Ep 44: Everybody Wins...Until They Don't with Kate Pagano

Is competition dance still preparing dancers for the real world, or are constant awards creating fragile confidence instead of real growth?

In this episode of It’s All Relative, Cara Dixon sits down with Kate Pano for an honest conversation about the evolution of competition dance culture and the psychological impact of today’s scoring systems. From first-place trophies to platinum awards, adjudication trends, competitive levels, and participation-based recognition, Cara and Kate unpack what happens when “everybody wins”, and how that affects dancer mindset, resilience, motivation, and long-term success.

Together, they explore how competitive dance training, audition preparation, feedback culture, and goal setting shape dancers both inside and outside the studio. This episode is a must-listen for dance teachers, studio owners, dance parents, and competitive dancers navigating today’s competition landscape

Cara and Kate talked about:

• How modern dance competition scoring systems have shifted from true ranking to participation-based recognition
• The impact of constant awards and “everybody wins” culture on dancer motivation, confidence, and work ethic
• Why competitive dancers need real feedback, technique corrections, and healthy evaluation to prepare for auditions and professional dance careers
• The difference between building genuine confidence versus fragile confidence through competition results
• How teachers and studios can create a healthy competitive dance mindset focused on growth, resilience, discipline, and long-term dancer development

This episode challenges dancers, teachers, and parents to rethink what success in competition dance really means. Trophies may celebrate a moment, but true dancer growth comes from training, persistence, accountability, and the willingness to keep improving. When studios focus on building strong technique, resilience, and healthy competition habits, dancers leave prepared not just for the stage, but for life beyond it.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to It's All Relative, the podcast where dance technique meets purpose, progress becomes visible, and passion fuels the path forward. I'm Kara Dixon, co-founder of Relative Motion, and our team is made up of professional dancers, teachers, and choreographers here to make high-level training feel doable, measurable, and exciting again. Whether you're a teacher searching for fresh cues, a dancer craving more clarity, or a studio owner chasing a bigger vision, this space is for you. Each week, we'll break down complex technique, dive into real studio strategy, and share tools that spark transformation from the inside out. Because in this community, we train with intention, we lead with love, and we know that better dancers start with better teachers. So let's grow, let's move, and let's rise together. Because at the end of the day, it's all relative. Hey friends! Welcome to our newest episode of It's All Relative. I'm so excited because today I'm here with my friend Kate Bagano, and she has been on with us several times because I love her. We work so closely together, and we had a really fun topic we wanted to talk about today, and that is really competition-based. We're gonna be talking about everyone wins until they don't. And so one thing that Kate and I were talking about back and forth is that when Kate and I competed when we were younger, it would literally just be first, second, third, right? We would go and you either get first place, second place, third place, or you don't win anything at all. And so it was like a different environment altogether. And now we judge, and you know, Kate also teaches at a studio that's highly competitive. She has a young dancer who's competitive, her daughter. And so she's seeing it from a lot of different angles. I'm seeing it as an adjudicator and also seeing it change over the years because now I've been adjudicating what, like 15 plus years and how much it's shifted, you know. So just talking candidly about where competition is today, where it used to be, and the pros and the cons. So welcome, Kate.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Hi, everybody. I'm so excited to be on today. Yes, this is quite a new, like controversial topic, I guess you could say, in the industry, and just interesting to see where competition has led us to in a way, and that there's still some of those competitions out there that are kind of holding on to the old school way, but then there's other ones that are expanding a little bit. And we're just gonna talk a little bit about, you know, how that maybe shapes your dancers and what that means for the future of your students.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Yeah, absolutely. And we touched on as we were introducing the episode, we used to have first, second, and third. You either won or you didn't win. And now not only is there first through, you know, like 10th, but every performance gets a high gold, a platinum, a crystal, a diamond. They all get it. So no matter how you performed, you're going on stage and you're getting an award. They're not gonna skip your number and you get nothing. So everyone wins to some extent. Nobody's going home empty-handed. And I see why that's happening. Like dancers are more encouraged by that. Studios love it, parents love it, competitions have better retention when people leave, feeling like they've accomplished something. So there's like all the parties involved to a certain extent love that, right? But then we go beyond first through 10th or whatever, all the golds, all the platinums, all the everything, not being able in a lot of ways as adjudicators to even give some of the lower awards. Like we kind of are encouraged to not really touch the lower awards, you know? And then we have all the category awards, all the special awards, all the judges awards, all the technique awards, all the performance awards. And so it's gone so far from first, second, and third to awards on awards on awards on awards. Like, okay, you didn't get this, but you got this. Okay, you didn't get the top in your genre, but you got the top in your age. There's so many avenues to win at a competition that even the award show sometimes can be over an hour. They're just going on forever because they're handing out so many. And so I want to hear, first of all, what are your thoughts on that, Kate?

