EP03-Stillness is a Power Move: With Expert Vance Row

You’ve been trained to storm scenes and lead under pressure. But who trained you to slow down, on purpose?

This week, Erin sits down with Vance Row, a retired law enforcement officer who did the one thing most first responders are terrified to do: he got quiet. Vance shares his powerful story of reaching the end of his rope, ditching the booze, and stumbling into a yoga studio that would change everything.

Don’t roll your eyes yet. This isn’t about yoga pants or chanting. It’s about reclaiming control of your nervous system and learning to breathe again. Vance talks about anger, alcohol, and the hard moment his wife showed him a video that made him face himself. From that rock bottom came recovery and purpose.

Now Vance teaches mindfulness and movement to first responders who think they’d never be caught dead in a yoga class. (Spoiler alert: you can still keep your edge.)

You’ll hear:
What really happens when a warrior slows down
How Vance discovered yoga, cold plunges, and sobriety (in that order)
Why your job is not your identity
One simple practice you can try today...no mat required

MENTAL FIREPOWER:
Let yourself get still. Your body knows more than you think. Stillness is how you hear it.

CALL OUT:
Try one thing from today’s episode. Maybe it’s stillness. Maybe it’s a breath. Maybe it’s just getting honest with yourself. Whatever it is—start there. And if you’re curious about yoga but not ready to walk into a studio, check out “Yoga Rescue with Vance” on YouTube.

RESOURCES:
Yoga Rescue with Vance
Yoga with Adriene – Beginner-Friendly Options

LIKE THE SHOW?
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https://uppbeat.io/t/needmospace/chill-power

License code: QUUZB4TP7STKMLJN

Transcript

Erin: ~[00:00:00] You've been trained. To storm scenes, right? Clear rooms lead under pressure. But who trained you to slow down, like I mean, slow down on purpose. And today's expert, yes, expert, he is a guest, but he is our expert, is someone who's walked the line, worn that badge, and then to the one thing that most of us are terrified to do.

That man got quiet. Vance Rowe is a retired law enforcement officer who now teaches mindfulness through yoga. Yeah, if you could see this guy, he does get bendy yoga. I said yoga, and he teaches it to the responder community amongst others. But before you roll those eyes, and this is something we've joked about many times.

Give yourself a chance to hear what's possible. 'cause it's not about, you know, yoga pants and scented candles, or maybe there is enc chanting. So I just want you to hear this out because the important thing for everyone to know is this is really about a strategy for your nervous [00:01:00] system. It's really about learning to breathe again, because so many of us hold our breath, we stop breathing Especially when we have jobs like these jobs that actually like squeeze the breath right out of you. So let's talk a little bit about what happens when a warrior actually leans in to something that they may, feel a little bit more uncomfortable about. But that is actually very, very beneficial because the man I have with me today has done that and he has not lost one iota of his edge.

So, welcome Vance. 

Vance: Thank you Erin. So nice to be here. 

Erin: So great for you to be here. I'm thrilled. Yeah. I appreciate you kicking us off. 'cause one, obviously we are friends and I value what you're up to and who you are as a human being, but. You're also unique in this world in terms of, it's not often that we see a, giant man.

Mm-hmm. Getting stretchy and bendy, embracing its, and [00:02:00] doing it with such grace. Mm-hmm. I mean, you're definitely more bendy than me, so, right. I think what is important, and, this is for our listener, because this is a little bit different of a show in the way that we do things. We're not gonna get into the war stories, and I've explained that to you because the things that got you to your depths of despair aren't as important as what was done about it.

Now, of course, a little bit of background help. So, Vance, can you do me a favor? Do us a favor and explain a little bit about. Kind of the end of your story, like what got you to the point where you thought, I need to do something different? of course I know you didn't purposely choose yoga, it found you.

So can you kind of tell us a little bit about that? 

Vance: sure. I gotta tell you that I got to a point in my career that, I got real angry, pretty much all the time. And my fuse got really, really short, which when I talk to all different, types of responders, that that is what I hear from them too.

