Why Understanding Sensory Systems Is the Secret to Regulating Autism's Meltdowns with Laura Petix

"Ever thought, ‘What do butterflies and autism have in common?’ 💭 

Turns out, a lot more than you’d think. It’s all about transformation and small changes making a big impact.
 Drop a 🦋 if you believe in the power of tiny shifts to create big results in neurodiversity support!

 In our chat with Laura, she shared how her butterfly branding isn’t just pretty, it symbolizes meaningful change, from personal growth to big societal impacts, inspired by her nana’s butterfly collection. 🦋

 She emphasizes that understanding sensory systems, like interoception, vestibular, and proprioception, is key to helping kids regulate and thrive. And guess what? Adults benefit too!

 Knowing that a meltdown isn’t always a 'bad behavior' but signals nervous system dysregulation can radically change how we respond, making support more compassionate and effective.

 What small change could make a big difference in how you support your child's sensory needs? Share your thoughts below!

Want to learn more from Laura? Go to:

https://theotbutterfly.com/

We want to hear from you! Follow us and leave a comment on our Instagram at ThePolarisConnection or reach us at Info@PolarisAcademy.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

That's music to my ears. That's my approach to everything. Is that like my number one step in supporting any family or teacher is not like what to fix with the kid. It's like, well, what can we do around them to just already make this less of a problem?

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Hello everyone and welcome to the Polaris Connection, connecting parents of autistic children with industry experts. Each week we navigate the world of autism together, bringing you real conversations from specialists who truly get it. The journey is challenging, but you don't have to walk it alone. So settle in, let's connect, and do some good. I am your host, Brad Broils, and I'm here with my podcast bestie, co-host Nathan Palmer.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Brad, always a pleasure to be here. I am so excited for today. Like I've got butterflies in my stomach thinking about it. It's awesome. I think it's because we are here today with the OT butterfly.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yes, yes. And and we can do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

That was a great segue. Thank you. I try.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Thank you. Dad, dad jokes are what I do. That's at the best.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Dad jokes are the best. I'm a big fan. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Well, we are here with Laura Penix from the OT Butterfly. Laura, thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

I am so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Okay, listen, I need to interject for just a second. I know we have a really huge bio and background, which actually I'm reading is pretty darn impressive, but your name reminds me of pet and you've got butterfly. And it's like, I kind of want to pet a butterfly now.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

You know, um, the funny thing is is that like I love looking at butterflies and I think they're beautiful, but I actually have a fear of butterflies, like especially touching them. Someone when I I think it was like my cousin growing up, someone told me that if you touch a butterfly's wings that you go blind or like so I think I think at some point parents had said that to like leave butterflies alone, but like up until now, I think I asked someone recently who's like into like insects, and they're like, No, you're you're not gonna go blind. I'm like, okay, but now I just have this lifelong fear, but like I keep it all over because they just mean a lot to me in other ways. So there you go.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Well, that's awesome. I remember hearing that as a kid too. And and Nathan, before we get to her bio, I wanted to explain why. Yes, you're my podcast bestie. I get that, but I got that from actually Laura's uh daughter. So in your podcast, Laura, your daughter introduces you. What she's like six years old, Lillian, right? And she's Liliana. Yeah. Liliana, thank you. Um, that you are the new, you that you are the new OT mom bestie.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yes, yes. That's what I want to be. I want to be everybody's OT mom bestie. I want to be everyone's bestie who and they could like trust me for OT advice, but like I keep it very real and realistic and practical. So I just want to feel like you I'm in your back pocket and you could just ask me whatever you want. Zero judgment.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Oh, I love it. When especially when it comes from a six-year-old, I'm like, okay, you got me.

unknown 3:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

They're no filter. So you got to take her at face value. She means what she says.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

And Laura, you have an extensive background. I know Nathan wanted to share a few things with our audience about what makes Laura so special.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Yeah, I mean, listen, I may get some things wrong, but I mean, knowing that one, you're a pediatric occupational therapist, which is awesome, an author. Um, you kind of have a nationally recognized voice from your podcast. You also have a very detailed and expansive blog network of just all these different topics for parents, for professionals, founder of the OT Butterfly, you know, leading education platform for that a lot of parents have relied on and entrusted as a resource for them, background in clinical practice, research, large-scale digital education. I mean, it's you are I don't know if butterfly is the right term. I mean, you're almost like the OT dominator.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Oh, I love that. You know what? It's uh it's the perfect use of my ADHD. It's like hyper fixation on like a topic, neurodiversity. And I just love having multiple projects and deadlines at once. That's when I'm the most productive rather than working on one project. So that's why I have like so many things because I would just get bored if I was doing one thing, the same thing every day. So it feels like I do a lot, but it's intentional because that's what actually keeps me going and actually sticking to a deadline. If I have multiple deadlines, it's it's the chef's kiss. It's like using my ADHD to its like full potential.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

Okay, now then help me close a gap here because you sound like a very intentional person. And I'm hearing from you that you have these fears of butterflies and yet you brand as the OT butterfly. What is the connection there?

