A Viral Trisomy 21 Termination And The Internet’s Reaction

A family influencer posts their most personal news yet: they chose to terminate a pregnancy after learning their baby had Trisomy 21, also known as Down syndrome. Within hours, the story turns into a full-blown internet firestorm with grief, outrage, disability advocacy, faith-based arguments, and truly unacceptable harassment all colliding in one comment section. We slow the noise down and talk like real moms trying to make sense of what we’re seeing and why it feels so heavy.

We get into the part people skip: how prenatal testing and genetic screening can create panic, confusion, and decision pressure, especially when accuracy, follow-up testing, and false positives are still part of the conversation. We also unpack why words matter, including the difference between miscarriage and termination language, and why a “we’re excited to try again” statement can land as dismissive to families who cherish their children with Down syndrome.

Then we tackle the bigger cultural question: what happens when influencers film the anatomy scan, read results on camera, and turn a medical crisis into content. We can condemn death threats and still ask for dignity, care, and basic responsibility when discussing disability in public. If you’ve ever felt anxious, overstimulated, or torn between empathy and anger online, this one will sit with you.

Subscribe for more honest motherhood conversations, share this with a friend who can handle nuance, and leave a review if the show helps you feel less alone. Where do you think the line is between private grief and public content?

Transcript

Welcome To The Moms Club

SPEAKER_03 0:01

You're listening to the Anxiety Ridden Moms Club, the podcast for moms who love their kids deeply and still feel anxious, exhausted, and overstimulated.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Here, we talk about the messy stuff, the thoughts we don't say out loud, the pressure to do it all, and the journey back to ourselves. Progress over perfection always. Let's go. Welcome back to the Anxiety Ridden Moms Club. And today's episode is going to start with a disclaimer. A disclaimer that this episode isn't going to be for everyone. Everyone's probably not going to agree with us wholeheartedly, but this it's our opinion and our opinion only. And at the Anxiety Ridden Moms Club, we pride ourselves in having tough conversations. And that's what today's about. Today is about having tough conversation.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

Yeah, I totally agree. I think that today it's all about um coming together, but in a way that we just have understanding for each other. And I think sometimes that, you know, even we have questions even through this that I hope you guys give us feedback because ultimately we all learn from each other. And if we're talking, and that's how we get better, right? And we understand and maybe learn. We'll learn a little something off of each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Absolutely. And hey, yeah, I mean, learn and my opinion's been changed once. You know, you never know. Anything's anything's possible.

Disclaimer And Respectful Ground Rules

SPEAKER_01 1:32

So we are looking for that feedback. We want to know your thoughts. Um, but we're gonna do it respectfully. And we want you to give those thoughts and opinions respectfully as well. So here it goes. Um this week there is a YouTube, a YouTube influencer or YouTube family, if you will. Um, they go by the hand, or he, the husband, goes by the handle at McJugger Nuggets. Which is questionable in itself, but that's beside the point.

