Ep.4: Finding your Passion and Purpose After Abuse

In this episode, I talk to the amazing Kelly Sutliff, a psychotherapist, a DV survivor, and the founder of a nonprofit Kelly's Canine. She was married for only 11 months, with no joint assets and no children, but her divorce took over 4 years. After the first and only instance of physical abuse, a series of horrific instances that were meant to end her life, Kelly hit rock bottom in the aftermath of this episode. But, she managed to climb back out and has created a life that she would never have imagined. This is her story. This is her climb. This is her finding her passion and her purpose to live a life she loves. 

You can find Kelly on social media:

on IG @real_talk_with_kelly,

her professional work at@thrive.therapy.services 

and her nonprofit @kellys_k9s_tailsofcourage

And if this episode resonated with you, please save it, follow me, and share it with a friend or friends. 

Visit: https://chantalcontorinescoaching.com to learn how to work with me.

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https://chantalcontorinescoaching.myflodesk.com/free-how-to-guide

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Follow me on Instagram: @chantal.contorines.coaching

This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not legal advice.

Transcript

0:03

Welcome everybody to The Survivor's Playbook. I'm your host, Chantal Contorines. This is the podcast for every survivor of abuse. If abusers can have a playbook, why can't survivors also have a playbook so that we can actually live our best lives despite what the abusers in our lives do or don't do. And today, we have a survivor and an expert advocate, and I'm so excited to have her. I've been following her for forever. And I feel like I know her in depth even though, this is the first time I've actually connected with her outside of social media. And her name is Kelly Sutliff she is a DV survivor. She's also a psychotherapist, and she also runs a nonprofit called Kelly's Canines. Thank you so much, Kelly, for being on today and for taking the time outta your full life and schedule to impart some knowledge, hope, tips and tricks for people who are listening and following along. Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited about this podcast. I think what you're doing is so important for survivors. So thank you for having me as a guest. I appreciate it. Now let's talk about your life. How long have you been out of your abusive relationship? So I've been out, of my abusive relationship for a few years now. My ex Chris, pled guilty in October of 2022 to his criminal charges, which were aggravated assault by strangulation, criminal mischief, and possession of a deadly weapon. However, he dragged the divorce on for a year after that, so I really wasn't. Completely free from Chris until October of 2023. That is when the divorce officially went through. But as the abuse never stops. So even a few months after that I was still having to deal with some loose ends from the divorce in terms of signing papers and whatnot, which, can absolutely be a trigger getting the email from your lawyer that something else has to be done. I don't know if we're ever really. Free per se, but I'm no longer under any of his control now. I think that's the way I like to put it. Yeah, and that's the thing you touched upon something that's really important is that just because the relationship ends, just because the ink dries on your divorce decree doesn't necessarily mean that the abuse ends. In fact, most abusers continue to abuse. Long past all of the divorce and separation and relationship has come to an end. Why? Because abuse is always about power and control. And just because the relationship ends doesn't mean that their thirst? They're undying thirst for power and control over you ends. And what's really interesting about your specific case. You would think that without even knowing you, there probably were children involved because this took so long, but there weren't actually children involved in your relationship with your ex Chris. And so there was nothing to really fight about because and I remember that's actually how you and I really started communicating back and forth. You had posted something on your social media and I commented, I think it was a question to your audience about how long their divorce took. Yeah. And I was married for 11 months and my divorce took four years and we have no children. And to be honest with you, we really had no combined, things to separate. He lived in my home, but in the state of New Jersey because this was considered the marital home, he was able to fight me for it. So he was really coming after my house for that entire time. So again, married for 11 months, divorcing for about four years. And I can remember when I said that in, in a comment under your post, you were oh my God. And most people would think that we either had, shared items or whatnot or kids, but nope. And this right there, that's a giant red flag. You were married for less than a year, right? And it took you four years to actually extricate yourself from your abuser, and that right there really