How to Prevent Ego from Running Your Life or Business with Chardét Ryel

If you’ve ever caught yourself making a decision that felt off—like it came from a place of fear, proving yourself, or ego, this episode is for you. I’m joined by my very first guest on the podcast, the incredible podcast visibility coach Chardét Ryel: host of Feel Good Nakd and Her First Three Years.

We talk about what ego-driven decisions really look like, how burnout shows up, and why proving yourself is one of the fastest paths to exhaustion. We also talk about what changes when you stop leading with hustle and start building around balance and alignment instead.

Chardét reveals what shifted for her after 12 years as an entrepreneur: the one change she made this year, what happened when she finally dropped the pressure, and how creating from intention instead of fear has made everything feel lighter. 

If you’re feeling burned out, low-key resentful, or just ready to stop grinding your way through business or life, this conversation will speak to you. It’s fun, honest, a little spicy in places—and full of moments that will make you pause and reflect. Sometimes the biggest shift starts with a single question: What if I just stopped doing the thing that drains me the most?

This is one of those episodes you’ll want to revisit whenever things feel heavy. 

Hit play and let’s talk about what it really means to build from a place of alignment instead of fear, ego, or self-hate.

Topics Discussed in the Episode:

• What ego-driven decisions look like in business and life
• Why “proving yourself” is a recipe for burnout
• How to know if you’re operating from fear, not alignment
• Setting boundaries when you’re burned out and overextended
• Communication dynamics when working with men vs. women
• The difference between surrender and being passive
• How to build a business around the life you actually want

Ways to Support This Podcast:

• Share this episode with a friend who's burned out or stuck in hustle mode.
• Follow the podcast to catch future episodes on mindset, communication, and real growth.

This is a production of Jule Kim © 2025.

Transcript

Jule Kim
If you've ever caught yourself making a decision and realized later it was totally driven by ego, or if you're burned out or stuff feels heavier than it should, you'll want to listen to this episode. Today I'm talking with my favorite podcaster, Chardet Ryel, who's also my very first guest on the show. We have so much fun discussing how to recognize when ego might be getting in your way, why spite and self-doubt are not the right motivators, and what to do to move into better balance and a more fulfilling life.

Jule Kim
You're listening to This Is How You Think, the show that helps you remodel your mindset. I'm your host, Jule Kim. Let's dive in. 

Hello, everyone. I'm so excited. Ultra ultra excited, actually, because today we get to talk to Chardet Ryel. And the reason why this is so special for me, she's the first guest I'm ever bringing on my show. She's had me on hers multiple times, and I have loved the conversation with her every single time. 

She's one of my favorite podcast hosts, not just because I've been on her show, but because every time I listen to her episodes, there's always something to learn, and yet it doesn't feel preachy. She feels like someone who genuinely cares about you. And so I'm so excited to introduce Chardet to our audience. 

Hey, Chardet, how are you?

Chardet Ryel
I'm really good. That felt like a warm tea to sit here and hear those words. I think it was the least awkward time I've had to sit and hear an intro. So thank you.

Jule Kim
Well, it helps that you've been the one who has been supporting me through my podcast journey, which is where I feel like you should really introduce yourself and what you do.

Chardet Ryel
Yeah. So I host two podcasts, professional podcaster, and I also help women. Specifically, I really love working with female creatives, founders, people who are just doing really impactful things or challenging the status quo, and they are trying to grow their visibility, and the primary way I do that is through podcasting, because I just want to get as many people as possible off of Instagram.

Jule Kim
I listen to this, and every time you so gently suggest that maybe you don't have to be on Instagram, every time, maybe you can audit and see where the return on your investment is, and maybe that's not Instagram. Like, shut up, Chardet.

Chardet Ryel
I actually have a really good friend who's an amazing Instagram marketer. So it's just funny, because when you have conversations like this, totally opposite messaging.

Jule Kim
Oh, man, I can only imagine. So let's switch gears here a little bit. The reason why I wanted to bring you on, not just as the first guest, but also the timing of this being in December for 2025—there was something about me listening to one of your previous episodes, and I thought she's the perfect person to wrap up 2025 with. So how has this year gone for you?

Chardet Ryel
Every year I think I do the mistake, which I think probably everyone does, of in January, I used to do the whole thing like, choose your Power Word, and it just never goes according to the Power Word.

