Episode 031 - Dermot Cosgrove

Joining the French Foreign Legion and Embracing Adventure: Dermot Cosgrove’s Journey & Habits

In this episode, Dermot Cosgrove shares his extraordinary adventures—from joining the French Foreign Legion to walking across Iceland—highlighting the mindset and habits that keep him pushing boundaries. Discover how his experiences shape his approach to preparation, purpose, and resilience in challenging environments.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introducing Dermot Cosgrove: from Iceland to the French Foreign Legion

02:23 - Dermot’s military background and fascination with maps

04:45 - The impact of Dermot’s family and childhood outdoors enthusiasm

07:18 - Dealing with trauma and finding purpose through adventure

09:05 - Inspiration from Rob Steiner and joining the French Foreign Legion

11:14 - Understanding the spectrum of motivations among legionnaires

12:56 - Dermot’s regiment choices and role in the Legion

15:22 - Experiences in Djibouti, Somalia, and challenges of remote environments

18:39 - Transition from military skills to security work and mapping projects

20:36 - Dermot’s travel research and planning insights

23:49 - The deeper “why”: testing limits and managing ego

26:27 - The importance of having a clear purpose during adversity

28:37 - Training, gear familiarity, and self-rescue techniques

31:58 - Building habits: from physical training to route research

37:43 - The significance of proper kit and understanding environmental quirks

41:14 - The value of embracing failure as part of growth and adventure

43:27 - Launching Iceland map for adventure explorers

44:50 - Dermot’s commitment to charity and outdoor community

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Okay, hi, and uh welcome to another episode of Adventure Habits with me, David Overton and Splash Maps, and today I am thrilled to have someone for you. Um they've followed followed Adventure so hard that they even joined the French Foreign Legion. Um, so uh first of a kind on the Adventure Habits, please welcome Dermot Cosgrove. Say hi, Dermot.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Good morning, David. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Uh I'm having a great time here, and I'm so delighted to have you here for the launch of. I mean, and it's such an early launch, and we haven't got one, but can you see this tiny dot behind my head? That's actually Iceland. And um Dermot is going to walk from north of Iceland down to the south, uh, carrying a wheel trailer with him, and um and we've been absolutely delighted to support him with that. And it's the launch of that new um that new Iceland chart map from um IDNU from Iceland. Um, it's an absolutely beautiful map at one to fifty thousand. And uh Dermot, you're our first customer for that map.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Well, I'm actually delighted that I'm part of that because um I went to do this route in 2019, and I say I think I've contacted you in 2019 about doing this.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

It's one of the longest term projects we've ever had.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Yeah, and I I think I left it so long that I couldn't get a detailed map at the time, but you did me a fantastic um kind of outline map of Iceland with the with the the trace of the route I was going to follow at the time across um and the logo of the charity that uh you know I fundraised for. Yeah, so you know I've still got that. Um in that intervening time we've put it on my I haven't framed it to put them on my wall yet because unfortunately at the time I had to pull out due to injury to my feet. So I've promised myself when I've completed it, the new map and the old map will both get framed from my wall.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Fantastic, fantastic. Of course, fabric maps they don't have to be framed, but they look great when they are, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Yes, indeed they do. Yeah, yeah. No, they don't have to be framed. And uh as per our very first encounter um several years ago now.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Several years ago, yeah. Probably, I mean, we're probably talking about 2014 or 2015 here.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

I mean, it was quite early in the 2015 it was because I was a year on the job I was on um when I first when I when I became obsessed with um finding an alternative to technology.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Um you bought and you bought a map genuinely for the purpose of escape and evasion, which for me was the real endorsement of what we're trying to do here.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Well, it was it was back to old school because they um it went back to really back to the escape and evasion maps of the uh of the pilots in World War II and you know British Special Forces in the first Gulf War. And that was the first place I'd actually physically seen one of the fabric maps was when I encountered British Special Forces out there when I was um when I was there with the with the Foreign Legion and went, I've got to have one of these one of these days. And uh my when I left the Foreign Legion, my platoon commander, one of the gifts they gave me was one of the air maps that we had used in the first golf. He'd framed it for me. Um, but I thought, oh, I've got to, I've I've gotta get my hands on one of those fabric maps one of these days. And then next thing Googling for a work project, um there were splash maps.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Yeah, is the only way you're gonna get one of those?

