Stop Helping by Doing: How Leaders Become Multipliers

High-Performance Leaders often jump in to “help” by doing the work themselves. Sounds noble, right? Except it hijacks your team, erodes trust, and turns you into the bottleneck. In this episode, Cathy and Ivan unpack the autopilot habit of “helping by doing,” why it feels so natural (spoiler: dopamine hits), and how to shift into shaping, equipping, and multiplying your team’s performance.

You’ll learn:
 • Why “I’ll just take care of that” kills leadership credibility
 • How hijacking by doing undermines trust and growth
 • Practical phrases and behaviors to stop solving and start shaping

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Transcript

Cathy Maday 0:00

A lot of us reduce our stress or anxiety by doing. It's helped us and it continues to help us in so many ways until we start to identify the situations where it's really costing us and costing the team. Welcome to Leading Without the BS. I'm Kathy.

Ivan Konermann 0:16

Hey, I'm Ivan Conerman. We are glad to have you here. And as we get started with Leading Without the BS podcast number six, we encourage you to send a note and thank somebody who shared this with you. Or if you didn't get this from somebody, you can send it to them. Think about somebody whose success you're invested in and make a point to send them something. Send them this podcast and say, here you go. Give this a listen.

Cathy Maday 0:37

Yeah, I love hearing from leaders that I'm actively working with. They've been in coaching for a while and they're still finding so much value in the podcast. So I was really excited to hear that. Today, we are going to talk about an autopilot behavior where it actually becomes a leadership liability for you. And that is helping by doing.

Ivan Konermann 0:59

super common and it makes a ton of sense because we've all we've all been there we've all there's nobody I know who hasn't done this where we're used to leading we're used to doing things and stepping in and getting it done and then we keep doing that when we're in a leadership position only that's not as helpful

Cathy Maday 1:19

absolutely every time you're jumping in to to solve a problem or jumping in and helping by doing you're not helping you're hijacking and so we're We're going to walk through that today, what it looks like for a lot of us, and then, of course, offering something you can do about it.

Ivan Konermann 1:38

Yeah. And I'll stump in with my own confession here right out of the gate is that the hijacking piece of it is really good because that's how it affects other team members. It's also like I was hijacking myself. So I distinctly remember... last job I had I had a small sales team that I was that reported to me and I remember making a point of oh I want to make sure I'm here for my team I want to make sure I'm supporting them and I'm stepping in to help them and I remember one day in particular just man just going back and forth great guns with seemed like every team member I had and some other folks as well and I distinctly have this recollection of looking at the clock seeing it was 430 and going holy shit I'm about to start my work day for my stuff now. And it's 4.30. And I was so pissed at myself. I was so frustrated with myself because I was the one who was kicking my own ass by doing other people's work and then not prioritizing my own to get done. And highly likely that wasn't the first time. Oh, geez. No, absolutely not. And A lot of people are traditionally not willing to challenge me. I also did a really bad job of making it safe and telling them, hey, step in and challenge me if I'm getting into your lane. And so no one said anything to me. They're like, well, this is how he wants to do this. This is how we're going to go along. So man, I just, I created a hell of a mess for myself. And then it was a good bit of work to unwind all that.

Cathy Maday 3:13

Oh, for sure. I have been quite open with everyone in our Wingspan community of about my patterns around martyr behaviors and all of that old, the old BS around I really like to feel needed and I really like to feel important. And so I, when I was thinking about this and working on the script, I realized, I mean, I had so many examples flash before my eyes of where I am jumping in and helping by doing, and then of course, hijacking. In fact, as I was going through scripts, I did warn Lauren that she was gonna be part of the episode today because as I was going through scripts, Lauren, our director of marketing and media, still learning the Wingspan system, still learning our voice, she's doing unbelievable work on so many angles and as I was reading the scripts she's you know she's not quite there in capturing staying in integrity with the behavioral performance system or our you know she's still learning our voice and so I have jumped in to help by doing and so not last week I worked on it this morning at 5 a.m. working on it we were both working on it and so I was laughing and also like wincing a little bit because just today I'm doing this and it's instead of doing we'll talk about some solutions I will be kicking myself in my own butt to put into practice what we talk about today