Jule Kim
Wait, can we have an example?

Chardet Ryel
Yeah, so it's really funny. So two years ago, this is the best example. I picked a Portuguese word because I was in Brazil for a couple months there. And I have a connection there, and it's arrasar, which basically means like, it literally means to destroy, but colloquially it means like you do so amazing that it's just like, it's the equivalent of someone saying she killed it. That's the kind of expression, like you just did so good. And that was my word. And I think it really was more like the normal destroy. It was just, I didn't—it was just a disaster year. It was like I set myself up, and it was the opposite of killing it. Yeah. So this year, I actually think the word was surrender, which is a little bit more—we were talking about this briefly. I actually think that's more aligned with what happened. And it wasn't my most crazy standout sales year. It wasn't like incredible things happening year, but I think it was the year where I actually found the most balance with my business and really started to get over some of the overthinking. And so that actually was pretty good.

Jule Kim
That is so beautiful.

Chardet Ryel
Yeah, it's an interesting thing. I can't remember. I had an experience recently, because at the moment, I am in Asia, and it's interesting to go outside of what you're used to, the people you're used to being around, and just see how much your worldview is not like the view.

Jule Kim
Okay, so if you had to sort of sum up that difference in the worldview that you're seeing right now with you being in Asia, how would you frame that?

Chardet Ryel
I think it kind of ties into what we were going to talk about before, like, before we started hitting record. And you had asked me, what are some of the lessons you've learned this year, like, where do you see things for next year, both from your clients and personally, and I really think here, there's such a big distance physically, but also just the way you operate, lifestyle wise, from the rat race and from hustle culture and from having these like, oh, I've got to do nine figure goals. It's so separate that you start to really think about, okay, why am I even doing my business? Why am I doing my career? Like, what is the deeper meaning if I go beyond those objectives? And that for me, really was this last year too, where I had a couple experiences which happy to talk about, that just made me finally be like, this is not it. I'm not gonna be following, sorry, but like Alex Hormozi. It's just not—I'm happy to take some inspiration. He's not my guru.

Jule Kim
I would have been more shocked if you had said he was your guru. Something doesn't line up here. Okay, yeah.

Chardet Ryel
I just don't. I think I've completely divorced from that idea of success, and it has taken me 12 years now.

Jule Kim
Given where you're at in your business so far, and given the transition you're describing with this year especially, what would you say is maybe the top or top couple of lessons from this year alone?

Chardet Ryel
I think the biggest one is to never make decisions from your ego in life, but also in your business. And I think a lot of times we do that, we respond to other people and opportunities from the ego, meaning like, oh, this hurts me. I'm worried, a fear that I'm going to fail, like all these things related to that, and it just never goes well. It's never a good decision. And this is something I remember hearing my first year of entrepreneurship was, do not confuse your identity with your business, and this is the reason why. Because if you start making decisions from ego, then you don't have objective—not that you really ever can be super objective, but you're not making it objectively, and that's so important, especially when you're a solo person and you don't have a team to iterate against. So that is the biggest one. If you can do that, if you can be like, am I making this from ego? Am I responding this way from ego? It's just so helpful. Am I rushing to do this launch because of ego? That has made everything feel easier for me. Not that it's easy still. It's still hard, but easier than it was.

Jule Kim
So I think with the whole ego piece—and I would describe myself as someone who's maybe a little bit more self-aware than the normal person out there, but I still have moments where a little time passes and I'll look back and realize, oh, that response was totally based in ego. So how does one know so that they can maybe catch themselves in the moment a little sooner?

Chardet Ryel
It's really anytime—I guess an easier way to say it would be it's anytime you're doing something from an emotion. So let's say I'm afraid, I'm nervous, I'm frustrated, I'm angry. I'm not feeling enough. I'm comparing. Anytime you're doing it from an emotion, and you have this knee-jerk response of how you want to act is often the case of coming from ego. And I get that too, because I remember listening to podcasts years ago, and hearing someone talk about this, and I was like, what is this person on about? Like, what is ego even? But it really is. You can pretty much figure it out from emotion. And I'm not saying it's every time, because I'm like, you also—sometimes I look back and I can say that was definitely done from a position of anger or not feeling enough or frustration, and it's okay. It's still gonna happen. It's just it happens less.

