Risking It All (On Purpose) How We Build the Life We Actually Want | Rachel Burr

What if the life you actually want is waiting on the other side of a risk you’ve been afraid to take?

In this episode of Rooted & Wild, I’m joined by executive coach, leadership consultant, speaker, and author Rachel Burr for a funny, candid, and deeply human conversation about risk, transformation, and what it takes to stop settling for a life that merely feels comfortable enough.

With more than 20 years of experience working with leaders and organizations—and master’s degrees in both clinical psychology and organizational development—Rachel understands the complicated ways we keep ourselves safe, even when that safety is keeping us stuck.

We explore the space between knowing something needs to change and actually being willing to change it. Why do we remain in “comfortable discomfort”? What happens when fear of failure becomes fear of fully living? And how do we distinguish reckless risk from the intentional risks that move us toward the people we actually want to become?

Rachel is also the author of Butterfly Goo: The Down and Dirty Truth of Transformation, a humorous memoir about the messy reality of change. Because transformation rarely looks graceful while we’re inside it. Before the butterfly emerges, everything familiar has to dissolve into something Rachel affectionately calls the “goo.”

And maybe that’s the part we don’t talk about enough.

You don’t get the wings without going through the goo.

This conversation is about getting honest about what’s working, acknowledging what isn’t, loosening our grip on certainty, and finding the courage to deliberately risk something familiar in pursuit of something more alive.

In this episode, we explore:

• Why meaningful change almost always involves risk
• The difference between intentional risk and recklessness
• How “comfortable discomfort” keeps us stuck
• Our fear of failure—and what it costs us
• The question of whether we truly believe we’re enough
• Why transformation is messier than we like to admit
• Learning to move through uncertainty instead of avoiding it
• Rachel’s concept of “Butterfly Goo”
• Using humor to navigate difficult seasons of change
• Recognizing when the life you’ve built no longer fits
• Taking purposeful risks toward the life you actually want

Connect with Rachel Burr

📘 Butterfly Goo: The Down and Dirty Truth of Transformation
https://ButterflyGooBook.net/

🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelmburr/
📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rachel.m.burr.1
📸 Instagram: @catamentum 

Rooted & Wild provides general information for educational and informational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by guest speakers are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Henry Hawk. The content shared on this podcast is not intended to replace individualized medical, psychological, or therapeutic advice, nor should it be used to diagnose or treat any health condition. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified healthcare professionals regarding any medical or mental health concerns.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Rooted and Wild. We grew up hearing that purpose is something we must discover, like a hidden treasure we might trip over if we're lucky, but what if that's the wrong story? Today we dig into a different truth that the path we're looking for doesn't exist until we create it. Joining me once again is Rachel Burr, executive coach, people expert, and fierce believer in intentional living. For over two decades, she's guided people through the deep work of uncovering their core identity and building a life that aligns with who they truly are. And yes, she's still leading that self-entertainment committee with humor as her favorite leadership tool. Rachel's passions range from writing to world travel to musical theater. And while she does claim ownership of a banjo, we still haven't heard her play it. Above all, she's driven by two things to make life easier for others and to live and work freely. Anywhere there's Wi-Fi and joy to be found. This is a conversation for the builders, for those who are done waiting and ready to design something real. Rachel, welcome back to Rooted and Wild. Thank you. Such a pleasure. For those listening, um, roughly four weeks ago, we had Rachel on, and she was it was a whole topic on humor. And so uh I would really recommend that you guys check out that episode. You don't have to in order to understand this topic, but it might give you some foundational components and a little bit of laughter. I also want to point out that Rachel has an amazing book called Butterfly Goo, well worth the read, and we include the description in the description, the link in the description box correction. Uh Rachel, uh I look forward to uncovering this topic with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