Influencer Shares Trisomy 21 Termination

SPEAKER_01 2:02

No. They have um grown their audience to millions. They share every small and big detail of their life. It is all online. And this week he posted um, it appears the X is his, he does a lot of things on X, formerly known as Twitter, and then and then YouTube, obviously. But his statement was this week, my wife and I made the very difficult decision to terminate the pregnancy, their pregnancy, due to Trisme 21. The choice was not made lightly. We really appreciate all of the personal stories that you guys shared with us, especially the unconditional support we received from fans with no matter what we decided. I know some of you may be very disappointed to hear this news. We are devastated. This has been extremely traumatic for both of us, especially Ashley. She underwent the procedure earlier this week and is on the mend. Thankfully, everything went smoothly, but emotionally, we are drained. Trisomy21, also known as Down syndrome, is caused by an extra chromosome. It is caused by an error in cell division, like a glitch. The odds of a baby having it is one in a thousand. When I first confronted this news, I was shocked but optimistic. If they're a little slow intellectually, then we'll make it work. I signed, signed on to be a parent, come what may, but I just didn't fully understand what Down syndrome entailed. So as you can imagine, there have been so many posts and so many discussions. Um I will start first by saying that I have um a friend, someone I used to work with, that well, I've I've heard lots of stories in in my hometown and different things of some sort of trisomy where the baby doesn't survive. They only live for minutes to hours, sometimes days, because developmentally they're missing key organs and key. So right when I saw the statement, my first step was to go to Chat GPT because I didn't know that Down syndrome was Trisomy 21. So I was like, okay, wait, hold on. Like, are there different forms like trisomy? Obviously, I've learned has there are different numbers that affect different chromosomes and how the the baby so on and so forth. So that was step one for me. Um the comments, I mean, this is spreading like wildfire. The comments are all over the place, but the one most commonly that I I noticed or recognized were parents of Down syndrome children that commenting that they are the greatest thing that's ever happened to them in their life. They bring them so much joy. Uh-huh. So on and so forth.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Um yeah, I do know that you would that these this particular couple was kind of surprised with some of the backlash and criticism that they've been given. Which, I mean, for one, you are going public with a very personal decision. It's very personal for anyone to make those decisions. I mean, I don't know how you wouldn't be surprised. I don't know how you're surprised that you're gonna have a lot of families out there with beautiful Down syndrome children that have done nothing but add joy and and love into their lives. And so they're probably not going to see that as a decision that they should have ever made. I just, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Yes. So I went down the whole rabbit hole. You guys know how I do that last week's episode, and told you I watched 19 documentaries about it and so on and so forth. So obviously I had to go down this rabbit hole. And when they did, I mean, every everything, the pregnancy announcement, like everything has just been in the public eye from the from start to finish. And I know you can get criticized for only showing the good stuff and not the bad stuff. So there is that part, you know, like well, we're here and we're we want you to know what it what real life is like. But I also think there are moments and decisions that are private family decisions that shouldn't happen necessarily raw and on the internet. Like because you have to be careful. They may have done days and months and weeks of research. They may have like we don't, we don't know, because as far as I know, that they didn't share that part of like why or how they came to that decision. Um, I would love to know. But they read like the anatomy scan, like they rela read the genetic testing or the amniocentesis results on YouTube. Oh they there is a video out there of them reading the results, and then she just I mean, breaks down crying and like what? Like, why? Like that is a again, a private family moment that you just blasted for the world. Yeah. That alone bothers the hell out of me. And then, yeah, now it's we're grieving the loss of our child, leave us alone.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

I think that's the part that, yeah, that's the part I don't really understand. I mean, ultimately, I get if you have a following, which I'll be honest, we have never heard of these people. So, I mean, neither. I mean, it's great they have millions and millions, I guess, of followers, but I've never heard of them. And um, they're definitely making uh uh their way around now under the circumstances of what they've chosen to do. And I and I totally agree with you that in social media, ultimately, you know, they want to show their life and it is a part of their life. But there are certain things that you should maybe think about um a little bit differently before you want to post, or you should 100,000 percent expect you're gonna have a lot of opinions on a very, very, very emotional topic, a very serious topic, and definitely people have their opinions on it. Like it's just one of those things that I just I'm I'm kind of surprised that they're surprised. You know, at least if you're gonna do it, then accept it and move on. I mean, it's what you wanted to do. You chose to get on there and discuss it. And now you have families coming out of the woodwork giving you some backlash. But I don't I I don't know. I just kind of think it's pretty naive, I guess, to but I also understand there's a way that they I mean, I understand if you're that public and you obviously are pregnant, and then all of a sudden you do terminate the baby. I mean, you're not gonna be showing them that you're delivering a baby. So there has to be a discussion probably at some point, but I don't know that I would have done it at the moments that they chose. And I don't know. I I I just have a little bit of they got really famous for the wrong reasons, I think.

SPEAKER_05 9:28

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

You know, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Ultimately, for the wrong reasons. Abs absolutely. And and I think people sharing their stories online and sharing their children with Down syndrome in I think that is acceptable criticism. Um, taking it a step further, he states that they've received death threats, that he now sleeps with a gun and um beside his bed and different things. And obviously that that is not okay. No.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

That's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

At the end of the day, whatever state they're in, her body, her choice, right? Um by law, legally, whatever state they're in, it was they they could do that. Um and I don't even know, I don't even know the laws as far as like if there is um an issue with the baby or the baby's not 100% healthy. Like, I don't, I don't even know the abortion laws and how that and how that works. I don't. I don't know. Um, and and that's something that we don't want to do. We don't want to get into the abortion right or wrong discussion. Uh-huh. Um people obviously have their own opinions. I also have mine. Um yes, I and I have mine. And you have yours, and that's okay. It is really, really hard for me, um, knowing that she was 21 weeks along. Um, and I get it. To some people, it's a clump of cells. To me, I had my son at 28 and 5'7, which means 28 weeks and five days. And he is a healthy 15-year-old boy. And to think that I gave birth, so from where she is or was in her pregnancy to the day I gave birth is a short seven weeks apart. So if you do truly believe that it's I get it, okay, like that is your opinion. But I know that at 28 weeks, seven weeks, short a short seven weeks, I had a baby that is a 15-year-old that amazes me every single day. And so for me personally, that is a hard pill. That it's a hard pill to swallow. But again, that's not the, you know, the full point of today's conversation.