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah, and sure. And um, and I have to say, I think there was our mutual obsession with maps kind of kicked in uh when that happened because you know you guys were so invested in producing this for me, um, that it was fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Well, we'd love to get the right map to the right person and hopefully at the right time. And uh and it sounds like it was I mean, it it it does sound as if it it found a great purpose for you there. I hope you didn't have to escape or evade too many times.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

But uh that map, uh those maps that you produced me are still in uh bug out bags um in North Africa um at the moment. In case we ever in case we ever have to pull out pull them out.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Yeah, yeah. Well, fingers crossed they don't have to get used in that way, but uh but it's always great to know they are, just in case. Um and Derma, I mean, you've got such a fascinating background. I mean, what what makes uh what what is it that that made you and that made you want to make that extraordinary step of joining the French Foreign Legion? What were the the the stages through childhood into adult that kind of led to you being the adventurer you are?

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Well, I'm from a family that um were very avid outdoors people. My dad was a big hunter and fisherman. Um my brothers uh were all of the same, you know, cut from the same cloth. My eldest brother is one of the early scuba divers in Ireland who met, who turned it into a business uh for a while. Um I have another brother who served 40 years in the Irish military, uncles, uh great uncles going back to the going back to pre-World War I and serving in the in the Somme in World War One. Wow. Um right up to uncles who served with the United Nations in the Congo in the 60s with the Irish forces, and my brother who went to Lebanon uh you know a couple of times on the UN missions there.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

So Adventure wasn't a stranger to this family at all.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

It it wasn't really, um but yeah, kind of as I as I kind of grew up, you know, I had this I was a massive uh fan of uh David Attenborough and I was um you know a big bird watcher and you know I was into snorkeling because of my elder elder brother and yeah there was summers I I literally where I live now um was is a big scuba diving uh town and uh I would I would end up kind of down here every weekend from where I grew up and would be chest deep in rock pools, you know, rooting out crabs and starfish, and you know my my eldest brother, my elder another brother who was who served in Lebanon got me into photography, and um I spent my time kind of out photographing birds and wandering kind of forests and and stuff like that growing up, but as I got older, kind of they they my dad died when I was four years old, and I was on the beach with my brother and sister when it happened, uh, and my mum, and the kind of undiagnosed trauma of that started to come out. Yeah, um, and I really started being a bit lost. Um and you know, I I would have ended up on I would have ended up on building sites in in London um in my late teens um if it wasn't for the intervention of my mum who uh who kicked me into college where I you know I played rugby. I didn't learn a whole lot, but I played rugby for a year.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Yeah. Which Jill Hayes. What was your subject, by the way, or do you remember?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

It was construction studies. Right. So I was I was actually I was learning how to build things, uh which you know, architecture and stuff like that. I found it you know really, really interesting, but um it wasn't for me. Um while I was in college and and growing up because of my interest in history and uh and my family connections, I'd read a fantastic book uh called uh The Last Adventurer by a guy called Rolf Steiner, who was an Austrian who joined the Foreign Legion, and later when he left the Legion, he went on to um fight in Biafra and uh South Sudan as as what he described himself as being a mercenary of conscience. So he he really didn't get paid to fight, but he was there because you know, fighting for the underdog, um and he's he's one of the uh base characters actually for you know Frederick Foresight's Dogs of War book, um, because Foresight was there at the time. But uh reading that, and then in college, I bumped in, I I was introduced to um a guy I was in school with who was in the Foreign Legion, and got the uh got the law down and went, yeah, I'm gonna have a crack at this.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Um Wow. So I mean that's a massive step to to go from college uh and and kind of feel that you wanted to join the the Foreign Legion because those books that you just mentioned uh well they tell you what's and all what's involved. Um and was it at all like that? Did you get that mix of of mercenaries, people who are there to forget? We're always told about that in literature, aren't we? And those that are there to fight for something that they have a strong help belief in.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Is it do you get the whole spectrum, or is it you you do like we had um when I enlisted in 1988, um we had a there was a lot of guys who had, you know, there was quite a few guys who'd been in the Falklands in '82 and had left and just couldn't handle um civilian uh civilian life and you know went off and enlisted in the Legion. Um and then you've got the guys a bit like me who were just lost and looking for looking for a place or looking for something to be part of who they were. Um and it's uh but then again you had you had uh you know famously when I when I enlisted and I was in the selection centre just outside of Marseille, we had the three Swedes who had a mutual breakup with their girlfriends on holiday in in France and decided, oh, we're joining the Foreign Legion. And everyone kind of looked at them going, Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Um it's not the Y we're looking for.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

