times 10 in the books when it comes to fundraising and hiring and firing. And ironically, we're in the hiring space, and I've made plenty of mistakes myself in that. But yeah, it's been been a joy. And and one of the, I think one of the coolest parts about running a business is just the network you get to build along the way and the people that are rooting for you, and the people that you get to, you know, just spend time with just because you are an owner of a company. And uh one thing led to the next. Christy, that's how we met uh through a mutual connection Theo, which has been awesome. And so I've just had the had the benefit and pleasure of meeting a lot of great people in the in the overall job market world. So yeah, we're uh based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We got a couple employees in Chicago, but mainly our teams here and uh been traveling the world, uh trying to grow this thing over the last, you know, quite a few years now, which has been a blast. So yeah, that's a little background on me.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Oh, I love the storytelling that you just did. So you've been an entrepreneur basically since you were born, old enough to walk and make some money. And I love that I love that you bring it back to your friends who are struggling as well because we find ourselves in such a unique point in time. I remember back in the day when there was a question if video interviewing would actually stick. And I I was uh working for IBM at the time, uh Connects to IBM, and I was brought a um a use case, and someone said, Hey, do you think this would work here? Because I was in charge of all of our hiring. And I said, Absolutely. Do you know how much I am paying to fly people for interviews? Can we please do this ASAP? Because it shortened my hiring cycles. It also shortened um because, you know, any given position, it was three to one. So you're traveling three people to go interview for position that probably could have been knocked out by video. And then if we think about today, I mean, I've been remote for 10 years of my career, which is before it was cool. And it's because of technology and the way that we can talk and connect. And, you know, I've never met you in person, but I know when I see you, I'm gonna give you a big hug because I feel like I know you. For sure. Technology has definitely changed the way that we work and the way that we live. So what do you think from your point of view? And and I know you're in the the hiring portion of the work that we do, but what's important today, hiring for skills or for potential?

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Yeah, that's a that's a great foundational question. And I have in in from a personal perspective, I've done both and I've seen both succeed and I've seen both failed. So, you know, I I have definitely uh hired really, really talented, skilled people that didn't have the right cultural fit with the organization or were the wrong time for the organizational needs. So I would say I have hired really, really great performers that we totally outkicked our coverage from their skill set for what our company was. But then I quickly learned also there's a time and a place that that talent level of uh person enters into the organization and may not be the right fit. Um, and then flip side of that, I've hired remarkably hungry, gifted people who are willing to learn the job that maybe I actually more needed them just to get the job done, versus uh really have these ambitions of grand or beyond it. And so starting all that with a negative, saying I have done both and I failed at both, but I think some of it comes down to the stage of the company. And what I mean by that is like we're a perfect example. We're a growth company that we're starting to scale. We've taken on some funding. So we have, you know, I'm not saying unlimited funds, but we have access to maybe make higher sooner than a bootstrap company. But also we're at a stage where we don't need a ton of senior leaders. We need people who are actually willing to get the work done and maybe not as much on the strategy side, but we actually need execution done. As that starts to scale up, then you start to evolve beyond just people who are able to execute and you need people who are being able to be strategically thoughtful. So I think the first question that I would ask anybody that would be around what stage is your company actually at? And trying to find the unicorn that can do both is probably not that talented of a person, or they're lying to you, or you're uh being being uh probably overly pitched on one side of the their skill set or the other. So my default is I would hire the person over the skill set and work towards uh the skill set becoming a reality. Um, but I think now we're entering into a phase of our company uh where we need to hire people that are executors and are doers and have the skills already versus maybe less good, more green, but really motivated and talented in the future. Uh so I I I think the simple answer and a long-winded way of saying it depends, which is a horrible answer, but really tailored around asking yourself an honest reaction around what stage is what stage is your company? Are you more in strategic growth? Are you more in execution need? And that helps kind of guide the answer to that question.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

No, I love your response to that. So let me flip the coin. So let's say that I'm on the market and I'm navigating the complexities of getting a job in today's market, right? What how should I strategically identify where I am in that moment? And not to throw men under the bus here, but when we look traditionally at people that are seeking employment, if there is a job description out there and it says that you have to have XYZ, men in the past have been known to apply if maybe they're 80% of the way, where women would maybe not apply unless they're 100% of the way. These are just some behaviors I've personally seen over the years. So I'm I'm curious, just taking that outside and then saying, okay, you the human, you have this skill set, you want to go get this job. How can they start matching where they're the best fit? How can they strategically approach the crazy job market that we have right now to um hedge their bets?

