Ep. 22 - There Is NO Such Thing As An Open Roll.

Yes, you read that correctly! Rule #10 From Master Hands by Doug Bush states "There is no such thing as a roll, there is only rhythm and sticking". It's time for a mindset shift that will benefit you and your students! Stop playing rolls and start playing rhythms! 

Rule #11 - "Always know the relationship between your hands and your feet". Here, the team breaks down how, why, and when your students should be aware of the composite rhythm between the hands and feet. Also learn how you, as the teacher, can reinforce this skill, even for students who struggle with it.

Questions? Comments? - Reach out! teamislas@gmail.com

Books:
Player's Guide For The Beginning Percussionist - Beginner Percussion Book
Super Hands - Intermediate Snare Drum Method Book by Doug Bush
Momentum - Intermediate 2 Mallet Keyboard Book by Patricia Islas

YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@TeamIslas
 https://www.youtube.com/@zachscheer

Socials:
Doug
https://www.facebook.com/doug.bush.31
https://www.instagram.com/teamislas/

Patricia
https://www.facebook.com/patricia.a.islas
https://www.instagram.com/babypvibes/

Zach
https://www.facebook.com/zachscheer/
https://www.instagram.com/zach_scheer/

Transcript

Doug Bush:
Greetings and salutations, friends, and welcome back to the Team Islas Podcast, Episode 22.

My name is Doug Bush, and today I’m joined by Patricia Islas and Zach Scheer. This is the podcast for anyone — yes, you — looking to better themselves at percussion education.

Today we’re returning to the 24 rules that can be found in the book Master Hands, which is available on TeamIslas.com, and we’re looking at Rule 10 and Rule 11.

Rule 10 states: “There is no such thing as an open roll. There is rhythm, and there is sticking.”

Ooh. No such thing as an open roll — just rhythm and sticking.

What do you think about that, Mrs. Islas?

Patricia Islas:
Fake news.

I mean, what is a roll, right? How do we make sustained sounds on percussion instruments that have a very clear articulation and less-defined sustain? Well, we have to play a bunch of notes.

Any time you play more than one note, it’s a rhythm. You just have to determine the right rhythm for the job, and then you have to play that in time.

Doug Bush:
Yeah, okay. Thanks for the podcast, guys.

Mr. Scheer, do you have any further embellishments?

Zach Scheer:
Yeah. I mean, obviously you’re exactly right, Mrs. Islas.

The rub really comes when we try to do that with other people, especially on really articulate instruments like a marching snare drum or quads. That’s the application my mind immediately goes to when we talk about this.

Although I will say, I’ve also talked about this exact same thing with beginners. When I think about the conversations I have in rehearsals, it’s really easy to say this and have everyone nod their heads. You have these conversations at PASIC or TMEA, and someone says, “Well, I always say there’s no such thing as an open roll,” and everybody goes, “Oh yeah, that’s great.”

But what does that actually look like in practice? What does it look like in rehearsal?

I think when this idea becomes effective, it’s because I’ve created a mindset shift for my students around this specific topic.

I can think of times — and this could happen with sixth graders all the way through high school — where students play something involving a roll or diddles or whatever, and I’ll ask, “What did you just play?”

Every time, they say, “I just played a roll.”

Then I keep asking questions. I’m giving no answers. Eventually we get to the understanding that they’re actually playing rhythms.

That’s what they’re playing.

Then we keep going. I ask more questions, and eventually they arrive at the understanding that stickings are the tools, but rhythms are the thing they are producing.

If I can create that mindset shift, especially in an ensemble setting — the snare line, upper battery, beginner class, whoever — then we’re on our way.

We were just talking about this: you teach for understanding, but you review for mastery.

That moment of understanding is so important.

Doug Bush:
Yeah. And to your point about understanding, Mr. Scheer, this is something we’ve talked about many times on the podcast.

Mrs. Islas is kind of the master of this. You begin the whole process by asking questions.

