The Shame Spiral in Motherhood: How to Break It - with Emily Hughes

In this episode, I’m joined by conscious parenting coach and somatic practitioner Emily Hughes from Finding Flow Parenting.

When we first spoke, she said something that stopped me in my tracks:

“I see far less guilt in parents… and far more shame.”

Not “I did something wrong” - but
“Something is wrong with me.”

And that distinction matters more than we realise.

Because shame doesn’t just sit at the surface.
It lives in the body.
It shapes how we respond to our children.
And it can quietly define how we see ourselves as mothers.

In this conversation, we explore what’s really going on beneath those moments where we lose our temper, spiral into self-criticism, or question whether we’re “cut out” for motherhood.

In this episode, we cover:

• The crucial difference between guilt and shame - and why so many mothers skip straight to shame
• How core beliefs like “I’m not good enough” or “I’m failing” drive the shame spiral
• Why shame thrives in secrecy - and begins to dissolve in connection
• The role of the nervous system in parenting triggers and emotional overwhelm
• How neurodiversity and sensitivity can intensify experiences of shame
• The concept of belonging as a buffer to shame - for both mothers and children
• Why rupture is inevitable in family life - and how repair builds deeper connection
• The link between self-acceptance and how we parent our children
• Practical ways to regulate in the moment (even when you’ve completely lost it)
• Somatic tools (including movement and awareness) to release shame from the body

A key insight from this conversation:

Shame isn’t just psychological - it’s physiological.

Emily describes it as an “implosion in the body” - something we feel, not just think.

Which means we can’t just “mindset” our way out of it.

We have to work with the body too.

Why this episode matters

If you’ve ever:

• Snapped at your child and immediately felt like a terrible mother
• Spiralled into self-blame after a difficult moment
• Wondered why some parenting struggles feel so personal

…this episode will help you understand why.

And more importantly, how to respond differently.

About Emily Hughes

Emily Hughes is a conscious parenting coach and somatic practitioner, supporting parents who feel overwhelmed, triggered, or stuck in challenging family dynamics.

Her work focuses on creating “de-shaming spaces” for parents — helping them understand their nervous systems, build emotional awareness, and parent from a place of connection rather than reactivity.

Find Emily:
Website
Instagram

Work with me

If this conversation resonated, and you’re ready to change your relationship with guilt (and shame) at a deeper level:

→ Book a free 60-minute Motherload Breakthrough Call
This is an application-only call for mothers who are ready to step into coaching and do the work - not a quick advice session, but a space to explore whether 1:1 Reframe coaching is right for you. Email me for the link to apply - belinda@theflourishingmother.com

→ Buy my book Challenge Your Guilt
A practical and compassionate guide to understanding and overcoming maternal guilt.

→ Subscribe to my weekly newsletter
For deeper reflections, tools, and conversations on motherhood, identity, and flourishing.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You're listening to Challenge Your Guilt with me, Belinda Jane Patt, maternal guilt expert, positive psychology coach, and author of Challenge Your Guilt: How to Flourish in Motherhood, Work and Life. This is a podcast for mothers ready to stop internalising guilt and start flourishing in every aspect of life. Let's dismantle maternal guilt, one conversation at a time.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Good morning and welcome to another episode of Challenge Your Guilt, the podcast. Today I am joined by Emily Hughes, a conscious parenting coach and somatic practitioner who works with parents feeling stuck, overwhelmed, and quietly questioning whether they're cut out for this whole parenting thing. Emily supports couples and individuals navigating challenging dynamics, often in families where there's high nervous system activation, big emotions, or neurodiversity in the mix. Alongside conscious parenting, she's trained in somatic therapy, which means she doesn't just explore what parents think, she works with what their bodies are holding to. When we first spoke, something she said really stayed with me. She told me that in her work she sees less guilt and far more shame. Not I did something wrong, but there's something wrong with me. So today we're exploring that space, the point where parenting challenges stop feeling situational and start feeling personal. Why some parents seem to bypass guilt entirely and land straight in shame, how nervous system activation and neurodiversity can intensify that spiral, and crucially, how we create boundaries around shame so it doesn't define us. This is a conversation about self-compassion, embodiment, and what it really takes to buffer ourselves against the cultural and internal pressures of modern parenting. So let's dive in. Welcome, Emily. Thanks so much for having me. It's lovely to have you. I'm very excited about this conversation because obviously we're both working in this area, and shame is something that I talk about a lot in my work and my book and see a lot with my coaching clients. But but I would love to sort of hear in your own voice a little bit more about uh what you see in the work that you're doing and how it is that that you think that a lot of the parents that you're working with are jumping straight to shame? I'm really curious.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