Genetic Testing And False Positives

SPEAKER_01 11:48

I also want to talk about the amniocentesis, if I'm saying that right. But the accuracy of the results yes, is only like 50%.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Which I can even I can even say when I was pregnant with my daughter, because I hit that magical age of, you know, getting older, they were like, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

What's that magical age?

SPEAKER_03 12:12

It's 35.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

That's so silly. That is so silly.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

But I was asked if I wanted to have these different tests, you know, would I terminate the baby if the baby did have Down syndrome? But at that point, and which I told them no, I wouldn't, I just personally, for me, personally, whatever God gives me, that's what I'm gonna have. So I never we even had the test, but even at that point in time, my physician even told me that these tests come back positive, false positives a lot. So he's like, so even if we do the test and it comes back positive, I'm just telling you, a lot of times there are false positives. So I wouldn't want you freaking out anyways. So I mean, it's it's obviously it's not something that's very accurate. Now, at the same time, I don't know. Maybe these people went on to do extra testing and they did it, you know what I mean? Because I know it's like, you know, the first, I think it's a blood test, anyways. I never did it. So I don't know. I think it's a blood test that you do um to check it at first. And I mean, uh if it's positive, I would think you would have options then to go on to more testing, and maybe that's what they chose to do with getting the amniotic fluid and stuff like that to verify it. Um, but with that kind of a high of a rate of not being accurate, is to me, mate, would have made it an even harder decision to make because you just don't know. I mean, there's so many stories of women having all sorts of different children. I and this was a while ago, and I'm as we're talking about, I just remember there was a lady who even she was pregnant, and they basically said she'd have enough amniotic fluid in her um uterus, and so she should terminate the baby. And she said absolutely not, she was not for that. She's gonna try to have pregnancy, and if for some reason it terminates during it, then it does. She was gonna she wanted to take the chance and and see what happened. And that baby made it full term. She had a healthy baby with absolutely nothing wrong with it. So, I mean, there's always errors in a lot of different things, but Down syndrome is one for sure that's much more common to not be accurate.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

And that's that's a whole conversation in itself, too. As you mentioned, the testing, like I think regardless of your age at this point in time, you have the option to do the genetic testing. And a lot of people, I think, do it very, very early on, define the gender very, very early on. Um, and it was something that I mean, that alone is a decision that we make as yes, anything we do is all if you want to, and and and for me, that you know, I always want to be prepared and I always want to be a plan. But that that for me was something that I didn't, I was like, See, I'm totally like, I want to know.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

I want to know right now what the sex of this baby is. So I knew always early. I've celebrated at that moment so I could start getting prepared and ready and decorate and all that kind of good stuff. Yeah, I love to know.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Because I don't think it for me. I think that at 20 anyway. But I didn't do the genetic testing because I didn't want to know.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

I didn't if if they had just I I knew for me, I knew, of course, the sex at 20 weights too from the ultrasounds, but I always want to know the sex of the baby. But I didn't care about anything else. I just looked at it as it is what it is. Now, if there was something that was in an ultrasound, and I mean, I know there's all sorts of stories of all sorts of things, and you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

I'm a I'm a religious person. I've been very vocal about being a religious person, and I am a firm believer that God sends you and has his hand in and who you receive. And so that in in my mind, but but but I'm also speaking from a place that I have two fully healthy children. So I don't, I don't, I don't know. I would say from what I'm I've been reading online, is the majority of people that have the, you know, a baby with Down syndrome. Again, I've said it in the beginning of the episode. They say that they can't imagine their life without that human and that they're the most loving, kind, caring. I text you all the time, all the time of um, oh my God, now I'm drawing a blank on their names, but extra chromi homie. Sarah and Emily. Um extra chromi homie. Um it's two sisters, and one of them has Down syndrome.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

And it's just so cute.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Their videos are the joy of my life currently. Like everything they do is is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

And I think it's Sarah and Emily, right?