Jule Kim
Could I have an example of this? Because I am feeling slightly not called out, but it's almost like, am I triggering you? I'm like, I feel uncomfortably described by this, but before I make it all about me, okay, could you give me an example? I know you mentioned am I rushing to do this launch, but what about just interacting with people, or any other thing? What would you say is the most common example of you having been in this?

Chardet Ryel
The biggest example? So business side, I think it's definitely launches. So I think when we're rushing to do stuff in a launch, especially like oop January, I gotta get it out, is often from ego. I don't do that anymore. Now I'm like, the first quarter of the year, I am not launching anything. I'm not launching anything because I'm not going to buy into that. But I think the most common example, and it's not just related to business, is in how you introduce yourself. How you introduce yourself conveys so much ego, because often we'll be like, oh, I need to convey this amount of success or this connection to this person. And I get in a business networking setting, you have to do that. But I think we do it in our normal lives as well. And so when you immediately go to like, oh, what's the most impressive thing I can mention, or what's the name drop I can do, or what's the thing that makes me interesting. And I know this goes against the whole oh, you should have your elevator pitch, but I'm not saying this in opposition. I'm just saying that elevator pitches are for certain circumstances and not every single one.

Jule Kim
I can immediately guess that maybe some people would be like, okay, Chardet, then how do we balance between wanting to be memorable, even if it's not in a business networking setting. Because, okay, two examples coming to mind here, and let's start with a personal context. I attended one of my husband's friend's birthday party. We're at this dinner, and my husband starts to mention my podcast, and I deliberately talk over him to stop him. And when you're talking about this ego thing, I go back and forth to the extremes. So I've noticed that tendency to want to seem special in some way, like a little too much within myself. So I think I may have gone to the far opposite extreme, where I wouldn't let him mention that, and he actually brought it up with me after. So why didn't you let me tell anyone about your podcast? And I was like, I don't know. I'm embarrassed. I don't know if my podcast's any good. And he was like, you should have just let me say this. And I was like, I probably should have. So what would you say about the balancing? Sorry.

Chardet Ryel
No, because this is a good clarification. I would say, I mean, let someone else sing your praises. I don't see anything wrong with that. That's the best way to be introduced is when someone else talks about you and your experiences. Even you introducing me here on this show, I could never say those things about myself without sounding like a narcissist. So I think let someone sing your praises, let them talk about your stuff. I think it's great. My husband's my best marketer for my podcast. I'll meet people that he met first, and they'll be like, I heard about your show. I just downloaded. And I was like, that's great, because I have conversations with people and they don't download.

Jule Kim
Oh my gosh. Okay, so that is a good point. Now let's address the other example that I had in my mind when we talk about ego and that emotion. I'm not gonna lie. I think I'm in a season of burnout right now, which is ironic, because I recently listened to your podcast episode on burnout and how you described the symptoms. I'm like, oh, fuck, that sounds just like me, like the just zombieing out in front of Netflix and just not wanting to do anything. That's totally me. But I notice within myself—and we're talking about the emotional piece. So just like you, I normally work primarily with women, and I don't think I understood the privilege of that choice. I didn't understand how good I had it to work with other women, mostly other women, because in the year I've had with all the family stuff, the grief—it put me in a serious spot for cash flow. So I've had to compromise and take on clients that I normally wouldn't, and this has included a lot of men recently, and we're talking about certain instances where they are interacting with me in ways that I'm not used to being talked to that way. And I can feel that urge to not just set a boundary, but to put them in their place. You want to talk about emotions, right? So lay it on me.

Chardet Ryel
This is where you have to be so nuanced, I guess is the word when it comes to ego. Because if we were all Buddhist, then we could just be like, oh, don't need to think about it at all. Whatever. But we exist in the world as it exists. And so sometimes you do have to put them in their place. Sometimes you do have to do that. If anyone's listening that is in a traditional job, sometimes you do have to bring a bit of ego in to protect yourself against a boss or a colleague or whatever. So I think that's a little bit different than the need to impress or something that comes—I guess the separation would be something that comes solely from you versus what they are doing. It would be like if you went up to these men and you immediately needed to impress them before they even said a word to you, versus you're having this conversation with them, they're clearly being condescending, then you need to respond. You have to do something. And a great example was, this was one of the experiences I was going to tell you. I spent three days in a monastery, and there's talks by these monks. This is in the mountains of Thailand. And this monk was talking to us about how the idea of separating yourself, not getting involved, letting go, surrender. And then one of the other participants was like, well, what if someone's robbing my house? Do I just surrender? I don't do anything. And the monk was like, no, then you do something. So there's a subtlety here.