So as we look into this topic, you know, and this is something that you do as a uh, you know, a people expert and an executive coach, uh it's the idea of, you know, we don't find our path, we build it. What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Well, it's interesting. And kind of just as a brief reference to the book, I talk a lot about this idea of building your path. And I think there's a lot of things we tell ourselves with the best intentions that really are a detriment, um, even when we don't realize it. And a lot of folks talk about finding their path and like it's this magical thing that's gonna manifest. Don't get me wrong, a lot of finds we a lot of times we find a trailhead, like we find maybe something that's a catalyst or a jumping off point. But too often we walk a path because it's there and it's easy and it's been clearly marked. You know, whenever we come out of college, there are, you know, there are tracks that are very common to people, or maybe your particular major has said, okay, these are the things that people with your major typically do. And it's easy to get on that path. I particularly stumbled onto a conveyor belt of my life. So it seemed to have its own momentum, and I had no idea how to get off. It's like those airport ones that are super long and you realize it's going past your gate, but you can't get off until way far.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Or it's like I live Lucy with the chocolates.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Oh, exactly. Oh my gosh, that's what I love that. That's a perfect example. Um, it's really funny because in the book, and I I talk a lot about building my path, and uh the book is loosely based on the heroes, or in my case, the heroines junior journey. But it's kind of tongue-in-cheek because Joseph Campbell, who for those who don't know, writer, philosopher, he talks about the idea that while each of our journeys is different, you're gonna hit maybe stages along the way that we all have in common. And this um hero's journey is found, you know, in old stories like Greek mythology or Grimm's fairy tales. It's also found in all these blockbuster movies. And he was even consulted, I believe, by George Lucas on Star Wars. So, and even when he talks about it, it's so funny. The the little picture they use is usually a little circle of a path, and it looks so clean and nice. And I'm like, let's be real, that is not what transformation looks like. That is not what the journey looks like. It is messy and gooey and ridiculous. Um and so, but even then, I do refer back. I, you know, I appreciate. And one of the things he said, and I'm not gonna get the quote right, but essentially is if you go into that darkest, deepest part of the wood and you find a path that's already built, it's not your path. And if you follow someone else's path, you will never reach your full potential. You have to build it and you have to walk it for it to be yours.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Mm-hmm.

unknown 4:57

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

That's so good. That's so true. It's so true. You know, the the whole component, I think, I think we are so often maybe in the security blanket of the known. And we before we were uh before I went into this episode, you and I were talking of it. And one of the things that came up was like distractions like social media and like media and so forth, and and how rather than maybe living our own path and walking it, we can sometimes get consumed in living vicariously through others that we watch on TV. So this is like my prime example, and I and I will say this myself, like how much do I love watching cooking shows, right? I love watching cooking shows and so good. Oh my gosh, there you go, Paula Dean, you get it, you know, or whatever it is, right? But will I actually make those dishes? You know, so I'm I'm getting the satisfaction of seeing the beginning to the end. But am I, what if I just did it myself? What if I took the risk to make that pie or make that, you know, whatever it is? Uh we get very settled and very satisfied sometimes, and rather than taking the risk.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Well, and it's funny too, because if you even take it to the opposite side of, well, maybe it's not the opposite, but maybe more of the dark side of that same, you know, experience. A lot of times then what happens is we're on social media and it's not even living vicariously through others, it's feeling intimidated and really disappointed in ourselves because, you know, clearly, air quotes, that other people have it all figured out. Other people have this fabulous life, other people have done this. And it's like, you know what? Yeah, sure, maybe they have done X, Y, and Z, but we don't actually know what it is to walk their path. And a lot of times what happens is that actually is part of what feeds us staying in the known. It's what feeds us staying stuck. And what happens is because not only is the known comfortable, but we can justify a lot of the uncomfortable by not wanting to take those risks, that we become comfortable in our discomfort and that we justify for ourselves that you know what, that risk that looks big and looks scary, and uh my life's good enough. You know, this is good enough, good enough, good enough. And you know what? If your life is good enough, then great, do that. But if you're telling yourself that to avoid risk, to avoid the unknown, to avoid going out and baking your own pie, you might want to look at it because those are the little gremlins in your head and they're trying to keep you small.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

So good. The little gremlins in our head. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Or as I like to call it, the demolition crew of my life force.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

Yeah, so true. You know, from a from a neurological standpoint, like the neuroplasticity, challenging situations stimulate neuroplasticity. And that's like the ability for the brain to have new neural pathways. So it anytime you have like anything that's novel or uncertain, it triggers a learning signal, you know. Anytime that the brain grows when we do things that we haven't the uh we do things we haven't uh yet done, the brain actually grows, you know? And small risks can build tolerance for even bigger ones. And so it's so powerful. What has been your own journey in doing taking the path less traveled?

