Ep. 18: Let's Talk About ACEs with Dr. Torie

In this episode, I talk to the amazing Dr. Torie-ACEs educator, author and speaker- about all things ACEs (Adverse Childhood Experiences, how our children are impacted by this, when they have an abusive parent, and how we, as protective parents can help support them. Dr. Torie is a wealth of information and is truly passionate about educating everyone about how these scores, how ACEs, show up in society, and how trauma impacts children. Knowledge truly is power and empowering, and this episode is exactly that: empowering. 

You can find Dr. Torie on IG: dr.victorieus.

Her podcast: BeVicTORIEus Podcast

Her book: It's Time to Talk About ACEs

Her website: www.bevictorieus.com

Visit: https://chantalcontorinescoaching.com to learn how to work with me.

Grab my free parenting resource:

https://chantalcontorinescoaching.myflodesk.com/free-how-to-guide

Join my monthly membership for protective parents: https://chantalcontorinescoaching.com/monthly-membership

Follow me on Instagram: @chantal.contorines.coaching

This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not legal advice.

Transcript

0:01

Welcome everybody to The Survivors Playbook. I'm your host, Chantal Contorines, and this is the podcast for every survivor of abuse. If abusers can have a playbook, then why can't survivors also have a playbook so that you can learn to live your very best life despite what the abuser in your life does or doesn't Do I have to take a side because I'm so excited to have our guest on today. She is somebody that I've connected with. I've never met her. I've probably had four conversations with her in total. But I really feel a connection with her despite the fact that we live in totally different countries, we have different lives. She's a doctor. I am not a doctor. So there's a doctor in the house today and I just love saying that. And this is Doctor Torie. She is many things. She is an ACE educator. She is an author. It's time to talk about ACEs. She's a speaker and she's a very articulate and eloquent speaker. She is the CEO of Be Victorious Foundation and she's also the host of her very own podcast. Be Victorious. Do you see like a theme here? So it's a positive, but she really. I started following her because of her stance and her education and her awareness around ACEs. So thank you Dr. Torie, so much for being on today to enlighten us and to educate us. Thank you so much. They have to your listeners and everyone has to know that you can really find genuine and authentic people on social media. And I think that's where our relationship developed.'cause we've been doing this for a while, so to be a guest on your podcast is so humbling. Thank you so much for having me. I love you so much, and I open our conversation before I even press record. I genuinely, truly love you because you are an honest to God, good person and you'd leave with love and kindness and you're also incredibly educated and passionate about your work, and you just wanna help people and you wanna spread awareness. For those who do not know what ACEs is, no, it's not a card. We're not talking about playing cards here. What are ACEs and what's an ACE score? ACEs is adverse childhood experiences. For those who don't know, there is a medical term for the trauma that you are going through, whether it be child abuse, sexual abuse. Emotional abuse. There is a term, these medical experts found out this term when they did a study, I wanna say they started the study back in 1995 through 1997. They actually was doing it way before then, but they went and took their information to the CDC. And they developed the second largest study in the United States. This study basically broke down what childhood trauma looks like, but it was so huge that. What they did, and I have to give Dr. Alman his credit, they broke those 50 questions down into 10 questions and that's the reason why we have this 10 question ACEs study that everyone uses now. But this study is just to identify what. ACEs are and give you an ACEs score. So this is what we're doing. People are doing that 10 question ACEs study, just like I'm doing one on my. Page. So I actually have the ACEs study. I broke it down and I answered and you did. And what we realized, honestly, you guys, you can go to the cdc.gov, the information is on there, but there's nothing wrong with having a ACEs score And they ran away from it because it was like they were letting the score define them. But here it is 30 years later, and what I noticed when I was doing my information in regards to getting my doctorate degree, that nothing happened with it. It's just been sitting stale on the CDCs website. There were people over the years that have developed, different research. They've paired it with PTSD, they've paired it with. Divorce. They've paired it with veterans they've paired it with autoimmune and they've shown how ACEs has so much of an effect on our physical. More than our mental. And so now more studies have came out. So while I contribute that to Dr. Vincent Felli and Dr. Robert Anda, over the years, it's been people like me that have expanded on that. One of the recommendations I put in my doctorate was that ACEs score actually benefits those four. Extracurricular activity. I was an extra extracurricular activity director in a school, and when I became the director, I just decided to see how it would look as far as attendance. And suspension rates for those students with ACEs. And found out that extracurricular activity actually was a huge strong benefit for people with ACEs. So that's the inception of Dr. Tori, Dr. Victorious, and that's how I came about. But what happened, I created some recommendations also saying stuff like