SPEAKER_03 16:36

I I think that's yeah, I think you're right. I haven't you haven't seen me one actually recently, so I not a hundred percent. I haven't seen them on some. It's kind of weird I haven't seen them lately because normally they pop up at my stuff like every so often. Oh my god. And I haven't seen them lately, but she's so cute. She's so cute. There's actually quite a few that I have that ever that'll you know pop up with siblings and stuff like that, and they're uh just amazing. It's it's just amazing.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Like, they just like genuinely seem to enjoy, and I'm not saying they, I'm saying they, as in Sarah and Emily, like they enjoy every single thing that they they do. And Sarah is a lesbian, and um she's a divorced lesbian, and her sister has a lot to say about that. I mean, so I they I they have me rolling. Like they'll do um Get Readies with Me, where Sarah's getting ready, and then the one with Down syndrome is like giving her commentary on what she's doing, and it is it's the it's the fucking funniest thing I've ever seen. I just love it. I love it, I love it.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Um there's so many that seriously I think bring a lot of joy to other people's lives. Even just like for us to watch them on TikTok brings us so much joy. I just think that it's I think that's why for me the subject is just kind of a hard one. There's I understand years and years and years ago, that we didn't have the resources, we didn't have the the the availability of things to even help the families as much as what we do now. I mean, it's a whole new world to help and give people the support that they need. That we see this all the time with families with Down syndrome children who are wonderful lights of their life. And I just I think that's why this subject on this particular couple has even blown up even larger because of what we all get to what witness and see and be a part of anymore. That, you know, many, many years back, obviously people weren't as familiar and um weren't able to, they didn't experience so they don't really understand it. We do understand now. We do have resources, we do have people who who can support and help and make great things and and have wonderful lives with

Down Syndrome Joy And Modern Support

SPEAKER_03 18:55

these people that bring such joy. I just, I don't know. They're they just bring a lot of joy, I feel like. And everyone I ever get to watch on TikTok, they all make me smile. Every single family all makes me smile, all of them.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

1000%.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

They are just amazing.

The Follow Up Statement Backfires

SPEAKER_01 19:09

So the next touching on the feedback that they've been getting, so the next statement that they made was to all my fans who have weighed in on this topic, who have autism or Down syndrome or any other conditions, we appreciate you. You something. I can't read that because there's, I don't know, my print screen didn't work right. You might have you probably should have pre-read this. It's what it says, you matter a lot. I'm like, what is that M word anyway? Oh my gosh. You matter a lot, and we're glad you're here. I commend you and your families for having the strength and courage to push forward. As for us, we made a difficult decision that we believe in the long run will be bit beneficial for our family. Thankfully, we had a choice. It will take a little time to move on, but we are excited to try again in the future and hopefully have a better outcome. Love you guys and thank you for understanding.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Yeah, I don't like that statement in so many ways. I find it I don't like that statement in so many ways, but that's just my opinion. I don't think it was very either. It was in poor taste, my personal opinion.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

How will this be beneficial to you and your family in the future? You had a choice, you made your choice. But please tell me because you won't I guess because you won't have to I can't. In my hand, that's that that one's hard for me.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

Yeah, that's done in very poor taste. I can say that. That's for sure. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

It's like I say, this is such a well, and that one didn't work out, so hopefully in the future it does. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. At least be respectful to the life. Yes. And that for that for me, that statement does not come across as respectful to the life that has been lost. And furthermore, you've now recorded this on the internet. And little Kylie here in Illinois has it on her phone. When you have the next child, this is all things that they can drag up and see one day. Or that some little asshole in middle school can be like talks about and then they find out about the sibling that they could have had and don't have.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

I don't know. It's everything about it just yeah. I don't I don't like it. And I and that is the bad thing about there's great things about social media and not so much as well. And I just think that that's like I say, I think every That that the way that they've gone about it. Again, I think that their decisions are personal decisions. There's everybody has a right to make their own decisions for their families, however that may be. I just think that they've done some things and I don't know. So we ready for the next statement? Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Because it was just like that. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

And the train wreck you can't look away from.

Online Hate Death Threats And Faith

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Here it is. I've never seen such hate or I fucking still can't say this word. Vitroil. V-I-T-R-I-O-L. I need someone to give me a vocabulary lesson. Also, clearly, if you've been paying attention to this podcast for a long time, you know that I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

I know.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

So shout me out when I make these. I I don't know the words. I've never claimed to be an English professor. I actually, that's what made me drop out of college was a fucking English course. Reading and fuck I can't. If it doesn't say fuck, it's not, I don't know how it works. I'm just okay. Anyway, skipping that word.

SPEAKER_05 23:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

I've never seen such hate and a word I don't know. For two people grieving the loss of their unborn child and making an impossible decision. The last 24 hours have exposed a side of humanity that is deeply disturbing, being called murderous pieces of shit, evil compared to Hitler, and receiving nonstop death threats. Seeing my six-year-old dog with stage four kidney disease be used as a weapon, manipulating my words and intent in a tweet or saying we'll regret this decision forever and must repent to God is absolute insanity. If you've ever wanted to marvel at the depravity of people online, just check the replies on my latest tweet. It's a shit show of epic proportions. This is reflective of the current world and landscape we're all living in. What's more troubling is a lot of these people use God or Jesus as their justification for threatening us and wanting to cast us into hell. Seems pretty hypocritical. The only thing that this motherfucker has said that I've agreed with.