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Well, for a long time I was on the path. Other people might have thought it was less traveled, but for me it was very uh known. And I was on a path to getting a PhD in psychology. I was about, I mean, my undergraduate and research I'd done and you know, work experiences I'd had all were preparing me for this. And I was about four years in. And I always describe it as like a circus train, filled with fun and you know, games and whatever. But I never considered where the train was going and if it was someplace I wanted to go. And to be fair, I didn't wake up one morning and just realize I was miserable. There were red flags along the way, but I ignored them because I was I not only was I comfortable in my discomfort, but this was the only path I knew. I had no idea what else I would do with my life. This sounds arrogant and it's not, but I thought that getting a PhD in clinical psychology was the only thing I was capable of. And like I said, that sounds arrogant, but it's not. It just means that I couldn't, I'm not saying I thought maybe, you know, could or even, you know, would, but that's the only thing I knew how to pursue. And the idea of getting off that path, getting off the circus train, um, because there were two kinds of people on that train with me. There were the people who were so excited to become academics, to become clinicians, to become researchers, they could not wait to get to our destination. So they couldn't help me figure out how to get off because they didn't want to get off.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

And there were the other people like me, but they didn't know how to get off either. So nobody could really help. So the only way to do it was to it's like you throw open that door, it's the tracks are running, but you know, there's some fog, and you have to be willing to step off.

unknown 10:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

And for the longest time, I wasn't. And it took something to well, I like to call them clicks. Like you were saying little steps. I think about them like clicks in a bicycle lock. For those of you who don't know old-fashioned locks. Old fashioned bicycle locks. Um, the lock doesn't just magically spring open. I mean, if it did, that would really defeat the purpose of a lock. Um but it's the clicks. Like you you have a click and this one clicks into place, and that one clicks into place. And I had a moment, and I talk about it in the book, that especially that something just broke open and it was that final click. And I walked across a threshold that I could not come back from in the best possible way. And that was really the beginning of the journey, and stepping off the path into a complete unknown, a very messy, gooey, uncharted territory, unbuilt path, unknown.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Into the unknown.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Into the unknown.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

So taking healthy risks, you know, really does like train the nervous system to manage like activation. Because we typically function more in like this avoidance, where like we avoid things that are, you know, make us afraid. But by actually taking the risk, it increases our window of tolerance, you know. Um, it can reduce phobias. Because I think a lot of times people, when they're afraid of something and they don't take the risk and they don't, they it remains a phobia, it remains a fear, you know. But then how many of us like we we've all been there, even as grown-ups, but especially as kids, when you like, that's a big slide at the water park. I don't know that I want to go down that slide. It scares me. But we go up, we hold our dad's hand or our brother or sister, whatever, and we go and then we do it the first time, and the dopamine comes in and it's like, oh my gosh, that was amazing. And then we're not afraid of it. We go back again and again and again because it was really thrilling. And so the brain actually shifts and suddenly we're like, oh, there's a reward. It's not just a risk anymore. Now there's a reward. And the more we do that, the more likely we are to take risks.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Mm-hmm. And it's funny because when you say that, it's it what the visual for me is always like you take a step outside your comfort zone, and your comfort zone expands a little bit. And then you take another step and it expands and expands until you get to a point where you can't even see where that comfort zone started. And I think a couple of things that you said, I think are so important. Um, one, having somebody to model and support you through those challenges, through going off the slide or whatever you do, it is such a huge support. Knowing that there may be there's somebody either with you or on the other side of that threshold, that can be huge.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Um I think the other piece of it is that uh when we're when we're looking to change and we're looking to take that step, sometimes we think when I feel more courageous, I'll do this. When I feel brave. And by the way, for me, courageous and brave, those are labels somebody else gives you. I I think it was maybe Brene Brown that said, courage is just fear walking.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Um that was a good one.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

I wish I could take credit for it, but I'm pretty sure. Or somebody else that she quoted. So you know, and it's funny, I go back to those little gremlins, and some people call it an inner critic, whatever. We all know what that sounds like, is that we say, okay, once I'm this, then I will do this. No, no, I don't get me wrong. When we feel more courageous, we do do these things. What the gremlins don't want to tell you, and they don't want you to know, because they don't actually want you to go out and do those things, that's like if you do those things, you will feel more empowered, you will feel more confident, and you you will then you will feel more courageous, so you will go and do more things. So it works both ways. But if we sit and wait until we feel courageous to do something, the longer we wait, the less likely we are to actually feel empowered and courageous. And so we're more likely to stay stuck.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