is, it's not a high conflict divorce, it would probably be, labeled as high conflict. But really it's just one party creating the conflict. Why? Because that's the only way he could continue to control you and to affect you and to infringe upon your peace and your healing and your thriving and your growing was to continue to legally abuse you. Exactly. And I hate to say it but the legal system just really allowed that abuse to continue. And, everyone knew it, who was a part of it, the judges and whatnot that he was the one delaying. Things, they would sanction him and whatnot but they still allowed him, continued with those antics. Absolutely, it was all about power and control, and it was all about keeping me at a standstill, not allowing me to move forward with my own life. And that is the very definition of an abuser. The relationship can end, but they don't want their control over you to end. And if you have no children, and there's nothing really to squabble over or to, contest, the easiest way to control a person is legally, because that's all forms of abuse wrapped into one beautiful little simplistic package. That's emotional abuse, that's mental abuse, psychological abuse, that's even physical abuse because the stress causes so many, long-term issues with your health. It's also financial abuse because you're having to pay And Oh my gosh, yes. And the system does in fact enable embolden and empower abusers. Because there's really no downfall for them. They can postpone delay, they can file motion after motion and nothing happens. They might get a slap on the wrist and they apologize and people are like, oh, he or she was sorry. They didn't mean to do that. Absolutely. And the sad reality is, I really believe that the system also profits. Oh yeah. Off of this as well. It's really a double-edged sword. They say that they, don't want course of control to occur within the system and abuse, but yet they're enabling it. And it seems that every single person within the system actually benefits from it somehow other than the actual people who are trying to terminate their relationship with their abuser. The good news is that you don't have children with this person. That is really the silver lining in all of this is that he can continue to abuse you, and just because you don't have children doesn't mean that he can't. He can still. I had another guest on and she was like, can you please not put my ex's name in the show notes? Because every time somebody does, he sues me. Right and right. They're obsessed. And I used that word the other day and I said, they're obsessed with hurting you and controlling you. And that ex obsession is not healthy. To be obsessed with something to me is a negative connotation, but they are obsessed with you, and that obsession doesn't go away. Exactly. Exactly. Even if they get remarried, even if they cheat on you and discard you in the worst possible way, even if they have children and have this new beautiful picture, perfect Instagram worthy family with a picket fence and two dogs. The moment you start to try to heal, the moment you try to create boundaries, the moment you try to create a life outside of their vortex really triggers them and it really activates Absolutely. Because I think it, it's a really, we know narcissists and psychopaths. It's a blow to their ego. Yeah. And once you bruise their ego, that's when they fight back. And that's the way they fight back, is through power and control and trying to have power and control over you. And so how have you,'cause your story, I don't know how much you wanna go into your story, but your story was what most people would qualify as domestic violence, because it has the word domestic and it has the word violence in it. And we typically erroneously believe that domestic violence is only physical stuff, that it doesn't include all the other forms of abuse that never have to be a raised voice or a raised hand. But you experienced a lot of actual violence, physical violence, where you were scared for your life. I did unfortunately and for those who, might not follow me and just be hearing my story for the first time, I, my story was featured in the premier episode of Toxic on Investigation Discovery, which now can be streamed on Max. So if someone wanted to jump on and watch it, you can get a little bit more of an idea of my story, but yes. So very long story short, the incident that they show in the show that was actually the first time Chris ever laid a hand on me that was really. The first time we ever even got into a fight and it ended up escalating where Chris strangled me three times, threw my head, through a sheet rock wall, threw me into the bedside table where I lost consciousness. I lost consciousness when I threw my head through the sheet rock wall as well. He held in military knife to my throat and he also poured a bottle of Xanax down my throat, trying to get me to swallow the pills. I was not supposed to make it out alive that night. By the grace, I was not, and I escaped and I was able to get to my neighbors where they called 9 1 1. The police showed up and the physical violence was brutal, and it was awful. But as I say in the