Episode 36 - Nicky Chisholm

In this episode of Adventure Habits, David Overton sits down with open water swimmer, community leader, and ocean advocate Nicky Chisholm, better known as Pink Nicky.

As the organiser of Brighton's Big Swim and a passionate campaigner for cleaner seas, Nicky shares how open water swimming has shaped her life, built powerful communities, and inspired thousands of people to embrace adventure while protecting the natural world.

Together, they discuss cold water swimming, ocean safety, mental resilience, environmental activism, Surfers Against Sewage, and the importance of stepping outside your comfort zone. Nicky also reveals her five personal adventure habits- from building the right adventure community to developing the mindset needed to overcome challenges in some of the world's most extreme environments.

Whether you're an experienced swimmer, an outdoor enthusiast, or simply looking for inspiration to start your own adventure, this conversation is packed with practical advice, unforgettable stories, and a genuine passion for the water and the wild places that connect us all.


Nicky’s essential Links!

Prefer your water without turd? Sign Surfers Against Sewage Petition   https://www.sas.org.uk/water-quality/our-water-quality-campaigns/dirty-business-petition/

Educate yourself on the scandal of our Water Industry, Watch Dirty Business Channel 4 

The Big Swim Impact Report 

The Big Swim Collective 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hello and welcome to Adventure Habits with me, David Overton and Splash Maps, the podcast where we get the world's best adventurers on to on here to share with you their adventure habits. First of all, we want to start off as always with a good introduction and a good reason why you should listen to this person for Adventure Habits. At this time, it's a really special one. Yeah, we're going to a deep and watery place, a very cold place that I don't normally go into. But I'm hoping that our guest today, uh Nikki Chisholm, uh also known as Pink Nikki, the convener of uh the the Brighton's big swim uh and uh amongst many many other things, a serial campaigner and a great open water swimmer. Um I'm hoping that she can get us comfortable with open water. Uh Nikki, it's so good to have you on the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Thank you so much, thank you. It's lovely to be here. Um yeah, I actually took off of open water swimming. I actually took my splash map to Jersey a little while ago. No, um and we swat we swam in loads of different bays all over the um the island. So it was really good to have the the map, and sometimes you can't swim north because of the tides or the weather, so you swim south. So there's lo obviously it's an island, there's loads of little bays, and it was really handy to my where can we get where can we get to, how do we get there? Um so it was yeah, it was really useful, and I had and the whole my whole splash map was able to show the whole of the island. So I quite like that visually to see everything and then where I can go. So no, it was really good. So yeah, that's how I um I came to find out about you. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

It's great, that's great. Well, what a great set, what a great way to get started. Well, I mean, as we we've got a lot of um yeah, for for swimming, it works then.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Oh, absolutely, because swimmers, my swimming community, I'm not joking, they swim all over the world. They swim all over the world, um, they love swimming, they swim in all sorts of places cold, hot, islands, coastal, inland waters, rivers, estuaries. Um, and the maps, I think, um, I know that they'd love it, and they'd love it for two reasons. I think everyone loves a mile, it's like a what's it like a trophy or a treasure. So you get, you know, if you do an event, you get a yeah, memento, that's what I was trying to say. So it's a really good memento because a lot of people do really big swims, they do it for a reason, they do it because charity, mental health, um they've got something to mark, um, and they make really good mementos. So um yeah, I think the swimming community they definitely need to have a bit of um splash maps, that is for sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

And it's they they get used a lot by um by uh uh uh what what I was gonna say open water canoeists, but is there any other sort of canoe? So I was gonna see sea kayakers in particular. Um because we do the hydrographic charts as well, but of course they lack quite a lot of detail as as to uh what's right at the water's edge, you know. That's more as what do you want to avoid when you're in the water, and so that the canoeists are more looking for well, what am I gonna see when I'm sitting on the water looking back at the land from a low level? And sea charts don't actually do that. So we've got one uh Will Copsteak who actually has us mark on the tidal markers for him as well. So he gets an ordinance survey map, but it's kind of got these hydrographic features on that we've added uh so that he knows oh, there's a riptide that comes through this section, so I'm not gonna paddle there at that time of day, that sort of thing. So all that's fun. Great to know that it works. So that we're getting getting down to kind of like the equivalent of the uh the the on-foot traveller, but in the water when we're with you, really, aren't we?

