Ep.2: Survivor to Leading Expert in Toxic Family Systems: Dr Sherrie Campbell's Story

Dr Sherrie Campbell shares her story, as the child of two sadistic parents to escaping the toxic family system she grew up in, who then rebuilt her life from the ground up, becoming a trailblazer in the area of toxic family systems and healing from abuse. Hers is a story of hope for every survivor. She shares what helped her rebuild from nothing into the powerhouse that she is today. Hers is a story of hope, inspiration, rebuilding, reconnecting, boundaries, resilience, and reclaiming your own personal power. 

If you are the child who experienced abuse, or the protective parent up against an actively abusive counter parent, who worries about their children thriving despite what their other parent does or doesn't do, this is the conversation for you. 

You can find Dr. Sherrie Campbell on IG @dr.sherrie or at www.drsherriecampbell.com.

Visit: https://chantalcontorinescoaching.com to learn how to work with me.

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This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not legal advice.

Transcript

0:02

Welcome everybody to the Survivor's Playbook. If abusers can have a playbook, then why can't Survivors, and this is the podcast for every survivor of abuse, so that you can live lives that you love despite what the abuser in your life does, or doesn't do. It's chockfull of experts, survivors, and that powerful combination of survivors who have turned into experts. And I'm so excited to introduce Dr. Sherrie Campbell, who I've been wanting to connect with her for ages and she is so busy, obviously doing the work that she does with all the people that she sees in a week, so it's an honor to have her here. On that note, Dr. Sherrie, how did you get into this work? So I'm the OG actually in this field. I I grew up in a horribly toxic family. I'm among the 14% of people that had two incredibly toxic parents. There are nine marriages between my parents. A lot of divorce stuff, a lot of step sibling stuff, and just very neglectful, abusive parents. So I'm the first expert to actually tell her story, and I'm the first expert to make no contact into this professional space. I'm the first person to put it here. So it started an entire movement. I had no idea I would be starting a movement, but I was. Asking questions that were not being answered for me in books on, for example and it's great information, so this isn't anything to that, but my parents are not emotionally immature only. They are also sadistic. So I wasn't finding my way through where any expert was actually giving me permission to just let go and cut off and heal that way. I had to somehow stay attached, accept them for who they were. And I couldn't do that and heal. I just couldn't. I was lucky, in a sense that I was cut off. That was the game my entire childhood was to ostracize me, ignore me, pretend I don't exist, and then I beg back or I try to fix it, and I just stopped doing that and now I'm nine years free. And you cannot heal in the same environment that made you sick. And so Even though it was probably very painful for your parents to do that, it was probably the gift that just kept on giving for you. That you were able to actually walk away and, which is such a hard thing for a child to do. No child wants to do that. We bend over backwards to get any kind of modicum of affection and attention we possibly can from our parents and so to be able to walk away. Hit rock bottom and there's no ability to, move forward because you're stuck, you're stagnant, which is what abusers want. They want to create confusion and chaos and have us tethered to them with the hope, because abusers aren't abusive all the time. They oftentimes give you just enough hope to keep you attached and keep trying and keep working. And a child doesn't stop loving their parent. No, we don't. I still love my parents. I don't like or respect them. So I don't have people that I like or respect in my life, period. But I think love's like the liver. It just regenerates itself. Although they wish me a tremendous amount of harm, I do not wish them harm. I don't think about them in any sort of way like that. They're quite scary. They're scary people. But I would say that my parents are bad people with good moments. They are not good people with bad moments. And that's in, in one of my many books that I've written on the topic. But that distinction for me was everything. Yeah. Recognized that they were good people. They were not good people with bad moments. They were really bad people with good moments. And those good moments create the hope and I always say hope is dope, and then it's your rope. I love that as an English and psychology major, I love acronyms, and I love things that rhyme. Hope dope and rope. But that is the same cycle of abuse that you experience, in either a parent child relationship or a partner to partner relationship as well, or friend to friend. Abuse happens. It could even be in the workplace. Absolutely. And this is the thing is once you start to understand abuse, you see it everywhere. It's not simply just in, family systems, although it's often very prevalent there as well, but it extends everywhere in every facet of life. And this is why education is so critical, so that people understand what abuse looks like. And it's not always apparent, it's not always obvious. It's oftentimes very insidious. And it does come with a lot of good stuff. These people typically present to the outside world as