Episode 2: Growth, Vulnerability,& Balancing Life (1 of 3)

Transcript

0:03

Welcome to Beyond Our Surface with Jeff Huber. In this inaugural episode, we meet Doug Hoveland, Dr. Nick Schmoke and Bob Boyle. We'll explore their diverse backgrounds, passions, and how they balance life, work, and family. Join us as we uncover their stories from their roots in Michigan and Denver to transformative experiences abroad. And the significant roles of sports, mentorship and music in shaping their lives. In this three part series, growth, vulnerability, and Balancing Life, we explore the formative experiences that sculpt who we are. We delve into the profound impact of upbringing, mentorship, and initial life steps on individuals from diverse paths, from Michigan to Denver to Barcelona. We will uncover how transitions in these new cities and the influence of sports, family, and early mentorship helped develop their character and explore the intricate balance of career and family in those formative years. Stay with us as we unpack the often unseen blueprints of our past, their connection to our present and the early lessons that continue to resonate.

Jeffhuber4-14 1:13

Gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. This is extremely exciting. This is the maiden voyage of Beyond Our Surface. Uh, this is, uh, just an incredible passion project of mine. So I'm really honored that you're all here. I'd like to dive right in and introduce our guests, starting with, uh, Bob, and then moving around the room. So tell us, Bob where you're from and where did you grow up?

1:40

Grew up in Michigan. Uh, Born in Lansing, capital in small suburb of Lansing called Okemos. Emmis. Yeah, Oko like Chief Okemos is the yeah. Don't ask me what tribe. I was just gonna ask what tribe. The diatribe. The D. Yeah. Yeah. How about that? I like the, I'm gonna do some research. Do some research, yeah. And born and raised there. Born and raised. Went to Oke, miss High School graduated, went to Bowling Green State University, play soccer and studied supply chain management. And from there to Chicago, the late nineties. And then beeline for Denver. I've been here ever since, since 98. How about you, Nick? I grew up probably three hours north of Bob on the coast of Lake Michigan, on the west side. A small town called Ecma. Yeah, grew up there, born and raised. Stayed there through high school, undergrad in Nebraska. At Creighton in Omaha. Did eight years in Miami as physical therapy school, followed by medical school, and then came out to Denver for residency. You did physical therapy? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Three years and then worked for a year before med school. And now you're, surgical residents. That's right. And what year are you finishing my sixth of seventh year in Denver. It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. And what's next for you? And then heading into Baltimore for Pete Search Fellowship in 2026. Huge congrats. Yeah. Thanks. That's so exciting. Yeah, thank you. How about you, Doug? Congratulations. Thanks, man. Yeah, I'm from southeast Denver, about 10 miles south of here near Monaco and Evans where the Rainbow Music Hall used to be for a few years. And the police actually played there. And so yeah, Southeast Denver and went to school to in Greencastle, Indiana, small liberal arts school. And then spent nine months in Barcelona and then came back. I was became a fifth year senior. Kind of proud of and'cause I was playing music, trying to do double duty and then but yeah, I grew up in all those places. So what took you to Barcelona? You said, was it part of school? Yeah. Fortunately it was my junior year abroad and just was. Very thankful to have the opportunity to do that. What were you studying out there? I studied philosophy and art history and yeah, just so I had some incredible teachers out there and learned the language. Well learned yeah, great experience. It's amazing. So, I don't know, I'm a, I'm a west coast boy, right? Arizona, la Colorado for that matter. So I don't know, east or the Midwest, so to speak. So a little bit of a different lifestyle, like how did it influence you, Bob, growing up? You know, I've since heard the term flyover from Midwest. I guess Michigan's included in that. I always thought of Michigan as to this day, more even lately with political events and everything as a Michigan's kind of a Canadian bear hug in some ways. We had a lot of Canadian friends through sports. A lot of the sports that I was involved in, I had to go south especially when I got to high school to. Play on the teams that I really wanted to play on. So we'd play in Detroit South, about an hour and a half drive of from from Okemos. And there were a fair amount of Canadians that used to come over the border, either like in, so I was a soccer player primarily in high school. And just Canadian kids would come over and they were impressive on every level. I mean, just like gen, genuinely good guys as teammates and even as opponents, but just ferocious competitors as well. They were hockey players and soccer players. And you know, that that culture, I guess kind of shaped kind of the, the hockey and soccer culture kind of shaped a lot of who I am.