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Yeah, no, absolutely. It does work. Um, and I had it in the water with us, and we're marking out where we wanted to go next. So, um, yeah, no, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Well, I know, really appreciate it, and and and Nikki, you're one of uh a very small handful of people that we picked um to be, you know, our our supermodels for this season, and uh and you've come up, Charms, with some fabulous photographs. Um, people, you'll see those going out through our Instagram accounts, and uh and and do look out for them, and there'll be more of those as as the season goes on from more adventurers. You're the first of those adventurers to make it onto uh uh onto adventure habits as well. So really pleased to have you here. And this episode actually goes out the 5th of July, um, which is just a couple of weeks before our favourite adventure show, which is full of uh open water swimmers. It's the armchair adventure festival. I I don't know if you if you yeah, I've heard of it.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Yeah, it's um there's a super show, and uh yeah, it's kind of small and yet to be recognized and discovered by a lot of people, but it is it's our our favourite festival of the year, so we just we go to that one rather than the really big ones. Um so Nikki, while you're here, there's a lot of uh you know this is one of the interviews that I've done, which is kind of with touch points on so many things. We've just had a heat wave, and there was some really sad news about people that are going out into the water, getting into the trouble, and uh an alarming amount of um uh of deaths that were reported. Of course, what we see in the news is always tip of the iceberg stuff, right? It's the sensationalist stuff. But um what are your thoughts on uh people on really hot days jumping into the water? Was that seasonal just because it was really early in the season that May?

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Um I I do know it happens every single year, and because I live in Brighton, I live like literally five minutes from the the water, happens every single year. Um and you see it, you see it's it's just people that are not used to it. Mother Nature will always win, she will always win, and she's a for formidable opponent, and you should never mess with her. Now, people that know that they know that it's the people that don't know that that should know that. Now, if you're coming down from London um for the weekend, you're with your kids, um, you see it again, they go out on inflatables. The inflatables obviously sort of so high off the water, they get caught with not so much of a big wind, and they get caught. So we've had we had that last weekend. Um, you get the swimmers that jump off the pier, um, and they think, yeah, this is really cool, or um they call it is it tombstoning where they jump off of things and jump into the water. Yeah, um and I don't realise when you it hit the water is actually hard, you know. It's it's quite a it's hard and it's shocking. I've done it before.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

So there's this tombstoning thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Yeah, so so um it happens every year. Um you know, we get jumping off the pier, jumping the tombstoning off the groins, people are not used to it. Hitting the water is really hard rather than people think it's soft, it's not, takes your breath away. The water's actually still cold, especially if you go further out, um, and you're not used to long immersions in the water. Um, then it you know it is dangerous. You have to be you have to be so mindful. Um I was in when I was in Jersey literally a couple of weeks ago, we were swimming maybe 500 metres from the coast, and you could stand, but we were swimming between like a little island and the coastline. You could actually stand up to basically sort of like uh sort of thigh level, and the w the water the tide was cut the tide was changing and coming in. It was so strong just in that level of water, I actually scared me, and I you know I should know better, and I was like, Oh my god, this is crazy. I can put my feet down, um, and you um and it was scary, and then another time that then later on that day we were coming down some steep stairs to the coastline, and you could actually see um a like a riptide coming onto the beach, you could see it as we walk down, and obviously they had lifeguards, but to actually see it so clearly as you're walking down, and then ten minutes later it's gone. Um, so you know you have to be really mindful, really aware, we're wary of the tides, wary of the temperature, um, and people are just not, um, and it happens every year, and the R and L I are out, um, they were out uh over the weekend, somebody jumped in in the middle of the night because they're drunk, they jumped off the pier. Um, no, so we do get it a lot, and I think it's just mindful. Like people send they put the kids in like the inflatables. My boys are 21 and 18, and I've got an inflatable um paddle board, but I'm not I just don't give it to them unless I'm there, because I just don't trust them to float off down to off to France.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Yeah, that's it's a dangerous age, isn't it? Because you're completely invincible and uh all of that.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

And as we know, you're not invincible. So uh yeah, I I think people just need to proceed with caution and always, always watch their kids, you know, watch each other. I mean, I have somebody who's got um a tracker, you know, like the um airpod trackers on their um paddle board. Um, you know, you think Christ alive, you shouldn't really need that, and you shouldn't be doing what you're doing if you need the tracker on your board. But I do I do get it, but um you have to be super mindful and super careful because um you will never win.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

And and do you think there is this um I mean a lot of the talk at the time, I'm going back to May now. It was it was a talk of the the the uh the shock of the temperature difference if you're if you're in like 30 degrees out if you're swimming, there is the there is the shock of getting out of the warm air and into the water. That's a genuine thing, right? And that can freeze you in your tracks if you're not used to it.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Yeah, absolutely absolutely. Um, and we always say like um a lot of a lot of our swimmers they swim, they swim throughout the winter, so they're completely used to it, and a lot of them swim in just swimming costumes throughout the winter. I don't, I'm a massive baby, I'm covered head to toe in neoprene, so I'm not one of those. But the the principle uh um still applies. You're used to it, you can get in, you can deal with it, and you can stay for you know a pi a longer period of time. If you're not used to it, you go in and it does it is a shock, um, and it does take your breath away. All across the country, you see this Christmas Day, people go in for a Christmas Day swim, um they don't swim for the rest of the year, they think they're gonna have some shenanigans and some fun. I mean, my god, the actual physiological response um to getting in the water is it's physical and it's mental the response. One is oh my god, I'm going to have a heart attack, my my heart is breathing quickly. And two, your brain is going, get me out of here, this is dangerous, and it absolutely is. Um so if if you're not used to it, you know, I just say you shouldn't do it. You just you just shouldn't do it. Just dip your toes, have some fun, be part of anything, any event, um, and don't do it unless you're used to it. I mean you can't you just can't be clearer than that. You just really can't.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

