Ep. 34: Sami's story- from 10 months married to 3 years in court

In this episode, I talk to the amazing Sami Bachota, of Informed Healing. She tells us how she got into the work of helping survivors and we delve into her story. Married for only 10 months, but in and out of court for over 3 years. 

But, despite what her ex continues to do, drag her back to court and use the system to control her, she has built a life she loves.

This is a must listen to episode for every survivor of abuse. 

You can find her on IG @informed_healing or via email at: theinformedhealingmethod@gmail.com

Visit: https://chantalcontorinescoaching.com to learn how to work with me. 

And find it all here at: https://linktr.ee/chantalcontorinescoaching

Follow me on Instagram: @chantal.contorines.coaching

This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not legal advice. 

Transcript

Audio Only - All Participants 0:01

Welcome everybody to the Survivor's Playbook. I'm your host, Chantal Contorines, and this is the podcast for every survivor of abuse. If abusers can have a playbook, then why can't survivors also have a playbook so that you can learn to live lives you love despite what the abuser in your life does or doesn't do. And today I'm so excited to have on this amazing guest. Her name is Sammy Bachota, and she is... she's Informed Healing on Instagram. All links relating to her will be in my show notes, so don't worry. And I'm so excited to have her on today because she's amazing, she has a story, and she's also created a life that I think that she loves. Am I right, Sammy? I do. I do. Minus the one little part, but yes, I do. So Sammy, can you tell, for those who don't know you, who haven't had the luxury of following you just yet, a little bit about yourself and what you do. Oh my goodness. And how you ended up in this space. Ooh, yes. How long do you have? So what really led me to doing what I do was the fact that I was aware of narcissism, and that it existed, and even knowing someone that admitted that, "Oh, those traits, they sound like me." Not me- Oh but him. Yeah. And yet I took two years, I saw many therapists, even a marriage counselor. And then I was in the most dangerous relationship I've ever been in. And, once I finally escaped that one, I was just randomly posting on Instagram, and it was so many people were commenting and saying things. And I was like, "You know what? I wanna somehow help people without causing any further harm like I had been caused." Because there's wonderful therapists out there. But there are so many people who do not understand this type of personality- how they present, because so many are con artists, right? They're all con artists, but some are very adept. Many are very adept at presenting as loving and caring- charismatic, thoughtful, vulnerable even. And so unless a professional is trained in coercive control, unless they understand family dynamics, they really don't understand this type of personality and how it presents in both the survivor/victim as well as the actual abuser themselves. Yeah. And then if you show up to a therapist saying, "You know what? I'm causing... I feel like I'm the problem in my relationship," and they're not even with you, of course the therapist is going off what you say. Yeah. And it's just more blaming, "Oh, I'm doing this wrong. I'm not... I'm doing this wrong. It caused a lot more harm. So it led me to, go to school. It was, So that I could at least post things without... or comment, and then I was like, "You know what? I wanna help people one-on-one," because people started sharing their stories, and I was like, "I really wanna do this with them." I went to that kind of schooling. And long story short, but here I am. And- And he's... Yeah So who in your life, if you feel comfortable, who have you encountered, s- because once you know about this personality, you see it everywhere. It's like that movie where they say- "I see ghosts everywhere." It's the same thing here. I see them all the time now. I'm like, "Oh, red flag. I'm gonna keep an eye on you. Red flag. I'm gonna keep my distance from you and have some solid boundaries because I suspect..." I've even had a client recently who I was like, "I actually think that you might be the abuser in this dynamic, and you've come to me to reverse engineer how to deconstruct your ex." Yeah so yeah. They do that. Yes. Ugh, and that one's something you gotta be careful with. But, the question again, what was the question? The first one- Who do you know? Yes. Yeah, like- Who do I know? I'm sure multiple people. Yeah, about, say, how many do I know? And that's the thing I don't go around saying, "You're a narcissist. The label is just for us. Yes. The label is just for us to make sense and to be able to actually say, "You know what? There's actually a label to define certain personalities." But it's really not about the label, it's about the harm that they impart upon people, right? And I think I read a stat years and years ago, and so it's gonna be totally not the right stat because my brain doesn't work that way, or it does work that way. It's that every narcissist, like every abuser, impacts some crazy amount of people in their lifetimes. Like hundreds of thousands of people are negatively impacted by this one person. I feel like I've read what you're saying. I feel like- i've read that, 'cause I was like- Yeah "That makes sense. This person..." And this person that I've personally experienced has ex-wives that I have messages from them. One left the country to keep herself- unsafe, right? And this is just the partners. We're not even talking like the parents, and the children, and the colleagues, and the employees, and the community members, and the friends and acquaintances, and the barista at Starbucks, right? Like this one person, the ripple effect of negativity extends far beyond what we can comprehend, which is why I think education and knowledge is so important for people, to not only understand, but also to be able to... Because you knew what this was. You opened this by saying, "I knew what this was." And there's almost a sense of shame I knew." I just- Yeah started with a new client and, they're a psychologist, and their shame, th- they're like, I should know better." And I'm like, "But this person is a con artist." Nobody is immune. Doesn't matter if you've dated one, married one, had a parent or a partner who was one, nobody is immune from this type of personality. No, they're not. And they also, even though they all seem to have a very similar playbook, they can present very differently. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, there's the- They're the complete opposite of what- Yeah you were used to. And that's where a lot of people, like they're the complete opposite of what you had of that person at the end- Yeah because we were so starved that finally, oh, this person, they're showing up. They're giving us so much attention and love, and they're so attentive. And- They're checking all those boxes, and it just feels really good. It's all the pos- Yeah, and it... You might have been with a, overt narcissist, and then you partner with a covert. The underlying manipulations are still the same, but how they present and how they walk through life are totally different. One's obvious, and one's very subtle, right? But they make your body, especially if you've been raised by this type of personality, right? Your body just goes with what it knows, unless you do the work to be able to stop that from continuing. Because your body's used to it. You were raised in a household like this, you're going to follow this type of person 'cause it feels normal. Absolutely. Which is- And it is, it's that familiar hell, and it oddly feels comfortable. And I thought, I made a post a long time ago. They're like, "Oh, they feel like home." Let's, how was your home really? Yeah. How was your home growing up? 'Cause it is that they feel like home," and it feels- Yeah comforting, but then you're like, "Wait a minute." And- "Home wasn't all that great." If home is chaotic, and home is- confusing, and home is manipulative, then y- but your body goes with what it knows. Even if cerebrally you're like, "This person isn't treating me right," but your body feels comfortable, it can be because this is what you were raised in. This is what your body feels as familiar, which is why it's so important, As a protective parent, our job is to ensure that we do not allow our children to believe that love and abuse can coexist. Exactly. Because if they believe that what they're experiencing is love, when they meet somebody who treats them this way, they're like this person loves me," and with love comes verbal lashings and criticisms and put-downs and judgments and micromanaging and gaslighting and manipulation. So our job is super important. Our job is to ensure that our kids understand that's not love. No, it's not. And they can protect themselves in ways that you're not, you don't... It's not talking about, badly about anybody. No. But- You never, ever even have to mention their other parent, unless your children come to you- and they have questions. I don't believe in gaslighting children. I believe in being truthful. But they have to come to you with the questions, and then you answer in age-appropriate ways. And you never have to say, "Hey, your mom or dad's a piece of shit." Yeah but there's so many ways to equip our children with the tools to be able to think critically, and to also be able to go with their instincts. Because how many of us when we're in these relationships stop listening to our guts? Me. And I can even look back and say, something felt off, and I just said it's really just me. I'm, maybe I'm overthinking it. Maybe I'm too sensitive," as I've been told my entire life. Right? And then that's just crazy. What's wrong with being sensitive? There's- There is nothing I'd rather be too sensitive it's actually a superpower. Being s- sensitive is a superpower. It means that you get hurt a lot, and if you don't create good boundaries around yourself, it means that you absorb other people's energy, and sadness, and pain. But it's a superpower. I would much rather be sensitive than, apathetic to people's pain. Exactly. 'Cause then- yeah. Sorry so you've had to rebuild. At some point in your life- Yes you've had to rebuild, and what did that look like? Hell. No, if we're just- Because- being honest- I want people to- yeah Who are in this right now to say, "Okay," because it's really hard. First of all, escaping is the hardest thing. Even if they discard you, going away, leaving, ending the relationship can feel all sorts of painful and sad. It can be bittersweet. You can even have anger, especially if they've cheated on you and discarded you. But leaving is the hardest thing for so many victims. And then staying gone is even that much harder because there's something called post-separation abuse, which is not super fun. Just ask- any survivor, and this is their go-to, even if you don't share children. You don't have to have kids for there to be post-separation abuse. Having children does make it easier for them, but there's so many ways. Yeah. And that's the thing. I made my plan, I recognized it, and yet there was still that part of me, and I know a lot of people can probably relate to this, that you you want them to fight for you to prove that, you know what, it wasn't all fake and they actually do care. But a lot of people don't think that it's that bad because they're not fighting to keep you. Okay they're not obsessing over me, so maybe I really was the problem, and they're excited to see me leave. But it's not even like this, because they have someone else lined up and- They cannot be by themselves. No. These people, if they don't... if you happen to escape without them knowing which kudos to you, 'cause that's really hard to do, but if you happen to escape and they are by themselves, I can guarantee there are people in their DMs right now that they just, "Oh Sammy's gone, so I'm just gonna actually meet this person," if they haven't already done, because they overlap, right? Yeah. They cannot- And he knew I was leaving. He definitely knew, and one of his affair partners did reach out to me, and I'm glad she did because I was still... I had moved downstairs, and I was still in that... My children had already left to go to their dad's which I'm grateful for. It's the longest I've ever been without them, though. But- There was still this part of me that was like maybe we can make this work." But that's why I encourage everyone to check your DMs on socials, the hidden ones. Check those. Because I waited and then I saw and she's "Just letting you know, he's been unfaithful to you for da-da-da-da." And I was just like, it was that nail in the coffin for me. And then to see that, he'd been playing this broke victim, and he didn't have any money, and I bought him this $200 purse. I call it a purse. It is a purse. It's a nice purse, too. But she sent me... I love her for this even though I don't ever encourage people to do this. Yep. But you know what? If it's feeling right for you, she sent me screenshots of their conversations, of him buying trips for them, buying water park passes. And all this time I'm just like, "Oh, he's so broke. I feel so bad for him," knowing that I'm the one that took the financial hit leaving. I'm the one that uprooted my life. And you're still, right? Yes. You're still dealing with the financial repercussions. Yes. And how long was this relationship? 10 months. 