Jule Kim
I think the first thought that crossed my mind in your example is maybe the surrender being about what is within your control versus what is not, but also, what should you protect versus doesn't need protection. And I'm like, okay, so I really like that distinction with the ego. So if someone is doing something at you, then perhaps that would justify some flexing of ego back. There's a part of me where I think there are some people who only understand the language of ego as well. So you do have to read the room and think about who that person is and how they would receive it. Okay, so where would you put proving yourself, like that energy of proving yourself?

Chardet Ryel
With ego? I think it's interesting, because you just made a really good distinction where you said it's about protecting versus surrendering control. I think that is so good because you can ask yourself that question, am I protecting something that really does need to be protected, or is it just—I guess the best example I could use here is, is it just like, for example, let's say your body sometimes overreacts to a foreign substance or allergen or whatever. People have allergies, and the normal functioning is that that would protect you, but sometimes it's overreacting and it's actually making you suffer unnecessarily. So that's where I would put the distinctions you made. And in terms of your one where you were saying—was it your self-doubt, or what was the one that you had just brought up? The proving yourself energy. Proving yourself energy. I think that is almost always an overreactive response. The only case where it might be different is, for example, when you were saying, I'm working with these clients, and I need to put in this boundary. And part of that is me explaining who I am and what I do, and I'm not going to be humble about it. So that's where I would say that that's there, but I know that it's one of the more difficult ones, because it's so close to us and it's so easy to fall on the other side. This is the one I struggle with the most. I'll be honest with you.

Jule Kim
Well, that makes me feel a little better. I think I've gone around the block here, because for someone who prides herself on good communication—which, as an autistic person, I'm not always going to hit it, okay, because if you can't read the room, or you can't read the signals like other people can, sometimes you're going to swing and you're gonna miss, and that's okay—but I definitely see certain dynamics coming across with all these men and clients I've never encountered with women, and it was a little bit like, okay, come on, use your good communication.

Chardet Ryel
Give an example. I'm so curious now.

Jule Kim
I've gotten comments where, when I say, you really need to do this, and then one of the comments I recently got was, do you know that for a fact, or are you just guessing? And that's not the first time that person has made that kind of comment. Okay, and then there was another client where I find that I have to keep repeating directions. So across the board, for some reason they're not following directions.

Chardet Ryel
Imagine that.

Jule Kim
I was just like, am I being the asshole here? I don't want to sound like I'm some sort of man hater. I'm really not, but I'm definitely seeing certain patterns I've never seen before with all of my women clients.

Chardet Ryel
I think it's a numbers thing. I really do. I think that a lot of women have done so much emotional awareness work that when you most likely work with one, probably it's going to be an okay experience. Now, I know there's people listening who've been like, I have worked with a terror of a woman before, so I'm not saying everyone. I also have had that experience. I do think that there's less men doing that, although nowadays, especially younger generations, it's different. So it's just a numbers thing. Your luck of the draw is a lot higher chance that it's going to be more challenging.

Jule Kim
Yeah, such a good point, because I was telling my husband about some of these encounters, and it's so interesting, because you can see everyone's personal bias come out depending on who you're talking to. So my husband was like, are you sure you're not just choosing to see these things? And I'm like, I would remember if I'd had these kind of encounters with previous clients. And I told Chris about this, and after I told him the first example, there was this long pause, and then he said that would have been client firing time. Well, he wondered that, yeah. And then I told one of my mentor coaches today about it, and she said, gosh, it sounds like you're taking it really personally. And that comment kind of bothered me a little bit, because I was like, she's right. I am taking it personally, but also, how else am I supposed to take this? It was a good pause for reflection, though, and you're right, the emotional awareness is really, really key.