And that that has to do with probably a dysregulated, central nervous system. And [00:03:00] we. I was just mad all the time and my, my coping mechanism was to try to numb it or try to drink it away, and I, I didn't understand that that's what I was doing. I just, I was getting drunk, because there was a time that drinking was fun.

And in this, in this time, wasn't fun anymore, but it was, it just, it became a necessity. there's really, there's two things that happened in the span of about 12 months that really significantly changed the direction of my life. the first one is in November of 2018, a local police officer took his own life and he had been on the job for 27 years, and I had actually worked with him in the city of Salisbury.

His name was Aaron Hudson. the reason that that became so significant is because I had had suicidal ideations for a while at that point. so I, you know, I tell you how I was mad. Uh, I then had an on-duty injury, which took me out of the police world, you know, so there, there's a two year period that comes up until [00:04:00] this, this point in 18 where I'm just feeling pretty lost.

So the reason that Bull's death becomes so imperative is because going to his funeral, I could now get the words outta my mouth to tell my wife, Hey, I'm thinking about killing myself. 

Erin: Hmm. 

Vance: So that's event number one. Event number two, uh, the drinking continued. and that continued for probably the next like nine or.

I had quit a handful of times, you know, for like a week or something like that. I'm like, see, I'm not an alcoholic. and there was a point in late 2019 that I had quit for six weeks and over a two day period, I made up for lost time. here's what's different. This time my wife takes out a cell phone and she records what I look like.

And she shows it to me the next day and she says we need to talk and, for anybody that understands like stages of change or anything like that. Like I wasn't going [00:05:00] through these like, you know, pre-contemplation, contemplation, you know, I, I wasn't doing any of that. I was like, oh my God, this woman that I've been with for 20 plus years, is disappointed, embarrassed, and frustrated with me.

it just kind of turns. literally all at once. 

Erin: Yeah. And I imagine she had a ton of desperation to like, go to those lengths. Yeah. You weren't hearing her. And so she's like, I gotta record it, otherwise he's gonna deny it, right? 

Vance: and she had made comments to me before about, Hey, ~this is,~ this is getting a little much, and I'm tired of babysitting you, but I didn't hear that.

but you know, like the, the words got there, but it didn't resonate. This did this hurt. Mm-hmm. And, always tell people that I did not intend to stop drinking forever. I just didn't ever wanna have that conversation again. And the way that that conversation doesn't happen is if I don't drink for today.

And what ended up happening was literally an AA model is one day at a time. went for me that [00:06:00] every 24 hours I just wasn't gonna drink. And then I got a little competitive and I started drinking like days and weeks and months together, to point

Erin: competitive with yourself.

Vance: Competitive, like, oh, okay, so I've been this long.

How much longer can I get? And it, it just, and then it was, and then it just starts to snowball. 'cause again, raised in team sports, you know, I'm, I can, I can compete about just about anything. At this point, it's been five and a half years. And the first two, I didn't tell anybody about anything like Amy knew.

And, and she would be very considerate and be like, Hey, I was gonna have a glass of wine tonight. Is that okay with you? And but after about two years, I started to talk about it. And I think that's when the healing really started because it's one thing to just not drink, but then there's a whole other side of like exploring sobriety and being sober.

And I feel like I've gotten to do that over the last couple years. And now when I talk about it and I talk about my story, it's not that I just stopped drinking. [00:07:00] It's not that I went to a yoga class. It's all this combination of. For my mind and my soul, to kind of get where I am now. 

Erin: Can you name a couple of those things?

Vance: Oh my God. Yeah. So, firstly therapy huge for me, and finding the right therapist. so the, the, the lady that I see. Now on a every other week basis, it was on an every week basis. she is specific to first responders. so I don't have to explain anything about culture. She gets it. Mm-hmm. So it's just a lot easier to talk to her.