And the best way to get used to it is to swim.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

It's to swim all the time. It's just to swim.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Yeah, give it give it a go. And I guess, yeah, well your your your big thing is is swimming in groups, right? It's uh Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

So um so we have swum. So the the big thing that I do as I run the big swim. So it's um a big um a big event which is held once a year in Brighton at Sea Lanes, um, and we have the other half of it is in pool with land and wave. So we've got multi multi-sites, and over that's over those two sites we have over 1200 women that take part. It's to celebrate International Women's Day, uh, it's to raise money for surfers against sewage, um, and also it's to elevate the the message of ocean advocacy in sewage pollution, look after the world, you know, do your litter picking. Um, so we get that across on the day with um we have surfers against sewage do the a little bit of um an intro, we have a beach clean, we have loads of brilliant signs. People are so utterly brilliant with how they turn up. They turned up in uh monsters, mermaids, um uh flamingos, sea monsters, and they have great placards, they make a real effort. People really, really, really care. And they turn up and they've got these outfits and they've made these signs, they care, they've bought a ticket. They are showing, they're turning up and they're showing that they're supporting that um ocean advocacy. People are not always sure how to do stuff. If you're not a marine biologist, you can still look after the world. You know, you haven't got a master's or a PhD in uh um you know a science or chemistry. It doesn't matter. You can have different pathways into ocean advocacy. Um, and we just want to get all those people for the big swim on the beach and basically saying, You're here, we're celebrating, we're dancing, we have choirs, we had our own very own rap this year, we had poets. Um it was it's just really good to get everyone together. And we do say, if you're a swimmer, obviously you can come along in your swimming costume or your um your wetsuit. If you're new to it and you're not a swimmer because it's in March and it's freezing, uh we say dip your toes. Yeah, just literally dip your toes. And if I could bottle, if you can find a way around this for me, David, if I can bottle the sound of twelve hundred women entering the water, it is just joy. It's utter joy. It's screaming, it's laughing, it's splashing, it's messing around, it's shenanigans, it's whooping, it's fun, it's laughter. It it just in those few seconds, honestly, you just makes your heart sing.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

There's got to be a way of making that tangible, and we're the people for it.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

So I know, honestly, it is it is it is so so good. And then obviously you've got put the people in the water, then there's the sort of there's the the fun and the celebration and the fundraising side of it, then you're in the water and you feel good, um, it makes you happy, um, uh you know your happy hormones are released, there's that massive sense of community. Um, you know, no one's gonna look their best on the beach in neoprene booties, uh your neoprene hats with a you know monster in dressed as like sea monsters, but it's so well. Yeah, I mean I mean I'm I'm a terrible, I'm terrible. I'm either go big or go home. I that's always been my philosophy. Go big or go home. Um it's really welcoming, so it doesn't matter who you are, what you do, where you know, what you think you look like, what you don't think you look like, it's just turn up and do your thing.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

You know, just do your entry point to this could be like uh deep-seated or maybe even an unrecognized as-yet interest in ocean advocacy, which I think uh we should all have. I mean, I I it in particular, you I mean, yes, you've mentioned your one of your partners in this is um uh surfers against sewage.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

And uh, you know, I'm fairly fresh from having uh watched dirty business. Oh you realise how our whole water system has been sold to external powers that are just more interested in flushing raw sewage down our delicate ecosystems and straight out into the sea to harry you guys than they are in actually keeping the keeping the the water system going and economical for the rest of us. And uh why should we pay for the big errors that they've made over time? Which uh, you know, it really does feel like well you watch that programme and you you see completely everything.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

I would say to your listeners, definitely watch it. It's eye-opening, it will definitely make you cry. I like I think everyone I've spoken to, it makes you cry. It's because it's got a personal, personal side to it, as well as looking at the sort of like um the more statistical and the the yeah, it's I mean that's the bit that it's really it's a really horrible watch, you know. Basically, one family goes to the beach as a four on a holiday and they come home as a three because of E. coli on the beach. No one no one was ever going to admit to it. Um, and I would definitely say do watch it because it brings home the message of um the the the problem that we're dealing with at the moment. It's I mean surfers against sewage has been going for decades, they've constantly been fighting, and it's still going on. Um surfers against sewage now across the country. That I wanna I'm one of the representatives in Brighton, and um I think there's like 250 reps all over the country, and our job is to um raise awareness of what's currently going on. So, you know, we were um getting the message out to watch the documentary. We have big events like um the paddle out protest, which is in Brighton, it's quite a flagship one. So I think we had about three, four hundred people at the flagship one, um, and that is um that is um amplified across the country. Um so they had 50 groups this year, all with the public turning up, basically saying we're sick of the sewage problem. Um you know, it's is I just think it's lovely that people turn up because I think you have to be part of the solution. It's easy to sit at home, and people always say to me, Oh Nikki, what can you do? You're just one person. But then I think, well, actually, no, I'm not. I do the big swim, I raise money for it, so we raise two and a half grand this year. Then we've got 1200 people that turn up all with the signs. That then makes the BBC, ITV, the Tet The Times, the Telegraph, The Sun, um open water swimming magazines. So I yes, you are one person, but I do I do believe you have to be, you have to, you you just have to be part of the solution. Um so it you know it it it does work. So yeah, any of you out there, um, please um watch the documentary and sign. There's a current currently there is a um petition online, you can do it through the Surface Against Switch website. Can I give you the link to that, David?