I’ve got a beginner student who just learned what a roll is. They’re playing out of Player’s Guide, so they’ve been building toward this progression for levels and levels, even if they don’t realize it.

They’re playing something written as sixteenth notes with a slash through it, and we start asking questions.

“What does this slash literally mean?”

“What rhythm are you actually playing?”

If they can answer “thirty-second notes” in that instance, then we keep going.

“What are thirty-second notes?”

At that point I’ll probably lose 60% of the students.

But you continue asking those questions the next lesson, the next class, until they really understand.

And I think this approach is especially important now because there are two types of students we run into a lot.

You have the overstimulated students. By asking them questions, it keeps them engaged and thinking.

If you just talk at them, they’ll check out quickly.

Then you have the opposite: the very introverted student who sits quietly in the corner and isn’t comfortable speaking up.

This is a great opportunity, especially in a private lesson, to help them develop confidence.

“No, you’re going to look me in the eye and answer.”

And if it takes a minute, it takes a minute.

One thing I often tell students is: “It’s okay to say you don’t know.”

Nobody knows everything.

Those methods apply beyond just high school-level percussion.

Sometimes, if tempo permits and we’re practicing a roll exercise, I’ll have students play singles instead to reinforce the rhythmic value.

We’ll ask:

“Are you trying to make your diddles sound like singles, or your singles sound like doubles?”

We’re trying to make the doubles sound like singles.

At the end of the day, though, what I’m reinforcing is that they are not “playing a roll.”

They are playing a rhythm using a specific sticking.

That understanding helps later when they play paradiddles or other sticking patterns.

Patricia Islas:
That’s not to say there isn’t technique involved, because technique is obviously very important.

It’s just reprioritizing things.

The rhythm takes priority.

And rhythm is often something younger players can comprehend more easily than complex techniques.

Doug Bush:
Yep.

I would say this all falls under the heading of “Timing is number one.”

I’m also a fan of saying we play the drums with our brains, not with our hands.

Especially with high school snare drummers and quad drummers, I’ve found that when students get to roll passages, they often focus only on the technique.

In rehearsals we talk so much about fulcrum, hand pressure, back fingers, second-note quality, and all of that.

So naturally, that becomes the only thing students think about.

But a lot of times they’re not even mentally articulating the rhythm.

They’re just thinking “roll.”

They aren’t actually hearing or feeling the rhythmic subdivision.

I would almost argue that we should sometimes stop focusing on the technique entirely and instead focus purely on the rhythm.

The technique exists to serve the rhythm.

Doug Bush:
These rules aren’t just in Master Hands. They’ve also been part of our drumline audition packet for over a decade.

They’re hanging in all the percussion practice rooms.

That led to a really cool moment at drumline camp this summer.

I was working with the snare line during a diddle exercise, and somehow the question came up:

“Who has the best rolls?”

Unanimously, every snare drummer said, “Missy Mooney.”

Now, I had been demonstrating rolls with them all week and throughout their entire careers, so naturally I was offended.

Later, when the quads joined us, I asked them the same question.

One of the quad section leaders named a former instructor of ours who was actually more of an orchestral percussionist than a rudimental drummer.

That surprised everyone.

So I asked him why.

And he said:

“Well, because there’s no such thing as an open roll. You had to have been talking about buzz rolls, and his closed rolls were the best I’ve ever heard.”

And honestly, I just beamed with joy.

It took a decade, but the concept had truly clicked.

He sincerely understood it.

There’s no such thing as a roll.

There’s just rhythm and sticking.

Rule 11: Always Know the Relationship Between Your Hands and Your Feet

Doug Bush:
Rule 11 says: “Always know the relationship between your hands and your feet.”

Mr. Scheer, where is this applicable for young percussionists?

Zach Scheer:
From day one in percussion class.

The only caveat might be when I’m initially teaching rebound stroke mechanics. I may temporarily remove timing from the equation.

But if we are doing anything in time — which is at least 99% of what we do in beginning percussion — I want to see a clear demonstration that the student understands pulse.

