The "Kingfish" of Goodwill | Always Lifting Ep. 4

Karen sits down with Ed “Kingfish” Lada, President & CEO of Goodwill Keystone Area, to explore how a $102M social enterprise is using workforce development, sustainability, and AI literacy to lift communities across 22 Pennsylvania counties. From re-entry success stories to “AI @ Home” and ethical tech conversations, Ed shares why the future of work must include everyone.

Today's Conversation Covers:

• The story behind Ed’s “Kingfish” nickname and how his Louisiana roots continue to shape his purpose
• Why Goodwill is truly more than a store and how donations power jobs, sustainability, and workforce development
• How Goodwill launched its first AI literacy program and why AI skills matter for economic mobility
• The ethical questions surrounding AI and why capability doesn’t always equal responsibility
• What leaders often overlook about creativity, time, and recognizing the impact of their work

👉 Don’t forget to subscribe to Always Lifting 

👉 Learn more about Goodwill at www.yourgoodwill.org

👉Connect with Ed at  https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwardlada

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Today's guest is someone whose entire mission is about lifting others. As president and CEO of Goodwill Keystone, Ed Kingfish Lada leads an organization that transforms donations into opportunities, creating ripples of impact across our community. Ladies and gentlemen, Ed Lotta. Welcome, Ed. Thanks for coming today.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Thank you for having me. That was an amazing intro.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

You know, uh I have to uh uh give you the uh intro you deserve, right? Um and I let let's start there. Uh Kingfish, uh this is your nickname. There's gotta be a story behind here. I want to know the story.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Well, so it was a dark and stormy night on the Gulf of Mexico. No. Um that's what I think a lot of people think of when they hear the the nickname. But uh I'm born and raised in New Orleans and in Louisiana, if you know anything about kind of political lore, uh there was a very populist governor named Huey P. Long, uh that was governor of Louisiana, who was much beloved by the common folk, but was assassinated on the steps of the Capitol, uh, or maybe inside the Capitol, actually. There were a couple movies made after him, but um, but uh essentially that's kind of the background of the nickname itself coming from Louisiana. Um, and uh and last time my family was all together was at my nephew's uh wedding. And uh my nephew was like, uh when I got my first CEO job uh within Goodwill in Kansas City, he's like, Oh, you're some big kingfish now. And and I owned it kind of like a badge. When someone calls you a kingfish in Louisiana, it's not necessarily a good thing. It's like, you know, it's like don't forget where you came from, right? You're not bigger than where you came from. Remember your roots, right? Um, um, and don't overstep or don't overstay your welcome kind of thing was is is typically it's a it's a warning, you know, if someone calls you a kingfish in Louisiana, and but I use it as an opportunity to reconnect to my roots, right? So, you know, I kind of grew up in poverty poverty for most of most of my childhood and and adulthood. Um and uh and so whenever I get to explain what kingfish means, especially up here in Pennsylvania, it just allows me to remember where I came from, talk about my family, talk about my roots. And so, you know, I I I like to kind of play with the narrative a little bit about oh, kingfish, like, oh, you're some pompous kind of thing going on over here, but rallied up it is just trying to stay connected to my roots and remember why I do what I do.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

I love that. Well, you're what you are doing is fantastic, and I love um that you're staying connected to your roots and this idea of you know w where you came in New Orleans to Pennsylvania, okay? Like how how did that how did you end up here in Pennsylvania and and what um we alluded a little bit to growing up in New Orleans. What led you to Goodwill? Like what's part of that pre-leadership journey to becoming a CEO that you can share with us?

SPEAKER_03 2:55

Yeah, sure. Well, um honestly, it's due to my wife. My wife forced me to go on an interview. Um, I got recruited, uh, worked for a uh property management company, a black-owned business in New Orleans for 11 years, and uh got recruited to the local Goodwill there in New Orleans to be their vice president of contracts. The night before the interview, you know, I'm like, hey, but I kind of want to do something different, you know. I want to go back into kind of political science where I got part of my degree in, and and she was like, ah, babe, just go on an interview. It's probably something totally different. And uh, and here we are, you know, almost 14 years later in Pennsylvania. But um, but essentially my my journey within Goodwill was was essentially finding employment for people with significant disabilities. And uh so I was able to kind of take that small business entrepreneurial hustle that I learned uh uh with that property management company. And even before then, working for the local chamber of commerce was kind of my first foray in a nonprofit work. But when I realized, oh, I can weaponize these this skill set for good and find employment for people with significant disabilities and actually earn a buck for the mission of goodwill, at that point I kind of fell in love with with it. Um and uh and it's been a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful journey uh from that point on.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Can you tell us a little bit more about Good Tool? Because it I don't uh l me having been able to work with you and serve on the board, I've learned a lot about the social enterprise that it is. And you really are making a difference for those that you are serving. Can you just share a little bit about the organization, how that how that works, and maybe some of the programming that you're doing? Because again, everyone thinks of the thrift store, but it is so much more. I mean what do you what's more than a store. Way more than a store.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