SPEAKER_03 24:15

Yeah, I agree with that. That is I will say, okay. One thing I will say that I have I same as you, you know, I am very much have a strong faith in in God. But he also makes it clear that he will pass the judgment that's not for us to do. So I wasn't, but that's why I look at it like this. At the end of the day, I don't think anybody should be giving them death threats, telling them they're going to hell, any of those things. I do think that there's a place to talk about the fact that they may regret a decision at some point in time. I think that there's a lot of people in this world who have probably made different decisions, especially along the lines of abortion, I think, that probably do have some regrets. But again, I think it's a that's their personal journey. It's for them to go through. And I don't think it's I can here's the thing is I guess at the end of the day, you know, as I'm talking about judging, and we are somewhat judging them, but I judge them more in their if this is tasteful or not, and the way that they're sharing it, more than the fact of what they decided for their family. I know that the decisions I would make obviously would be different. I wouldn't abort a Down syndrome child ever. I mean, I just wouldn't. There's no way. I mean, I would I would feel that that's what God gave me and that's what we're gonna have. I mean, I could have children missing limbs, I could have children with a all sorts of different things that can happen. I mean, I just personally would never ever, ever do that. So I can say for me, it's definitely not the right decision. That doesn't mean that it's for me to tell them what they should or should not do, and ultimately it's I nobody deserves death threats over that. But you also should also realize you put this all over the internet. So, I mean, there are people in the world that unfortunately give their opinions way too strongly and invades and get ridiculous. When if you do believe in God at the end of the day and you really do believe that somehow or another that that's gonna create them those issues, I mean, that's then let God do his job if that's what you believe in. I mean, you know what I'm saying? I I don't think that's for us to to know. I don't know what's gonna happen when I get there for sure. I don't know what discussions that I'm gonna have when I meet Jesus. So you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Like we just had that. Brad and I just had that conversation yesterday. And I said, I am holding strong that there's a holding place for those who aren't quite ready for the pearly gates. Yes, I'm gonna do that. I really and and and and when you have faith, you have to believe in because you don't know. You don't grown up, think I've grown up learning about purgatory, and my God, I hope that there is a purgatory, a place where you know.

SPEAKER_03 26:54

Yeah, and I definitely can see that it just takes a little extra time for somebody, you know, but that doesn't mean you're going to hell either. You know what I'm saying? It's just right, I don't know. It's not our decision to make. It's not our decision to make. It's for when you get there, you get there, but it's not for me to condemn someone or anything like that. I don't, I don't agree with any of that at all.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

And I am going to say this.

Where Do You Draw The Line

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Again, everyone has an opinion.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Everyone is has a right to their opinion. I am not saying that I'm right or wrong. I'm saying that I have an opinion. And for me, the and I don't, I know I don't want to get deep into an abortion conversation. But for me, and I feel like this is relevant with the Down syndrome conversation, where do you draw the line? Because I have a friend that has a deaf child. So that's if I have a baby that's deaf or blind, I can't murder them. Right. But I guess what it comes down to, and from what I've learned and researched, is that some people don't believe that the baby has rights or is alive until they're born. I think, I think that's where that's where the uh argument comes. Her body, her choice, and it's not a human being. Um I don't know. Again, when we when we started this episode, we talked about let us know. I would love to, you know, I would love to know your thoughts. From me, I had a baby and he lived outside of the womb before he was supposed to. And so that's where it's hard for me. And I'm I I'm not trying to be judgmental by any means. I just don't understand it. And literally laying in bed last night when we were talking about this episode and prepping for this episode, that's what came to mind is how do where do you draw the line? As far as abortion, we don't like late-term abortion. We don't like this abortion, you know what I mean? And then I and I did. So if I have a deaf child, a blind child, or a child that's missing an arm, I can't take them out back. So, like that for me is where the morality call clause comes in, is just like, where do you draw the line?

SPEAKER_03 29:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Yes. What if it took them a couple months to have this? You know what I'm saying? Like it just, and that that is that is tough for me. It is tough.

SPEAKER_06 29:19

Uh-huh.

unknown 29:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

So he closes, he closes with saying, so many saying they would have kept the child, put it up for adoption, or suddenly ready to adopt a Down syndrome child. That's great with an exclamation point. You can do all of those things. However, many of the people throwing stones don't even have children, let alone one with a condition, and most likely will most likely will never do the things that they say they're going to. There has been some heinous shit said about my wife and I on some extremely large accounts. It baffles me that there are such trashy ass people who have significant followings. If you can't contribute anything mean meaningful to the conversation aside from the insults, then just don't post.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

Which I I I'll be honest with you, I agree with him on that as well. I mean, like I said, I think that people a lot of times feel that um the need to pass a judgment on everyone when I think really it just comes down to again, ultimately you just all have opinions. Okay.