caring, generous, gregarious, charming, helpful, benevolent but it's only the select few that they choose to abuse behind closed doors that really see the full extent of the abuse. Yeah. So how, as a child, you didn't just have one parent, you had two parents. So how did you build from zero to where you are. And I think we need to acknowledge the fact that you blazed a trail for other people to follow in your footsteps. And that must have been also very isolating. There wasn't a lot of people like you at the beginning. And now there's a lot of people. No, I was getting annihilated. I was getting annihilated. You're breaking up the American family. You're destroying families, the abuse that I took was like, it just doubled the dose of my pain. It did not, but I recognized that I was gonna write about no contact with family. And my skin got real thick, real quick. And in some ways it was isolating. But I gotta tell you, I had no idea how many me were out there. Being on Call her Daddy really put me out there. And then I've become very close friends with Kristin Cavallari. Based on our stories. And I was on her show a couple of times, but really I made it to the TEDx stage with this, and it has almost half a million views at this point. And this is the thing is that you've taken your pain and it's propelled you. Yeah. It's become your passion. And so yeah, I turned my predators to a purpose. I wanted to do something useful with what was done to me and what continues to be done to me. So I just wanted to make it useful and I really don't feel isolated. I certainly go through feeling burned out. Simply because my life is so focused here and I have 40 patients every week. I have a very large waiting list to get in. I cannot spend as much time on social media as other experts get to do because I'm just. So busy, and I have my podcast that's weekly now. I'm trying to split myself in all these pieces so that I can help as many people as humanly possible, as many people as I can. But I guess I want more than like social media momentum where I'm on it all day and getting momentum. I want an impact. I really prefer books, writing books to, to social media. I just went viral on a topic I made up in my office. On the low effort family. Yes. I made that up. That went completely viral. So I'm writing that book and I've got enough. Of course you are. Of course you are. Yeah, I'm not, and I've got a book dropping in April. I'm editing one has to be edited by the 15th of August. And this book coming out's probably my favorite of all the books, it's incredibly creative. I created a whole house of wholeness. And I move people through the process that I do in my office to try and really get what I'm doing out there. And it's in a very creative language. There's like monsters in the basement and boundary setting, bootcamp outside and it, you're moving. I love that between the floors and learning to navigate between floors and it's a really creative, fun wonderful book and I'm so excited for it, but I can't wait to read it. Thank you. I feel like having an impact is more important for me than momentum. Because I get really burned out. Yeah.'cause I have so many areas that I'm spreading myself, but the fact that I have such a beautiful community of people that we're growing and we're healing together and I can take advantage of social media or my podcast and I can answer some of their questions in a brief few moments. Are, is really great and it's cathartic. It really is cathartic to be able to take what you've experienced and be able to help other people, which is, I totally understand the written, the on air through podcasts, any way to reach people. And it's not about us. It's not about, an an ego boost. It's the more people can hear you and see you and access you, that the more help you can impart, the more lives you can change because this journey is so isolating. It's so very isolating. People don't understand how isolating abuse is. And it's by very definition A person who's isolated, who's exhausted, who's confused, is so much easier to manipulate. But when you start to talk about it, you start to realize that so many people are just like you. And their stories might have, nuances and variances that differ from yours, but the commonalities is really what connects you to other people. Yeah, I really think that it is and I think you end up with a fraley. Yeah. I think you end up with a fra and I feel very close to my following. And I, I would rather have like really high engagement, just knowing that there's an impact there.'Cause I think that all the people are super special, and also I've run into some followers that are very toxic. Yeah. And maybe they're not conscious of that or they're identifying with an aspect of their families that's toxic, but they're not recognizing that it's in their own behavior. And after a while you can start to see some of that. We're all healing. Yeah. And, some of us can, and some of us just perpetuate the sad story and you can tell who stays in that sad story and who's ready to let it be where it lives. But live a life outside too, yeah. Getting out into your life and learning to love your life and I am really a happy human being and I love my little life that I have. And but you worked really hard to create too. This is not given to you. Yes. You were not given a healthy, happy life to love. You actually fought against tremendous odds to create this life. Yes. I'm very rebellious. Good. I would tell you that I am very rebellious and I've always been rebellious. I've got a DHD, so it was probably