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Yeah. So when I first started and I needed a name for like my online space, I was, I couldn't think of anything. And I first, so the first thing I thought of was like, what logo do I want? And I really liked butterflies because um my grandmother, everything in her house was butterfly. She had a butterfly restaurant, she had butterfly bedspread dishes, wallpaper, everything was butterfly. And at the time in 2019, she recently passed. And so this was very fresh in my mind. I'm like, I'm just gonna be the OT butterfly and I'll change it if I don't want to. I just need to get started. And I just like threw that on there. I registered as the OT butterfly, and it ended up sticking. And, you know, throughout the times of talking about it, it just made such a great um it's a wonderful symbol of transformation, right? Of like and um metamorphosis, of starting off as something and then turning into something that's independent and beautiful and unique on its own. And then also um realizing that the butterfly effect, what the definition of that is, is right, small changes can make a really big impact. Like changing one tiny thing can have a huge impact. So, all around, like I just randomly chose this. I like butterflies, they're pretty. It makes me think of my grandma. And then like the meaning came after it, and now obviously I've never changed the name, and I don't think I ever will.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Well, and I love the association with autism. Like, we always think about the small, simple wins. Yeah, small wins make a big effect, just like the butterfly effect. Yes. Love it.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

You know, I and I I love the intentionality behind that. It's funny because when I first saw Butterfly, and this is, I mean this as a compliment to your field, every great OT that I've met is kind of just like a butterfly. You guys are just naturally organic, you're free-flowing. And and I think that's germane to that whole approach of what OT is about, that nervous system reset, that safety response, that felt safety. It's just uh I can't couldn't think of a better symbol. It seems to suit you well and your personality along with the mission that you're trying to accomplish. So bravo to you and thank you for such an intentional approach to your work.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

I I just see, I just imagine you just flying around, just doing good to all these kids and people around you. Just a sprinkle here, a sprinkle there.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Oh, that makes me so happy. I'm like your sensory godmother. That's what I am.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

You're the OT Mom bestie and the sensory godmother. Sensory godmother. I'll be all of it.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

I'll be all of it. Yes, that's me.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

I love it. Well, and and as Nathan has mentioned, you have you're an author, you have a wonderful, rigorous program that you have on your website. Wanted to talk a little bit about the book that you have, a kid book for about neurodiversity. What was the genesis of that? What why did you write it? What what what can our audience learn about it and tell us more about it?

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Yeah, so I wrote a kid's book about neurodiversity with the publisher at the time, was a kids co who has now um licensed their books to DK, but they still have a whole line of a kids' book about and they really make um these sort of like bigger, more serious topics for kids in a way that is digestible for kids, but it's also in a way that presumes competence. So we use the real words, we don't, we don't uh kiddify all of the things, right? There's not a bunch of illustrations. We really want to um honor the fact that kids should be able to learn about these big topics and we don't have to like make everything sound like little kid stuff, but we want to help them understand it. And um it's something that I have found my really, really, really like micro-niche expertise in is um translating neurodiversity to kids and helping them understand it. And so I was having this conversation over and over at schools with my daughter, with her friends, with telling my clients how to talk to their kids about neurodiversity. So I essentially had this book written, like the script of it already. It was just easy, low-hanging fruit, the content that I just was like, this could just be scalable so everybody could have it. But what I think sometimes surprises people about the book is that I actually wrote it more for neurotypical kids. If you read the book, it's really helping them understand that there are differences around them at school and at home and at the playground, and that that's something that should be more celebrated and better understood, and that we should be more inclusive of them. It's it's I wrote it on behalf of neurodivergent kids and their families because I always feel the burden to explain behaviors and to like before a play date, oh, just just so you know, she has this thing. You know, like I feel like we always have to explain things either proactively or reactively if so if if they have a certain behavior. And I'm like, just wouldn't it be great if just kids just knew to expect differences around them and that that was just the norm? Um, so the book is a oh yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 10:07