I will tell you that I take medication every single day. Um, I do go to a number of yoga classes every week. I also, do cold plunges, uh, at least one a week. I know you're, I know you're a no. Um, at least one a week, maybe two. oh. And I let, and I go to, and I go to reiki, which that's a little hippie dippy for the first responders, but, some of this stuff is, definitely translatable into their world, and [00:08:00] that's, that's why the whole yoga thing, really came up. And, and, and I'll tell you where it kind of came from was within a couple days of that confrontation where Amy shows me these videos on her phone. I go into a yoga studio for the first time and you know, I, I know that what your listeners can't see is my stature, which I'm not a small person.

Erin: And 

Vance: I am a 6 4 260 pound former football player. Former police officer. So, what I like to say during presentations is I, I'm like, Hey, everybody's got a phone. I pull your phone out and go to Instagram and just type in yoga. And I promise you, I don't look like anything like that. Well, my point is, I thought when I walked in, they're gonna be like, what is this gorilla doing here?

and I thought it was, I thought they like point laugh.

What I actually got out of that first session was this immediate feeling of community, [00:09:00] and that's when I started to realize that I had really started to pull myself away from a lot of the things that I used to love and a lot of the people that I used to love. and that was pretty eye-opening. So I started going and, and it felt very supportive.

And within 30 days of that first practice, I told, I came home and I told Amy that I was gonna teach it to people like me. And she's like, of course you're so 

Erin: go big or go home. Right, 

Vance: right. Like, right, this 

Erin: works. I gotta share it with others. 

Vance: Right. It's exact. I mean that's, that's how I've been for my entire life.

If I find something that, look, it works for me, I'm gonna share it with other people. 

Erin: Yeah. That's how passion happens, right? okay, so yoga kind of found you. Yep. And you decided, okay, hey Amy, I'm gonna teach this to others. Okay? Yep. Okay. that's like great in theory. And how did you make that happen?

Vance: So any yoga teacher has to go through a 200 hour, certification program. The one I went through, it was one weekend a month, [00:10:00] and we did that for seven months. that comes out to 200 hours. So, and that was just at a local. In my hometown here, and, I didn't feel prepared to teach the, the population that I wanted to teach at that point that taught me how to teach yoga to people that already knew how to do yoga, which that's not what I was looking to do.

I was honestly looking to teach to people that had no experience and you know, that literally this would maybe gonna be their first class. So I actually, through a friend discovered Warriors at Ease, which was a, yoga and meditation program that was, uh, originally constructed in the military and they were working with all the veterans.

it started, uh, outside of Fort Bragg in North Carolina. now they've, they've, they've been all over the place and they've trained a bunch of teachers. A bunch of the teachers actually are veterans themselves. Wow. And they want to go back and they help other people. And, what I found is it's virtually the same, like all the [00:11:00] information is translatable into the first responder world.

so I kind of just kind of fell into that. I won a yoga competition called Yoga Warrior in June of 22. And as a result of that, veterans Yoga Project actually reached out to me and were like, Hey, would you want to go through our training program? And I was like, sure. so again, just, ~uh, it, it,~ it's solidifying what it is I want to do that I wanna work with people that are just like me 

Erin: mm-hmm.

~Um,~ 

Vance: that have no exposure to this. And maybe this would be their first ever class, and I want them to begin to see the benefits ~of,~ of what it is to slow down. Yeah. ~Um,~ so look, ~you know, I,~ I can certainly look up on the internet and look up like, benefits of yoga and it's gonna tell you about, ~um,~ maybe you get your muscles a little stronger, maybe be a little more flexible.

Maybe you can even sleep better. But I, I'll share personal experience for me is I was diagnosed with anxiety. I was diagnosed with depression. ~Um,~ and if I look back [00:12:00] on it, ~uh,~ I've been an anxious person for a large majority of my life.~ I was,~ I was always worried about stuff that other people weren't worried about, 

Erin: and I 

Vance: just thought it was me being overprepared, but I would get so anxious that I would actually like upset my stomach.

