Episode 029 - Dawn Smith: Conquering the Wave

Discover the extraordinary journey of Dawn Smith, a seasoned ocean rower who has traveled over 22,000 miles across the Atlantic, Pacific, and beyond. In this episode, she shares insights on resilience, meticulous preparation, and the importance of knowing your "why" in undertaking life's biggest challenges.

Key Topics

• Dawn's extensive background in maritime life, including police marine patrol and yacht master qualifications
• How she transitioned from a maritime professional to Olympic-level ocean rower
• The mental and physical challenges of solo versus team ocean rowing
• Strategies for breaking down massive obstacles into manageable chunks
• The importance of knowing your "why" and obsessively preparing for the journey
• Building the right team and support network for solo or team ventures
• Navigating unpredictable conditions like icebergs, fog, and rough seas
• How adventure can inspire all ages, emphasizing continuous growth and resilience
• The role of charity and mental health awareness in her missions

Timestamps

00:00 - Introduction to Dawn Smith and her incredible ocean rowing feats

00:30 - Dawn's maritime background & transition to ocean rowing

01:42 - The maritime experience that prepared her for ocean adventures

02:18 - Dawn's police marine patrol tenure and its influence on her endurance

03:10 - The ocean boat-building industry in Burnham-on-Crouch

04:32 - Variations in ocean crossings & the toughest routes

05:20 - Dawn's record-breaking rowing accomplishments

06:14 - Upcoming Atlantic crossing from Canada to UK; weather challenges

07:43 - The toughest conditions: solo rowing and weather impacts

09:23 - Maintaining resilience when facing adversity at sea

10:51 - Building a support team & training others in maritime safety

12:04 - The purpose behind her voyages: charity work & mental health awareness

13:47 - Overcoming near capsizes and dangerous encounters

15:25 - The importance of preparation & the legend of Ben Fogle’s Atlantic crossing

16:53 - Handling emergency situations and unpredictable weather

18:30 - Dawn’s top adventure habits: knowing your "why", obsessive preparation, and breaking challenges down

21:15 - The significance of focusing on small, achievable goals during daunting endeavors

24:49 - Managing nutrition and calorie intake during long ocean crossings

26:23 - Learning from other adventurers’ experiences & mental toughness

28:42 - Building the right team and community support for solo ventures

33:01 - Continuing adventure at any age & inspiring others

36:41 - Dawn’s upcoming challenge and the impact of her work on mental health and veterans

Resources & Links

• Dawn Smith’s website for more information and donations
• Phoenix Heroes: Supporting veterans with mental health initiatives
• Rannoch Adventure – boat builders in Burnham-on-Crouch

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Hello and welcome to another Adventure Habits with me, David Overton and Splash Mat. And today we've got a really watery adventurer for you. Yeah, I think this is actually the first rowing one we've got. But this lady has done some extraordinary things in a boat. And then she's repeated it and she's done it several times. In fact, I think she's gone the the uh probably the furthest of most human beings. Uh 22,000 miles in total, mostly back and forth across the Atlantic in a rowboat, uh, sometimes on her own, sometimes with a whole heap of other people, and sometimes just two people. And uh I'm really pleased um to welcome uh to welcome Dawn Smith of the Aurora Row team uh duo uh midway through her latest adventure, first part done, second part to come in June. Um, and uh Dawn, without further ado, welcome to Splash Maps.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Hello, thank you very much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Well, it's an absolute pleasure, and I've got to say, uh, looking down through all your accolades, uh, including your your British Empire medal as well from you know your presumably your previous career. Um yeah, I mean, have you it's an extraordinary feat and an absolute clutch of world medals and uh and race wins for you over these extraordinary distances rowing across the Atlantic. I mean, have have you always rowed and and what got you into it?