Uh well, kind of talk globally for Goodwill. Most people think every goodwill is the same, right? Uh but we are part of what's called a federated model of 501c3 nonprofits, right? So, so each Goodwill, wherever you're listening, you know, each Goodwill has their own board of directors, probably their own CEO, uh, and we have our own territories. And so um kind of give you kind of you know an example of our size and scope, about an eight and a half billion dollar entity within North America. We're the largest workforce development providers in North America. I want to say last time I looked, we're the second largest uh online learning platform uh behind Coursera, which no one really knows about. We actually have courses on Coursera, which is really cool, the Goodwill brand as a whole. Um, but my organization is Goodwill Keystone area, which is in central and southeastern PA. We operate in 22 counties, you know, as far west as Gettysburg, up to all Lehigh Valley and most all the way down to the Philly suburbs. Um, and uh uh within our territory we have 40 retail stores, three distribution centers. But our whole purpose in this is creating sustainable communities, right? And and how do we create sustainability in individual and families' lives? Uh we do that through the stores because we're a second, third, fourth chance employer. You know, a third of my employees are people with documented disabilities. And our whole jam is helping people reach economic self-sustainability through work. And so, you know, when people come to the stores, they're able to supply for their families with gently use items, but there's also a huge sustainability uh component of that. Every store we open diverts about one and a half million pounds from landfills every year and and creates these jobs, and they're massive economic engines from an economic development standpoint. When we plant a seed, we're there for 20, 30, 40 years. And uh uh, but that store contract though, you know, the the LAN Yap, which is a New Orleano, Louisiana terms, like a little cherry on top, is that we're able to do these amazing kind of workforce development and mission services. So we have a very robust re-entry program um right now in partnership with uh all the goodwills in Pennsylvania, where we have two years into the program with 0% recidivism, having served 50, I mean 500 uh federal uh um uh inmates uh as they were uh coming released, which is an extremely special program. Uh we have our Women Wealth program, which is teaching entrepreneurial skills, but also we're the first Goodwill in a country to teach AI literacy. And so uh so we do all these things through the construct of the social enterprise, and that you know, Goodwill is is blessed with extremely generous community that donates their gently used items. But the economy that we're able to create from that allows us to be very agile in what does Pennsylvania need from a mission and resource standpoint. And so, um, so that's kind of the beauty of social enterprise is when we do get philanthropy dollars or government dollars, it's typically because we've already proven out this mission program here that's really in changing lives and improving families and you know, leading people on a path to generational wealth so they can break the shackles of poverty and criminality and health issues and all those things. And so so the beauty of the store is when you donate to a store or you know, get a job at a store, it really is a launching pad to all these other things. Uh and it's it it's it's our secret sauce, honestly. I'm surprised more countries around the world don't have this social enterprise contract. But it it really is just a circular model of support for our local communities.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

It's a wonderful ecosystem that you're developing. And you know, as you mentioned from all of the services you're providing to the the education in the stores that are happening, the opportunities that are there. Um and then you mentioned a little bit about workforce development, so let's kind of go there a little bit. You've you said that you were doing some work around teaching workforce development around AI. I know you do WorkPorse development on a lot of different subjects. Um and all and also a little bit about um how you're able to bring emerging technologies to those who may not otherwise have exposure to that. And I know we both have a passion for technology, right? We love all that, all of that kind of good stuff. So tell me a little bit about how you're able to do that or what what kind of uh training around AI are you are you providing.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

So for for us at Goodwill Keystone, and again, the narrative is definitely growing across the country, the there are some pretty basic kind of essential skills, right? That is how do you work in a team and you know what they used to call soft skills, but really it's a matter of how do you you know work uh with a peer and how do you you know uh solve problems together and things like that. But foundationally, though, what Goodwills typically teach across the country are things like financial literacy and digital literacy. It's been our point of view since 20, what, 2023 now, that um uh May 2023 when ChatGPT dropped, we realized that AI, the the need for AI literacy was going to be foundational moving forward because of how transformational tech was. Now, I had the luxury and the privilege of working alongside computer vision machine learning before when I was a CEO of the Goodwill in Kansas City, uh, and we uh were developing a proof and concept with some computer vision machine learning AI to help identify fabric composition and defects in clothing and things like that, just to see if something off the shelf, which was formerly for uh boxing and kidding and labeling, uh, to be able to do this. And from that, we were able to kind of build, while I was in Kansas City, uh the Artemis Initiative, which is uh kind of future state of work workforce development, where we had uh individual program participants with significant disabilities help us build a neural network to be able to train AI to identify these things. And that's kind of where I kind of cut my teeth and understood the the potential of it. But in that research, I realized like there is a tidal wave of change coming and we weren't talking about it. So, you know, and I was the first CEO in the movement to kind of bring it up. And and you know, I had a friend of mine say, Hey, I honestly thought you were chicken little about this stuff, maybe you're just super early. I'm like, well, I appreciate that. It was really kind for you to say, kind of. Uh, but I was appreciative of it. But but at the end of the day, um, what we're seeing with with AI in particular is that even the technology doesn't get any better today, it's still transformational technology. And what it really represents is this green field of opportunity for people that are underskilled, low-skilled, you know, people with disabilities and so on and so forth to really skill up, right? And so, so what we're seeing with AI is this kind of democratization of knowledge that now someone, you know, think of a single mother, two kids, two jobs that maybe has 30 minutes to herself, you know, to get something done, now all of a sudden has this legal expert on her on her hip. Or, you know, we we teach people on our in some of our programs how to take a picture of their fridge and and their spice rack and their pantry and be like, okay, what can I make with what I have and how do I budget and these sort of sorts of things. So for us at a philosophical level, we're we believe generative AI in particular can help solve for things like time poverty as a barrier to employment.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

Um, and uh and and really focusing on how do you use these skills that you're gonna learn or l as you learn AI literacy at home to help find more time or help your family or help your kids and and just the access that that it can be, but also recognize the biases that are in the systems and the pitfalls, right? And so uh so for us it's kind of become a categorical imperative for you, Emmanuel Cotton fans out there. But it really is is like, all right, we know this is coming, but typically during industrial revolutions, the first people are left behind are people with disabilities and bears of employment. And uh and so for us we see this as kind of uh um an imperative that hey, we have to teach these skills so people can keep up kind of to to to stay market relevant as the technology changes.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Fantastic. It's interesting, even just what you know, uh the one little nugget there of time poverty, right? Like it like it's something that we don't always think about, but those little small things can can add up to a big impact, not to mention the greater understanding of the technology for being able to move into the workforce.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

