From Policy to Advocacy: DaeSean Ashby’s Journey

In this episode, DaeSean Ashby, Director of State Advocacy at the Michigan Credit Union League, shares the journey that led him to MCUL and a career in politics. He reflects on the defining moment in college that first sparked his interest in public service and advocacy, and how that decision shaped his path forward. DaeSean also dives into his thoughtful approach to public speaking, emphasizing authenticity and connection. Along the way, we also share a personal update on the Camille's surgery earlier this year and reflect on the deep sense of gratitude we have for the credit union industry and the community it creates.

Throughout, this episode is a completely candid conversation—offering an honest look at leadership, communication, and navigating a complex political landscape.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome back to the collaborative, the podcast for young professionals in Michigan's credit unit world who are out here trying to connect to grow and basically take over the cooperative finance universe. One episode at a time. As always, we're powered by fuel Michigan. Because even podcasts. Whether you're tuning in on your commute, at your desk pretending to look very productive, or with a cup of coffee that may or may not be your second or your third. I'm just really glad you're here. I'm your host, Camille. So let's get into it before your coffee gets old. Today's conversation features Dayshawn Ashley, Director of State Advocacy at the Michigan Credit Union League. In this episode, Dayshawn shares a pivotal moment during his college years that sparked his path into politics and public service. He offers insight into how he approaches public speaking with authenticity and intention, along with his perspective on navigating a career in politics amid today's dynamic and often challenging political climate. Hi Deshaun, thank you for joining us today.

SPEAKER_04 1:03

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

I'm so excited. Talk to me about what you do at the MCUL. Because I I see you speak all over. But what do you do?

SPEAKER_04 1:13

Uh so I'm the director of state advocacy. I'm the guy that does like I interface with all of the state legislators in both the House and the Senate. Um, a lot of the political work, you know, whether that's working on legislation, defending against legislation, building those relationships. Yeah, I mean, that's that's pretty much the short end of it. Maybe we'll get to the long end as we talk.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

How did you start out with the credit union league?

SPEAKER_04 1:37

Man, that's a long question. Yeah, okay. So, and this kind of goes into like my whole bio and all that stuff too. But basically, when I was on the house policy staff in like 2020, I was a policy advisor and I was assigned to cover the financial services committee. So I had already had a little bit of a background in the industry and I knew, you know, Kieran, Haley, and Jordan. Um, I knew them all and I worked with them a little bit doing financial services stuff. Then when I left the house in 2022, I went to go be a contract lobbyist, hated it. I could tell you about that too, but I hated it. And once I figured out after a year that I hated being a contract lobbyist, um, I was kind of looking for other opportunities. And it just so happened that at the time Haley was leaving to go somewhere else. And like I mentioned, I already had a pretty good relationship with Kieran and Haley. I already knew about the industry. So Kieran and I, we had a conversation, went through the interview process and have been here ever since July of 23.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Nice. What's a contract lobbyist? I've never heard of that.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically, you know, there's the lobbyist like me, which is currently, which I'm your lobbyist. I just represent the credit unions. Okay, I don't represent nothing else. I don't have professional opinions on nothing else. As a contract lobbyist, you represent multiple different clients and multiple different interests. So when I was a contract lobbyist, like I I worked on education issues, I worked on healthcare issues, I worked on dog breeding. That's yeah, I have a random one. You know, you get random issues. Like you with when it comes to lobbying, there is an issue for every single thing. Like every single thing that exists, there's probably a lobbyist. If things are really good, maybe lobbyists helped you do that. If things really suck, that's probably lobbyists too. You know?

SPEAKER_00 3:33

They do it all, they do it all.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

They do it all. So yeah, I was a contract lobbyist. And the thing about that is like you you work on a whole bunch of different issues, so it's it's never really boring. Uh, you're always busy, but the problem is you're like uh what is it, an inch deep and a mile wide? Is that how they say it? Whatever that phrase is. Basically, you heard of it. Yeah, you know, one of those phrases where basically you you like touch a whole bunch of different issues, but because you are doing a whole bunch of issues, you can't really become an expert in them.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Like Jack of All Trades, Master of Nine.

SPEAKER_04 4:08

There we go. Yeah, yeah. So you can't like, you know, I'm not an expert in none of the areas except dog breeding. Um, that's not about me. That's that's a whole nother thing that we could get into. But but yeah, so I didn't like that line of work because I like I like being an expert. Like I like being a person who like can really go into the issues, and you just with that type of lobby, you don't have time, you don't have the bandwidth, the capacity. But with this association type, I only work one issue. I only work with you. So I can dig in deep as as far as I need to.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

I find it interesting, but like I've never I never even knew like how to even get into it.

SPEAKER_04 4:42

But like, what I mean, those are two different questions. Like, do you want to know how to get into it or do you want to know why I chose it?

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Why? Why you chose it? More than that.

SPEAKER_04 4:49

That's another long answer. Like, I go for it.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

We gotta try.

SPEAKER_04 4:52

Okay, because I'm not good at answering things short. So when I was a kid, I was like the the quintessential American exceptionalism indoctrination kid. Like, yeah, like I I love this country, you know what I mean? Like my grandma used to show me uh, you know, Civil War and World War II documentaries on floppy discs, right? And and even like despite everything through our through our history, I grew up learning that, you know, good always prevails and that the right side of things always wins. So take it to 2012. And and and this is you know, growing up, growing up in the recession, growing up in the war in Iraq, like I know that you share those as well. I grew up in Detroit, so I grew up under the 2011 bankruptcy, right? So despite all of those things, I'm like, you know what? This this country is amazing, we're gonna figure it out. So then in 2012, uh there was this very high profile murder. I don't know if you recall, and if you don't, that's fine. There was a gentleman, a kid named Trayvon Martin.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Oh, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I I always I always had like quite a bit of affinity for that situation because I just never forget as a I was also 17 during that time period. And I'll never forget how like the media portrayed this kid, you know, like you know, they showed him pictures of you know gang signs and like looking aggressive and things like that. And I'm like, I used to do that too. If you go through my Facebook from don't do it, but if you go through my all the way back, you'll see me doing some stuff too. And it's because like you grew up in the city, like you you gotta kind of play the part. If you if you don't look hard, then people think you're soft. And if people think you're soft, they kick on you.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

But I'm originally from Flint. Also you did it. I get it. And I moved to a small town out west, and I came back to Muskegon Heights, and I was just like, I don't know what to do. And I remember talking to one of the police officers here because I was like, I just want the 411 on this neighbor. He's giving you the creeps. And the guy was like, Where are you from? And I told him Flint, and then I moved and he goes, You need to buck up and bring back Flint. And I was like, Okay.

SPEAKER_04 6:58

Yeah, yeah, bring back Flint.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

But yeah, you have to have that exterior.

SPEAKER_04 7:03

You play you play a part, and that's what I felt like he was doing. But like really, he was he was a kid. Like you, you know, they never showed you the pictures of him getting his aerospace certificates and him, you know, just being with his family and stuff. And the fact that this Yeah, and the fact that this kid got killed for just walking in the wrong neighborhood, and then the guy got off. Like watching that like happen, that just kind of really that really rocked me, like, you know, in a place where it really questioned a lot of what I thought I knew about things. So then I didn't immediately decide to go into politics after, but that was when it was like, it's it's there. Like the idea for politics is there. My cat's crying, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

It's okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

But after that happened, you know, I immediately went to college and I was like, okay, like I wanna I wanna make a difference in these young men's lives. I don't know if I really want to go into politics because I don't really like them like that. I didn't really like politicians like that, especially because I grew up under the recession. I grew up under the bankruptcy, and a lot of those decisions were those were politicians, okay? I grew up under a city manager, something that you also know from from Flint, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:14

So I didn't trust polit So the double whammy of seeing, you know, the system completely fail with Trayvon Martin and growing up under the economic conditions that I grew up in, I didn't want to touch politics at all. But that was because I had so much distrust in me after that. But I went to college and it was one of those things where I changed my major a dozen different times, and I ended up falling back into politics because I think it's just the place that I I'm supposed to be in. You might recall that shortly after, you know, in 2014, that was when the Black Lives Matter movement started, and I was in college, and I'm around all these people that are like, he should have complied, and I'm like, oh no, screw this. And I I changed I changed my major, and I, like many people, were like, I'm gonna go into politics and go run for office and make a difference in the world.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

That's the way to do it though.

SPEAKER_04 9:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

I like that you know the single most like that that reason, Trayvon Martin was yeah, I think he was the catalyst for a lot of it in the world. And yeah, I I grew up in Flint and Lansing.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

And you grew up both in Flint and Lansing?

SPEAKER_00 9:21

So I in elementary school we switched over to Lansing, but I was in both. But I went to the schools where the little white girl was the minority. And that's why that's why I love m my my past is because I got to see all of that. And then I see these things happening, and I'm just like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 9:39

Yeah, it's different. And it's like a different culture too, like a different perspective, like being, you know, the minority, but also like, you know, benefiting institutionally, that is, from from like privilege, right? But you yourself probably not having that and living like you know, with your neighbors or your uh brothers and sisters of color. It's it's probably a wild thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

It is. I'm I think I'm like the only white person in my block, and I'm okay with that. Like I'm like, yeah, I'm I'm cool. I like my neighborhood.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

Cool, yeah. You hang out.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

It's like me and like both of my neighbors on both sides are older single white or black women that are grandmas, and so I know them all. We all talk all the time.

SPEAKER_04 10:18

That's cool, that's cool. See, yeah, you'd be down, you'd be down with me.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

We always do. What's it like now working? Cause I'm trying to think of a way to say this nicely. The political world right now is a little messed up.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

Oh, that's a word.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

What yeah, that's the nicest way I can say it. I'm I have a few choice words, but everything is constantly changing, especially in the finance world and this administration in general. What how the hell do you keep up? And like how do you manage mental health and all of that? Because that's gotta be stressful.

SPEAKER_04 10:48

It is, that's a good question. And I gotta make sure how I answer certain questions because I don't want to get fired when my boss lists to this. Jokes aside. Nah, nah, I want you to keep the most authentic and you know, but it they'll be fine. You gotta set boundaries, honestly. So, you know, last year, and you know, obviously we we at MCUO, we are, you know, we're bipartisan and all that stuff, but you know, some things are just harder than others. We're all people and we all have our opinions. And, you know, so after the 2024 election went the way that it went, you know, I'm always hoping that even if somebody, you know, whether it's our our presidents or you know, representatives, whoever, even if they have a different vision than I do, I'm always hoping that they come and they do good things, you know, for everybody. Because when when our leaders fail, they fail us. Okay, we we saw what happened when COVID happened. Like that was that was a breakdown of leadership at all at so many levels. So, you know, the president's vision of this country is different than my own, but I found and I feel that he's not governing for everyone. He's not even governing for most people. He he's he seems to be governing for a very specific group of people, and that's been very challenging for me. So last year, uh I mean, I used to post on social media a lot, uh, because you know, I have I have very good relationships across the aisle, and I think that I think that I can usually, you know, speak to people. Like a lot of times when people are talking about politics, they're talking at people. I feel like I could speak to people and we can have conversations around difference and you know I can understand and so on and so forth. So I used to use my platform to speak out a lot. And again, like this was something that, you know, I've always been empowered to do in my role. It's not, it's not anything that I've ever been told not to do. I found that I was just getting upset. You know, I would see something, I would be upset, and I would talk about it. And even if the response was good, it's just I'm hurting myself. And in my line of work, you know, I'm I have to not only be good with people who I disagree with, I need those people to be good with me as well. You know, I can't walk into, you know, I I need to be able to walk into every room and have the respect that I carry for my job and the respect for myself. And I can't do that if I'm popping off on social media about everything, right? I can't do that. You know, some of the some of the Republican offices are gonna be like, you're you are a filthy, stinking Democrat. Get out, right? I can't do that. So what I ended up having to do is for my own sake, not not just for my job, but also for my own mental health, is I started setting boundaries for myself. I decided that if there was something that happened that I felt like I needed to speak out about or talk to, that I wouldn't put my thoughts out there anymore. I would go to people, you know, like you got your friend group or or people that you're close to. I decided to set boundaries on how much politics I consume. Because as a person who, you know, I work in politics, I study politics, like I live it. And, you know, like I have a master's in this thing. So even, you know, my friends and family, like whenever something happens, I'm the first person that they always want to come to engage their opinions. And I've just had to start saying no. Like, I'm I'm not gonna do this, I'm not gonna talk about it. I don't do politics on the weekends. Like, uh, you know, I might like scroll through the news because I like to see what's happening, but I'm not talking about politics on the weekend. I'm not ranting about anything on the weekend. I've significantly limited my social media time um because all of that stuff is designed to upset you, regardless on what side of the aisle you're on.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

It's algorithms are just Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:34

The algorithms, yeah, we're the product. Like they're designed to make you mad. So I've I've limited that. I don't have Facebook on my phone. Love Reddit, stay on Reddit. Yeah, love me some Reddit.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

You can go down some rabbit holes. I've read it. There's there's been a few times I'm like, yeah, I'm done with this now because it's four hours later and what?

SPEAKER_04 14:51

The only rabbit hole I go down on Reddit these days is 90-day fiance, okay? That's one of my favorite shows out right now. So every time there's a new episode, I'm like, I'm like, okay, like, why is Laura acting like this? And I just I just be there with the girls talking about 90-day fiance. But but I mean, even stuff like that, though, like, like once I decided that I wasn't gonna be on social media like that, that I wasn't gonna consume politics to the degree that I was, and that I was gonna set boundaries with myself, I started doing more things that I like to do. You know, I started watching TV. I started reading, playing my games. And it helps me. It helps me in my relationships. I'm much happier with those boundaries. And, you know, some sometimes legislators say things that I disagree with on social media, and it's fine. I'm like, that's you. It's got nothing to do with me.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah, it's a good way of doing it.

SPEAKER_04 15:42

Definitely boundaries are why to have boundaries, especially with times like this. And and on the internet, like nobody that's the other thing on the internet, and this goes for like both sides. People do not, you don't go on the internet to have a constructive conversation.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

No, you go on the internet to argue. Well, a lot of people do.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

Yep, you go there to argue, you go there to dunk, to do all of these things. And like, even though I have my beliefs, I'm a person that likes to have a constructive conversation. Like, and I like to be shown different perspectives from a from a good faith, right? Like if somebody like genuinely believes something and we're just having a regular conversation, good faith, that's great. And that's what it's about, you know, connecting with people instead of all of this online nonsense.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Yeah, there are I have a few friends who we don't necessarily see eye to eye on certain topics. And so when it comes up, or it's in the news of one of the topics that they see differently than I do, especially my friend Jen, she'll message me and she'll say, say, since I know you're on this side of this topic.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

No.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

What can you help give me pers Well, she asked for perspective more than anything else. Why is this doom coming in? Goodness gracious.

SPEAKER_04 16:58

So they're like, Yeah, I know you're on this side, so I want to get your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Yeah, and that and that's what we do all the time. Um and just like, hey, or I'll message her and say, Hey, can you give me per some perspective? Why is this such a big deal? Or why is this happening? And those are the conversations that I prefer because the moment and I've I've been like this my whole life. The moment you're gonna try to attack me on something or raise your voice, I'm like, no, no, no, no. We're not doing this. And I feel like as amazing as social media is and the internet is, it has created a lack of empathy.

SPEAKER_04 17:32

Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

In our community.

SPEAKER_04 17:34

Yeah, I mean it you you don't look at people as people and you don't you don't care. You're just you just look at them as a different internet entity. It's it's weird.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah, it's I don't I don't understand it.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

I mean, that type of relationship that you have with your friend is like similar to one that I have with Todd, for example, on our team. You know, our federal director. Like Todd, you know, he he grew up in uh Republican politics. I came up in Dem politics. And, you know, we talk politics all the time. Like every like we go into the office and we sit and you know, I'll ask him questions, he asks me questions. That's one of my best friends, man. Like I I love Todd because, you know, talking with him, it reminds you, and this is to your point about like people not seeing, you know, like the empathy. You know, at the end of the day, it's about being a good person. It's about it's about being a good person, a kind person, right? And you could have whatever your beliefs are. But what at the end of the day, what matters is how you treat people. And I look at people like Todd who like him and I disagree on like we actually we actually agree on quite a few things, but I'd say we disagree on maybe like 80% of the issues. But like, that's a good dude, man. Like, that's somebody who like loves his family, he cares for his family, he respects everybody. Like, like those are the things that matter. So when and and I've I know people who agree with me who I think are terrible people.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:58

You know, so I just uh when you talk to people, you really learn those differences. And as long as you're like a good person with you know stand-up values and you just treat everybody equally with empathy, we can have a conversation.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Yeah, that's how I feel with my friends and there there's been a lot of a lot of arguing over the last year or two, and it's just it gets exhausting.

SPEAKER_04 19:20

It's probably gonna get worse. Okay, apologies. I am valued.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

I had a question in the memory, because that's where it's Friday and my brain is. The other thing is I've seen you around and you're at all the MC Well events, and you're a really great speaker.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

How? How did you develop that? Is that something you practice or do you like it? What talk to me about that?

SPEAKER_04 19:48

Oh man, thank you. Uh you know, I be nervous every time. Like I I'm so nervous whenever I whenever I speak in front of people. I don't know. I just kinda I remember and I I've been in speaking roles for a while. The two things that I do is one, I like lean pretty I lean on my personality. Um, I think about I think about what I like to see when people are speaking to me, you know? So if I'm an audience member, I don't like when someone comes up and they're like, I am the such and such, and let me read you my resume. And I've done all of these great things, and now I'm gonna sit here and I'm gonna talk at you for an hour, and I'm gonna treat you like you don't know anything. I don't like that. I hate those types of things. I like to engage people, and I I know that this type of topic isn't always the most interesting, and it's as we've just talked about, pretty controversial. So I like to just kind of try to use my socialness. That's probably not the word, but I just try to relax people with my demeanor. The other thing is I know that when I'm talking, you are looking at me as an expert. So as long as I feel like I'm the expert, you don't even know if I mess up. You know, like I could, I could just lie. I don't, I don't, but I don't know. I just I I just get comfortable with the fact that oh, my dog has made an appearance. Yeah, she's let me see. She's right there.

unknown 21:16

Hi.

SPEAKER_04 21:17

Lady girl, sorry, I got a TV box in the background. But yeah, I just kinda I kind of look at it as like I'm the egg I'm the subject matter expert. Y'all are relying on me to give you good information to educate you, and I just kind of like take that responsibility and I take it seriously. I don't know if that's a good answer of how I I think it is. Thank you. I mean, because I I'm nervous every single time.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

You don't look at it.

SPEAKER_04 21:41

Thank you. Every single time. But I and I'm always like taking mental notes about ways I can be better. Like one thing that I've been striving to be better on is the quality of my PowerPoints because I hate PowerPoints, they're not great. I kind of put some stuff together and then I'd be like, all right, I'm gonna talk. Through it. But then I think you were at this one the fuel thing last year with Haley. Haley had a great PowerPoint.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

It was so pretty and so good. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_04 22:10

Yeah, it was great. And I don't think she likes I'm not going to speak for her, but I don't know if she likes public speaking like that. She did a good job. Yeah, she did a great job. She had a great PowerPoint. And you know, I'm watching, I'm learning from my colleagues, and I'm like, okay, it's it's more than just it's more than just putting things up for y'all to stare at. It also helps keep you on track. And as a person who has ADHD, I need some, you know, yeah, I see it in your face. I need some things to keep me on track. So I've been trying to get better at the quality of my PowerPoints. I had a presentation a couple weeks ago at a conference, and Patty was there, and she gave me some constructive feedback as well, because um whenever I mess up, I will self-deprecate, for example. I think that's kind of a generational thing personally, but yeah, you know, like you mess up and and you don't want to break your, you don't want to break your confidence or your immersion, so you just kind of self-deprecate. And Patty's like, you could do that, but you know, don't do it as much because you're like, we want people to know that like you're a badass subject matter expert. Her words, not mine. So yeah, I'm I'm always just kind of I'm always evaluating, tweaking, figuring out what works and what doesn't. And you know, I just want to be better. I just want to deliver the best I can.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

I remember, so I remember seeing you last year at that at Pack the Pub. I had said something about ADHD, and we talked about it very briefly.

SPEAKER_04 23:32

Yeah, you said you could tell I had it.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

And the next the next day, we're sitting there and you go to announce at GAC, and you're like, so somebody pointed out I had EDT and I sat there and I was like, Yep. And Tara looks, Tara Lovelo looks at me, she's like, come you on. I was like, in my defense, he started the conversation. That was okay. Like, and she's like, you can't just and I was like, my bad, my bad.

SPEAKER_04 23:55

It's a vulnerability that I think is important. And that's another thing. I I'm okay with acknowledging and pointing out, you know, my vulnerabilities or places where, you know, I mean, we're all human and we all got our things. And I just remember being younger, looking at people that are in my position now and looking at them and being like, you're perfect, you have everything figured out, and like I could never do that. And now that I'm in this position, it's like, no, I'm not, I'm not perfect. I don't have everything figured out. I got debt, my credit ain't that good. So I don't know. I I I like to I like to demystify the idea of like professionals and these types of roles and make it just more human.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

I think that as a millennial, we're doing right in just all over any millennial I see. We're pretty much, you know, professionalism looks a little bit different. Now you can see tattoos, facial piercings a little bit more, hair color more, and it's it's not as perfect. No. And I like that because nobody is right.

SPEAKER_04 24:59

Mm-hmm. And we're still putting out good work.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

For the most part.

SPEAKER_04 25:03

Yeah, well, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

We have our moments.

SPEAKER_04 25:06

We all have our moments. I have a thousand yard stare when I forget things, and Kieran just laughs at me because again, it's the ADHD. Like, so I'll it'll be like, like this literally happened three times the other day. Somebody was like, Oh yeah, Deshaun, are you gonna uh talk to me about X, Y, and Z? And I was just like, I just like stare at you with the thousand yard stare because I don't know what you're talking about. And then then they remind me, I'm like, Oh, yeah, it's on my calendar, it's gotta get done.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

But it's like Tara, if Tara and I are in a meeting and I start, like, I always have a piece of paper that I doodle on or a coloring book sometimes, and I like and I I stay engaged, I can do it. But like I need to, but she'll see if like I'm jumping ahead and then she'll just stop. And the silence after a few seconds, I'm like, huh? I'm just like, okay, let's continue.

SPEAKER_04 25:53

Apparently, I've read somewhere like that, like doodling actually helps you pay attention more.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Yeah. All of if you see me at a conference, you will see me doodling in my notebook, and I'll be flipping back and forth between the doodles and my notes. Like, I just because I can't- Do you go back to doodles?

SPEAKER_04 26:07

Like, do you start a doodle and then go back to one?

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 26:09

Oh man, yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

All of all of my uh like notebooks that I get at conferences, those are pretty much for doodling. I love it. Cause that's just I don't think I have yeah. The one my I have a different one each year, but like I just sit there and that's how I I I'm lucky that my coworkers kind of know that. And I've sat in a meeting before, just like in a staff meeting, and my coworker has just handed me whatever's in her hand to just like That's nice. Thanks, guy. Sorry. Don't don't mean to be that way, but and if it's not on my Outlook calendar, it it doesn't exist in my world.

SPEAKER_04 26:45

It doesn't exist. I completely agree. It if it's not there, it doesn't exist. Now, if it is there, I'm gonna do it. I probably won't remember until I see the notification pop up, and then I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

I did that uh yesterday. We have the moon chapter legislative update this evening. Yes, and Justin Bamford texts me, Tara, and uh Jesse R. Marketing and said, Hey, today, blah, blah, blah, this time, and I was like, What are you talking about? And I had to call Tara and I was like, What is Justin talking about? She goes, Oh, the legislative update. And I went, I forgot to put that on my calendar.

SPEAKER_02 27:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Like, and it's that out of sight, out of mind, and projects, which reminds me I had a project two yesterday and I forgot to turn it in. So that's gonna be happening after this.

SPEAKER_04 27:30

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Like it just the out of sight, that is what's I think that's the worst with ADHD for me.

SPEAKER_04 27:38

But that's why you gotta write it down. Like write it down.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

That's why I went and I was like, Can I order a whiteboard for my office at home? Because I will forget.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Mm-hmm. Same here.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

So what other things do you you like doing about the job? What other I mean, you go you said before you get paid to drink with politicians. But like what else and and other than public speaking, what else what what else do you do with going for work?

SPEAKER_04 28:04

I mean, those are also two different questions. You know, no, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

I had a lot of caffeine today, so I I get it.

SPEAKER_04 28:12

You can eat that. Uh I get well, I'll say I'll say what I love about the job and then the other things I do. So and this is weird. Believe it or not, I'm actually not a people person. I know that that probably doesn't come off right, but I like I'm so antisocial. Like I love being at home. I hate outside. Everything see, this is I knew we'd get along. Like, just outside, it's just ugh. And then like, like I agree to go to a Kentucky Derby party tomorrow. And maybe you do this too at ADHD too. Like maybe like sometimes somebody will ask you about something or if you want to do something, and then he is, and then you get really excited, and you're like, oh yeah, and then you automatically agree, and then it comes and you're like, man, so it's an ADHD thing, but it's yeah, so now I gotta do that tomorrow. And I'm like, oh man, I gotta go find me a seersucker suit. But I digress. Uh despite my anti-socialist, I actually I I do love meeting the people, and I know those don't always match, but I love talking to people. Dang it, I'm contradicting myself. I hate I love talking to people sometimes. But I'm at work.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

That's how I am. Like at work, I love talking to people. I like seeing where they are, I like meeting people, I like the networking aspect of it. But then I just want to go home and be left alone.

SPEAKER_04 29:29

There it is. You got it, Camille.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

Like, let me recharge.

SPEAKER_04 29:32

Yes. At work, social butterfly. At home, leave me alone. I'm playing my game.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:38

Yes. So, yeah. So when I'm at work, I like I like building relationships, talking to people because this, and this is kind of similar to what uh you have going on with the YP program, but I run a less organized version, but something that's still coming up. I run a similar group called the rising lobbyists of of Michigan. So similar, less organized. We're getting there. We're just it's just really, really busy. But you know, just younger isn't the word. Like people who are newer to lobbying. So the way that I structured the group is it, you know, for lobbyists who have been lobbying for 10 years or under, right? And most of the time, that includes, you know, people who are younger, but there are some people who just get into the industry a little bit older. We want to be inclusive, all of that good stuff. But I I recognize when talking to, you know, the newer lobbyists and the younger staffers and things like that. Like I recognize that, you know, we we're the future of this, right? You know, we're the future CEOs, the future representatives, lobby partners, like whatever the case may be. So I love building those relationships with people ahead of time, um, the same way that those who came before me did. Uh so that's one of my favorite things at work. The legislators, yeah, you you know, you do get paid to have the drinks, but uh it's also just part of the relationship building, right? I I do think that some of my favorite interactions with legislators have been, you know, over a glass of wine or a happy hour, but that's that's anybody, right? Like, you know, you get to be a little bit more loose and everybody's just chilling. I love that part. And then as far as my job, some of the other things I really like is I love I love how like seeing how the sausage is made, right? Seeing the internals and watching the process happen. I I understand that this is a and it, you know, it doesn't seem like it, but being in the position that I'm in, like actively engaging with state politics, with state legislators, it is a privilege. It's not something that a lot of people get to do. And even if you're a political science student, right, like you only got one of two places to go. You're either going to Lansing or DC, and DC is expensive. And Lansing is Lansing, as you know. So it's it's a really privileged spot. And I love everything that I do. I love, you know, watching the bill process. I love being part of the bill process, and I love seeing bills that I've worked on become law. I love being able to go to our credit unions and say, we got you a hundred million dollars in CDFI funding. Like the the results of your work is what drives me to do it every single day.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

I had no idea you did as much as you do.

SPEAKER_04 32:15

What you thought I just drank with lobbyists?

SPEAKER_00 32:17

I mean that's all I thought you did. No.

SPEAKER_04 32:19

Oh, man, I be working. Come on.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

I think you did.

SPEAKER_04 32:23

Yeah, you listen to the state updates. We we be getting y'all money, we be passing bills. We we kill bills. Like we the amount of bills that we kill, come on, man. We we grinded, we're like one of the best in the game.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Good. Because we kind of need it.

SPEAKER_04 32:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Especially with how our future is looking right now.

SPEAKER_04 32:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Kind of need credit unions around.

SPEAKER_04 32:44

Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why we are working on modernizing our act at the moment, you know, for those reasons itself. And it looks like it's going pretty well, but the divided government and like government itself is a mess at at all levels. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

It always is. It's never gonna be never not gonna be.

SPEAKER_04 33:03

So we just we just remain flexible and we work through what we need to work through. I can't believe you thought I just drank. Like, I do think.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

No, I know better than that. You put together wonderful.

SPEAKER_04 33:14

No, they're better. They're better now. You should have seen my newest powerpoint. I was proud of that one.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

If it was at the U Conference, I saw that one.

SPEAKER_04 33:21

Yeah, you see, you did because I was there. That was a good PowerPoint outside of the parts where I like missed some things, but it was funny watching Lisa come up and you're just like, okay. Oh man, she was holding me hostage.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

She's a force to be reckoned with.

SPEAKER_04 33:34

She's great, but she was I was like, yo, can I go? I just got done talking for a half hour, man. Like, let me leave.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

I just want that kind of energy that early in the morning. Like, that's all I Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:45

Oh my god, I was dog tired that day. I I was out late. I was dog tired, and I got up and I was like, oh well, you just kinda you just kind of put it together. I when I used to be I used to be in the Navy reserves, uh, but I was only active duty like, I don't know, six months. So you get up at uh 6 a.m. every day, and I developed this method to always get up because if you don't get up in the military, you get yelled at, or worse, they pull out this little white card and they make you do exercises on it until they get tired, not until you get tired. Pretty messed up. Yeah. So after having that happen to me a couple times, I was like, all right, I'm gonna count down from 10, no matter how tired I am. As soon as I get to one, I'm gonna get up. And I've done it every day for the last 10 years. And I get when I'm tired, I just get up. Yeah, before that presentation, I was like, oh my god, I'm so tired of dying. And then I got up there and I was like, good morning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Yeah, you look tired until the end of the day.

SPEAKER_04 34:42

Brutally exhausted.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

I feel like that's how I am at any conference, and then I just I come home and I de-stress for like don't talk to me, don't do anything. Like I usually take the day off after. If the conference is in the middle of the week, I usually take the day off after because Oh, that's smart. I I can't. The ace, I'm I'm out of the game for like three days. Don't contact me, don't do anything. I just want to sleep and recharge and not people.

SPEAKER_04 35:13

You know, the thing about Ace for Kieran and I is the week before is the Mackinac Policy Conference. So yeah, so Kieran and I are usually gone from there on Tuesday, from Tuesday through Friday. Then you got well, Friday's mostly gone because you have to drive from Mackinac. So then you got Saturday, Sunday, and then Monday we go out to Ace Monday to Friday. So it's like two weeks back to back. So after that, it's like, all right, I'm taking like a week and a half PTO, man. I can't. That's a lot of conferencing.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

That's a lot of people in at Southwest.

SPEAKER_04 35:45

Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Well, usually when I get antisocial, you can tell. Because sometimes, like, as much as I could put it on, sometimes you know how it is. Sometimes you're just like, no, I can't. So I just kind of sit in the corner, and I will be noticeably like it'll be noticeable that I want to be left alone. I don't just sit in the corner. I'm a business, just leave me alone for a little bit. Or when Kieran and I are at an event, and because he talks to everybody. You think I talk to everybody? He talks to everybody forever. Sometimes I just leave him.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Bye. See you later.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

Sometimes I just leave him. Like I don't leave the event. But sometimes I'll like go into a corner and then I'll just sit there and then I'll just have my phone out and I'll wait for him to text me. Where'd you go? And I'll be watching him too. Like I'll watch him look for me. And he's over here going like, Yeah, I'll just watch him and I'll even say nothing. Just watch him look for me. And then after five minutes, I'll be like, I'm over here.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

We yeah. That's what I do. Like at Ace, even I'll go and I'll sit down and I have the Kindle lab on my phone and I'll just read for a little bit and then and then go in and yeah, we have we have group chats of where are you? What's going on? Who's this? Okay, I'm going to my room. And like that's that's how you have to do it sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 36:56

Mm-hmm. Those boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

That's what I did uh at the U conference was I went back to my room more well more than usual just because I had to ice and elevate my ankle.

SPEAKER_04 37:07

Oh, what happened, you fall?

SPEAKER_00 37:08

No, I had I had some rough surgery in January. I had a total ankle replacement of the joint, and then they fused my heel bone to the bottom of my ankle bone, and then they strengthened my Achilles tendon.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

What? Oh my god, wait, wait, wait. You got a whole new ankle. What are are you good? What happened? Did anything happen?

SPEAKER_00 37:28

So I this was my third ankle surgery in 14 years. Basically, I was young and dumb. I'm the person who needs a bubble. Like anytime I hurt myself, my friends yell at you need a bubble.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

Um and you can't go outside. I sprained my ankle when I was a kid really bad and thought I didn't need to do anything, and then continued spraining it. So in like 12, I sprained it really bad, and I saw a specialist, and he was like, Your tendons are shot, you need to have it reconstructed. So I had surgery where they detached my tendons, shortened them, reattached from the whole of mine yards, lost range of motion in my foot. And then in 2018, which I remember because it was my first year at Harbor Light, uh, I went to move my ankle and a bone popped out. Uh-uh. And I was like, what is happening? I had a bone spur. So I had gone in and had surgery. And then uh December 2024, I had to have a knee scope. I I tore my meniscus really bad, and so I had to go in and have it cleaned out. And uh that was on a Tuesday. The Friday before I fell on ice in downtown Muskegon and I sprained my ankle. I went to the urgent care and I was like, Can I just have a knee surgery? Like, that's all I care about. My surgeon walks into the OR on Tuesday and he said, So I see you were in urgent care this weekend. And I said, Yeah. And he said, We're gonna talk about your ankle at post sound. And I went, Great, love this. So he sent me to an ankle specialist. I was bone on bone. And usually they do a fusion before they try to stabilize it, before they do the ankle replacement. But because my joint was so deteriorated and because there was no stability, I had to do them both at one time. And then while he was in surgery, he decided, oh, let's see if I can fix Heracles. And so they just added that on because you know, adding something on in surgery is just great. Yeah, so it was six weeks of no walking and learning how to re-walk again with it. Um, so by the time you conference came around, I was walking, but I'd only been walking like three weeks at that point. So I would just go up on lunch, I'd eat my lunch, and then I'd go up and I'd lay back and ice and elevate. And uh so I'll probably still be doing that uh ace to be honest, because still swelling and yeah, how are you feeling now? Good, still a lot of pain. Uh-uh. Yeah, do not recommend.

SPEAKER_04 39:46

I'm glad you're not a good recommendation. All right, the best that you can.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

That sounds that sounds Yeah, and um luckily at Harbor Light has been amazing and I worked fully remote because usually I go in the office one day a week and I was fully remote. One of our board members brought me lunch one day.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Home?

SPEAKER_00 40:04

I was having trouble with pain control because I can't have a lot of pain medicine, and so they didn't want to prescribe me what I could have, and so trying to find a pain control. Um and I had posted on Facebook after like six days, I was like, guys, this is really tough on my mental health. Can like people come over or call me or like do something? I have I have our board member, Anna, uh, on my Facebook, and she instantly called me and she brought me pizza from Sam's club for lunch and some snacks, and uh a few co-workers came by and stopped by and my my co-worker Maggie, who is a very good friend, she would go and pick up my medicine for me or my debit card. Two of my debit cards were compromised in like twelve hours of each other, so she brought me my new cards and yeah, it's it's been an adventure, so but I'm not limping anymore.

SPEAKER_04 40:52

That's good. And I'm glad you got those people around you too.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Yeah, it's Justin, our CEO, is he reached out um when I had my knee surgery, actually. I had it a few days before my birthday in December, and he texted me on my birthday saying, Hey, happy birthday, do you need me to come shovel your sidewalk or bring you groceries?

SPEAKER_02 41:09

Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

And I was like, he's amazing. And I don't I can't think of another industry that I would work in that those would be my leadership.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Checking in on me. Like, what? He made me cry.

SPEAKER_04 41:23

I mean, and you could see it, like you could see it at at all of the conferences, and obviously, you know, there's different uh leadership styles, but like you could see the amount of uh care and love and affection that's present in this industry.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Yeah, I I think it's something that we I hope we never take advantage of it.

SPEAKER_04 41:40

I hope not either.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

I mean, I come from I did retail. I didn't think I'd do anything but retail. And so when I when I came into the credit union space and what what was it retail?

SPEAKER_04 41:52

What's retail? Like recalibration. Retail. Retail. Oh, okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Sorry, dry mouth. Um but when I get called into somebody's office just to check to how you're doing, I was like, Am I in trouble?

SPEAKER_04 42:02

Yeah, it's weird.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

It took me like and still sometimes I'm like, What'd I do?

SPEAKER_04 42:07

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Or you get that random text, hey, can I talk to you?

SPEAKER_00 42:11

What it has taken me so long to write, especially with certain people, Tara and Stephanie, our CEO, are the two that, hey, do you have a second? And they use perfect punctuation. And hey, do you have a moment to connect? And it has taken me the better half of eight years now to be like, that's just how they type. It's not because they're mad at you. You haven't done anything. I still haven't gotten here.

SPEAKER_04 42:36

Like, I I you know, because that's that's the way that uh Kieran texts as well. And like, you know, I mean, we're we're friends out outside of the work thing. So it's like, but he'll be like, that's fine, period. I'll be like, it's not fine.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

Nothing's fine.

SPEAKER_04 42:51

It's not fine. He's he's upset. I'm gonna get fired tomorrow. Uh and and like we we mentioned that to him before, too. He's just he's Gen X, but we mentioned that to him before. We're like, yo, like it's just why do you use the punctuation? Like, I don't know. And he's like, that's just how I take. So like, okay, I mean, it's as long as you know, as long as we're good.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Yeah, that's I think also that's a millennial thing in general for a younger one because I mean I grew up with AIM and MSN Messenger and all of that. And it was just like the short, and the other one I see a lot is lol. It's like it wouldn't be a millennial message without lol at that.

SPEAKER_04 43:25

Yeah, I got some Gen Z friends and they they make fun of us about that. Uh they're like, they're like, you put LOL at the end of every text. And I've been I've been like so conscious of that. But then like my girlfriend, she's also a millennial, but she's like a couple years older than me. She's like two or three years older than me. And she does it. So now I'd be like, bro, it's not funny. Like, you don't we don't need the lol at every text. Like, you just gotta say it. So I think Gen Z has a point on that one.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

They do, to a degree. I mean, there's a legitimate LOL.

SPEAKER_04 43:54

Yeah, I mean, when there's a legit LOL, the U L O L it. But I I think Gen Z has a point. But Gen Z, they say So focused on being cool. Like they're all streamers and TikTokers. I just that was really old head of me.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

My favorite is asking uh my little cousins uh what their current uh slang is because she is she's and she'll do all these things and I'm like hey that was us too though.

SPEAKER_04 44:18

I know that was us too.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

When the hell did I get to my mid-30s and completely I know we're we're old.

SPEAKER_04 44:24

We're old, Camille. I mean, that's what happened.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

I don't like it.

SPEAKER_04 44:28

We're old.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

No.

SPEAKER_04 44:29

That was us too. We used to say it's a real swag.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

I want to grow up and work in an office, and now I'm like, eh.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

I could just, you know, chill on a beach, it'd be fine.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

So, well, thank you for joining me and having this conversation. I really appreciate it. It's nice to see you outside of a conference and like get to know you more than just this political speaker.

SPEAKER_04 44:56

Yeah, likewise, yeah. Outside of politics, I'm actually really cool.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

Ooh now. Thank you again.

SPEAKER_04 45:01

Yeah, thank you.