SPEAKER_01 9:59

So let's put on the corporate piggy hat for a second, right? Let's put on the completely aggressive, uh, completely like you're just a number, uh a part of a spreadsheet and and you're nothing more than that. Just let's let's go to the worst extreme of that. Ask yourself, how are you irreplaceable? Like what talent do you have that's actually truly irreplaceable? Whether that's you're a developer. So on our team, our CTO is completely irreplaceable when it comes to our back-end infrastructure. If he left, my ability to replace that role becomes nearly impossible for that type of skill set. Uh, I look at myself. If I was going to apply for a position, could I, you know, signify myself as a decent sales rep? Sure. But where I think I'm irreplaceable is some of the partnership infrastructure that comes that has a long tail wind effect that I think that I would be potentially talented at. Now, are they better out there than me? Of course. But I, if I was a job seeker, I would really ask myself the question is where are you actually irreplaceable? And that's what I would hone in the most. Because when you're applying for a job, chances are you're looking at competing against somebody else who's talented who made it that far in the process as well. So, how are you pitching not just your ability to do the job, but how do you become irreplaceable for the organization? Um, we live and breathe in the world uh totally around like AI is replacing everything, whether it's AI or whether it's budget cuts or whether it's organizations just have too much fat and they're replacing, they're using a press release excuse that all AI cut all those jobs. I don't know if that's true or not, but I think the people entering the job market today, uh, whether you've been at it for a while, is really honing in on your irreplaceability and that's your pitch to the organization. And quite frankly, that's the skill set you can you should continuously hone in on, assuming it's something that you love to do.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

So yes, we all want to do things that are purposeful and and we want to show up and have the will to do them for sure. So let me ask you this. If we look at the world of work and we look at hiring and kind of the front-end piece of it, I'm just curious what you're seeing from your point of view. Would you say that hiring today is more difficult than it was maybe 10 years ago, the processing piece?

SPEAKER_01 12:03

I it's something like uh, I don't know if it's shower thoughts, but I've been reflecting on that for quite some time. I don't know the answer to that question, and here's why. Um, in let's take time post-COVID, but in smack dab in the middle of COVID as our as our recent reference point. During that period of time, if you were applying for a job, you could get a job anywhere because uh nobody could find candidates, right? So you would get a lot of people who are on the job market who could just walk in anywhere and get a decent job. Then now today, you almost have the flip side where you have candidates that are applying to so many different jobs and they're not hearing back from anybody. But then you also hear employers, oddly enough, say, we got a hundred applicants and they're all crap, right? They're just bad applicants. And that's is it because it's crap applicants? No. Is it because you have a bunch of fake applicants, you have instant apply, you have AI bots, you have all these things that are factoring into that? Absolutely. So I think like the the the broad, I think hiring is just as hard today as it's been in the future. I think it's a different challenge today than what it was four years ago and what it was 10 years ago. I think HR teams are dealt with more difficult challenges related to screening than they were sourcing. And I think for applicants, it's how to stand out when you know people, I think, take it super personally. And I understand you got to put foot on the table, you got to pay for bills, but you're competing against a lot of crap noise than you are competing against finding the right purposeful job. And so I think, yes, it's challenging, incredibly challenging. I mean, we're hiring right now, it's hard, but it's more we have applicants, it's just finding actually decent applicants that I think is the is the new wave of challenges that people are facing.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