Ivan Konermann 4:55

there's your homework so for everybody listening the there's some phrases you can certainly listen for you'll hear yourself and other people start to say certain Certain things that are fantastic indicators that you're falling into this trap of hijacking by doing. One of them is you just say, oh, I'll take care of that. And that is super common. That was my biggest go-to was, oh, you're new or, oh, you've got a lot on the plate. I'll take care of that one.

Cathy Maday 5:23

Well, that's just it. I mean, how do we think this is helping? Well, I'll tell you that what's going through my mind is that... I see all the work Lauren's doing. And so in my mind, the helping by doing, it seemed to be, you know, I told myself, I rationalized, and I told myself it was helping because, you know, she's max capacity. The problem is, of course, I'm not solving the actual problem, which is a capacity problem.

Ivan Konermann 5:54

Yeah, yeah. So you're doing the second thing, which is you're just stepping in and fixing it, maybe without telling them what's

Cathy Maday 6:03

happening.

Ivan Konermann 6:04

actually going on or how you're not equipping them with information that they can turn around and do their part differently.

Cathy Maday 6:11

Yeah, so instead of actually setting up a work session to continue to hand over, continue to share with Lauren what are these pieces that I want to make sure she's removing or building in, I'm just stepping in and doing it.

Ivan Konermann 6:31

And that's one of the other pieces is people will say, oh, I'll just clean up the mess before someone else even sees it. So that's connected to what you just described. The other thing that I've found that I have a habit of doing is, especially if I feel like it's a tight timeline or it's a really big deal and in my brain I'm going... I'm not comfortable with the level of risk to hand this off to this person because of their skillset with this today. So I'm just going to do the whole thing. And then the problem is I don't always circle back or don't always come back to them later on and say, hey, let me explain to you how I chose to do this or some of the things that you can learn so that next time you can grab this and run with it.

Cathy Maday 7:13

Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm daily or weekly. I'm working through that battle because as we've also talked about, about in previous episodes I've done an amazing job of becoming the bottleneck

Ivan Konermann 7:27

you have

Cathy Maday 7:27

and so it's a double whammy because now the helping by doing when we've got team members who are they're working hard and working smart and yet we have we're going a million miles an hour with all of our initiatives and so

Ivan Konermann 7:43

so if these things are sounding familiar to folks listening or watching just know that hey you're not alone this is exceptionally common we still realize where we're doing this and there's plenty of... We'll talk later on about some things everyone can do to start to change this pattern and start to do something different.

Cathy Maday 8:00

Yeah, for sure. Well, something to keep in mind too are those things that we're telling ourselves when we're jumping in to help. For example, hey, I'm a hard worker just like you.

Ivan Konermann 8:11

Yeah.

Cathy Maday 8:12

I come from the trenches. I've been in the trenches. I'm in the trenches with you. There's... Sound intent, it's how we're expressing that or demonstrating it that is a big part of the problem.

Ivan Konermann 8:28

Yeah, that was and is one of my biggest mindset problems is I keep thinking, oh, I've got to demonstrate. I've got to lead from the front. Just like I did in the military, I'm not going to ask team members to do anything that I'm not going to be willing to do. So if I'm asking them to do something that's hard or dangerous or shitty, I better be willing to step in and show that myself. Only that's not my response. responsibility now is to do those things. My responsibility is to focus on other parts of the business so that other people can do their thing.

Cathy Maday 8:58

Yeah. I can imagine a lot of the leaders who are listening, just like the leaders we work with every day, they have sound intent in building that camaraderie and building the team. It's just when we do it this way, then this is where it becomes a leadership liability.