Well, I see one of the things that is fundamental to my practice as a coach is to create de shaming safe spaces. That's just this word came to me, you know, when you're in a workshop and people say something like, uh, it was a question like, what do you think is the core aim of your work? And it just came to me to create de-shaming safe spaces. And I think I'm particularly drawn to that because I'm someone who throughout my whole life has been quite sensitive to shame. And I think that really shame dies when we look at it and embrace it and talk about it, and shame thrives when we allow it to grow in the shadows.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Yes, that's perfect, perfectly expressed. And I think shame when we connect with each other, and that's I guess I like what Brene Brown says in terms of shame being at the opposite end of the spectrum from empathy, and the fact that we need connection to be able to overcome it. So those are some key things that I've always had top of mind. Uh, and so I think it completely aligns with what you're saying that we need to bring shame out of the shadows and acknowledge uh I always call shame the dark guilt's darker sibling because I think you know, as much as we feel we can feel guilt in our parenting journey and our lives in general, uh, shame is is is that darker kind of part of ourselves, isn't it? And it and it really comes from well, where do you think it comes from? I I think a lot of it can come from our conditioning and our childhood conditioning and um perhaps the way that we've been modelled self-compassion and empathy and all of those things. And from an early age, perhaps we have some of us have been more inclined to attribute um, you know, what we see as failings to real failings, true deep failings within ourselves, like the core of ourselves. What what do you think your kind of origins of shame are as you see them?

SPEAKER_03 4:26

I think shame thrives when inner worth is shaky. And if you have a core limiting belief lurking in the shadows that really at its core says I am bad, then shame will find a way to poke into that. Whereas if you have a core life-affirming belief that I am inherently good, I'm inherently worthy, then that is gonna buffer you from shame. And so many of the clients that I work with, when you really get down to it, you know, it's just I'm fundamentally not good enough, is the core limiting belief. And another one is I'm failing, and these two things come up so much in my coaching with clients. I'm failing, I'm not good enough. And these are shame narratives, and they're really also quite fixed mindset narratives, too. And another way to release ourselves from shame is to have more of a growth mindset of anything is possible, and I can learn and grow, and those are real antidotes to shame.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

It's very hard, isn't it, to switch into that growth mindset? I think I I also wonder with the clients that you're working with who have those fixed mindsets around shame and internalizing things as this personal failure, it does it make it like a double shame experience when you realize that you're passing those traits on to your children.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

Yeah, and I think one of the things is that when we're in shame, often because it is such an intensely overwhelming physical and mental experience, often we are quick to shame others. And it goes a bit like this this feels intensely painful, and I want to make it stop. So I'm gonna try and deflect some of this pain onto you. And you know, of course, we don't do that intentionally, but it's happening so fast within our bodies and within our reactivity that sometimes it's hard to stop. And you know, I think the reason why I became a parent coach because we was because I started to realize that I was using shame as a tactic. I actually remember saying to my husband that I wanted my child to feel shame when he was about two or three, which looking back on it, I mean maybe that sounds like a completely bizarre thing to say, but that's where I was. I wanted his behaviour to shake to change, and I was using shame or trying to use shame and fear in order to do that, and it was not working, and that's really why I really realized I needed help and I needed to change the pathway of my life for myself, but also for him, and you know, really for my like entire future lineage, because otherwise this was never gonna stop. It's just like a perpetual cycle of shame, and really I've had to do the work to now make sure that should my kids have kids, they will hopefully not feel like they need to go into that cycle.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