Yeah, I don't think we think un unless you get older in age or have a life issue, right? It's like, you know, time's a commodity. It is, right? You know, and so so when you think about, you know, especially if you have, you know, coming through the justice system and trying to get restart your life, or you know, you have a pretty significant disability, you know, there are different things that pressures on your life that are are not necessarily normal. Uh and and where we're seeing generative AI, where all the really great stories are, hey, I use this at home to do this, right? And one of our program participants who was in a women's shelter that we that we service through our Women of Wealth program, uh, she had a repo car and she was trying to rebuild her credit and trying to get out of this extremely rough situation that she found herself in. And uh, and so we taught her how to use generative AI to just like ask questions because she was she was super scared that if she called, you know, the the the um the repo company that, you know, are they gonna pick her up and send her to jail and all these things? And she didn't want to be disconnected from her kids and just just crippled with fear on how to approach it. And so we taught her how to use Genova AI to be like, all right, well, let's ask it questions, let's arm you with the right questions, go ask the right people. We'll come to find out if she would have made the call, it would open up her case again and would have destroyed her credit even worse.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

Right. And so then she was able to take those questions with a financial advisor that we were able to connect her with and kind of help chart her on her path for growth. But that's just one of like many, many stories that we're finding when we're teaching these skills of how it's impacting real world at home in a way that that, you know, a Google search may have taken hours of research to kind of decipher and understand. And now all of a sudden, you know, Jen of AI may get you 90% there, but now you're armed with questions that you weren't even aware to ask. That's a just a different, you know, paradigm shift for for the type of people that Goodwill serves that may not have access to tech or may not have access to a laptop or even smartphones. As unimaginable for most as that is, is that that uh this technology still is accessible yet not. And and so without actually giving exposure and and awareness and accessibility, um, they you know it's hard for people to realize or keep their head up to to see you know what could be. And so that's what we try to do at Goodwill.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Yeah, it's fantastic. Really great work. And I can tell that it, you know, just that one story that you share, shared uh shows us how it can catapult people forward. So I mean, we've actually I have a question for you that I I had, like, you know, what's one thing about Goodwill that might surprise people? But I feel you've already shared a bunch of things that might surprise people. But what in your mind, is there one thing that you think of that that comes to mind of just something um that is that would surprise people who might be listening today?

SPEAKER_03 15:13

Um, you know, I think the the correlation of goodwill and AI is not necessarily a leap that most people will make.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

I agree.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

Uh right. And so so uh but then you know, most people, I think nine out of ten people know us for the place where they donate, you know, their household goods or place where they can go shop and try try to you know treasure hunt or find something trendy or you know, just stretch your dollar and in in uh uh difficult economic times when they come about. Uh but the reality of it is that we're the largest workforce development provider in North America, right? We are all about trying to lift people up. You know, we we say hand up, not a hand out kind of thing, right? And and uh, you know, when you think of all of the cyclical nature of poverty and criminality and all those things, most of that is the inability to find and keep, you know, gainful employment. And so, so most people I don't think realize kind of the social the yes, the real the retail stores are there to help fund those different programs. Um, and uh and so I think that's kind of a best kept secret. But I would say definitely Goodwill and AI, you know, when I first start talking to people, it's like, yeah, we're you know, we're doing this, this, and this. Like, wait, what? Right. And so I'll I'll share one little pilot. You know, we built an AI agent to allow our employees to have a conversation with our handbook. And when we were doing the work, we were like, you know, we found all kinds of Goodwill history because Goodwill's been around for over 100 years, and you know, the brand itself and in Central PA, our organization was a product of a merger from from early 2000. We've been around for 76 years, 77 years almost. And um, uh, so anyway, we we did this handbook and they were like, wait, you know, we we could we find an audio video of the founder of Goodwill, who was a uh Methodist priest, uh Rever Reverend Edgar Helms. And so we started doing research and we found this 1920s audio recording, and we're like, oh man, let's see if we can rip his voice to see if he can maybe be the voice of this AI agent to, you know, you can have a conversation about Goodwill history and just feel this amazing connection to this legacy brand. And um, but then we sat back and we're like, wait, hold on. I know the grandson of this man. I've got a call and see if it's okay if we're kind of resurrecting him in a way. And uh uh, and of course he was cool about it and wants to kind of take it on a roadshow to have conversations with his grandfather about goodwill and goodwill history because he's still actively involved within the goodwill world. But it but it it forced us to have broader ethical conversations about just because we can, should we, right? So you know, yeah, yeah, exactly. So we had an employee who who unexpectedly tragically passed away, and you know, I posed a question. I was like, how would we feel if we recreated her in the same way? And and instantaneously it was like, oh no, we can't do that. You know, that's a stretch too far and things like that. And so, like part of it is that as we're building these tools, not only from a business standpoint, but as we start teaching these tools, there constantly needs to be this ethical kind of blend and and uh and and question, like take a seat back and be like, all right, just because we can do this now in a way that was never accessible, should we do it? Um, so so again, I think that's those are the conversations that people want to equate with what the hell is goodwill talk about AI ethics for. But the reality of it is that that this is such an opportunity for everyone, uh, regardless of your stature in life, regardless of your place in life. And and so we have to treat it as an opportunity as much as is is a threat. Um, so but there's like a million other things, you know, sustainability piece, you know, our reentry work, our mental health services work. We operate a clubhouse in Lehigh Valley for people with with uh uh significant mental disabilities and other and and other uh bearers of employment. Um but you know, each goodwill is different, right? Each Goodwill has their own hyper-local mission delivery.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

That's what I've always loved, is that you, you know, when you've talked about Keystone Goodwill, you're looking at what you can do in the community that you serve. And, you know, as you said, this that's the mission of each goodwill across the country is okay, we're not we don't have just like one size fits all as far as the programming we're offering. We're addressing uh what are the needs of the community around us, how can we help them. I do think it's very clever to be able to use AI and to provide something that can really lift, you know, lift people up um and and you know, that I don't think would have been thought of before. I think it's very unique that um using that angle.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

