Ep 36: The Recipe For Success with Kenny Borchard | Part 2

In this continuation of the conversation, the focus shifts from what dancers do to how they do it and why that difference is everything.

The discussion highlights a common gap in training: dancers often wait until the last run to fully perform. But in real-world settings like auditions, that “final moment” might never come. The takeaway is simple. Performance is not a switch. It is a habit.

This episode dives into the powerful idea that dancers are not half artist and half athlete, but 100% both at all times. From warmups to full-out combinations, artistry and technique should be developed together, not separately.

You’ll also hear insights on:

• Why “marking” should still include intention, energy, and presence
• How transitions, not tricks, are where dancers truly connect with an audience
• The importance of training dynamics, textures, and movement quality from the very beginning of class
• How shifting feedback beyond just technique can transform a dancer’s performance

The conversation expands into what sets workshops apart, especially in helping dancers learn how to learn, build confidence quickly, and understand the realities of a professional dance career.

Key Takeaways & Tips

• Perform every time. Don’t wait for the last run. Treat every rep like it counts.
• Train artistry early. Your warmup is part of your performance training.
• Full-out doesn’t mean reckless. Even when marking, keep energy, intention, and expression alive.
• Master the in-betweens. Transitions are where connection and storytelling happen.
• Use texture as a tool. Think of cement, water, peanut butter, and clouds to create contrast in movement.
• Strengthen your foundation. Focus on foot articulation, coupé, and passé across positions such as standing, floor, and plank.
• Balance versatility with focus. Explore styles but invest deeply in the ones aligned with your goals.
• Build confidence through voice. Speaking up in class helps dancers grow beyond technique.

When dancers stop separating technique from artistry, everything changes.
Training becomes performance. Movement becomes storytelling.

And that’s when dancers don’t just execute. They connect, captivate, and get remembered.

Connect with Kenny:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kennyspic3/?hl=en
Website: https://www.joffreyballetschool.com/kenny-borchard/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to It's All Relative, the podcast where dance technique meets purpose, progress becomes visible, and passion fuels the path forward. I'm Kara Dixon, co-founder of Relative Motion, and our team is made up of professional dancers, teachers, and choreographers here to make high-level training feel doable, measurable, and exciting again. Whether you're a teacher searching for fresh cues, a dancer craving more clarity, or a studio owner chasing a bigger vision, this space is for you. Each week, we'll break down complex techniques, dive into real studio strategy, and share tools that spark transformation from the inside out. Because in this community, we train with intention, we lead with love, and we know that better dancers start with better teachers. So let's grow, let's move, and let's rise together. Because at the end of the day, it's all relative. Friends, welcome back to our conversation with one of the directors of the Joffrey Workshops, Kenny Borchard. This is part two of our conversation. So if you happen to miss last week, run back, catch up, and then meet us back in here. It is such an incredible conversation, such a wealth of knowledge that he brings to the table. And I can't wait to finish the time together with you. Let me do like a flashback to a class I watched of your Australian Dance Festival last year. And I saw dancers who really talented, as they're doing it for the very last time, I'm like, oh, they got it. Look how great they are. But here's the thing they could have done it every time it was their group, great from the beginning. If, like you're saying, if they had learned it and practiced it with that energy. What happened was I think they didn't trust their body at first and they weren't practicing performing. They were just trying to understand the movement patterns and the processes. So they never even put that in. So then they look like, okay, they're doing the choreography, but I don't see any spark. I'm not really getting my eye caught by that dancer because yeah, the choreography's right, but there's just something really missing from it. And then the last time they would do it, it was like, oh, oh my gosh, you're so talented. Where was that for the last hour? If we were in an audition and I had seen you in your group the last time you went on, you wouldn't have gotten called back. So make it so that if you're learning in an audition class, if you perform every single time, the people that are casting you or picking you have way more opportunity for you to catch their eye than if you just do it well the very last time. But like you said, that comes from learning it like that and practicing it like that. And when you mark it, we're still doing the arms full out. We're not going onto the floor, we're not kicking our friend, but still do the arms full out, still find the energy, still practice your facial expressions and how it should feel in your body. So your body's ready for that.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Absolutely. And I think that this really naturally brings us to something else that we talk about a lot, and that's dancers being athletes and artists. Yes. Right. And the thing that I always tell the dancers is you get to be a hundred percent of both, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:22