Unknown 9:18

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Cathy Maday 9:18

So the other thing, too, is as we look at, you know, why in the world are we doing this? There's actually a good bit of science behind it. And so, for example, every time there's that problem where we've got the answer or sometimes, too, a lot of me and other leaders that I work with, like, really, they love solving problems. It's how they've been successful. And so, for example, And so neurologically, chemically, we get that dopamine hit of, yep, I stepped in, look at me, this was amazing, I helped someone. Again, sound intent at the core of it, it's just all these other things that are happening. So every time that we stop resisting that default, chemically, we're getting a little dopamine reward in our system.

Ivan Konermann 10:17

Yeah, and on top of that is the oxytocin hit from being needed, being admired, building that connection with folks where they say, oh my gosh, it was so awesome that you helped me with that. And that's how we create trust and connectivity with other people. So we keep doing these things for a damn good reason because our brain keeps sending us chemical hits that reinforce this behavior.

Cathy Maday 10:41

For sure. There's also things that we are as human beings that we're aiming to avoid so that Yeah, absolutely. to identify the situations where it's really costing us and costing the team.

Ivan Konermann 11:24

Yeah, that's a really good point. And these pieces all come together also with this identity or little ego, how do I see myself? And when we see ourselves as the fixer, when we see ourselves as the doer, then this just reinforces it. And it builds off of... what you said earlier, early in our careers, we are promoted. We are recognized. We get advancements or great pay raises because we're in there rolling up our sleeves, knocking it out, getting it done, staying late, doing our part, and then asking for more. And our bosses back then, our leaders back then would go, well, look at you. You're just a little go-getter. I'll give you some more stuff to do. And then that's how we build this cred and this street rep of we're We're sled pullers. We get it done. And it's so hard to begin to separate from that history of how we've seen ourselves.

Cathy Maday 12:23

Yeah. When there are things to do, who do you give them to on the team?

Ivan Konermann 12:30

Absolutely. The person who can kick butt and get it done.

Cathy Maday 12:32

Exactly. The getting shit done. When we're jumping into and being the hero, that hero-helper relationship, that I'm going to call it emotional intimacy, it gets confused for effectiveness. And so this is where it's not a solo person in an autopilot. It's a dual. Yeah, it's two people tag teaming in this autopilot dance together. And a lot of the leaders I work with have longstanding relationships with their team members. They've worked with their team members for a long time. And so they have these longstanding autopilots patterns where they are tag teaming on this whole effect with each other

Ivan Konermann 13:21

and what that's more likely to do also is mean that when those newer team members come in because they've had this long-standing way of doing things this is how I work with team member A and B and C well then when team member D comes along they're unlikely to do something different they're probably going to do the same thing with the new team member yes that they've done with their other team members even if they don't necessarily realize the cost it's creating

Cathy Maday 13:43

yes

Ivan Konermann 13:43

so let's jump How come this matters?

Cathy Maday 13:49

Where do we start? On so many levels. Yes.

Ivan Konermann 13:54

Yeah. So the first one is that when you're doing this, it's also what you're not doing. So you're not actually leading. You're not meeting your requirements as the manager, as the project manager, as whatever else. And that means that key things aren't getting done.

Unknown 14:12

Right.

Cathy Maday 14:13

there's there's something deeper going on also is that so many leaders are they have that their whole identity wrapped up into the i'm the i'm the one that in fact i i'm hearing certain uh like even natalie says this i'm hearing certain leaders in my mind who they say i get shit done

Ivan Konermann 14:35

and

Cathy Maday 14:37

for a long time that is the expectation that that is your responsibility as you continue to advance though in your scope of impact you're scaling your business you're getting more accomplished with and through more people that's not that's not your responsibility getting shit done and I'm in this space also I'm not taking enough time to put on my CEO hat and do some of those responsibilities that only I can do because I'm down in this old identity of I'm in it with my team I'll take out the garbage I'm not because I also for me there is this that I want to be part of my identity is I'm not better than I don't ever want to send the message that I'm better than the problem is I swing my pendulum way too far over and so instead of being part of the team showing that I am part of the team in those healthy productive ways I'm doing it in some of these old autopilot ways that are costing us.

