Bits and Boobs

S.2, Ep.3 WE BLINKED AND IT'S MAY?!.. An overdue catch up

• Dakota Middleby and Bianca Innes • Season 2 • Episode 3

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0:00 | 53:07

This week on Bits & Boobs, we’re doing something a little different; a proper catch up between the two of us.

We talk about life lately, slowing down after chaos, creativity, motherhood, work, treatment updates, survivorship, the hidden costs of cancer, body confidence after surgery, and the strange little griefs that come with trying to live a “normal” life after diagnosis.

A soft reminder that healing, surviving and living can all exist in the same breath.

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✨ Connect with us: @dakotamiddleby & @biancainnes

SPEAKER_01

Hi, I'm Bianca, and I'm Dakota. And we're two girls in our 20s that have experienced cancer.

SPEAKER_02

We're talking everything you don't find in the brochures. We're raw, we're brogue, and we're not afraid to share everything that cancer encompasses. Buckle up because we're really going there. Welcome to Bits and Boobs.

SPEAKER_01

Welcome back to Bits and Boobs. Guys, this is it feels like it's been a while. It has been a while. Welcome back. I know. And you know what's so funny is like us right now, borough, like we never usually have like a white, same background or like a white shirt as well.

SPEAKER_02

So it's kind of like I know. It's like we've unintentionally planned just to get the band back together.

SPEAKER_01

Oh god. What's happening? What's happening? God, a lot. I feel like this episode's probably gonna be a little bit different to our normal episodes of like our guests and discussing like all things cancer. I feel like it's gonna be a bit of like a mix of a catch-up, what's going on, and yeah, we're just gonna see and flow and yeah, I guess just catch up because you and I probably haven't really had a catch-up. I will be the first person to put my hands up and just say, literally, this year has been chaotic, and I don't know how we're already in May. And I feel like it's partly me that's just been so busy, but yeah, we'll get into that soon.

SPEAKER_02

No, that's just life, and honestly, it's like we've blinked and we're almost halfway through the year. So I think it's crazy, isn't it? And also, you just kind of it's felt like it went from Christmas, New Year's, and then it's gone January, February, March, April, May. Like so fast. And I'm like, all right, so I think kind of feels like things are calming down a little bit, trying to get our feet. Yeah, so today will be a bit of a different structure, but it's honestly just enjoy listening to the two of us catch up because we haven't had the chance to do it in so long. So, yes, enjoy hearing everything that's been going on.

SPEAKER_01

All right, where do we even start? I feel like, well, you know what? I was off for work for so long last year. Like, remember how much I felt like the podcast was essentially like my job because it was just more so like I was so wanting to work, and I just was so invested in the podcast and doing all things podcasts. And then when I got a job, I was like, oh my god, I felt like I was kind of making up for lost time with actually getting like a proper job. And I feel like I wasn't like I haven't been able to give the podcast the attention that it deserves. But work's just been busy and like going from, yeah, obviously not even working five days a week. I'm working four days a week and I'm only working a couple of days, but I feel like it's just it's almost like I feel like my mind has been so much because of how much time I had off, that in my mind I'm like, I've just got to go above and beyond and do all these things. And yeah, I can fully relate to that. Yeah, because you feel like you had so much time off that then you're just really appreciating being back at work, but putting so much time into it. But now that it's almost been three months in my new role, I'm like, okay, I need to remember that there is that work-life balance. And the reason I did purposely take off Mondays was to be able to have Mondays to work on the podcast, and I haven't been able to do that. And I think now is being able to like catch my breath and like really like note down things, like write down things that I want to speak about. And I'm like, okay, cool, let's actually really go back to like what makes me feel happy. And the reason we chose to have Mondays off is to be able to like give that energy to the podcast, and yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Anyway, that's like my I can completely relate with what you're saying there, but mine is in terms of if I'm to rest and relax, I find it so difficult to do that because I think Yankee, you spent so much time resting and relaxing and sleeping, like get the fuck up. Literally, and so I can I see what you like with that with work because it's kind of like, oh hold on, I've got to play catch up. Whether that is in terms of like financially, which you don't have to, but your that natural drive is there. Hustle more, make up for lost time. And then before you know it, it's like, hold on. I've had all this time to remind me what you're meant to do in life and slow down.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And I've just tried, I've just thrown myself into the hustle culture again, even though I've just been handed this ticket that gives me a very good reason to slow down. So it's funny, it's like that mental thing that we play with each other. So I totally get it. And I think that that will it'll work itself out with time. Like you get into your own rhythm with it.

SPEAKER_03

You do.

SPEAKER_02

And like, and also you've moved at the start of the year, like then you started a new job. You've had so much going on, and also you've then been commuting and going down to Melbourne at some points to do some office work. Like, that's a lot for anybody, let alone someone who is thriving alongside stage four cancer. So you've got to you gotta give yourself a little bit of credit there.

SPEAKER_01

So true. But you know what? I feel like I'm an all-in-all-nothing. Like I can't just you're like a fucking energizer bunny.

SPEAKER_02

Like, bro, slow down.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but that's the same with you and the boys as well.

SPEAKER_02

I feel like it feels like it's so much. Like it's it's in so many different ways. Like it's like I feel like I could say, I wish I could say to my kids, slow down. Let's just chill.

SPEAKER_01

Do you want to just tell everyone um while I'm remembering about this, what you captured in your house and you decided to grow and keep and nurture and realized it was um a different type of animal to what you thought.

SPEAKER_02

What? What one?