I didn't mean to interrupt. That's a great point because so often, and and it's it's not to anybody's detriment. We we look at how do we support these kids that are neurodivergent. You know, I've got four boys, one on the spectrum and three that are not. And to have a resource for the three, right? To to teach them how to interact with their neurodiverse brother or how to not feel so odd or awkward around it. So it's the resource for the rest of us, so that you know, we a lot of times in in this space, we talk about how you know you're trying to put a round peg into a square hole or vice versa. And um, you know, society would have us fix the peg or the kid, but the more we can help society mold around to this, the easier their integration into society becomes. So I I love the approach that the resource is not just for the neurodiverse, the resource is for the rest of us so that their experience can be integrated with us as well. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yes, that's exactly right. That's music to my ears. That's my approach to everything, is that like my number one step in supporting any family or teacher is not like what to fix with the kid? It's like, well, what can we do around them to just already make this less of a problem? That we don't have to like change the kid or worry about that. Yeah, we want to build skills eventually, but that's not really like my first, my first approach. Um, so yeah, and that's that's the story behind the book.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Well, and with the book, who is who's kind of the audience? Is it is it for children? Is it for adults? Is it for educators? Is it for parents? Who would most likely read it?

SPEAKER_00 11:41

So it's for kids ages five to nine. Um, having said that, I have heard from a lot of families 10 to 12 year olds who who end up liking the book. Um, so it's intended for kids, but I get so many messages and emails from parents who said, like, I was reading this next to grandma and grandma starting picking up on some of the language, or you know, the judgy uncle in the back all of a sudden was like perking up. And so, like I said, the book itself, it's a kid's book, but the the whole line of book, a kid's book about all of their topics, I highly recommend everyone check them out. We're presuming competence. Like we use the real words. We don't, we define them and we explain them in the way that helps kids understand what they are. But like you could pick this up as an adult and and read it and f and find interesting facts and not feel like it's like a kitty, like little children's book, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Yeah, it's almost like you want to do like an adult book about neurodiversity, a teenage book about neurodiversity, uh, a you know, neurodiv a book about four dummies about neurodiversity.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Yeah. Well, I have a parents' book coming out in the fall. It's not called a parents book about neurodiversity, but I have a book for parents coming out in the fall after um being asked for so many years to do that. So it's finally coming.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

Awesome. So I'm I'm curious, Laura, your so your role, you know, um the field of OT is very broad. And we've we've had OT specialists on this podcast before. For for those that aren't familiar, um, and and maybe I just asked you if you were to give the layman's term definition, like what does it mean to have OT support? And then we'll build off that.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Yeah. So the whole field of occupational therapy was built around the premise of helping people be able to participate in their daily lives in things that are meaningful and purposeful to them. So that's very broad and general. And it and it's it's like that by design, because what I do in my daily life that's meaningful and purposeful to me is different than what you do in your daily life that's meaningful and purposeful to you, right? Depending on the roles that we are, the what we how we what we do in our house and if if we're in school and things like that. So then when we like take a closer look at like the population we serve, I do that for neurodivergent kids. So when we think about what they, what takes up their daily life, that is learning at school, playing with friends, eating, taking a shower, going to the bathroom, going to bed, going to birthday parties, right? So all of those things in their day that they do or want to do, OTs find ways to make that easier. That's the simplest way to make it easier. And the approaches that we take can be different based on what setting you're in. In my setting, I focus on the nervous system. So I find ways to accommodate the environment and also to add in sensory strategies to help their nervous system get to like this comfort level that allows them to really strengthen their participation skills and enjoy parts of their day without having to stress so much about their body.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Okay. Now, from a parent side, and it's funny, Laura, because I my son's been on the spectrum a long time and I he's had OT over the years, and I've asked a number of OTs, what is OT? And we all circle, it's a very broad thing.

unknown 15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

Can I give at least my best attempt at a simple explanation? You tell me where I'm right or wrong. But I think this is important because understanding the supports for our kids and where to turn is key. And if you don't understand a resource, you're not going to use it. So at a core level, I've always seen OT as a blend of two main areas. And I'm sorry if that's just too simple, but one is the nervous system, right? That that nervous system regulation response, how I act, interact, and respond to various environments and inputs. So the nervous system is different than the brain, right? It's the fight or flight, it's the comfort level, it's it's regulating my heart rate and feelings. It's it's a much more sensory, if I'm gonna use that word, driven response or a sensation where I'm feeling more than I am consciously thinking, but those two systems relate. And the other is more functional skills if I'm working on fine motor interaction. And those are the two biggest areas I've seen with OT, different than ABA, which is more behavior-based, or I'm gonna say a brain-first approach. Um and if I had to simplify them even more, it's the difference between a tantrum and a meltdown, right? A meltdown is my nervous systems become dysregulated, a tantrum is I'm choosing something and it's a function of behavior. So is that kind of my hitting on the right points there?