Ivan Konermann 15:47

Which brings up a really good point that as people begin to shift out of this, I'm the fixer, I'm the doer, it feels really freaking weird. It feels so unnatural and unnormal and I work with a number of leaders who are on this 12-step journey of how in the hell do I stop doing this thing and they say how weird it feels and I continue to remind them of, yeah, it feels weird because you're not used to doing this. It's not that it's bad. It's just different. And that getting into that headspace of different isn't bad. It's just something new. It's something I'm not used to doing is okay. So stay at it, Tiger. You've got some more miles to go until this is more practiced for you.

Cathy Maday 16:34

Yeah. In fact, not only is it okay... It's when you're getting that itch, restrain yourself and ride it out because it's not just okay. It's actually expected that you're not doing this. And this is another place where leaders can help themselves by exercising the two-word check-in.

Ivan Konermann 17:00

And so we've talked about that before where you're stopping, checking in with yourself physically, mentally, and emotionally.

Cathy Maday 17:06

What are those sensations? What the two words that best convey or describe your current performance state that helps you to know like you're saying anytime that we're any one of us is moving ourselves out of so when you're moving yourself out of autopilot up into the performance zone it will feel unfamiliar you said awkward sometimes unnatural yeah sometimes uncomfortable not not necessarily though those are really fantastic indicators of progress.

Ivan Konermann 17:42

Yeah, that's a good point.

Cathy Maday 17:44

Those feelings are not something to avoid. They're actually something to go towards and to lean into.

Ivan Konermann 17:49

Yeah, and I like to combine that with the concept for some leaders of, or the concept for leaders, for some folks it's new, that the more senior someone is, the less they're doing the work and the more they're getting the work done through other people. So you're now not responsible to be turning the wrenches or welding or whatever it is. It's your job, though, to ensure that other people are making sure that it's getting done. And so you have this multiplier effect when you work through your direct reports to get the thing done. And that's where, again, it's the shift of, wait, I'm not doing it. Exactly, you're not doing it. It's no longer your job. Now your job is to help make sure others are getting it done to standard, on time, and meeting these other criteria that are in place.

Cathy Maday 18:36

I love that. It's such a powerful... reminder to say, I'm not the doer,

Ivan Konermann 18:41

I'm

Cathy Maday 18:42

the multiplier. I'm not the doer, I'm the multiplier. Love that. Go ahead.

Ivan Konermann 18:51

I was going to say, we've both got clients we've worked with who have run through this. Besides you and my examples, who's someone that you're thinking of who's running through this right now?

Cathy Maday 19:05

Oh, my. We shall make up names. Of course. Because I am... Even my crew at Siemens. So working, I'm going to say that a lot of men in general are acts of service. So any of you who, I don't even know how old that book is, the five love languages. So your five love languages are quality time, physical touch, gifts, acts of service, and something else. I forget. Though the acts of service, you're an acts of service.

Ivan Konermann 19:43

Yeah,

Cathy Maday 19:43

totally. Yeah, totally. And so there's this combo happening where lots, I'm not right now recalling any leader that doesn't have this

Ivan Konermann 19:58

habit.

Cathy Maday 19:59

And so there's this combo happening. You have the acts of service as your primary language to show people that you care. So even showing your team members that you care, there's the 10 this default to the acts of service is doing things for them. And so that combo's going on. The other high performer behaviors that become how you really start to cap yourself is, which we've talked about, are the taking the initiative.

Ivan Konermann 20:36

Yeah.