I would agree with you. I know I've spoken to some of my my recruiter friends, and I've hung that hat up a long time ago, but they're having challenges on everybody looks the same. So everybody's obviously using technology to um fatten up their resume or or you know, try to elevate, right? Would I no hate or shame there. Um, but they're seeing that that they can't really tell, and people aren't able to get through the funnel. They're getting really overwhelmed or discouraged because there's 3,000 applicants, and to your point, it's probably bots, it's probably uh the quick apply, which I think is pretty much the closest thing to death. I know our dear friend Theo would say, you have a bad day, you hit the button, quick apply, right? Um, but it's a very reactionary thing. And I've had friends and colleagues, and I know you've had friends and colleagues that have been out of work for a really long time. It's a super scary place to be, um, especially when they're trying, you know, like you said, they're trying to put food on the table. So I love the guidance that you gave about, you know, setting yourself apart. So if someone out there is looking for a job, how do you think they're finding work today? Because I believe relationships is still king, but do you have any guidance on, okay, a population that is unemployed, here's some of the basic things that you could go to. Here's some of the sites you could trust, here's some of the people you could trust.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

This episode is sponsored by People Work. People Work's workforce building module helps organizations design talent pipelines that actually align with how work is changing. Instead of hiring reactively, teams can map skills, identify gaps, and build pathways that connect learning, hiring, and long-term workforce strategy in one place. It's built for employers and workforce leaders who need visibility into skills, not just job titles, and who want to make smarter, future-ready workforce decisions. Learn more at peoplework.com. Now, back to the episode.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

So I don't know if this is right or wrong, but this is just the real world of our of our applicant pool. Um, we posted a growth marketing position, and I think we got about 200 applicants, and probably 120 of those were solid applicants, like real, legit, uh qualified for the role. The people that stood out to me, the people that sent me a side message on LinkedIn or email and said, Hey, Matt, just wanted, you know, I put my my name in uh put my hat in the ring, and uh were interested, you know, interested in this position, and here's a little bit of my skill set. And a lot of those I didn't know who they were, but I took those and I forwarded it right to our COO who's making the hires, and I just said I just wanted you to see this. So that was a practical thing that caught my attention that caused me to take action to somebody who's actually making the hiring decision, and that still to this day got my attention. Now, those are also people, if we didn't end up hiring them, I'd go back to them and say, I've got a couple friends who are hiring for this role. I'm sorry it didn't work out with us, but let me make some intros. So then all of a sudden they've built, even if it's a completely virtual, even if I don't know who they are, they've built some credibility with me and who am I? I'm not saying I'm the end all be all, but to this day, that's still caught my attention enough to cause action for me. And so, you know, if you're applying to a massive company, is that true? Maybe not, but you're still going to catch people's attention in some way, shape, or form. A lot of that is kind of more in the traditional. I'm posting it, I'm, you know, I'm applying for a job that's posted and traditional mechanisms are on there. In my opinion, if I was entering the job market today, I would go to all the business owners that I know and I would sit down with them and I would say, hey, I'm I'm up for bid. I'd like to, you know, take a look at this company. And, you know, if they said no, they're probably going to make an intro to somebody else who is. And I still think the networking approach is the best way to do it. Not everybody's comfortable with that. That's a very sales forward approach. I understand and I respect that. But I still think the folks that are not afraid to take a little bit of initiative in that process and reach out to founding team, executive team, that goes a long way.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

I agree. I've had that happen many times over the years, and there's just something very vulnerable and transparent when those reaches happen and land in your box, right? And so you know, oh, I really want to help this person. They've gone above and beyond. They're really showing the willingness to to work and the want to work. Um, okay, so let's flip the question. Where do you think that hiring practices are broken within organizations? Where do you see organizations fall down the most?