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Um so I started rowing uh about 10 years ago. So I set up the rowing club here in my hometown of Burnham on Crouch, uh, and I was the chairman for the first few years as well. Um so that's how I got into rowing, but actually, maritime-wise, I've been a commercial mariner for over 20 years. So before I even started rowing, I was um so I'm a yacht master, a yacht master examiner, um, anything to do with boats really. I either do it or teach it.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Fantastic. And that that then went on into your uh you you went and became a police, uh, you were in the police, the uh the boat police, whatever you call that uh officially.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yeah, so I joined uh Essex Police in 1996 and did 26 years service, so I left four years ago. Uh but the majority of my career was on the marine section, so that's where I got all my um maritime experience and qualifications. Um, yeah, so we would patrol the whole of the Essex coastline, uh it's about 400 miles from um uh just past Harrich in Misley, right down to the Dartford River crossing, uh going into London.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Wow, well I mean that that's that's a that's that's it. So you were used to going large distances, but presumably they didn't force you to row that boat.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

No, I had I had an engine, so that was pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Cheating, right? Well, in comparison with now, anyway. And um the the way that I know I I don't know if it's Burnham on Crouch, but I know the Crouch River, we do the the the Crouch and Roach sea chart, so we we've got all the um all the admiralty charts, you've got full license with Admiralty. Um, but we made a special one uh for uh for that area uh for Rannock boats. So I mean it it's obviously a big boat thing. Have they ever do do you know them? Do the is it a small world, the cross Atlantic rowboat making world?

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Yeah, well, um so where I live in Burnham on Crouch, Rannock Adventure is based in Burnham on Crouch, and they make the boats. So pretty much, I mean, there's a couple of other companies that make um um do make boats as well, but a much smaller scale. Um so the majority of the ocean rowing boats out there are made by Rannock in this town of Burnham on Crouch, and that's when I first so Charlie Pitcher is the um is the founder of Rannoch Adventure, and I met him when we um set up the rowing club in Burnham. So he was he's the uh president of the rowing club, so that's where we first met, and how I got into ocean rowing.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Yeah, yeah. I mean we we know Charlie from um uh we did a project together with Jordan Wiley uh uh rowing dangerously, and he did the um the Babel Menup straight, not quite the same distance, but um hairy, I think you could say that crossing uh that crossing was. But okay, great, great. Well, I know a bit more about the uh about the ocean going craft world in in that case now. And you're so you you have gone back and forth across the Atlantic. Uh well, you've done five crossings so far, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Uh I've done five crossings of the Atlantic, but I've done six crossings altogether, so I've done the um Pacific as well. Um so I did my first row with solo uh in uh 2019, and that was from Grand Canary to Barbados, uh completely solo, unsupported, no race, no anything. It was just me on my own in the tiny little rowboat. Um, and then I rode the Atlantic uh two more times in um one of um Rannock's boats called Roxy, which is a 12-person rowing boat. Um, then I did the Pacific as a female trio, and we beat the world record for the fastest female team to have rode the Mid-Pacific, and we won the female trophy. Um then I rode the Atlantic last year as a team of four, and we um won the female trophy on that one as well. And I broke the world record for the most amount of rows any female's ever done. And um the row I've just done, uh winter just gone, that was um two of us, uh, me and Paul, and uh we broke the world record for the fastest mixed crew to oh mixed pair to have rode the Atlantic Ocean east to west.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Wow, so constant record breaking, uh I think we've got four four records now, yeah. Fabulous. And and the the the next one to come again with with Paul uh with Paul Law is uh the home to home, uh going from his homestead uh up in Canada. Is it St. John's?

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Um well that's where we're starting from, but the the whole expedition is called the Hometown Row, uh, because we rode the Atlantic um to Antigua and we were going to then row from Antigua to Paul's hometown in Florida, um, but unfortunately the weather was absolutely shocking. So we had to stop in Antigua and then we shipped the boat to his hometown. So we did get to his hometown, we had a party there um and celebrated uh breaking the world record. Um, but the next leg is now going to be we're gonna tow the boat by road up to St. John's in Canada, and we're gonna row back to my hometown in Burnham on Crouch, uh, and that's happening in June this year.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Love it, love it. And so so no two crossings of the Atlantic are the same. Different start points, different end points, lots of variety. Which do you think is the toughest, or which do you think is gonna be the toughest? Because I I've looked at distances and you know there's yeah, they vary quite a bit. Numbers of days, do I get an impression from that? There must be some factor that makes one route worse than another. I mean, which which one's been the biggest challenge?