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Yeah, I mean, I feel like, you know, there's a place for giving people something to be proud about, something to be excited about. You know, competition is meant to be competitive, and people should be going into it to compete. And I think if you think about when we used to compete, now, granted, I was just thinking about this the other day. We used to compete at competitions that were nowhere near the length of the competitions these days, right? So we're taking in a lot of extra entries. And I think by taking in more entries, we're taking in more dancers because we're taking in all these levels, right? So something that never really evolved for us back in the day was the level thing, right? Like you either competed or you didn't. And I think what's interesting about that and not having the levels is that when you go to audition, you know, and I think as anyone that's pursuing dance competitively is usually pretty engaged and pretty involved. And this is probably something they're interested in pursuing, giving the time commitment, financial commitment, everything else in competitive dance, but there are no levels when you go to audition, right? I mean, there's a tier, maybe for Disney, for example, right? So they have equity performers, then they have parade performers, you know. So yes, you could be a costume character or you could be an equity dancer, you know, but I feel like if we're going so competitive and we're really drilling it home and we're putting ourselves out there, that these people when they go to filter into society someday and go to audition and be in that atmosphere, we're almost setting them up for failure because we've taught them that, okay, if this division is too hard, you can go to this division instead. Okay, well, guess what? Yeah, and win it. Right. But then guess what? You and Billy and Susie and whoever were in this, you know, category. And then now you're dancing against Mary and Bob and everyone else at this audition because you weren't against them because they were in the advanced category, you were in the intermediate or what have you. And now you're all together, and I don't know that you might stand a chance, right? Because you spent your whole life excelling in this comfort zone.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yeah, and once you get into an audition, like you said, there's not a level to it, you're competing against everyone, and it is it to some extent a competition. You're all buying for the same job. And so now you're at a competition that actually has pretty high stakes. If you want to be a performer and you want this job, and all the people that you were leveled out of dancing against are there, now you are back in this competitive process, but you don't really have the roots to stand up with these other dancers. Now the levels are crazy. I mean, not because we should or shouldn't have levels, so I'm not gonna give an opinion on that. I just think sometimes we spend so long trying to nurture dancers that we're not really engaging them to the level that they need to be engaged in order to hit their goals. So we're saying, hey, you did a great job, you won this, but you didn't like win it against other dancers your age who are also highly competitive. And so then the question comes these are the dancers that they're saying in the novice category are only at the studio this many hours a week, have only been dancing this length of time. So if they don't want to spend more hours a week and they haven't been dancing longer, are they actually ready to be competitive? Or are we still preparing? Are we still preparing in the studio behind the scenes and maybe in a year they're ready to be competitive? Maybe in a year their parents want to bring them to five technique classes instead of one. Maybe they're actually not ready to be competitive. And if they are in more, what I love is now there's so many competitions out there that maybe you don't go to the super advanced, crazy competitive competition itself. There's a competition for every studio. There's some that are gonna be an easier point of entry with other studios that are also just getting their dancers prepared and on the stage. And so maybe there's that avenue as well, is just knowing which comps in general are gonna be bringing other studios in that are at that competitive level without actually saying novice, intermediate, advanced, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Right. Cause then people too, I feel like, you know, because we compete, and I feel like sometimes there is a little bit of an abuse of the level, you know. There are unfortunately just people in the industry that go against where they really should, you know, they train this many hours, they put themselves in the lower category to win, and it's a whole business system with getting the parents to think that the kids are doing well and all of that kind of stuff. And I always think of it as like where we came from and what we were prepared for. And it is a competitive industry, you know, and I used to love auditioning, but I also used to love competing. So I love going out there on the stage and doing my best and seeing who I was competing against and really putting the work in and then going to the audition and being like, oh wow, okay, this person's in my group. I need to step it up. If you don't have that edge when you're on stage as in your youth, you might learn in the industry how to cultivate that, but it's gonna be something that's gonna be better created for you when you're younger. And two, like we were talking a little bit about the first, second, third, right? It did used to be like a gold, silver, a bronze. Yeah, I remember headliners, for example, like you know, 1998. I mean, there was no platinum.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