show, and I've said every day since, I have to be honest with you, it, it doesn't even pale in comparison to the psychological abuse that I have dealt with almost every single day since the physical violence occurred. The stalking, the online harassment with the fake accounts and whatnot. The games in both criminal court that Chris and his attorneys played as well as family court. That psychological abuse was just as bad, if not worse, than the physical violence that I endured. And I've heard that so many times from, clients, members within my membership and also friends who've experienced the gamut. They've experienced every form of abuse by an intimate partner, and they've all said the same thing. It's that the psychological, mental and emotional abuse is actually far more damaging, to them than the physical abuse. And at least with the physical abuse, there was proof. There was proof right here in what could be seen. When it's stuff that happens that doesn't leave an actual mark, it's so much more damaging, a, because people don't necessarily believe you. It's really hard to pinpoint one. If you just talk about one incident, they're like, maybe he or she was having a bad day. Just might be a communication problem. But it's a series of events, it's a pattern of behavior. And it's insidious and it's hard to define. It's hard to define as a victim survivor that much harder to define to other people who don't even know what coercive of control is, doesn't know what abuse looks like. It's not just a one off, it's a death by a billion paper cuts. Not even a million. Absolutely. A thousand. And I think you really hit the nail on your, on the head when you said it's so incredibly insidious and then it's hard to get people to believe. I'll give you a great example. So one of the things my ex, I don't know if I mentioned it, but his name is Chris. So one of the things Chris did, and I laugh about it now, but at the time it certainly wasn't funny. He, one of the things he always used to do in our relationship, he would bring me home, treats, flowers and one of the things he would always bring me home was chocolate covered pretzels. So one morning, obviously after the incident happened and I had moved back into my house after it was fixed, I woke up in the morning and my dogs ran to the edge of my fence and they were eating something and I ran out there.'cause I'm thinking what are they eating? And the all along the back of my fence are chocolate covered. Pretzels and that's how good Chris was because the way I describe it is I called my lawyers and I said to my lawyer, who do I make this report to? Willy Wonka? I can't call the police'cause they're gonna think I'm crazy. So that's just a perfect example of the insidious. Psychological abuse that these abusers, do to their victims. Yeah. I couldn't make that report because they'd certainly think I was crazy, but that was Chris's way of, I a think he was trying to hurt my dogs by poisoning them.'cause chocolate is death is, deathly to dogs and b he was saying to me, I can get to you. Yeah. Yep. I don't have to be on your property, but I can still get to you. And I'm watching. Yeah. So that also adds in this element of paranoia. I was constantly looking over my shoulder, and then you go through the stages of that where I didn't know who I could trust anymore. I, everyone in my life, I hate to say it, but I questioned at some point are they talking to Chris? Still is this, is this, like this gang up against Kelly? It, it's a really awful way to live. And that's why I say like the physical abuse it was one and done. The bruises faded the scars, I don't look at but the psychological abuse it just. Continued. Continued and that's really what beat me down. And that is exactly it. It's continuous and it's mentally exhausting and emotionally exhausting and to live your life in a state of constant fear. And he literally has to do very little. He doesn't actually have to do much anymore. He can just be on the fringes, on the periphery, and it's so very isolating. You do lose trust in people because these people are very adept at painting a narrative to those people who are in their circles, who could have also been part of your circle when you were actually in the relationship together of, woe is me, I'm the victim, and she's the villain. Or he's the villain. In your case, you're a she, and that's where the smear campaign comes in and it further isolates victims. And also you now become so isolated because you can't trust anybody. Exactly. And I, and that's exactly what happened. I, I didn't leave my house for probably about a year I would go to places, I would go to Quick Check and CVS, and I was like a little OCD about it. I was so fearful that he would do something to my home or do something to my dogs that I'd give myself 15 minutes to go to one of those two places. I'd call my neighbors and say, Hey, I'm leaving the house. Please look at my, watch my house, and if I'm not back in 30 minutes, something is wrong. And I lived that way for a really long time. And like you said, it was. Exhausting. Exhausting to live like that. And so how did you go from that? Because that really is