SPEAKER_01

You would you grow you found something in the garden and you decided to keep it in the house, like you you bought an animal insector? An insect?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, the caterpillar. Yeah. Oh, okay, yeah. This is like I had this fascination, everybody. Obviously. I was like so many people this. And like, I think it must have been a grief thing. Like, give me a break. But we had a lot of caterpillars around our house, and my four-year-old is super obsessed with bugs and like oh yucky. Anyway, so he was like, Oh, mum, a caterpillar. And I was like, Yeah, cool, let's put it in a container and see if it turns into a butterfly.

SPEAKER_01

When it could breathe, guys, it was one of those proper ones. We didn't, she didn't suffocate it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, like it was like I really, honestly, it was like my third child. I got so attached to this thing. And I'm like looking at it, I'm feeding it cucumbers, lettuce. This thing is living it up, organic. And I'm like looking at it, and it's changing shape and whatever, and I put it into Chat GPT. And turns out it wasn't like a butterfly caterpillar, it was a moth. So I was like, I loved it. I was so demo. I was, and I was like, I even went to the discount store and I like bought it at um butterfly enclosure, and I went out and chose the perfect stick for it to land and like make its little chrysalis, and then but this thing, I just had to get a cup of dirt and watched it wiggle down. And then, but I did get to use my butterfly enclosure because I put it on top and it fully hatched, and I had a moth, a bright yellow moth, and I got to release it with Matthew. So, although it was a little bit like strange niche hobby, I actually really recommend anyone doing it, even as an adult, because I'm gonna look, I'm gonna sell my point here. How many times as adults are we in wonder of something? Yeah. Like we actually nothing fucking shocks us anymore. So if you ever want to do an activity that actually like what is wonder for you or for your kids, your partner, whatever, I actually really recommend doing it because it was really cute. But I don't I don't have a caterpillar farm um currently growing. But I have started something else in the garden, if you guys would like to know. Yes, I would love to know. So flowers are really expensive, right? I love giving a gift of like something that you make or like you put thought into, whether it's like a letter or something. Yeah, and so anyway, I was like, flowers are expensive, I like giving gifts, like what could I do? What's something creative that I could watch grow? Because obviously it's a bit of a grief theme, watching things grow. Sorry guys. And so I got my partner to build me a massive garden bed, and I'm gonna start growing cut flowers and they're gonna, it's like massive, it's like four meters long. Oh my god. I'm gonna start growing all these flowers, and when I do that, like I can come down and give you fresh flowers every week and we can have a coffee. Like it's like a great way of connection because I'm gonna have this abundance of flowers and I get to give them to my girlfriends who get to enjoy them, feel my home, and then in that they feel appreciated. I feel appreciated because I get to catch up with them. Like it's just I think it's a really nice thing. So it's the art of yeah, I'm growing something which is really cool, and it's gonna be so colourful. So I'm actually gonna I'll take photos and we can put it on the Instagram.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, and like when you can start collecting random ribbons and stuff from thrift shops and like having each ribbon, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like really fun and it's low cost, like it's just and I have the space. So anyway, that's the creative thing that I'm doing. And obviously, growing is a theme. I love that.

SPEAKER_01

So, so fun. You go, girl. You inspire me to be more creative. I need more time to be creative.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I am I'm loving it. I really am loving it being creative at the moment.

SPEAKER_01

Good. And like that even falls into like, you know, you love your writing and stuff too. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