SPEAKER_00 16:28

I think that's a great start, especially if we're thinking about our particular if you're just talking about our commonality, like our audience, right? Like autistic community or neurodivergence or sense or kids with sensory needs. I think that's a great way to help parents understand the difference, is that the OTs are really looking more beyond the brain. We're always gonna consider brain and development and skills that come from a top-down approach, but we're you're gonna see more sustainable change and more effective change when you're working bottom-up approach with those gross motor skills and foundational core skills and nervous system skills, which will then directly affect behavior. So we kind of do that approach.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

Cool. That you said it even better than I did. I just it just helps. I have a lot of practice. I think I'm sure you do. And it's funny because the more I learn about the field of OT, the more I actually appreciate those techniques as a parent, as a spouse. Like I'm I'm learning about nervous system dysregulation and how it drives fight or flight or drives these response patterns that are negative patterns and defeating patterns. And truthfully, I think every human being on earth would benefit from understanding an OT, how to reset your own nervous system because we're never going to be good at being a co-regulation partner for our kids if we can't first self-regulate and be that grounded position, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:54

And to have that empathy of understanding how easy it uses easy it is for us to even get out of control with what we're saying and acting and doing from our nervous system. Because how many times do we lose our temper because it's the long day and we're overstimulated? Like just being able to understand that that's even how our body works as adults, to then understand, oh, this must be really tough for a kid who doesn't even understand their nervous system, let alone have the brain pathways to like access that regulation as a fully functioning adult. It's still, it's not, I'm not perfect. Right. And so having that compassion and awareness goes a very long way in our relationship with our kids.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Now, Laura, I was curious. On your website, you have a lot of programs, guides for the home, guide for parents, guide for families. I noticed that the first two was guide number one was from stress to dress.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

And the sensory cup, cup lessons.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

I'm curious why those were the top. I don't know if you did that by design, but I just it really stuck out as like, wow, that's the first ones that you see. Do you find those as common questions that families have or are concerned?

SPEAKER_00 19:11

So the way it's organized is more more like guide webinar course. So it wasn't as intentional in terms of like what you see first, but I will say that from dress from stress to dress is my most popular selling resource. Um, because if you've noticed from my blogs and since when I was actually in the clinic, I have found a very specific way to work with kids with clothing sensitivities since I was like a brand new OT. I just happened to get those clients always on my caseloads. So I just got really good at creating a home program that worked for them and helped their parents understand it. Like I would hand write these programs every like every time I graduated a kid or every time I have. So after I left the clinic and I had more time to dedicate to this, I was like, I'm I'm turning this into a manual, like a digital, because like uh this has to be out there more. Um, and it was funny because I was great at this before I became a parent. And lo and behold, I was given a wonderful child who her number one sensory trigger is clothing. So I was the best person to be able to support her through those things and test, put my program really to the test. Um, and so my like my most popular like blogs are the ones about clothing sensitivities. People send their kids to me about clothing stuff. Like I just happen to be the clothing sensitivity OT person. And so that program's another name.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

It's another one. I just do it all. Yeah, you're OT butterfly. You're the mom bestie. Yes now you're the sensory. There you go. There you go. Oh, you had another one too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

So that one, so that program is just because like it, that just really is my bread and butter. Like I know it so well and I know that it works for families. And then the sensory cup one is is there as well. That's like a newer offering that came about after I shared on Instagram um some behind the scenes of me working with some clients on talking to kids about their sensory cup. Again, my favorite thing is talking to kids about how their brain and bodies work, um, making sure that they understand this about themselves. So it's like um, how to do how to help kids understand what fills their sensory cup, how to dip out from their sensory cup, and what it means if they have like a small sensory cup versus big sensory cup to help them understand like why certain parts of their day are more triggering. Um, and then adding on top of that, it has like a menu of items that they can explore to cut and paste onto their sensory cup to show what's something that fills their cup, what dips their cup. And I actually recommend families do that all together so that, you know, mom and dad have a sensory cup on the fridge. And this is what fills mom's sensory cup, this is what fills dad's, and here's sister and brother's, so that they can all kind of collectively understand. Everybody has different sensory needs, and there's like a visual. Representation. And so I know not to take it personally when my sister asks me to use a quieter voice. Um, and I know that if my brother is upset, that something that helps remove stress from a sensory cup is giving him a weighted stuffy. So maybe I could help him and bring that to him as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Well, it sounds like a lot of families can use that. You know, I have six kids and we have sensory issues all over the place. So that's a that's a good that's a good remote.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Everybody needs to know each other's sensory cups. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

