How to Lead When Everything’s Constantly Changing: High-Performance Leadership Tools

Change is constant—and as a leader, you either navigate it or get buried by it. In Episode 5, Cathy and Ivan cut through the noise and show you exactly how to lead when everything around you is shifting.

This isn’t about faking calm or pretending you’ve got it all figured out. It’s about leading with clarity, confidence, and consistency, even when the ground under you keeps moving.

Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode:

• The shift that keeps you grounded when things feel like they’re spiraling.
• What to say to your team when uncertainty rattles them (and you’re about to unravel too).
• What helps high performers stay consistent instead of relying on “brilliance” every now and then.
• Our favorite go-to move for breaking out of firefighting mode and getting back to real leadership.

Actionable Takeaways:

1. Cut through chaos with a simple shift.
2. Ground yourself and your team with clear, direct language.
3. Focus on practice over brilliance to lead with high performance through change.

🔥 Check the show notes for our Bubble Wrap Cheat Sheet — your go-to tool for cutting out the fluff and leading with clarity in every conversation.

💥 Subscribe now and share this episode with other leaders and entrepreneurs who want practical tools for navigating constant change.

4 Takeaways:

1. Explore Wingspan’s Leader Team Coaching & Advising — the proven path for leaders ready to multiply performance across their teams. Schedule a Clarity Call with one of our expert Advisors right now!
2. Subscribe to the Wingspan Newsletter — get practical leadership insights, podcast episode deep-dives, client spotlights, and weekly tools delivered straight to your inbox.
3. Check out our YouTube Channel for unfiltered clips on behavioral performance and leadership actions that actually work.
4. 📲 Text us for leadership performance advice — real answers for real leaders.

💥 Subscribe to Leading Without The BS now and share this episode with other leaders who want to stop spinning their wheels and start leading with intentional energy. Someone invested in you — now pass it forward.

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Transcript

CathyMaday 0:00

We're wired for change. And like you said, in nearly every area of our lives, what people really actually resist is the loss of control. Welcome to Leading Without the BS. Unfiltered, unapologetic, unstoppable performance. Today we're talking about... How

IvanKonermann 0:16

to lead when things are constantly shifting. This will be episode five in our podcast.

CathyMaday 0:21

Constant change, control, losing control.

IvanKonermann 0:26

These never come up as issues. I don't know what you're talking about. This sounds like it's out of left field.

CathyMaday 0:30

Yeah, yeah. I mean, this might not be happening for you at all. You're working with many, many leaders, different organizations. How often are they talking about this in their sessions with you where they're feeling like it's constant change that they're working through?

IvanKonermann 0:49

Oh, man, every, probably every week. And what's funny is anymore, if there's a team who says something like, we haven't had any changes. Like if that comes up somewhere in the conversation, I'll tell them, well, buckle up cowboy. Cause it's probably coming pretty fast. So, so now they get to start to prepare themselves for those.

CathyMaday 1:10

That's actually fascinating because I don't recall hearing that at all with the leaders that I've been working with for the last several years is that things have not changed.

IvanKonermann 1:24

Yeah. And it's that comment actually came from a, I was working with a particular group who said, uh, they were in the middle of change. And I said, well, when was the last time you had change of this nature or this level? And then they stopped and they thought, and a couple people said, gosh, it has to have been eight or nine years. And I said, okay, well, if you were to go before that, what was the average time cycle between changes like this? And they would go three years. I said, oh, well, then you're heavily overdue. So now it's what we're getting back to the mean. So it's not often that that happens.

CathyMaday 1:55

Yeah, for sure. Well, especially with who we work with, you know, working with entrepreneurs business leaders who act like entrepreneurs who are scaling growing tackling more complex challenges this is this is the name of the game really

IvanKonermann 2:11

yeah and it's it's cool because it's either it can be any one thing or a combination of things in terms of the business itself may be changing hell we've got that at Winxman we've got two people who started on Monday we're adjusting we have this

CathyMaday 2:25

podcast and we're learning so much and It's all, yeah. See, I'm using the language. It's all so different. It's all so different. Well, hopefully we're getting our shit together, people, and our audio and what you're hearing is better than what it's been in our initial episodes.

IvanKonermann 2:47

Yes, this has been quite the learning curve, and things are changing here. We have some different setups. We will probably have different setups in the future as we get other people to come help. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So the business can be changing. It can be. the customers are changing. It can be the regulatory environment is changing. It can be our suppliers or what we're producing where is changing. There's this crazy thing apparently out there called like tariffs that seems to be a deal that those can be changing and it's something that when leaders stop and heck anyone stops and just thinks about their own life we're almost always experiencing some level of change either at a really small level or sometimes at a bigger level.