And actually, one more creative thing that I've done, I'm on a bit of a roll. Oh. Right? So kids' shoes, really expensive. Yep. Like, and the cool new balance ones are pretty much the same price as the adults. And like, sorry boys, but if we're gonna have some fly kicks, they're gonna be on my feet. Like, I'm not spending$160 on shoes for you that you're gonna grow out of. Is that what Matthew wants? Is he like, I want them ones? He is, and then I thought, ah, I'm gonna life hack this. So I went to Kmart and I bought a jupe pair of New Balance, plain, like beige sneakers, and I got him to choose four paint colours, and I've painted his sneakers.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, so fun.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so and I'm gonna do Enzo's as well, and that way, like I just thought like this year or this next like season of the year, I just want to, I'm big on like my mum made this for me, rather than like my mum went to the shops and and which is fine. I just I want to yeah, I just think that's really cool that he could say that I made it, and it's not perfect, and I've like it's you can tell, yeah, and you can tell like maybe that morning the kid stressed me out and I had too many coffees, like but it's all part of it, it's so good, and also like it's something like a little creative outlet for you, but then also something that the boys are like, Cool, my mum made this, you know. Yeah, and they get to be involved in like choosing the colours and like all that sort of stuff. So, another, yeah, creative recommendation just start using your hands. I love that, yes. So I want you to give me an update what the hell is going on in the world of treatment for you. We haven't even spoken. I know we said today we didn't want it to be like a big cancer thing, and it's it's literally just to catch up, and I have no idea what's going on. So I'm sure the listeners would love to know too.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, what's been going on? It's so funny because so many, like some not so many, but a couple of people like randomly message me and they always go, like, oh, what treatment are you on? Because like your hair gets to grow and things like that. And it's funny because I feel like it would be quite weird seeing someone that is going through treatment and having hair and whatnot as well. But anyway, I don't know if I've ever given anyone the update of the treatment, but it is called TDMX and it is a targeted therapy, so it's a chemo, but it's a targeted chemo that is not as hectic, I would say, as a normal chemotherapy. So essentially, you know, when you had you were on your normal like red devil chemo and the other like more hectic ones, and they say, you know, you can't have fish, or you know, if you if someone's sick, you have to really stay away from them. Like, so for example, with this one, they're not as strict about that. Like, you're allowed to eat raw fish, you don't have to kind of pretend that you're pregnant or anything like that. Obviously, if you got sick, it would probably be a bit harder to recover, but you're not like prone to getting sick. And you know what? Touch wood. This desk at my mum's is actually wood. Um, but even then. And hope it's clean. Hope it's clean. Disclean, this clean, this clean. But not once in the last, like, you know, 16 months since this has all happened, have I ever gotten sick, which is actually wild. That's incredible. Never gotten flu, nothing at all. Anyway, but what's going on in the world of treatment now? So this treatment is every three weeks, and we are now at a new hospital. So since I moved to the Gold Coast, it's been a wild ride. But we first I know. Well, when we first wanted to come back up here, it was kind of just like, okay, let's get in anywhere. Where's known? When we first moved to northern New South Wales, we decided to go up to the Gold Coast University Hospital, and it was going to be twice every three weeks because you weren't able to have your same day appointment. We did it the one time, and I was like, oh, I don't know. And then I realized I was a lot closer to the other hospital in northern New South Wales, so I decided to go to that hospital instead, and I've since done three treatments there. And it's a new hospital, don't get me wrong, it's really nice. Um, and it's so convenient for us, it's super close. You don't have to like worry about leaving so early and there wouldn't be like hectic traffic and stuff either. Yeah, it's so easy, like it's super, super easy. And I loved that aspect of it, of the convenience side of things, but with the oncologist that I was seeing, I think she was a general oncologist. I don't think she was specialized in the area. And when we yes, and when we first went to the Gold Quest University Hospital, I really liked the doctor that I saw, and I felt like he was really specialized in his area, and I just felt like I got a really good vibe. And the only reason I we stopped like going there and changing was because of the distance. Anyway, only as of recently, I was like, hang on a minute, Dakota, you do have stage four. At any point, things can change. I think, you know, over convenience, it's probably better to go somewhere that is specialised. So we decided to go back to the Gold Coast University Hospital. So now I've swapped hospitals three times. Oh, that's all right. Yep. It's fine, it's fine. So my next treatment will be with the um Gold Coast University Hospital. And even the other day, like you had to kind of go back there to get back in the system because they let you go the first time and you have to kind of go back. And like soon as I left on the other day, I was just felt good vibes. I'm like, I'm in such good fucking hands here. And I knew I made the right decision. I'm like, who cares that we have to drive, you know, that distance? And they were so nice, they were even like, look, we might even be able to get you a same-day appointment because of the distance. Like it was like it was almost like, yes, even though it was public, even like it felt like they were still very accommodating. Yeah, above and beyond. And yeah, it's just, and even like with the um other hospital that I was going to, it's like been so expensive. Like I thought going public meant that you know, a lot of things what you didn't have to pay for. Like, obviously, everyone knows how expensive our last year was being private and doing all the surgeries and whatnot. But now going public, I was like, I thought there would be a lot of things like lifted and not have to pay. So was there not? Well, every time I was in the chair for the last three sessions at this um public hospital, it's the medication you have to pay$25 for the tablet that is supposed to last three days for nausea, which is called a Kensio. It actually doesn't really last three days. And I questioned it the other day and was like, oh, I'm just curious why um because I got a bill for$75. And I was like, Oh, I didn't realize it was$25 each time. And they're like, Oh yeah, it's actually usually$90, but you know, you only pay$25. And I was like, that just does not make sense to me. And I just thought all the like, it's really sad, like, you know, for the people that may not even be able to afford that. That's only like half of the things, not even half the things we have to pay for. You know, you gotta pay for your hospital parking, you gotta pay for this, you gotta pay for that. Like, there's all these like still undercover costs and things like that. And it's just like, you know, it is a bit sad for someone like that is stage four that literally that is what happens for the facile of course.

SPEAKER_02

Of course, you don't have a chance, you don't have a choice. I think what would be really cool for us to explore, and it would obviously benefit you, but I'm sure there is so many different little supports through the public sector that not a lot of people know about that are available to them. Um, so like I'm I'm almost certain that Gold Coast University Hospital has something for cancer patients with their parking. So let's look into that. So like little things like that that isn't really advertised because again, you don't know about it until you're in the club.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. But and it's that's only like$11.50, but at the same time, when we pay it adds up every single time, like you've got that, and then you've got, you know, like all the other things, like even trying to, which I'll go into after about like, you know, trying to detox this Zolodex out of my system, like and doing all these like natural things. Like it feels like it's just never ending, you know. Your heart scan you've got to do every three months. And that one's expensive. That one is like almost$400. And then, you know, all the other scans, like I don't think anyone realizes, but it's just it's so chaotic, like we don't have a choice, but we actually do have to do these things, you know.

SPEAKER_02

So like and that's why so many people have to do GoFundMe's and everything, because and which is amazing. I mean, you had an incredible encryption. That's what we use that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But imagine if you didn't have that to dip into. I mean exactly. You guys are young, you're 30. Well, Alex is 31 now, but you know, it's that's a lot. That's a lot of strain and a lot of pressure. And if people, you know, have kids and they're working, that's the added amount of pressure would just be unbelievable. So yeah, let's really look into that because um I think that that could really benefit you and a lot of other people.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, 100%. Yeah, it's crazy. Like that's and it's it's so annoying that you think about those money side of things, and like it is like, you know, that's the stress. That's what that GoFundMe Medical account is for, and we've always like that's the only thing we use that for. It's a separate account to everything else, and it's a separate card we use for those things. But I'm just like, it still breaks your heart a bit because it's just like, you know, if forever, you know, if a treatment stops working and you have to, you know, I have to go to Mexico straight away, you like you like trying to save this money because you're like, well, fuck, what if I need that one day? But you're like, no, this is what the medical's for. But it's like it's such a weird mindset that you kind of get yourself into, which is interesting.

SPEAKER_02

And how are you feeling every three weeks with the treatment?