Chardet Ryel
I think it's also what you were saying now is maybe you were taking it personally. It's hard not to, and at the same time, it's so different when you're working with someone versus just the chance interaction. So I told you about how I had that experience here where it was me and a bunch of men, and it wasn't the best communication skills going around. They're also not professional men, so they haven't gone through maybe some of the training you would have done in leadership, etc. So I'm not saying it's indicative of all men at all, and I was okay, because I don't have to work with those people. But if I had to work with them, and they were my client, and I felt responsible for their success, I think you can be a little bit more critical.

Jule Kim
Oh, man, yeah, I have moments where I'm like, reel it in. Don't be psycho. It's like, don't open a can of whoop ass on them. So the professional level here is I cannot guarantee results if you deviate outside of the instructions. And I've even said, literally, I don't work well with people who operate outside of my instructions. And that's where the person was like, I don't know why you're getting so upset. And I was like, what? And then later, he actually revealed I didn't like the word instructions. So how much of this dynamic is just because I'm a woman? Most of it.

Chardet Ryel
Now, I think—and someone, if you're listening, maybe you agree, tell Jule. Maybe you disagree. We'll see what comments you get—is, I think this person would think the same thing. If a man had said what you said, they would think the same thing. I don't like the word instructions. You're taking it personally, but they wouldn't say it.

Jule Kim
Exactly. So with all of these encounters, when my husband said what he said about, are you sure you're not just choosing to only see these instances, and I said, here's what I'm pretty darn sure of—I would bet you $1,000 right now that they would never have the balls to say this to a man if this interaction were just from a man. And he was like, yeah, maybe. And I was just like, oh, okay. So if we take a step back, several steps back, and we think about women in general and the challenges that they face, trying to live life, right? We talk about emotional awareness. And I definitely think if I could go back in time to my younger self, that would be one of the key areas I would address. But what about you?

Chardet Ryel
You would address, what exactly are you thinking for your younger self?

Jule Kim
The fact that I had no emotional awareness. I grew up with my parents constantly, not just my parents, my family, saying, why do you have no awareness? Why can't you read the freaking room?

Chardet Ryel
Yeah, I don't know if anyone in their 20s, especially early 20s, really does have much self-awareness. I mean, if you've been through—let me rephrase that. If you've been through a particularly traumatic thing very young, I think you do speed that up. Let's say you lost a parent. Let's say you had, I don't know, something happened to you. You were forced with responsibility really early. But just by nature of the fact that most people in their early 20s have not had experiences that force you to develop that awareness, I think. But I agree with you. I was such—I had such a temper, such a horrible temper, and always took things personally, and it put me into so many verbal fights and stuff. Obviously, alcohol did not help, and yeah, I definitely would have taken away some of the rage. Maybe.

Jule Kim
Wait a minute. I need specifics here. I need a story. This does not align with who I see you as today.

Chardet Ryel
Yeah, it's so funny. And I don't go deep into astrology or anything, but I'm a Scorpio, and it's really funny, because people will meet me and be like, how are you a Scorpio? But if you met me 15 years ago, you would understand.

Jule Kim
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Am I having amnesia? Do we already know this about each other? I'm a Scorpio. 

Chardet Ryel

Yeah. We know this. 

Jule Kim

Yeah, okay, I am having amnesia.

Chardet Ryel
But do you feel like you're a traditional Scorpio? Maybe I don't know, from what I know of you, I don't know.

Jule Kim
I think my lesser evolved self is a traditional Scorpio, like fits it to a T. So just like what you described of your younger self, I was like, I feel like you're describing my younger self.

Chardet Ryel
Yeah, maybe it's—maybe it's definitely the same. But I think it's going back to what we talked about before, where I had this huge need to prove myself. And I've talked about this on both podcasts where I grew up with a single mom, we didn't have money, and I felt this huge need to just prove my worth, and prove that I deserve to be there. And I think I overly did it, and if I felt disrespected—and sometimes I was disrespected—I could have at least thought about it differently. Maybe I would have responded similarly, but I think I shouldn't have internalized so much of this stuff. That's the big thing, is you can have a response which is emotional or from the ego, but when you internalize it, and you think about it over and over again for weeks, months and years, it just does so much damage.