So good. So good. That's so true. You know, when you say stay stuck, you know, it I think people often equate safety, like staying safe, but you're actually staying stuck in some cases. And it's often familiarity dressed up as wisdom. We think it's wise. We think, oh, well, you know, I don't want to go out and do that. It's going to be uncomfortable. It's going to be, it's going to make me exposed. You know, I and as a as a coach, I talk a lot about authenticity, you know, and to be really authentic means that you show up weird sometimes. It means you show up as you. And there's a risk that you might be rejected. But the chances are you're going to be more likely to be accepted because authenticity has an energy about it that is contagious. It makes people feel comfortable and relaxed. And when you take risks, it is a catalyst for others to want to take risks.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Yes, absolutely. And I love what you said about staying safe and staying stuck. Um, we also stay small because when we stay inside, like you were talking about the phobia piece. Um the problem is that, well, two things. One, to go in your direction, there's a uh a process that they use. It's called systematic desensitization, right? So where you are now in terms of the phobia versus, you know, being free of it. And you work with a therapist, um, a certified professional, not me. Um, I'm certifiable, but not a certified professional. Um, and you get to plot out the steps that take you from, you know, where you are to being free of the phobia. Like if you're afraid of spiders, maybe you start by looking at a picture of a spider, and then maybe you're at a zoo through the glass, and maybe you get to a point where you can actually hold a spider. Um, you know, Bob, this friend, my mom's friend, the head of tarantula named Bob. And in fact, my mother got to the point where she could hold a tarantula. I I have no idea what happened to get her there, but I was super impressed. Um the problem is it works the other way too, is that sometimes when we feel we're getting close to that edge of our comfort zone, then we just pull in a little further because it's like being on a cliff. Like I like heights, like heights when it's it's clear, like I'm in a building and there's glass. Love it. When you get me on the edge of a like something like standing on the edge of the Grand Canyon, I'm like, I don't think so. And rightly so, I'm clumsy. So um but we back off, and and unlike the cliff, when we do that, the comfort zone becomes smaller and smaller and smaller. And so what we think is safe is increasingly small. And the thing that we're not realizing or not admitting is that safe and happy are not the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Oh that is really good. Really, really good. Let that land, let that land. Safe and happy are not the same thing. Oh, that's so good. You know, taking risks trains your brain to believe that you're in the life that you're reaching for, right? It's like, oh, I deserve that or I can live that life, right? Whereas avoiding risks uh trains your brain to settle for the one you already know. And so so many people settle. And they settle, and that's that whole component you just said there, like safe does not equate happiness. Ooh, that's so good. What more could you say along those lines?

SPEAKER_00 18:14

It's funny, if you don't mind. There's a poem I wrote, and it's Oh, there's a wonderful book I can pull from. Oh, yeah, it's a wonderful book. Oh promotion. Um, but there's a little poem, and it it it's funny. It came to me way before this book, and I think, but this was one of the clicks. My brain was trying to tell me something like there is a piece of us I think that is the adventurer that's inside of us. It may just be deeper than others. And when I say adventure, it doesn't mean you have to go off exploring Antarctica. It may just mean that you go, finally go on that roller coaster you want to go, or maybe you go to the, you know, I don't know, to the the sugar-filled aisle of the grocery store. I whatever your thing is, you don't other people don't get to judge what our mountains are or what our challenges are. We get to like determine our risks and we have to be honest with ourselves. We're really taking them. And this this was one of the things that just showed up to me. And it's and so I kept it in the book because it feels like it was one of those clicks. And it says, My world is safe and thus small, neither of which protects me from the inevitable. Death comes either as the climax to a thrilling adventure or the welcome release from a passive existence.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Ooh. Wow. Powerful, powerful, so good. Well, I don't know if I want to go any further than that. I want that to land. And and for those listening, if if this has resonated with you, I highly recommend Rachel's book, Butterfly Goo. It's a ba available at Butterflygooook.net and also on Amazon. Rachel, this has been an amazing topic. Thank you for joining us. And for all those who are with us, take the risk. Until next time.