bullying, stuff like community violence. Natural disasters mass shootings all that is trauma. All of it is, and I just did not understand why it wasn't on there. As a doctor, I made recommendations, but then the light bulb popped off. And in 2023, the CDC granted. Things like bullying, systemic racism, mass shootings, natural disasters, ass ACEs, and I said, I gotta take a leap of faith and do this. And it's people like you that as the reason why I stay relevant, because when I mean I am busy, my God, the value of this information is so relevant. That's the reason why, especially things like bullying. Especially things like now systemic racism and community violence that we're seeing. So now people are like Dr. Tory. We want other things to be included. That's the question about the 10 questions, so I'll break it down. Those 10 the study only identified three traumas. That's also a reason why people don't want to talk about ACEs because it only identified physical abuse, emotional abuse, and sexual abuse. But what about the other? Abuse is out there. So I've been saying, oh, they're ACEs. Oh, they're ACEs. Now. People are like, now Dr. Tory, I see you doing some more stuff because bullying is huge. Bullying is an ace. Yeah. The bullying becomes the bullier. Yeah. Systemic racism. Look at what we're going through now. Systemic racism isn't just a black and white issue. Systemic racism is actually what it is. It could be for men, it could be for women, it could be for your. Gender. Listen, you guys, we just need to get together and understand how much of an impact that trauma has on you physically and mentally. And so here I am now saying you have your three categories. You have the abuse category. You have the neglect category, you have the other household dysfunction. That's a community I live in. Listen, that includes the divorce, it includes separation, it includes incarcerated parents. It includes those things that we're not discussing. But then now the CDC has a another category called other adversities, and we wanna put everything in those other ident adversities stuff like religious trauma. Just bring up that one or the new one that people are saying, come on. Dr. Tory advocate for is this immigration trauma. Oh. Coming from Chicago, being someone that, my business is from Chicago, everything that I got and received is from Chicago. It's a huge one because if you all are in the news and see what's going on in Chicago, I don't think it has anything to do with ice coming in and getting the immigrants out. They're taking out everybody, black, white, up, down, Enro, and these people aren't. In a violent way. In a very violent way. So that's community violence, which is another varsity. And then now people are like, how come we're not talking about immigration? Trauma? Atory, that's a good question.'cause it's definitely something we could talk about. So ACEs is just an a it's. Adverse childhood ex experiences. It's a medical term, but people aren't talking about it. They would rather say, oh, that's toxic, or, oh, it's not okay. We have communities that normalize these type of things, and so that's the reason why we're here. And that is the reason why we're here, and it's because of you. This has been around, like you said, for a long time, but it's people like you who are shining a light on something so people understand, right? It's the educational piece. Yeah, I could have been abused, but what's the effect on me? What does that look like? Why am I the way that I am? Why do I experience life the way that I experience life? Why do I see things through a certain lens? Yes. Being trauma informed, and that's what this is. And so that's why Dr. Tory has been taking a toll in putting the social emotional learning aspect everywhere, not just in classroom. You guys, I've, done trainings with banks. I've done trainings with hr. In different organizations. I have done trainings in barbershops, in beauty salons. I love that. Think about it. These are the people that when the people sitting at your chair, you're having this conversation and people need to know about ACEs so they can understand and point people to the right. People to talk to. Really talk to people. If you about divorce, if you've never experienced it, but I know someone that is a coach that is doing a valuable job, let me refer you to this person because you'll be in a community where people are not just going through the divorce, but they're comfortable with sharing their sTories and they're not normalizing it. Because when you look at it from a broad perspective, people wanna say don't divorce, but what about those people that are going through. Spiritual trauma and have been misled and are staying in their divorces to adapt to us part for better, for worth and sickness and in health. There's also. Yeah, divorce is not ideal. Nobody wants to get divorced. Nobody goes into marriage thinking there are some people who, have their starter partner and it's very clear. But for most people marry for life. And so is it better to get divorced and try to be as amicable as possible? Or is it best to stay in a very unhappy, unhealthy relationship that your children, we think that we are buffering our children from this, but energy doesn't lie. And if we're miserable, even if we're never yelling at our partners, a lot of marriages, there's no yelling. There's no name calling, but there's a lot of tension. There's a lot of stress, there's a lot of anxiety, there's a lot of unhappiness, and children pick up on this, and that's trauma. I think for me as a mother of three, after a certain period of time, I'm like, listen, this isn't, I can't be out here preaching about ACEs and talking about ACEs and living a different life. And I