Jule Kim
With internalizing maybe this is the part we unpack a little bit here, because there's the rumination, there's the taking it personally, but I think there's a little bit more to that. Because internalizing something, I think, to me, means taking away a lesson from it.

Chardet Ryel
I guess it's how you internalize it. So I'm thinking of not internalizing it for I learned this. I'm aware about this. I want to work on this, but more like, oh, this person doesn't think I'm good enough, and therefore I'm going to think about this conversation again and again, and I'm going to feel that I'm not good enough, and then that interaction—the memory of that interaction—is going to influence the next time that environment is present, and I'm going to spew all my crap on the next person, whether it's justified or not.

Jule Kim
I think that is the lesson, though, that you're describing. So we tend to think of lessons as something where it's good, but I find with my work with clients, it's almost like sort of setting the record straight. So a lot of my work is to uncover what they think are the lessons that actually are not. So in what you just described, I would say maybe the lesson is something like, whenever I see someone who thinks something about me and I think they think that because of their behavior, then I'm going to ultra prove myself, and I'm going to prove the shit out of myself for the next person. So it doesn't even go into that territory.

Chardet Ryel
Yeah, I think most people who would say, I'm ambitious, who would call themselves ambitious, fall into that.

Jule Kim
Why do you think that is?

Chardet Ryel
I really think that in order to overcome a lot of the obstacles you have to overcome, especially in business, but in your career as well, sometimes the easiest motivation, unfortunately, is self-hate and self-doubt. It's just easier, and it really does fuel a lot of people.

Jule Kim
I see that. I see that all the time. You're actually reminding me of this reel I saw recently from Your Rich BFF. Do you follow that account?

Chardet Ryel
No, but now I'm curious.

Jule Kim
She is—I can't remember her last name, but her first name is Vivian. She puts out a lot of content around financial advice, and one of the reels that she had that recently went viral was she said something like, I will be fueled by spite. And she's saying, use your anger and your spite to go do productive things. And I was like, on the one hand, I find it admirable, but on the other hand, I was like, I don't like this message. I do not endorse this message.

Chardet Ryel
It's so hard, isn't it, because the world tells you one thing, but then you feel differently about it.

Jule Kim
My 20-something-year-old self would not have looked any further through that message. I would have been like, yes, this is amazing. And where I am today, being over 40, I'm like, it can work some of the time, but it's not sustainable. What are your thoughts?

Chardet Ryel
I think this is why people have midlife crises, honestly. I think it's because you fuel yourself on inadequacy, rage, comparison, spite, proving, and then you get where you want to go, or maybe you don't. Either way, it's the same result. And you then are like, well, this is completely unfulfilling and draining. Because you realize once you get there, the spite is still there, even if you achieve the thing, the inadequacy is still there, because it has nothing to do with what you achieve at all. It's completely different. And I agree with you, because when I was in my 20s, I would have been that person completely. And now it's just yeah, I don't know if I'm gonna follow that. You can't judge a person by one reel, right?

Jule Kim
I like, and I want to say that the message of that reel is overall positive. And I'm sure millions of people find it inspiring. I mean, if we have the choice between taking that negative cloud of energy and then just sort of self-combusting, versus redirecting it into a productive avenue, I'm like, well, it seems like a no-brainer. But maybe where I'm at with my work is more like, at the same time, do you want to look a little bit deeper and see why that even crosses your mind as a thing? Why is there a spite?

Chardet Ryel
Yeah, because there's another choice, which I think we don't think about, of addressing where does that even come from, which is harder. It's a lot easier to just direct it towards this thing that all the world will applaud you for. So you get that positive reinforcement. It made me think too, though—I recently had a guest on the show that was saying she was a communication and relationships expert, and she was saying that if she wants something to go viral on her page, mini viral, all she has to do is create a reel around why the other person is wrong, why someone else is wrong, and it's not you. And it makes me think the same thing. I think we have to be so careful about what people want to digest online versus what's actually helpful in your personal growth.

Jule Kim
I think that's probably a reason why Jefferson Fisher's content is so popular, too. It's not necessarily, oh my gosh—I believe he's a lawyer from Texas, and I'll send you some of his stuff. Or if you just look up Jefferson Fisher, he is massively viral this year because he just released a book. But a lot of his content is very similarly positioned, not necessarily here's how to prove the other person wrong, but a little bit like that, like here's how to respond when someone is basically being a jerk to you. So it's very oppositional. And I've seen something similar where on TikTok, especially if I even go in the direction of men versus women, that video is going to go viral, like hundreds of thousands of views. And I remember taking one of my videos down because I was like, I do not like where this is going at all. So I sacrificed the virality of that reel, that TikTok.