Jeffhuber4-17 5:04

Since I've known you, I've been in Park Hill, what, 20 years. Um, you were always the, the person that we went to for soccer advice. We took our kids to you, you taught our, our kids how to play soccer. So it just seems like soccer has always been part of your world.

5:21

Yeah, soccer's a big part. I mean, soccer was religion for me growing up. I was fortunate to have coaches that were phenomenal that had grown up in, in hotbeds in the us. St. Louis for example, was a, was a, was one of the few soccer hotbeds in the sixties and seventies. And a lot of, a lot of the coaches that I played, many of the coaches that I played for had grown up in greater St. Louis and had gone, actually gone to Michigan, attended college in Michigan State, played soccer there, and then just settled down with their families. And those are some of my big role models, and they sort of kind of created a a unique in rare soccer culture in this country. So I my family grew up, my brother's a d one soccer coach. Both of my sisters played soccer at a decent level. And to this day, I mean, all three of my kids play and it's just kind of, the game has kind of followed me around to some extent. Yeah, yeah. Hunted me down in some cases. Yeah. Yeah. And how about you, Nick? You know, I mean, you were close to Bob. Yeah. So you, you see any of those similarities growing up? Yeah, I was it was a small town. We had 400 people in our hometown and high school had about 20 kids in our class, and I. Yeah, there wasn't much around us outside the beach. And I think through that, just the importance of like good friendship growing up was probably something, in hindsight, looking back was just lucky to have like such influential and incredible friends because there was nothing else to do, but, you know, go to your buddy's place and everyone was outside, like all the time growing up. There was no movie theaters, there's no malls, there was, yeah. You know, kind of before the this generation with everything being online and I feel fortunate for that. And then spending time in Miami and two years in New York and residency. Yeah, just much different climates and kind of looking back, just felt fortunate to have just yeah. Good buddies to grow up with that were kind of influential and to this day, yeah. People you kind of look up to and go to in tough times. Right, right. How about you as a Colorado boy? Anything different that you can speak to compared to Nick and Bob? So I definitely do the Midwestern values and you know, I did spend almost every summers part of every summer back in Indiana in Indianapolis. Nice. And I also went to college there. So yeah. Very good values overall. And one of the things I always liked about Denver though relative to the whole US as I I say, it's not the east coast and it's not the west coast, it's neither of those. And you can, most people from Colorado are very good natured and very kind, and you can, yeah. You don't have to choose and fit into one of those. Like on the East coast, we feel like this, on the west coast we feel like this Yeah. A little more be yourself and Yeah. We don't have some weird agenda, you know? Right, right. I mean, I, I think too you know, maybe with our generation in the sense that, you know, I, I feel like the East coast kind of set up the sports, the sports mentality and it's slow moved across to the west. I mean, grew up in that Arizona, you know, we had kind of the big. Sports. You had football, you had soccer, you had basketball, track and field, and that was kind of baseball. It was kind of it. And then, and then things started to ebb. Soccer got bigger. Lacrosse came in. Some of those other sports that maybe was more of an east coast, you know, came into Arizona. And that's what maybe was a little different for me in that sense is I grew up in like ranchland, old farmland outside of Phoenix. And so we had to drive very far to get where we wanted to go. But everything revolved around sports and, you know, growing up now and, and, and then having kids. Yeah. I think one of the big things is, you know, getting our kids into the sports and, and not because we knew that that was gonna pay the bills or be our 401k, but it was gonna keep them outta trouble. Right. For the most part. For the most part. You know, they weren't, they weren't sitting on a corner, they were like, practice. And it built up that comradery, that really built up that camaraderie. Yeah. And, and so Bob, with, with soccer and growing up in a town that you did. I, is there a person, a people, a group that really influenced you or, or even kind of sits on your shoulder nowadays? Yeah, without a doubt. They I mean, first of all, my dad, I mean, my dad was always kind of looking around for, for new and exciting things. Soccer felt relatively new at the time. And he kind of got it all four of us kids into that sport and many other sports and music as well. But some of the guy I mentioned earlier, St. Louis, there were some, some buddies of his from college who had