10 months. I filed at seven months. I filed for divorce. He filed for divorce at, four months I believe it was. Oh my gosh. Which, I'm, not accusing anyone, but he was talking to someone. I'm pretty sure it failed. Yeah that that's... He wouldn't leave unless he had somebody else lined up, especially if there's people in DMs- Yeah DM-ing you saying this is what was happening. That wasn't the first person. No. That was just the one who had- No the courtesy to at least say, "Just so you know." And the one that s- at least stuck for a few weeks. But and that was what I eventually learned later on, was that was almost like that false discard. Because that... He immediately... He does all his filings himself. He fires lawyers, of course. But he was taking someone else to court, so while he went to court that day, it was the first day I really stood up to him and said something mean back after being blocked in a room and told what a joke I was, everything under the sun. I finally said something really nasty back. But you were vulnerable, and he knew that, which is exactly- why he did that because then he turned the tables. He blindsided you, and then you're like, "Oh, but I can't." Yep. Yeah. I couldn't believe he did that, and he expected me... I moved 1,000 miles to be with him, and he just expected me to just get out- He wanted me gone. He even- Yeah contacted my ex-husband. And like he was trying to conspire with him against me, and it was, ugh, it was a really interesting time, we'll say. But I wanted at least my kids to finish the school year. My youngest had just gotten accepted into the pre-K program, and- Oh, my gosh he wasn't even really verbal at the time, so it was a special needs- kinda thing, 'cause he wasn't diagnosed yet. I was like, "I can't just snatch them out of this." My house had just, literally just sold in Georgia, and I was... Like, he just wants me to just get out because I finally stood up to him. Yeah. And you also held him accountable and, they can't stand that. They can't stand anything that smacks of accountability. No. And he wanted... that's the thing. He was standing there. He was looking for that reaction. Of course. Because he just went on and on. I was like, "Will you just let me be?" I was just trying to get ready for the day, and he was blocking the doorway. I still remember. I was like, "Just let me be." And he just kept on and on. And finally, I said it, and sure enough, he went right there and filed. That was the reaction. Then he took it back. Yeah. He was wanting that reaction. And then you were probably very thankful that he took it back. See, this is the manipulation, right? So it- Yeah then you're like, "He took me back. Oh, thank God. Now I have to." And then you're on your best behavior. You're dealing with anything that they dish out because you're so thankful that they've taken you back, even though- Yeah that was orchestrated. That was manipulation pure and simple- from the beginning. Push you. Push all the buttons that he's implanted, watch you react, threaten you with something, with this like the withdrawal of your life, your stability, you know- affection, attention, and then you're begging. And then, "Oh, okay. I'll take you back. Look w- what a good person I am. I'm taking you back despite the fact that you're clearly the problem in this relationship." And then you're so thankful. And you just read the paragraphs I was sending to him. It's I'm not gonna say it's pathetic, but I'm like, "Ugh." But you- "What happened to that person for me to be- this is- that way?" I can also attest to that, right? The how we exit versus how we enter is totally different. I was fiery, and by the end I was a doormat. I was so thankful for scraps, just scraps of attention. Just anything. Even just a little pat on the head saying, "You're a good girl, Chantal." I was like, "Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. More. Please." Ooh. "What can I do to get more of this?" Because I'm starved. You're starved for affection. Yeah. You're starved for acknowledgement. You're starved for validation and support and respect. And this is why they do this, right? And it's periodic. They're not always unkind, and they're not always nice, and it's not predictable, right? It's the inconsistency that creates the trap- You just never know. One day something can just, would just set him off. And the thing is he would buy things for my kids, but granted I bought things for his kids, but he would use it constantly. Oh, yeah. "I bought your kids this. I bought them that." Yeah, and then you're gonna go bully them and act He'll go get his kids ice cream and then come back and say we didn't get you any," just to try to make my oldest cry. Oh. And I was just like, "No." No. But he did. Yep. He was just trying to get a reaction out of them, and it was just an awful... Yeah, we all had fun together sometimes, and that's what makes it hard. But that's the thing it's not always terrible. If it was- always terrible, if every minute of every day was terrible, nobody would stay. Exactly. You would leave after a week or a month. You're like this is crap." But they do just enough good stuff, right? To keep you a- yeah attached. To keep you hopeful. That's the person that I fell in love with. Yeah. "And what did I do to get that kind of, response today? Okay, I'm gonna try that again." And then, but then the goalpost shifts so that's never the same, right? So what- Yeah pleased them yesterday doesn't please them today. If yesterday they liked their steak medium rare, today they don't even steak, they're vegans. "And how dare you even make them a steak? Because don't you know anything about me? I'm a vegan." Oh, that, that really hits the nail on the head right there. And in my situation, I knew once I got there and paid $7,000 to move to be with him. Oh, my gosh. Something happened, and I remember sitting in the closet and just crying, and him sitting on a stool and just this sick smile on his face. And I was just like, "I know what you are." And I knew. Like, all my stuff was still in boxes, though, and I was like, "I can go home." And he's you could, but then I'm gonna make you look really crazy, and then your ex is gonna get custody of your kids." Oh. Because my ex attempted when I moved, my, boys' dad did file. So I had to pay a $5,000 retainer to get- Oh sole custody of my children. And that was denied almost immediately for other reasons. But he ended up seeing them more once we moved, which everything worked out. But that real fear of losing- Yeah custody of my kids. And he needed time. That's the thing he needed time to come up with a plan. And in January, I truly believe he pulled it back because I was trying to get it annulled, and how would that have looked if... Why would someone move that far and just to get a marriage annulled? Or annul. Yeah I always say it. Whenever there's captions, it always changes it, but annul. There we go. I got it an- I wanted to get it annulled, and he was like, "Judge such and such." He's saying the judges' names, and I'm just like, "How does he know all this