Termination Versus Miscarriage Language

SPEAKER_05 30:29

So on Facebook now, and I would try to show you for those who are who watch us on video.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Have you noticed, and I hope you've noticed, but Gina, you um you're questionable sometimes. I don't know if you can see this. But on Facebook now, when you get on Facebook, it defaults to home. And when you go through home, you get for any reality TV stars, I would love to have a whole episode on Amanda and West, but that's beside the point. When you you get all kinds of random shit popping up now, and you don't even have to follow it. And it just says follow. You have to go down and click friends. Friends, yep. To get your friends' feed or people that you follow. All of that to say is these next couple of of clips, these aren't from people I follow. These are just things that have popped up because I was I was down the rabbit hole of this whole this whole conversation. The Robbie, the Robbie Harvey account, which again, I'm I'm preferencing this that this isn't the account, like I don't follow this person. This is just stuff that popped up, probably relevant to, well, yeah, revel relevant to what I've been researching. But the at the Robbie Harvey said, You didn't lose your unborn child. You terminated it. Termination and miscarriages are not the same. No. Peak narcissism right here. That one made me think. Because he does say, I've never seen such hate for two people grieving the loss of their unborn child and making an impossible decision. They did make an impossible decision. Our opinion is that they should have done it in the privacy of their own home. But they didn't.

SPEAKER_03 32:16

And they didn't need to share all everything. They didn't need to share it. It's not necessary to share their entire story. You could still say that you lost a child. Nobody even needs to know why. It's a personal thing in our family. It's not something we're up for discussion for. It's very devastating, whatever, and move on.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

That's where I probably wouldn't have had the res the results of the amniocentesis online to where the whole world found out that my child had Down syndrome when I had Down syndrome. Because while some people people will say, like, that's that's not telling the whole story, then if you just say you lost this child and you don't give any explanation, but like but they also don't owe the entire world explanations on everything in their life. And I wouldn't protect your wife, dude. Like if this is a this like that you guys want to have, but you guys are but and I'm and and she had obviously she was on camera. I don't think he was holding her against her will, but like she has all kinds of hormones and different things going on. And I don't whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever. But I am going to a hill that I will stand on, die on. It's not a miscarriage.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

No. That was a decision that you made. It is a choice that you made. You had a right to a choice. Either way, no matter how you look at it, that was a choice. That's not like the people who wake up and all of a sudden they're running to the hospital. Right. So totally different.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

While you did lose a child.

SPEAKER_03 33:42

Yes. And why there's still there is still devastation to that. So I would never say even anybody who makes those choices, it's not that it's not devastating to make that decision either. Um I was, you know, I I understand that um it's hard to do that, but it's that's not like I'm going along having this baby, and all of a sudden what is going on, and you're having a miscarriage. That's you didn't make that choice. So it's a lot, it's there is still there's a difference in those two.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

And I and I would love to hear from someone that's been down the adoption path too.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

Um because you look into for um adopting Down syndrome children, like see a movie. Honestly, never I mean, I've never been in a situation to need to adopt or or or look into it really or anything. And um, even when like he said people are all saying that, it I understand he's coming from a defensive aspect where he's even saying, Oh, you guys want to say that you're gonna do it, but yet none of you are doing it, or you don't even have any children. So who are you to say anything? You never even raised a child, let alone one.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

And while you're not wrong, while you're not wrong, respectfully shut the fuck up. At this point, just grieve, do what you and move on. You made the decision, it was your decision to make. People are weighing in because you also made the decision to discuss it publicly, very, very publicly. At some point, grieve, go through all of the emotions, but shut the fuck up for a minute. Give it a second, give take your time to do what you need to do. But I feel like it's like at the this point we've got the shovel and we just keep digging our grave. I think so. I think it's time to shut up.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

But I mean, that's the one thing is you gotta know when it's enough talking. I think he said enough. You've said you've said your piece, you shared what you wanted to share. You're not going to change people's opinions. No. Just like we're not gonna change anybody's minds of of the way we think. I'm not, I'm not here to change anybody's mind and believe in what I believe in. I just think you just have to look at it that way. Whatever you share, at the end of the day, people can disagree with me on my decisions that I make in my life of whatever. That doesn't mean I'm gonna change or do anything different. If that's what I believe in, that's what I'm gonna do. And you have a right to tell, you know, if I'm gonna put it out there for an opinion, it's just like if I walked out and asked somebody their opinion, they give it, and then all of a sudden I'm like, well, I don't like that opinion, so now I have a problem. I mean, I shouldn't have asked for it to begin with, but that's literally what they were doing is saying, So what do you guys think of this one?