SPEAKER_01

I feel like I've got my sickness thing down pat now, which is really good. Um, it's like having the right medication to make me not feel as sick, which is good. And I feel like I'm not as down and out, but it's like then that also comes with the cost of, you know, I put all this hard work in for the gym to try and feel good and feel better about my body, but then you have that week where like you feel like a puff of fish, and then everything is like you go 10 steps forward at the gym only to go 10 steps back, and it's not like an appearance thing, it's more so feeling good in your body. But you guys, I'm getting married in less than a year, and obviously you're working on the gym because you want to feel your best and like be my first person to put the hand up and be like, Yeah, I know that sounds so fucking superficial, but it's like sometimes it's so frustrating. You're allowed to be putting all this work in, and then you do chemo, and then you end up feeling so large and in charge, and it's like, ugh, so it's like a whole nother thing, but anyway.

SPEAKER_02

Well, that's like when I was uh I had completed treatment, I was cancer free. Oh my god, you like I remember I could yeah, honestly, unrecognizable because of the amount of steroids that I was I had during treatment. I just ballooned. Like yeah, so and it wasn't because I was sitting there scoffing my face, it was that it didn't matter what I did. I like after I'd finished treatment, I was still on the Zolodex, I hired a personal trainer and I was training, I was paying five days a week practically eating lettuce rabbit food.

SPEAKER_03

Really?

SPEAKER_02

And trying all these different types of diets, intermittent fasting, blah, blah, blah. And nothing was working. But I didn't realize that I was, you know, I couldn't really fight against the Zolodex. Like we were going like this, and my body, I just I couldn't, it wasn't reacting well with me. So as soon as I was able to come off of that, like I just felt a lot better. But that puffiness and that swollen, like, and there's nothing you can do because your body's just holding like weight retent water retention.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And you feel like your size just goes up so like even like putting a pair of jeans on, I'm like, that didn't feel like that last week. And you're like, I haven't done anything different with my eating, and you have to remember, you're like, okay, it is because of these things, like you said, like with the diligence stereo.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. Like, and unfortunately, and that's what like I found dressing in that season so difficult because you like, what do you wear? Because I would put jeans on and I just felt like I went off the side. So annoying. Like, and I was like, well, okay, so how'd this is how I dressed before, and now it's not working, so like what the fuck am I meant to wear? So yeah, and it's just also like it's it's the cliche thing, but you've got to remember to be kind to yourself.

SPEAKER_01

I know, and you know what, we're like the only ones that notice it, and that's why Alex will always say to me, He's like, Where? What are you looking at? And I'm like, it's hard to explain, but it's just something that I feel within myself, and I know like I might feel different, but it is a feeling, and that's like that feeling is like not a nice feeling. You just don't feel good within your body, you know. Like, and you also like you get constipated, and then you know, there's just a bloated belly, like there's just so many things.

SPEAKER_02

So many different things. And how are you feeling? Sorry, you go. Yeah. No, you go, you say what you go.

SPEAKER_01

I was gonna say, and the homeopath um and like the homeopathic stuff that I'm doing at the moment, and that's like a whole yeah, what is that?

SPEAKER_02

Talk to me. So is it not a naturopath, a homeopath?

SPEAKER_01

So they're different. So it's a homeopath. I'm speaking to a beautiful lady, um, and we're trying to bring my period back at the moment. We've been on a bit of a like working in the right direction for it for a little while now, except it hasn't fully worked yet. So actually, only on Monday this week I started my detox for the Zolodex, and it's like a massive process. So it's like what so it goes for eight weeks. So like week one and two, there's like a certain amount that you take like of the homeopathic remedies, the natural remedies, and then the um week three and four, it like increases a little bit of a dosage, but you have to put it under your tongue, it dissolves, and it's like Monday is one thing, then you have a break Tuesday, and then Wednesday is another thing. But like it's a whole other thing, it's not like I can just set up my medical tray of like Monday to Sunday, which I usually do, right? With everything else that I've got to take, but this one's different because it has to be you have to wait a certain amount after you've eaten food. So it's not just like a trying to bring your period back of like that. It's more so like a very mind to matter thing where I'm like, okay, I'm actually having to genuinely think about these things right now. And you're having to be mindful, mindful, and it's very energetic as well. Like you can't just think that these tablets are gonna work because it's the natural stuff, it's very much like an energetic of like, okay, cool, this is gonna bring my period back. And I know a lot of people probably think, why are you trying to bring your period back? But there is a lot of different reasons. Like, yes, obviously at some stage I would lack a child, whether that happens or not, but it's more so just actually wanting my period back to know that my body's functioning in a normal way. And I know that sounds so weird, but I'm like, I just want to bleed because then I know that my body is working the way that it's supposed to. And like I stopped taking back online. It's January and we're in May, and I still don't have a period. Anyway, this between now and eight weeks' time, if my period comes back, we will be bringing this beautiful lady on the podcast. She said she's on the podcast and she wants to, you know, be able to help other people if she can help me. But um, yeah, she's like, let's bring your period back first, and then I'll come in. Yes, like she's really confident in that. And she's like a bit of a celebrity in well, her dad was a bit of a celebrity in the homeopathic area, and she's done a lot of podcasts. And there's a lady, one of my friends is actually studying, and she was just like, I can't even believe that you got an appointment with her. Like she's so smart, so amazing. I record all of our notes like that we take down just because like she's just anyway, she's so knowledgeable. Yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02

Wow. And so do they does she think that with having the chemo every three weeks, it will that not be having an effect?