And now it's like platinum was at one point they added platinum, so people that got gold, which was the highest, now that's the middle. So people still felt really great getting the middle award. But then platinum didn't become good enough. There was like a weird shift in the system where it was like gold, silver, bronze. People didn't want silver, they didn't want second, so then gold became second, and they were okay hearing gold. Right. You know, they added platinum, so then it was like silver, gold, platinum. Now there's a silver on every scoring card for probably every comp I've ever judged at, and we're told not to use it. So it's like silver, gold, platinum, like platinum plus or crystal or like Pro this or whatever, but now even platinum is no longer the highest one. Now platinum is the old silver, which was in the gold, which is now the so it's like we have this mindset where we're so scared for people not to feel like they won. And I think it's more just like we're afraid not to award people because of how people are gonna react if they put all this time in, all this money in. How are they gonna react if they go to a competition and they don't win it? And so one thing I looked up because I was like, okay, I want some stats behind this because in my mind, I was like, okay, I feel like for littles, it's very good for them to win. I feel like it's almost like when littles are in league sports and it's a participation trophy. So when my babies were in soccer, the end of the season came, everyone got a trophy. They went to basketball. At the end of the season, everyone gets the trophy. They don't even really keep score at the game. I mean, you know, sometimes as a parent, I kind of like do, but they don't. I'm fine with that when they're three or four. But when my oldest, who's now nine, he was allowed to be on the cross country team. It was like, I think it was like eight, they're allowed to be on it. He got approval at seven. The first time we ran a cross country meet at seven years old, they did awards at the end. And they awarded for each age category, they awarded first, second, and third. That is it, okay, for this cross country with hundreds of kids running. First, second, and third was it. And as a parent, I was like, cool, great. I mean, the chances of us getting it, his it's the first time running, he's a year younger than he's supposed to be. Right. He got first place for his age category. Now, let me tell you, he put that trophy, the other trophies just went to the back of his closet at that point. He didn't even realize he wasn't really earning trophies before. He put that trophy front and center on his dresser. The next time people came over to our house and he was showing them his room, he was like, This is my trophy. This is the first time I actually earned a trophy. And he explained it like, I've always been given trophies because I was part of a team, but this is my first trophy that I earned and I got first place. And for me as a parent, I'm like, see, that's what we're so scared of doing, even before your kid does well or doesn't, you're afraid of what the reaction's gonna be if it's not a win. And so we try to protect and we hover and we do everything we can to make sure that if they're participating, they feel really good. And I think that that's where we started shifting. Now, I do think, okay, you're getting these three-year-olds, these four-year-olds, these five-year-olds, these six-year-olds on stage. Give everyone something. Oh, you got gold, like your team one, you got platinum, your solo got this. It's like, let's encourage them because in the beginning, and I looked this up, it's like there's a mindset shift for little dancers that they need encouragement. They need to feel like they understand the process and getting that confidence. And this is how we learn choreography, this is how we clean the piece, this is how we prepare to go on stage, this is how we act as a team, this is what it feels like to go on stage, this is what it feels like to be part of the awards. And like, I do think it would be really difficult to do first, second, and third when a kid's six because you can't retain them. They the retention would be so low, right? So the other hundred kids that didn't were in top three. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

And they're too young to understand like why is there a top three? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

And why am I not in the top three? I'm doing my best, right? You know, and like those are the ages where it's like they're in the studio and everything needs to be building belief, building encouragement, getting them confidence, believing that they can do it and giving them the excitement to know that they have the talent, they have the potential. This is for you. Are you excited? Do you just do you just love to dance? And are you able to be in this performance and then give them something? Like, let's award them. But at a certain point, and I looked this up as far as mindset too, and that's how you build retention when dancers are like eight and under. But then there's this interesting shift that happens when dancers are older. That it's like if you constantly award them for participation, they lose their drive because there's no real winning and losing. And then they start to fall off. So they're like, I mean, I put 16 hours in this week just in my classes, and then rehearsals on top of it. This kid at the other studio, I know they only went to class for three hours. I got a platinum and I was only three points ahead of that dancer. Like, why am I still doing this? And what am I getting that that dancer's not getting? And they don't see the process shake out or them booking a job later or them doing all these things because everyone won. Like, what is the difference?