SPEAKER_01 36:20

I mean, that is me and that is my personality. I ask for your opinion and I don't really want it. Um I get my feelings hurt.

SPEAKER_03 36:27

But then you can get your feelings hurt and go mope for a little bit and then come back and move on. I mean, like that's just that's that's where I'm at.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

Like I I am totally the type of person that would put something out there, and then when I don't get the feedback exactly like I wanted it, I would get my feelings hurt. But at this point, I would lay down and I would take a moment and I would gather myself and I would come back with a different with a different topic, you know?

SPEAKER_03 36:49

Yeah, that's what I would do. I would just like look at us, it's time to move on. I don't want to talk about this anymore on social media. I don't need to sit around and like defend anything. It's what you believed was right for the two of you, then leave it alone.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

And I I truly believe it might be I and I shouldn't say that, but maybe guilt. Maybe he can't let it go trying to defend himself because he's trying to defend it in his mind. I don't know. I'm just saying like it it keeps going.

SPEAKER_03 37:23

On and on and on. Um And it could be, but I think it's also it's a very emotional subject that I don't think he should have shared. But since he did decide to share it, I think he probably is maybe he didn't think that people would come out of the woodwork to say as much as they've said. But if you have millions of followers, you gotta know you're gonna have a percentage of them that have an opinion about that that doesn't exactly match with yours. And he can sit around and critique the people who don't have kids and what they have to say, but again, everybody has a right to say whatever, just like he had a right to get on there and share his story.

Monetizing Grief And Community Harm

SPEAKER_01 38:01

I did share, I did save this one post because it kind of rang loud to me. Um, it was from Aaron Singerman. I don't know this person. Again, it just popped up. I don't follow this person. It just said, I'm sure I'll make some people mad. I don't care. As a parent of a Down syndrome child, I'm going to weigh in on this. Let's be crystal clear. This has nothing to do with pro-life, pro-choice, or any political agenda. This is about a man who stood in front of the world, made sweeping, ignorant declarations about an entire group of human beings, and then monetized the announcement.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

And I feel like that is That is what bothers me about the entire thing.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

And that's what we've been saying from the start. This isn't about pro-life, pro-choice, or any political agenda. It's about someone who stood in front of the world making Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 38:49

Because everybody has those rights. Everybody has those rights to make the decisions that they want to make. It's totally, but you I think he's been offensive the way I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

So she quotes Jesse Ridgeway said, Down syndrome is not a blessing. It's objectively shitty. That's in quotes from him. That he said Down syndrome is not a blessing, it's objectively shitty. Say that out loud and let it sink in. Down syndrome is not a blessing, it's objectively shitty. He didn't whisper it in private. He published it proudly as if it were research, as if it were fact, as if the thousands of families raising children with Down syndrome children who laugh, love, connect, and thrive simply don't exist or don't count. That is not an informed opinion. That is embarrassing ignorance on a public stage. This data is not hidden. It is not hard to find. Individuals with Down syndrome consistently report happiness with their lives, their families, by overwhelming majority report that their child has made their family better, not worse. These are not feel-good stories, these are documented outcomes. He didn't look any of that up. He didn't talk to those families. He made a decision based on fear and misinformation. And then he turned on the camera and made money off of it. That child's death became content. That is what does deserves a condemnation here. Not political position, not a debate about reproductive rights. A man who broadcast his ignorance to the world, slandered an entire community of a beautiful of beautiful human beings. That's what's disgusting to me. That guy said that so beautifully. What makes this worse? What makes this worse is that the Ridgeways chose to monetize this decision. They turned the termination of the child's life into content, into clicks, into a platform moment. That child deserved dignity and death, not a sponsored announcement. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 40:54

That shit kept me up last night. And then he gave a picture of there.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

Oh my birth announcement. See, that's that that was not you couldn't have written that more be that that is very eloquently written. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Gina's like, you should have just read that at the beginning of the episode and then we could have shut the hell up.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

Yes, but I think that's it's exactly right. You were he was it's so offensive to me what he has said and and put out there and acting like it's just horror. I mean, obviously he's they have never experienced or been around anyone with Down syndrome in their lives. That's their lack of education.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

It is their choice. They didn't want to live that life. But they didn't want to take on a baby as fucking.