SPEAKER_01

No, so that's the thing, and that's what I love about her, is she because when I first told her, which I don't know if I've said this out loud on the podcast, and just before I do say this, guys, I know everyone has their own opinion, and I'm not like everyone can feel the way that they want to feel about these certain situations. But do you remember, Bianca, for a while I was saying to you that I was thinking about when I got to NED that I was going to come off the chemo and I was going to give myself a little bit of a break, and I was kind of going to trust that that was the case, and then only recently I've kind of changed my mind, and I guess in a way, which again, very superficial of me, but the type of chemo that I'm on obviously doesn't affect my hair. If, for example, I got NED and I was like, la de da di-da, got off the medication, and then say, for example, it then goes to the next spot, which would be your liver or your lungs, and then I had to try another new chemo, I would go through that whole thing of losing my hair. I would be then become traumatizing yourself. I would then become that cancer patient again. And that is like why I've kind of thought, you know what, I think for a little bit, let's just see how we go. And she is so happy to work with me being on it.

SPEAKER_02

She goes incredible. Yeah. I love someone that's worked for the Eastern and Western medicine, like coincide rather than them loggerheading and being like, well, this is bad, this is bad, hold on. Like, let's kind of see how we can all work together cohesively because ultimately we all want the same outcome. Everyone wants Dakota to be well.

SPEAKER_01

So how can we work together to do that? Exactly. And like, even like, remember the doxy that I was taking for my well, I still am taking it, but I'm now on like a really low dose for the acne. So every time I take my doxy, there's a homeopathic natural remedy, and I take two of these doxy detoxes under my tongue as soon as I have my normal medicated doxy. So it's like lets the doxy still work, but it also gets rid of the bad side effects that comes with that, and we're slowly weaning off the doxy altogether. Oh my god, I went from being on like 100 milligrams down to 50, and now I'm taking it every third day other than rather than every first day. I mean, every um day, yeah. So like she's just skin's been looking amazing. Literally the same thing. Like it's just like incredible. So anyway. Wow, that's awesome. You know, yes.

SPEAKER_02

Well, let's all keep our eyes peeled. I know for Dakota's period. Yes, I can't wait. Which is so creamy. Oh god, exciting stuff over here at Bits and Boobs, tell you what.

SPEAKER_01

I know. Well, anyway, talk to me about. I remember we were talking about offline, you're talking about exploring like survivorship and things like that. I'd love to hear more.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, well, um, Claire, who you had as a guest um when I was having some time off on, she shared this incredible post, which really sparked a thought that I probably hadn't visited in a while. And it was on survivorship and how the although when you receive the all clear, it's incredible, and you're met with flowers and champagne and all these things and well wishes, and everyone thinks, like, wow, you're so strong, like you're through it, and now you're just normal. And what isn't spoken about enough is the duality of obviously being so grateful to be alive, but you've just also gone through one of the most traumatic things that anyone can ever go through. Yeah. And you're expected to reintegrate into life as if you were the person before you were told that you had cancer. So I really wanted to explore kind of that that transitional after period of survivorship because it's not it isn't, you know, a certain timeline. It's a continual thing. Whether you are a cancer survivor of one year or you're a cancer survivor of 10, 20, 30 years, there is always the lingering in the background of will this come back? Scan anxiety, yep. And anxiety, all these different things. And my experience, you know, of of survivorship was really difficult for me because I was reintegrating as a 21-year-old. Yeah. And I it was really, really difficult. So I struggled with that. But this post that Claire shared, it was talking about survivorship in motherhood. And it prompted me to have a conversation with her. And it was talking where she was mentioning things that I really hadn't even considered, which makes me want to explore it more. And she was talking of the guilt that she has now in motherhood for time missed. And I thought, wow, that is a very interesting perspective, and I wouldn't have I wouldn't have even considered that. And the fact that Claire is having these thoughts and feelings, I can almost bet my bottom dollar that every other woman exactly. And I I don't I want people to feel seen throughout the entire cancer process. I hate it being a journey. I hate that word. I know. There should be a better word, but there it for them for what is cancer, because there's, you know, from the moment you're diagnosed to all the way through whether you're continuing to fight, whether you've received the all clear, and then it comes back. It's there's so many different facets of it. And I want people to feel like they've got someone beside them or holding their hand during all phases, which is what I think they're doing so beautifully with the podcast in highlighting, you know, what to do and what to look for and everything. And there just hasn't, there was nothing out there again when I was going through it because I was 21. Yeah. And then having that conversation with Claire was honestly more pivotal than she really will actually understand.

SPEAKER_01

We need to get her back on for an update too. Such a different situation to when w we were first speaking to her. She hadn't even had her surgery or anything yet. So we should Oh yes, let's absolutely get we'll rally to get Claire back on.

SPEAKER_02

We love you, Claire. Um, but yeah, so that's kind of I'm wanting to explore survivorship. So I want to do in today's like episode a bit of a call out. If anyone is in that season of cancer being survivorship, I would love for you, if you're open to it, just flick me a message and kind of give me a few dot points that you have struggled with or you do find that maybe aren't spoken about as much. Because yeah, I'm just brainstorming for something really exciting in the future. And I want it to be a really collaborative effort because it can so so often at the time feel like you're on this really lonely island, even though there's so many people around you who or that you know of or see that have cancer, when you're going through it, like it's you and you in there. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I really that's my next kind of project, I guess, creativity again that I'm working on. But I love it. I'm watching space.

SPEAKER_01

Watch this space. I always knew you'd do something within writing, though, just because I feel like you're you're very more accelerated in the literary area than I am. I feel like I always learn big words from you where I'm like, hang on, what does that mean again?