So now we use the word sensory a lot. And just to be clear, when you're talking about sensory, we're talking about the senses, right? So visual, sight, smell, taste, touch, sound, right? Um, and so you're you're you're really just talking about how we like to be interacted with and how we like our environment surrounding those senses. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 22:52

That's right. And understanding that everybody has a few sensory preferences that they want more of, that they really like, that they can't get enough of, and some that they really don't like, prefer to avoid, it makes them feel stressed, they don't like it, and some that they're just like, eh, whatever about. And so exploring those for everybody um is really key.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

And on your site, you have this thing called the sensory detectives boot camp. So I'm guessing that's kind of the core. That's that's that discovery. Because honestly, if if I hadn't have thought about this, I wouldn't be thinking what would go in my sensory cup. Like that's just not how my brain works. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Um, it's not how most people's brain work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Because it's more well that and I wanted to deep dive or ask a question on that. Like, what tell me about the sensory detective boot camp? Like what would what would go into that type of curriculum?

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Yeah. So this is my I used to offer it a few times a year. Now it's more like one time a year, but this is my favorite. If I had to pick a favorite out of all my programs, it's a sensory detectives boot camp. It allows me to coach parents in a group setting virtually over a span of five weeks, where I teach them about the three, I call them like the VIP sensory players when it comes to regulation, right? We have eight sensory systems, but if you're talking about a sensory integration, sensory OT, um, if you see us working in the gym at the um like an obstacle course or in a in a sensory room, we're really looking at tactile, which is touch, the vestibular system, which is more like movement-based, and proprioception system, which is our muscles and tendons and joints, also movement-based, but more of your whole body. We look at those three as like the main, like the really VIP regulation players. So I instead of just teaching parents like about all eight senses, I'm like, I want to deep dive and teach you as much as you can know about tactile, vestibular, and proprioception and how to look at your child's behavior and understand if they need more of it or less of it to regulate. That's step one. And then step two, what are those things you can do in your house with the things that you already have? So it's interactive, it's showing them some examples. And then I we take breaks, like a week break between calls, and I'm like, go and try as many of these things out as possible, and then come back and report what works. And I, and it's that like that short, like five-week duration that feels doable for parents to have their brain all the way in the game rather than like something longer ongoing, um, where they kind of burn out. So five weeks is great for that. And then additionally, um, on top of the five calls, we also I have five videos for kids on the same exact topics that I talk to their parents about. And they're less than five minutes. And I'm talking to the kids about tactile vestibular proprioception, on uh nervous system regulation, um, and like implementing this into like a sensory lifestyle. So the parents have their learning time. Kids have their own resources to learn in a very short, short way. So that when they come together to explore the sensory detective homework that I give them, they're on the same page. And the parents know that the kids know what they're talking about, and it just makes the work more efficient.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

I love it. I love that you allow kind of that independent learning and then it comes together. So they're each doing something. So neither one's talking at the other, they're sharing the experience.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

But you so I don't know if you did it intentionally, Laura. You you just opened Pandora's box. It was what I was about to deep dive with you on.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

And we're gonna move to detective work. Yes. Well, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Put your detective hats on. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

But this is detective from the lay parent, but we're trying to understand your OT brain. And here's why. Two things I need to go over, and this is just a roadmap for maybe the next 20 minutes. One is you said we have eight senses. I was always taught we have five. Okay. Sound, smell, touch and tick.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

They totally lied to you.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

Awesome. So let's let's break the common lie that there's only five senses and that the magical sixth sense is still just part of the eight.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

No. So I'd love to I'd love to talk about the eight, just so that we're at a very you know 30,000 foot level understanding these systems and these senses. Because I think when we think sensory, what's out there in the world when you say I need to make this a sensory safe place, generally it's lighting and sound. I mean that that's typically where everybody goes to the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Or like if you look at sensory strategies, it's like a sensory bin with like beans and like little fillers, and like that's a sensory toy.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