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Right. Well, it definitely has a psychological impact, you know? And we want them not to just take home trophies, we want them to take home like a belief system, you know, and understanding how everything shifts based on the work you put into it. But if that doesn't happen, then we get this it's not even like confidence, it's like fragile confidence. It's like it's inconsistent, you don't really know what mood they're in today. You just it's their how they perform is based on their atmosphere and how competitive the places that they're at. Is it a lot of dancers that are really talented? Are we a little bit on the upswing here? Are we a little more advanced? Can we ease off a little bit? And then they have this identity that's really based on the outcome of their performance and not their performance, their award, right? So not getting off stage and going, okay, I flubbed that turn and getting mad at yourself because I would do that too, you know, and then I would go watch my VHS tape in the lobby and see like, okay, it wasn't as bad as I thought. But then, you know, the score was the score and whatnot. But like really judging yourself based on how you did, you know, and I feel like that's not really what we do. We are like get off stage and whatnot, and then by the end of the night, that's how we feel based on where we placed. And then there's like fear of real, like not rejection, but evaluation. You know, it's like at the studio I'm at, we have the dancers listen to their critiques. I have dancers write down their critiques and bring them in for our next lesson. We're supposed to work with them right after the competition, they compete at and review them. You have to come to terms with what people are telling you, you know. And I think there is this fear in society, and like you were saying, how it just kind of shakes out on the impact it has on their psychology, but also their training. And if everyone's winning and I'm coming home feeling pretty good with how I did because almost everybody got something, then what do I really need to work for back at the studio?

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yeah, and I don't want to really listen to my tapes because they might tell me something different than my score. I might feel different listening to my tapes than I did when I got my score. Like I might feel great hearing that I got a platinum, but if I heard all the corrections because I am being nurtured in a certain way, I might really not want that. You know? It might be really difficult. But you think to yourself, like, okay, are we really at some point, are we really nurturing our dancers? Or are we just delaying the time when they realize what it takes? Like if we push that time block too far to when they were about to graduate, and then they realize that they they were farther from the mark than they expected because we've been over superlatives and this and that. And then all of a sudden, they don't get into the college that they auditioned for. Or, I mean, I've seen dancers who were on so much as competitive dancers, and then they auditioned for dance team at college and they didn't get on it, and they stopped dancing altogether. And it's like, well, you know, that was their first no out of all these yeses, all these years. So have we actually nurtured that dancer, or have we sent them off not really as prepared as they needed to be for the goals that they had set? And we talk about this all the time with injuries, where it's like we're not thinking long term, like that dancer's body needs to last them for the rest of their life, you know, and also with goal setting, like we're talking about here, is competition. And I love competition. You and I talk about this all the time. Like, I we're highly competitive people, we love competition, we still work in the competition scene, and I love it. But I'm like, there's gotta be a moment where the competition is about learning and it's about the experience, and you really kind of understand where you sit with the rest of the industry of performers you're gonna be auditioning against at some point soon. So when you're a teenager and you're in high school, you're not preparing for your solo in nationals. You're preparing to audition for college, you're preparing to audition for a job, and the stakes are way higher. So the longer we kind of protect our feelings, the longer we get into this zone where are we actually gonna have what it takes when the time comes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

We're being a little too protective, you know? And yeah, and then if you get out there and like, I mean, people say this all the time, but you don't put your top score this on your resume. You know, I mean it's like people say you're like, right, no, like the award doesn't matter. The process and the journey and the growth and and how you immerse yourself and all of the opportunities, those are the things that filter into your success later down the road. You being able to drill a dance and do so well with one dance, but not necessarily do well in class and all this other stuff, then that doesn't help you down the road because you can't pick up choreography. You may not be versatile, you are only relying on winning with this one piece. But competition's awesome, and I think it should expose dancers to other dancers and it should expose dancers to a competitive atmosphere and having to fight for yourself in a room and having that drive underneath you, you know, an opportunity to perform, an opportunity to get feedback. Like some, you know, the places we go are these like incredible judges, judging some of my students. And I'm like, how lucky are you guys to have this incredible professional giving you guidance and feedback on how you're performing? Those are the things you take home and cherish, you know, and having some kind of feel of where you stack amongst people, but not basing your life on it, you know. I love conventions too with competitions because you have the option to compete, but you also go for the class experience and you're awarded scholarships based on how you stand in the front, how you pick up choreography, how you dance around other people in the room. Are you friendly? Are you snarky? Are you versatile? And the competition scene definitely has its perk. So in this industry, we have to figure out how we can get our dancers to really appreciate what it's there for, you know? It's not that they're the problem, it's just how we're using them to guide dancers to their future. And even if they don't go professional as a dancer, there is gonna be always something that's so competitive in nature down the road. Like when I went back to school for PT, they took 28 people. And it's like there was hundreds of people that applied, and that's it, you know, as a dance mom too. I'm kind of old school with my child. Like she's five, almost six. And when something isn't successful for her or she doesn't, and I'm like, well, just keep working harder. I'm not one of these generational parents that's like, oh yeah, you deserve that, or that, you know, I was cutthroat on myself, I was hard on myself. I'm not gonna be super hard on her in the way I would treat myself, but I want her to understand, and somewhere down the road, you're gonna have to compete for it. You're gonna work for it. No one's handing out in competition dance. There are, like we've talked about, everyone's getting a trophy to some capacity at different options or different places they can go. But once you're 18, you step out. That doesn't exist, you know? And it's hard to mislead them. And then, yeah, they like you said, your friend that didn't get into that school. Like, I can't tell you how many no's I got. Like thousands. Thousands. I auditioned for the show for Disney for 10 years before I was called for it. 10. Because I was persistent and I was like, I will audition for 10 years. Like, I'm gonna keep going until they call me for this one show.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