I'm surprised at how unique that is, especially in the nonprofit space, right? It's like I think there's a lot of fear and uncertainty with around AI, you know, and I think that naturally people are gonna be very fearful because they're worried about, oh, is it gonna replace me? You know, and I I I very bluntly tell people, I said, AI is not gonna replace you and all like good unless you're like in a computer science kind of you know specialty where there is a significant threat. But people who use and leverage generative AI absolutely are gonna be immediately pushed to the top of the pile. And so, uh, but even within that world, when I think about the people that Goodwill serves, you know, part of our workforce development pipeline is helping people find jobs, right? So we're helping resume building and and uh career pathways and looking for jobs and cover letters and helping interviews, mock interviews, right? Well, now you have so many different AI agents out there that where someone who knows how to use this tech can apply to 100 jobs in a minute instead of one job in a hundred minutes. Um, that's a very different kind of, you know, inequitable kind of playing field now that is booming. And so people that don't understand how to use the tools that are looking for jobs are even furthermore kind of left behind because they can't throw the sheer volume out there to try to find jobs and employment. So it's just this weird, you know, again, talking about a weird ethical conversation, it's like, all right, well, we teach them how to use the tools, and now they're just perpetrating the problem of over applications or, you know, just throwing a large casting net. But, you know, at the end of the day, if you're in their shoes, like should they not have access to those tools just because, you know, there is this kind of moment of time problem. And so those are the kind of weird conversations that kind of constantly, constantly pull up. But um, but no, I think it's it's it's overcoming the fear and understanding that whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, it is part of your life moving forward. You're not putting a toothpaste back in the tube and you're doing yourself a disservice not to at least educate yourself on what it can do and what it can't, and understand kind of the pace of change too. I think that's really hard for people to conceptualize. I think a lot of people played with it, you know, maybe two years ago. It was like, ah, this, you know, this is a Fed, this is you know no real thing. But understanding that when they interacted with it two years ago, it was like a you know, second grader, and now it's passing PhD level exams, right? And so uh I think the pace of change is so hard for the fast. Too fast. Too fast.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Even we like fast. I know I I you know, I we like fast, we love all that stuff, but it's it's it's it's you know, um whiplash level stuff right now.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: It's impossible to keep up.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

It is impossible. Do you have a technique of of where you go to kind of stay abreast of new technology? Or you know, we talked a lot about AI. I know you've been to some MIT training and and whatnot. Is there any advice you'd have for anybody out there on where to look to keep playing with it, learning about it?

SPEAKER_03 22:22

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, my favorite go-to and for most of us, YouTube is still an amazing resource to get skilled up, right? But I mean, if you're a professional listening to this, I mean they have executive coursework now at MIT, at Harvard, Stanford. Uh really, most universities are starting to move toward kind of these micro doses of, you know, just kind of uh stacking up, not necessarily credentials, but in some ways credentials, but getting real, real um uh directed learning, right? And so um so highly recommend looking at any of those courses if you're looking to scale up as an executive. They can be pricey for sure, but at the end of the day, they be transformational. I know they're transformational for me. Um, but but besides YouTube too, they're you know, you can create an AI agent through Chat GPT now to actually, you know, pull all of the relevant AI-related headlines and the different tools. But you know, it's hard because there are like 2,000 agents coming online like every day, right? So unless you're really understand sites like GitHub and things like that, it's really just setting up RSS feeds, old school RSS feeds, just to kind of feed you information. But YouTube is absolutely kind of one of the best. And there's so much free educational content out there with OpenAI Academy, with uh Google's AI Essentials training, Microsoft uh uh Elevate has some great training. Uh the accessibility to skill up is pretty amazing. But if I have one recommendation for any listener out there, go learn advanced prompt engineering.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

If you learn advanced prompt engineering, and it's not hard, it sounds like it's hard, but it's really not, right? It's really how you structure a prompt.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

That in itself will teach you what systems can and cannot do and how to formulate it. But I can tell you, I think what over the last couple months between travel and other things, we've my family has probably saved about, you know, a thousand to two thousand dollars in expenses that I would have had to get professional services for here and there, right? And so so part of it is learn advanced prompt engineering. Think about how you can use it at home. And in your personal and daily in work life, how do I bring AI alongside? Like treat it as an assistant, a personal assistant.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

You know, what your role is or what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

That's exactly it. Well, and it's part of the reason why part of our AI literacy efforts at Goodwill Keystone is teaching individuals how to use it at home. Like we have, you know, we've created kind of three hours of content of, hey, these are ways you can use at home. The thought process behind it is that if people are more likely to use at home, they'll be able to advocate for the ethical and right use cases that help propel their lives, but they're also gonna be way more comfortable kind of adopting it at work as as the tools become more readily available and start getting fine-tuned and things like that. So part of it where we started training A at home is just alleviate the fear and like, like, no, like you can do some pretty profound things with an image, right? You know, tell it, you know, and so um uh so we do spend a lot of time just like we're you know, yes, we're gonna use it at work. We're trying to find really creative ways, but culturally as an organization though, we had to build a culture of, you know, create this AI sandbox that was kind of a controlled environment to handle the governance and and the security issues, but then also really encourage people to go tinker, like go break stuff, uh, you know, bring those ideas to the table because something you may think of may have transformational effect across the organization. And so, but that was deliberate and that was kind of bringing people to the party. And uh, I had a peer, uh, Michael Ward Davis, Dr. Markham Wort Davis, who's CEO out of uh out of Minnesota. He said, Hey, it's not about buy-in, it's about co-creation.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

And I love the aspect of co-creation, right?