No, it's not, and it's and you know, they didn't they only lasted a couple of weeks in selection, so before they were told, Look, guys, go home.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

I mean this is fascinating because we did um we did a review. The the the previous episode to this one uh was a review of and and that was my conclusion, was um partly based upon the one of the guy, one of the people we interviewed, um uh, but it came up many times, uh Dawn Smith. Um who was absolutely nailing it. Look, it is it for charity? I don't believe you. We need to go for a deeper why than that. There's got to be a deeper why if you're gonna do something like Road the Atlantic or walk across Iceland or join the Foreign Legion, you know. It's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

And I love that episode with Dawn. That was that was a fantastic episode. I was only re-listening to it yesterday. Oh great, great writing down my own notes.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

Yeah. So well, good good work, nice homework. And um, but uh yeah, but how so you do get that spectrum then? Certainly this the Swedish guys, they didn't last long. Um, but the guys with the so they were guys like you who were looking you were looking for your why, I I guess. Yeah. Did you find your why?

SPEAKER_01 12:04

I I did. I I I loved my time in the in the Legion. It was um I was lucky enough because your path in the Legion tends to be you go through basic training, and as you finish basic training, you um depending on where you're ranked in the platoon, uh, you know, you put down your three choices of which regiment you'd like to go to. And depending on where you're ranked, you know, you get your you get your regiment. And I was heavily influenced by um by two corporals, one British, one Hungarian, who um because a lot of Irish and English guys go to the parachute regiment, and these two guys were diehard 2nd Infantry Regiment, you know, to the core, and went, you need to go to the 2nd Infantry Regiment, and yeah, they gave me long lists of explanations, and um I ended up uh choosing there, and I I got the two REI and um when I got off the bus, they went, Right, we're looking for volunteers for the anti-tank platoons, and I had been told about these platoons um who operated from Wiley's Hotchkiss Jeeps that had been built in the 40s. Um brand new engines, but the chassis and the and the you know the whole outer side was bit like my Jeep was built in 1942, um with a pillar uh bolted to the back of it that where you uh mounted the Milan anti-tank missile launcher, and they were basically a coffee table on wheels. Um, and we zoomed around the French countryside on exercise with these things like absolute lunatics. Um and but the the whole training was about escape and evasion and operating behind uh behind lines and carrying out reconnaissance, and it just went, yeah, this is this is me. I'm stuck up my hand. And as the youngest guy in the platoon, I had to put up with quite a lot of crap for the first six months until I passed all my qualifications and proved myself and still got a lot of crap, but I got less crap than the newer guy who came in behind me. Yeah, I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

So I mean, I I love the idea of because I I know so many uh organizations that take these historic vehicles and go about the desert. What I had no idea about was that they were until so recently still in use uh in until 1992. Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

We had them in the first we actually used them in the first Gulf War. Unfortunately, I just didn't take enough photographs during that time. But uh we we actually used them at the start of the first Gulf War. Um like you know, like a bit like the uh long-range desert groups zooming around the desert in these jeeps um along the border with um between Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Um, you know, mapping literally mapping Iraqi positions on the other side of the border. Um, so you know they were they were still out there, and when they decommissioned them, there was a scramble to buy them because we they all had brand new engines.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

No, those are probably the ones that I now see at the We Have Ways Festival and places like that where they do the the reenactments, well not the reenactments, but they they put uh a stand there for the um for the for the long-range desert uh group. Um so Dermot, that's I mean, uh amazing. And then you know, by the sounds of it, you got your promotion, you got through the French Foreign Legion. How long did you stay in there or or how long did you stay in there?