Cathy Maday 20:36

And jumping in to be that fixer and that problem solver. I mean, for those of you listening, how many times has your significant other told you please don't solve my problem I just want to talk to you about it I just said this to you last night at dinner

Ivan Konermann 20:52

you may have I was

Cathy Maday 20:54

expressing some frustration around something I don't even remember at work I'm sure it was about work and Ivan was jumping in and not only fixing it he was doing a little preaching to me and I was like

Ivan Konermann 21:08

it's a great seasoning on top of fixing what are you talking about that's a wonderful one two combo

Cathy Maday 21:13

and so it's It's so common. I mean, I can, I can give lots of examples where managers are, let's say one of their team members is a supervisor. Again, I don't, I'm going to maintain confidentiality. So when there are escalation calls, instead of the supervisor stepping in on those escalation calls and actually, you know, taking the lead, facilitating, the manager is stuck in and doing it for them. So if, say, out in the field, an area GM, general manager, is voicing some frustration or asking questions, the manager is stepping in to answer those questions instead of allowing the supervisor to do his or her part in those situations.

Ivan Konermann 22:06

Yeah, that sounds really close to what I've got with a leader I'm working with. We'll call him Joe. And Joe is responsible for a huge program. He's got direct reports and then other team members who are attached to support. And he's super experienced. This is also where there's this It can feel like a mental trap of, ooh, I know how to solve this kind of complicated situation. And he does. He's incredibly experienced. And so he wants to step in and do this. And I keep saying to him, well, how much longer are you going to do that for? When do you finally hand

Cathy Maday 22:43

this off? Say that question again.

Ivan Konermann 22:45

How much longer are you going to do this for?

Cathy Maday 22:47

Oh, that's brilliant.

Ivan Konermann 22:49

Thank you. We'll talk about a raise later.

Cathy Maday 22:52

That's such a good question. Yeah. How did he respond to that?

Ivan Konermann 22:58

He stopped and I could tell he was a little surprised. And I said, yeah, dude, you're doing their job. How much longer are you going to do their job for and continue to pay them to do this? And he was like, oh, well, I never thought of it quite like that. And I was like, well, that's exactly what's happening. And that's part of where he's like, well, I understand the dynamics or I understand piece A and B and C and those are essential to solving this problem. I said, I totally... can understand that the first time, especially if it's time sensitive. So this is the first tool I would offer to folks is as you're looking at a situation, if you're the leader and you want to step in, some questions to ask yourself are how important is it for me to solve this right now? Because if you've got time, you may space that out.

Cathy Maday 23:47

And emphasizing how important is it for me to fix this right now. That's the other... Because

Ivan Konermann 23:56

that's where when people are highly experienced or the situation's feeling really complex or involved, they'll recognize, man, I've got this special sauce I bring to the table, which they absolutely do. It's just how do they transfer that knowledge, that understanding, that decision-making to somebody else. And so one of the things that I've encouraged Joe to do is to say, hey, if it's actually time-sensitive, you may step in and do some directing. What's key, though, is you've come back to that person two days later or whenever there's some some breathing space and say hey come here let me ben let me step you through how i thought about that let me equip you so that next time you're going to take first stab at that and then i'll support you in a little way with doing some tweaking or tuning to how you decide to approach this situation

Cathy Maday 24:47

yeah love love that the the other thing that occurred to me as you were sharing that story when you asked that question how long are you going to keep doing this when it doesn't belong to you that's one of the things leaders really value when they're working with us because not many coaches are trained to see what's really happening behaviorally some of those that see it are not equipped or willing to say it yeah and so that's i mean that we're coming up on um our fall cohort for wingspan performance academy and i continue to hear from leaders who went through the course you know two three years ago um and they've even refreshed themselves how valuable it is first for for them as they're going through the videos and the digital course. Also, though, on the live coaching calls, how we're helping them to identify those patterns and habits that they have without judgment.

Ivan Konermann 25:56

Oh, totally.