SPEAKER_03 26:01

Yeah, you want buy-in, and buy-in is more of a top-down narrative, but it's the co-creation from a bottom-up approach, right? And so essentially, you know, as a CEO of my organization, I just gave permission to be like, hey, we're gonna look at this, we need to look at this, but I need my ground, I need my people on the ground to tell me what problems we need to solve.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

And it's kind of pulling it all the way around full circle, right? So you're you're talking about this idea of co-creation. We've talked before about human-centric technology and that a lot of technology the best way to use it is to make us superpowered humans with the tech versus the replacement of the human, right? Like that's not augmented augmented human um and and um so I feel like that that co-creation idea, whether you're co-creating with the technology, you're co-creating in your organization, you have permission to go and do those different pieces. I think that's a really um lovely way to kind of categorize it.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

For sure. Well, and I think also for you know, for any executive's looking to kind of go on their AI journey, you know, yeah, you need your governance, yeah, you need your security, you know, yeah, you uh you should have an AI roadmap and all that stuff, right? All that corporate ease. But the reality of it is I think a lot of organizations have problems, especially larger ones. I think the smaller ones are way more agile and can do some pretty profound things if I'm a small organization. But a large one, they're trying to put AI on top of existing legacy tech stacks. That's not really how it works, not yet, anyway, right? So the reality of it is where the secret sauce and where we've been, we've been moved the needle the most is kind of old school five Y kind of bonefish uh uh type approaches where it's about problem identification, right? It's like, okay, what is the process? But what was the problem that original process was supposed to solve for? Start at the grassroots, you know, the root of the problem you're trying to solve, and then use the most important people in our loop are the subject matter experts in HR and accounting and admission and retail. They're the ones that know the problems down on the ground that keeps your business from humming. Right. They're the ones that need to identify the problem, and then your technologists come over to top with the right appropriate AI tool because there's so many, it changes every day. You know, you can have a you can have a version shift that just uh completely obliterates otherwise.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

I'm like only in uh uh ChatGPT is where I live most of the time, but I have to brand them out into other stuff. The image, I you know, my I did a um a speech um last two, I think it was about two weekends ago, and I um I did all of my imagery, because it's a picture-only kind of presentation, was all through ChatGPT. So I was so proud that I got that going in there. But it's it's you know, you need to kind of play with the different different pieces. All right, so life hack. Give me one life hack of how you're using AI at home that I could apply to my home.

SPEAKER_03 28:39

Uh so depending on what your schedule is home, trying to find meals and meal planning is like such low-hanging fruit. Or house maintenance, right? So, you know, I mentioned about taking a picture of your refrigerator, your spice rack in your in your pantry, load it in a chat GPT or Gemini or whatever AI, LLM that you like, and say, what do you identify? What type of recipes can I cook with what I have? And then give me a good recipe that I can just go in and start making that's under 20 minutes, right? Or 30 minutes. That that's like low-hang fruit, you know, uh uh amazing. Uh, but small little maintenance things or gardening or like identification, you know, just taking a picture and asking ChatGPT, what do you see? What is it? What can you help me with? Like I use it to help install a dryer vent, you know, and things like that. Um, but think of, you know, if you have a roof repair, it's like, hey, what questions do I need to ask the the the the person? How much should I anticipate a leaky roof costing, right? Right. It's those types of things where now all of a sudden you have a, you know, you have a contractor on your hip, or hey, I have this legal problem. What should I think about? What do I need to know? How much? Things like that, right? And so, so and I also think also diving into some of the deep learning and the, you know, the each each uh different LLM has different kind of attachments, for lack of a better word, uh, where you can say, hey, I want to deep research this thing, where it'll go and research on the web and pull and have a much robust and reason type of thing. So understanding those little little idiosyncrasies. But at home in particular, if you're a gardener, ask it to help you garden, right? If you're if you're if you're like there's so much, there's so much, right? If you need a how do I wire this? You know, at least it'll get you enough questions. Now, of course, trust but verify everything here, right? Don't start playing with wires without verifying that, you know, that that information is correct because it definitely has limits. Uh, but those are the things where where it really moves a needle at home, especially for kids. You know, I don't know whether or not uh, you know, if you're a parent that's helping kids with homework, uh, the way that the kids learn today is vastly different and is gonna be even more different over the next couple of years as education catches up with AI. All right. And so, uh, but there are even study guide modes where you AI can be a study partner or a tutor. That's clever. Um and we're seeing a p a bunch of people kind of use that instead of just giving answers, like, no, I'm gonna walk you through what this means and why it means that. So again, it's just a green field of opportunity, but it's on a risk too.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Is there so we've we talked a lot about AI, which I know is a sweet spot for you, but is there any other emerging technology or emerging workforce trends that you're seeing? Since again, you're providing all of this workforce um teaching across the the country and and development. You know, what what else what else should is you know that we don't know about that we should know about?

SPEAKER_03 31:31

So high level, the the biggest threats right now are probably Gen Z coming into the workforce. Like there's there's significant concerns, and some data is starting to kind of show it that um uh white-collar job disruption at the entry level is gonna start kind of going away. So, you know, I think most people are fearful that about AI that there's gonna be these mass layoffs, not necessarily right away, and the data's not supporting that unless it's kind of niche markets, like I mentioned before, but but it's gonna be more through attrition, right? Is that you're gonna be able to produce so much more at work with these tools that you're not gonna have to hire back some of the old positions that you once did, right? And so so part of it is understanding, really gonna understand where the tech can go within your world and what you do. Um, don't fall into the zombie apocalypse paradox and that, oh there's no sky net. Oh no, I mean look, look, I mean, if you really want to talk scary stuff, yeah, I mean there's there's potential there. I think I think the thing that that most concerns me is that, and I don't know if concern is the right word, but the what I'm paying attention to is that uh there are scaling laws with AI in particular where we have not hit the limits of scaling laws, right? And so scaling log basically says that if you add compute with parameters with data, there's no limit to how good the AI can get. So this $800 billion investment into infrastructure, into energy rights and water rights, all of that is going to have an effect on society because now uh they're anticipating 10% of all energy usage is gonna come from AI development. So, you know, you have in Pennsylvania, Microsoft having acquired Three Mile Island to help produce for their AI farms. Well, there wasn't only the energy, but it was also the water rights of the Susquehanna, right? And so, or to get access to those types of things. So now, as a consumer, as an individual, depending on how so how some of the deals are done, and some of the deals are structured really great for the local communities, right? They're great investments.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