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Um I think well, first, I think people assume that technology is going to solve all of their problems. So I have many friends who either own, have built, or launched an applicant tracking system. And I have many, not enemies, but people who I've seen build ATSs, and both sides have promised the world that an ATS is going to solve everything. So then you have you have hiring managers, poor sweet hiring managers, who are assuming they just purchased, they made their first time big purchase, they implemented an ATS, they posted a job, and they didn't get the cans they wanted. So they've been promised the world by technology vendors, it's not just ATSs. It could be video interview vendors, it could be recruiters, it could be any number of things, and they've assumed it was going to be the magic bullet that solved all their problems. I think it's unfortunately, and this is hard to say out loud, but it's a lot deeper than that. And you have to look at each stage of the funnel and you have to evaluate that. So, number one, if you don't have great applicants, I would take a look at what some of your street cred is, what some of your marketing material is, some of the recruitment marketing world. And that doesn't have to be going and hiring a massive firm. We get a good influx of applicants because I post a boatload of on LinkedIn that's about useless and nothing and just me being building my own brand, and that attracts candidates. It also probably deteres some candidates, but that's one simple way you can start to build a bit of a brand presence. And then you start to look at once you have applicants, what are your tools and systems in place to start to evaluate those things? Then once you have good applicants, are you able to actually move quickly, decisively, and put together good and fair offers that make sense for you know the application process? And then it gets into onboarding and cultural building and making people feel respected. We literally just got an offer accepted today, and our leadership team are all going to reach out to the candidate with a simple text or email and just say, hey, congratulations, excited to meet you at the beginning of the year. Small little things that go a long way. So I, to me, if you're an organization and that's a lot to ask, but if if if everybody says people are the most important part of the process, if that's true, take a look at each stage of your funnel and actually evaluate that and break it down and say, are we assuming technology is going to solve all of it, or do we actually have a decent process and technology is going to enhance it and benefit it? That's with the time to start making an investment into software providers, whether it's Wedge and ATS, whatever it may be, there's a lot more you need to invest in time, energy, effort before you're ready to actually implement technology into the space.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Beautiful and well said. And if you don't know where to start, I'm sure someone can help you guys. But one of the things that I would always do that was practical would be actually applying to your own job and watching the process.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

For sure. We believe it or not, we use video interviewing for our video interviewing company. And it's a hard requirement, mainly just because, like, are we are we hiring thousands of people a year and scaling that? No, but we're hiring a couple of roles, but we make people go through that so they can experience firsthand what our technology does. And we love their feedback. We're hiring a couple brand positions, and we we want them to be like, hey, I applied for this job. Here's some feedback I have on the product. That's gold for us. And that's that's that's a way for an applicant to stand out as well, too. So I think going through your own experience is a huge step.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

No, I think so too. That's wonderful. So when you look at internal pathways, right? So we've talked about, you know, organizations attracting and kind of their process. And then we talked about if you're on the market, some really wonderful practical tips that you've provided there. How can organizations create real internal mobility? Like how can they assess this is the talent I have today? And and Matt, with in mind that a lot of the jobs that we've seen in the past two years didn't exist five years ago. And a lot of the jobs coming up don't exist today that will exist in the next three to five years. How can you, as a leader, how can other organizations Leaders really identify internal pathways to upskill, reskill, retain those employees. Do you guys have a plan for that?

SPEAKER_01 22:09

So we're going through an interesting phase of our company right now. And I'll I'll use my own example. So I'm the founder and CEO of Wedge, and that means I wear a ton of different hats. And one of the main hats has been I've been the one boots on the streets selling. We're now entering into a phase where I we're starting to scale beyond me just being able to sell that. And so even my own role has shifted and evolved, right? And I've accepted and I don't have a whole lot of ego about it. I may be the best SDR AE for the company, but I may be shifting out of some of the operational roles that I need to fill because I'm not a COO, right? So I think for one, you know, in again, in our real world relatively small company, it's an audit of the people that are currently in those seats as the company scales. Let's start to look ahead and what does that look like? And are the right people in the right seats? And are the right people in the seats to evolve? Or are they perfect where they're sitting right now? Like I said, I may not be the CEO of a 200 employee company, but I'm a great visionary CEO for a team of 20. So it how does that look and shift and evolve? And how does that grow? So I think for like talent mobility, like internal talent mobility, I think the first question that I would start to really ask is, you know, sitting down with employees and better understanding what is their desire to grow. And are you trying to put people into positions where they may not actually want to grow, but they're really good where they are? I think everybody assumes everybody wants to grow and continue becoming the CEO one day. And I think when you actually have honest conversations, people don't want that, but they could be really, really good at certain positions. I think the most classic time and time again used is like just because you're a good sales rep doesn't mean you're a good sales manager. And understanding that and accepting that, I we've had that conversation with our CTO Patrick. Patrick is one of the best builders in the world. And I think early in his career, he wanted to go manage a ton of uh developers underneath him, but realized he wasn't doing a lot of the development, which he loves. And so he's kind of shifted his mentality into maybe I'm just really good at developing and I want to bring other developers in to help work together and work alongside, but I don't really want to manage a team of 20 developers. And so I think that's it's a very long-winded way of saying, like, and it's a little dumb and ambiguous to say out loud, but having real conversations with folks and understanding what their expectations for growth is, and then looking at your organization, say, where are we today? What do we hope to do today? And if we do that in six months to a year, what does the organization, the best you can predict, what does that start to look at? And do we have an evolution path for the current team members, or are those new folks coming in and serving those higher level positions, or are those current team members members able to upskill into more managerial positions, helping them grow in that pathway and then backfilling their current role too? So I I mean, there's we could probably talk for days or years about that topic, but I think I think it's it's honestly having a reality around or real conversations around current team members and where you hope the organization grows. And are they the right people to to continue to grow the needs, or are they really good at what they do, keeping them there, incentivizing them to be there, and then bringing in leaders that are able to step in and help scale beyond that?