truly, your domestic violence incident, that what actually happened where he actually, tried to kill you in various forms. He tried one way and then another way. But I don't think that was actually your rock bottom. It wasn't it. The rock bottom occurred after that when I was going through the system and I, I personally felt that in my situation and I've heard a lot of other survivors say the same thing. That going through the system was just as abusive as dealing with our abusers. Yeah, as sad as that is, so when I realized that the system I thought was designed to help me wasn't helping me and that, Chris was stalking me and really putting me through psychological torture, that was my rock. Bottom. And one day I just said to myself, I looked at myself in the mirror and I can remember this specifically, and I was withering away. I looked exhausted. I had lost so much weight, and I really did not recognize the woman staring back at me. And I remember at the beginning of my whole, my whole story, I always lived by this motto of, I wanted to make decisions where I could still look at myself in the mirror. Like I wanted to be able to make a decision that I was proud of. And in that moment when I was, and I'm gonna get emotional, but when I was looking at myself in the mirror, I wasn't happy with who I was looking back at. And it was at that moment that I decide I was not gonna allow him to control my life anymore. And that's when I started to take my own power back. Chris at one point had my gun taken away and whatnot, so I really had zero safety. And in August of 2020, that's when I started to take my power back and that's when I got my first protection dog, Stella. That was a defining moment for me when I think I started to step into the role of survivor from victim. And that's when I started to feel more confident. When I started to leave my house, because I brought my dog who was trained in bite work and protection everywhere with me. That's when I started, training, continuing her training, and I just felt so empowered. So that's really how I started to crawl out of the depth of despair that I really found myself in. And that is so very powerful because this is what abusers want, is to strip us of who we actually are so that we look at ourselves in the mirror and we don't even recognize who we once were. We don't know who we are, what our passions are, what our likes are, what we want from life, because we're stuck in survival. And that is not a way to live. Yes, you've escaped your abusive relationship. Whatever form of abuse you endured you've escaped that. But now you're still living a half a life, a part life, not even half a life, a quarter life, like a exactly 0.0, zero 1% of a life You're existing, you're surviving, but you're not actually living. You're not healing, you're not growing, you're not experiencing life outside of abuse. And again, Chris didn't really have to do much He just had to rear his ugly head every now and then remind you that he was in power, and then you just shrunk and you just kept shrinking and shrinking. Until you were merely surviving. Barely surviving. And it's so powerful to hear that it was just one moment. And that's often what it is. When you're in the relationship, it's just one moment you've, thought about leaving, you thought that this wasn't healthy, but it just takes one moment, one moment where you, it's a eureka moment and a light bulb goes off and you say, I want more for myself. Exactly, and I think you, again, you hit the nail on the head when what, with what you said, when, when I looked at myself in the mirror at that point, I realized that even though he wasn't an active part of my life anymore, he still held so much control over me. And then I started to figure out the ways of, here's the ways I can start to take some of my power back. And little by little, taking those bits and pieces of power back allowed me really to feel alive again. Empowered, and that's because abusers strip you of your sense of power. Even if you do still hold power you do actually feel powerless to affect change, to protect yourself, to create a life you love, to move on, to get out of their grasp and you wanted to feel empowered and you did it in the most beautiful way possible. You armed yourself with a dog and a dog that you probably also loved very deeply, but also was a protection,. This dog, Stella. Absolutely. And I love Stella's name. I love when dogs have human names. I just find that so cute. And she was probably really cute, but also very ferocious. She's one of those animals? You don't wanna cross. Stella's lovely and probably loves belly rubs. Yeah. But also do not mess with her mom. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. She was the best thing that could have happened to me during this entire situation. She really was, because I I started to live again and I started to find enjoyment in living. So I didn't just live, I started to want to live. I explain it like for a while, I had my other dog, Chester, and when this incident happened, I had ran back into the house to save him. And after this happened, I lived because I knew I had to get up every day to take care of him. He was my reason for getting up in the morning until I became my own reason to get up every morning. And that's when Stella came in and she gave me my life back really. And is that when you started your nonprofit? No. I started training with Stella and then just really fell in love with everything about the training. My, my other dog, Chester, he, sadly, he was my sole dog. He passed away in June of 2022. And then I decided that I was going to get another German Shepherd puppy and I wanted to start competing with him. So that's when I got Luca. And I really started training that dog myself from the minute he came home along with the trainer and then started competing with Luca. And it wasn't until about a year and a half ago. In, so what is. We were in 25. So in, in 23 where I started thinking like, you know what? I wanna be able to give back what these dogs have given to me. And that's when the idea of Kelly's Canines Tales of Courage was born. And we launched in October of 2024, and we provide trained protection dogs free of charge to domestic violence survivors. I love that and the survivors. Thank you. It's it. We're so excited. There's nothing more therapeutic and cathartic and healing for survivors to be able to give back. And you're also enabling people to feel empowered and safe because there's nothing worse than living in a constant state of fear, be it physical fear, any kind of fear from your abuser. This is what they do, this is what they do to victims. And you're creating a new life for these people by doing something that you also love. Thank you. Yeah. It's been amazing. We just had our first survivor get through really the first phase of training because what we do is we bring the survivor, you're getting a trained protection dog, we're giving you a weapon. So you also have to be trained how to handle your weapon. So we bring the survivor and if they have a family, whoever is living in the house, the family joins in on the training at points during the training as well. And. You train with your dog to learn how to handle your dog. So we just had our first survivor, bring her dog home, get through the first part of training, and she echoes the same sentiments that I echoed when I first got Stella, how life changing this has been for her. Like she does things that before she had her dog, you would not catch her doing. And it's truly been the greatest gift of my life to be able to see her evolve. And this is, I'm getting emotional and I am not on at the receiving end of this, and I haven't created this foundation, but you're truly giving people a gift and a chance at living a life outside of fear. Thank you. And empowerment. This is the thing is when you are in an abusive relationship, you are disempowered. That is the very nature of abuse. So to give people their power back Yeah. It is life changing. It is. And that was, yeah, that was the most important thing to me because I knew what it was like to feel powerless and then I knew what, feeling more power, how healing that was for me. So that really is what we do with the nonprofit. It is, it's all about. Giving you your power back, not only physically, but emotionally too and I think that is the most important part, when we've just talked about abuse, it's the mental and emotional and psychological abuse that happens. So the counter of that is to empower yourself. And you are giving them the tools to be able to empower themselves, and to create lives that they love. Despite what they've endured, and we'll continue to endure because if they have been partnered with this type of person, the abuse doesn't end. It just morphs into post-separation abuse. But I can't think of a more powerful emblem, both like literally and figuratively than like a canine. It's true. And like we, we have dogs, my ex has our dogs, but we have two dogs who are German Shepherd Husky crosses and they're Seymour and Cypress. They're brother and sister. They're the most beautiful dogs. They're lovely. They'll roll over. You can pet their stomachs. They're the biggest sucks. But I knew when I had them that if we were ever to be crossed, if somebody was to ever come into my safe home. With anything other than good intentions. My dogs would be, they would not be the cute puppies that I knew them as. They would be ferocious protectors of my children and myself. And so I can't think, that's so powerful. What a powerful thing to be able to give to another survivor is their power back. And you're doing that in both your service because I'm sure it takes time and energy to be able to train these dogs before you're able to gift them to these survivors. And then they get to live. With more freedom and then build from that. You give them the first real step and block and foundation of that freedom, but then that just perpetuates more freedom and more strength and more power. Yeah, absolutely. Yep. You hit the nail on the head. That's exactly what happens, and it's amazing to be a part of that process with the survivors that, that we're helping and working with. And so how can people apply for this? Do they apply? Is there an application process? Do they go online? Yep. So you