TMI has been a great revitalization of that area.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

I mean, it's great to see that Unit One come back online and absolutely so but part of it is that understanding that, hey, am I gonna start competing for energy and water rights? Yeah, with big cor with corporations and things like that now, gonna create a ton of jobs, perhaps, you know, and and and will hopefully produce more energy for those communities and all that. So I think that that that there are these societal shifts that are gonna naturally happen. Uh and and my bigger concern is just that through attrition, right? Is that those entry-level jobs are gonna start going away. And again, remember, this is the first time in human history white-collar jobs are the ones that are that are being disrupted, right? So if you ask any trade school in the country in all likelihood or a union, there's a lot more interest in the trades. And part of it is that, all right, maybe that's the last bastion of what AI can maybe not do. But even in that world, interesting, where I'm probably shifting my focus with the next couple years is is the more dynamic kind of dexteritous robotics. Because the other point of the scaling laws is that the AI models are currently trained on pretty much every digital word written, on exception of your social media and you know, corporate information. But there's this whole synthetic data that hasn't really been folded into the models yet. So I forget the uh the um the philosopher, but he basically said that uh I think it's polemy or somebody, I forget. But anyway, essentially said that humans can never tell everything they know, right? So if I asked you, how did you get here this morning? Could you tell me the hue of the sky, the wind direction, right? Absolutely not. Not, right? Right. But when you when you add in Internet of Things, when you add in uh uh autonomous robotics that's gathering this data out in the real world, well, once that starts gathering and starting to get introduced into some of the models, now you're talking about a level of insight that even humans can't even tell, right? And so so I think the narrative around, you know, oh, is this an AI bubble and things like that? It's very different. People keep trying to can conflate this with the dot-com bubble or even the housing bubble, it's not the same thing because it's fundamental, like it has fundamentally changed the way that we work. And my bigger concern is that's just the beginning as well, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

It's just the beginning. And so what happens if AI does push us toward an age of abundance, right? Now we're questioning what it means to be human because we're talking about the purpose of work.

unknown 35:46

Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

If you know you know, you have technologists out there talking about, oh, we're gonna have to go to a four-day weekday or a three-day weekday. Sounds great in principle, right? But with but with the with the societal divides of income, you know, disparity, you know, the the we have not seen the data to say that, hey, it's gonna uplift everyone. So, so again, I think part of the long-term concerns are we are just at the beginning, right? Uh the the world can change six months from now when it comes to AI, right? And so, so I think the best thing to do is just pay attention, right? See where it's going, see how it's disrupting you at your work or your kids at school. Like really think about how it's affecting uh your societal, you know, uh how it is that you go about a day-to-day, uh, and just pay attention and understand where the threats are coming, but also there's so much opportunity that's coming down the pipe as well. So I get excited about both.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

I can tell lots of passion there. Lots of passion. Um, no, that's great. I think that's great advice. Um, and you know, it's here, it's a staying. We've gotta I think just staying tuned in, paying attention, finding out what speaks to you and not being afraid to to try and use it are are key. Well, I'd like to pull it back a little bit to your leadership journey and just um you know, are are there any sort of significant milestones or moments in your life that kind of led you to be able to overcome obstacles um essentially ha that have defined you to become you know the ed that you are today?

SPEAKER_03 37:15

Uh several. Um, you know, I think growing up in New Orleans, New Orleans, for those of you that don't know, it's uh it's nicknamed the city that care forgot. Um and and there's a charm to it, right, is that you go there to unwind. And, you know, uh when you grow up in New Orleans, you kind of work hard during the week and in order to party hard on the weekend kind of thing, right? And and uh ambition really isn't a desired trait in New Orleans because you know, New Orleans has been around for over 300 years, and you know, it's it it's kind of a mainstay of American culture, a cornerstone of American culture. But um, but while I was there, um uh I think one, you know, obviously my Hurricane Katrina experience um was something that absolutely shaped me. Uh, you know, my wife and I were transitionally homeless for about uh six weeks uh post-Katrina. Um my organization at the time, we lost 13 employees in Katrina. Uh either we couldn't find them or they were lost in the flood.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Uh that's quite a thing to it is very much so.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

Yeah. And you learn, you know, when we went back home to help rebuild, um, you know, the there are many shades of gray, right? There is survival mode and then there's survival mode, right? And so, you know, I was fortunate. I don't really tell my Katrina story outside, I mean, in New Orleans often, because I didn't wade through water, I didn't punch a hole through roof. And some of you may have seen the 20-year kind of anniversary on it, but um, you know, but uh even within our journey, my wife and I, we we were uh stuck to a hotel room in St. Augustine, Florida, which was about a nine-hour drive away because that was the closest place we could find a hotel. And and uh I wound up becoming kind of the triage of my organization because I had employees that were trapped in their apartments and their houses in water and you know, trying to coordinate FEMA and things like that, and just trying to help wherever we could. Um and that shapes you, right? And what I realized though, within all that, I thrive in chaos, uh, but I think it's also a defense mechanism as well, right? And because, you know, instead of dealing with the trauma that I was kind of going through with the family and just my work and my city, um, that uh compartmentalization was a survival trait, right? And so, um, so Hurricane Katrina absolutely shaped the way that I view the world um, positively and negatively. I mean, I had my spirits uh renewed from the support that that I saw the world give New Orleans post-Katrina, right? And even during, I mean, we wife and I were at uh Holiday and Select and Amelia Island. Shout out to Holiday and Select and Amelia Island, but we ran out of money and I had to, you know, it was the first time, even though I grew up in poverty, it was the first time I ever had to go beg for help. And um, and so went and talked with uh the hotel manager. I was like, look, my I haven't heard from my family in a week who were stuck to, I don't know, 16 people to a house in the middle of Mississippi and they had lost uh in you know uh electricity, had no way to communicate. Uh and my famil my wife's family were I think six or eight to a hotel room in Houston and I-10 fell in the water and it would have taken 60 hours to kind of drive there. And so I was like, look, we're trying to figure out where we go next. Like, can anything you can do to help, right? And through his grace, he connected us with his local church. That congregation raised funds to help us get on the road. And you know, they had no they yeah, they had they had no reason to do it, but they wanted to help. And, you know, here my wife and I with two dogs just like you know, floundering out there, not knowing what to do. And and uh uh so my wife and I were two of three climate refugees, literal climate refugees that landed in Vermont. So from New Orleans to Vermont, um uh to Lake Champlain, you know, uh Burlington up to Ed.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