SPEAKER_00 7:48

I think the um biggest challenge. Well, definitely going solo is is a massive challenge because there is nobody else, it's just me. Uh nobody else is rowing, nobody else is going to fix anything. Uh so think breaks, it's down to me. Um and uh but weather-wise, the start of the Pacific was the most difficult because you've got a constant where the um the high pressure system circulates, you've got a constant wind on the beam of the boat trying to push you back to land. So you've got to fight that for about two weeks before you can then get out into the trade wind. Um, so that was really tough. Uh the Atlantic this year was wet, it rained, it rained, it rained, it was it was absolutely shocking. Um, but I think the North Atlantic is gonna be tougher still rowing back from St. John's because it's gonna be much colder, um, the the weather conditions are gonna be rougher. Um I mean we're likely to to be go uh looking round icebergs and uh we'll be navigating probably out of fog as we leave. So that's and and it's a route that neither of us have done yet. So yeah, that's gonna be the most challenging one yet, I think.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

I can imagine. So I mean, get probably good sense to go in June rather than in the winter months, but still you're gonna come across the the icebergs, etc. I mean, I'm just wondering how do you uh you know the the this sports of yours seems to be the ultimate in stamina and persistence. Uh I mean, how do you keep that doggedness?

SPEAKER_00 9:27

It's it is quite difficult because um but there's a there you haven't got an option, I think's the answer to that. If you know, if I went out for a run and I halfway through I thought that's it, I can't run anymore. You can phone a phone a friend to pick you up. In the middle of an ocean, you have got no choice. You either keep going and get to the other end, or you stop rowing and it will you'll drift there eventually, but it will take you three times as long, or you get rescued and forfeit your£60,000 worth of boat. Um so having no option is is actually quite good for the mind.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

Uh yeah, it's like it's like uh burning bridges or or something like that. You know, you you you kind of, well, we're going this way, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Yeah, it it really changes your mindset and it makes you realise you're you're capable of a lot more than you believe. Because so many times on the roads that I've done, I remember thinking, this I cannot go anymore. I'm exhausted, I can't do this. And then two hours later I I was still doing it because there wasn't an option.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a gift, I reckon. Uh I think you must have it in spades as well. But I mean, there's a lot of work looking at your web your website and the uh the online stuff that that you're um you know you you do you you you pull up other people with you as well. So d tell me a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

What in regards to the training school?

SPEAKER_02 10:58

Yeah, you tra you train people and uh you know it it's it's about leadership qualities and uh and all of that stuff, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Yeah, so what when I left the police four years ago, I set up my own business, Aurora Sea School. And um, yeah, so if you want to row an ocean, you come to me for a week, do all your uh mandatory RYA courses, um, but you don't just get the RYA courses, you get all the experience, you know. Um people are like sponges. I literally will just share all the all the information that I can think of with them. Um and I just want everyone, if somebody wants to do it, I just want them to have a really, really great crossing. And uh, you know, if I can stop people making mistakes that other people have done, then um then that's that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Fantastic, fantastic. Well, and I'm sure we're gonna get many, many more people going uh going across the Atlantic and uh and carrying out all this all the amazing things that you've done. Uh now you do you do it with a a purpose as well. I mean I I love that your your dawn and that the name Aurora comes from dawn as well, the the sort of Greek sunrise word, I guess. Um but uh have you um uh I what's your what's your what's your big what what do you want to get most from this next leg and uh what do you want to draw attention to?

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Um so um both me and Paul are doing it for charity. Um so Paul's charity is Canines for Heroes, um which is an American charity that provides service dogs for um for veterans, and my charity is called Phoenix Heroes, um, and that's a UK-based um organization that again looks after uh veterans um by doing some sometimes simple things like taking people fishing. Um so you've got a group of people that will go fishing, and while you're sat next to somebody fishing, you're not making eye contact, so it becomes a lot easier to then talk and um and talk about your issues and and it makes it easier to make friends and and it really really helps a lot of people and um yeah they've done some some really great work. So as far as charity-wise, that's what we're doing it for.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Um, but also I want to be very very grateful to Gary, uh Gary Stockton for putting us in touch with each other from from Phoenix, and um you know yeah, yeah, a great guy. And um, we had Jason Reeves on last week, um, who's who runs Ember's Bushcraft, which is aimed at roughly the same, the same sort of thing, or uh it's uh Woodcraft rather than bushcraft, but uh um yeah, he'll listen to his one when that comes out. You'll be listening to it tomorrow, and it will be you know, we'll put this one out in two weeks. Um, but yeah, it's it's great that there are these organizations that look out for people with PTSD, and and there are more of them than you think. So don't suffer people, you know, get in touch with with people like Dawn and uh and and people like Gary from Phoenix. And um, and so is has it proved useful in in raising money for Phoenix? Are you getting some good uh contributions?