The best way to demonstrate that understanding is with a foot tap.

We can argue about whether it’s heel up, toe down, whatever.

But the foot tap is essential.

It lets me see that students understand how the rhythms in their hands relate to the downbeat.

It’s fundamental.

I don’t think you can skip it.

If a student struggles with it, we need to stop and determine whether they truly understand the relationship or if they just haven’t mastered it yet.

If they don’t understand it, this becomes the priority.

Because if timing is number one, we can’t really demonstrate timing without understanding the relationship between our hands and feet.

Doug Bush:
Let’s say it’s the beginning of sixth grade percussion class, and only about 60% of the students can coordinate the foot tap while playing.

How do you handle that?

Zach Scheer:
First, I reassess my own instruction.

If only 60% of the class is getting it, that’s probably user error on my part.

I’m going to stop and work on that.

Actually, I shouldn’t even say “stop progress,” because this is progress.

What are we going to move on to that matters more than understanding the downbeat?

It’s foundational.

Doug Bush:
I’ve studied several martial arts over my life — Taekwondo, Kung Fu, Filipino martial arts, and now Kendo.

And universally, the very first thing you learn is footwork.

Every single system starts there.

If the foundation isn’t solid, nothing built on top of it matters.

That’s the same thing we see in percussion.

When I clinic a drumline, one of the first things I look at is how they move.

How uniform is the mark time?

How consistent is the posture?

You can immediately tell the level of the ensemble.

Patricia Islas:
I think this idea is often overlooked in front ensemble playing too.

I’ve seen many solo contest performances where students have clearly worked hard, but because they haven’t thought about foot placement or body positioning, they hit far more wrong notes than they should.

When you play an instrument like marimba that takes up a huge physical space, movement matters.

You have to learn how to shift your weight and position your body.

That’s something many younger players don’t naturally think about.

One of the best tools for teaching this is the mental run.

We’ve talked about it before on the podcast.

You mentally rehearse the movement.

You sing through the notes in your head while intentionally practicing the body movement.

“Now shift your weight to the right foot.”

“Now lift the left foot.”

You have to explicitly practice that coordination.

Zach Scheer:
And when you see a front ensemble that has worked on that, you instantly know.

The movement looks natural and unified.

Not choreographed — just efficient and connected.

One practical thing I’ve done with younger students is physically help them feel the pulse.

I’ve literally grabbed a student’s foot and moved it up and down in time.

Or lightly tapped their foot with a drumstick so they could physically feel where the beat is.

Some students naturally feel pulse.

Others need help locking into it.

I think in Player’s Guide we specifically address moments where there’s an eighth rest on the downbeat.

Students think they’re resting.

But they’re not.

Their foot is still producing the downbeat.

That understanding is huge.

Doug Bush:
A lot of people talk about this as “independence,” but really it’s dependence.

For example, if students are tapping the foot on downbeats while playing upbeats with their hands, they’re still playing all the eighth notes — just divided between different limbs.

And when students develop that understanding early, it helps later with timpani, drum set, marching percussion, and even posture.

Sometimes I’ll walk around the ensemble and simply check whether students are balanced evenly on both feet.

If all their weight is shifted onto one side, it changes their upper body posture and affects their playing.

The more awareness students have of their lower body, the more naturally all of this develops.

Doug Bush:
Hey friends, thanks for hanging out with us today.

If you have questions for the podcast, send them to TeamIslas@gmail.com.

Shoutout to all the great percussion companies that support Team Islas:

• Mapex
• Majestic Percussion
• Dynasty Percussion
• Remo Drumheads
• ProMark Sticks and Mallets
• Sabian Cymbals
• Beetle Percussion
• Lot Riot Apparel

These rules come from the book Master Hands, which can be found on the Team Islas website, Steve Weiss Music, Dallas Percussion, and many other percussion retailers.

And remember:

Step one is time.

Step two is sound.

And step three is subscribing to the Team Islas Podcast.