Ep. 21 - Listener Question! "How to develop a strong percussion culture when the band isn't great?"

A listener asked: How do you build a strong percussion culture when the band program isn’t fully aligned?

In this episode, we break down practical strategies for creating buy-in, building momentum, and navigating challenging situations as a percussion educator.

From small wins to long-term vision, this is a real-world look at what it actually takes to build a great program, regardless of your surroundings.

Questions? Comments? - Reach out! teamislas@gmail.com

Books:
Player's Guide For The Beginning Percussionist - Beginner Percussion Book
Super Hands - Intermediate Snare Drum Method Book by Doug Bush
Momentum - Intermediate 2 Mallet Keyboard Book by Patricia Islas

YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@TeamIslas
 https://www.youtube.com/@zachscheer

Socials:
Doug
https://www.facebook.com/doug.bush.31
https://www.instagram.com/teamislas/

Patricia
https://www.facebook.com/patricia.a.islas
https://www.instagram.com/babypvibes/

Zach
https://www.facebook.com/zachscheer/
https://www.instagram.com/zach_scheer/

Transcript

Speaker 1  0:15  
The greetings and salutations, friends and welcome back to the team is lost podcast episode 21 My name is Doug bush, and today I'm joined by

Speaker 2  0:24  
Patricia is less

Speaker 1  0:25  
and Zach Scheer, and this is the podcast for anyone looking to better themselves in percussion education. Today we're answering a great listener question that came in. You know, normally we get all these questions, wonderful. We just shoot an email back. But this one was one that we felt was worth diving deeper into and doing an entire episode on. And the crux of this question was a young educator is very excited and to work hard and develop a strong culture for their percussion program, and was running into some obstacles because the head director they were working with was not necessarily interested in developing that same level of culture with the band. And so the question was essentially like, how do I go about developing the strong percussion culture that might is part of a larger band, culture that maybe isn't vertically aligned with with my thoughts? So I don't know what you guys think

Speaker 3  1:23  
something. You know, we didn't actually talk about this pre recording, but I just wrote it down. I don't think you can develop that. You can't create that out of thin air, right? Like, I want to have a successful percussion culture, especially if you have the challenge that you're creating it inside of a larger band culture. That's not great. You need a frame of reference, and you probably also need someone else, like a mentor, that can kind of tell you how you're doing, you know? So, like, I, if I just think about this, for me, personally, I had the privilege of student teaching with Jeff ostermore

Speaker 1  2:01  
and just

Speaker 3  2:01  
kind of being a fly on the wall when he was at Colleyville, and just watching this culture, right? And I remember a specific conversation where, you know, we were up there at like, eight o'clock on a Tuesday or whatever, and these kids are, like, you know, marching around the track and, like, painting the floor and doing all these things, right? It's like working really hard. And I remember kind of just thinking, like, man, they're having a great time. They're so into this. How does this happen? And I remember I had a conversation with Jeff where he basically told me, like, is to the point now that like, this is a big identifier of who they are,

Speaker 2  2:41  
yeah,

Speaker 3  2:41  
yeah, right. Like they identify if they introduce themselves to you on the street, they would say, Hi, my name is Zach, and I'm a percussionist at Colleyville Heritage High School. It might be the first thing they tell you about themselves,

Speaker 1  2:53  
yeah.

Speaker 3  2:53  
So I say all that just to say I had that as a frame of reference going into the place I then landed and trying to develop that I at least knew, like, where am I trying to go? Yeah. So that would be my first recommendation. If you find yourself in this situation and you haven't experienced that, or you don't have, like, a North Star that you're pointing to, man, find it. You know, email that guy, call that guy that's down the road or across wherever. You know that you have a lot of respect for what they do and find out how they do it and why they do it, and what mistakes they made that maybe you can avoid. Invite them to come in and give you some recommendations. I think that's very helpful, very helpful. Instead of just trying to do it all on your own, you don't, you shouldn't try to, and it probably won't work to try to do all on your own.