SPEAKER_03 41:42

And don't, right? But on top of it, don't be offensive. I mean, we what are you trying to offend an entire, like you said, uh a whole population of people? You're I don't know. I think the the way that they went about this is just not right. I just don't think it's right. I don't think it's uh and I and I'm you know, I don't know anything about these people. Maybe their c their content obviously has brought positive things to people's lives to have millions of people listening to them and paying attention to them. So I mean, obviously there's something enjoyable about them. It's not like they're, you know, the worst people on earth or something. It's just I think this particular topic is something that they should have made had made some different decisions on. Maybe had somebody helping them a little bit more with this. Uh even their coming back and discussions, they probably should somebody else weighing in to help them guide them in the manner that they're going about this. It's just all you've done is just offend the offensive to other people more because you feel that people are wrong to have their opinion of what you've done. And that and I have my opinion of that too. I mean, like I like I said, I just think that there's so many people you get on the internet and all of a sudden it's really easy to be ignorant behind a computer. You know, I can't, I think you're this, this, and this click.

unknown 42:58

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 42:59

I just think there's so many people that think the internet is just it's a safe place to get behind a keyboard and say whatever you want. And I I but but anyway, he he knows this going into it. You have millions of followers, you already know this. You cannot tell me he's never had any negative comments. Any negative feedback ever. Come on. I mean, just come on. I don't know. Just so sad. The whole thing's sad to me, but it's also because those are my views and opinions. It doesn't make I don't have any, I mean, people have every right to make the decisions they want to make, and I it's not none of my business at all. None of my business. I don't need to know about it until you want to make it our business and talk about it and then be offensive to everybody. I just think it's you gotta stop.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

You gotta stop, my friend. Stop. Stop talking at this point, walk away. Silence is golden. Whatever you gotta do. Yeah, move on. Stop. Go back to your content. Because then I'm not saying death threats are right. No, I that's uh I mean more pissed. Pissing people off at this point. You are pissing people off. And you gotta stop because it's not working. Your justification. There are people in this world that it does not matter what you say, they will never agree with your justification of of what just happened.

SPEAKER_03 44:18

So there's no point. There's a lot of discussions we can have that you're never gonna get anywhere, change anybody's mind. So move on. Move on. Time to end.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

I have to think that you guys have a lot to talk about and discuss and other things to, you know. Yeah. Definitely. Maybe something is their livelihood.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

And and even if it is if it is, even more reason why it's just time to move on. I mean, you just need to move on. You've you've had maybe you need to take, you know, a little bit of time and then readjust and go back to what you were whatever it is that they were posting before, which like I tell you, I know nothing about. Never seen them.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

You neither probably start popping up now. Yeah, I don't know where they're from.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

I don't know I don't know anything about them. I don't know I really don't feel like I'm uh in the right to pass any judgment on people. I have no clue about anything about them. Leave the judging to Jesus. Yes. That's just how I look at it. Is at the end of the day, you can everybody's gotta make their own decisions.

unknown 45:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

That's what life's all about.

Final Takeaways And Next Week Preview

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Well, I think that's how we end this episode. Yes. Leave the judging to Jesus. Right. And I want to say that, and things change. Things do change, but next week we're gonna have some fun. Next week I've got, I'm gonna be like a firing squad and I'm gonna ask Gina some completely ass random questions.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

Um that I have no clue what it is that she's up to. So it should be, it should be interesting, to say the least. No, yeah, she has no idea.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

So as an anxious mom, I will not be prepped in any way. In any way. As an anxious mom, things pop into my head or like a situation will come up, and like my my mind goes a thousand miles an hour, like best case scenario, worst case scenario. What about this? And like I've decided that in those moments, I've started documenting some of the questions that my mind asks. And I'm gonna like fire squad them at you and get your reaction and and opinions to that. And it's gonna be so much fun. Oh Lord.

SPEAKER_03 46:22

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Yeah. But it will be fun. It'll be kind of interesting because I know your brain is like a mile a minute, so we'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

Yes. So this episode was a little, it was a little bit deeper. It's a lot, it's a lot to think about, a lot to digest. Next week, don't worry. We will have, we will come back with with some some fun and some laughs to be had.

SPEAKER_03 46:45

Yes, yes. Because this episode I think is just about thinking things through and just I don't know. There's a lot to think about. Everybody should think about these things and and be discussing in their families what's right for them. Exactly. Exactly. Well, that's a wrap.

SPEAKER_05 47:00

Alrighty, see you later.

SPEAKER_03 47:08

Thanks for spending time with us.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Take what you need, leave what you don't, and be gentle with yourself. And if you want to stay connected, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok at the ARMC. And remember, you're not broken, you're becoming. We'll see you next time.