say that to say I have a generation under me. That I have to show them the way I have to lead the way and set the example for them. And I don't want them to think that what I am experiencing is okay, because I will share in the African American community, we normalize those things. We normalize divorce, we normalize abuse. We normalize neglect, not just of ourselves. Because we really normalize neglect of ourselves. But the things that are under that ACEs umbrella, we normalize those things in our African American community and I, that was the eye-opener for me because the things that I was listening to as a teacher is not normalized. It should not be normalized. No. And it is trauma and even neglect is trauma. Like neglect is abuse. It's just a different kind of abuse. It is. Yeah, absolutely. So I have to bring awareness to these things because people don't know. Now I'll share. Last week I was at a training. I did a training, and from this training, it was an eye-opener for the entire staff. I had staff members tell me because they were reluctant. Every staff member is reluctant. They don't wanna take professional development. I had. People coming to me saying, oh my God, I think this was more for me than for the students. Exactly. That's why I do trainings, because you can't be in a classroom not knowing that your students have ACEs if you don't identify yours yourself. And that's so powerful. Staff member said, listen, the next day I came and one of the staff members said, I actually took all of this home to my family and started talking. A conversation done properly creates change and it's ripples of change. And it starts with one person. In this instance, it's you. Writing your information to other people, you're disseminating the information and then there, and this is why education is so key. This is why knowledge truly is power and empowering. The more we know. The more we can act, the more we can, affect change, hopefully positive change within ourselves, our lives, our family, our children's lives, our community. But it all starts with us. Yes. So we're not gonna even try to sugarcoat it. If you are a protective parent and you have an ex who is an abuser, they're a narcissist of coercive controller, picket label they're all interchangeable as far as I'm concerned.'cause they all end up doing the same thing. It is so hard for protective parents because they've escaped it. It could be that they were discarded in the worst possible way, or they chose to escape, and either way, they're on the other side of this relationship and they erroneously believe a society does that. Once the relationship ends, the abuse will end. But welcome to post-separation abuse, the continuance of the trauma and the abuse and the manipulation. Oftentimes at the expense of our children. So your children are still experiencing don't people about that. People don't know and realize that, okay, you can sign those papers and think you're done. But honey, not with a narcissist, honey. No, it's never done because you've activated their fear of abandonment, their risk of exposure, they control you and they will continue to try to control you. So for these protective parents who are listening, going, oh my gosh. My poor babies, right? Because a protective parent, by definition wants to protect their children. What wouldn't we do to protect our children? In fact, we do so much so often, we leave with far less than we deserve and are entitled to because we're hoping that it will protect our children and create peace for us and for them. What can they do? ACEs are going to be continuously occurring in the other house, right? We can't stop that. That is the unfortunate. Reality of the worldwide family court system is they really don't understand ACEs. They don't understand post-separation abuse. They don't understand the weaponization of children. They don't understand abuse, period. So what can we do? To help. I am always gonna encourage people to educate themselves. I have coined myself as the ACEs educator. I had no other choice because no one is talking about something that is so needed, and so it starts with us. It's easy. And not to say easy. I always encourage people if they don't want to reach out to me on the same website that has diabetes. That has flu, that has everything else. And let me add a major shade that is down right now because of the government funding issues, but the DD c.gov has very valuable information. If you go to the cdc.gov and put in ACEs, not the card, a CE. S so much information will come up because I've had people question me, like challenge, like I'm a researcher by not just degree, but seriously. You you also have a title. You are a doctor, right? Yeah. So by very definition, you've had to do research to get that title. Yes. It comes with the whole kit and caboodle. Yes. But this title is very intimidating for people because. Educated black woman, systemic racism. That's really why I stepped out on faith and decided to do this on my own because I believe there's such a need that is needed everywhere, not just schools we're talking about. Everywhere. And I'm proving that not to say it, but I'm proving that, oh, that's the reason why it's a podcast. That's the reason why we're here. That's the reason why I'm on social media. And by the way, when I tell you for someone being in the classroom mainstream, us teachers are in a classroom every day. We don't do, we didn't have emails. I'm old school. We were on a black and white chalkboard. Now we have whiteboards. This is what we really do. We need ACEs education. Because that opens up for not just trauma informed training for social emotional learning that can be used personally and professionally. So I would encourage