SPEAKER_01 15:47

I was there for six years. Uh the normal contract was five. Yeah. But I was uh I was given the option to go overseas on a two-year posting um to Djibouti in East Africa, which not a lot of people will know where it is, but um it's a tiny little country that's squashed between Ethiopia and Somalia, and it's key for controlling the entrance, the Babel Mandeb entrance to the Red Sea. Um and it's especially key now because of the piracy uh coming from Somalia between Somalia and Yemen.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Um we know that because we we sponsored um uh Jordan Wilder to row a boat across it.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Yeah, yeah, I remember that. I actually spoke to Jordan kind of around the same time. Oh you did yeah, yeah, yeah, he's absolute madman. Fantastic blow. I just love what he's what he's done and what he's done since it's and he's it's um so you were there at the Babble Mende straight, and um Yeah, and I ended up it was at the at the time when I went out there, it was often referred to as the ice cream tour, where you know it was low intensity, nothing really going on. You wore your ray bands, got a chan, got a chan, and you know, looked good in uniform and ate a lot of ice cream. And as I got there, which you know, and it was the highest paid overseas uh posting. But as I got there's gigs, right? Oh yeah, yeah. But as I got there, there was um kind of civil war broke out, and we um we ended up the French negotiated uh the um uh a ceasefire, and we ended up on ceasefire observation. Um two weeks out in the middle of nowhere, sitting on a hill um under a tarp, um making sure everyone behaved. And as that started to wind down, um Somalia broke out. The the UN mission to Somalia broke out, and I ended up nine months in Somalia, so most of my second year was down there. Yeah, so wow, wow.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Yeah I mean it that's that's a a big a big tour of duty.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Um yeah, it was because that was quite high intensity, and I was a medic as well at the time. Um, and everything between convoy escorts to um you know being out in the bush on the border with uh with Ethiopia chasing bandits who were attacking refugee convoys. Um and you know, there was quite a lot of fighting at the time as well. So, you know, we were on regular encounters with these guys who you know didn't, you know, didn't uh had quite an itchy trigger finger.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that that sounds like the uh the the toughest of gigs, you know, that emerged from one of the mildest. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, uh fantastic. And then since then you've taken those skills you've learned and you apply them in in security settings for clients that you work for, and that's how you came across us getting maps made professionally for you for for doing that that kind of work. And uh the I mean the fascinating thing is is the crossover with the different adventurers like that. I didn't realize that you'd met um uh Jordan Wiley, who's worked with us, but also Will Copestake.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

You've you've got his footsteps. I kind of spoke I spoke to Jordan a few times via social media. Social media has been fantastic for that because I spoke to uh Jordan a few times on social media about what he was doing, yeah. You know, donated when he was doing these crazy marathons, kind of you know, in Afghanistan and places like that. Yeah, and then when I was researching Iceland for 2019, um you know, I was looking at you know, Googling everything and looking on YouTube and came across these two young lads um humping these massive uh rucksacks across Iceland. And went, well, Copstick, I've seen his name, and uh went on his Facebook and had had some great chats with Will. And you know, he he gave me loads of information at the time. He's probably forgotten now because he's um he's a guy who's just non-stop busy with with his sea kayaking and Patagonia and making all blokes like me jealous.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Well, it I mean makes us all all jealous, and and the uh the imagery, the videos that he gets back, and the the white water that he experiences and whatever. I mean, it's yeah, it's just a hundred percent adventure, and you can go the nice he's been on this podcast, of course. Uh yeah, I can't tell you which episode, but it was great. And he's um you know, you can join him for a paddle up in Scotland.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

So it's yes, well, um, well, I I would hope to join him on a paddle in Patagonia, actually. Um, because that's another dream destination of mine. That's more your ticket, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I I'm I may have to talk to you about a map of uh a very long route in Patagonia at some point.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Uh well it that would be uh that would be very, very doable, Dermot. Of course, as everybody knows, splash maps can make maps of anywhere. So let's get started on it. Derma, I brought you here for one reason and one reason only, and you know what that is. This is this isn't called the Adventure Habits podcast by Andy.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Um, and so I've asked you to prepare five adventure habits, and and I'm thrilled to know what what comes out of it. And you know, if if you could give us a little bit of where it's come from, uh each of these habits, because uh I that's that's the most intriguing thing for us. Okay, so far away. What's your first habit?