SPEAKER_01 18:15

We certainly can, and I will make sure it's on uh it's it's on the uh on the show notes for this for this uh particularly.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Yeah, and then people can sign up and again show their support because basically what it is it's constantly giving evidence um um to basically say, you know, we've had enough and you've got to do something about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Yeah. I I mean and I remember watching that programme and there are some like really cringe worthy uh they play the kind of management level in in the environment agency and in the uh in the water companies really quite well. I think they they had to play them quite well. I I noticed they used a good raft of comedy actors to get the that's the civil service-ness or the sloping shoulderness of the whole thing uh so well. And um and I noticed actually that my local water supplier, Southern Water, are actually putting on something uh on the at the Points uh Theatre uh in Eastley on the 14th of July. I mean, I know that's a bit local to those folk in Hampshire, but there are these uh attempted outreach occasions, and uh I I'm gonna go along to mine, and I hope a lot of other people will as well, because I want to have answers. I want to have answers from those guys. What are they doing? What kind of legislation is going to get them going? And I don't know, Nikki, have you got any any sort of questions that you would hope people would put to people like Southern Water?

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Do you know what I've actually I know it sounds really sad, but I've actually lain in bed and I think how can they get away with it for so long? There is now so much evidence, um, like there's video evidence, there's photographic evidence. Um the surface against sewage on their app have a um a form that you can fill in if you've been ill. So if you've been ill and you've when you've been in the water, so they're actually collecting evidence of dates, times, people, um, you know, they they there's so much evidence out there, but it's so it's like it's like visual criminalization, and I don't know how they get away with it. But so I was looking at something this morning. So I was looking at the Surfers Against Sewage uh Instagram, and they've got breaking news on their Instagram. So if you're out there, follow Surfers Against Sewage, and it basically it's basically what they're doing is they're taking the government to court. Um so they're launching a judicial review to challenge the new reliability testing that they're bring that they want to bring in from I think from this spring this year. And the idea behind it is that they're that they will test different sites to see if it's feasible to improve them. Now if they want to improve them, they can then be designated as bathing water. But the irony behind that is if they which they're not gonna put out there, if it's already polluted and they think it's too expensive to unpollute it, they won't they won't help it and they won't clean it up and they it was too expensive, so they won't give it designated bathing water. So it's one of these ones that you just think it's just a like an admin exercise.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Um it's been wiggled down, hasn't it, by layers of civil service and layers of of commercial business.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Yeah, because if it's not designated as bathing water, they won't look after it. Um and then the r we can't record if it's being polluted. Um it's just it's just madness. But Surfers Against Sewage have got a law firm behind them, they're helping it, and they they you know, they're so good. They're doing the grassroots stuff, which is where all us reps come in, and then they're doing the big stuff, um, you know, let's see what's happened with our ch you know, change uh what's going on in the government at the moment, the changes, and let's see, you know, if they promise to then they're th the idea is that they're taking it and making them you know, pri privatising them.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Yeah, I mean the whole yeah, that that's That's at the root of the problem. Um, and uh I don't know, anyone watching this, just make sure you're following Nikki's stuff, make sure you're following um surfers uh against sewage. And you know, people like Chris Packham and and you know, my favourite irate man, uh Fergal Sharkey. Uh I mean how long's he been going on?

SPEAKER_00 22:18

He's been a long he's been a l I mean. I think you know Chris Packham and Fergal Sharkey, they've been leading the way for decades.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

You know, they really have. I think you've just you've got to be part of the solution. So watch, educate yourself, sign the petition, um, you know, and and see what you can do. One person can make a difference.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Fantastic. This almost sounds like a habit.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Uh, here we go.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

We're bringing ourselves into the the the second part of this now, Nikki. Now we we we know your passion for open water swimming. You were bound to have some adventure habits. And I was quite surprised to learn that you hadn't actually written them down before I actually asked you to write them down a couple of weeks ago before we had this uh before we booked this in. Um so I'm just wondering what would be your first of your five adventure habits?