I mean, this when I when we talk about what you're doing at Goodwill, when you talk about what you care about and your passions for helping people, especially those with disabilities or disadvantages, I mean, this story fits so into the picture of who you are and why you do what you do. You've literally but had others who helped you. So this idea of, you know, lifting up others and and helping, I mean, it's certainly ingrained in you and um um beautiful that you're now able to pay that back to others and pay for it in a beautiful way.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

Well, I don't know if trauma is always the best place to lead. It's true. Um but but you know, I tell my staff uh, you know, uh uh Goodwill is like I I know uh if someone has the courage to come ask you for help, I know what that means. You know what I mean? Because behind the courage is the shame, is the guilt, is uncertainty. And for someone to come and ask you for help in their in their time of need, we have a sense of urgency and we have a pace at Goodwill Keystone to honor that, right? To understand that if someone's coming to us for help in any capacity, what that means, that we gotta honor that courage with our best effort, right? And and I even reflect on my my three months on the job when I first joined Goodwill in New Orleans. I went to an award ceremony um uh through one of the programs, and this was reserved for people with significant disabilities, and and there were a lot of program participants there that that literally had every reason to give up, every reason to give up. And yet these program winners are winning, and I can see the what what it meant to work and how it transformed the family and the joy it gave them to be recognized. And and I was feeling down on myself because I was with that property management company for 11 years, but it was kind of a divorce when I left, right? And and uh because there was so much energy and that that that wound up uh not coming to to to fruition at the end of the day. But seeing my people overcome and find purpose and joy, I'm like, if I can't do it for myself, I sure in the hell am I gonna do it for them? Right. And at that point I had drunk the Kool-Aid, like I was in it to win it, you know, I had a renewed purpose. And so so understanding within the social enterprise contract, I can take this entrepreneurism and and weaponize it for good, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Taking these moments of of challenge, what you know, it's all about how we frame things, right? We can take moments of of challenge or hardship in our life and we can let them pull us down, right? And and and sometimes we have to go down to kind of come back up again. Yep. Um but at some point if we can channel that for good, as you said, or or channel that into something positive, reframe it, you know, use it as motivation. I mean, it can become quite powerful. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

Well, I I think also it's about being authentic, right? Yes. I mean, like so I I went bankrupt when I was 21, you know, because I, you know, I thought it was hot stuff, graduated honors from Loyola in New Orleans, and you know, got the work in the Office of Uh Government Affairs for Princeton University as like an internship. I just thought I was hot stuff. And came home, couldn't find work for nine months, right? And so, so having gone bankrupt at 21, when I finally found a job, I had to pay more in uh bills than I did um uh than money I was making. And I was just about to get married. I'm Like, I didn't want to saddle my wife with that debt. And and so, so I think that in my world with the people I work with, like I can kind of call bullshit a little bit. I'm sorry, you know, you know, and and so so part of it is that uh, you know, when I talk to our program participants and our employees, like I've lived a day in a life, right? And so when you're a leader, understanding your authenticity, right, and understanding your humanity, it doesn't matter, you don't have to grow up poor, you don't have to, you know, deal with criminality or addiction, things like that that I've had to kind of deal with in my in my journey, uh, to be authentic as a leader to help to connect with your people. Because at the end of the day, you know, we're servant leaders, right? We're here for for the people that we serve, both internally as our employees, but then uh even externally, with all the great work that that uh you and Stephanie do out in the community. But you lead with authenticity, right? And so part of that is hey, I got ADHD too, right? I I am a little neurodivergent if you couldn't tell uh with my uh rapid, rapid speak. But uh but part of that is just understanding where people are, understanding the world are full of shades of gray. And for me, from my leadership journey, like I can I can pinpoint to these little moments, these crossroads that you know uh have led me. Like I learned more watching what people and what what not to do than I do. Like if you told me how you were successful, yeah, I don't you know, I don't know if I'm gonna get much out of it. But you tell me how you failed.

unknown 45:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

I'm gonna pay attention. That's in the biggest learning moments. Right? That's what the biggest learning moments are.

SPEAKER_03 45:32

Well, how do you learn? How do you learn? Like from a leadership standpoint, what's your because I know you're f intellectually fascinated with Curious. Yeah, curious. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

I think you have that quality too. I think we're both very curious individuals. People are fascinated. Yeah, curious, curious about people, curious about technology, curious about different topics, you know, open to learning, realizing that you don't have all the answers, I think is huge. Um and then again, being brave enough to try stuff and fail and that it's okay. And you know, just that they're all every failure is a learning opportunity. Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 46:03

Yeah, well that that's where we first connected, right? Your skunk works, right? Right. And uh and I love the notion of skunk works and and uh you know a controlled environment to innovate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh but again, I think there's there's a spice of life to that as well, right? I mean, you know, we're here for a finite amount of time.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Like like and isn't it wonderful to be our authentic selves and just be our own own whatever whatever it is that makes up who you are to be able to own that and and you know I think we're forever unpacking what that means. Yeah, yeah. Um but I think that that is I think where um we really find and either make our impact or or really enjoy life, right? And and that the the act of living. Well, Ed, I mean, I think we could keep talking for a really long time. But I have a one more question I want to ask you. So we've we've talked about your journey, we've talked about goodwill, we've talked about your your journey around goodwill, like the your passion for what it is that you're doing. What is there anything right now, one thing, uh it could be a book, a habit, um, a mindset that's lifting you at this moment? What's lifting Ed today?