settled down in our hometown. And one of them in particular, a guy named guy Bush coach, coach Guy Bush had two boys. My actually had four kids, but two of them were my age. So he had formed a team and dad became aware of the team and this must have been fourth or fifth grade-ish. And, and that I would say, in fact, I got a newspaper clipping just the other day from a, from a high school buddy. I. And a photo, these grainy photos that we get from circa in 1981 now of a team that one of the first like really good teams that we were on, like he had kind of put this team together and eventually we kind of worked our way to winning and building a reputation. And I think that was the first time where I was like, I was really like, wow, this is, this is a team. This is, there's pride here. And this newspaper clipping had a photo of a bunch of guys who gradually these familiar faces came back to me and, and we were able to cheat'cause all the names were in the newspaper article. And I was like, I wonder what all these guys are up to?'cause they hadn't kept in touch with all of'em. We've been, went to Ohio for college and then Chicago and then here. So, but I would say seeing that newspaper clipping the other day, I, I thought, man, that was, that was it. That was a moment, fifth or sixth grade where the article was about a game that we had won against a rival that we had developed this rivalry over the previous year and a half. And we hadn't beaten this team yet from Saginaw, Michigan. And we beat'em one, nothing in that game. So I, I remember that game and it, it all kind of came back to me as to how, kind of, how transformative that was. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about, you know, I have a six month old and our first child and yeah. Son. And something that you know, interesting in is kind of that evolution of children into sports and male mentorship and having those coaches. And I think for so many of us, like the most influential people are outside, our parents are coaches growing up. And I guess your relationship with your dad going through soccer, is that something that he was coaching you through and then as you have kind of evolved into that role with your kids, what does that look like as far as your involvement and their interest and their passion? I was, a big takeaway was that he introdu, my dad introduced us to a lot of things. Mom was kind of in the backdrop when it came to sports, but dad would introduce us like, first love was baseball he introduced me to baseball and, and I, I loved it. I loved baseball and basketball shortly thereafter. And then there was this exotic thing called soccer that he had, he had been at boarding school in Canada. I remember the story and sharing it with us, Hey, I played soccer and boarding school in seventh grade. You want give it a shot? And didn't necessarily love it any more than any, any other sport. Yeah. Just loved to play. And I would say number one has been just like, try lots of things, you know? And that's been with my three kids has been kind of a mantra, is introduced them to lots of things and see where they gravitate. Yeah. You know? Makes sense. It's, it's a fun, it's a fun thing just to be front row, front row seat. Yeah. And, and, and I think what's, I wanted to be a great parent, right? I mean, as soon as I had the boys, it was unconditional love. You know, I wanted to have raise great citizens and I just wanted to be father of the year, you know, and I think, I think I did a pretty good job being a good parent, being fair, well balanced. But at the same time, to, to your point, Nick, I mean, I wanted other influences and so not that I really, you know, kind of guided my kids, you know, there were certain hard stops on what sports they could, could and could not play. Yeah. But you know, so when, when, you know, Bob came into our lives when, when the boys were little, you know, Bob used to run these, still does these soccer camps after school at, at the elementary school. And so here's this great guy getting to know him, knew his wife. I'm like, well, let's see how this takes off. Yeah. You know, and kind of filter that in. So as a parent, you get to, you get to look at coaches, you get to look at influences around you, and you can steer your kids. And they've been on some soccer teams that I was like. I don't know about this coach. I think maybe we need to pull him back. But you definitely help kind of encourage your kids and there's a fine balance of making them do something and letting them choose it on their own and own it, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, one of the things, we can talk about music in a little bit, but, you know, I really wanted my boys to play music, but I didn't wanna force them to do lessons. You hear about piano lessons and you hear about kids having to do it. So what I did is I just sprinkled a bunch of instruments around and kinda let them gravitate towards those instruments to see, you know, what they would pick up and what they would do.