You've you've reminded me of uh an incident we had a couple of years ago when we were staying in a rental house and my daughter was having a real moment of dysregulation, and I can't remember the specifics, but I know that she was really, really angry and she would not come down to dinner. And the protest from her was to get into her bed, her bunk bed, and deliberately we in her bed when I was telling her to come down, and I was so angry because we were leaving the next day and we didn't have a you know waterproof sheet on that bed and all the rest of it. I was so angry that I called her a bad girl. I mean, I like it, you know, it just came out. And she talked about that, she dined off that for a very long time, that that moment, because and obviously in that moment, I was filled with shame because I thought I I've never wanted to be a mother who shames her children, you know, and I I did it and I used the word bad girl, and she was so upset. And for months afterwards, even after we had had very clear conversations about mummy said that in the moment that you, you know, you absolutely are not a bad girl. I'm sorry, I will never say it again, and I have never said it again. She's she really still kept coming back to that, you know, for months and months afterwards, and I felt awful about it. Um, so yeah, I I guess you know, I I would love to know how you start the process of working with parents to deconstruct this kind of shame narrative because I mean, even in my experience, it runs deep. And actually, one further point is that even as a a more well, I don't know, am I a more conscious parent? Who knows? But you know, the work I'm doing makes me consciously parent, you know, a lot and really think about what I'm doing. I really try to to not put any shame narrative on my children because I can I know how damaging it can be. And yet sometimes I still see traits in them of, you know, particularly my son, actually, my my almost eight-year-old son, I sometimes do see him jumping quite quickly to shame.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

And I don't know how, and and I, and then, and then of course, the reaction is that I internalise that and think, well, I'm obviously doing something wrong as a parent here because I'm trying to not give them the shame narrative, and yet they and yet he seems to sometimes be jumping to that. Does that, you know, where am I going wrong if if I'm consciously trying to not do it, but it's still happening? So I wonder if there's any any advice you could give me or you know, around that.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Well, I would say kids who are sensitive are also going to be sensitive to shame. And really the buffer that we can give our children there is healthy beliefs and emotional intelligence, because those two things are going to buffer them from shame, and also a really core thing is belonging, because belonging is the antidote, a core antidote to shame, because if we feel like we deeply belong in our families, then anything is possible for us. And so often I really think there's this link with shame to our deepest, darkest fear as humans, which is banishment. Banishment is almost worse than death. And this is what you know, in our tribal ancestral past, yeah, in our tribal ancestral past, to be banished from the tribe was the worst punishment that you could be given, because then you'd be like alone in the wilderness with tigers and bears, and you know, particularly as a mother, this becomes really um sensitive because if you were a parent in our ancestral past and you were banished from your tribe, you and your child would not be able to survive. And it's this kind of visceral core sort of memory over our ancestral past of banishment. And the antidote to that is feeling like we belong, unconditional belonging, like we unconditionally belong in our families. Um, but also just you know being aware that like shame exists, and there's some healthy functions of shame, because the healthy function of shame is to try to keep us belonging in the group. It's like a guardrail, like a boundary on our behavior, right? That we wouldn't do anything particularly outrageous or you know mean because we wouldn't want to go into shame because that would put us out of the group. Um, so shame is always gonna be in the realm, but it's having that kind of core thing that brings us home, which is belonging, which is gonna stop us from the most intensely painful expressions of shame.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Wow, that is an incredibly powerful way of looking at it. And uh again, it it brings something up for me which I have observed recently, and it really speaks to what you've just said, which is that my daughter, she's only five, so you know, at this stage, we are very much in a situation where when we feel triggered, we uh lash out, you know, and say things that we don't mean. But when we're five years old, you know, that's that's kind of normal. And my son, obviously being nearly eight, very much struggles with some of the things that she says in those moments of trigger being triggered. Um, and one of those things, which really speaks to what you've just been talking about, that fear of banishment and abandonment and not being and not having that belonging, which I have observed makes him more upset than any other insult that she ever throws at him, is that when she's really, really furious, sometimes she says, You don't deserve a family. And the other day, and I, you know, she does not mean it. She does not mean it. She's just like she's click, you know, she's going through her brain and coming out with the things that she feels the worst, you know, like the horrible meanest thing. Because in that moment, she's just here, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 14:10

That one.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah, she but in that in that meet in that moment, she's just feeling so, you know, I get it, it's really primal. She's feeling really under threat and attacked, and she just wants to throw out anything that she knows will upset. But I have observed him the impact that one statement has has on him above all else, has been extremely upsetting, like to witness. And and for me, and I think that really speaks to what you've said. It really that massively resonates with me when you said that. I thought, because it's it is exact, it speaks to that exact fear of not belonging. And I've had to spend quite some time calming him down and saying, you know, she does not know what she's saying, and she does not mean it, and you will always belong in this family, and you know, but that yeah, that's a very powerful observation. Any any tips on that one?