Speaker 2  3:43  
I would suggest being very patient. It isn't the kind of thing that you can just overnight at the beginning of the year, at the beginning of the semester, drop on the kids, like we're going to change all of these things. I'm going to require you be at such and such rehearsals, or that you participate in these things that you haven't been required to participate in before. For those things, you're going to get a lot of pushback at first. So I would, I would suggest being very open with the students, not just dropping something on top of them explaining what you're doing, what the expectation is, and why it's valuable up front, so that at least that's set in place, but then only asking for, like, little tiny things at first. I mean, you want them to be on board with you all of the way through the process, or else it's never going to happen for you, they need to commit to it just as much as you're committing to it. And so small, tiny successes at first, then can be built upon year after year, or with activity to activity, and you're going to find that they follow along with you a lot more successfully.

Speaker 4  5:00  
Right?

Speaker 1  5:00  
Yeah. And you know, like Miss Islas likes to say you're not even necessarily in the business, whatever your business is, you're not necessarily in that as much as you're just in the business of navigating relations with other humans or people, right? So it can, you need to be aware of the things that are within your control and things are without your control, and in this situation, it can be very easy to feel frustrated as you're trying to develop this culture. If you feel like you're you're having difficulties with your head director or the other band print, right? But you you don't have any control over that head director, and the decisions they make you have very minimal influence, right? So don't be careful how much time you're willing to dump into that, but you have 100% control over how you decide to respond to it, right? And I can remember sometimes working early in the working relationship with Mr. Scheer, where I witnessed fairly what I think most reasonable people would call like unreasonable things being presented to Mr. Scheer, and he I many times saw him just remain completely calm, completely poised, handle the situation with grace. And it was so impressive to me because I knew, to myself how difficult that would be, and Mr. Scheer is was in these situations, you know, focusing on the things that were within his control, and trying to make the best of the situation, and then trying to create the best environment for the students. So again, as you're as you're kind of like navigating these more difficult things, yeah, consider ways of communicating with the other humans you're working with. I think, as Matthew McKinney says, you know, there's the whole like treat others the way you wish to be treated. I would challenge you to treat your co workers better than you expect to be treated. Like, don't, you know, worry more about what the energy you're putting out and a little less about the energy that's coming back at you. Like, not everything is a personal offense. If it's like, you had that thing scheduled, you had that special percussion concert on the Thursday of April, whatever, blah, blah, blah, now it's got moved by because of a dance recital a week ago. You know, good, cool. Just a challenge to, how can we box stuff up? How can we do this? How can we do that? You know, look at it as an opportunity for growth, rather than because, if not, you're gonna get worn thin real quick, and it's gonna be hard to develop a culture period.

Speaker 3  7:28  
A phrase I like Mr. Bush is, anytime I'm confronted with a difficult relationship, especially if it's a professional one, is I decide that I'm gonna kill them with kindness, right?