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Well, I I think uh this has been mentioned by you know by a few people, um Jamie Ramsey and um and Dawn, um which they call knowing your why, which is just you know, for me, is just your reason for doing it. And what's your real reason for doing it? Because we can all tell ourselves, and you know, for some people it is fundraising. You know, they've you know, I've I've got a friend who you know who had a um a heart attack and had to have a heart procedure and you know, training to get back his fitness and After that, yeah, he's he's done several things to um to raise money for the people who helped him. You've got people who've uh been down the road of having to go through cancer treatment, and you know, they go out and do charity events. But if you're like me, you I haven't really had um well, I mean, I could go out and fundraise for for veterans, which I have done a little bit in in the US, yeah, hiking there. But I mean, and I raise funds for Irish dogs for the disabled, who are fantastic charity, and it's their badge on the the map. And and you know, they they literally creating change is their is their motto because they do create change by supplying these assistance dogs primarily to kids, um which you know changes their life completely. But uh, and I've had a connection through my sister to that charity because she used to be a puppy socializer. But I mean my my real reason for this, and you know, we've all got ego, um, and denying that, and you know, even Will Copstick um has mentioned this that you can't really deny having an ego, uh, but it's management of that ego when you're out there. Um so I I I mean my real reason is uh I do it for me. I I do it because I like to push my limits. Um I like to remind myself that the 19-year-old that enlisted back in '88 is still kind of in there, um, and is still willing to to kind of get out there and and do stuff. Um so you know, there's that, and it's knowing that how far I can go um to do this thing.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

So the why is a much more personal thing. It it's that you are driven to um to test yourself.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Well, my girlfriend has mentioned some uh probably undiagnosed ADHD that I can't sit still and I'm a bit chaotic. Um there's a lot of that on the adventure. There's possibly an element of that in it as well that you know I've I've got to be doing something. So you know um it it's really kind of a personal thing where I need to know if I can still kind of have a go at doing something.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Um yeah, and you know what? It would be great to take everybody that's been on the pods and stick them on a spectrum somewhere. Um, but yeah, it's yeah, the AGHD thing is it it does come up more often than not. Um it is great. Um, and we have a lot of people on the pod who who who are uh you know organizations that helping people with PTSD, and uh so there's a lot of kind of impact of um military times and blue light times that actually lead people onto a life of adventure, and and it's the why is is getting to terms with things, and I think there's that's a great part of your story.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Perhaps you're you know, you go back to Yeah, it is because when I first started doing this, I I was I wasn't in the best place kind of mentally, again, PTSD um and relationship-wise, and had to justify that I was doing this for fundraising, purely for fundraising, when the real reason was actually being out in the wilds on my own, um, because it brings me closer to nature and being a bird watcher, that you know, you're not gonna get encounters um even in the fantastic area where I live, which is you know quite remote for Europe, but I'm not going to, you know, like happened like I did in Greenland when I went the second time, uh, be feet away from the Muskoks. Um, and getting you know, getting close-up photographs of you know these uh these fantastic beasts kind of in in the middle of the uh of West Greenland.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

It's amazing, isn't it? When you you kind of um you you go to places and then you meet people who've got the same thing, and that puts you in the same geographic location looking for the same thing. And we yeah, we had the same thing with Andy and Geese. Uh and uh I think we we ended up meeting the the guy that runs the fairy penguin colony down in down near Melbourne. Um and uh and then we got an invite over there, so we were then able to follow our kind of birding excitement from continent to continent. Um, so that's that's habit number one. It's about knowing.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Yeah, it's it's knowing knowing your knowing your why, as other people have framed it, is you know, your your kind of reason and a bit like you know, it comes from kind of you know, my my entrance into the Legion is knowing knowing and being honest with yourself why you're doing it. Yeah, yeah. Because when you know that it does help you're kind of mentally as to what you're doing and what and and where you're on the toughest day out there, you know why you're doing it. Yeah, that's the purpose and everything, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Cool, wonderful. Okay, so what would be your your second habit? So, first habit.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