~Um, the, the,~ the reason~ that I,~ that I tell you that so anxiety is like trying to have all the thoughts. All at one time. And ~not,~ not just in the present moment, but trying to have all the thoughts from five years ago and trying to have all the thoughts from five years from right now. Right. And trying to do it all at once.

And that's anxiety. ~Um,~ when I try to explain it to other people and if I can put a visualization to it, if, ~uh,~ you know, at Christmas time you have the little snow globe and you shake it up 

Erin: mm-hmm.

Vance: Everywhere. That's anxiety. Okay. I love it. Everything is, everything's floating around. What, here's what yoga did for me. Slows everything down. Let the snowflakes come down and I can have one thought at a time. I can do things in the present moment. That's the power of yoga. ~Um,~ and it sounds [00:13:00] so, ~uh,~ counterintuitive that.

In order for me ~to, to,~ to be more productive, to succeed more at life, that I need to slow down in this present moment and take one thing at a time and be deliberate and be intentional and be purposeful. 

Erin: Mm-hmm. 

Vance: Um, but it turns out it's incredibly helpful. Mm-hmm. Uh, 'cause what I was doing was I was just, ~uh, you know,~ the only thing I ever knew was I only knew the physicality ~of,~ of things, meaning that.

I could always like force my way to do something more. Like, oh my God, I'm so tired. ~Uh,~ I don't, oh, I just gotta go to work another day. I only slept for two hours. Okay, well I can drink three monster energy drinks and now I can stay up. 

Erin: Mm-hmm. 

Vance: ~Um,~ it was always like, I can push harder and push through whatever I don't feel right.

And that's not really. Healthy. Not at all. I mean, that ~which, which, which,~ which I can say now at, at 48 years old and recently retired, but I didn't know any better in my [00:14:00] twenties and in my thirties. And I thought I was supposed to work all these hours and I needed to prove myself. And you know, I, I, I wish I would've learned some of these lessons earlier in my career, but, you know, they happened when they needed to happen.

Is is really what it comes down to. 

Erin: Yeah. And you might not have even paid attention to 'em had you learned them or seen them earlier in your career. Right, right. It's, I actually 

Vance: just said that to somebody the other night. I'm like, if somebody would've told me 10 years ago, like, Hey, you wanna go to yoga practice?

I would've been like 

Erin: yoga. Right, 

Vance: right, 

Erin: right. Wow. and it is a very powerful tool. I love yoga. ~Um,~ and what you were describing there is. Mindfulness, you were. Mm-hmm. You're describing exactly what it is to slow down, be present, pay attention to what's around you, notice your breath. All of that is mindfulness.

So if you were to give our listener one piece of mental firepower, now obviously, like you just said, a lot of these folks, a lot of folks are into yoga. But what would be one thing that our listener could do even as [00:15:00] soon as this episode is over and like deploy this action in this moment? I. Or when they have a moment that might be helpful for them, 

Vance: you know, the best thing that they can do.

And, and it's, and it's gonna be really hard for people. I, and I understand why is let yourself be still.~ Um, and let,~ and let your, ~um,~ let your emotions and let your feelings actually come up to the surface because we've been trained for a really long time that we're not supposed to feel and we're not supposed to have these emotions and 

Erin: right.

Vance: The only way you can ever let these things pass is to allow yourself to feel. So when I say allow yourself to get still. That's how you can start to see your body's intuition and, and what it is that you really wanna do. and when you get quiet, what does your mind and body say to you? Is it like, Hey, I would really like to do, fill in the blank and then do it Follow your bliss.

Whatever it is that would make you happy, do it. Look, I'm [00:16:00] not saying everybody's gotta do yoga, I'm saying find your thing. Mm-hmm. And your thing is not your job, so, 

Erin: right. 

Vance: Which, which is what I literally put all my eggs in one basket 

Erin: for, 

Vance: for a really long time, and then all of a sudden it was gone. 