SPEAKER_03 14:56

Well, I think also, and and I think I love the phrase you deeply belong in this family. It's a nice one to say when your child is in that sort of very sleepy state before bed, and that's a really great time of day to get core fundamental beliefs into your child's subconscious when they're in that kind of cozy, sleepy bedtime thing. And you're gonna sound a little bit robotic, but saying some of these clunky phrases like you deeply belong in this family, like I'm glad that you're here, things like that. Um, but yeah, I think another thing is about acceptance because many people grew up in families where they knew they were loved, love was not in question, but were they accepted? Were they accepted for their truest, most authentic self without having to do anything to be accepted, without having to prove themselves, were they accepted for their flaws, for their quirks, for things that maybe made life inconvenient for other people? And this is the thing, I think true belonging comes with love and acceptance. And one of the ways that we can tune into acceptance is actually starting with ourselves, because we cannot fully accept our child if we have a sticky relationship with accepting ourselves. And I use this very clunky, very unscientific tool in my uh coaching called the acceptance omata. And the acceptance omata is like a zero would be I completely don't accept this person. I wish they were a different person. Harsh. A five would be I accept this person, but I find aspects of them very tricky and I wish they would change. And a 10 would be I completely and wholly accept this person, acceptance is not in doubt. And I invite the families that I work with to rate how much they accept themselves on the acceptance omiter and how much they accept their children, and those numbers are often the same. So often, if a parent's really struggling to accept their child, if it's like a three on the acceptance omiter, it'll often be that they only accept themselves a three as well. And really the journey to acceptance and de shaming is to work on the blocks, the barriers, the fears that are keeping them from accepting themselves more deeply so that they can accept their children more deeply. And that is at the heart of deshaming.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Oh my god, this is this is such powerful wisdom, and I'm trying to absorb it whilst also m staying uh part of the conversation because it's just it runs so deep, and you can see it the way that it runs through the family, the you know, from the parents down to the children, and I'm just thinking about all the the ways that I can see it in my own family, and it really is just such a powerful thing to think about. Um, I mean, even just to share another example, we had we had another episode of knits in our house last night, and this is the third one in three weeks, and it's beginning to send me actually a little bit mad. I don't know how many people listening to this or you you yourself like have experienced knits repeatedly, just it actually makes you feel like you're losing your mind slightly when you have it because you're not quite sure if it's actually there or not. You know, it it like treating children in my experience, treating children for knits is one of the most, you know, stressful things that you can do. They absolutely hate it. We got in, they got in the bath last night. I put all the stuff in all of our hair because my head was itching and I was convinced that we we must all have it. And um the kids started fighting, and I absolutely just lost my temper because I because I the stuff was in their hair, I needed to do the knit comb in their hair and my hair. You know, we had this ridiculous five-minute timer on and all the rest of it. And I completely lost my temper. And it it that that feeling of shame you get when you actually lose it, you know, fully, completely lose it. Like I have lost control of the situation. Uh, everyone is crying. My, you know, particularly my son, who's he definitely, you know, has this a more of a sensitivity about arguments and things like that. Everyone was just completely dysregulated. And in my head, I'm thinking, you're the parent here. You you need to be regulating yourself. But I had just gone so far off the chart of regulation. You know, I felt I did feel a deep kind of wave of shame in that moment of how much I had lost control. And my my response to that, and I guess this does speak to what you were saying, you know, in terms of how we um, you know, have the sort of respect for ourselves, I guess, and like where we're at with our own development, our own journey. I quickly realized that I just needed some some time to, you know, a few moments to sort of gather myself because I think sometimes the problem is in that moment when everyone is so heightened and dysregulated, um, it can get you know really out of control. So I I I I did my best to get everyone out of the bath, everyone still had all this stuff in their hair. It was a bit of a nightmare, to be honest. Sent them to school this morning with very greasy hair full of knit lotion, but hey-ho. And um, and I just needed to take a few minutes. And, you know, I put I've got them safely in their bedrooms, everyone's wearing their pajamas, everyone's like reading or listening to their story players or whatever it is. And I just had to take a few minutes because I knew if I didn't do that, then it was going to be really, really difficult for me to get back from that shame response and and the guilt, you know, as well, that was kind of washing over me that I that that feeling of I've just done this completely wrong. I've completely screwed this up. And the fear that I've completely screwed my children up because, you know, in that moment uh mummy's lost control and you know it's a horrible thing, and my son hates arguments and he's crying, and I'm like, how have I caused you know all of these things? So for me, I I guess I I this leads into a question for you, I guess, because I know that buffering shame is you know your speciality and you've got ways to do that. So I guess my observation in that particular experience yesterday was that my my way to buffer my shame and get myself back into control, you know, under control's the wrong word, but to regulate my own nervous system a little bit was to just take a few minutes, even though it was at bedtime, even though it was late, even though everyone was, you know, upset and dysregulated, was just to say, guys, mummy needs just a few minutes and I'll be right with you. You're safe, you're loved, I just need a few minutes. You know, I lost control, I'm sorry. What is that a common buffering mechanism that you see for shame? Like what other recommendations would you have?