information?" Ugh, yeah. So- I probably... Yeah. Ugh seven months. So he filed at four months, you filed at seven months, but you stayed. Yeah. When there, there is no shame. This is the thing. For anybody listening, we are to divest ourselves of any shame that we feel because- these people are con artists. They truly are. They have the art of the con down pat. By the time they've met you, they've been practicing, they've been honing their craft all their lives. This is how they keep people attached to them, is by doing this, right? They, this is... And it all stems from a very fragile ego. They do not believe that they're worthy of love or that they're lovable, and the only way to keep people attached to them is to manipulate them into staying. And so by the time they get to you, they have honed this. They, there is literally nobody who is exempt from this type of behavior. If they cross your path- it doesn't matter if you're a psychologist, doesn't matter if you're a billionaire. It doesn't matter if you've been married to two of them. It doesn't matter if you're a judge, a family lawyer. It does not matter. They are so good at reading you and giving back exactly what you're hoping for. And then the slow process of erosion of yourself and your, the gaslighting of yourself and the attachment to them, the trauma bond. The trauma bond is very real. This is not like a make believe, woo thing. Your body becomes addicted to the highs and the lows, and it feels safer to be with them than to leave them. But you finally left. You finally escaped. I filed, and it was March, so it was... my, it was right in the middle of the last quarter of school, so I was like, "All right. I'll file and, I'll just move to the basement, and we can be cordial, right? We can be cordial. We'll just keep it, you know- This is you. This is coming from you- Yeah, I know though, right? This is you being optimistic and hopeful, and even though this person has uprooted your life and lied to you and conned you, and you understand probably at some level that this is your reality- you're still willing to be amenable because that's who we are. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Let me guess. He wasn't willing to be amenable and kind and thoughtful. Oh, no. He called me a squatter. He said I was living there rent-free. I had been paying for all the groceries, paying some of the bills, paying for the furniture that he bought- But none of my name was on any of that, of course. But he's the victim. I left with everything even though Yeah I have pictures. You robbed him blind. You used- I know him. I even took the spoons. Oh my goodness. The things that I've heard he has said about me is ridiculous. And it doesn't bother me, 'cause I'm like, I mean- Whatever I have the receipts to back everything up- Yeah But something pretty traumatic happened, that March. And, in January my cat had started acting a little different. We'll just say my cat, basically just went to the basement and didn't wanna return back upstairs. And any time he would go down there- Something not natural happened to him. Yes. And any time he would go downstairs, my cat... My cat was feisty. He was a feisty M- Maine Coon mix. Yeah he was not even scared of dogs. But he would just lay there and then pee on himself. And so I was like maybe I'll just take him to the vet. Maybe he has a urinary tract infection or something." And the vet, bless his heart, my cat was trying to tell me, the vet was trying to tell me, but they were like, "Something bad happened. Someone hurt your cat." And I'm like, "He would never hurt my cat. Maybe he just, heard us arguing or something. Maybe something like that." And the vet was like yeah, emotional. They pick up on a lot of emotional energies." And my cat, I truly believe now that my cat was trying to save us and tell us something, and so was the vet. And then that March, my cat, he was an indoor cat, but he got out, and I spent so much time looking for him. And I'm talking it really bothered the person that I was with that how much time I spent looking for him, 'cause I had responsibilities I was neglecting, of course. Like- Yep taking care of him. Taking care of- Catering to his every need his kids. Yep. Yep. Doing his daughter's hair, all that fun stuff. And I loved his kids, but I'm like, he knew how important this cat was to me. He wasn't just a cat. It had been since- This was not just a run-of-the-mill thing. This was an emergency- in your life. And so- Yeah other things have to fall to the wayside while you're dealing with an emerg- just like any emergency. Yeah. But no, not for him. Not at all. But my cat ended up passing. He wasn't hit by a car or anything. We still don't really know what exactly happened to him. And I didn't tell my children, 'cause they were about to leave to go on spring break with their dad. And it wa- it was a Thursday night. I held him and cried as he died in my arms. And my ex- Ugh just sat there and watched me and just... The, just the coldness, like h- He just did not care at all. He was just more annoyed that, he had to do this so here's the thing, is even if you're not a cat person, say you just don't comprehend how somebody could like an animal. You're just like- "I- it's just an animal to me." The fact that somebody, a human, that you're somehow attached to, even if you're out of love with this person, you're not... This person is in pain. Yeah. A, a normal human, an empathetic, compassionate human would see somebody and want to console them. Exactly. But no. But let's get... This is why I filed. My, send my kids off, and I finally let myself really grieve. And it was a Saturday, and he wanted to go to lunch. He wanted to do things. And I got up, I finally got out of bed, and he went to hug me, finally give me that hug, right? And he almost stepped on my foot, so I moved my foot, and it just set him off. "You don't even accept my hugs. I don't have time for this," yada, yada, yada. And I was like, first off, he had shoes on. He's 6'2", I'm 5'2". You literally could have just almost crushed my foot. All I did was move my foot, and it just set him off. But let's just rewind, though. Yeah. The fact that he starved you of compassion when you needed compassion. Yep. You were grieving, right? You were grieving, and the person that's supposed to love you is just watching you like you're really inconveniencing their life right now. They've got the Super Bowl to watch, and they don't have time for your tears and your emotions. Exactly. So even if he almost didn't step on your foot, even if he was five feet tall and you're 5'2"- even if he was barefoot, if you recoil, that's a natural human instinct. Because you've not been there for me, so why would I wanna be hugged by you? It's too late. Yeah. Yeah. And then you add in the fact that he's a foot taller than you and wearing shoes, of course you're gonna