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah, yeah, it's going pretty well. So if you go on my website, uh roarora.co.uk, uh there's a link to the charity there, so you can um you can donate there. Um and but it's not only just about money, it's it's about um raising awareness, showing that the things we're doing out on the ocean uh are also quite good for your mental health. Stuff like just clearing. So while you're out there, while you're rowing, you can't look at your emails and social media and and let normal life things worry you. You you've well you've got other things to worry about, like shark and great big waves.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Okay, well, fantastic. Well, well, yeah, do we'll put a link on uh in the show notes and uh so everyone follow that uh underneath this video or while you're listening, etc. Um, I just just before we go into the adventure habits, is there one uh outstanding oh my god, we're never going to get out of this alive moment that you can remember from any of your voyages that you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yeah, there's there's been a few, and uh probably the the the ones are when you've nearly capsized. So on my solo row, this huge wave, um, because when you're rowing, you obviously face backwards, so you can see this thing coming, and it broke just at the uh the stern of my boat. And well, I've held my breath, held on to the um guardrails because I I thought that was it. I thought we was going, I'll say we because I call the boat as well. So I thought we were going upside down. Um, that was pretty scary. Um, similar experience on Roxy, um, but that one nearly pitch polled, which basically means the back of the boat will flip over that so it'll go back end over over the front. That nearly happened. Like the the whole front end of the boat was underneath the water. I was up to my chest in water. That's how, but the boat was just so amazing, it continues to float. We got the boat moving, and then the water drains out of it.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

So, yeah, I think I guess they don't make these boats in ignorance, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Exactly, yeah. There's there's been a lot of thoughts and design has gone into these things, so um, so yeah, that's probably the scariest moments. Is it and what makes it a scary moment is it's something you can't do anything about. You know, all the training that I've done, I know if there's a medical emergency, I can deal with it. If the water maker breaks, I can deal with it. All these scary things that can happen, I know how to deal with it. There is nothing you can do. If Mother Nature decides it's going to chuck a big wave at you, that's what's happening, and you can't you can't control it.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I I I mean I'm just forgive my ignorance, but I guess you're you're tethered to the boat in some way. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

100% of the time. If you're if your door is about to come open, you need to be clipped onto that boat because if you fall in in big waves, you will get disconnected from the boat, and that's it, you won't be able to get back to it. So, yeah, 100% of the time you're you're attached.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

It's a high stakes game, and I think that's um, you know, of all the adventures we've learned about, and 20, you know, we've had 28 of these episodes now. Um that this is a really great example of a no turning back uh type exercise, and and that you would just plow straight back into it and then even do mad things like going around the coast to get back to your beloved uh Crouch River, um rather than just jumping off at Land's End, which you know, even that it's too much. Okay, right, enough of this. You know why you're here. Um uh and I think you're all our listeners will know now that you are an incredibly well-qualified adventurer, um, someone who's built up some habits over some time. Um, and I was just wondering if you'd like to share those adventure habits with us, Dawn, and um, you know, tell us your first of all, your number one habit. What what what would you like to share with our listeners?

SPEAKER_00 18:39

I think the first one is know your why. Um and what I mean, why are you actually doing it? When because when I run these courses, I'll get all these teams sat around the room and say, Why are you doing this? And they'll say, I'm raising money for some charity that they just that's that's amazing, that's amazing you're raising money for charity, but that's not why you're doing it. It needs to be it you need to have a goal for yourself um to do this, and if you can help other people with that, that's amazing. Um but you know if if you haven't people that have got a a goal, that have got a goal that means something to them, there's there was a study that means you're about 80% more resilient. If you if you don't know your why, if you don't know why you're doing it, then the whole training, you know, trying to get to the start line is the biggest hurdle, and you probably won't get to the start line because you you're not resilient enough to know what your why is. So so know your why, I think's my first one.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Brilliant. And so when when someone comes to you and and sort of does the course with you and learns yacht mastering and that sort of stuff, and then says, I'd like to go, I I'm gonna have a go at this, it you will hammer into them until they come out with a satisfactory why.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Yeah, that's it. And some people the charity is definitely, you know, they've they're suffering with cancer themselves, so they're doing it for the hospital that that saved their life. I mean, that's an amazing why. But some people will just pick a charity like the lifeboat, which that that's amazing, but that's not why they're doing it. So, yeah, I'll I'll I'll hammer and sometimes it might be over a beer in the evening, that's where you really find find out where the why is. Um, but it's important to have that.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Yeah, okay, okay. Yeah, but you're not the first to come out without one, but it is it is, I mean, that's the important thing, you know. The more times that it uh that that comes out, the more people realise that's that's actually uh and that that's the same with everything, you know. If if you're setting out in in business or exercise or you've got some ambition, the the goal uh isn't that the thing that you write it down as well, and you know, just you have to kind of live with it um before you can actually make it work. We had uh Jamie Ramsey saying something very similar. He's he's run, he ran from Toronto to Buenos Aires, so you know that that's a that's a fair distance. That was like 14,000, or was it 17,000 kilometres? It's a mad mad distance as well. But you know, he he he was doing it for charity like yourself, but his bigger why was was really for direction in life, and and sometimes yeah, and I I guess in that case he he discovered that he didn't have enough of a why, and so the running began that anyway. Every adventure is different, right? So, what's your number two uh habit, Dawn?