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Well, and I I know what you said was so simple, but so many organizations don't get the importance of meeting the human where they are and having the honest, transparent conversations, right? Like, what do you like about your role and what motivates you? And we think you'd be great at this. And when you're looking at the future, Matt, that you've got to be looking at um as you know, talent readiness and assessing, continuously assessing that talent. Do you guys have mechanisms in place that work for you and that you would recommend other organizations do and assessing the talent?

SPEAKER_01 25:46

My honest answer is probably give us six months. Uh we're we're currently we're currently going through some of that as well because now you know we you go from a team of 10 where everybody wears every hat to now you have we have teams and we have people who are in teams and we have people who are running teams. And then as those teams start to expand, then it's like, okay, what is the what is the responsibility of this team member who six months ago was doing 10 different things? Now they're really doing two different things, right? So I I I can't give a great recommendation for that yet. Give me about six months and I might have a different answer for that.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Oh, don't hold me to holding you two six months every interview because it might just happen.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Call me 90 days, we'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

I call you in 90 days. So, so quick question for you. What's something that you see in our industry that's really that just really irks you? That you really gets your get your gut that you think needs to change in the world of employment and workflows and all the things that we're trying to usher into both organizations and humans.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

So this is gonna give me a little rope here. This is gonna take me a second to get there. Go for it. So I don't apply for a lot of jobs because I've been a CEO of my own companies since I was 15 and I'm 31 now. So I've been a CEO for more than half of my life. Um, one thing I do apply for a lot of is funding. And we talk to a lot of different uh venture funds and investors and family offices and all that. So different, but I'm applying for funding and relationships with a lot of these different organizations. And one common thread that's said all the time is we like to invest into entrepreneurs that we believe in and support and uh we want to see them grow and thrive. But then when you apply, whether you're applying for funding or setting up a meeting or one of their managing partners reaches out, they all say, Well, you need to be at these thresholds in order for us to have this conversation. If you're at this threshold, let's have the conversation. And that's where I wish those firms would say, Hey, if you're a company that does X amount of revenue or has X amount of customers or has this industry, then we'd like to evaluate your business and you as an entrepreneur. Same thing happens in the job market, where we are, people say all the time, people are the most important part of our organization. We want to hire people for people. But what they really mean is if you have 10 years of experience in marketing. So I wish companies would acknowledge one of two things. Either A, you actually care about skill set, which is okay to acknowledge, or if you're really gonna hire for people, get rid of the pre-qualifications that are actually the roadblocks that stop you from hiring people for people. And that's one of the things that irks me the most. That's traditionally uh in the format of a resume or a cover letter or a background or background skills. But I think to me, one of the biggest like just audits should be is if you're a company that actually cares about skill set, own that. Acknowledge that, be upfront about that. That's great that you know that. And there's nothing wrong with that. Or if you actually want to hire people for people, back to I think your original question, then acknowledge that, like, hey, you don't actually have any hard requirements. You would like to see these things, but you don't have hard requirements, and then you want to evaluate people for people. I just the the amount of lip service around people are the most important part of our organization, but you got to have these qualifications first. Well, people aren't the most important part of your organization, then skills are the most important part of your organization, and you want to hire people with those skills, not people, and then they happen to have those skills. That's one of the things that just drives me nuts.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Well said. Me too. It's it's a bit of um bait and switch, I think, for for somebody that's looking for a home. I mean, where you work and what you do has so much purpose. It's like one of the biggest things, like up there with buying a house and getting married and death, right? It's one of the biggest commitments that you'll make in your life, both ways, employee and employer, and nothing's forever. So I think that you know, we are in a we are in a place in time where uh humanity craves transparency, they crave purpose, they crave all these things. There was a study done by Gallup, um, and I'm gonna ask you this question because I got it wrong, but they said based on a uh survey they did, employees want this one thing over everything else. And so I'm gonna ask you if you think it's hope or trust. Because they ranked one of these employees ranked one of these the number one thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