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Well, I didn't realise that I have this habit, but I have got groups of adventure buddies. So I've got like my swimming group, I've got my cold, um my cold extra cold adventure group, then I've got my walking group. So I've got different groups, and what we've done over the last sort of five or ten years, we've always done something every year. So my um my cold, as I called them my cold crew, so the last few years we've done a few crazy things, we've lived off grid in a cabin in Sweden. We've um done a self-supported cross-country ski expedition in Finland, and then just this year we've done dog slaying in Sweden, went back to Sweden. Um so every year, I didn't it was it's a habit, it's like, oh, these are my cold girls, we've got to go on a cold adventure. So they're my crew, so we don't do hot stuff together, we do cold stuff together. So they're my different adventure buddies, and then my swim buddies we just went to Jersey, and we went to Jersey last year as well because we loved it so much. We went back, um, and we've literally we're terrible by but by the time we've even come home from a trip, we've already booked an event um which is a 24-hour swim in Shepperton for 2027. So we've got our next, so we're forming our next habit for next year, um, and then my walking buddies. Again, we've done loads of big walking marathons, we did a trip to the Isle of Sky. Last year we went to Marseille on a hiking trip, um, and we're just planning this year. So, yeah, once a year with my core groups, we go away. If if your dates in the diary, it means you you focus, you train, you get your ass into gear, and you've got something fabulous to look forward to when sometimes the mundaness of life can take over. So that's my number.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

So your your your habit is really um categorize your friends and go on the adventures that they're most attuned to, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Is that yeah, and I didn't realise that, but I thought I've got my possies, my little my little tribes for each different thing because my my cold ones don't like necessarily like the swimming, although we did um jump in an ice hole when we were in Finland, but we all screamed and got out. There was no swimming, it was more screaming and getting out. So yeah, we we they don't sort of cross paths yet.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Yeah, I mean I love that. I mean, if you've got a yearly uh commitment and you're up front about it, then you know all the plans can go around those and people won't be competing for your time, etc. At those moments, you know, you'll know no, that's when my cold posse are out in the Arctic Circle, so you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

But also because it means you can save up. So I know every year I think right I'm saving up for that one again, so that's next January. So you get a year to save up, and also I mean some of the the cross-country skiing ones, we were out for seven days, and it's it's knackering, so you need to, you know, you need to train, have your wits about you, carry your rucksack, you know, you need to there's a lot of prep that goes in it as well, so it it helps form that habit.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we uh our some of our previous adventures have called have called that have a non-negotiable. You know, that's it. We're we're going out, we're doing this at that time, and uh, you know, whether you're coming with me or not, that's it. Yeah, we'll go out and do it. But I love yours because it's so you because it's they're about groups. Uh and uh Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Um I yeah, I think I'm definitely a group. I like doing stuff, but there's no fun doing stuff unless you're sharing stuff. You know, I'm not one for doing being in the arse end of nowhere for six weeks. I just want to have fun and laugh and be silly and really enjoy it. I mean, yeah, it's really serious at times. We've been in the middle of nowhere in the Arctic Circle in this little remote hut. We had a quiz and we danced to ABBA. You know, you can you can make it what you want it to be.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Sure, sure. Well, that's that's great. So I'm I'm I'm kind of um I've summarised that one as go on posse specific adventures. Hopefully that doesn't trample over your second habit or third habit or fourth habit.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

Oh my my second habit okay, my second habit is and I wherever I go in the world, I take these things. So I've got a pillowcase that my mum gave me when I was I mean, I'm talking little, like three, four, or five. It's pink with cats on it, and I take that everywhere. So it's like a benchmark. If I'm going to sleep that night, I've got my pillowcase, it reminds me of home, I'm good to go, I'm good to have a good sleep.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Plus, it's on brand, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:28

It's what?

SPEAKER_01 27:29

It's on brand.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

It's on brand. Who knew? Who knew I'd be into pink like when I was three or four? Now I'm fifty-three. Um, I always take digestive biscuits with me wherever I am in the world. Um, I have had digestive biscuits in the Amazon, in the Arctic Circle, um, in a tree house.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

That's a McVitie's addiction, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Oh my gosh, it's a family thing. We're all of us we're terrible. With a cup of tea, and again, it's a benchmark. If you can have a black tea and a digestive, I think you know you're alright. Because you know, sometimes you're in a crazy situation or it's difficult, you had a long day. But I think it's always like my it's just a benchmark. If you can just nibble on a brisket, have a black tea, you know, you're okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

So that's a weird one. So yeah, that's that one.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

And then the weird stuff bring your comforts, I suppose, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Yeah, bring comforts. But I've also got my little weird bag that people think that you know when they open it up, they say, Nikki, what are you doing with this weird bag? So I always carry duct tape. Duct tape is so handy.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

These aren't just comforts, are they?