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Um, prepare obsessively. Um, if you are not prepared for whatever adventure it is you're about to take on, it you are either not gonna succeed or you're gonna have a terrible time doing it. Um to row an ocean, you need to know about weather, you need to know about boat preparation, you need to have done the correct courses, you need to have trained on your boat, you need to know. Every inch of that boat inside and out. If you just turn up to the start line ill prepared, you may well, and people have, people have got uh got across the Atlantic Ocean. Um, in fact, I hope he doesn't mind me saying but Ben Fogle, um him and James Cracknell rode across the Atlantic, uh, they got across successfully, but they had a horrible time. And the reason was that the first time they they got on their boat was at the start line. They've not properly prepared because they didn't and to be fair, back then, I mean, how have you prepared? You know, now more people have done it, you've got more people to to speak to, but at the time they were relying on the fact that James Cracknell was an amazing rower, and that's what was going to get them across. Where actually there's a lot more that goes into it. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

So familiarity.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

Familiarity with all the kit that you're going to be taking with you as well. And I mean that translates through all the adventure, all the adventures that that you could have as well. And I'd say, you know, if you're if you're walking, take a map. If you're going ocean-wise, then of course you'd take a chart, wouldn't you? And perhaps you'd take one that isn't gonna um suffer the ravages of the sea, basically.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If you go out there without any charts and uh or one that's gonna dissolve in the rain, um you could find yourself a bit stuck.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

I think so. I think so. Great, great. Nice plug, by the way. I do like that. Okay. Number three.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Um, number three is about breaking challenges down into so, for example, the the Atlantic Ocean. If I sat at the start line and thought, well, the next stop is is Barbados or Antigua or wherever I'm trying to get to, that's huge, that's massive. It it blows it blows your mind. So what you have to do is break that down into smaller challenges. So some days the the weather might be amazing, so your your next challenge is 12 hours time, I'm gonna cook my meal. Um, but some days it's so hard, you literally need to each hour give yourself a goal, right? At the end of this hour, I'm gonna eat a square of chocolate, at the end of the next hour, I'm gonna eat a jelly baby, and then at the end of my three-hour shift, um, I'm gonna get in that sleeping bag and sleep like I've never slept. So it's about you don't even think about the end, you're you're thinking about what's at the the the the next small chunk that you've you've designed. So, yeah, breaking big challenges down into small ones is is really important, not just for rowing oceans, for doing a big run, for general life. I think that can be really useful.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

It sounds like um that the small rewards are an important part of that. So it's not not just let's do 3,000 rows and then I'll be happy. It's kind of like 3,000 rows, then a jelly baby. I like that because uh those are things that we can take along with us. And by the way, you you know, you are you do need to charge yourself up quite a lot. I'd imagine there's is that like a I mean, how do you unload all the calories that you need to row for a full day on the Atlantic? Is that are you constantly snacking as you go along, or is there like some massive broth that you make up in the morning or something?