CathyMaday 3:28

Oh for sure. In fact A lot of leaders, when I first say this to them, they look at me funny and they're a bit skeptical, though I will tell them that people are not resistant to change. Say more. That's something we hear a lot. People are resistant to change. People are not resistant to change. We're biologically, physiologically, neurologically, we're wired for change. Like you said, in nearly every area of our lives. Why do people go to school? Why do you want your children to go to school? Why do you get married? All of these choices that we make in our lives, it's for change. It's ultimately for change. And so what people really actually resist is the loss of control. And so that's a fundamental perspective as we work with leaders in the wingspan system is this focus on control and perceived control, healthy control, and where we have it and where we don't.

IvanKonermann 4:39

I like that shift. While we're also wired for change, we're also biologically wired to create patterns for ourselves. And that's where, for anyone listening, and I know for you and I, it's certainly we come in the house, we put our keys in the same place, we hang up our check in the same place, we put this in the next time going where the heck are my keys and now we're not working to remember where did I leave my keys because that requires so much energy for our brain so we are pattern seeking pattern creating mammals and when we recognize that that is going to be shifting in some way it can feel like a loss of control

CathyMaday 5:19

and I like what you said earlier about where the change is coming from and so whether the change is quote unquote coming from something outside of you. Out in the market, sometimes, you know, other people are, quote unquote, in control of those decisions. And that's where the change is coming from. A lot of the leaders that we're working with are the ones in charge of change. And so they are the ones disrupting things and continuing to be the catalyst for change. And even then, whether you're the one in charge of the change, and it's coming from you, or it's coming, it's the catalyst is outside of you, there's challenges that come along with it. And often, at least at the pace of the leaders we work with, it gets overwhelming.

IvanKonermann 6:12

Yeah. And what you said just reminded me of this concept of we're all consistently choosing. We can choose to make this change. We can choose to make some other changes. We can choose to not change. We're still choosing. And then that's going to have costs and impacts for us in the business and our team members on down the line

CathyMaday 6:33

yeah

IvanKonermann 6:33

for sure so in some of your conversations with leaders where they're not having a great response to change what are some things that come up

CathyMaday 6:43

the common one that's happening whether it's the the leader directly who's speaking with me or they're speaking about their team is what are those it's the the tendency to jump straight straight to absolutes everything is changing uh nothing is staying the same you know the always no one never uh those absolutes uh come up and and because that's how it feels so um that that comes up though what happens is when when a leader so let's say um i'm thinking i'm thinking of a situation the last couple weeks um someone specifically let's say that you know Sam is saying that they're encountering, yet again, a restructuring, a reorganization. And he's feeling overwhelmed, frustrated. And so when he has the habit of using that language, that it's everything and always and no one and never, he's accidentally exacerbating the feelings of overwhelm and stress. simply by dropping down into the habit of going to those absolute phrases.

IvanKonermann 8:05

Yeah, and what we're talking about, it sounds like, is where that overlap is between the stress zone and autopilot where people get, they can feel like they're triggered or they're really high intensity and then they pop down to this autopilot language of extreme. So for anyone listening or watching this, that can be a great flag for yourself as if you're talking to a team member and they're saying always or never or everyone or no one. Those kinds of pieces you just hit on can be an indicator that this person may not be operating in the performance zone. They might be operating from stress or autopilot or even the overlap.

CathyMaday 8:39

Yeah, highly likely operating from stress. Because as a refresher, even though we've covered this in other episodes, in any moment, depending on where you as a human are at, if you are currently perceiving the challenge to far outweigh your perceived abilities you're gonna go into your stress zone. And so that's when we are reacting instead of thoughtfully responding. It's counterproductive in terms of our thinking, our communication and behaviors. Now, on the flip side of that, anytime that we're in a situation where, or in a moment where we're perceiving our ability to be very, very high and the challenge to be little to nothing, we're gonna be in autopilot And that's what Ivan was just describing. where we're highly stressed, yet we fall back into those old habits.