Erin: Yeah.

and that will happen to all of us. Eventually, we will no longer be doing these jobs. Correct. And then, then who are we? Correct. Right. And that's one of the biggest reasons why this show even exists is to begin to kind of pick yourself apart figure who am I, what are all these different identities outside of this, outside of this badge or this uniform?

so what I heard you say in this mental firepower. Is in that stillness. Just be present with your body's sensations, the thoughts coming through your mind. ~Um,~ I notice that when we are so busy or we are making ourselves wrong for how we're feeling day in and day out, ~um,~ for whatever reason we make ourselves wrong for those things, we miss those [00:17:00] dashboard lights that our body is trying to show us.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. And like my, ~uh,~ stomach is always my red alarm. I'm like, uhoh, somebody's about to lose their shit. Mm-hmm. ~Uh,~ because your stomach, that tightness in my stomach, but it took me a long time to get present to that. Right. And so in that stillness is the opportunity to be able to be very conscious of your body's telling you what to do 

Vance: ~and, and,~ and the body is not meant ~to,~ to live in these.

Go, go, go frantic states, which is how most first responders live. Yeah. And, and the fact that like, hey, when I'm on a shift, like I have to be, alert and aware at all times. Mm-hmm. And you, you're not, you're just not supposed ~to,~ to live like that. And there has to be a time where you can kind of, ~uh,~ let the air out of the sales and kind of just bring yourself back down.

When you don't do that, that that's what's gonna lead to burnout. That's what's gonna lead to, ~uh,~ having to do other things, ~uh,~ in order to cope, [00:18:00] substances, ~uh,~ or gambling sex. All, all these other things that, because that's what you're gonna need in order to feel. So finding other ways to start to calm down the nervous system is enormous.

Because we live so much of our life in that fight or flight, ~uh,~ response. And then we wonder why we can't sleep and we just frame shift work. And that's not to,~ and, and,~ and I'm not gonna say that shift work is ~not,~ not an issue for people sleeping. It's not the only issue. 

Erin: Mm-hmm. No, no. There's many, many reasons.

And what you're describing today. It can also help your sleep because it's helping slow ~your,~ your brain and your body down. I really appreciate your insight, and I appreciate the fact that you do show up in this world as someone that's like, listen, I'm doing it. So can you. And I'm a firm believer that when we are rowing in the right direction, when we're on the [00:19:00] right path, that things begin to fall in place for us.

And it sounds like. As soon as you made that decision, like, I'm gonna teach this to people, this is what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna teach this to first responders. That opportunities started happening for you, 

Vance: Yeah. In a way that you'd have 

Erin: to force it 

Vance: and listen, ~I, I, I,~ I will be, I'll readily tell you that~ I, I,~ I wish more were like, ~um,~ hell about it and like, Hey, yeah, let's get it.

But look, it, it happens when it's supposed to. Yeah. ~And,~ and maybe other people weren't supposed to find it yet, just like I wasn't supposed to find it until, ~you know, the,~ the wheels almost came off. Mm-hmm. But it just, that, that just became my path. And it, you know, someone, someone far bigger than us decided, and that's why I always say it was like Finger of God stuff that was like, all right, you're gonna go to a yoga studio.

and let's see, and, and I don't know if he was like joking and he was like, let's see how this goes. But it turned out it was one of the best things in my life. 

Erin: And you said yes to it. Yeah. And, you could have let your fear take over or the story of people making fun of you or pointing their fingers take over and you're like, [00:20:00] you know what?

I have nothing to lose at this point. unfortunately it takes a lot of pain often for us to make a. Any kind of change in our life, right? And that's the goal, is to help people not get to a place where they're in that despair, you know, agree, agree that ideally they can start to kind of pick up little tools and tips and tricks.

so kind of the debrief of today's episode is. finding your stillness. Mm-hmm. Whether that's through yoga, through the breath, work through that. Just being still and recognizing the sensations that your body is showing you and telling you, or your brain is showing and telling you. We wanna, often ignore that first thought and often the first thought, you know, is that intuitive?