So my second habit would be training, yeah. Um and and training it, you know, training physically, um, because you know, the you know, better condition you're in, the easier it's gonna be. It's it's never going to be it's never gonna be easy. You're gonna have easy days when you're out there, especially you know, especially when you're doing um, you know, like my last like my last big long one was when I spent two weeks in or 11 days in in Greenland. Um and I had some fantastic easy days, even though I was going over very rough terrain. Um and then I had some really, really tough days. And the better shape you're in, the better you're gonna make those tough days that little bit easier. Um, you know, when you're you know it was still the the Arctic springtime up there, and there was quite a lot of ice in areas and snowfields and stuff that hadn't melted, and you know, it you know, just getting across those and jumping from you know ice block to ice block, as I ended up having to do at one point, it it just makes that the physicality just it makes it that bit easier if you've trained as best you can for it. And so I'm I'm never gonna emulate the exact conditions, but you know, you can get close.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Um in my in my mind, uh you know, knowing what you're doing and you're dragging a trailer with you as well. It is that the a piece of rope around the waist and a big tire behind you as you uh do your best to progress yourself along.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Well, when I'm at work, um because we're in a remote location in the desert in North Africa, it's um the base that I'm on, we've got a nice track that goes round, and I literally I just pump a rucksack around and do laps and just put my headphones in and kind of you know, because laps are just so boring when you're looking at the same patch of sand continuously. Yeah, um, I just you know put on the the best music I can and do laps. And then when I'm home, um if I'm on the road, then I'm pulling the trailer behind me with um, yeah, I've got a pack that's loaded with five litre bottles of water um to to you know kind of mirror the weight that I'll be that I'll be pulling and pull that around.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

And then I get a particular track we should uh we should put in our minds as you're doing that.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Um well there's I live on the Loophead Peninsula, which you can you can see from the Admiralty chart behind me, but um beautiful, which is fantastic, and I use all these you know these small back roads. Um and I'm I'm sure because it's the part of the the um the cycle hub, the you know, the the cycle route around here. Um I'm I'm sure people would love a good splash map of that. Um yeah, and it's part of the wild Atlantic Way, which you know again, that would that wouldn't be a bad splash map for um for people who come along.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

We'd love we'd love to make maps of that as well. It's it's a good long route as well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 30:27

And it's it is it ends up being about 2,000 kilometres, which you know for Ireland is like unreal. You know, a small country, um, but a lot of coastline.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Yeah, too, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Okay, so great. So we've we've we've um got training as your Yeah, and and part of that training would be training with your gear. So if you've yeah, even even if you've got even if you've had your equipment for quite a long time, like I have, um, I'm reusing the same tent, I'm reusing the same you know, stove and stuff like that. Training with it, like getting out on a hill and you know, getting your tent up and making sure on a bad day that you can get that tent up and that you can get you know some um a water. Yeah, buildings new to you when yeah, but it's all quite worn in. Yeah, and but the thing is like familiarity, familiarity can breed contempt. So you know you expect that gear to work, but when that gear fails, what are you gonna do? And you know, training for those eventualities, like you know, even if you've had the kit quite a long time. But if you're brand new and you bought a brand new tent, brand new sleeping mat, that kind of stuff, it's you know, training with them and getting used to your gear. Cool. So great. Yeah, so even getting out and spending a night on the hill um with your gear is kind of the ideal thing to do.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Yeah, so no good just doing the uh the press-ups, the treadmills, the walking around the deserts, etc. You need to get that, get used to your kit, make sure you get the middle. And I guess that's um oh I I'm not gonna jump the gun with any of these other things, but I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna no, I'm not gonna guess what your next one might be. I'm gonna ask you, what is your third uh adventure habit?

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Well, it's well it's so there's my two next points really tie into the the use of my splash map, but uh research. So uh for me, research, I I plan my trips kind of a year ahead um because of I work a month on, month off. Um so I've got to line up everything with work-wise, with my back-to-back who I work with, and make sure that he's okay with me taking extra time off and coverage and all this kind of stuff. So I spend a year researching where I'm gonna go and what I'm gonna do. Um, and I always have kind of a focus as well about you know where I'm going. So Iceland, I well, Iceland I started researching in 2019. Well, 2019. In 2017, I started researching Iceland. Um, and you know, my my kind of goal being a bird watcher was you know going in June to Iceland, which is you know prime time for all the bird life to be around there. Um, so you you know, you literally you walk through turn colonies, you cross down through some of the you know some of the best breeding areas for birds in Europe. Um but I I do spend like I obsess on uh Google Earth um looking at routes, and you know, I'll cross over from Google Earth to OpenStreetMap and find these to try and find these trails that would be almost I won't say unwalked but less walked than anyone than you know other routes. So um so research and researching kind of the routes, researching, you know, kind of pouring through you know the internet and social media has been fantastic because you'll always find someone from the area, you'll find images and um of some of these regions and some of these remote spots. So research would be one of my big ones. Um and research with maps, importantly, and then and read well, I would I would say 95% of my research would be maps when I'm doing this stuff, yeah. Uh and how to get there.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