SPEAKER_00 28:39

No, so these are like my my go-to things. So duct tape, a sarong, and I've got like a little good luck charm which says Adventure Mind on it. So it's a tiny little embroidered gingerbread man, and they they come everywhere. So the sarong you can always use for tying things, for putting over your head, a scarf, a picnic blanket, uh, the duct tape, uh like wind kit's broken, windows are rattling, you need to mark something. People always take the Mickey out of me, but I tell you what, it's come in super handy.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Well, I tell you what, I was uh, you know, uh fabric that double up as stuff. I was actually sunbathing behind this. My family love the sun on the beach, and I just scuttle. I'm a bit like a hermit crab, I'll scuttle from shade to shade. Oh, and uh and this provided me a good amount of shade. It's kind of like a proper um large tablecloth size portion of the world, and uh it just does it just does the job. You hang it from your from your parasol, and um yeah, no, no one can look in, and you're kind of nicely shaded. So that's yeah, that's my the occurrence on the beach, I thought.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Yeah, I definitely I think I'm gonna I want one, I'm gonna get one of those because that could be my new sarong, and I can take that and I can pinpoint where I've been. Yeah, so that was my very good idea. Always pack kind of like my treats, my luxuries, and then I always pack my my like my duct take my sarong and my good luck charm.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

Okay, so I'm gonna call those your always packs.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Oh, okay. I'll I'll I'll take that. My always pack.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Your always pack. Yeah. Okay, good, good, good, good. So that's good. We've got a couple of good habits there. What's your third one?

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Okay, what's my third one? What did I put here? Oh, I wasn't quite sure how to how to my habit is always to have an adventure. I I mean I've been doing have an adventure since I was a kid. I had my first adventure when I was 18. I sailed on the Sawinchton Churchill, which is a tall ship, um, and sailed over to France as a you know, a real sort of what's the word, green and naive, and I was seasick and I was homesick. I was in a right old pickle. Um, but that you know, since then, but ever all every year since then I've always had some sort of adventure. And then when I was looking back, I was thinking, my adventure journey has changed. So when you're young, you know, and you're a you know young teen, um, then you're in your twenties, and then you've born up as a mum with young children, young boys, then they're older, they're teenagers. So my adventure journey has changed with what I've been able to do. Um, and now my adventure journey journey is changing again because now my eldest is 21, my youngest is 18, and now my adventures can be big again. No, big, you know, like going off to Peru for two, you know, going off to Peru on adventure, um, going off to stay in a remote cabin. I don't the kids aren't coming with me, they don't want to come with me, but the habit is there, it's always I'm on an adventure, um, I'm gonna do adventure, I've always got a million ideas in my head, um, but it's always to have one up my sleeve. I definitely think I've always, always got adventure up my sleeve, and I think your adventure journey will change, and I think it won't ever stop changing because my mum said to me, she was 80 last year, and I said, What do you want for your birthday? And she said, Can I fly over the Atlas Mountains in an air balloon? I was like, Christ alive, mum, how, how, what, and what and how and why? She's still good at her 80. And I was like, Mum, I love you. I love you. So, do you know what? We kind of made it happen.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Yeah, I mean there are people like that. We we went to uh you know, your mum sounds amazing, uh, and and but it is amazing when you go to uh we were at the destination show and the adventure travel show this year, and and it's amazing how many people are in their 80s and really having a great time. My own mother-in-law was just out in Uzbekistan and she just turned 80 this year, and she always travels independently. Uh to my mind, respect. You know, I've I'd I'd love to do that at my age, but uh yeah, I mean we're we're kind of similar, similar uh age to you, but my my uh adventure habit is becoming doing long distance walking, and so we're hence the new challenge series of maps and the Caminos that we're picking off bit by bit.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

So uh yeah, all of that fun. But uh yeah, I mean your sounds yours sounds on another scale. Yours yours is almost on like the the the John Blashford Snell type scale, as we'd say. That's he's one of our ambassadors and he started Operation Rally, which sounds not dissimilar to you know your first experience on a tour ship.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Um you know, that a real way to to get yourself used to that habit of adventure, which sounds like it's an excellent third habit. It does sound a bit like the title of this um this uh this show. Maybe I need to change it, make it something less uh less prescriptive. Anyway, that's a thought for another day. What's your fourth habit?