part of that. ADHDers tend to be the scapegoat of a family. Which I was. But I am very rebellious and that rebellious, I encourage people to be healthily rebellious, right? You wanna be rebellious for you. You wanna be rebellious for standing for yourself and for making sure that you're living the life that you want.'cause you can do that. And this is the thing, we aren't exceptional people, we are just people who suffered and we made conscious choices to heal. And a lot of people don't do the healing work because it's hard and it's scary and it's painful, which is why a lot of people perpetuate the same cycles of abuse that they were raised in or, grew up in because you just go with what you know, and it's just easier. But to stop that cycle, to choose you, you actually make a choice. And we have choices every day that we're presented with. Even if we didn't make the choice to have a, to come from an abusive family or to be partnered with an abuser, we make choices. And for you, you had two parents, not just one. One is horrible enough, but to have two, there was no healthy buffer for you there. No. It's stepsiblings, stepparents all over the board, so it's probably toxicity everywhere. Everywhere. They didn't pick good people, let's put it that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was really challenging.'cause my life was constantly, the bottom was falling out constantly. I was suicidal by fifth grade and I knew what it was. I was too scared and I didn't know how to do it. But I would pray at night that I would be taken. And then I would be like, I don't believe in God if I woke up in the morning. But little things just to help me through. And I talk about that a lot in the three books so far that I've got written on Toxic Family is, little House on the Prairie gave me an idea. I read those books like crazy when I was little. I'm failing outta school, but I'm reading an entire series of books because school wasn't helping me to go home. So I do think you do have to make a choice. I think it's really important to be rebellious for yourself and to really learn that you're allowed to step into your own power. And how do you do that? Boundaries are typically the way that you do that. I think boundaries are horribly misunderstood in our society. And I write about it. Very much in depth in my, my, my books on toxic family, on what they really are.'Cause I think they're horribly misunderstood and, boundaries are really for you controlling your own behavior. Yes. Controlling yourself to not engage. They're not gonna go Okay. Yeah. Set a boundary. I'm gonna change my behavior for you. If they love you, they will. Yeah. But if they're toxic, they won't. So you have to really have self-control. And not to engage and to stay the distance and to remain No contact as they're boundary testing. And they're throwing stones at your house and they're, they're trying to break in. And rob you blind of your sense of self. And I think you have to be very rebellious and steadfast. I always tell my followers, shut your mouth, use your feet, take your feet, move your body. It's a boundary. You don't need to do any of this. Yeah. Yep. It's not gonna work. And this is the right, is a toxic person is not going to respect your boundaries. So it's easy to create boundaries, it's hard to enforce them. To heal boundaries are such an important foundational tool. To actually understand your own worth and to understand what you need to have a peaceful life. Not about controlling other people, it's about controlling who you allow access to yourself. Especially as you're vulnerable and you're healing and you're doing the work. You need less toxicity and more support. And boundaries truly are the foundation of that. And I also talk about that a lot because it's, and they're hard, especially if you've been conditioned for a lifetime to not have boundaries, to think that boundaries are bad, that you are selfish or high maintenance or difficult or toxic for having boundaries, but they really are the gift that keeps on giving, and it's how you create a peaceful life despite what they're doing in the background. They're never gonna stop. They're always gonna tantrum, be they a partner or a parent. Or a coworker. Or your boss. They're always gonna be, they are never gonna change. So for anything to change, you have to be the person who does the changing truthfully, and to really become an advocate for yourself. Yeah. And that's really scary, especially if you've been conditioned to be silent. And a tiptoe and make yourself as small as humanly possible and contort. No one else is gonna do this for you. And that is the hard lesson too. Yeah. I think defenses like people pleasing are 100% necessary when you're food home and shelter dependent. Yep. Absolutely. Don't think there's anything wrong with having that habit. I think you needed that. But as you mature, your defenses also need to be outgrown and changed. So they can fit the new level of the human being that you are. People pleasing kicked my ass as an adult, so I had to really learn to be, again, more rebellious in an effort toward I have rights and I'm gonna stand in those rights. And if you don't like me. Then I'll have to face that feeling of abandonment, but you're not for me. And if you're not for me, you don't get to be in my life. Yeah. And that's the ultimate boundary is you don't have to change. But this is my boundary and you either go along with it and if you don't, that's okay. There's no hard feelings. But you are no longer the person that I need in my