Jeffhuber4-22 13:56

All right, gentlemen. Now for a slight pivot. I thought it'd be fun to include a short segment in this podcast featuring a guest fun fact. Um, don't really have a name yet for this segment other than guest. Fun fact, I.

14:10

So Doug, if you could only listen to one song for the rest of your life, then that's all that whether be the car living room, not your favorite song, not your favorite band, one song for the rest of your life, not continuously. Mind you. Yeah. What would it be? Oh man, that's a hard one. I did not prep for that I know my music very, very well. I, I would have to go with the great gig in the sky from Pink Floyd on the dark side of the moon, and that's just phenomenal. Wow. And so why that song? Just the vocals and the emotion. It's a one of an only song, you know, just piano based and the vocals were done on the fly basically from the fabulous singer and yeah, just, I've seen it live many times and it's just, yeah, it's truly. They're worldly to me. Right. How about you, Nick? One song for the rest of your life? I love what would it be? Yeah. And like I said, not continuous. Yeah. Not your favorite band, not your favorite song, but just there you are. Rufuss to Soul. Inner Bloom is the song. But cool. Yeah, same thing. I think just kind of music takes you back to this memory and these points in time and just Awesome. So many influential moments in my life where I seeing them live, like close friends and family being with me. Yeah, just this, I think can't wait to hear that profound, full moving song. Yeah. Puts me in a good spot. And yeah. It's nine minutes. It's got this spot minute intro that leads up to it, but yeah. You won't regret it. Perfect. We gotta listen to that one. We gotta, yeah. We gotta cue, cue these up after the chat. Right. How about you bomb? Doug beat me to the punch.'cause when you asked him, I, I thought immediately I thought breathe by by Pink Floyd on Dark side of the moon, the opening track on Dark Side of the Moon. It's also a good, good reminder if this is eternal. If I've gotta listen to this forever, it'd be a good reminder to breathe and Right. Breathe in the air. But I'm gonna, I'll just say, how about, how about eyes of the world? Grateful Dead. Oh, wow. Okay. Good. All right. Beautiful. Yeah, of course. This is not fair'cause I, I, I thought of the questions so I get to prep. Right. But, you know, ramble on comes to mind for me. Led Zeppelin has kind of stood the test of time for me. It's kinda one of the first bands I ever listened to. They were before my time, but yeah. I also would like to say in the spirit of Brian Wilson good vibration, I mean, just a happy, I like that. I like that song where you just. Right. Yeah. I, I picture like songs that I, if I'm in the car listening to the radio, you know, there's plenty of songs where I'm flipping around. Yeah. But Zeppelin and the Beach Boys, yeah. When they come on, I don't, I don't turn the channel. With Brian Wilson passing away very recently, in the last week or two. I've done a deep dive on the Beach Boys and Brian Wilson, and both documentary wise, but mostly musically, and I found about 20 Gems. And I, I knew them decently. I did not listen to pet sounds growing up, unfortunately. I think I would be a better songwriter musician. But I did listen to, you know, their endless Summer in like sixth grade or something. So, and my brother and I always had a little bit where, you know, born and raised in co well, at least we were raised in Colorado. We always, especially my brother, had a little bit of a surfer vibe. And he would, he made surfer soundtracks, you know, so that's always been bizarre to me. Very you know, kind of stratocaster type sound or whatever. Yeah, that's a good call. Yeah. I mean the, you know, they always talk about, you know, they always compare like, okay, Beatles of the Stones, right. And I, I just, I was, I, I loved both bands, but it was never big for me. The Beach Boys were, that was it for me. Yeah. Yeah. That's, and then, and then when I got a little bit older, I wanted to listen to something a little bit harder. Was Zeppelin. So Beach Boys growing up before you got to la'cause you mm-hmm. You grew growing up in Phoenix. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It was I don't know what it was. It was, was it your dad? Who, who sponsor that to you? Don't maybe my mom. Wow. Sweet. Yeah. My dad was much older than my mom, so he listened to a different kinda generation of music compared to my mom. Sure. But yeah. The Beach Boys, I, it was just, you know, it was happy, fun. Right. You know, I loved the, the harmony. Oh yeah. It was just so good. So good. Talking about cars and girls and Right. Relatable. How about, how about you, Doug? So any, any people in your life that said, Hey, Doug, I see potential in you. Why don't you go to Barcelona? Why don't you go to Dominican Republic? Oh yeah, thanks. Yeah, again, it similar to a lot of us. Yeah, that, you know, my dad is a very international traveler and, very young. I think it was six months when I first went to Algeria. I don't remember it that well, but it was an influence early in my life. And he tr truly, I, in a joke, I like to tell my dad, I was like, what were you thinking? Taking me that young? I could have caught something. And I wasn't like very robust at that but anyways yeah, so yeah, through, and also, so my dad, very international traveler, my older brother and sister also followed somewhat in his footsteps. Did volunteer programs in you know, Latin America, central America