So I want this one, right? Well, you know, that's what it is, and auditioning is. A skill. I mean, that's what another reason why I do like conventions because they have that auditioning aspect in the convention. They also have the class taking aspect, which an audition is like you're taking a class and you're having to regurgitate in real time that information in front of essentially judges. You know, almost like you wouldn't put dancer of the year on your resume, most likely, but you would probably put the experience you earned into action. Like you set a goal to be the top dancer of this specific convention. And not only that, but after you win that, the amount of traveling and being in with these top professionals and going week to week and doing their choreography and being in the scene, like working hard, showing up, those are skills you're gonna take. So maybe you're not gonna put that on your resume as like a like what you did, you know, but all the skills that you take from it, you're gonna use those forever. And so whether a dancer becomes a professional or not, to give them access to that highest level of skill, that's the greatest gift that we can give them, is for them to understand those things, right? And then one thing is I also looked up because we were kind of talking about this a while back, but the Olympics just happened. So we were looking, we're like, okay, well, the Olympics out of the entire world, they're only giving first, second, and third. I mean, we're not talking about one dance competition, we're talking about the entire world is competing and they're not gonna give a superlative, they're gonna give you three scores. Like you're taking out gold, no unbreakable ties. Yeah, we're not, yeah, there's no nine dancers in the top three. Right. This is like gold, silver, bronze. That's all it is. And there's so much pride in that and earning it. They wouldn't be so proud if everybody that came to the Olympics got something. And so I also looked this up because I was curious about it. And I'm like, okay, was it always competitive like that in Olympian sports before this point? Like, obviously, at some point they're working at such a cutthroat level. But in my research, it was like they're all starting in league sports, they're all starting in these sports that have tiered competition and easy access. It just gets the athletes in and encouraged and building their skill, understanding the process. And then at a certain point, it does, it switches. They eliminate all the extra awards, they eliminate all of the fluff that goes into getting them to love the sport. And now it's like, no, now you love the sport. Now you have to get good at it. Like you need to be the best at the sport that you can be if you want to do something with it. So now it switches from the love of it and nurturing to okay, well, we got to get real if you have some goals with this. And so I love that because it just it kind of reiterates that yes, we are on the right track with our competitive dance system. But at some point, and I think this is where we're not gonna change competitive dance, you know, that's not our goal. But at some point, we, because Kate, you and I are in the studios a lot, and it's like, okay, how can we set up a studio environment that gives dancers that same process, even if the competitive system doesn't give them that process? So, how with our littles like undernines, it's the encouragement, it's the building belief, it's the nurturing, it's the showing them the process and giving them that you've got this, okay, you're doing great, giving them those aha moments every time they come to class, giving them the excitement, the joy. And then at a certain point, where do we sit them down at nine, nine to eleven? And we're like, okay, this is how mobile you are, this is how flexible you are, this is how strong you are. These are your goals, this is what you want to do with dance, and like touch back in because at nine, they're not gonna know what they want to do as adults, but like check back in at 12, check back in when they first go to high school, check back in when they're juniors and see, okay, are your goals shifting and make sure that we're really giving them the truth about where they are in alignment with that goal and the truth about the process and what it's gonna take to get to that goal, and then make sure that we have the skills as teachers to get them to that goal. And if we don't, we skill up, right? Yeah, there's always something available.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Exactly. Educate, yeah, and I think too with competition, encourage your dancers in there's options, right? So sometimes dancers are gonna want to lean into those things that, you know, if there's optional competitions or optional conventions or this, that, or the other, and they want to invest their time in the one that they might win at. You know, it's like, okay, well, let's try to push ourselves to go to the one that maybe we might struggle with a little bit more, but that's the level up, you know, really if we're gonna compete, let's compete.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Um we don't want to confuse recognition with achievement. And I think that this is the line where the dancers are getting recognized and they're starting to think that that's synonymous with them achieving something maybe higher than they are. So, how do we as teachers reset after each event, reground, give them that perspective? And okay, you did great here. This is what we're still working on. Let's keep going.