move your foot. Yeah, and that's all I did, and it just, ugh. But to him, he said that, because he took my cat to the vet to be- Oh cremated. Oh he helped me so much. He didn't have to do that for me. That's really the least you coulda done after everything, but- Really, you could have done that if he had held you and stroked your back and held, just- Com- wa- showed human emotion And even if he didn't comprehend, 'cause not, like... Say my friend had a pet worm, and that pet worm died, but that person was sad, I'd be sad for my friend, right? Yes. I don't have to like worms. I don't have to feel attached to a worm for me to... this is your animal. You were grieving the loss of your animal. Exactly. I'm really sorry that he did that. I'm sorry that you didn't get- Thank you the compassion and the empathy, and just the support that you... And this is the commonality, right? When there's- Yeah something that takes attention away from them, it's always about them. So anything that detracts from attention on them is an inconvenience and an a a real affront to who they are. Especially when you're at your lowest, that is when they are the worst. But some people will say, "Oh, they really came through for me," and I'm like, "I want you to get curious about that." Yeah, let's actually- Did they really- peel back those layers come through for you? Because oftentimes they c- they, create this h- horrible emergency, and then they do the easiest thing, which makes them appear to be the white knight- coming to your actual rescue. But they actually created the issue, and then they're solving it for you or supporting you through it. But that's just the superficial stuff. They weren't actually doing anything for you. No, they weren't. And they claim. They can claim all day long- but no. But then I ended up leaving. I ended up leaving, and I did... That's the thing, I didn't completely go no contact at first, which I know so many people don't, because I didn't really feel that safe at first to go no contact. I felt, he might still have stuff of mine. What is he gonna do with it? But this is the- That he- important part, though, right? It's going no contact is wonderful when you're safe. And we cannot discount how much of your own... You know your situation better than any professional out there. Yeah. So trust your gut. Your gut was telling you, "This is not safe to go no contact just yet. I still have to play a little bit of a game," right? You were being strategic. You weren't being a pushover. You weren't being hopeful. You were actually being strategic and doing what you needed to do to extricate yourself safely, fully from this relationship. Yes. And even though you did that, let's fast-forward to now. Is it still super easy? Like... Things have been great. I did have to start over financially because, I had been a stay-at-home mom, and then I could make ends meet selling things from home before I met him. But I had to get back into working and supporting my kids on my own. And we didn't even have... We were eating dinner off the Lego table. I didn't have couches. I didn't have a table. Yeah, I had the spoons that I came with. I did take the spoons that I came with. But I had to go buy everything. I even remember I put in an oven baked pizza, whatever it is, and then I realized I don't even have anything to eat it with, so I just was trying to eat the pizza whole. Things like that. I'm like, I didn't rob him of all these things that apparently I've- I'm hearing that I did or heard that I did back then. S- t- the things that it was... It's comical when, when- Now that you've- had some time to actually- Oh, yeah look back. But when you're in it, it's not comical. It's so stressful. But now that you've done work and there's distance between you and him and there's time- Yeah you're actually able to find the ridiculousness of this, right? Just how stupid. It is. Really? I stole your spoons. I took my spoons. I robbed you blind. That's why I was eating pizza whole off of my child's Lego table- Yeah because I left- I didn't have a table at that point There was not even a table at that point. It was... And my air mattress was constantly deflating during the night. It was... But you know what? I slept really good, as crazy as that sounds. Well- I would wake up and inflate it, but then I would fall right back asleep. But that's the thing. There's, I'm sure everybody who's here has seen that that picture. Starting over might look like this, and that's like- an empty, very bare, sparse room. There's a TV on a box, and there's one single mattress, no bedding. And that's oftentimes, if we're lucky. Not everybody even has that, right? They have to go to shelters- or they have to be, at a parent's house or a friend's house. But starting over might actually mean that you're at a deficit, that you're in debt, that you have no way to financially take care of yourself and/or your children. And that's a reality for a lot of people. And it was also somewhat your reality. You didn't have a lot to your name at that point. You didn't have- the basics. Those luxury items that shouldn't actually be luxury items, like a dining room table and some chairs- to go around that table, But you, that didn't deter you. So let's talk about that, because a lot of people- it's scary. It's scary, when you are forced to be on your own, taking care of yourself and your children. You were relocated, so you weren't close to support. So how did you do that? I don't... Looking back, I'm like, I literally- When you're in it- picked a place you just... Yep. I... But, I found a place, a city, and it said, one of the safest cities in America. And I went a little bit west of that. Is it west? Yes, to more of a senior retirement community area. I was like, "There. Quiet, lots of trees, whole new state. I'm going there." And I've never really had a support system anyway, so it wasn't anything- that I could really... i'm like, "I don't really have anybody anyway. I don't really have much family or anything." And I just did it. I drove 23 hours on my 38th birthday, and, with three cats. My kids were already with their dad, so that was a little bit of, glad I didn't have to do that to them. But I just showed up to this house that I rented. I'd only seen pictures of it. And of course, it was a little disappointing, but you know what? I didn't care. I really didn't care. I didn't even have... I tried to set everything up before, but I didn't even have running water for a few days. So I was going to the Walmart and stuff. It was a nightmare. But- at least it was one that you had control over though. So you might have been without stuff, but at least you could just come in and know that it was just, it was gonna be quiet because you wanted the quiet. It was going to be noisy if you chose to have the noise. It was- but it was your space. Exactly. And there's something that, that