SPEAKER_00 25:25

You're pretty much eating the the whole way across. Um so you've got to be careful when you stop rowing because you carry on eating like that. But the uh the the freeze-dry meals, so um, you may have three um like proper meals per day, which is the freeze-dried stuff. A lot of those have got about a thousand calories in them, uh, but then in between that you're eating nuts, um, um, sweets, anything that's that's high calorie. Um you're trying to built on's quite good as well. Um, yeah, and it's got to be stuff that you like. If you don't, some people have packed their boat with all this amazing nutritionally based food, but they don't like it, so it's got zero calories in it because they've known it, they're not eating it.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

Yeah, yeah, you have to like it. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

So that might be a 3A pack food you like.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Yes, yeah. I'd I've done that before setting off on a big um cycling trip and thinking, oh, I need to take more flapjacks, and boy, do you get tired of the taste of flapjacks after like the third one? You're just thinking, what the why did I do this? Um but uh okay, great, great. So we're getting some good, um, some good habits here. Know your why, um prepare obsessively and break it down. Um at what one that one that we had recently was with uh Mitch Hutchcraft. Um he climbed, he did the longest ascent of Everest. Uh so it started with a a channel swim on this side, and he said that was the very worst of it. That was the very worst part was swimming across the uh the channel. Um, and he literally broke it down to the stroke, you know, each stroke, he was counting each stroke, and and it was the only way to do it. And in those, I guess he has the same sort of situation that you have on on a boat. You've only got a certain amount of influence over the progress that that boat is going or that he was swimming. Other than that, there's currents, there's wind, there's waves, there's all sorts of stuff that's gonna be trying to pull you in a different direction each time. So um yeah, that that needing to count those things, uh, maybe rather than the whole distance, I guess, is is really important. Yeah, superb, right. Okay, we're on to number four already, rocketing through these. So, um, what's your fourth adventure habit, Dawn?

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Um, four is build the right team. So my first row was solo. Actually, it wasn't solo. I might have been in the boat on my own, but there were people on shore that were um part of the um the social media team. There were people that were some of them just literally sending messages of support, um, making sure I was okay. I had um Charlie Pitcher actually was doing my weather. Um, so I had all these people that were into so although it was a solo row, it it wasn't. It takes a community uh to build a team. Um, so and it needs to be the right, the right team. Um, I've had quite a few teams that have come to me um to do their training, and when they actually come to do the row, they're a completely different team, you know, team members have changed. It's not because any of them uh were not nice people, it's just because that that didn't work. They had different goals. If if one of the team wants to beat a world record and the other person wants to watch the amazing wildlife, it's it's not going to work because there's different goals. Um, so everybody needs the same why, you need a good team with loads of different skills from all different different places.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Yeah, great. And so were your when when people were looking out for the weather for you, you you doing it solo, were they radioing to you or did you have some way of uh was it was that the the principal mode of communication?

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Yeah, so in 29, I mean nowadays we have Starlink, um so you literally got Wi-Fi on the boat. Um, but uh on my first row, um 29, so it wasn't really that long ago, but literally all I had was a a satellite phone and I had a machine that I could plug into the satellite phone that gave me a the smallest um minute bit of internet, which meant I could send a compressed file of an email. Um so that that's what I would do. I I would send an email through that and then I would receive an email back um and and that was it really. That was that was a communication back then. Um which was actually incredible because you you are cut off from in an emergency, I could I could ask for help, but you know, you're you're not answering emails, text messages, looking at your phone every five minutes. You it was like a a detox, a life detox. You're literally out there on your own in the ocean with the wildlife, um, and it was just amazing.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

And and so um and and thinking about those kind of encounters and that sort of thing. Yeah, I know you know your upcoming row in in June, and and you're saying it's it's like the furthest north of the crossings you've done, and therefore ice flows and uh icebergs and that sort of stuff, you're normally facing away from that stuff, it it's coming up behind you, as it were, or you're advancing towards it backwards. Um and so how how do you know if you're about to who's gonna shout iceberg dead ahead, or how does that work?

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Um so everything's moving very slowly, so most of it is going to be eyesight. Um, but we've got extra equipment on board, um, so we're gonna have a uh radar reflector. Um so because it's poor visibility, if there's a ship going by with radar, um, normally you look tiny on an ocean rowing boat because one of the shape of it, and two the construction, you look really tiny on a ship's radar, um, but we'll have a radar reflector which will make us look bigger. Um, we've got an AIS system which is automatic identification system, which will alert us if there's any other boats nearby, and it will alert those boats that we're nearby. Um, but yeah, as far as um icebergs go, um, everything's moving slowly, and we're going in. So if you've got a drifting iceberg and we hit it, if we're doing three knots, our collision speed is probably like a knot or something, maybe a knot and a half, because it's going the same direction as us. So um we should hopefully be able to see it.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

So our other shipping is a much bigger, a much bigger danger, I suppose. Yeah. Okay, right. And uh and and presumably really good gloves are a good well, and this is the other thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