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Yeah. And taking the time too when you're in those privates, say you come back from competition and you're working through those pieces again, whether it's a group or a solo or whatever it is, that you're not just running the dance. These kids are getting corrections for a certain reason, taking that feedback and making them really own the feedback and apply it in the moment and work through things in that moment. That, like, okay, you're getting a lot of corrections on not straightening your knees and fuate turns or alice cones. Okay, don't just keep running the Alice cones, work through something that's going to help them go to the bar, take it back, make them feel how that leg needs to straighten and what muscles need to be used. And then tell them to start incorporating these concepts into their classes that they're not in with you, you know, um, something that you're in the ballet bar, really think about this. And then those corrections start to become their identity and start to become something that they walk into the classroom ready to achieve, and that becomes a goal. And then, you know, and then it's like, okay, maybe my next competition, my lines look better in some of my technique because I've worked towards it. And that to them is their success, not oh, well, I got second and my friend got first. And so it's not like we're defining ourselves based on where we place, but more of what we achieve as a dancer from one competition to the next, like that we're better than we were the day before, even though we might not score as high. That there's other things that they can goal set. I think that's important in keeping them kind of level-headed through the process so they're not super overwhelmed by things, but they're also not feeling like they've already succeeded. Because that's the thing too. Like if they score, everyone gets a trophy, they come back to the studio not driven to work. So giving dancers in goal setting, like you were talking about, like sitting them down. Where are we at this age? What are things we feel like we need to work on? I mean, I do it with my own child and she's five, you know, like where do you feel like you need to grow? These teachers teach these private lessons. What do you want to do? It's just as parents and as teachers and even as dancers, just hone in on you have to know your strengths, right? Because you want to showcase, you need to figure out what your best things are. And I tell my dancers that's like improv like, what are your top three things? What do you do really well? Those are where you're gonna throw out at an improv. And then work on the other things, right? Don't just live in your top three, right? If you can only do a back tuck and this and this, well, maybe one day you have a nice leg extension because you've worked on your flexibility. But yeah, the training mindset. So I think at the end of the day, competition's awesome. It pushes people, it really guided me through so much of my life to have the mindset in the competitive edge I had professionally. But we want to make sure that we're maintaining that in a healthy way and you know, that everyone's feeling successful, but still like they have something to work towards, that they're not capped out. They haven't done it all. Right, you know.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Right. And as we're closing out, because I think these are all good takeaways. We have to remember, especially as competitive studios, if you're listening in your competitive studio, we have to remember that trophies don't create good dancers. You do. Your job and role as a teacher is to create, to help them, to work side by side with them and create what they need in order to hit the goals that they have. It's not going to be defined because they got a trophy or they didn't get a trophy, right? It's gonna be defined because you built belief in your dancer, you built that technique in your dancer, your dancer trusted you, their parents trusted you. So at the end of the day, like the trophy is a trophy. But are you working and seeing with your dancer that they actually have this long-term ability to reach their dreams and reach their goals? And if that's the case, then you're exactly where you need to be. And if not, just shift and see is there something we can do in the studio that's going to give them something outside of what they're seeing at their competitive events. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Completely agree. Well, it's great talking to you, friend. It was great talking to all of you guys as well. And we'll see you next time on It's All Relative. That's a wrap on today's episode of It's All Relative. Thank you for spending your time with us. We believe what you bring to the dance world matters, and we're honored to support the way you teach, read, and inspire. If this episode moved you, made you think, or gave you something new to try, hit that subscribe button so you don't mess with the next. You can connect with us anytime at Relative Motion Dance on Instagram or visit relativemotiondance.com for more tools and training. Until next time, keep growing, keep leading, and keep dancing with purpose. Because remember, it's all relative.