life. That's right. And that's the hard thing, especially if you're a people pleaser, is creating and then enforcing those boundaries. Now, for you when you started, I mean we like we talk about this like it was easy, that we just came outta the gate one day and said, okay, I'm gonna create boundaries and I'm gonna enforce them. But it's hard and it's also scary and it's daunting. Oh, it's terrifying. Yeah. Because we've been conditioned to acquiesce, we've been conditioned to align. We've been conditioned to submit as a, form of survival. Be it like a, I was cut outta wills for my daughter. My daughter they, my grandmother left money for my daughter's college education and I was blocked from it by my mother. Yeah. She wanted to starve me back. Instead of repair, let's use the trust and we'll starve her back and, she can keep the money. I walked away, I don't want it. But that, that, my own mother would do that to me was scary. Oh yeah. She would send broken shattered gifts to my house with no gift receipt and I had to learn to think in terms of. If I send it back, she's gonna say, I broke it. And I did that to be mean to her, so I can't send it back. There's no gift receipt. I can't replace it. So she wants me to call her. Yeah. Because she didn't pack it as fragile. I just threw it away. And that again, is a boundary, right? You put your mouth, use your body, use your feet. Yeah, you just threw it away. At some point that became so abusive through the mail that my therapist was like, they did it to my daughter on her 16th birthday. They destroyed her present, that they sent her no gift receipt. So I finally sent a. Four sentence note, if you continue to send gifts and cards this way, they're gonna be returned or donated. So please stop. And at that point, the whole rest of my family cut me off. Now of course, she's not telling them what she did with the presents. Absolutely not. No. Even the other day I had someone from childhood was very strange. Two guys that I knew from childhood within two days reached out to me and one said. I never ever knew you had it rough. You were always so sweet to me. He has no idea how triggering that was for me. Because, so you just think she's gonna abuse me publicly and honestly, I'm still super sweet. Yeah. I'm sorry that you didn't bear witness to it and it's just shocking. But yeah, she runs charities for like children and she, it's insane. And then another one was from kindergarten and he used to chase me. He chased me and I hate being chased. Yeah. And so he told me, I remember he said it made him smile, but he, I put him up on the teeter totter and I got off. Because I really desperately wanted him to stop chasing me. I would tell the teacher, they would chase me. I did not like it. And he is it's one memory I look back on and I'm fond of, and I'm like, oh my God. Yikes. I'm so sorry. So sorry about the seesaw, but he said, I never thought my parents were toxic until I started reading your books. And so it's weird when ghosts from the past come back and all of these things are hard. Yeah. And it doesn't necessarily matter how far along you were when someone says they never would've imagined you were abused. I think he means it as a compliment, but it can come off to someone like me as duh. Yeah. Like it can come off some type of way because the image that our abusers promote is so pristine and so giving and she's got an outdoor personality and then she's got the personality that I lived. Yeah. Which is totally different. Yep. Totally different. And I just thought, oh, that must be normal. Like this must be normal. And when I'd go to other people's families and they seemed so normal, I figured, that's probably'cause they have guests. Like I just didn't have any other refuting evidence to know outside the fact that my parents were on a marriage marathon did I know that things were bad. But. It's really hard. This is not for the faint. No, it's hard every day. I still have nightmares now and again, they're not as much as they used to be, but every now and again I'll get wake up whoa, my God. Okay. But I journal and I do the work, and I would tell the listeners that. Responsibility is totally synonymous with mental health. So be as responsible as you can be physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, relationally, and financially. Don't be afraid of responsibility. You're never gonna meet an irresponsible, mentally healthy person ever. So that's so powerful. Be responsible, be rebellious. Be on top of your finances. Be on top of your health. It's not a grind. Let it be a passion. Yeah. I wrote for Entrepreneur Magazine for many years as one of their top writers, and I have a book called Success Equations, A Path to an Emotionally Wealthy Life. And it's all about leadership and leading yourself. Like happiness isn't something I have. It's something I do. Yeah. I choose. Confidence isn't something I have. It's something I do. Motivation isn't something I have sometimes I really have to force. I'm in perimenopause, okay. Me too. Know there's just times and these things wax and wane. And it's all okay that they wax and wane and just do your best to be as responsible, not perfect. Yeah. Just do your best to be as responsible as you can and life is so much easier. You enjoy your free time more fully'cause you haven't been procrastinating or whatever. It's, this healing is, there's so much hope. Because it's all in your control. Yes. And this is the thing, right? It's there's a lot of stuff outside of our control, and if we focus on that, then we become