You I love that.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

You don't have to choose 50% of this, 50% of that. You're a hundred percent artist, you're a hundred percent athlete. Okay. So taking that a little bit further, if we think about class structure, right? Contemporary dance class structure, we're doing a warm-up and we're doing a combination, right? Let's just go with those two parts. Which part is typically more athletic, which part is typically more artistic?

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Right. People are like, oh, the combo is the artistic part. Then you watch the warm-up and you're like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Right. So this is what I invite all the dancers to do is typically dancers are doing warmups they've done for a really long time. And so can we bake in artistry into the technique and into the more athleticism part of the class, the warm-up, right? Very similar to a dogio. Why can none of us do a dagio? Because we're not practicing how to transition slowly from movement to movement. But if we are thinking about our artistry as we're going through our warm-up, rather than just thinking, okay, my bones are stacked, can we also think about texture? What is the room filled with? Can I think about texture as I am going into my lunch? Right. That I already go into, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Speaking about that, one click that I had when I was younger was dancers, like, oh, ballet bar is so boring. But I remember I saw somebody doing this ballet bar and it looked like they were doing their own personal solo and everything was just this gorgeous moment. And I was like, whoa, that's the prettiest bar I've ever seen. And from that point on, every time I was given a combo to warm up at the bar, oh, here's our plie combo. I'd be like, oh, how long can I make my arms? How much breath can I put into my upper body? How long can it take me to get down into this grand plie? Can I really sustain this for every count as I'm coming up and get there at the last second before I go into the next thing? And I remember just being like, okay, ballet's not boring. This is all a dance. You know, we're training our bodies to dance, but that starts from the first thing that we're given in class all the way through the end. And that's not obviously just for ballet, it's for that contemporary that you're talking about. It's for jazz. Like a jazz warm-up could be fun, it could be sharp, it could be quirky, it could be having textures and different layers. And why aren't we enjoying it in a way that would train our bodies to dance like that in the next part of class that you were talking about?

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Right. Well, and then taking the other side of it, right? The combination is where only artistry happens. But what if we used all the technique and all the athleticism that we built up through the warm-up and really applied it to the groundedness of our artistry? Like lengthening, if we practice that texture, it all gets to intermingle so much better. And then if again, if we're moving full out and we're practicing from our warm-up to our combination full out, then we're preparing ourselves better for stage, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:23

When you know, it's funny that you are linking it over to the stage because you're like, okay, here's what we're seeing in class. There are a lot of combos in class, very artistic. Everyone's finding themselves, finding their own style. But then you adjudicate competitions as well. So you look at a comp and there's so much technique in the choreography that dancers seem like they're like, oh, here's my technique. And then in between on those transitions, it's just almost dead space. I'm like, this is where the dance happens. This is where we get to know you. We get to see your movement quality. This is where we connect to you, not the botma or like the eight pirouettes into an aerial. We get to know you in those moments where it's the choreography and the transitions and like the reach out to the audience. And those are the moments I feel like they're just still in technique mode. And it's like, okay, this reaches the theme right before my prep for the next thing, and the face is flat, like you're talking about with performance quality, the artistry for a lot of dancers, flat lines, and then you see them perk up again for whatever the next technique thing is. So I think if you find that marriage, like you're talking about the entire time in class, we just start to train the dancers in what that looks like, what that feels like. And they do start to really understand this partnership between the two for everything they're gonna need that for.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Well, and what just comes to mind is in a dance class, during combination time, during the second half of class, I don't see as much feedback being given on the artistic parts of it. It's being given on how you executed the pirouette, right? But how did you get into the pirouette? That is not spoken about, so therefore it's not given as much value. And so we come back to the technique and we lose the in-betweens, and that's the whole thing, right? Yeah. So how do we break the habit of us as dance teachers? Look like that's the first thing we look at. The first thing we look at is the technical flaws, but what if we looked at the artistic transition that might be helping the technical part as well?