Chardet Ryel
I feel like you've reached a higher state of Internet being by doing that. You're an evolved content creator.

Jule Kim
It's a hard thing. So maybe this ties back into just me, the choices I'm making today versus the choices I would have made in my 20s. Because I'm pretty darn sure I would have let that video stay up regardless of how I felt on the inside, and it's making the choices about who you are versus the choice for validation.

Chardet Ryel
Yeah, I like that. That's a really good way to think about it. Are you doing it for validation? Similarly to how we talked about, are you doing it from the emotion or because it's the one that really makes sense for you and for the situation, because sometimes what makes sense for you is actually not right for the situation.

Jule Kim
That actually kind of brings me back to what you were describing about this year. So you said this year was really different. You've achieved a certain level of balance, it seems, that you haven't seen before. So what changed?

Chardet Ryel
I think I really just let go of—well, first off, this was the first year in 12 years, and you don't have to do this. And I know a lot of gurus will be like, wrong, wrong, wrong, but this was the first year in 12 years of business that I did not create these are my financial goals for this year. And I did that intentionally, because I was like, I'm going to create from a space of what makes sense right now for my lifestyle and also for how I want to connect with people and what I want to do. It's not saying I'm not going to think about the bottom line, because you have to when you're in any job or you run a business, but it was more a sense of, I'm not going to tie my metrics to this. This is not going to be the most important thing for me. I think that was the start of it. And I will be honest, it was a little bit easier for me, because I was also starting the year in Brazil and celebrating Carnival. So it's a little bit easier.

Jule Kim
I think I saw those stories. I remember seeing stories almost like hot damn. That looks fabulous.

Chardet Ryel
Yeah, because in Brazil, the new year doesn't start till after Carnival, in terms of work. So that made it easier, because I was in an environment, of course, where it wasn't so important to me. However, this fact still stands that I did it because I've also celebrated other new years there, and I didn't do that. So I think that was the start of it, and then things just happened organically from there. I really thought about what we talked about earlier of am I making this choice, for example, launches or new products, because of pressure, because of comparison, or because this is genuinely what I want to create for this. And it's not to say I loved every part of creating. I did Refresh. I loved working with you guys for growing and starting your podcast. It wasn't like it's not fun for me to go in and do curriculum. It's not my favorite thing. So I'm not saying every day was great, but I think overall, it was a sense of I'm building something to fit more the lifestyle I want versus just the external validation.

Jule Kim
I don't know what it was listening to you. It felt so easeful. I think the part where you said building for the lifestyle you want.

Chardet Ryel
Yeah, and I think—I don't know if you think about this because you were saying I'm feeling burnout right now. Do you feel like the burnout is stemming from the disconnect between what you want to create and how fast you're going? Or where do you feel that it's coming? Because I'm sure a lot of listeners are in the same place.

Jule Kim
I think on multiple levels. So emotionally, because my brother passed away this year, my dad was in the hospital this week. It's just been a lot. It's been so much to process doing the kind of work I do with my clients as well, and it feels like I'm constantly sort of carrying around people's stuff. But then on top of that is my mind never really shuts off for content, whether it's for the podcast or for social. I think it's really more that last one, the never turning off. I feel like I'm an engine that's just always running, and it never—it doesn't have an off switch. And it's on the mental side. I work out every day. But that's not the burnout. It's just I'm starting to fantasize about having periods where I just sit and look at a view and nothing else, or I read a book, and the book is for fun—something like Fourth Wing or Confessions of a Shopaholic, and it's not another business or leadership or marketing book.

Chardet Ryel
So maybe, why not start?

Jule Kim
I think I'm in a weird place where there was that one Instagram story of yours that I responded to, because you were like, this is the view. And I was like, oh, my God. I haven't been able to get that image out of my mind, actually, because it just feels like what I need so much right now. And it's not the vacation-ness, it's the nothingness that I really crave.