IvanKonermann 10:03

Yeah, the way I'll describe that to a lot of leaders I work with is, I'll say it's like a circuit breaker in your brain. And the scenario I'll describe is, think about a situation where you're super pissed off or frustrated or you have this really high intensity and you're just on fire about it. And then 30 seconds later, you're like, fuck it, whatever. I don't, whatever, we'll figure it out. And you just, and I say, if you go from that 12, to that zero or one or minus one level of intensity. I said, when it happens that fast, that's not because you've logically solved it in your brain. It's because your brain has gone, oh my gosh, if I don't shut this down, like I'm going to pop. And so it's a way to just bring it down very quickly without it being really effective though. And then to your point, that's when it goes into the autopilot patterns and behaviors that people can bring to the table.

CathyMaday 10:52

Yeah. Yeah. The, that's by the way, that's me. I, That'll typically be in a couple of different ways. So sometimes I can be up in my stress zone, really, really stressed out. Also, I'm more internal with all that energy and intensity. I'm more internal. You're more external when you're in your stress zone. So internally, I'll have this mounting, and then it starts to bubble over because I'm so stressed out. And then my body will almost want to just fall asleep. Wow. It's weird because I can be so stressed out about something and I just want to lay down and take a nap.

IvanKonermann 11:37

Wow. See, I am so far the opposite that when I get that stress, this is where I run into it if I think of something in the middle of the night and I'm going, oh my gosh, I've got this thing I want to do or this isn't done or so and so is waiting on such and such. And there's times where I'm like, I'm just going to get up and go do this right now so that I can start to execute and knock it out and reduce that intensity. So it's, it's always, it's interesting how different people have such different responses.

CathyMaday 12:05

Well, and it, and it depends. I mean, I'm that as well. So, um, two of the, of the mornings this past week, I was up, uh, between two 30 and 3 AM and I ended up just getting up because my mind was going, going, going. So though it, yeah, it's, it's different though. I guess I'm screwed up in all of those ways, uh, because I will also get, I will also get really frustrated again I can be internal with it so I can be get really angry I've got a long fuse then when I finally get angry I'll absolutely flip over to the pocket and just check out walk away you know

IvanKonermann 12:48

yeah it's interesting that you you have that long fuse as things are changing or whatever else it is whatever the situation is and then you go hi I have more of a pattern of going high faster and And coming in hot or being really directive or getting loud, definitely impatient when I've got that, my gosh, we've got this new situation to work through. Let's get in and figure this out. And that's too much intensity in those situations to oftentimes support a, not just me, also a team in getting something done.

CathyMaday 13:22

Oh, for sure. For sure. Though, that's what's really powerful when we are working with teams in the early stages when we're working with leaders and their teams, and we do the performance mapping exercise, it's so powerful when, first and foremost, each individual is identifying when they go up in the stress zone, how often they're there, what are the triggers for them to go into their stress zone, when are they in autopilot, and then they share that with their other team members. Just like you were saying, if someone isn't going through that exercise, listeners the way for you to start to identify where your team members are at including yourself is paying attention to their language and that is listening for those absolutes literally one of the team members that I worked with years ago he was director in finance he would literally say Rome is burning and I would tell him I'm gonna give him a different name I would tell him George what first of all when you say that you sound so out of control like you sound dramatic you sound out of control and by the way there might be really good reasons that you know like the facts behind your feelings sure because you're not saying the facts and you're jumping to literally saying Rome is burning can't you see Rome is burning then his his fellow business leaders would just discount and they came to, they started to ignore what he was saying because he was so dramatic in that language. And that's one of the costs that happens when leaders are feeling out of control.

IvanKonermann 15:18

Or their team members. Or their team members. Yeah.

CathyMaday 15:21

I mean them or their other leaders, their team members. Gotcha, gotcha. And so when any one of us are feeling... the constant change is overwhelming, it's stressful, and you're feeling out of control, you're going to lose some of the people around you. So your effectiveness in your influence and certainly how you're supporting a team, whether that's a cross-functional team or direct reports, doesn't matter. Your effectiveness drops dramatically.

IvanKonermann 15:53

As you say that, what comes to my brain, in addition to how true that is, is that the other end of the spectrum can be just as problematic, where there is change, team members come to the leader and say, oh my gosh, we've got these changes, I'm not so sure, and the leader's like, everything's fine, no big deal, and for that team member, it can feel like, dude, you're not living my reality, or you don't see it, or even worse, sometimes they may say, man, you don't care.