weight that you don't even know that you're carrying because you're just so in it. You are in the, you are in the depths of it. You are in survival mode. Even the good times, you're still in survival mode 'cause good times end, and you never know when they're gonna end, right? There's no reason, conceivable reason why this good time is gonna end, but something happens. You move away from them when they're coming in for a hug because you don't wanna be stepped on, and all of a sudden, World War III erupts. There, there's never a predictable nature or rhyme or reason for why they explode. It's not rational. It's not reasonable. So being able to have your own space, even if it's smaller, even if it's dingier, even if it's without, doesn't matter. It was mine, and I could do whatever. And I could listen to music. I could drink my frozen Gatorades. At the time, I used to love frozen Gatorades. And it wasn't annoying anyone. I always felt so annoying. I was just... My presence was annoying to him. Yeah, like you were an inconvenience. Yes, always. Or I needed to constantly be cleaning and doing stuff, and now that part took a while. Proving your worth. Yeah, that one did take a while. But it was just... I started just doing things for me. I didn't have my kids yet, so which gave me that freedom to just, you know what, I'm gonna go, explore this place. I'm gonna go hiking. I'm gonna go do this. And I'm very grateful that I had that couple weeks to just almost purge him out of my system is what I feel like- Yeah was just to get him out. Detox. You were detoxing. But he still wasn't really officially out of my system, I know that. But it was just, ugh. Wow, that seems so long ago. But it was only about three years ago, and it feels like it was a life... looking at where I am now versus then, and waking up to emails from him, and emails from someone he was seeing, and just thinking about all that, wow. It was a lifetime ago. And even though it was only three years, you were only in the relationship for 10 months. You were only married for 10 months, right? So a lot can happen in a short amount of time. So just 'cause chronologically it's three years doesn't mean that there hasn't been, like, leaps and bounds in terms of change, and healing, and separation, which is why he's working so hard to keep you attached to him. Yes. And based on what... And that's the thing, people are so quiet about it, and they're like, "You shouldn't talk about it 'cause you're in litigation with him." Why do we have that mindset? Why shouldn't I be able to talk about it? He's talking about it to every- apparently he's talking about it to everybody. Why shouldn't I be able to talk about it? Yeah. It's- it silenced the victim, silenced the survivor, which just coddles the actual abuser, and then they get to spin their narrative, whichever one that is, which is that you're the, probably the gold-digging, lazy, reactive- Oh, yeah emotionally charged, highly manipulative, stole his spoons, your spoons, whoever's spoons you stole. Right? But he continues to drag you through court. Yes. And it is, at first it was the, it caught me off guard, because yeah he, he looks at it as he saved a starving mother. And that's something that was just, is always interesting to me. Okay. So but you opened this with saying that you sold your house in Georgia to relocate with him. So you were not a starving mom. At least, at the very least, you had a house. Oh, a very nice house with a mortgage that is almost $1,000 less than my rent that I'm paying now. I had it made. And I had just gotten approved to work at my children's school, so I was gonna be working there. It was like a substitute, like assistant- teacher kinda thing, so I would still be with my kids. And I didn't need much, 'cause I think my total bills then was less than $2,000. And we had all these neighbors. But he painted this picture and that it would just be, everything would be great with him, my kids would have the dad that they need, yada yada, you'll never have to worry about money again, 'cause I was stressing about money moving there, 'cause I paid for everything to move there. There was no action that backed it up. No, it was just empty words. Yes. It was just lies meant to ensnare you, and then once you had uprooted your life, it made things so much harder. Yes, exactly. But you still, even though it made life harder, you still did it, and that's the part that we have to actually focus and recognize, right? Because even though you left behind so much, and even though you were walking away with so much less than you had gone into the relationship with, you still did it. And if that's not bravery, I don't know what is. Yeah. Really, though. You did it. You did it. It would've been so much easier just to stay, because- Exactly, and that's what- So much easier I get it. I get it, 'cause people are like, "Oh, it's financial stability." Yep. "What are we gonna do?" Yep. Which is why we never shame people for staying. People stay for s- a myriad of reasons. There's so many reasons why people stay, oftentimes because if there's never been a raised voice or a raised hand, you have no idea that you're even being abused, and there's just enough good to keep you. But then you add in children and relocation- You don't have a support system, right? So you don't have a family that you can fall upon or friends or a community. Like you were by yourself, this little island with two dependent children and the threat of if you do this your ex is gonna get sole custody of your children. It means- So you easily could have stayed, right? You easily could have stayed but despite all of that you still escaped. I did. And you're building your life. And you're still building your life. Like we are always building our lives. Yeah. We're always learning and changing and healing and growing and we still make mistakes. Life is not perfect. He's still obviously obsessed with you because a person who was married for 10 months should be able... Maybe the ego is bruised for a little bit, but then you should be able to move on. But we're talking three years later and you're still in court. Yes. And you're still in court. Our divorce is, has been finalized for years. But now you're in court about a car. Yes, about a car that I didn't even want. That is the thing, I didn't even want and I later found out it was the car that his ex-wife wanted. But of course I found that after the fact. I'm like- Yeah that's a bit petty but- But that's how they operate though, right? I just kept trying to see the good. I'm like, maybe he really wanted this car too. Maybe that's what it is. He wanted to get rid of his very expensive car payment for his Tesla is what he wanted to do, and I gave that opportunity. And I somehow ended up taking on that massive car payment even though I wasn't working, but I've paid it ever since. And the thing is