and Latin America. So that was a big influence on me doing that. Going back to music, you know, I felt very similar to you where I didn't necessarily like the piano lessons and and it was very stressful. And then I eventually got into drums and like the, I think that was third grade roughly. I started out with a drum pad and my dad would not buy a snare drum until I proved myself on a drum pad. Smart man. Smart man. I also keep the volume natural. And then I got a snare drum and it was fantastic. And I did really well on that. And then I got a drum set and I remember having my first drum set and I was so excited in the process of getting it, driving around town. The best drummer lived right by the train tracks and had the worst drum set, but he made it sound the best. And it was sketchy, you know, it's okay, we're gonna go now. But that was fabulous. But anyways I remember sitting down with my first drum set. I actually found one right one, and then I was like, what do I do? You know, I literally didn't know what to do. I was so motivated, like in my mind, I just had this. Was there something that influenced you to pick up the drums or was this just you saw something on tv, you knew a friend, you knew a. You knew a mentor? Oh yeah. That's a great question actually. Now I think about it. My sister, my older sister, Kathy, was in the middle school band at West middle school. And she was playing the clarinet or the flute actually, I think she was playing the flute in that band. So I went to see her and that night I was, I had to decide if I was gonna play trumpet or drums. Yeah. And as it turns out, so they had the regular orchestra that she was in, and then they had the stage band, which is kind of like a jazz type big band. And the drummer was phenomenal that night, and in my mind he got all these accolades and even more than anything, he was just fascinating. He was like a firework show. So Nick, how about you? What said to you, I wanna be a surgeon, I wanna go to medical school. Was it medical school first and then surgeon or, or is there something that said to you or someone that said to you, this is your, this is your journey? Yeah. I would say I probably had a more non-traditional route and that growing up my dad was an internist and long hours single parent household. Our grandpa was fortunate to move in with us when I was young, so he was kind of the biggest influence growing up. But I had zero interest in becoming a physician, went through undergrad, you know, enjoyed sports, working with people. I thought physical therapy would be the perfect avenue. And then as that kind of unfolded yeah, ended up in Miami and physical therapy school. And yeah, I think I just remember kind of vividly this day of just a long weekend of kind of probably partying a little too hard and waking up with a bad hangover and, I kind of just seeing how maybe the next 30 years were gonna unfold and I never wanted to reach a stage where I was looking back and having regrets for not have applying myself further or working more or kind of just living in these experiences, but not finding a lot of meaning or purpose and like the stuff that I was doing. So I started just one step at a time. Started taking some pre-reqs in the evening from medical school. Took the MCAT and was fortunate to get in and kind of just yeah, things kind of evolved into wanting to work with children, wanting to be a surgeon, pursuing pediatric surgery. And fortunate it's kind of panned out well. And, and was there anybody that helped guide you through that, that journey? I think, you know, just going back to that importance of having good support growing up and having a grandpa who grew up in the Great depression and, through everything. I think just his work ethic and backbone and being 80 years old and had a farm and just showing up every day at 7:00 AM and helping out at the farm. And for him this was his purpose and like drive and just raising his grandkids. I think that work ethic kind of spoke to me and something that I've carried with me is that, you know, I've never been the most athletic, the smartest but you know, I knew that I could work hard and kind of carry that with me and was fortunate to just meet some kind of good people through through school. And that's probably been, I guess, the most rewarding aspect of residency and meeting people like Jeff is that, you know, my wife is same year in residency as me. And I think, you know, the career's been phenomenal. I love what I do, but the people that I've met have been by far like the best aspect I think of the job and probably something that goes less set of of medical training. It's just get a surrounded by Truly impressive people that push you to be a better person every day. Well, and that's, you know, that's. You know, one of the reasons why you guys are part of this maiden voyage is because of everything that I've gone through in my life. You know, you, you, you take stock, you take inventory, and you start thinking you know, I've got some really good people in my corner. How did I, how did I fare through this? And, you know, what happened to me, to our family, losing our, our youngest son was devastating, you know? And there were moments where I didn't think I was gonna be able to get out of the hole. And that's where I really relied on various people. Because, you know, there were a lot of moments where I had to be vulnerable and, and either you could handle me being vulnerable and or, or not. And, and. You know, Nick, you created a, you know, you were with me from the day