SPEAKER_02

It's always good to use just throw in a random word. I love it. And then just start, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know what's so funny as well, like a little bit like TMI, and this is probably more for a psychologist. And Alex and I had this conversation the other night when we'd had a couple of drinks, and I that's another thing I want to talk about as well. Um, but it was more so we were saying the other day, I feel like, you know, there's a lot of things that are unspoken about, and like I feel like I don't speak about these things enough, but it is kind of going off saying about the survivorship stuff, is you know, even for example, my mum and I go into Bali in two weeks' time. How good would that be? I know I'm so excited, but there's little things where it's like, you know, I used to think to myself, you know, I'd love to live overseas at some point, and you know, I'm not saying that's Bali, but like at some point there was, you know, Amsterdam that Alex and I were thinking about, and there's things that I don't really speak about, but it's like these those things as well is a part of like things that got taken away that like, you know, it you know, I and even like trying to get travel insurance to go to Bali, for example, you know, would be impossible almost. Well, like that's the thing because it's like you've got this pre-existing condition, and this that's that's another thing, like we were talking about the other night. It's like there's all these little things that like, yes, you know, we always harp on about living our life and still getting on with it and still, you know, trying to go about things in a normal way, but like there is like those little things that do kind of eat up at you where you're like, okay, cool. Well, I don't ever get to really live overseas because how the fuck am I ever going to be able to do treatment every three weeks? Or it's like, you know, how would I ever be able to do this or how would I be able to do that? Like, there's those things that you're talking about. That's a grief of the future that you thought you were gonna have. Yes, but this is like things that you're talking about is like would be really helpful for people that, yeah, are at that stage four that don't really talk about it, still try and get along with their life, but need that kind of ongoing, like, you know, support. And I think that is like, yeah, definitely something I need to find.

SPEAKER_02

But I don't think the term survivorship, I don't think that necessarily rules out anyone who's fighting stage four. Because in that, like, I wouldn't, and this I wouldn't say that you're just surviving it. Like you are working, you're contributing to society, you have a social life, you work out, you have hobbies, but in amongst all that, you're still juggling those feelings. Yeah. And that and that's in the background. So that is that's still surviving because it's you're it's a tr and it's another transitional period. Yeah. Because rather than having, you know, your appointments every week that you had to go and you had to do this and this and this, it was all regimented. Now it's kind of like spaced out a bit. Yeah. And you know, okay, like I'm good these times, and then this time I'm not feeling great. And you've got to now juggle that. That's another reintegration into real life because you're well enough to be able to go out into society, but you're not the same person that you were before. So it I think it's still my point being, I think it still is a form of survivorship.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. And also like having like hair and stuff again now, it's so nice for me to be able to leave the house. And like, you know, I went to a wedding on the weekend. Not once does anyone think or know what I'm going through because people just assume, you know, you're not the cancer girl. Yeah. Exactly. And like that's another thing is like when I was talking to you about like, you know, I'm a little bit disappointed in myself, but you know, I did five and a half months, no drinking, and I was so proud of myself, and I did it for no one else but myself, just to kind of be like, you know what, I'm gonna prove to myself I can get through the Christmas period without drinking. Rolls around to my 30th birthday, and you know, had a couple of drinks, but then it's been like, you know, now I'm not saying it's been every weekend, but like I've had, you know, drinks and there's things that were on my hobby, yeah. It's like a head. And then I'm like, I'm so disappointed in myself because one, yes, I shouldn't be doing that because I know that, you know, this is my situation. People probably look at me and think, like, what are you doing, doll? But then at the same time, you know, someone's life can end at any moment. And it's like, okay, I'm gonna do what I want to do. But then anyway, I told myself, I think the reason I'm saying this out loud is to also hold myself accountable again. Like, because I did five and a half months, and then starting from the first of May, is I'm going back to that. And I had so much fun and I can do things, you know, without drinking, and I'm going to go back to that. But that was the thing that was hanging over my head, you know. It's like people think, what the hell are you doing, girl? You got stage four cancer, and you think in this in this having trouble dressed.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, like in the same breath, if anyone I would really urge to challenge anyone that says that, and I will stand ten toes now with them.

SPEAKER_01

Like, someone say that to me and ask me.

SPEAKER_02

Like, I will send literally, I'll stand ten toes tall with them, and then you let me know, buddy, who's Ted from accounts, I would love you to be fighting stage four cancer and let me know if you don't need a fucking beer. Like, are you joking? So, in saying that, I understand that you wanted you, you know, that was something that you were really proud of, but also sometimes you gotta let the rains out and enjoy life. Because if anyone knows that life is for enjoyment, it should be you.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So please, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So if anyone says that to you, you let them know. You let me know.

SPEAKER_01

If anyone can tell, I think I need to speak to a psychologist about these things. So if there's anyone listening that has a really good one that feels like I might be able to do some venting too, I would love their details because I'm yet to find someone.

SPEAKER_02

And I think I do need to do this, someone and I yeah, and it's probably, you know, in because you're now in that more drawn-out phase, like you are reintegrating, that you're like, oh, hold on, let's just reevaluate what the fuck has just happened the last 12 months. Yeah, yeah. And like maybe we need to talk about this. So yes, any wrecks out there, because it is so hard, it's like dating.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, remember you left yours for a little bit and then you didn't.

SPEAKER_02

It's like And then I didn't, and it's like Yeah, it's like you're pretty much breaking up with them. But I think that it's really like you've got to find what fits, and that sucks because it's so expensive. Like I would just like to meet my match, meet my yes, meet my soulmate of a psychologist, and we can just skip off into the sunset talking about my trauma.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, how good with that beta. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02

Like that that's actually a perfect love story for me.

SPEAKER_01

But you have to start from the root causes, and that's the thing that they're gonna do. And that's what set me back.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Because I'm like, oh, okay, like let's talk about all the really heavy stuff. And then it just makes you then I was feeling heavy and yucky, and feeling like that with two little boys, like it isn't fair on them, it isn't fair on me. And so I think that's obviously why I'm throwing myself into all this creative stuff because I didn't find the right fit. And financially, it's not something that I'm willing to just throw a heap of cash at until I do find the right person.

SPEAKER_01

And how it's hard because it's almost like you have to like test the waters with them to find that right person.