can go to our website and it's kellys canines.org and it's a, it's Kelly, K-E-L-L-Y-S, and then a K, and then the number nine, and then an s.org. There is an application right on there. They can fill that out. That application comes to us. We go through it and then we'll follow up with an email. And that's really how you get the process started. There's also a little bit of a tidbit on the website about how, what the training process looks like. Right now, because of the training requirements, we're really isolated to the East coast, but one of the things that we're talking about is expanding because I would love to bring this, hopefully nationally. That is the goal. So here's the thing is you've just started this not so long ago and not so long ago. From that, you were still in a very toxic relationship and a very abusive relationship. It only lasted 11 months theoretically, but it continued long past the 11 months, right? That's what the post-separation abuse looked like. It was four years of going through the court system to try to divorce a person that you had no common asset, shared things with, you didn't have children. And so in this time, you've not only taken back your own power and control, right? You went through the depths of hell, you hit rock bottom after the actual incident, and then you've climbed back out. And in that process, you've also created something for others, right? So you have extended. Your bucket to help other people who are still stuck in the fire. And I find that so very beautiful, not only for people on the receiving end of this kindness, because this is kindness, right? I mean you don't have to do this. You could just go on with your life, but you're choosing to help others who have faced similar, relationships and abuse as you have doesn't have to be the same.'cause every abuser is very similar, but every instance of abuse is different and every relationship is different. But people who have come out and. I love the fact that you've just created this. A year and a half is not a long time, and already you're looking at expansion on how you can help other people across the country. We are, and I have to, selfishly, this is also a part of my healing process. It's been so healing for me as well. So not only for other people. It's truly, it. It's been incredibly healing and a gift for me to be able to do this for others. And I think you just hit the nail on the head. So many people in this space, because you're also on social media, I'm also on social media. There's many people, experts, advocate survivors. Being able to give back to other people. Being able to help other people is truly part of the healing process, and it doesn't have to be such big gestures. You don't have to train canines and gift them to people. That's pretty huge. You don't even have to have a platform where you advocate for people, but it's in the small things. It's telling your story. It's being there for other people because I can guarantee if you have endured abuse, you know somebody else who's enduring abuse. Even if you're not cognizant right now of this actually happening, there are people in your community, in your circle, even your intimate circle, who are experiencing forms of abuse. And they might not even realize this. Part of healing, really healing, I think, for me at least, has been able to help other people and you've just reiterated that and so many people say the same thing. Being able to help other people once you're able to, not everyone's able to right away. People have a lot of trauma depending on your support system, but you're having to endure. That might take. Five months, five years, 10 years. But to be able to go back and then slowly start to help other people is so cathartic, so healing and so therapeutic. I agree. I couldn't agree more with you. Absolutely. And I think it's also because we knew what it was like to be where someone else is and I remember in those moments of despair who helped me and what they did to help me that I think it's, we wanna be able to do that for somebody else as well. But it takes a certain kind of person to be able to do it on the scale that you're doing it. You are doing it on a big scale. We're not saying that everybody has to do it the way that Kelly's doing it. That's a beautiful gift that she's able to impart upon other people, but it also nourishes her soul. And that's really important, it's helping you and it's also helping others. And so I think that if you can find that sweet spot where it's also helping you heal the parts of you that are unhealed while also giving back. Then it's the gift that keeps on giving. You're not, becoming a martyr. You're not, doing too much or extending yourself or overextending yourself and doing things that are helpful for other people, which many victims of abuse, we give until there's nothing left to give. So it's important that we find the sweet spot where we're also benefiting from it. That's not selfish. But you're also able to help other people. Absolutely. And I think in order, to help other people, you have to have that passion. You have to find whatever it is you are passionate about and lean into that. And this