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Okay, so adventure uh okay, so the habits, now I think this is everybody that's been on adventures will totally get this. When you have adventures, you're gonna have curveballs, without a doubt. Part of having an adventure is the curveballs, because the curveballs make the cracking stories, but you need a habit that goes with it to deal with the curveballs when they come your way. So when you're ill, um you reach into your first aid bag because it's a habit, you've got a first aid bag, it's packed with all the goodies that you'll need. Um, if you've lost your passport, all your stuff is on Dropbox, so it's a habit. Before you go away, you upload everything, you know the itinerary, you know your contacts, you know where you're going, so it's a habit. Um I've whenever I go on an adventure, I've always got like a bag of food. So if I can miss one meal, because I'm horrible when I'm hungry. So I think if I get somewhere, my habit would always be in my bag. I've got an emergency like ration pack or I've got snacks, I've got dehydration tablets. So if you miss a meal, um you can have some water, you can have your um have your food or your snacks or whatever. Um so you you know the curveballs will come and you're already prepared for it because you're you you know you ha you you know you've got a habit of packing your rucksack right, and then you can deal with it. So and I've all the things that have gone wrong, I was thinking about this, all the things that have gone wrong, they've always happened at the end of the day. Now you get lost because you're tired. Um I fractured my fibula in Finland, and it was the end of like a really long day, 10-hour day. I was in the middle of nowhere, I had to get dragged home in a polka for two days, and it happened at the end of a long day. And it's just because you're tired, you're hungry.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Oh, and I just think so. My habit now is I'll always stop an hour before I think I should. That's my rule now. That's my habit. I always stop an hour before I should because you know I just don't want to get into a pickle, and it's always when I you know, like everyone, you're tired, you're hungry, you're cold, and cold. So you know, you know, you're cold, so you're not thinking about what you should be thinking about. Um so yeah, that that yeah, that's my habit.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Well, great, great. Well, I'm kind of thinking your habit there is to make it a habit to have a habit because you nobody likes to fracture a fibia in Finland, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Absolutely not. Can I tell you, I've got one more habit there. So my other habit is wherever I go, in my bra, I've always got like your sports bra on, I've always got paracetamol or ibuprofen, chocolate, and what's the other thing? I'm often allergic to things, so like Puriton. So if you just, you know, like literally, because you don't want a rummage in your bag, you know, if it's pouring with rain or it's snowing and you can't stop or it's minus 15, I just quickly rip them out of my bra, shove them in, and I know I'm gonna be okay. So I've always got stuff stuffed in there. Not that you'd know about that, but that is a habit that I'm I do.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

You've just given me a great excuse to start wearing a bra, Nikki. I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

So I know, but there, yeah, that's another habit, and I tell you, I cannot tell even begin to tell you how many times they've worked a treat.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

No, it it's it's good. I mean, we're we're we're well in the game of keeping things on hands here at Splash Map, you know. That the the whole the whole thing is that uh, you know, whatever the weather or occasion you can kind of reach for one and just uh just get paid for it. But uh yeah, see if you can put a map pouch in the bra as well, see if that works for you, and um and that could become part of your regular as well.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Absolutely. I think wherever I go, I'll stuff it down there. I don't think you want me on your uh what you call it, on your reels or your insta doing that, but you know what, it's a habit.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

It would get the viewers, definitely. Uh and so we're up already to your your fifth habit. I've by the way, I think you have been cheating because you crammed a lot of habits into that.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

No, no, it's it's good stuff. It means uh it can save people time on all the other episodes to an extent, but oh god, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

Okay, I left my favourite till last. Now, this is a cracker. I left it till last of my favourite. So this is called my pink circle habit. Um, and this can be used by anyone out there, wherever you are, whatever you're doing, and going through a difficult time. So I was training for a half marathon in Greenland. Um, I did all my training, I got my kit, I did my food and my fueling. What I didn't have was the mental training. So I worked with a coach and she and I was saying, Look, I can do all the kit stuff and I've done all the training, I can tick all that off. But when I get into a pickle in the middle of nowhere and I'm having a panic, because I have had panic and I've started to cry and I was thinking, Oh my god, what am I doing? Um, she said, Right, this is what you do. So you're skiing along or you're walking along, you're having a bad day, it's pouring with rain, or it's freezing cold, you throw down a metre, like a metre diameter circle in front of you. So you throw it down sort of 50 yards ahead and it's flashing toward you. So you're visualising it, it's on the ground, and it's flashing and it's sparkly, and it's warm, and it's full of love and energy. So as you're marching through it, you step into this circle, you power up like a battery, and you crack on. So if you need to do the circle another 50 metres ahead, you just throw it down in your head, and whatever's gonna make you um whatever's gonna power you up, and you're thinking of family at home, or as you walk through, you sing an ABBA song, or you take a gummy bear out of your you know your pocket, shove it in, or a bit of chocolate. So use it as a power-up, you use it as a moment of positivity, you use it as why are you here? I wanted to be here, I've paid to be here, it's taking me two years to get here. So it's a power-up. So whoever you are and wherever you are in the world, choose your colour, choose your circle, choose what you want in it, and march through it with proper mission and go, right, I'm powering up and I'm cracking on.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

I love that. So it's a completely visualized trick of the mind that you can use to pull yourself through to whatever comes next, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Yeah, it's like tricking your brain, you know, like um you can get into a circle of negativity. So the idea is that it's linear, so you're marching, marching through through it, and then it's positivity, and you can throw it down as many times as you want, you know. Um, and I just think it was a really clever one to pull out the back. And a few times when I was um in Greenland, I was like, you know, I did panic a few times, and I just threw it down, and I thought, right, I I'm you know, I know everything, I know I can everything's good. My fueling, my kit, my shoes, my spikes, everything. Throw it down and it did work. I mean it's meant it's mental, but we know it's mental. We know this stuff works.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, a lot more, and I think it you know, it it it's a qu a question of tapping that stuff and uh and giving yourself the self-belief. And uh I love all those meant mental tricks, and uh yeah, it it it I think it it's great. It's the whole mind over matter type thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 40:45

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Brilliant. Well, look, Nikki, let me just run through your adventure habits for you as well. You know, I I I might have summarized them a bit quirkily, but uh um so you know have have a um uh what did we say have a posse specific set of adventures every year and uh and and make sure you book that in. Uh and then there's the the it wasn't that they weren't comforts, were they? It's just remember to uh remember your always pack items.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Yeah, everyone's got that. I bet everyone's got that. What's yours? What would you take with you?