SPEAKER_02

So it's like how do you even find it and a lot of the time the first like two appointments are like admin. Yes, I I completely agree. Which I hate. Like, I would love if before I go to my appointment, you can send me all this pre-screening shit. I'm happy to sit down at night, go through it, and send them away. And they can ask you about and then they can be like, oh, I've noticed this. Let's talk about that, but everything else, like all pretty standard, let's get into the session.

SPEAKER_00

Not like okay, what did you do when you were eight years on on the 4th of November in 2026? Yeah. Like I mean, 2006. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like, what? How old are you? Well, you know what I mean though, seriously. No, yeah, but it's just like really frustrating. So I understand, and I understand your apprehension with it too, because you've been down in Melbourne, then you've come up north, and it's like change hospitals, like it's hard. It is really hard.

SPEAKER_01

So hard. Did I tell you I want to get my other boob done, by the way? No. I'm thinking about it, and I did have a meeting on. Would you go down back to the same chip? Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say, like, her work was amazing. Oh, I loved my boobs, like I love my boobs so much. But it's like I think I've been thinking about it in two ways because every person I speak to, like in the medical world, is like there's literally no point getting the other side done. But then in my mind, it's like first, I'm thinking, okay, I don't have to then worry when I get a scan that anything would be there because not only would I like get this side like because she said, Oh, you can get it lifted if you want. And I'm like, No, I would do the full massectomy and the reconstruction exactly the same as what I did to the other, because then I'm not thinking about having to-what if over your head. And also, like, you know, after a while now looking in the mirror, like my boobs are completely different, and it is definitely a little bit of a confidence play within myself, and I feel like, yeah, aesthetically, that's kind of something that does bother me a little bit now. It didn't used to, but I'm like, oh, you know what? I want to feel the most confident in myself, and I also don't have to worry about that. Anyway, I did have a meeting with them because now that I also got my port on this. Yes, how are you finding it? Well, yeah, have you seen it? Yeah, I saw it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, well, yeah, now that I've got the port, I forgot to ask them on the phone if that would make a difference doing the massectomy and the reconstruction. So since Monday I emailed them and I had to. I don't think it would.

SPEAKER_02

Well, this is what I was thinking. Like pretty much, like a lot of people get ports put in at the start of their treatment.

SPEAKER_01

So And then they still have to get like if they want to get a massectomy or whatever.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, whether it means that they they remove it, they take the the actual device out and then put it back in or something. And put it back in. Like maybe they have to do that, but it's easy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I'm only gonna do it if it's like obviously around a certain amount of money, but I know the reason why the other one was so expensive is because they removed all the nodes. And I did ask her, I'm like, Do you think it'll be as expensive? She's like, No way, it's not gonna be nearly as big of a surgery because so it was very thorough, like you were in for under for so long. So long. And then Alex was saying to me, he's like, you know, like it just worries me.

SPEAKER_02

Like sorry, we had to pause there. My dogs started last year. Um, yeah, you were saying that Alex had concerns. What was his concerns about you having another surgery?

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, he just didn't really seem that psyched on the whole idea. And I just said to him, I was like, Do you not want me to do it? And he was just like, Oh, he's like, No, like, you know, it's not even like financially about that, it's more so just like thinking about you going under and how hectic it was last time. And yeah, I don't know, maybe I did block it out a bit, and like I did do a little bit of reflecting recently, and I was like, I remember it was a really hard time, and those two drains that I had, do you remember when they weren't draining properly and I had to have them in for like two weeks? Yeah, like I do look back at those things and I'm like, oh my god, that was a really wild time, but I just feel like it won't be as hectic. Like at that time, I was on a really hectic chemo. Maybe. Body wasn't really, you know.

SPEAKER_02

It was already ripped down to what's like pretty much bare bones and wise and like exhaustion. And also I think it's probably a little bit of a a shift in that the first time you were going into it, you didn't know what the recovery was going to be like. You didn't know what was at the end of it. Now you do. And then you do not be as bad, but you know what would be outcoming potentially. And you all but then you also can tangibly see the outcome and you're like, okay, well, that's what I'm working towards. So stuff it. Because ultimately, I would imagine that your confidence and the way that you feel about yourself will help you and make you feel stronger when you are ready to face those things. Yeah, exactly. Even though it it is just, you know, people will say, Oh, they're just tids. That's fine. But it's kind of what it more symbolizes for you as a woman. I think.

SPEAKER_01

Is that right in saying that? It is, it is. And like, I don't know, it's just like you just look in the mirror and you're just like, oh, it's so hard to wear certain things because it is two different things. And I've always been the type of person to really never be a showy person, even well before the last year and all this stuff happened. But it's just like I even still find it hard when I am like, I used to just not be able to like wear a bra under a t-shirt. And like you just can't do that these days because it is so different. So there's just little things, and I'm like, I just think it'll make my life feel a little bit easier, you know?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, of course. And you know what? You're doing it for you. Exactly. You know, and that if that makes you feel happy, then that's the main thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And we'll then you just know how to deal with the drains and shit now.