Speaker 2  7:42  
Yeah,

Speaker 3  7:42  
and I don't know, maybe the person who posed this question, like, maybe they get along great with the head director. They just have very different like, educational philosophies. I don't know, but I do know that a lot of the band programs I've been around, or percussion directors I've talked to, or band directors I've talked to, sometimes we don't all get along great, you know, sometimes those relationships are difficult, so I just decide I'm going to kill them with kindness. I also think it's important to decide that you're going to do your job a certain way for you, regardless of who the head director is or isn't right like and so that's a good opportunity for personal growth. I also have a few things, like, if I found myself in this situation tomorrow at a school, what are some practical things I would try to do immediately? So I would try to, and this is, this is the language I'm using here among friends. I would not use this language if I was talking to the band director, right? I would try to gain control over as many teaching environments, and just anytime I have interaction with the students, whether that's a contest or teaching whatever, I would try to gain as much control over those environments as I possibly can. How do you do that? Because you can't just walk into this director's office that clearly doesn't see things the way you do and say, I want more control, right? That's not gonna work. So here's some examples. During my time at KalL, I slowly got to the point where by the end every solo contest we did, whether it was sixth grade all the way through 12th grade, whether it was like an ensemble thing or ringing in Judges, or it's just us, or whatever, UIL, just something. We create those all. We kind of got to the point where I had complete control over them. They were they were at the building I wanted them to be at. They were at the time, on the day, with the judges and the structure and the trophies, everything exactly the way I wanted it to be. Now, I didn't get that by going and saying, Hey, I don't like the way you guys are doing this, and I don't think it's the best environment for my students, so I'm gonna take my toys and go somewhere else that that's not how I did it. And actually, a lot of the way they did solo contest that I kind of pulled out of wasn't necessarily bad. I just wanted to do something different. Right? So I found myself going to band directors and saying things like, hey, you know what? We just finished solo contest. And by the way, I was there all day and worked real hard and helped out, right? But now here we are, post, the event is over, and I'm saying things like, Man, I know we have a lot of kids and it's really crowded, and I know we're struggling for rooms and a compass and this and that. And we never, we can't ever get the air on at this school, and it's hot and whatever, right? You had to make all the sheets and get all the trophies. Would it help you if I took a little bit of that off your plate and I took the percussion to a separate campus? You don't have to worry about moving equipment. I'll take care of the trophies. You don't have to make the sheets whatever. I'm posing this in a way that makes it like what I'm saying to that other colleague is, let me make this better and easier for you. And when you do that, people say, oh, man, thank you. Right. Like, yes, thank you. So if you can find ways to get things more under your control. You're going to have a chance to build that culture you want to build, but you got to present it to the people you work with in a way that makes it better for them. And then genuinely, it's good, it's good to make it it's not a trick. But there is an art until, like,

Speaker 2  11:15  
yeah,

Speaker 3  11:15  
you know, I'm sharing with them part of what I'm doing, just not, all right, like I am genuinely making it better for them. It's not a trick, but I'm not coming out and just saying I want to do things my way, not your way. Yeah, you know,

Speaker 2  11:29  
going back to those building the negotiation skills,

Speaker 3  11:32  
yes,

Speaker 2  11:32  
right? Because it is a problem that you're trying to solve, and you want whoever it is you're discussing it with to feel like they're in it with you to solve said problem, and you're going to get some stuff out of it, and your job is to convince them that they're also going to get some stuff out of it. And if both parties can walk away feeling that they got something out of the change, adjustment, whatever, then you're more likely to be able to have success doing that in the future with said person.

Speaker 1  11:59  
Yeah,

Speaker 3  12:00  
go ahead. Mr.

Speaker 1  12:02  
Bush, I was just going to pivot to kind of talking about aiming more towards the students.

Speaker 5  12:07  
Oh, sure.

Speaker 1  12:08  
So, yeah, okay. So, so an actionable thing in terms of, like, trying to develop this culture with the students that you can apply when maybe the greater band culture isn't quite as developed as you would like, trick that I've used over the years, many times to great success, is to talk to the drum line or the baseline or whatever section, in a sense of, like communicating to them, Hey, if this was the military, we are aiming to be the special forces of it, right any, anyone, for the most part, at the right age, whatever you know, can sign up To be a part of the Navy. And the Navy needs everyone, like they need everyone to do all kinds of stuff, but only very few even get the opportunity to be a seal. And of them, very, very few actually make it all the way, right? And then that is what the Navy can point to as, like the pinnacle elite of our organization. This is the best of the best, right? And so that's how I pitched it to the students. Also is like, that is what we are trying to be. Because, you know, when you're 14 and you're being asked to be silent and still in rehearsal, but then the trombone players aren't being silent or still. When you're 14 and you're being asked to show up with all your music memorized, but the trumpet players aren't showing up with your music memorized when you're 14, you've never worn a drum or hold you know, Jeff, I have some more outdoor drum sticks that are the size of your forearm or had to, like, March at 180 you've never even marched until a week ago, right? And now you're being yelled at to run back to your set. And it's 102 degrees, and the flutes who their instrument weighs nothing, are casually strolling back to the set. Why should you run right? These are all like, really good examples, actual examples of where you want to reframe it as like, this is good. This is opportunity for us to lead by example, right. Like to be I have a friend that funny enough in the Navy that was on submarines for many, many years. And he would talk to me about, like, the the assignment submissions where seals would show up, and how, like, you had this almost mythological idea of what they were like. And then every time they showed up, they, like, lived up to that expectation. They're like up before everyone they were, you know, he would talk about, like, sometimes standing next to the guy and looking at him, being like, I can't even believe we're part I can't even believe we're part of the same thing, right? And, you know, that has to feel really good, too, for the seals in that situation. It gives them a chance to kind of live up to that, you know? And so that's how you can start to build that culture is, right? I think that, you know, one of the things at Coppell is, one of the why we see so much excitement from the younger students to come in is they know they have a legendary view of what the varsity thing is before they've actually ever experienced it, and that is only exist because of the culture that was created. Like, as you said, you know there specifically with that and employing those values, right?