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Yeah. I mean, what if we ran through the whole solo with the technique taken out? You just have to do all the movement patterns in between, all the transitions, and really train those and see what the dancer even feels during those moments. Okay, are they grounded? Are they reaching that arm as far as they possibly can? Are they really sustaining this movement? Are they using textures, dynamics, all the things? So it'd be an interesting experiment, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Well, I think even like going through a whole routine and figuring out what texture goes along with every single step, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Why is this different than what we just did?

unknown 9:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

I use four different ones. I use you're moving through cement, peanut butter, water, and clouds. And so if we go through and find just those four different execution styles, then the whole routine changes.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

So I'm just giving that one like one version to tweak.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

And it makes the dance itself more dynamic because a lot of dancers will go through their whole dance and it feels all very much the same. There's an opportunity, even if the music kind of stays even for that dance to really build and have dynamics and for the audience to feel that they're on this ride with the dancer to experience something. And so sometimes if it just stays within one texture, the audience themselves, they kind of tune out. They're not really experiencing what we want them to, what the dancer is trying to portray. Piggybacking on that, if you could give studio teachers one thing to focus on immediately in their curriculum, what would it be? Because I know we've talked about so many things, right? But if you were like, hey, focus on this immediately, this would be your number one, what would that be?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Great, another great question. I mean, just as plies and tondus are the foundation of everything in ballet, I think if we can work on articulating through the feet and then drilling the coupe position, the passe position in both parallel and turned out, take those three ideas articulating through the feet, coupe, passe, and now do them standing up, do them laying down, feel what muscles are supporting us in the laying down version, keep that idea, and then now put it in plank and make the same position so that you see from all different gravitational pulls, really, like muscles are being engaged and how we keep those positions, right? Because then what does that help? That helps our pirouettes, that helps all the things foundation, the standing leg, uh the core.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

And I love that idea of the passe, the coupe, all the things. And I love that idea with a lot of lines that you're gonna hit is find different elements. And if a dancer is not ready to do like saying all the second standing, have them go on their back, try it supine, make sure that they actually understand the placement. If a dancer is not doing a great passe or retere standing, like you said, have them lie on their back. If they can get the position lying on their back, they're more likely to understand it standing. Maybe at first have to be standing at a bar. And then they can be standing solid. And then definitely in a plank, we're dealing with a lot of gravitational pull and a lot of core if we're gonna be holding a posse there. So, okay, how are your dancers doing here? Are they still holding their pelvic alignment? Are they still doing all these things? So I think that's great advice, starting with that. And there's so many lines like you're expressing that can be tested in those positions to make sure, okay, you have it laying on your back, but can you do it standing? Okay, no, but we can do it standing at a bar. Let's move it there. Okay, now can we do it in a plank? Planks are hard.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Planks are always hard, and then connecting it back. We just went from pictures, the pictures of the positions. Now, what about moving through those, right? Yes, going into devil pay, friend, passe, sat, right? You now start to build in the artistry into the position. Once you found the positions, though, right? Yes, you found the foundations of the positions, then you can start incorporating artistry through those positions. The technique is where the artistry gets to thrive.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's so good. Let me ask you this. So, you see dancers from all over the world. What differences do you notice internationally in training approaches specifically?