anybody, if you don't wanna listen to me first off, you can follow me for sure. I have tons of. Urge you to do that's what I've been doing. I think since I started my page, I've been following you, right? You have and I think that's how we connected, because when you reach out, I'm going to follow up. It may take me a minute, but you have to understand, I just thought that I was in this bubble all along once upon a time. And to see that, our communities are growing based off of what we're doing and how many people we're impacting let us know that consistency is. Also valuable. So yes, I would encourage anyone, if you don't wanna follow me, if you don't want to go to the cdc.cdc.gov, all of the information is there for sure. We also, as parents, it's important to listen. We don't listen. The generation before us told us what to do. So we did what that generation told us to go do, and we valued ourself based off of what they did. But it's 2025 and things have changed. Things are different. They have more resources that we have. We, they have ai now that we're still trying to work that out and learn how to do it, but we have to use the resources that we already have available. So use your resources. Listen, I promise you the listening is the key. It really is. It really is. We class listen more. Yes. It's you are gonna do this. No, listen, how was your day today? And share. Because what happens is we don't do this, we don't give the students time, or not even students, colleagues, coworkers. We don't give them a time to share this information so they can feel or understand or you can direct them to the right person. You wouldn't, people always say what's the next steps? Therapy. No. There are other resources and tools out there, but I need to hear what's going on. Not that I wanna be the therapist, no, I'm the educator. I want to place you in the right position so you can grow and heal on your own. Listen, that's my first, that's always gonna be my first. It's so important. So for these parents. Their children are, still being abused and abuse, as I always say, it's not always, a raised hand or a raised voice. There's so many other ways to abuse a person that are just as detrimental and just as effective in terms of abuse. What can, so this sounds terrible. You're like, oh my gosh, my poor children, their A score must be so high. Yeah. What can I do as a parent? Can we undo our ACE scores? Can we alleviate them? Can we minimize them? Can we create a positive ripple of change for our children? It's called, we call'em positive experiences. I, first off, all three of my girls are ACEs ambassadors. Not because they have to be, it's because they want to be. I love that. I love that Tori, my daughters because I share with them and let them know that having a ACEs score isn't an issue. Not only have they taken the ACEs quiz, so I encourage people, if you all wanna take the quiz, please go to my website because I break it down where people understand. The other ACEs quizzes is just a quiz. They give you a number. I have other alternatives after It's a really good quiz. I took the quiz. People love it because I broke it down where people understand now my daughters. Because of who they are and the awareness and education that they have. I will say that valuable tool right there is having mentorships and role models. And we'll talk about that here shortly. Kids come to them. If you think about it, when you were a child, my kids are, I have a. 18-year-old, a 16-year-old, and that's gonna be 17 in two weeks. And then I have a 13-year-old. I have teenagers. You guys, the students talk to them because that's how friends talk. When I was younger, I actually. Trauma bonded with some of my friends who were going through divorce or going through some of the things that we were going through because we had that commonality. And so just imagine the 13-year-old and friends coming in to her because their friend's divorce and they're saying, because Cory doesn't hide it. Cory, what did you do? And she's telling them what to do because she's an eighth ambassador. I love that. She does not hide. She's been on the podcast. Her story has been shared in the school. She does podcasting and help her teachers in school because she has that experiences. Your lived experiences are the best experience and then you gotta think about it from that standpoint. It's a positive experience for Corey. A positive experience for extracurricular activity. And it's a positive experience because now those students don't feel alone in their journey, especially when it's coming from a person. Because they're at the age. Children, are reliant on their parents until a certain age, and then when become teenagers, their focus turns to their peers. Yep. And it's far more valid coming from your peer than from an adult, especially your mom or your dad. So having a peer who can relate to you and can articulate their experience and guide, it's mentorship. This is like the premise of. Montessori, right? Yes. Somebody who's gone through what you're going through then teaches you what you know, and then you turn around and do the same thing for the next person and then the next person. And this is the positive ripples of change that we're creating in our communities. After it became be Victorious Educational Services because I was always doing consulting as a teacher, as an administrator. I am a still certified licensed special education administrator. So you mean 5 0 4 IEPs, all of that. That's how I started and now. The professorship comes in and I'm a professor at different schools. And then it's if you can get your doctorate degree, so can I. And now the coaching comes in. So it's be victorious educational services because also that