Chardet Ryel
There's a—it's very healing to go from the burnout to the nothingness. And simple. I was thinking how on this time in the monastery, some people are choosing to go silent during this time. And one of the really amazing moments that could have been awkward in a normal situation, but just touches on this idea of the healing power of nothingness—is I was sitting with my two roommates, because you have roommates there, and we were sitting on the porch of one of these little kutis, which are these little kind of wooden hut things, and we were just looking out at the view of the mountains, and they were not talking. They took the vow of silence. I did not choose that, because, as you know, I lost my voice for three months before. So I don't need to be silent. I already did my Vipassana. But they were silent. So I was silent, because I was respecting their wish to not be spoken to. And the three of us were just silent, looking at this view for I don't even know how much time it might have been, an hour. And it was just so nice. We're not reading, we're not doing anything, we don't have to have small talk. It was just really nice. And then when it was over, they just got up and they left, and I was like, oh, need more moments like this—not necessarily with other people. It doesn't need to be, but just like, what's the mini version of that?

Jule Kim
That's probably going to be my biggest takeaway for me today, talking to you. It's what is the mini version of that I can have right now? And when I reflect back over this year or just most of my life, I don't really think I've had hardly much of that, the nothingness, the stillness. This might sound weird, but I remember the period of my life as a child, before I learned how to read, and I was so fucking bored out of my mind all the time. So the day I finally learned how to read, it was just game over. From then on, it's like I was always reading, but I don't think I understood what I was doing to myself there.

Chardet Ryel
Yeah, you didn't. Well, you wouldn't have had the emotional ability to do this. I mean, how many kids just sit and stare into space for an hour?

Jule Kim
I mean, if you do, they think there's something wrong with you.

Chardet Ryel
Yeah. So maybe it's okay now.

Jule Kim
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for this conversation. And if I asked you, what is the one thing that you want people to remember from your experiences or your learnings, what would it be?

Chardet Ryel
I think it's actually something that ties into what we talked about, but I didn't explicitly say, and it's a message that I've really been pushing a lot more in newsletters that I send now. The thing that feels the most dragging for you, the most difficult, the most ego-led that you're doing in your life or your career or your business—to stop and think about what would happen if you stopped doing it, or you just surrendered to however it's gonna go, because it's usually the thing that allows you to move into more of what we're talking about, like having the more balance, the calm and the deeper fulfillment, but it's super scary.

Jule Kim
These kind of conversations—this didn't go where I thought it would go, which, given what we talked about before we started recording. But I think that's what makes it so wonderful. It gives back a little of that wonder, like the glimmer of what's around the corner you don't quite know, and it's exciting. So I think to have what you just said, it's a little bit of that. It's a mystery, and we spend so much of our time so certain that things are going to go wrong if we take our hands off the wheel. And it's like, how do you know? You're not going to know unless you try it.

Chardet Ryel
Yeah, you'll be surprised at how much, how unimportant you actually are in terms of coming off the wheel a little bit.

Jule Kim
Yeah. All right, so before we wrap up, where can people find you?

Chardet Ryel
Yeah, so I would say, if you've leaned more into the wellness mindset part of this, then you can find me on Feel Good Nakd podcast—naked without the E. And if you're more on the entrepreneurial business side, anti-hustle, you can find me on Her First 3 Years podcast. Those are also sites, if you want to check them out. So either way, whatever way you're leaning, and the conversations are always kind of unfiltered.

Jule Kim
But they're the best. That's why they're so fun to listen to. All right, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Chardet Ryel
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so honored to be the first guest, and I'm really excited. Everyone listening, this show is going to be big. We've been talking about no ego, but I'm going to say it. Get in early with your reviews.

Jule Kim
I'm not gonna say no to that. 

Jule Kim

Hey there. It's me again, dropping in to say how much I loved this conversation with Chardet. It was so rich, and honestly, it's one of those episodes where you pick up something new the second or third time around. So if any of this resonated, save it and come back to it. Or forward it if you have a friend who's burned out or stuck in that hustle mentality, because they might enjoy listening to this. At the very least, it's fun, so it might lower some stress. 

And if there's a topic you want me to cover on a future episode, text the link in the show notes. 

As always, I'm super duper grateful. Thank you so much for listening, and remember, I believe in you. See you next time.