SPEAKER_01 13:08

So we've only done one event in Europe, but we have done a lot more in Australia, and I think you have as well. So, one thing I just notice in Australia is the innate joy and fire and love for dance that they have. It's just different there, it's unmatched, not like it is here in the States. And I attribute that to maybe access of in the States, there's 17 conventions in the same city on the same weekend. There's just a lot going on here.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

And saturated.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

There is more saturation, yeah. But I think that what Australia does really well is building the love for dance, and the expression I think is beautiful to see. I do think the technique within the combinations that I've seen at the different conventions we've been at is not as focused on as the quality of the choreo, you know.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Yeah. So basically, we're crushing it with technique and they're crushing it with passion.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Artistry.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

We need to get these two countries together and we need to crush it together. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 14:18

That's what this cross-polonization hopefully brings, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Yeah, exactly. Sometimes we just take it for granted because, like you said, there are so many opportunities. So let's talk about this. For teachers listening who might send their dancers, what makes the Joffrey workshops unique?

SPEAKER_01 14:37

So they are taking between four and six styles throughout the weekend. So they are getting a really good blend of ballet, contemporary jazz, musical theater from people who have performed on those stages and by kind human beings. That is a non-negotiable for us. We watch every single teacher teach multiple classes before they become Joffrey Workshop teachers, and most of them have had affiliations with the Joffrey Workshop or the Joffrey Valley. So we're really particular about the energy that the teachers give and making that collaborative class because that's just where the dancers thrive the most. And that's where we get to see the most out of them and where they get to feel the most confident and comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Yeah. And your faculty is, like you said, very versed, very professional, and also very kind. The ones I've met are just so talented and so great to be around. And so I imagine that not only the studio owners that are engaging in the workshop as well, but all the dancers and all the families are probably going to feel so welcomed and warm and excited to even walk into the space with you guys, which I love. What do dancers typically gain from the workshops that they don't get in their regular studio training?

SPEAKER_01 15:56

What we're trying to bring, or and what I really focus on in my class is learning how to learn. For me, growing up as a dancer, I had a really hard time connecting steps. But when we were learning combinations, I just didn't know how to piece them together. And so that was a really hard thing for me that I didn't know what to do. And so I started building scripts. And so I'm saying the name of the step as I'm executing it. And so I'm making my little friendship bracelet of steps in my head so that you can remember. And then I say and do. So I say four counts, and then you say it back to me. And we repeat that and we execute it, and there's just such a big growth, even if they've never done the style. We're going into places who have never done a contemporary class before. And so when I can say scoop, scoop pockets and heels, and then they can connect the words that they learned to the steps that they're about to do with their body, then they're more likely to continue on with exploring it because they've had a more visceral experience with it.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Yeah. Well, that's awesome. And I bet that's really comforting for dancers who get nervous going into workshops or conventions, or like you said, studios that maybe haven't brought guests in before and they're like, I don't even know what to expect. My dancers are new to this. I don't know if they're going to be able to learn in six classes over the course of two days. And you're like, hey, we understand how hard it is. We've been in that position where it was hard for me to learn. And so these are techniques that I used when I was younger that I'm going to give your dancers and they're going to feel really confident. And I bet the parents, too, when their children are having that much confidence and that much belief, when they're probably really nervous, especially if they haven't had access to workshops of this caliber before, are probably so relieved when their child comes out with that confidence and that experience and just feeling like they start to believe in themselves more. They come back the next day even more confident and you see it. You just see a different demeanor on the dancers when you've built that belief in them, which I think is so awesome.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