like they say that, They make it seem like we're obsessed with them, which cracks me up because he's been non-existent to me. I blocked him everywhere. He's persona non grata in your life. I know. The only reason you have any e- energy focused on him is because he is like Whac-A-Mole. Just when you think you've whacked him he's "Oh, just kidding, Sami. Here I am." Yeah. He's a Whac-A-Mole. He's a cockroach. They just don't go away. They don't, no matter what toxins you spray at them to try- to eradicate them from your life they... This is the thing. This is how you know that it was a very dysfunctional relationship because the average person we, you can be cheated on. I was cheated on. You can be cheated on and you- lick your wounds, especially when there's children involved. You just, "You know what? I need to do this for my children." Yeah. What we would do for our children. It always comes back to that, right? This type of personality does not forget. And they certainly do not forgive. And even though you did nothing wrong in the relationship, he can't take accountability for being at fault, right? You are public enemy number one, and it doesn't matter if he was cheating on you, it doesn't matter if he discarded you, it doesn't matter if he has five new women in his new harem, doesn't matter if he drives a Tesla and has a big car- He still needs to go after you. He's still obsessed with hurting you and controlling you because abuse is always about control and power. Doesn't matter. Yep. Exactly. And I wish judges could see that, but they just... Family court judges, and this is going- Ah through family court because... And she even said, she's it's not like y'all have children. Yeah, and you should actually pause and stop and say, "Why is this dragging on?" Exactly. Who is at fault for dragging this on? He thinks it's me. 'Cause I just read your post today. Yeah, I just read your post today- and it's very clear that you are doing your, everything that you possibly can to sell this car, get rid of this car, pay off the debt, a debt that you didn't even want. No. And I had a car that was almost paid off, it was an Expedition, that I didn't even have to pay because... until I moved. Once I moved, I did have to start making that car payment. But prior to that was my alimony because my ex had cheated. It was an Expedition, almost completely paid off, and we didn't trade it in. I ended up selling it back to my ex, but he didn't like it 'cause it wasn't some fancy Expedition. It was an older- he also didn't like it because it was attached to your ex, so it probably emasculated him- Oh, yeah as a man. That too. And then you got the car that his ex-wife actually wanted, right? So- that was also like a screw you to his ex-wife. "Look, I have the newer, younger, prettier version of you, and we have the car that you wanted but didn't get." This is, everything they do is to hurt other people, is to prove their worth to other people is like a giant fuck you to everybody else in the world. Exactly. And it's awful. It is awful could you imagine living that way? Is, that is what's- They're miserable. They- And this is what I tell people. Despite what their Instagram stories say, despite how much they have, they might be the most handsome, most beautiful, wealthiest, they vacation, six times a year. Doesn't matter what they have, these people are so empty inside. There is no filling that void. It's a bottomless void. And no matter what they put in, it might be a temporary high like any addict. "I just bought a new house," or, "I just got a new girlfriend," or, "I just have a new boyfriend on the side," or, "I just got this new car." It's a temporary spike in their happy feelings and then that quickly goes away. Whereas you and I, we're like, "Man, I live in a smaller house than I have ever had before," but we're happy. Yeah. And I could even go smaller. That's the thing. I'm not about possessions. No. I don't need this. The thing is, yeah, it's a nice car. It's not a BMW. It's a Kia. It's not- I feel like when people hear that the payoff is gonna end up being like, I'm gonna end up paying over $80,000 for this car, and it is a Kia. You know what I coulda had for that? Yeah. I've never even had a luxury car. Like this to me is a luxury car. I didn't even need- I- Yeah But, you know- You were happy with your older car that was paid off for you. You had a house that your, that you could, you could actually afford your lifestyle beforehand. Yes. This wasn't about the lifestyle. This was about the connection. You felt connected to this person, and you were willing to uproot your life to connect- with this person, and he preyed upon that connection. He did but here you are, despite what he's doing, 'cause three years later you're still in court and you're divorced. But he still is trying to keep you engaged in the chaos. 'Cause that's how he thrives. These people thrive on chaos. We get exhausted, right? We get exhausted by lawsuits and court and communication and the, like the fights and the communi- like, all that stuff is oh gosh, I just need a break. That's why he was taking someone else to court when he took me to court. He's always, like when he filed divorce, he was suing someone else. I think they need to see- Just- like how many times this man has been in court in just- Yeah that county, and maybe red flag him to, Yeah let's take a look at it. But it actually wouldn't take that much extra energy for these professionals to actually look at the whole person. Let's look at the pattern here. What's the pattern? How many times has Sammy been to court? How many times has Sammy, filed motions? Versus, little Tucker. How many times has little Tucker been to court? Oh, it looks like he's been, 10 times in the last 10 months. Huh. Maybe that's a giant pulsating red flag. Exactly. Not even a little one, like a big one. And I bet, I'm thinking like if I had just called him or responded to an email, 'cause I did block him, but he got through an email a couple years ago. If I, even after he filed, like if I had just called him, I bet he would've dropped it. But I wasn't gonna give him that satisfaction, 'cause he, no ac- I've literally had zero acce- other than I know he watches my show. Given what he said the first day of court in September, mind you, that should've been a huge red flag to the judge that he filed early August and he didn't let me know until the night before. That's strategic. Like, how does she not see it? Yeah. And then she denied it and told me that this has gone on long enough, so I had to prove to her that this was never ordered. I had to contact my old lawyer, and he's "What's gone on long enough? Nothing was ever..." She had it in her head that this was ordered, and I had to prove to her it wasn't ordered it's like you constantly have to defend yourself Because he planted the narrative, right? Exactly. So