And I guess the big advantage of the maps, because obviously you get you've you've supplied us as uh GPX, so that's that's based upon the route that you've defined for yourself having done that research. But I guess the big advantage of having a map is it gives you the fluidity to know what's around you to take those more minor routes, etc., as you go up, or the more major ones if the minor ones are too challenging.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Yeah, yeah, and and you know, kind of my my follow-on point from research would be self-rescue, because um, as I know from personal experience, in 2019 in uh, or sorry, not 2019, but 2022 in Greenland, um I was nine kilometers from the from my finish uh when I ended up having fallen through ice uh in a remote valley in Greenland. Um twisted my hip and was stuck on the side and with you know deep, deep, slushy snow. Um that you know even my snowshoes wouldn't kind of really make it through because I was just sinking in it, um, with an injury and going, okay, how am I going to get out of here? Now the the technology plays its part massively on this because I was able to press the SOS button on my on my Garmin Inreach. Of course, yeah. Um, which put me on a direct line to the Search and Rescue Centre, International Search and Rescue Centre, who put me into a direct line with um with the Greenlandic Coast Guard. But I was able to like not just through technology, but from having poured over the maps and been so obsessed with the route, I was able to pinpoint exactly where I was and give them coordinates um and tell them you know kind of which angle to kind of come in on because you know the the cloud cover was coming down and you know I had to be airlifted out.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

So you can actually guide the helicopter in to pull you out.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. That is self-rescue for me is everything from injuring your feet, which has happened to me, um, how I'm gonna get out of that, that you know, with Iceland, because some of my trail is very remote, um, that if I have an injury, not only you know, calling the green the Icelandic uh rescue services, but if I have to walk off of my trail to somewhere where I'm likely to get help on the mountain huts, yeah, I I know where I'm going. And on my splash on my splash map, all those will be handwritten in to just go, right, it's here. You need to go take a left and uh and walk, you know, 5k.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

So my my hope is you'll finish that mission and you'll be able to wash those all off.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Oh, I think that one is going to be framed, and I'll just have to order a second one for you. Oh well, you know, we can do those things.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

Once the print file's there, we can reproduce for you. So self-rescue, that's that's a great that's a great one. And uh, what's your fifth and final adventure habit?

SPEAKER_01 37:50

So my um my fifth point would be kit because I'm I'm a bit kit obsessed, like many of many of us are. So it's um you know, my own kit. Uh with a lot of these, like a lot of the guys go through, um, guys and girls go through, um yeah, you when you're doing these long ones, you have to think about weight because ounces count. And even though I'm pulling uh a two-wheeled cart um that can carry 45 kilos, which gives me, you know, it's it's an all-terrain, all-terrain wheels, which thankfully having an engineer brother uh re-engine kind of re-engineered my cart to take these all-terrain wheels, which are not the standard one. Um I've still got to think about weight. So I've still got to look at you know my tent, um, how much does that weigh, how much food I'm bringing. Uh, part of the you know, part of this trail in Iceland, I'm gonna have to load up with water because the water in the rivers is just so loaded with silicates that it would destroy a filter.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Yeah, and I was warned, I was warned by a mountain biker about this. Um, that yeah, you're you're so close to water constantly, but you're not gonna be able, there's just all these silicates that get washed down from the glaciers, that it would destroy any filter that you have, and you wouldn't be able to drink it. Um so it means loading up with you know, I have these collapsible water water bags. Um so it means loading up those at a at a stop point and hauling those.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