SPEAKER_03 47:05

Uh you know, I think there are a few things. I mean, we're or the the the business is going as great as I could have hoped. We're serving, I think, 220% more people um uh since I've been here. And everything's every so like I'm at the point of my career where where this is probably I know I'm at the kind of peak of of my career, right? And so, but part of it is also, you know, leaning into time management a little more, right? How do I protect uh not only my family's time, work time, mental time, and things like that, and being very deliberate about how I am, I am um I am protecting that time, right? And so delegating where I can and things of that sort, but even to the point where like I don't take any external meetings on a Monday or Friday unless I approve, right? Because I know I need desk time. If I don't control it, you know, things will, you know, things will slip through the crack. And so just being super deliberate about that. But then also I think what I'm finding uplifting now is that I'm I'm finding myself wanting to be more creative. Oh, yeah. Right, right. And so, so how do I scratch that itch? You know, you can find mission anywhere, you can find creativity anywhere. So I've been doing it with work, but there's a part of me that, you know, I want to write, I want to write, right? And and uh I would love to write a book on AI ethics and and a different from a different point of view. Yeah, we heard it here first. All right, that's it. Now now I'm kind of committed, right? I've done set it out in the ether. Uh so like part of it is like how am I going to find the time? How do I make the time to be able to do these things that doesn't sacrifice my time for my 15-year-old and my 10-year-old and my wife and and uh and all the other obligations kind of kind of out there?

SPEAKER_00 48:43

So 168 hours in a week, and it's up to us. We are the ones who actually control those hours.

SPEAKER_03 48:49

So do you have tips for me?

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Well, I mean, my big thing is to not to protect your energy and to be realistic with what you can actually accomplish. Um and to really um think about like how do you want to spend that time. And I do there's a portion for work, but there's also a portion to be with my family. And then I've well the thing that I've done maybe isn't necessarily how to manage that 168. I am still a work in progress on that. But I do use my calendar blocking and things like that to kind of just protect days and and and be real thoughtful about it. But one thing I've really been trying to do is lean into things that bring me joy. And that doesn't mean that I'm good at them, okay? So I've started um I thought it was wood carving, but I think it's more like wood chiseling where I'm like uh chiseling away the stump. We have a lot of wood on our property and my husband has a wood shop, and so that I'm doing it. It I don't know what's gonna come out of it. It's probably just gonna be this odd shape. It'll probably take me, you know, a year till it becomes anything. But the act of just being creative with it, messing around, I don't have to be good at it, but I'm just sort of doing something pure for the joy of it and is fun for me. Um, you know, that's the kind of stuff I'm trying to seek myself, right?

SPEAKER_03 49:58

Well, you you remind me, I think one one thing that I think when we sit in the chairs, right? And if you're you ever become a CEO or if you're a sitting CEO, hopefully you'll you'll recognize this, is that a lot of times the work we put in, we don't see the fruit of that labor for a long time, right? In my world, I'm constantly kind of living, you know, three years out. Like most of my energy is focused on the future state of the organization.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

And you're a futurist too, so like you're visionary looking forward.

SPEAKER_03 50:23

It's definitely but you still have to have the operational chops to know what's real and it's not. And my team will tell you sometimes I don't know what the difference is. Uh, but it's part of what pushes us. But part of that though is like some of my favorite things to do, and I haven't done it and I need to do it because I enjoy it. But like in my stores, just pulling old product from a store or merchandising, putting product out, at the end of that time, I know I've accomplished something, right? And so for sure, right? And so, but part of it is like when I think of your wood, wood carving and whatnot is that you're gonna see the fruit of your labor, regardless of what that is. Right. Like you're gonna see an outcome from that energy. And I think leaders, sometimes we forget, you know, unless we're kind of day-to-day or in the weeds, um, you don't really have an opportunity to take a step back and really appreciate the work that you did. You know, whether it was just, you know, Bruce Liefle, like water type of approach, or whether it was kind of incremental. Um, and so I think that's where the creativity need is, right? It's like, all right, how do I see the fruit of the effort? Maybe that instantaneous joy, that kind of tick-tock talk programming of I need instantaneous satisfaction. But but we have to find that, right?

SPEAKER_02 51:29

We do have to find that.

SPEAKER_03 51:30

And it shouldn't be on our phone. We should be carving wood.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

Put that phone away.

SPEAKER_03 51:34

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

It's hard to do, but it is very hard to do.

SPEAKER_03 51:36

I mean, we're cyborgs.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

I I would I would agree on that. Um well Ed, thanks so much for sharing your journey and all the inspiring work that you're doing at Goodwill Keystone. I appreciate it. You know, you've really shown us what it means to lead with purpose, to innovate with heart, and to lift entire communities with the work that you're doing. And your story really reminds us that leadership isn't just about reaching the top, um, it's about bringing others up with you. And we are better for the lift you are creating. So thanks so much for coming today.

SPEAKER_03 52:06

Thank you, Karen. Appreciate the opportunity. It was fun.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

It's fascinating to hear what other organizations, even nonprofits, are doing to leverage AI to help their customers. Ed and I could probably have talked for another couple of hours on the subject. You can check out the great work that Ed has been up to in the show notes below. Don't forget to subscribe to the show and always lift.