Cathy Maday 25:57

And then giving them, okay, here's what to do instead. Giving them a whole system of tools and frameworks on what to do instead so they can keep advancing, keep kicking ass, keep scaling, growing their business. So I get all excited about it. Because the helping by doing isn't just a habit. It's an addiction. And when we keep giving in to that addiction, we're hijacking trust. We're hijacking some things in the relationship. Confidence. We're hijacking the development that can happen for that other team member who isn't as experienced as you are.

Ivan Konermann 26:41

Let's pull that thread a little bit further just for a minute I know we're going to be wrapping this up in the next couple minutes that hijacking trust though can come across because you can be sending a message to somebody else of you're not competent so I'm going to do

Cathy Maday 26:54

this well you and I were talking about this because you were talking this morning at 5.15am you were saying sharing with me about when you were on the receiving end of a manager doing this

Ivan Konermann 27:08

yeah and it definitely I was and this is my and autopilot defaults, I get pissy because I'm like, dude, what the hell? If you don't trust me to do this job, how come you've got me in this job? That's a whole other conversation. So how come you're stepping into my lane? So I will push back or I will go to them and have a conversation much more quickly. Sometimes

Cathy Maday 27:32

from the stress zone.

Ivan Konermann 27:33

Sometimes either from the stress zone or close to it, maybe with a little more pepper on that conversation that is helpful for me. Whereas a lot of other folks, though, aren't comfortable with those. kinds of exchanges so they won't say anything and then they'll either just fume or eventually they'll go well screw it if they don't trust me to do this I'm going to go to some company where they do

Cathy Maday 27:52

that is the awareness for everyone that is critical is while your intent to help is sound your autopilot habit of helping by doing is costing in so many different ways including the relationship with your team member you're actually having the exact opposite effect and impact as you're aiming for and so so let's talk about um old habits and then what to practice instead

Ivan Konermann 28:24

yeah yeah

Cathy Maday 28:25

so old habit like let me take this one here's another sneaky one

Ivan Konermann 28:29

let's do a jeopardy style you throw it out and i'll hit the table and then i'll give you an alternate answer

Cathy Maday 28:34

careful

Ivan Konermann 28:35

maybe i won't hit the table

Cathy Maday 28:36

um here's a sneaky one though i'm gonna edit this instead of a hey let me take this one it's a hey let me take this one this time

Ivan Konermann 28:45

ah

Cathy Maday 28:45

that's an old habit

Ivan Konermann 28:46

yeah yeah and so uh instead i would i would say hey tell me how you're gonna handle this

Cathy Maday 28:55

yeah nice instead of old habit solving stepping in solving the problem

Ivan Konermann 29:01

yeah um who on the team are you talking to to

Cathy Maday 29:04

get some ideas that's a much better yes much better approach um instead of stepping in and rescuing the team what's the new leader behavior practice for them to put into play

Ivan Konermann 29:17

remind them of how capable they are remind them of how they make solid decisions and then challenge them to step in even if it's uncomfortable and work through this one

Cathy Maday 29:27

yeah so another tagline for all of you to cement this into your brain is stop solving and start shaping yeah you are the multiplier

Ivan Konermann 29:39

so as folks are using some of these tools and think about not solving, starting to shape as they're slowing themselves down from jumping in and doing things and they're helping their team members step in to do these things. Well,

Cathy Maday 29:52

helping in more healthy, powerful ways.

Ivan Konermann 29:54

Ah, great point. That's a way to look at it. Great, great language. Some things for everyone to keep in mind is that if this feels different, that's probably a great indicator that you're not falling into this old autopilot pattern you have that you've been using for years and years. So if it feels different or even a little uncomfortable, That's probably a great indicator you're going down a new path.

Cathy Maday 30:15

Yes, absolutely. Go towards that.

Ivan Konermann 30:17

Yes.

Cathy Maday 30:18

So leaders, put this into practice and you're unstoppable.