You literally have to pick up fresh water as you go along. You can't rely upon the streams and and whatever and and clean up the in any way.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Yeah, some of them, some of them will be absolutely fine. I'd be able to just literally stick my cup in the water in the river and drink it. Yeah, you think that's one of the benefits of a remote location like Yeah, um, as it was in Greenland, you know, you could just literally drink any water you wanted up there and not have to worry about it. But you know, one of the quirks of Iceland is all this wash down, these these volcanic sediments and silicates and all this coming down, you just you know, you you can't drink the water. Um, it's you know, it paints pretty pictures in the landscape, but you know, so it's uh not not exactly good for your kit and and health. So kits of you know, my you know, stuff like that, you know, realizing that I need specialized, you know. Every every route has has its quirk, and some routes just you need to have certain kit to deal with the with the quirk of that area.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

And I and and so the kit goes together as well with the research, uh yes, it does, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

I mean how how else things kind of tie into uh and yeah, it all it all ties into the training as well, because okay, what am I going to encounter out there? Um, you know, research as well, and you know, I'm I'm obsessed with contours, yeah, really.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

Yeah, so yeah, well, uh well, there's a good number of those that I've counted uh on your on your particular uh trip to Iceland. They didn't make it flat, did they? Yeah. No, we thought about designing uh uh an island entirely out of volcanic stuff, you know. It's just a bad idea, I reckon. Just a bad idea. So we've got your five adventure habits, people, yeah, and that's it. Uh it's straight from um you know uh a uh a veteran of the French Foreign Legion and uh someone who's still practicing this stuff out in North Africa on a regular basis, keeping people safe. Um it's about knowing your real purpose.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

It's it's it is it is really knowing about knowing who you are, and and I'll say this as well. It's one of the things that I actually learned when I had to crash out in 2019 because of injuring my feet, and I was absolutely gutted. And I was um I was talking to a few of the the outdoors people because the outdoors community on social media has been absolutely fantastic. And I had one guy tell me, just remember, fail. First attempt, I learned. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that is one of the best acronyms that you can have because you're not always going to succeed, but you know, what's stopping you kind of going back? Because use it as a learning, you know, lose it, use it as a teachable moment. And yeah, when you know, when I injured my feet, I went, okay, I need a different type of boot or different type of shoe for this. I need you know, I had uh I had a rucksack failure on my first time in Greenland. Um, I went, okay, well, we're not buying that again. Um, so you know, first attempt I learned. And if yeah, if that's a if that's something that I can give to someone who's going to be listening to the podcast, just remember that. Don't be afraid of failure because that's how you learn.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

I love it. And that's specifically tied up with don't have a fear of failure, I guess. You know, it's it's F-A-I-L.

unknown 43:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Um, okay, great. I've I've got an uh you know another one that I heard was that um, you know, you're either winning or you're learning, and and it's you're either in one of those two modes, you're not losing ever. Yeah, um, and then uh then obviously that follows with the training, the research, the self-rescue, and your kit choices as well. Which it's it's I'm almost seeing a pyramid of things sitting on top of each other and like the kit choice at the very pinnacle of that. Oh, yeah, yeah. And Derma, uh I'm so thrilled that you've been able to help us launch this new Iceland Iceland map.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

So am I, actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

Uh I think yeah, if if it works for you, guys, it will work for you as well. Uh exactly. There's no doubt about it. And and Derma, would you please tell us if it does break or you know let you down in any way whatsoever? We will uh dutifully pass that on to uh to uh customer base and uh you know it well i i intend on sending you lots of lots of nice photographs with uh with my splash map included in them well i'm expecting it to survive and um yeah and look out for those sunny days remember it also doubles up as a bandana absolutely well what it's with um with having a lack of hair on my head yeah it uh it may come into may come handy okay so if you want that iceland map it is now launched it's available on our website uh and just go onto the website and tap in Iceland uh use the magnifying glass that's the easiest way to do it tap in Iceland and you will find uh the details of that map uh obviously this is going to be on um Apple Pods it's gonna be on Spotify it's gonna be on YouTube as well so please like share and subscribe and just let us know in the comments below what you think of um of Dermot's trip and please contribute if you can so we'll put your fundraising link uh underneath oh excellent thank you very much yeah it's a fantastic charity Irish dogs to the disabled are an absolute fantastic charity and they do so much good work that you know I'm even though it's my primary reason for going these places is you know myself and and getting out in nature I every time I go I will be raising funds for them. They're lucky to have you Dermot and thank you so much for your generous time today. I think we'll all have learned a lot from that.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

Great thank you very much David okay bye bye bye Num