podcast has been used as an educational tool to help people, what people do. And I will share. Like your episode is so valuable because you not only shared your story, you're a coach and people know interesting. If she went through divorce and these are the steps that I took and she's successful, then I can actually do this too. So you have to see you guys that be victorious educational services. Like how she said the jack of all trades, because once you understand your ass score, it's going to transform your life. Period. That's not me. That's just me putting the awareness out there. And so me putting the awareness out here is how I've built my business because Be Victoria's Foundation really was my mentorship program that I could not let go of. You're a mentor naturally. Period, especially as an educator. However, I couldn't the, oh, Dr. Tory still write my, I need a recommendation, I need this. And now that I go into schools, it's like I can't implement Be Victoria's Foundation as the mentorship program, but you should see how many people need it. Mentorship adds value to what. Ever organization, whatever person, whatever individual, because again, those lived experiences are the best experiences. And as we know, so many people are walking around with a lot of trauma and people erroneously believe that trauma is things that happened to you, but it can always and also be the things that didn't happen for you. Yes, you might have experienced abuse, but how did the positive. Protective parent respond to you, right? How were your needs met or not met? The conversations that should have happened but didn't happen. All these can also be traumatic experience, and it's how people, view their experiences. For instance, a person can be in a car accident and walk away totally fine without any kind of stress or trauma. Another person can have the very similar accident and walk away with PTSD and have lifelong trauma as a result of the accident. And so this is why talking about this is so important and I just love the fact that. Not only are you doing this work, but your three girls are doing this work because they have you. They have you as a strong, independent woman showing them exactly how to live life and teaching them the valuable, like true values and true morals and true ethics, which is not just doing things for yourself, but also helping those around you. And it's also breaking the generational curse. And I talk about that in my book. I didn't wait till chapter seven to talk about it. I figured I would talk about ACEs. And then the second chapter is addressing your generational trauma. And the gener generational curse. Absolutely. Because we blame ourselves for some of those things. Especially my parents who I love to death. They got married when they were 16 and 17 years old. In 2025, who is getting married at 16 and 17? You're still a baby. Okay, but that generation, you gotta think about it. In the seventies, that's what they did. 16 and 17. In the 16, and people don't even understand this. My dad was in the military when he was 16. That's no more. But you have to think about it. Who goes to the military at 16 now? So that's why I let people know. It's so important for us to understand how important generation by generation still has to learn things. Our issue and my issue with doing this work is that generation in the nineties when that study was originally out is still seeking answers. They are, yeah. My son is 17, turning 18. My daughter's 14, turning 15. They come much. You change from your teen years to your early twenties, from your early twenties to your late twenties, from your late twenties to your thirties. I'm. On the other end of my forties entering, I've passed I've passed like the midpoint. I'm closer to 50 than I am to, 40 and I've grown so much and changed so much since I was in my thirties. And these are just babies. Yep. Experiencing life and adulthood and responsibilities when they're just babies. Yep. And they need us. Yeah. So if we're, think about it, we're supportive parents, but what about those supportive parents that aren't? Doing those things. They need ACEs 1 0 1. They need ACEs education. They need to also understand that the things that they're doing has an impact and they will also need to end the generational curse as well. That's the reason why it's so important for me. I love that people now are buying it's time to talk about ACEs. I remember what's interesting is people are definitely talking about ACEs now. I'm not gonna say it's. Thanks to me, but I'm gonna say I had a great contribution to it because people are really buying the book now by the bulk, and it is so humbling to see. The problem is, it's a, it's mass confusion because with all of the. Issues as far as, freight and everything else, and the decline of workers. My books are still sitting out there. But nonetheless, the fact that people want to bring awareness, there are schools that are asking for it. Organizations, you have all these people asking. That means it's a huge need to talk about it for sure. Absolutely, and the more we talk about it, the more we can heal. Yes, and we can grow and we can thrive. We don't have to be stuck in survival. We don't have to be stuck with this trauma. Yes, it happened to you as a child. It's part of your history, but it doesn't need to continue to impact you the way it has. Once you understand what it is and you start doing the work and you start connecting to people who can guide you and mentor you, and coach you and help you. You can actually learn to live a great life. And that's the whole purpose of this conversation is to, educate people as to the importance of our ACE scores. And just because we have them doesn't mean they define