one when I started the hospital in 2019, and then, you know, you guys have been part of the band. You all knew Brody. And so, so that's, you know, one of the reasons why I wanted to create this is I just wanted people to hear stories, hear incredible individuals who have lives, who have struggles, who have careers, family have, you know, in inspirations. And then, you know, you guys have inspired me in that sense. And so the way this podcast, and I'll put Nick on the spot, but the way this podcast came about I'm a physician assistant, so I work in trauma, acute care surgery, and I have the good fortune of working with people like Nick, who are, are surgical residents. And while they don't necessarily come to me for the surgical training, I feel like I get to participate and help train them in a way and. One of the things I love to do is just talk to people and kind of be their cheerleader beyond medicine. And one day I was in the, in the residents office call room and we were just, you know, talking bantering about life. And I mentioned a podcast and Nick turns around and goes, wait, you got a podcast? And, you know, and there's my in imposter syndrome. I'm like, are you crazy? What are you thinking? And Nick, what did you say to me? I mean, I was like, if there's any podcast that I would ever listen to, it would want to, you know, it would be Jeff's. It's just someone that Yeah. I've always looked up to and think so Cool the experiences that he's had. His role is not only a clinician, but as a father is like someone I've always looked up to as mentorship. We've had a, you know, this relationship of evolving from my intern year to now. Jeff is someone I think, you know. Throughout the hospital. There's a hundred surgical residents that work with Jeff, and he's kind of this beloved mentor that is officiating like weddings of our co-residents. And truly, you know, that someone is through some pretty, I would say, stressful moments. He's kind of the calm in the storm and someone that not only has he been able to, I think be an incredible father and partner and husband throughout this, but you go and, you know, seeing patients for these very brief interactions. And anyone who has seen Jeff, you know, earlier in the day has kind of had this genuine connection with him. That is something I think we all kind of strive to replicate. I mean, that's incredibly humbling and I, I can't thank you enough. And, you know, one of our, one of our kind of mantras in the house is, you know, lead with love and not fear. And, and that's what this podcast is about. You know, all our different walks of life, whatever it might be, and, and who we are and what, where we come from is. You take away the titles, you take away the background noise, and, and you take who we are at the base and the foundation and, and we all have this bond whether we know it or not. And I think that's what's so important and so, exciting about hearing these stories.'Cause you all have been a safe place for me and I've learned as much from Nick as hopefully he's learned from, from me. And we just, we carry that forward. We're, you know, whether we want to inspire people. You just, you kind of lead by example and you stay true to your heart lead with love, not fear. thank you so much for joining me on Beyond Our Surface. This concludes the first part of a three episode series called Growth, vulnerability, and Balancing Life. I'd like to thank Doug, Nick, and Bob for their willingness to be on this podcast and share some insightful stories. They opened up about their childhoods, how sports and mentors shaped them, and their first attempts at juggling careers and family. Their stories really drive home how much those early experiences mold who we become. They also highlight the significance of mentors, both parents and coaches as they guide kids through sports, focusing on building real passion rather than forcing interests. There's so much I hope for this podcast. I want to create a cozy, welcoming space where all kinds of people can have real honest conversations. I'm also really working on my skills as a podcaster and interviewer so I can help guests feel comfortable sharing their authentic, vulnerable, and inspiring stories I'm developing several themes for upcoming podcasts that explore diverse backgrounds, challenges, and passions. My aim is to foster understanding bridge divides and strengthen connections among listeners. Ultimately we seek to inspire reflection, personal growth, and cultivation of meaningful relationships. Enabling individuals to live with greater purpose will delve beyond the superficial to uncover compelling personal narratives and highlight the shared human experiences that unite us. Thank you for joining me on this journey of self-discovery and connection. Next time on Beyond Our Surface, the second part of our three episode series, growth, vulnerability, and Balancing Life. I'll continue my conversation with Doug, Nick, and Bob. We'll delve into the challenges of their professions, the delicate balance between family and work, and the profound impact community has had on their lives. Discover how significant life events and global travels have influenced their parenting and family dynamics. We'll also explore the ongoing support they receive from their communities and mentors in overcoming life's obstacles. Your support is invaluable and allowing me to continue sharing these inspiring stories. If you wish to contribute to the podcast future, please consider supporting us@beyondoursurface.com. Thank you and take care.