is what my passion is. And that's also, again, the gift that keeps on giving because you're doing something that you are passionate about. And when you're passionate about something, it's really never work. Like you never wake up really in the morning, go, oh, I can't believe I have to do this. You wake up and there's a bounce in your step, right? There's like a pep in your step. You're excited to tackle whatever it is you have to tackle, even if it's, the tedious paperwork. Because starting non-profits, starting businesses, there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that's not sexy people. But no, it's be able, then once you get, past that tedious stuff, the bookkeeping, all that sort of stuff, being able to do what you actually love to do, you'll never work. That's that's not work. And it's very soul filling. It fills up the parts of you that have been broken. Absolutely. So thank you so much Kelly, for coming on today and for sharing your story. I'm gonna have all the ways you can contact Kelly both professionally with her nonprofit.'cause remember she's also a psychotherapist,. She's a DV survivor. She is a mini celebrity. She's been on, a show Toxic and I think it did really well. And she also has her non-profit Kelly's Canines. She's here, she's on social media, so you're gonna get all the way to contact her website, social media, all those things in the show notes so that you can contact her because Kelly has so much to give to people in this area. And she's very unique. And she's exceptional. But truly, you don't have to be exceptional to be able to heal, to be able to give back, to be able to create a life that you love, and that's really important. Remember, we don't always have to have these big, grandiose ways to help people. It can be smaller. Absolutely. And thank you again so much for having me. I love what you're doing. I think it's so important. I can't, you're gonna help so many people and I can't wait to see all the people that you help. And I think, if I had any final words, it would be that, I know when you're going through what is supposed to destroy you, it feels like there isn't any light at the end of the tunnel. And if you asked me over five years ago if I would be where I am today. Thriving, enjoying life, moving on, feeling free. I would've laughed and told you. Absolutely not. So my advice is, hold on. I promise it gets better. Just put one foot in front of the other and take one minute, not even day. Take one minute at a time because there will come a day that it will not feel like it does today. And that's so very true and so very powerful because the healing. Healing is not a destination. It's a journey and will oftentimes take steps forward and then many steps back. And there'll be days where you just wanna lie in your bed and sob and you curl up into a ball because you just can't fathom getting out of bed. It's just too hard. And then there'll be other days where you can actually get up and make yourself a cup of coffee and sit on your patio and say hi to your neighbors. And it's all those little minutes, all those little minutia that add up and when you journal this stuff too, when you actually put pen to paper so you can actually see your growth and your progress, it's very cathartic. And so thank you so much for those last words. That's powerful in and of itself. And hope people press replay and rewind and listen to that over and over again. It is possible. It is possible you can go from the bottom and you can climb yourself right back out. And if we can do it, you can also do it. Absolutely. And there are people in your corner, even if you don't have community support.'cause so much about abuse is isolation. But if you don't have the community support, you can find that. You can create that for yourself. Absolutely. Absolutely. And the online community is a great place to find that. Yeah. At least to start right, at least to start your healing journey, to educate yourself and then to empower yourself and to feel more confident with yourself and your decisions and your outlooks and stuff. You just have to start. And you just have to get to a place where you feel like you deserve better than what you're currently enduring, that you, that there's so much more to life than this. Because there is, it doesn't mean that it goes away, it doesn't mean that life is easy, but you can have tremendous amounts of joy and pain and grief and stress. You can have those all together, but it's the overarching premise is that I still live a life that I love despite the abuse. So thank you so much, Kelly, for coming on. And thank you everybody for listening. Thank you so much for listening to The Survivor's Playbook. If today's episode helped you feel less alone, more confident, more empowered, and more educated, please share it with others who may also need it. And if you're ready for deeper support, you can join my monthly membership or grab free tools at chantalcontorinescoaching.com. The link is in my show notes. Remember, your clarity is your power. Your calm is your resistance. You are not crazy. You are not alone. You are not powerless. Until next time, keep going. I see you.