us. I have it. Like you said, you admitted, I tell people I advocate for ACEs and I have a ACEs score And you do too, and people have to understand now it's one and three, but with all the new updates and all the new awareness that's out here, I've heard people say I was a five, but when I actually dived into the question. I think I'm a six now, and it's like I tell people it depends on the day and who I'm talking to. My ASA score can go from a six to a seven in a second. And I will say that like the immigration trauma that bothers me so much now, or the religious trauma that people are not talking about, or financial TR trauma that people don't wanna discuss. Your number's going to fluctuate. So again. We cannot let the score define us because the ACEs test is actually supposed to be. And intake. It's just supposed to say, Hey, here's the test. Don't let it define you. Keep going. It's a tool. It's an awareness tool, and that's the reason why I'm gonna keep pushing for awareness. I have no other choice because I've seen it and I've seen people not just change their lives, but take active action into healing because of this tool. Absolutely. When we heal ourselves, we heal generations after us. That's the thing, right? When we do the hard work, it's hard. That's why most of society avoids doing the hard work.'cause it's hard and you become vulnerable and you have to peel back layers and you have to, look at like the reality of your life, which most people are too busy trying to suppress by any means necessary, be it alcohol or lifting weights. Daily or working too much, or being a social butterfly and just, busy, right. That's why I tell people the categories are abuse. Neglect household dysfunction in other adversities, and I only introduce it now because people need to know that they can fill in the blank as far as abuse. Alcohol abuse is abuse. Sexual abuse is abuse. Child abuse is abuse. Just because it's not identified under that category doesn't mean that's not what it is, because it really is. Yeah. Do you have one last little. Tidbit or nugget for people. This entire episode has been filled with them because that's just who you are. Every time you open your mouth, something amazing comes out. I think we just have to stop normalizing what we think is normal in 2025. I will share quietly that there was a young lady after she had her ACEs training that shared that she watched a. Student of hers get abused by her parents in her face, and yet she said nothing. There are resources, you guys out here. So say for example, the young man who's in the news right now and everybody's talking about the suicide of this young man in regards to him being an athlete. What about the ones that are not, that are committing suicide? People are committing suicide every 12 seconds. It's that bad because they're giving out. Let's utilize the tools. 9 8 8 is a wonderful tool. If you have questions or concerns, you can use that tool. Don't use 9 1 1 for everything. Use the resources that are available out here. There is a child abuse hotline. There is people that are walking around with shirts that says Mental health matters and a one 800 number. Let's start utilizing the resources that are out there instead of normalizing the. Things that we normalize. Abuse is not okay. Neglect is not okay. Household dysfunction is not okay. Other adversities, like systemic racism, bullying specifically, there are not. Okay. Yeah. We need to reach and have this discussion and talk about it. I love that. Thank you so much Dr. Torie for being on here today for educating more people as to not only what you do, but how this impacts everybody and how it's a tool. And it might be feel like a scary tool, but it's actually not. And especially if you take Dr. Tory's quiz and I'm gonna have all the show notes. You can have all the links to be able to access her and what she does in the show notes, but it's a tool to be able to just. Honestly look at your life and say, okay, this is why I am the way that I am now. What can I do to help them connect? What kind of community can I connect them with so that they, are experiencing this? Because if you have an abuser as your ex, your children are actively being abused. That's just their harsh reality. But there's so much that you can do as a protective parent to help your children navigate this. Yes. We have communities. You guys join us. Yeah.'cause this community that we are in is so powerful and we are doing what we need to do. I'm honored again, just to be here and to know that there's a resource available that can help. For you guys that don't know when I tell you, she's good. She is amazing, and she will be there because those lived experiences that we experience, we don't want people to go through. We don't want people to go through that, and that's the reason why we're here. That's the reason why we're coaches. That's the reason why we're out here sharing, pouring, having podcasts so we can get this information out here in order to take the necessary steps to heal. For sure. Exactly. And on that note, there's nothing more to say. That was like the mic drop right there. That was the perfect ending. So thank you so much for being on. Thank you for listening to The Survivor's Playbook. If today's episode helped you feel less alone, more confident, more empowered, and more educated, please share it with somebody else who might also need it. And if you're ready for deeper support, you can join my monthly membership or grab free tool at chantalcontorinescoaching.com The links are all in my show notes. Remember, your clarity is your power. Your calm is your resistance. You are not crazy. You are not alone and you are not powerless. Until next time, keep going. I see you.