SPEAKER_03 21:58

I think it's more. Foundational. There's stuff that we can do in the moment, of course. And it sounds like you've done exactly the right thing in the moment by you know making that repair. And I love the phrase, love is forged in the repair because that always makes me feel you do feel cozy after a repair. Um, because it is like a deep commitment to I love you, and I am willing to make this repair. But I think there's a foundational piece which is deep trust in the journey of your family and deep trust in your children's lives, and deep trust in your own life, and I think a bit, I think of it a bit like you know, a record player. If you have done the work to find out your core values and to get in tune with your integrity, integrity is a massive shame buffer. So, for example, it works a bit like this: if you are in alignment with your integrity in the way that you live your life, it's very hard to feel shame because you can just remind yourself of I don't have to be liked by everyone, stuff doesn't have to go exactly to plan. But if I am in alignment with my integrity, then I can trust that I'm fundamentally okay. It's when we're nervous about our integrity or when we're not even aware of it that we can start to spiral. And with the analogy of the record player, integrity is the groove in the record player, and sometimes we are going to act in ways that are based in ego and fear and shame that are going to take our needle off the record and we're going to start glitching, right? But integrity is the thing that is going to take us back. And by repairing, we are committing to realign to our integrity, we're finding the groove again. And so often I think it's really about we might have to do some work, some personal inner growth work by yourself, journaling with a coach to find the groove so that no matter what ruptures happen in your life, you can trust that you can return to the groove. And hopefully it's a it's a it's a good tune that you on your record player that kind of feels authentic and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

I love that analogy, and uh and I and yeah, it definitely resonates with me the the the core values. It's something that I I talk about a lot in my own work and coaching with mums and reflect on personally a lot as well. You know, my one of my core values is connection, and I think that's why I I find these ruptures in family life, which are so common and normal, by the way, you know, yeah, um, so challenging because they really uh, you know, they really challenge that core value of connection and feeling disconnected is something that none of us, none of us like. And I think so so for me, a a big part of my parenting approach is based around the rupture and the repair, you know, always repairing the rupture as best as I can and accepting that it's not always going to be a perfect repair and that life and parenting are messy, you know. Um, and I and I think maybe that's part of the the buffering against the shame and the guilt as well, is to to to remind ourselves that we're just human, yeah, you know, um, and we do make mistakes and we do have moments of disconnect and we do behave in ways that you know makes us feel guilty and ashamed. And actually, you know, this is a normal part of the human experience. And as long as we have that conscious awareness that it's important to reconnect after we have disconnected, you know, then for me, I guess that's how I manage these challenges. Um, but what I'd love to talk about a little bit is um we've talked, haven't we, about how a lot of the parents that you work with have um neurodiversity um in their families. And perhaps, well, I don't know, do you do you see shame cropping up more in that context? And if so, why might that be, do you think?

SPEAKER_03 26:30

So I think you know, if you've grown up with you know neurodiversity, then you're just gonna have experienced so many more corrections and criticisms, just because your executive functioning, you know, which is the ability to carry out tasks from start to finish, is weaker than other kids. So you're basically going to have been given quite a lot of criticism, and then you become uh a parent, and then it can just feel like, oh, here's another thing that I'm just maybe like not good at. And you know, parenting requires a lot of executive functioning, and if your executive functioning is not strong, like my executive functioning is not very strong, and so I get very quickly overstimulated and overwhelmed, and I also think just being extremely um sensitive to rejection can, and you know, I remember really thinking when my Googling when my child was about two, my child doesn't like me. What can I do? I remember Googling that because I felt like his behavior was like a reflection of him not liking me, and that sent me into such a shame spiral, you know. And um yeah, and I think another thing I I really like this this phrase that shame is like an implosion of the body, and often people who are neurodiverse they're very sensitive to introsion, the introspective. Um so introspens is like the feeling of sensation inside your body, and shame is a visceral experience of sort of like folding into oneself, and people who are particularly sensitive to interception, which a lot of neurodiverse people are, can often feel shame in this overwhelming physical way, and then yeah, so it's imploding inwards, and then sometimes they end up exploding outwards in order to release that horrendous sensation in the body.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