CathyMaday 16:26

Yes, common, a common problem where those leaders so we work with lots of just like you leaders with military background leaders who have grown up working in high pressure situations you know high stakes and so one of the strengths that y'all develop are be staying cool under pressure and it is a strength until you've developed it as a habit and then exactly what what you're talking about is quite common for a lot of those leaders. And then, of course, what's happening within their teams is they are overly composed. And how many times have leaders been surprised? Because being calm under pressure, that's how you're a good leader. No, no. And so when you tell people, when you help them recognize you're actually overly composed and it's counterproductive, what are some of their responses?

IvanKonermann 17:28

What? What the hell are you talking about? This is a great thing that I'm doing. They're so surprised. Or they'll say, well, I've been told to make sure that, and I'm going to paraphrase, I've been told to make sure that I'm professional or I'm appropriate.

CathyMaday 17:44

Yes.

IvanKonermann 17:45

And it's like, whew, buddy, what a couple of broad, almost meaningless labels.

CathyMaday 17:51

Yeah, well, it's, again, it goes back to a lot of that bullshit training that leaders and managers have had for years. years like the staying calm under pressure or even worse than that is staying positive under under pressure or you know when the shit's hitting the fan staying positive and

IvanKonermann 18:15

pretending like it's not shit that's flying all over the room

CathyMaday 18:19

yeah or pretending room is not burning and the just the how damaging I mean, that is unknowingly in so many different ways within the team as well as the credibility of that leader

IvanKonermann 18:37

for sure. Yeah, so we've hit on these ends of the spectrum of people are overly, are over intensity, they're over describing the situation, being extreme and dramatic with their language. You've hit the other end of they're under connecting or they're failing to really describe the situation or what it is or how impactful it can be

CathyMaday 19:01

well yes and then the third one so they're under so they're again overly composed they're super calm and then the people around them are like does he not freaking get it like is he is he paying attention yeah to what is actually happening and then there's the the third one which again a lot of managers and leaders do this because they were trained to do this and that's to be appropriate or put the positive spin on it and you know leaders just smell when something's off and yet again good intentions for a lot of those a lot of those individuals except absolutely working against them it's costing them big time

IvanKonermann 19:46

yeah it's right as you said that I had a flashback to when I was an executive officer in a line infantry company back when I was in the army and I remember the company commander would come to my office and he would go well Ivan you're not going to like this shit and I was just okay sir I'm seated what you got and so he wouldn't spin it he wouldn't pretend like it wasn't a messy crappy situation he would just shoot straight and I had so much respect for him that he wouldn't pretend or put this BS spin on it he was a really honest guy and I just had that flash When you said that, I was like, man, that wasn't exactly the kind of honesty and the kind of let's connect with the real situation that helped me go, okay, this guy gets it. He's not out in left field. He frigging gets it.

CathyMaday 20:41

Yeah. And for sure. And that, of course, is some of the support that we offer to leaders and we're offering to you here is even while you're feeling that way, your emotions, first of all, of all have critical information and so if you're angry if you're frustrated stop covering it up stop ignoring it also if you've got the habits of the go to extremes okay that's a whole different issue that you'll want to put some attention on and stop putting the smiley face sticker and the rainbows and unicorns on it and instead really start to honor the fact that you're angry or you're frustrated and Because your frustration has that information, critical information. And so you can learn how to speak more for your frustration versus from your frustration. So again, speaking, the two most common, we talked about the two most common tendencies when people are speaking from their frustration is it's either that loud, colorful extreme up in the stress zone, or like me, I'm a when I'm frustrated, the way I speak from my frustration is I don't speak at all.

IvanKonermann 22:02

Yeah. You shut down.

CathyMaday 22:03

Yeah. Yeah. I'm just quiet. I'm thinking things. I'm not saying them. Sometimes two most common. And both of those are highly problematic. They're just different problems. And so learning how to speak for your frustration, that's, what's going to be just like this example, um, with the, who did you say this

IvanKonermann 22:30

was? Company commander.

CathyMaday 22:31

Company commander. Yeah. Is, yeah, being real. Even being willing to say, Sam, part of me is really frustrated. Or, hey, with all this change that we're going through, I can imagine you're frustrated because I'm frustrated. There are ways that we can say that, you know, own that and share that and be real from a place of self-leadership. Right? rather than from a place of victim, villain, or martyr.

IvanKonermann 23:01

Yeah. And what's great for folks listening is these kinds of situations happen because the teams that we're normally working with are going through mergers and acquisitions. They may be going through divestitures. They may be going through rapid growth. They may be going through a particularly difficult or challenging target to meet in the business. And those kinds of things are prime spots where people can feel this, ooh, things are shifting.