I mean, my answer would be hope, but I would guess it's gonna be trust.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

So my answer was trust, and it was actually hope. So hope, yeah, right. So hope, because I thought, well, you have to trust to hope. And then I thought about like, no, no, no, you can hope. And then trust is just as important. But hope is the number one thing ranking for Gallup, which I thought was super interesting because as we look at our organizations, we look at this time that we're in, we need to provide hope. But to your point, it needs to be more than lip service.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Well, and and for people who are uh maybe Debbie Downers or view the world as falling apart, I think that's actually a really great side of encouragement. That that's the number one thing that people want. They're seeking out. They may not be getting it, and that's where there's work to be done. But I think that's actually one of the more encouraging things you can hear is that the majority of people, the thing that they're desiring the most out of the work that they do, the time that they spent, the commitment that they're making to an organization is that they want to have hope a part of it. I think that's actually a pretty encouraging thing for the world. Now, the work that needs to be done, the opportunity there is how do you create hope for people to feel that? And how do you create organizations and how do you create mission statements and how do you actually create products that that create hope for people and actually fill that void? But I think that's actually a pretty, pretty encouraging thing.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

I think so too. I I was just shocked because I thought, well, most everybody wants trust because there is no trust in today's society, right? With every US citizen getting seven points of fraud every single day. Like it makes finding a job or looking for a job that much harder. And we've all seen that. Like, um, you know, there was a colleague of mine actually from a very large organization who specialized in onboarding who got fraudded, accepted a job in desperation because of the economy and everything that was going on, got frauded, accepted this job, sent in everything that she thought she was supposed to, and they wiped out her bank account. So it it's so yes, hope is definitely there. And I think in very and second was trust. So it has been so much fun going back and forth with you in this interview. But before we we close out, is there any nuggets of wisdom or anything that we might have missed that you want to share with the audience?

SPEAKER_01 32:19

I I mean, for one, if you're a job seeker out there, keep your head up. It sucks, it's hard. And uh when it comes to you know getting a job and paying bills and uh you know having dreams and having hope of what the future looks like, I keep your head up and and and as discouraging as it can be, there are a lot of great organizations out there hiring. So I would definitely say just keep your head up. And and the flip side of that, if you're a hiring manager, you're a business owner, and you're you're trying to fill, there are a lot of great people out there. And it might it might take effort, it might take time, it may be challenging, but there are a lot of great people out there worth investing into. And don't get too discouraged by the process. It might might suck for a little bit, but don't get too discouraged. And I think the more you can be patient and thoughtful, I think on both sides, the the better fit that's coming. So I I most of it's just have some hope. It's it's out there.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

I love it. That was such a great way to end the conversation. And if anyone watching in the audience would love to learn more about you or your organization, where should they go?

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Yeah, I'm way too accessible. So you can reach me in a lot of different ways. But uh, if you want to learn more about wedge, wedgehr.com, you can find us there. If you want to reach out to me directly, Matt at wedgehr.com or um on LinkedIn and loud and obnoxious, so shoot me a DM there anytime.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

I mean, you're responsible for responsible for at least one to two giggles from me each week. So I love your content. I think it's great.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

That's the hope I have in the world. Just give people some giggles on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

It's so great. Well, Matt, thank you again so much for holding space for myself and our audience and your wisdom. And uh I wish you a very happy, healthy, and prosperous 2026.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Thank you so much, Chris. You're the best.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

All right, see you next time. Thank you for listening. I'm your host, Christy Honeycutt. Be sure to subscribe to Strategic Shift so you never miss an episode. Tune in next time as we continue to explore innovation in the future of work. Until then, keep shifting.