SPEAKER_01

So you kind of exactly, you know what, and then you already got the run through. We got the run through. So anyway, we'll stay posted with that. But um yes.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Oh my goodness, so this is so random. But um my son Matthew, he is. I put it in the notes, and you probably were like, what is this? I just like I I hate listening to new music. Like, I don't listen to it at all. I like old music. Yeah. And Matthew loves like monsters and he watches goosebumps. Do you remember the goosebumps books? Yes. So he watches like the old like 90s episodes on YouTube of like goosebumps and whatever. So he loves all of that. And one day I was thinking, oh my goodness, he's never seen Thriller, Michael Jackson's thriller. He's going to lose his mind. And the thing with Michael Jackson is at that the time of Thriller, Bad, Smooth Criminal, all that, he wasn't just making music videos, he was like making mini films. So it's like an I think it's like a nine-minute film about zombies and monsters and thriller. And he loves music. So he was dancing and singing and just loves it. Anyway, now all we listen to is Michael Jackson, obviously.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, I'm going to the movie tomorrow night, by the way. I took him to the movie. Well, did you take him? Did he love it?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, and he loved it. And he does like his little he like gets up on his toes. Yeah, he does. And it was so cute. And it was actually like I think the season of like really young kids, while it's so beautiful and cute, and all the things, it's relentless. And sometimes you just don't really get a lot back in terms of like you feel like you've run you've done such a big day, and then you've made them this like really yummy dinner, and then they're like, I hate it. You're like, oh, it can be like a bit thankless, and or they just like throw it and the dogs eat it, and the dogs already had dinner. It's like annoying, you know? So things like that. But now that he's four, he's like my little buddy. So we got to go to the cinema and like he had his recliner, and he just like it was so good. And he was like looking around at the cinema just in awe, and we got popcorn and a chock top, and it was that moment that I was like, Oh, this is so cool, because you're gonna remember this for the rest of your life, and I'm gonna remember this.

SPEAKER_01

As like having a little human, yeah, and like a cool little mate, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It was just like a really different milestone that I probably hadn't felt like I'd reached yet in motherhood. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, it was just, and then I was like, the movie starts, and he's like sitting there and he's singing, and I just started crying because I was like, oh, this is so cool. Like I love why we're obsessed now. Yeah, and like I love Michael Jackson music when I was younger, and now he loves it, and it's just yeah, it's really wholesome and cute.

SPEAKER_01

So special, so so special.

SPEAKER_02

So you love the movie because you loved the um music. You went to the Broadway, didn't you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, I loved that. So we're gonna see the movie tomorrow. You know what is so funny. I'm gonna send you this thing from I'm gonna write it down that what reminds me of um Matthew when you were saying this. There's this little kid, and oh my god, there's a video, and he's Parents for Christmas, buy him like this red suit, and this little boy like starts doing thriller and like this red leather suit, and like he's like slapping like the side of his leg and just like doing like the moves, but I'm gonna send it to you.

SPEAKER_02

And I reckon so funny that he said that because I said to him, I said, Oh, he's got like these little Adidas gazelle sneakers, and they're like blue and bright green, and he calls them his Michael Jackson shoes because they're just like a bit funky. Oh my god, bless his cotton socks, like so cute. And then I said, Oh, so what do you want to wear to the movie? And this is a couple days before. And he said, Oh mum, I would really like a suit, but the suit has to be one size too small. Why would I tie it? He said, like Michael Jackson, Michael Jackson's he goes, his suit come up just before his ankles. And I was like, shit, you are cool, kid. Like so eclectic and funky, and no, I'm not getting you a suit to see the movie. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01

You're getting too out of the movie, and that's that was some popcorn.

SPEAKER_02

But I tell you what, the movies are expensive.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, so expensive for one ticket.

SPEAKER_02

It's$91 for the two of us to go, which I don't mind doing, like it's fine. But it was$91 for two tickets, a small popcorn, and one chock mint um choc top.

SPEAKER_01

It's crazy how expensive it's and what it you should it you really should be cheaper for kids to be able to go to the movies, surely.

SPEAKER_02

Surely. And I didn't even get to see the full movie. Like, I left about 20 minutes before it finished because he was just getting feral, which is fine. But I thought, wow, like for such I had such a positive and fun experience, but there would be so many people that that just like that's not even an option to do because it's so expensive. No, yeah, and like cheap Tuesday, but Tuesdays you're at work, yeah. And all the kids are at school or whatever, so you can't really make that work. Yeah. So anyway, it was really fun.

SPEAKER_01

We love it. So good.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, it's just like they don't make music like that anymore. No, they don't. I love Dirty Diana, that's one of my favourites. It's a classic. Seriously, I'm notorious for driving down the M1 as of like the last two weeks. And cranking it with all with all my windows open and just feeling that bad at all.

SPEAKER_03

I love that.

SPEAKER_02

Look at the jar. Oh, it's been so good. It's just been like a proper yarn. It's been the best. Guys, I really like this format. So um let us know if you like it too, if this more kind of conversational. Yeah. I think it'd be good to kind of chuck these in the mix as well as our interviews. And if there's anyone actually that anyone has been wanting to hear from, can you send us their profile? We would really love to kind of go into more guest work as well, which would be cool.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. And yeah, we'll definitely see get a bit of an update from Claire because everyone loved that episode. It's such a great thing. She's free, she's been doing her renovations in the meantime. I see on TikTok as well, which is amazing. Seriously, she's a powerhouse. I know, honestly. And her hair, I'm like, how does yours grow so fast? Because mine was not growing that quickly as yours.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, it is now, but oh my god, her hair's getting like really there. Isn't it crazy? And also, there's so many different like hair tonics and shit that you can put in your hand. I know. And like red, have you been putting red light on your head?

SPEAKER_01

No, but I've been using my buff. I love my boof.

SPEAKER_02

Do you? Does it work? Yeah, so good. I think that I think so. It's always sold out at priceline whenever I go, so it must be the thing. But I hate that I can never get it. Yeah, because it's expensive.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and that's like two.

SPEAKER_02

No, it's like$36 or something. But when you're using it all the day every day, yeah. And you're not using like one or two drops. No, no, you I do like we could keep yarning all night.

SPEAKER_01

Yarno, anyway. All right. Well, love your lots, love your lots, and thanks for listening, guys. And happy Monday by the time this comes out. Yes, happy Monday. Bye, guys. Bye.