I don't I don't normally row with gloves. Um, one because the temperature doesn't need it, but also it's better for your hands. If your hands get used to just rowing barehanded, um then you're you're you're ready to row on it on any shift. If you start wearing gloves, the salt can then if it dries in a different shape, you it will start rubbing in different places. Um but yeah, on this crossing, there are definitely going to be times where we have to wear, we're gonna have to wear gloves.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

Um you're gonna have to get comfortable with that, yeah. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Wow. Oh okay, okay. That there's I'm I'm disrupting all this, and you were doing so well. Uh so we're we're actually at the last one now. So your fifth adventure habit following on from um build the right team. What what's uh what's number five?

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Um I've got adventure doesn't stop with age, so um, you know, I'm certainly not saying I'm past it or anything yet, but um yeah, just because you're you're getting older, it doesn't mean that you you need to stop adventure. It may mean that you need to change your goals or pick a different adventure, but it doesn't mean that's it. You know, I'm I I'm gonna be turning 50 more or less on the day that we leave uh for the North Atlantic from um from St. John's. Um so I'm hoping that people will watch that and go, you know, wow, that how you're still you're doing stuff like that 50 years old. That's that's incredible. And what's you know, what's gonna come after that? So hopefully it's inspiring people. Don't you know, don't stop adventuring, maybe change your goals or pick a different path if you if you really need to, but but don't yeah, don't don't stop leaving.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

Yeah, uh wonderful, wonderful. And it and I think that can happen at absolutely every every stage in in life. My dad's 94 at the moment, and really that movement is very difficult for him, but my brother's brilliant at um at giving him small goals each day. He's a Pilates instructor, and you know, again, that breaking down things into tiny things and bits of rewards every now and then is is is so good. So, you know, when eventually I reach 50, you know, I I could still do stuff. You didn't have to laugh that much. Oh my goodness, right? Dawn, this this has been an absolute pre pleasure. I'm just gonna run through your adventure habits as well, just in case they have not drilled in with our listeners. But you must know your why, you know, and it it's not enough to go in there thinking I'm raising money for a good cause. No, you've got to feel it in your heart, it's got to be the thing that drives you because if you're gonna do something that needs that much stamina, attention, focus, the whole thing, then uh, you know, you don't want to be taken off beam. It it has to be something you feel. Um, and then preparing obsessively is um is clearly something you do in spades. Uh not a lot of us, not a lot of us do. Um, but uh yeah, know the boat in your case. It sounded like the knowing the boat inside out is a big part of it. So um pay attention, Ben Fogle. I know you're gonna be at the National Outdoor Expo when this comes out, and um you know congratulations on Buffalo, by the way. Got to stay on the right side of Ben Fogle, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Yeah, we love him.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Yeah, okay, good. Uh and then uh break break things down. I kind of covered that uh a little bit earlier, but it is you know, it's very important to uh break things down, give yourself small rewards as you go along. Um build the right team, even if you believe your team is one, have a look at your support network. Um, you know, in your case, you can name them. Um, but you know, many of us have got a lot of people that are behind us the whole time, fans that we never knew. Um, and then you know, adventure doesn't stop with age. Uh, in fact, you know, here's here's great, a great example of a lady that's so much older than me, and she's still able to row across the Atlantic. I think I got you back at the end there, didn't I? Right. Um, okay, Dawn. So just a quick quick refresher of the work that you're doing, the stuff that you're doing, this amazing stuff that you're doing. Uh, you're raising money for Phoenix Heroes. Phoenix Heroes, and and that's PTSD and yeah, getting people to talk and giving people circumstances where they can we can they can really get together. So a big shout out to them. Uh we'll be putting a link at the bottom of this, plus where you can keep up. So your your next challenge is uh I think I said I saw it was 30th of June, is it you're setting off from St. John's?

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Uh maybe a bit it'll certainly in June, but yeah, maybe maybe a little bit earlier than the 30th. It would depend on the weather, but yeah, it'll it will be towards the end of June.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

Okay, okay. There's there's some terrific websites, anyway, that you can, you know, you then get the live the live stuff um from from Dawn once uh once she's underway. Uh Dawn, it just remains for me to say thank you so much. You've been an inspirational adventurer, and um we're so privileged to have your adventure habits here uh and and grateful for the time you spent with us today.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Thank you very much for having me.