God, that I can't imagine how hard that must be because to my knowledge, at least I don't believe we have neurodiverse children, but maybe it's too early to tell. Uh, but certainly, yeah, to imagine that that the shame could feel even worse than it does, you know, in those moments when it arises is a it's a scary thing to think about. So, so how do you work with parents who are experiencing this?

SPEAKER_03 29:31

In many different ways. Um, you mentioned boundaries at the start of this call, and I think that boundaries are so important. And when I'm, you know, we and the the word boundaries means so many different things because boundaries can mean rules, boundaries can mean like how you spend your your time and what you're willing to kind of invest in. And what I what I think is probably most important in terms of shame is like protecting your energy, protecting your worth. And it's almost like I do a lot of stuff with getting um parents to visualize their boundary bubbles, like imagining that you have like a force field around you, and when you the things that bring you shame, often they are like coming right in to that force field, and it's sort of like strengthening the force field, and how we strengthen it is we plug away our inner worth and authenticity and integrity and enoughness, and so often one of the things, one of my favorite questions to ask clients is how do you know when something is enough? Because so often we feel like nothing is enough, and we're splurging our energy outwards, and actually if you are struggling with shame, protecting your energy, and I just love that phrase like protect your energy. How can you protect your energy today? And then I don't necessarily do this with clients, although some I do encourage them to do this, I don't do it in sessions with them, but if you are struggling with shame, you have to dance because and I don't mean dancing a routine, I mean dancing like a weirdo, like a weirdo, like okay, dance for me has been a transformational journey of making peace with shame because dance is like a grapple between how do I think I should move, which is shame, versus how does my body intuitively want to move, and my body intuitively wants to move in some really wild and crazy shapes, and for me that has been personally the most transformational thing for me in terms of making peace with shame is dance, ecstatic dance, dance meditation. You gotta dance if you struggle with shame.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Wow, that's a that's a good one to try, isn't it? Anyone listening? How do how do you start that then if you're if you're not a natural dancer? What's the what's the easiest step into that?

SPEAKER_03 32:42

Um YouTube has a ton of ecstatic dance and dance meditations, or yeah, find an ecstatic dance um class, or not really class, it's more like a sort of sober rave experience, and or just you know, put on some tunes in your kitchen. And one of the things is dancing with your eyes closed, because um, if you're dancing and you're able to see yourself, sometimes that can keep us like stuck in like I gotta do a dance routine, and actually, humans have always danced, and we are probably the least dancy generation of people potentially ever. And you know, young people nowadays are not dancing because they're scared to dance because of fear of being filmed on you know mobile phones, and we gotta dance, like our culture, our our species needs to dance, is what I I would say.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

I love that. I went dancing last weekend. I thought I'm I'm 45 this year. We went to a a day rave, and I thought I love that. I think my kids probably think I'm deeply uncool, at least they will do in years to come when I'm still still going dancing. But uh but yeah, no, I think um I agree with you. I think dancing is a very important thing. And actually, it's funny you say it because I when you first mentioned it, it didn't immediately resonate in the sense that I do dance much on my own at home, you know, with my eyes closed, whatever. But I actually, if I look back over the last week and some of the moments that I have found more challenging, I probably can remember occasional moments when afterwards I just sort of like let it all out a little bit and had a little dance, little kitchen dance or something like that. And I it's not a connection that I had made until now when you said that, that perhaps that was a way of just shaking it off and getting it out of uh of my nervous system. So, yeah, that's an interesting thing to explore. So, so that would be a kind of somatic tool that you would recommend.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