SPEAKER_01 41:24

Yeah, yeah. I was just thinking about your bra one. My daughter was um so she I noticed that she she's got an ad and uh you know those neck pillows for going on aircraft.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

She always stuffs hers full of her knickers and stuff like that, and it's it's just a cunning way of getting extra extra stuff through.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Everyone does their thing. Everyone does their thing.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

It's very, very good. But this is about getting the the very specific things in there. You and you had a great list, your purple pillowcase and your your your um tube of digestive, which is uh yeah, I I bet that that causes fun. I bet you can't buy those everywhere in the world, can you?

SPEAKER_00 42:01

No way! No way, Jose. That's why I bring them and they're like my stash, and and like you know, you know, yeah, I remember eating them at six o'clock one morning and the sun was just shining. I was on the an Amazon tributary and the sun was coming up. Now I was eating digestives. I cannot tell you how happy I was. I was like the happiest woman in the world.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

Yeah, well, funnily enough, we've just been in in Italy, and I was reading about um the uh a war between Garibaldi and Bourbon. I thought, wait a minute, did they call that the the war of the biscuits? Because if they didn't, they just missed a really big trick right there. No, yeah, yeah, they all come from somewhere. I can't remember where the Battle of the Digestive came in, but um, maybe we've yet to have that one. Uh right, and then your next uh yeah, your next habit is always have an adventure up your sleeve. Yes. Nice one, nice one. So yeah, what what is gonna come now? And and for you, what's the next one up your sleeve? You can't have a habit and then not have a have a content for the habit.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

Well, I'm trying to wangle Patagonia next year. I don't know how I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna I'm trying to I'm trying to wangle that one.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

So it's a beautiful spot.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

That's a big one.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Yeah, yeah, it's it it's a long way to go. And but but that will be with your cold buddies, I bet.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Oh yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure how I'm I I just because a long way, it's a long time, it's a lot of money, it's a you know, it's a big energy expense. I'm actually I kind of floated it in that I was like, girls, you know, like the kids have a year out. I was thinking, should we have a month out? We'll book it for next year, we tell everyone this is what we're gonna do, and it's like an adult year out, but it's an adult months out, and that's how we kind of do it.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

There are parts of the world worth doing that for, and I think you've you've pinned one right there. So uh yeah, I'd I'd completely endorse that, and uh yeah, we'll make you a map. Don't worry about that.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

Um so yeah, and then um make it make it a habit to have a habit, and then uh the post script to that is you want to avoid uh fractured fibia in Finland. So yeah, be be proactive and um yeah, and and make it a habit to have a habit. Well, you know, this is adventure habits, so you're bound to have something like that on there. So uh I'm not gonna run through all of them, but you've got a lot of habits. You've got a lot of habits. Um, and then the last one was a mental one, and I'm really pleased you came up with that because so many people have have them, and it can be as as simple as we met um Liz Dernstein, uh, and she's the fastest person ever to do the Appalachian Trail. So that's 2,700 miles of some some outstanding peaks uh running up um the the eastern side of the United States, and her habit is to just uh shout. You know, if you're if you're like your pink circle, I think for her, um I think her her um Instagram is actually Pink Feathers, so you guys should get to Oh and have a look. Um and uh yes, and her thing is is to just shout, and it doesn't matter what it is, it's normally a visceral sound, but it's you know, you're you're getting to the edge of your energy, and that shout will show you that you're actually nowhere near the edge of your energy. Wow, okay. Uh and it will push you on, and and yours is uh is almost like the visual manifestation of that kind of thing, you know, in a much more visualized form. Um, yeah, and I'll be throwing those hoops out in front of me the next time I put my running shoes on, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Honestly, it works. You you come back to me when you've had a you know had a wobbler, and you tell me you tell me what you think.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Well, Nikki, I I will I certainly will do, and Nikki, I hope we come back, meet each other many more times, and uh we'll help you out with that trip to um to Patagonia. And uh and uh yeah, and I hope that people will listen to this, will sign up the petition on the link, uh, and start following all of the all of the things that you want them to follow and um take a dip, however big that is. Your toes, your feet, the whole of you, or whatever it is at the Big Swim 2027.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

Yes, absolutely. Yep, um you're more than well. So just follow me on Instagram, that's how you'll find uh the updates. We're still trying to the dates either the 6th or the 13th of March 2027. But come along, join in, um, you'd be more than welcome.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Great, great. Okay, well, thanks very much uh to Nikki Chisholm. That's Pink Nikki on Instagram and all the other socials. And uh yeah, thanks for joining us. And uh we look forward to having a great summer of more dips in the water. Bye bye, Nikki.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

Take care, cheers, right.