Sometimes it's a little bit crazy. I know, but, for the most part, the avoidance is not, no, not even for the most part, avoidance is not the answer. Right. leaning in is, is, 

Vance: ~and, and, and,~ and what I'll say to another point is, look, I know the world I came from and the idea of change is not, not [00:21:00] a, not a huge one.

The idea of doing something that's maybe a little bit out of the box, but, I, I keep coming back to, seeing people that are still in the professions. and when you look at 'em, when you talk to 'em, they're miserable. And you're like, well, have you, maybe tried this now? What have you done?

Oh, I, smoked more cigarettes and I drank more booze. 

Erin: Right. 

Vance: Oh, how's it going? 

Erin: Yeah. How you feeling now? 

Vance: Well, why don't, why don't we try something else? You know? 'cause maybe that will work. And we sit in this comfort zone that's not really comfortable, uh, that were, were miserable.

But we understand miserable and the idea of stepping a toe outside of that comfort zone into this unknown, but maybe it'll be good, you know? Uh, so I like to say that, you know, don't, don't be afraid to suck at something new because mm-hmm. You know, you, you, you never know where you're gonna find your passion, but you gotta try some other stuff.

Erin: Yeah. As we say in aa misery back guaranteed. Yep. if you'd like. [00:22:00] But I really appreciate you coming on and, sharing your expertise in this world. Thanks. because you are, you are an expert in this realm, I will say that for the call out today, the challenge is. Do one of these things that were suggested, even if it's that stillness and checking in and, just being with yourself for a moment to let those emotions rise.

I know it's scary, it's so scary, but give it a shot. And also resources. The resource would be while yoga, rescue. Yeah. And Vance has some yoga on video. That you can actually follow along. I, 

Vance: I, I have some on YouTube and I will, I create more. but that one is, it's Yoga Rescue with Vance.

That's the YouTube clip or that's the YouTube, 

Erin: channel 

Vance: page channel. Thank you. 

Erin: Yes. Awesome. So yeah, if you're curious about it, but aren't ready, like walk into a yoga studio, you can a hundred percent go to YouTube and look up [00:23:00] Yoga Rescue Advance. Right? That's the one. but do you not offer other options for people to work with you?

Vance: So I do, teach studio classes, uh, every week locally. but I also will do Zoom classes, or like work with people that way if, that's what they wanna do. I'm not looking to, and, and I, and I also understand that people work different kind of shifts and, you know, I'll certainly make it worth, their while. Like, I'll, I'll, do it into the evening, or I'll do it early in the morning, or I can change my schedule around to accommodate others, but I'll share one other thing on YouTube So there, there's a woman named Adrian that has a crap ton of, uh, yoga and they're all different varying degrees, like 15 minutes to an hour and a half.

Yeah. So you can actually take like, alright, I've got 25 minutes. Great. And my lower back. Great. I promise you she has probably 37, 25 minute lower back and she's very beginner friendly [00:24:00] and that, and fun. That's kind of how Yeah. Yeah. Just kind of quirky. She and her and, and her dog makes a lot of cameos.

Erin: Right. Which 

Vance: I listen, you know, I want all the dogs. So, um, so that's another good one. And, and I, I'm not saying that you gotta do yoga. I'm not saying you gotta do yoga with me. there's these other things out there that you can experiment with. Figure out what's good for you, and then maybe this makes you feel better.

Erin: I love it. Nice humility, man. You're like, Hey, it doesn't have to be with me. Just do the 

Vance: right. Just do the 

Erin: thing. Just do the thing, 

Vance: right? Listen, you don't practice with me. Great, but just practice. 

Erin: I love it. Uh, and I love you and thank you so much for kicking us off as our first expert of the Flashpoint Podcast.

Vance: Oh, it has been my pleasure. 

Erin: And right, I at you. You're so appreciated. yeah, we will see you around and I'll make sure I put all of your information in the show notes so people know how to contact you. I will also put yoga with Adrian in the show notes and yeah. Okay. So [00:25:00] listener, make it a strong day.

We shall see you soon.