Speaker 2  14:57  
Yeah, I think you touched on something there too with that of. Of giving the students a model of what's possible. You know, it's one thing for you to tell them that playing better is going to be more fun, or even to demonstrate your own playing, like playing a marimba solo for them, or drumming some really cool stuff that they can't do yet, but taking them live and in person to see students their same age, doing things like you envision them doing is a whole different experience. I'm sure we can all point to in our music education, moments that stood out for us and that performances that we saw of other kids doing what we didn't even know was possible that then inspired us to do some great things. So taking them to, you know, a local percussion ensemble festival, or take them to see drum corps, or, you know, even certain individuals, bringing them to solo competitions that are outside of their school, where they're getting to witness other players from other places doing things that they probably haven't seen before. It's their own, own little world. I mean, we have access to so much through our phones, but that doesn't mean necessarily that we're going out and watching every single possible thing that's out there, so seeing it live and in person and going like, Hey, this is really cool, and this is why I think this is really cool, and this is why I'm excited about it will help to inspire them to have a reason to show up a little earlier, or do that extra practice, or take on that extra responsibility?

Speaker 3  16:26  
Yeah, you know, kind of back to your how to negotiate with our colleagues. Ms eastlas, I wrote down a few things here, smile and nod right and smile and don't talk like just listen more than you talk. And I know, like, I can definitely think of times where I just adapted this mindset of like, okay, if it's not something that negatively impacts the percussion section, I'm just not going to get involved.

Speaker 1  16:56  
I'm not

Speaker 3  16:56  
I don't really have an opinion on it. I'm not going to get involved. Not only do I not have time to get involved in these things, but like, I don't want to expend any of my personal capital with my colleagues on something that actually doesn't help the percussion section. So, like, sometimes I get in conversations with these percussion teachers, and it's like, it becomes clear to me they're very involved in, like, all of this other stuff that's, you know, whatever the color of the flags and the this and that. And I'm like, I don't know if that's the best use of your time and energy, and also just your personal like, I don't know capital with your with your colleagues. So I'm smiling and nodding and keeping my mouth shut a lot. I'm picking my battles, and when it comes time to do things that we have to do with the band UIL, or what, you know, solo con, sorry, not solo contest, but, like, the Concert Band stuff, or or whatever else I have to do. I am going to do it really well. I'm going to over deliver on those things. Like, even if I maybe don't have a great relationship with the head director, or the quality of the end product that the wins are putting out is not good. I'm still gonna make sure I'm really doing my job very well. And then just another environment that comes to mind that I know can be very successful, where you can kind of gather your tribe and do your thing and develop your culture. Is a middle school percussion camp. I know the middle school directors I worked with were very thankful when I was like, Oh, you need them to learn, Hey baby, or the fight song or whatever for we're gonna have a middle school percussion camp, and we're gonna learn that.

Speaker 4  18:29  
Make

Speaker 2  18:29  
sure we get that done.

Speaker 3  18:30  
We'll make sure we get that done. Now, little did they know I was rewriting it to be just quarter notes and eighth notes or whatever, so we only had to spend five minutes on it. But we were doing this middle school percussion camp where we were doing all these other really cool things that started to develop our culture, separate from the band culture. I think that's I think that's great. The last thing I would say is, even though it might seem that way, the grass is not always greener. At another program, you might be looking down the road at a program where the wins are amazing and every gig has its challenges.