We weren't allowed to contribute in that way. I think the dance class is the perfect place to practice speaking your voice into the space, feeling confident in contributing to a conversation. If we can practice how we advocate for ourselves and practice how we share in conversations in a space where hopefully we feel comfortable, then when we go out into other spaces where we already are nervous to share, but we've practiced it because we did it in our other class, right? Yes. Then we are building that muscle or building that skill in an environment we feel comfortable in already.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Yeah. And the thing that you're coming into the studio, and a lot of times they've never met you before, the dancers. And to build the confidence and to build that type of environment so quickly with them is something really special. I don't think a lot of, I would say, master teachers or workshops that come in really put that time and concern into making sure I know that we also, and you and I collaborate on this a lot as far as conversation. Our biggest thing is building the belief in the dancers. They have to believe they can do it in order for us to get them to do it. We have to see their potential. We have to see it, know as teachers that they can do it, but also build that confidence in them. And it's hard. You're in there two days, right? It's hard to get that unfolding to happen that quickly. But I love that you guys have this pathway to that. You have a way where you get in, you know, okay, we're gonna teach the dancers in this fashion, we're gonna give them this type of encouragement. And we know that they're going to be able to feel comfortable in this environment. And once dancers feel comfortable and have that belief, they just truly blossom. So I love that that's one of the main elements to what you do. Last thing, how do your workshops help dancers understand the reality of a professional world? Because I know not only you and Mara, but also your other teachers have worked professionally in what you're teaching. And so what we see a lot is that dancers are talented, but they really don't understand you probably aren't gonna need this many contortion tricks for your professional job. You're probably not gonna need some of the things you're putting a lot of time in. But here are some things that you need for the professional world. And so you have two days to be like, these teachers that we have have done this, they've walked this life and they are gonna share it with you. How do you help dancers understand it?

SPEAKER_01 20:38

I think the exposure to a lot of different styles is great. And I think that training in and being really excellent in a couple is going to be much more beneficial than being just so versatile, right? Like there is a balance between that, yes, get a foundation and kind of have an understanding on how you can do all the different styles and how your body reacts to it. But then I also think there is a time where you have to determine your focus, right? Because for me personally, I didn't dive as well with hip-hop. And so if I would have spent all my time in hip-hop classes, I wouldn't have gained the technical foundation I needed to be professional in musical theater and jazz. So I had to choose how I was spending my time to build my career. And I think that workshop gives you an opportunity to see what styles you fit in most with that you can then channel your energy towards and direct your energy towards the career you want to build.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

It's awesome. Isn't that what we all want? Is educators is really get dancers going in the right direction of what is going to move the needle, not just for this comp season, but long term. What are their real goals? What are their real dreams? That was so good talking with you, Kenny. I wanted to wrap up by saying just for the teachers and dancers listening, where can they find you? Where can they get more information about Joffrey Workshops and any upcoming auditions or any upcoming opportunities that you have available?

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Yes. So you can find us at Joffreyworkshop.com or on Instagram at Joffreyworkshop. And there are still auditions going on to be considered for the Dallas summer program that Mara and I co-direct. But there are also auditions that you can go to for any of the Joffrey Valley School summer programs. The audition tour is massive. There's so many teachers out every weekend going to different parts of the country to do auditions, which is just pretty cool to see all of the US in that way. So that's the Joffrey Workshop.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

That's amazing. And Kenny, when does the Joffrey Audition tour kind of wrap up?

SPEAKER_01 22:56

So there's auditions in through April.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Okay. So, guys, it's gonna be about mid-March. Look for an audition. Try to find Kenny and Morrow at an audition, but if they don't have one that you can get to, try to find an audition. This is such an awesome opportunity. Studio owners and teachers, I can't speak highly enough about these workshops. So if you're looking for a great workshop that gives different elements of different genres, professionalism and audition and everything all together, I highly recommend looking into Joffrey Workshops. They do a fantastic job and it's truly worth bringing into your studio. Kenny, thank you so much for joining us today. This was such a great conversation. It's always so good to see my friend too. And everybody, we will see you next week.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Yes, thanks so much for having me. Thanks everyone.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

That's a wrap on today's episode of It's All Relative. Thank you for spending your time with us. We believe what you bring to the dance world matters, and we're honored to support the way you teach, read, and inspire. If this episode moved you, made you think, or gave you something new to try, hit that subscribe button so you don't miss what's next. You can connect with us anytime at Relative Motion Dance on Instagram or visit relativemotiondance.com for more tools and training. Until next time, keep growing, keep leading, and keep dancing with purpose. Because remember, it's all relative.