then it was up to you. You had to disprove what he had laid down as the truth, right? Yes. He had created this fictitious narrative, and you had to counter that and prove that actually it was a whole bunch of lies. Yeah. Big pile of BS. And he's allowed to just worm around anywhere. Yeah this is the thing, is they throw so m- they just lob so much shit at the wall and hope that something sticks, and they create so much confusion that these judges are just like, "I don't even know, but obviously you're both at fault," right? Which is like a s- it's not high conflict. It's one person creating conflict, and the other person's me responding to it. Exactly. But despite all that, you're here. I am here. And you've built a thriving business. I have, and that's the thing. I say thriving, I get by just like everyone else. It's not something that is... I go through low times. It's a business. Yep. You go through low times and high times. Yep. And it's been lower than usual. I'm sure that has a lot to do with AI. I think people are coming around again. But I've never really gone and built... my focus was never really money. Yep. I've kept my prices very reasonable 'cause I know people are escaping abuse. They're financially abused and controlled. So I wouldn't s- you know, I've thrived, whereas I've been able to have more time with my kids. That's what I've wanted. But that's what thriving means. So success is typically defined as attached to a bottom line. How much money are you making? But success is very fluid. Yeah. Success for you and me is very different than, say, somebody else. To me- Yeah success is time. Yeah. It's engagement, and it's peace. I just... There's nothing more than just having peace and also playfulness, to be able to be playful because abuse really robs you of your ability to be playful, right? Yeah. And just be able to listen to music and dance around the kitchen while you're preparing stuff, or say, "Hey, kids, let's eat ice cream for dinner tonight." Oh my gosh," right? Just being able to live life on your terms, that's successful. That's thriving. It was a few months after I left. My kids were back, and we had our first dance party in the kitchen, and I... It daw- it was one of those moments like, we haven't done this since we lived in Georgia, 'cause I wasn't allowed to play my music. Yep. We weren't allowed to dance and make noise and- Yeah and he could blame it on his past. It doesn't matter allowed to be. Yeah, just to be. And- Just to exist and to take up space and to... Life is on your terms- and not catering to somebody else's constantly changing terms, right? 'Cause it's not always consistent. Consistency would be predictable. Then you can just adapt your life to predictability. Yeah. It's the unpredictable nature. There are some underlying rules- but typically it's today you can do this, but not all the time. And you can have music, but not this kind of music. Oh, actually, it's always changing. Yeah. And this is someone that very much told on himself, and of course at the time I didn't see it, but he very clearly told me there's no in between with him. You're either with him or you're against him. And that's it. And, and like it clicked a few- Yeah a few months later after I left. I was like, "That is true." Yeah. He- you- I am his mortal enemy now because- Yeah. You're either with him- This is- or you're against him exactly. There's no "Oh, okay we just parted ways. We outgrow each other." So you're either s- Team Little Tucker or you're not Team Little Tucker. That's his name, by the way, Little Tucker. Yeah. That's his name from now on. That is- Yeah. Little, Little Tucker. I am not Team Little Tucker. From people to be kept away from everyone. Yes yes these people, and I posted about this a couple of weeks ago. If we could... All these abusers, if they're verified abusers, let's just ship them off to an island- Hunger Games style where they just, have to fight it out for the best in class, and whoever wins, which means they have to kill the other people, gets the crown and they get to say, "I am the winner." Yeah. That is my sol- I'm just gonna leave that there. That's how we're gonna end today's podcast. Just think about that. Yes. Yeah. I truly don't believe in harm. I wish these people would find happiness. I truly do because not only would it positively impact us and our children, but society at large. But we can't be responsible for them. We can't control them. They're very rarely ever going to do the work that's required. Yeah. And until that time- And they're not the problem oh, everybody else is the problem. Until that time, let's have a little island where we ship them all off and they can duke it out themselves, and we can just live our best lives, outside of their chaos. thank you so much, Sammy, for being on today. For sharing your story. I'd love to have you on again. I feel like there's lots of layers to this story. We've just, like we've just done the surface one and we've barely peeled it back. But I really appreciate you, especially because you have a lot going on in the background right now, including two kids that are home. so I appreciate your time, and also being- vulnerable and open and sharing your story with other people. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it, really. And I hope sharing anything, it helps someone know that you know what? Things can get better. I'm not alone. They are not alone. Yeah. And it just takes one little, one little tidbit, and it's that's the part that I was looking for, and now that I have that tidbit, I can do something with it. That's why talking is so important, and not being silent and not having shame or guilt about what's happened to us. We are not responsible for what happened to us. We are responsible for our healing, and that's the unfair part. But we are not responsible for what somebody chose to do to us. And it's a choice. Exactly. They have a choice, and they choose to do this. Exactly. They chose it. And we're choosing to heal from it- however we need to heal. Yeah, exactly. W- we, all the rest of us are doing the work to heal. That's also the giant red flag, right? Like- Yes one person's not doing the work, and everybody else around them in their orbit is doing the work to heal. Yeah. Yeah. On that note, thank you so much, Sammy. Yes, you're welcome. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to the Survivor's Playbook. If today's episode helped you feel less alone, more confident, more capable, more empowered, and more educated, share it with somebody else who might need it. And if you're ready for deeper support, you can join my monthly membership or grab free tools on my website. All links are in my show notes. Remember, your clarity is your power. Your calm is your resistance. You are not crazy, you are not alone, and you are not powerless. Until next time, keep going. I see you.