Speaker 1  19:04  
Yeah,

Speaker 3  19:04  
you know, if you get into a situation where the wins are amazing, there might be pressure to make sure their percussion section is living up to that, or there's that every gig comes with its own challenges, and so I wouldn't run away from your job if you're like, I'm updating my resume and I'm out of here. You know, that's not necessarily the right answer, but at a certain point, if, in consultation with your mentors or other people in your life, it comes to that point, then it might be, it might be the right answer to leave. That's okay too.

Speaker 1  19:35  
Yeah, it's very tricky, obviously, and you need to know you, I think, is the first step of that. Like, what are your values? Like going into a situation you there needs to be the assumption that is not going to be perfect, flawless, idyllic, right? Yeah. So if you had to choose between a someone you genuinely enjoyed working with and put a smile on your face and you loved you. You know, getting dinner with or getting a drink with after, you know, and hanging out. But maybe they're not the best teacher, or maybe their standard doesn't meet yours, or this or that you know causes difficulty on the educational side, versus be someone that maybe you don't get super along with right at a personal level, but they are an incredible educator that's teaching at the highest you know, which of these two scenarios would you, you know, find more enjoyment being a part of or working with, right? So it's like Mr. Scheer was just saying the grass isn't always greener, but sometimes it is, right? And so I sorry. So to give you a more concrete thing, I guess, my my personal suggestion. You know, Miss East last night, are so fortunate. I mean, I don't know if anyone else can really speak to this, the way we can of of getting to see inside so many different band halls from so many different programs, from so many different high level educators, and so being able to clearly be like, be detached enough to clearly see what things were working what weren't, what struggles this group had that other groups didn't have, what advantages this group had, that our groups had. And that level of perspective gave us just such incredible, invaluable insight right to bring with us. And so with that being said, the two pieces of advice I would give you would, number one, reach out and speak with other directors like you, you need to make friends in this community of directors and and that, you know, are going to be open and honest with you about, how do they How's their middle school band director start rehearsal? Or, you know, you know, what is their when they want to do a drum line contest in a different city? How does their head band director respond to that? You know, all those type of things that's not things, that's number one. So you have a good, accurate read of what is actually happening in other places, not your mythological view from you know, where you are, of what you assume is happening. That's like number one. But then number two is, in almost every situation, I would say you need to give it at least a couple years, do not just jump immediately because things feel icky like is lost. And I have said for years now, because we've seen it in practice, on average, it takes about five years to develop a program. And by develop, I mean you show up and maybe you have two kids auditioning for front ensemble. Most of your high school students don't know their major scales or struggle to read music. Like to get that to oh, we're one of the strongest percussion you know, schools in the area, takes five, five years of hard work. So if you go in another place, it's more developed. It might only take three, it might only take four, but it's not going to happen in one. It's not going to happen in two, you know, and maybe only the most amazing circumstances would happen as quickly as three. So that would be my one piece of advice is, is try to hang in there. But at the end of three or four years, if, if you're still feeling pretty icky, it's probably time to look for for another place.

Speaker 5  22:56  
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, all good things.

Speaker 1  23:01  
All right. All right, all right. Thanks for hanging out with us today, friends. If you have any questions for the podcast, send them to Team E s gmail.com that's Team E slosh, T, E, A M, I S, l, a s@gmail.com, shout out to all the great percussion companies that support team e s, loss. This is Mapex, majestic percussion, dynasty percussion, Remo drum heads, pro Mark sticks them out, Sabian cymbals, beetle percussion and lot riot apparel to help develop your strong percussion culture. There are so many resources we have available for you to check out multiple best selling books, from the player's guide for your beginning percussionist to momentum for your mallet players. Super hands for your snare drummers. Opening statement, if you're looking for beginning and intermediate snare solos for your solo contest, Miss East last. Where can you purchase all these materials?

Speaker 2  23:53  
So you can find all of them at Team eastlas.com.

Speaker 1  23:56  
Yeah. Teammies last.com Steve Weiss, anywhere that you buy your music from, you should be able to grab a copy of any of these awesome you get a chance please leave us that five star review. Remember friends. Step one is timing. Step two is sound. Step three, subscribing to the team is lost podcast. You you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai