The Adventure Habits Podcast
Welcome to the Splash Maps Adventure Habit Pods for those improving lives through adventure. I'm your host David Overton and co-founder of Splash Maps where we're privileged to equip some of the finest adventurers for the most diverse, often extreme and always inspiring adventures in the world. I've grown so much in the regular interactions I've had with adventurers, each with their own different aims, their own take on adventure.
The Adventure Habits Podcast
Episode 28 - Jason Rawles, Embers Bushcraft, supporting those protecting us
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Supporting Mental Health and Adventure: Jason Reeves of Embers Woodcraft
In this episode, David Overton chats with Jason Reeves, a retired firefighter and veteran, about how Embers Woodcraft supports those affected by PTSD through nature-based programs and adventure. Discover how outdoor activities, campfires, and tailored experiences can aid in mental health recovery and prevention.
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction: Jason Reeves’ background and Embers Woodcraft
02:01 - Transition from fire service and military; links to mental health support
03:16 - Nature and campfires as therapeutic environments
05:28 - Challenges faced by veteran and emergency service personnel
07:22 - Creating a supportive and open atmosphere for mental health discussions
08:41 - Successful trips and experiences in Scotland and Sweden
10:03 - Embers’ program in minus 25 degrees in Swedish tundra
12:06 - Upcoming trips and the importance of bonding and healing in nature
13:51 - The UK adventure calendar and weather conditions
14:23 - Nutrition and proper gear for demanding outdoor activities
24:43 - The importance of informing others and safety planning during adventures
27:42 - Staying open to change and adapting plans in response to conditions
28:39 - Supporting those with PTSD and mental health challenges through adventure
29:02 - The significance of perspective and broadening outlooks in recovery
30:10 - The ingredient mix of nature, community, and humor for well-being
31:33 - How listeners can support Embers’ work and donations
32:08 - Closing remarks and future opportunities to connect
Hello and welcome to another edition of Adventure Habits with me, David Overton and Splash Maps. And uh today, well, you know what this the format of this is. Uh, we like to invite along some great adventurers to share their adventure habits with you so that you can adventure more frequently and better. And today there is no one better than Jason Reeves uh to join us. Uh Jason is is a veteran, he runs a business called Ember's Woodcraft, and uh his business is set up to support people suffering from PTSD, whether that's from uh the 999 forces or it's the military. Um, Jason, I am so thrilled to have you on the show. Having met you at dozens of different uh uh uh different uh festivals and occasions and adventure, but where people adventurous get together. Um but today I'm so looking forward to learning more about you. And uh why don't you just tell us about yourself a bit and then how Embers came about?
SPEAKER_00Okay. Um so I'm I'll start at the end and then but work back the other way. So I'm now happily retired from from Camp Fire Brigade, um, and this has kind of slowly evolved into a full-time job with me. So I did pretty much 30 years with the Fire Brigade. Before that, I did a stint working on the Oil Rigs in the North Sea, and then before that I was in the 2nd Battalion, the Parachute Regiment. Um so jumping on to what you said, the the people that we help. Um, you know, I've got links with several different services, um, and I think that's a massive part in the success of what we're starting to do at the moment, really.
SPEAKER_01Really? So it it it comes from right across the board of those people that will be in service, uh helping others, getting into dangerous situations, being the um the guys who run to the guns, run to the sound of the guns, I guess.
SPEAKER_00I suppose so. I mean I'm not I mean I left in '92, so I I can't profess to have done Afghanistan and Iraq and everything else. We did I did a short stint in Northern Ireland, but I didn't um sort of face those different uh trials and tribulations like a lot of the guys have that um we we meet today. Um some of my mental health stuff probably came through the fire brigade. Um, you know, we go to obviously lots of different jobs, some of them not so pleasant. Think it works, the mental health thing works a different way through the fire brigade personally. Um I find a lot of the people that we've had to us that are military, uh a lot of the time it's it's quite um kinetic and and dramatic uh things that have affected them. Whereas with the fire brigade, I feel over 30-year period it's it's a it's a layer of events, you know, going to g different car crashes and and and and things that are very nice and and house fires and stuff. But it you can deal with the individual event, but when you have lots of those events piled on top, it it it fills your cup a little bit. Um and at Embers we try and drop the level of the cup by about an inch basically. Um we don't profess to um what's the word? We don't we can't fix people, we we don't therapise them, if you like. Um we find the the setting that we provide you know in nature um we've all got that black humour in common. There's you know when I do my safety brief at the beginning, there's no um I state there's no political correctness here. If um no one as long as there's no bullying, obviously, you know, we make sure that doesn't happen and it never has done. Um but uh the the the topics that people talk about around the fire, especially when they're ex-military, police, fire brigade, they can be as free as you like, as long as no one's being affected, obviously.
SPEAKER_01It sounds like a really open atmosphere that you you're going for there. And I mean, in in your experience, uh I mean I know that the services that you offer are completely free. Um so those who are able to help Jason in this quest, uh, please, you know, if you can help, do help. That's uh donations, people. Um but it's also for people who need help. We know we get both on this podcast, so um so do so do get in touch with Jason via all the links that we'll put at the bottom of this. But Jason, I wanted to ask you, um, do you think that uh veterans of not just the military but veterans of the fire services, all the 999 services, do you think they get properly uh looked after? Are they properly um addressed by the places that have put them into that position?
SPEAKER_00Um in my experience, um no, I don't believe they are properly looked after in a in a what what we do is is sort of a sad and happy thing. So I I I'm I'm happy that we're successful when we're helping these people, but I think it's a little bit sad that we are because I feel that lots of the bigger services are letting their workforce down at the uh on the front line basically. I mean I don't know how it is when you leave the military anymore. I left in 1992, um, but it was literally you know, bag on my shoulder out the back gate, and that was it. Um my experience in the fire service and it everybody's different, so I'm only speaking for myself and some of the people that have come to me, obviously. But the mental health, um I found that it was very much a tick in the box by management, um, so that they could go back to their um the people above them and say, look, this is what we're doing. You know, they'd have the the right posters on a fire station saying ring this number, ring that number, but no actual proper contact with the people that that on the front line, you know, like the firemen on the fire, sorry, firefighters on the fire engines and stuff like that. Um and various people have come to us, either military or otherwise, and where they haven't found success themselves is where they've been in a more clinical environment, like a uh a therapist's room, perhaps. That's not I'm not knocking therapists, everybody's got their place. But when some of these guys sit in a room that's like a white room with diplomas on the wall and very clever books and everything else, and the guy or or the lady that's talking to them tries to empathise, but there's nothing in common because they've not seen some of that stuff, um it it doesn't work i i in some instances. Whereas for us, um uh it's everything is based around a campfire. Um we're underneath a parachute canopy, we provide a um some sort of an interest lesson, and that could be anything. I mean, we're really lucky. I mean, last year we had a young lady called Annesley Park come to us, she's 28, I believe. She'll probably correct me, um, and she had just single-handedly completed a crossing of the Atlantic, um, you know, rowing across the Atlantic, which is amazing. Um so I I got her down there, and it's just about creating an interest period for people to listen to, and it what it seems to do is slowly turn down the volume in people's minds of all the bad stuff, gets them in the right frame of mind, um, and they then go on to when when the time's right, we then roll on to a a very low-key mental health check-in. We've got two police negotiators that work with us, um, and it's as simple as you know what what brings you to us today? Um, we work in small groups, no more than seven really, um, so it keeps it quite personal. Um, if someone doesn't want to talk, they don't have to. Gourmet.
SPEAKER_01I I just wondered um in the way that you described it, is your kind of approach uh could that be seen as preventative for people that are currently it does both.
SPEAKER_00I think it's it's it's yeah, it's got two sides to the blade, if you like. So we've had guys there uh that uh that couldn't speak in some of these offices and stuff, and in that environment with those people around them, the fire in nature. I mean, in nature, scientifically, it's proven half an hour, 45 minutes in nature, you caught a soul level drops, and that's that's just a fact. Um so some guys that have all these traumas, you know, they they find it easier to talk about it, but also like exactly like you say, it's also a preventative thing. Um again, because you just sat round a fire chatting to people, you know. Yeah, um, like there's lots of walk and talk groups forming now, and everything else and the same thing, it's preventative, and you can just chat before your cup gets full. You can bring the level down, you know. Um that's the way we like to look at it.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah. So I I like the the the cup, the cup analogy has come out a a couple of times. So this is kind of the idea that you reach a mental overload, and definitely you really need to prevent that. And I guess you know, your your analogy is well, you're just bringing the level down a bit and helping these people. But I guess if you were working out that through your career, uh, you know, it if you know that your career exposes you to this sort of thing. And and we've had the um status codes uh guys on here as well, so that obviously they come from the police side of it, but you know, you guys in the in those forces, it it's often overlooked how much exposure you get to some pretty awful things that that will affect you, and it's almost as if a running system of of delivering your kind of programs is going to be brilliant for them. Um I you know, with that in mind, I've just seen a fabulous video, uh, slightly based on the two Ronnies, I think. Uh and it was it was a uh it was a stit on one of their news new sketches, and um, and you in it you ran through your program, uh, but you did that at minus 25 degrees um in the Swedish tundra or something.
SPEAKER_00Yep, that was it. Yeah, that was a couple of weeks ago.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was freezing, yeah, it was cold. And my many thanks for using our maps out there and taking some terrific um photographs, proving that splash maps works at minus 25 degrees centigrade.
SPEAKER_00Oh, definitely, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much for that.
SPEAKER_00I mean, you can always use it as a bit of warm kit if you need to in emergency as well.
SPEAKER_01Well, perfect for that. Absolutely, absolutely. You know, what I think, you know, why haven't maps doubled up as other stuff in the past? You know, people tend to make them out of paper, and you wouldn't make your um you wouldn't make your outer gear out of paper, really, would you? It would be daft.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01Um, so what is the program that you've got lined up for the lucky people that have taken the plunge and uh and and decided to go with your program?
SPEAKER_00What, on the Sweden side or over the next few months?
SPEAKER_01Well, I guess Sweden has been and gone, but why not tell us about that? And I I know you met our friend Sam Cox out there as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So we went to Sweden, basically, it was a recce for us uh for next year. Um so and we met up with Sam. Um obviously we chatted about him and you you know him already. Um and I think we're gonna go down the line of hopefully, obviously, fund independent. Um we're gonna, I hope, take eight people out to visit Sam next year. Um we had a chat with him, and I know he's gonna tailor something, or we're gonna tailor something between us because what we aren't about, whether it's in the woods or anywhere else we go, is is like beasting people. Because we are on the mental health side rather than the physical side. Um, you know, I don't need to take people to Sam to get them doing, you know, 30k a day in the snow and everything else. So we'll sort of program out, hopefully, you know, whether it's like ice fishing, uh, you know, the dog sled rides and everything else, but it will all be on the mental health side. Um, we've done other trips where it it's proven to us that it works. Uh we the first map we had from you guys was for the Isle of Lewis in Scotland, where we've got another uh base up there.
SPEAKER_01And we turned some more beautiful photographs that came back from that. That's it, with the otters and stuff. That's it. Yeah, fantastic.
SPEAKER_00Which was amazing. And um so we we we met basically trips like this, uh Embers heavily subsidises basically. We ask our people if they want to come, and if they say yes, we have we do get a financial contribution from them as well because I believe it it ties them in emotionally, and also it means they are going to turn up at the airport or or wherever we go, you know. Um so it ties them in in two ways. But we found, especially on the Scotland one, that the the healing, if you like, and the bonding and everything starts. We we meet up at Gatwick Airport again. Back to the services being similar, whether it's you know military, police, whatever, there's always the banter, and the banter starts at the airport, you know, and the whole trip uh we had four days on the Isle of Lewis, and and it was just such a crack, you know. It really, really was a a laugh. And you could see people um just just their shoulders dropping, just relaxing, you know. Um, it's a beautiful place. We were on a beach for a couple of days in hot tents, um, there was no one around, loads of time to chat, loads of time for people to think, you know, and and and just just get away from it all, you know, um, and it works. And and the guys were you know different different types of people when they got back, they were a lot lighter, you know. We've had some great reviews on it, and we hope to replicate that sort of thing in Sweden next year, um, if we can pull it all together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and uh your UK programme is strong this year as well. I I think I got through I was listening to it, I think you got all the way through to May or June before it looked like you were just getting frostbite or something.
SPEAKER_00It was cold, it was yeah, it was bloody cold. Um minus 25, you said. It was yeah, well, the coldest it got when we were there was minus 30, and then I think just after we left it dropped down to about minus 40, I think. So, yeah, it was chilly. Um no, so neck next month, um like well, I think we're full up already for um the next month one, which is uh a deer preparation one, um, which is brilliant. We do one of them every year, the deer prep one, because it's so successful, and it's as simple as we're really lucky. Every weekend camp we do, we have venison because I'm sponsored by a lady near to me that shoots and preps the deer, and she she sponsors and she's fantastic. So the deer prep she brings up three deer to the woods, she demos skin in one, and then the guys have to jump on it, or you know, if there's females as well, everybody jumps on it under supervision. Then her husband is the butcher, so he butchers it, and again, everybody has a go under supervision, and then basically you have to eat it, and and and and that that's it for the weekend. Obviously, I bet there's no chore. It's no chore, and if there's anything left, it has to go away to the people that have come, you know. So that's that and that's a brilliant one. Um then we're also doing one, we're doing an all-female one, which is um looking like at the moment, I think we've got about five female police officers on it. Um, and that is more of a forest bathing type one. So we've got a really lovely lady in the morning who's coming to us to do some um relaxing yoga as opposed to physical exertion type of yoga, which we'll tie in with another lady that we've got who works with us uh on Instagram. I think she's called Tansy in the Wild, and she is all about forest bathing. So the two fit very well together. Um, especially, I mean the guys are welcome on it as well, but that tends to lend itself more to females, um, which is brilliant. Um we've also got another guy coming to us the following uh month, which he's an ex um Special Forces Junnook pilot, um, very, very humble man. Um he sort of says to me, you know, when I I keep I've been pushing and pushing to get him there, and he said to me, Um, you know, I was just like a taxi driver, you know, why do you want me there? And I'm like, you don't become a an S, you know, an SF, a special forces unit pilot, you know, just with a you know a buckshead license sort of thing. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. The lessons are just about trying to make them interesting for people, you know. Yeah, um get them in that zone.
SPEAKER_01I mean, that's a great variety of things. You've got gone from forest yeah, forest bathing to minus 25 to uh all sorts of stuff in between. So yeah, I mean I just really want to encourage people because you know the last time we we physically met was at the uh adventure travel show, which I thought was an excellent show this this year. Um and uh and and so I got got to got to know you a bit better there, and you know, you're not gonna meet someone uh more intent upon helping you it with your situation uh than you are with Jason and his colleagues. So um, yeah, if you've got a need on that front, um if you're if you're in the forces or if you're in the 999s, then you know get in get in touch, follow the links on this and uh get in touch with Jason. So, Jason, you know what this is all about and the Adventure Habits podcast. The clue is in the title, and just before we came uh onto the air, uh you shared with me what your five adventure habits is, which was a wonderful feat of preparation, so I can introduce them for you. So and the first one, appropriately enough, is about humour. Why don't you tell us about how humour is your adventure habit?
SPEAKER_00I I think it's so important, and it's been important all through my adult life, really. Um, from the military, if you haven't got humour in the military, then you're you're screwed. You know, from day one basic training, you've got to be able to laugh, you know, all the way through to being in Sweden, you know, when we were cold and everything else, again, you've got to laugh, you've got to be able to deal with it. Um and and I mean lots of these things I'll link back to what we do in the woods, and again, a l a lot of what happens around the campfire, especially in the evening, is humour, it's banter, it's Mickey taking.
SPEAKER_01Um, it's dealing with the random things that happen, but with a special night.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, if something bad happens, you deal with it, uh, and then you you you laugh about it, you know, because if you don't, you're gonna you're gonna hold it all inside, you know, and and you're gonna you're gonna pop, you know. So yeah, humour, I believe, is such an important um feature in life, you know, let alone in adventure stuff that you're doing, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, it's it it's easy to spot that, but just just the you know, that we all get qualms when we're in uh in business or work or whatever, and you've had a rotten day, and suddenly you go into the living room, there's a comedy programme on, or something like that, and you find yourself laughing, you're thinking, how can I be laughing following what's just happened? But yeah, it's a massive reset on the on the whole side.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, you've got to be able to have the crack. If you can't have the crack, life's hard, isn't it? You know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, too right. So, so that's your uh humour was the first one. Um so let's let's put a tick in that box. Uh the next one was uh uh you know, unsurprisingly enough for someone with a military background, preparation. Uh so how come preparation is part of your adventure habits?
SPEAKER_00Um again, learnt the basics in the military. I think I'm allowed to say it, pre-preparation prevents piss poor performance, and that is is such a good thing to go by. So whether you're you're you're going up Penny Fan, whether you're going to Sweden, whether you're going to the Arctic, whatever it is, you you need to prepare, you need to prepare physically, i.e., you know, if like the Arctic, for example, you need your fitness, you need to make sure you've got the right kit to to do the job you need to do. Um, you know, if if you're going up to uh you know it it all applies even if you're going up Pennyfan or somewhere like that, or you're just going for a sort of 10-15 mile hike, you you've got to plan for it, you know. Um then it peop people people will know where you are, which is sort of we're touching on on another point here now as well, I suppose. People know where you are, they'll know rough timings, etc. etc. etcetera. So that if something does go wrong, um they know something's gone wrong, you know. Um there's been a few incidents. And down to and maps as well, you know, maps as well. Def definitely, people, you know, if you're going off into the wilderness, you you plan your route, um you you pass that on to someone back at home. If you're out in in the proper wilderness, they know roughly where you are. You know, it's all about looking after yourself and using your common sense, really.
SPEAKER_01And that's why we deliberately um have uh an expectation that if you place an order with us for a personalised map of wherever you want on the planet, it will take somewhere between two and three weeks to get to you. So we just want people who are prepared, who've thought things through in advance. And remember, people, you want to have that map in front of you for a couple of weeks so you can live the journey at least twice before you actually go and experience the journey. So you've done that so many times. Fantastic. Okay, so that's preparation, and then so um uh to tell me your third one. I think it's about um food and fluids, keeping yourself uh properly nourished as you do these things. Well, what's the lesson there?
SPEAKER_00Well, definitely. Um I'm sure lots of the people that are listening in and stuff that you know you've had a lot of expedition type people on your um podcast. And stuff like that, and I'm sure they'd back me up. Um, good example is um the guy at Dan Holding, um, an ex uh boot neck or raw marine, he's just uh completed the spine race in Sweden, which is 290 kilometres, I believe. Um, and he'd said a really good thing on there that I was watching the other day because he he's sponsored by some sort of a nutrition company, obviously, and he was talking about every chance he got, he was having these like bars down him and everything else, and he was burning something like eight, nine thousand calories a day, doing what he was doing, which is obviously well over your normal intake. If you put rubbish um fuel into your vehicle, it's it's not gonna perform, and it's the same for your body. So if you're going off on an expedition, we've that we've done the planning, you know. So you've done your making sure you've got the right kit, your route, and everything else, but you've also got to make sure you've got the right nourishment. And what I learnt when I was in the army as well, especially we spent a lot of time in Otterburn and places like that, um, hot food if you can as well. I mean, we used to if we were tabbing any distance, you'd stop every now and then, you'd get a hot brew on, hot scoff whenever you could, um, because it makes so much difference to your body. But yeah, the calorie intake, if you're doing anything sort of arduous, you've got to get it inside you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And and so not just any stuff, and uh, there's a lot of people that were just piling the protein, uh, you know, powder flow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, or the pot noodles or something like that, yeah, and then they wonder why they go down, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. So go for the good stuff when you can get the good stuff, basically.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, when you can get it.
SPEAKER_01Great, great. And and uh, you know, the the the stories of people that get caught out um on top of Penny Fan or wherever else, that that's quite often down to the nutrition that they took, and you know, maybe inappropriate footwear might be a factor as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, clothing. Um I've been up on Penny Fan before, like we talked about before you we we started this, as probably a lot of people know that that go up there, you can go up there in the sunshine, and within five minutes you can't see your hand in front of your face. And I've seen people up there with like flip-flops and and carrier bags, you know. It it's not you you can have a day sank with a little bit of warm kit, you know, a flask, whatever it is you need for the just in case, you know. You might not need it, but if you've got it, you know, if something happens, you've you've got it with you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. It's the right kit. So, food and fluids and being prepared and humour so far. So, the next one, your fourth adventure habit is about keeping folks informed. Um, you know, what happens if you don't keep people informed, if people don't know where you are? Well what happens then?
SPEAKER_00Well, that's when it all goes wrong, isn't it? You know, um obviously, worst case scenario, people die, you know. Again, same analogy, you're doing I mean, even like people at places like Snowden, people think Snowden's just a little jaunt up a hill. Well, this time of year i it's not. You've got to have the right kit on, the crampons, everything else that you're doing. Some people in the past have done that sort of adventure and not kept the right people informed, or the emergency services, or the mountain rescue, or whatever like that. Um something goes wrong, these people uh haven't got a hope in hell of finding you, you know. If you can give them a predetermined route, obviously sometimes that changes a little bit, but if they know roughly where you are and you're not you're not meeting your your your RV point at the right time, um people back at home can can set the alarm off, you know. You don't know what's happening to you. So again, you might have been in a small avalanche or something, there's nothing you can do about it. But if if you're not, if you're an hour, two hours late, someone at home can be like, hold on, we've not had a check-in from this person, so let's start the ball rolling, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think there's probably uh there's a cautionary tale just recently on the um on the international news, wasn't there, in Austria. That guy uh took his girlfriend up a mountain, you know, took responsibility for her. Actually, the emergency services were out there, but they didn't think to signal or flag down the helicopter because at that point they thought they were fine, and now the guy's not only got a dead girlfriend, but he's got a manslaughter charge on his hands as well. So yeah, uh, it is a um uh yeah, uh it it's it it's crucial to have those things in place, but also and it is it's playing into your last one, and I I don't want to I don't want to preempt what that one is, but it it's kind of you know actually understanding the situation that you're in and that it can change or it's about to change. If it's like if it's getting into the evening, there will be a point where it's gonna be dark. When it gets dark, it's gonna get a lot colder, things are gonna get very, very different very, very quickly. And um, a lot of people won't take that into account and have you know, in in some cases, too much faith in their own abilities, perhaps.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that's right. You know, a plan B, and and and don't be afraid to change it, you know, exactly like you've just said, you know, if you've decided you're gonna do 10 miles today, something crops up that slows you down, and for example, we're in Sweden, you know, as soon as that sun drops, it it's cold instantly. Well, if you've you've not made your checkpoint, then make a new one, get your tent up, get a brew on, get a hoscoff on where you are, and and and change the plan if you need to. Don't just drive on and on and on, and then it all goes wrong again. And again, then you've got the emergency services involved, they're then at risk because they're coming out to help you, etc. etc. So, you know, plan B and don't be worrying about changing plans if you have to.
SPEAKER_01No, I love the way you seamlessly moved into your fifth adventure habit there, you know, that of keeping open to change, and uh you know, and that's life, that's that's also a life lesson as well, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00You know, um you we we well a good example with with Embers, we we recently went for a big funding package, we didn't get it, so we've had to pull back, regroup, and we're coming back out fighting again. You know, change the plan if you need to, don't just jack, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean that that happens so many times in in life, in business, in in adventure, it's it's uh it's a theme, and you know, but perhaps you know evolution is for the adaptable, and uh and so you know let's well I mean I I guess that's what your your your business is about as well. I mean a a lot of um I I can't profess to understand PTSD, but I know plenty of people that have who will say they've got that condition. Um and it does it does seem as if you go down a long dark tunnel and you know unable to get out either side of it. And I guess that's what you are doing. You're kind of broadening that perspective, being able to look outside of the the dark tunnel that that people are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're we we're doing our best to. Um and and uh one of the guys that works with us, um, who's uh one of our negotiators who does the mental health check-in, he has a good saying, and he says it's not it's not the mental health Olympics, and that's the other thing that I think people need to think about because we have such a mix of people sitting in the circle. Um what's what's really important and hard for some people isn't necessarily important and difficult for others. We've all got our own battle, so um you know, I've just recently retired. It's a big step retiring, you know. I know people that have worried immensely about it, and then we have other people that come to us that have done a couple of tours of Afghanistan, they've seen some really, really bad things. Although they're very, very different events, they mean a lot to those individuals, you know. Um, and I think that's quite an important thing to remember as well. So we welcome all different people with all different weights that they're carrying, you know.
SPEAKER_01And you meet them where they are, and that's exactly that, mate.
SPEAKER_00Exactly that. We don't ask anything of them. Um we're very relaxed, um, we like to mess around, as you know. Um but I I do believe that that the mixture it's like an ingredients of a cake, so you've got we've got the woods, so we've got nature, we've got a big fire in the middle, so that's that. We've got like-minded people all sitting together and talking, and then we have a big scoff in the evening, you know, a big venison stew or something like that. You put all them together, and it makes it bakes a really lovely cake, you know, and it's as simple, it is as simple as that.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I mean it it's been great getting those uh habits from you, and I am so enticed by that last image of uh being around the campfire, plenty to eat, bit of a laugh as well. It you know, it's gonna be absolutely wonderful. So uh people listening, if you're able to support Jason and his friends, that I mean this this is it's the only way that this thing really gets uh keeps going is grant funding and uh benefactors and uh you know philanthropy of all shapes and sizes. Um, and uh and you know, if you do find that you are you know some somewhere on the PTSD spectrum, then uh and whichever side of life you've come from, then give give Jason a call and he can signpost you to something that is at least going to help you look on more of the bright side of life. Um but uh but yeah, do support him in all that he's doing. Jason, it's been a great privilege to have you on the show today.
SPEAKER_00Um lovely to meet you as well, mate. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, my best wishes, and you know, I'd I'll give my usual um my usual encouragement that you join us at the uh armchair adventure festival this year.
SPEAKER_00Sounds good to me. Yeah, it sounds good to me.
SPEAKER_01You'll meet a lot of very like minded people there and and ourselves, of course. We're we're partnering once again. Okay, great. Well, thanks so much for your time, Jason, and uh see you soon.
SPEAKER_00Yep, see you soon, David. Thanks a lot, mate.