inundated and overwhelmed by things that we can't control. But the only thing in life that you can control ever, is you. So when you focus on what you can control and you invest in yourself because you are your own best investment, right? When you invest the time, the energy, the money, and the resources into yourself and do the work, right? This is not easy. Healing is not a destination. It's a journey. And you're gonna take two steps forward and a step back, and that's okay. There's gonna be days where you wanna cocoon and cry, and that's okay. And there's gonna be days where you feel like you've, you could conquer anything and anything that is given to you. But it's to keep putting in the effort. We all make choices. You can choose to feel helpless and hopeless for the rest of your life. You can choose to say, okay, there's gonna be days where I feel horrible, but I choose happiness. I choose peace. I choose, to be financially responsible. And also it's very liberating, especially if you come from a toxic family system where money is used to control, right? That's the Oh yeah. Easiest way to control people. You cut them off, you give them money, right? Oh, I'm gonna, so long as you do what I say, I'm going to pay for your, for your mortgage and pay for your children's education. But if you dare go against me, all that becomes cut off. If you aren't financially independent, then you are going to be severely hurt by that, or have to make choices that you probably wouldn't or shouldn't, based on your, being tethered to people who control you financially or emotionally. That's right. I always say in one of my books, I say they worship the god of green paper. Because it allows them to play God. Yeah. Yeah. I don't need that. God, in fact, some people are so poor that all they've got is money. Yes. I love that. And that's so true. It's so true. I truly believe that being responsible really makes life simple. As hard as it is, yes. It's hard to be responsible, but once you get into just being responsible and then it just becomes something that you don't even have to think about. Yeah. I think because no one was responsible with me or for me or because of me. Then I didn't know how to do that. I was very reckless with myself. I was choosing bad love partners. I was choosing bad friends. I was choosing unhealthy situations. I wasn't taking care of my body. I wasn't taking care of myself'cause no one took care of me. I didn't model that for myself. To switch into being responsible has made my life feel super simple. It's just simple. The worst thing that happens to me is I get burned out. Yeah. And again, you can control yes, what you put your energy into, right? So yeah, as a person who's responsible, you can look at your life and say, okay, I can't take on these commitments as much as I would like to, because the more I can do, the more people I can help you say long term, that's gonna make me burn out. So as a responsible human. Maybe I should pair back right now and press pause and say no. No is a complete sentence, and you don't have to have justification for why you say no to people or engagements or, opportunities. It's about knowing yourself and knowing yourself so well inside and out, that you know what is healthy for you and you know what's unhealthy for you. Even if it's not a bad thing, it just might be too much right here and now. That's right. That's right. And I think that I get away two weeks every year. Per, I make sure I just got back from vacation late last night and. It was just so refueling and it, was I, it was wonderful. It was just wonderful to get away with my person and we had the best time and we road tripped it. It was our first road trip oh, we love road trips, seventies music playing the whole time, and we had the best time. And he surprised me with a lot of wonderful things. And just being open to receiving love is really important too, because we wanna protect our hearts and there's things that sneak up on us, right? And sometimes the bottom falls out. And, but the thing about being a survivor is we are so skilled in the bottom falling out. Like we're, yeah. We're better at it than most. I look around and I'm like at least I have the skill. I'm not gonna have the bottom fall out. And I won't have any idea, there's no coping skills there for me.'cause I've been, the bottom's been falling out since I came out. I feel like I'm pretty skilled bear and I think you are too. And it's looking at that as a skill. Imagine, my boyfriend has a pretty charmed life. He's had very little trauma, and there are days that I'm like, oh, I worry about him a little because he doesn't really have any coping skillset. When the shit hits the fan yeah, I. We're getting older, his parents are getting older. Like he's gonna face that in his life, in a way that like my father passed. It was just very different kind of grief that I would have than he's gonna have. Right? And of course, I'll be there to love and support him through all of those changes in his life when those happen. But. I have all these skills okay, lemme pull out my toolbox. We can use this, we can use this. And he, I don't know what's in his. And so in a way, it's a gift. There are ways to see this as an incredible gift. I think the oldest souls come into this life and have we, we were built to do this. And I believe that in this lifetime, I'm very built to do this. This is my purpose here in this lifetime, is to share in this journey and give people a path in the snow up the mountains and some footsteps to follow. And what a gift it