Yeah, and um the other thing I think is as parents we can become so disembodied because we're always focusing over there on our child, and that's because we're doing the job of a tribe. We are we are one nervous system doing the job of many nervous systems because we're not meant to be parenting in nuclear families, we're meant to be parenting in tribes with many nervous systems regulating, co-regulating with our nervous system, and because we're not, then we can end up just like being very disembodied. And what I mean by that is not being in our bodies, being our attention is always over there, over there on our child. And then what happens is we don't notice the subtle signs of activation building in our body until suddenly they're overwhelming, and anything that can get you more embodied is going to help. Whatever works for you, whether that be like exercise or meditation or just like noticing your internal um experience more.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Yeah, I love that. Actually, a friend of mine who is also a parent coach gave me that uh the tool about what is it when you're to get back into your body to to notice three things you can see, three things you can, what is it? Three hit, see, here, touch, I think. Three things you can see, three things you can hear, three things you can touch. Um, in those moments of overwhelm or guilt or shame or whatever that might be, those kinds of techniques can help us to get back into our bodies. And I am not very natural at doing those kinds of things, actually. I think I probably could be a lot more in touch with my body. So um, so would you what what could be a a tool that would you would recommend for that to help you sort of start to get back into your body besides dance, like if there was one thing on the on the daily that you could start to do?

SPEAKER_03 36:44

So a really nice question is how does it feel to be how does it feel to be me in my body today? And then that's like a that's like a gateway to noticing what's going on in your body, and another thing I think is to check in on where your energy is at. Is your energy up in the top quarter of your body, like in your shoulders, in your ribs, in your head? And if it is, could you bring some of that energy down? And basically that's grounding yourself, but it's just a really simple observation. Where is my energy at? Is it in the top half of my body? Could I spread it down a little bit? Could I pay some attention to my feet? To sort of pendulate between all of this activation in the head, could I pendulate down to my feet and pay some attention to them?

SPEAKER_01 37:45

I love that. I think I my answer to that question would be I a lot of my energy is always in my chest, you know, like the nervous energy and the the overload, you know, classic mum, you know, mental load and overwhelm in my head, and then the associated kind of stress and panic that that brings into my chest. And then sometimes that translates, you know, I have days when I'm like this this week is a really good week workwise, you know, I'm buzzing with ideas and I have that all kind of like excited energy, but it's it's now you're making me think about it. It's actually a lot, you know, in the top kind of third of my body that I have it. And I do a little, you know, I do try and do some exercise during the week and try and get out and do walking and stuff, but I think not always that conscious awareness of like the lower part of my body. So I find that very useful advice and something that I will endeavor to think about a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 38:39

And also, I think one of the worst things that we can do that we all end up doing is just fighting with ourselves, and then that actually gives us more activation. So we might notice, oh, I'm feeling all of this energy in my chest. Now I need to move it out. And actually, sometimes that fighting with yourself is actually the thing that is gonna bring you more activation. So sometimes it's like, oh, I'm feeling a lot of activation in my chest. Hello, activation in my chest. I see you, I hear you, you're here today, and you know, if it's not shifting, just accepting it. You're here today, and then often that is the thing that will help to soften it. Um, because I think we can so end up just in this fighting with ourselves, you know. I'm feeling shame, I'm feeling guilt. Like I need to get rid of this, and actually just maybe like, yeah, I'm feeling shame. Hello, Shane, here you are, and being kind and gentle to ourselves and not forcing or fighting.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

And that brings us beautifully full circle to the whole concept of empathy being at the opposite end of the spectrum from shame and why it is so important to cultivate that sense of empathy and and kindness in ourselves and also role model it to our children, and you know, so it kind of beautifully comes full circle, I think, at that point. I just find your work so fascinating and love talking to you and hearing all of your uh amazing insights and wisdom on this topic. So you I'm anyone that is listening to this, I'm sure, is thinking, wow, this is amazing. How can people get in touch with you if they want to find out more and work with you?

SPEAKER_03 40:22

So, yeah, my my brand is Findingflow Parenting. So you can find me my website, findingflowparenting.coach, you can find me on Instagram, YouTube, tiny bit on TikTok, maybe. Um, and yeah, I work with um clients one-to-one, and I also work with couples um to to help them in their parenting journey. And I also do somatic work with clients as well.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Amazing. Thank you so much for joining me today and for all of your wonderful wisdom and insights. Um, I will put all the information in the show notes and yeah, I'm very much looking forward to future conversations with you, Emily. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

Thanks so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Thanks for joining me on Challenge Your Guilt. If you found this episode helpful, I'd love for you to subscribe, leave a review, or share it with another mother who needs to hear this. You can also buy the book, Challenge Your Guilt, or book a free call with me to explore how we can work together. Links are in the show notes. Until next time, remember the guilt you've been carrying was never yours to hold. It's time to put it down.