CathyMaday 23:27

Well, for sure. Yeah. Covering up. If you're frustrated, angry, annoyed, don't ignore it. Don't cover it up. Start to learn how to get that information and how to start speaking for that information instead of from it.

IvanKonermann 24:09

Yeah. Good. Let's go into some questions as we're coming into the homestretch on this one around if a team member comes to a leader and is expressing or perhaps like you, perhaps not expressing and the leader is picking up on it though. There's something there. What are some questions that leaders can utilize with themselves or with others?

CathyMaday 24:32

What I had in my mind is what not to ask. Like, what the hell's wrong with you? Or stop freaking out

IvanKonermann 24:40

as they freak out.

CathyMaday 24:41

Yeah. Definitely a go-to move is, well, what actually is not changing? So if you've got a team member who's coming to you and is using those absolutes, everything's changing. Nothing is going to be the same or just that dramatic language and giving you serious indicators that they're feeling out of control. When you ask the question, well, what's not changing? And literally encourage that person to make some notes in that moment as their brain is processing that question. What you're doing is helping them to remember they've got far more ability and they're not accidentally amplifying the stress with those absolutes

IvanKonermann 25:36

what's awesome in what you just said is you said their brain is processing which by definition means they're not in stress and they're not in autopilot they're back in that performance zone where and sometimes I'll even add a little or encourage leaders to add a little preface of well hold on let's break this down what's actually not changed so that way that person knows oh we're going to break this down they can help them start to either come down out of stress or come up out of autopilot and then like you said now their brain is really working they're they're being more thoughtful about this to go oh crap that's a really good question

CathyMaday 26:11

that well the other piece that's really effective in uh ivan what you're modeling is the level of intensity with that with that uh statement or that comment before the question again if if you're coming to me and you're using the absolutes and the dramatics and I'm very calm and I interact with you this way you don't get it yeah for those of you so that you learn you accidentally create this polarity so yes and it's going to seem like I'm not freaking listening I don't get it my head is in the clouds or somewhere else and so that's the absolute opposite of what's effective so it's the level of intensity like oh okay all right uh all right let let's break this down it's just having a little um enthusiasm a little energy around it and then asking the question and you're you're spot on it is so it's awesome the way that it helps the other person shift their brain activity from the the stress zone like the amygdala back into their prefrontal cortex.

IvanKonermann 27:32

So that what isn't changing is a great question. What I like to do also is ask the person, hey, so if you're looking at this, what percentage of things are going to be the same? So now they've identified, well, this is the same and this is the same, and they're probably going to start to realize there's a lot more that falls into that category. I like to throw a numerical question mark. Hey, so from a one to 100%, how much is not changing so that they can say oh actually 90% of things are not changing okay great so now we can focus on this 10% yeah

CathyMaday 28:11

and now they've shifted into their performance zone and they remember oh I'm in charge more than I realize I'm in control my perceived ability is higher and the perceived challenge has come down and so now we can rock and roll

IvanKonermann 28:26

awesome so So we can start to land this plane. We've been on a bunch of things. One is helping people simply be aware of this dynamic of leaders or individuals can feel like things are changing and what to key in on, the kinds of language to pay attention to, the kind of indicators that may be there that show that people are in the stress zone or in autopilot.

CathyMaday 28:53

Well, and some questions that you can ask. The other piece is to keep in mind that this notion, people are resistant to change. They're not. They're resistant to losing control. And so if you keep that in mind and you interact with them, using some of the things that we covered, you're off to the races.

IvanKonermann 29:15

Yeah. We've also hit on some of the costs. So now people are aware of, ooh, this is what can happen if I'm not having a healthy discussion and an honest discussion too, how critical that is. to addressing this in a head-on uh really no no bs manner wait that reminds me of a podcast so so everyone's got a great set of tools coming out of this that they can immediately begin to apply and use in their in their everyday performance

CathyMaday 29:44

yeah put it to work and you're leading without the bs

IvanKonermann 29:48

yeah and as we're wrapping be sure to thank whoever shared this with you

CathyMaday 29:52

yeah

IvanKonermann 29:52

someone shared this with you so encourage you to send them a note hey this is this is great i like this. Also, share it with somebody whose success you're invested in, somebody who you want to see succeed. Say, hey, I'm getting some great takeaways from this. I wanted to share this with you. It's as simple as it can be. It feels so good when someone just takes a minute to share something. So with that, Leading Without the BS, podcast number five.

CathyMaday 30:14

We'll see you next time.

IvanKonermann 30:16

See ya.