is that you're giving people who are coming behind you, right? This is, and it, and I've said it before and I've said it here, it's so cathartic to be able to take what you've experienced, not let it kill you It is powered you. It's been a fuel for good. And you haven't played the victim, even though you have every right to play the victim. This is not to victim shame, but people get stuck and they get stuck in the woe is me and I can't believe this. And that's part of your healing is saying, yep. That I did not deserve that. There was nothing about me as a child or an adult who deserved that kind of treatment. But it's my responsibility to do the work, to heal and to grow and to learn and to live. And that's why this is so important. This is why talking, this is why you overextend yourself and your books and your therapy, and your podcasts, and your TEDx and your engagements and your commitments, right? Is because knowledge truly is power. And the more we talk about it, and the more we have these conversations and we write about this stuff, the more people can say, Hey, that sounds like me. And I'm not alone. And yes, I'm at the bottom right now, but look at this person. They were also at the bottom at some point, and now they've climbed themselves out of that bottom. It's not perfect. Life is not perfect. There's still gonna be setbacks and issues. We're still gonna be grieving, we're still gonna be healing, licking our wounds. There's gonna be days where we just don't wanna get outta bed, but we keep going forward, we keep making the momentum forward and then in a community like this, you're not alone. No. Like I, I do a thankful Thursday video every Thursday, and I encourage people to tell me something they're thankful for and it inspires everybody else who's in the thread. It's easy to forget that we can be so thankful for so many parts of this journey, including the pain. Like we wouldn't know up if we didn't know down. I think my capacity to experience joy it far outreaches, maybe someone else's who's. Never not had joy. I just appreciate joy so much deeper.'cause I know something else so deeply. So it's opposite is such a beautiful experience for me. I just appreciate every morsel of the joy that I feel. And I think that those are gifts, I think having a highly developed EQ comes from pain. So I think that there are so many gifts to this. Learning to see them as gifts is the challenge. And this is the hard thing. Yeah. Because it's not that you feel good about what's gone on in your life, but you can still feel good about going from a piece of coal into a diamond. Yes. Yes. I will always feel sad that I didn't have a strong parental system. I get to be around one in my boyfriend's family. It's a divorced family and they're both remarried and they've got great marriages and but they're not my family. And they love me and I love them and they love my daughter and she loves them. And but I recognize that we only get one set of parents and lots of people have wanted to come in and bonus mom me or bonus dad, me. They just can't they cannot fill those shoes. They would never unconditionally love me the same way that a parent would, there are certain things that you would never be able to ask of a bonus mom or dad that you could ask of a parent. And so it's just different. I love them and I appreciate them, but that's a hole in my Swiss cheese. Yep. And always gonna be a hole in my Swiss cheese. So I have to learn to not fall in that hole all the time. And I love the cheese reference'cause I'm a cheese lover, you know there's a God if there's cheese, right? Mean whatever your belief system is, there's cheese. There's cheese, there must be a God. And so thank you so much for being here Of course, and for showing people that there is hope no matter where you are in this journey. If you're just starting out or you are, climbing your way out of from the very bottom there is we aren't exceptional people. Yes. We've just we've chosen. We've made conscious cognizant choices to change our life and to, to make the best of the life that we have and to find happiness. And pain and happiness can coexist, right? Just because you're happy doesn't mean you, you don't experience pain and you can have them at the same time. But it's choosing to focus on what's going to propel you forward. And really that always comes down to you. Always. Yeah. I love that saying in the word impo, impossible is I am possible. Oh, I love that. So something to leave the listeners with is in that word, impossible is I am possible. And yes, you are. And I love that. Thank you so much Dr. Sherrie for being here. And thank you everybody for listening. Thank you for taking the time outta your very full schedule, especially'cause you just came back from vacation last night. Thanks. Welcome. And I'm so glad we were able to connect and I can't wait to be on your podcast as well. I can't wait. I'm excited. Me too. Thank you so much Dr. Sherry. You're welcome, honey. You bet. Have a great day. You too. Bye bye. Thanks for listening to The Survivor's Playbook. If today's episode helped you feel less alone, more confident, more educated, more empowered, please share it with somebody else who you think might also need this. And if you're ready for deeper support, you can join my monthly membership or grab free tools@chantelchantelscoaching.com. The link is in the show notes. Remember, your clarity is your power. Your calm is your resistance. You are not crazy. You are not alone and you are not powerless. Until next time, keep going. I see you.