Yeah. Exactly. So I want to I want to upgrade our dialogue there. The other thing is, and I love you for it, every OT that's worth their salt throws out these OT terms. And now listen, I've studied them. I have an idea what they mean, but for a lot of parents listening, when they hear vestibular and proprioceptive versus introsceptive and crossing the midline and sympathetic versus parasympathetic, it's a lot like that.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

I would love I'm exhausted already. I know.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

I would love to do a little bit of decoding of OT. All right. Um, because I think the more aware we can make parents of these systems, the more intentional they can be about their kids and the more they can understand what's going on under the surface. So Absolutely. Let's start. Can we start with the eight senses? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Yeah. Okay. So in kindergarten, even I got my daughter when she was in kindergarten, she came home with a paper that said, Look, mom, we've we learned about five senses, but there's eight, aren't there? And I was like, Yes. She goes, I told my teacher and she asked me to put my hand down. And I was like, Oh, okay. So uh yeah, there are more than the five senses that everybody can name, right? The three extra ones, as I kind of quickly blurted out, um, that I quickly blurted out two of them, but then there's one other one that you've already mentioned there. So one of them is proprioception. So these receptors are in your muscles and in your tendons and in your joints, and they send messages to your brain about the position of those muscles, tendons, and joints. So as you're moving against gravity, as you have resistance put against those muscles and tendons, you're sending information to your brain. And so your brain puts that together for a body map, an internal body map. So this is what allows us to have a good sense of our body and space, and it contributes towards um coordination and how we move our bodies and do certain skills. But it also is a universal um regulation input. Like everybody, if you ever talk to an OT, you will hear them at some point say, like, when in doubt, use heavy work. And heavy work is just our like easy term for saying proprioception because it's usually like lifting, pushing, pulling, chewing things, hanging from something. All of those actions provide proprioceptive input and it's universally regulating to everybody. It's just finding the right one that's key.

SPEAKER_03 29:55

Okay. So if I'm hearing you right, it's like awareness of my body's position in my environment. So I'm knowing where my arms and legs are in respect to me and the body structure. It's almost kind of like when I drive a car, I can't see the front of it, but I have a good sense of where it's at. Yeah. Right. So it's a it's awareness of these body systems in a physical context.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Yeah. So like the astronauts that just came back from space, the ones that were like floating around in in Artemis, that space shuttle that with when they were in zero gravity, like their proprioception system is not being as activated as it would be down on Earth, which is why a lot of the time coming back, in addition to the vestibular system, which we'll talk about in a second, um, they have a hard time learning back to walk and balance because they their brain is like disoriented and not having that same amount of sensory input for so many days and weeks at a time that it it kind of loses like that you are here map in your brain that tells you like how to move around, right? Um I'll move on to vestibular. Is that okay?

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Well, I just like the guideline when in doubt, use heavy work. When in doubt kids all the time.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Yes, when in doubt, if they're in dad.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

It helps when you're in doubt, use the heavy work.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

When you're in when you're anxious, it helps you bring down your nervous system to like more of a sense of calm. If you have too much like um displaced energy and your kids are really moving super fast and out of control and they need to settle down for dinner, heavy works for that, heavy work works for that as well. Um, so it's just there's a lot of great uses for it again. It's just about finding the right one for your kids.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

Um love it.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

So vestibular is the receptors are in your inner ear. You have them in both sides of your ears. Um, and they send information to your brain about your head's position against gravity. So proprioception is your whole body, whenever there's muscles, tendons, and joints, which includes part of the head with like the neck, right? But the vestibular is really about how your head is in position in space. So if it's like tilted to the right, if it's upside down, if it's spinning, that's what provides your brain with information about your um your head's position and so and how fast it's moving through through space. So this, so vestibular and proprioception work together for body awareness um and and balance. I often tell parents if your kid had um chronic ear infections like before age two, or like really in that like young age, like a lot, or you even had to have a procedure like in tubes put in. Um usually we will um a lot of the time, not every time, a lot of the time, see vestibular challenges relating to that because it's so tied anatomically to your ears that it affects the vestibular system. So usually on intake forms, a lot of OT clinics will ask about a history of ear infection for that reason.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

Interesting. And so, and that's that's that inner ear equilibrium that drives balance as well, right? And even that sense when you go upside down, that disorientation, that's all that inner ear regulation. Okay, so that's a you're right. That would be a sense, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

Okay, so we've got this, we've got the standard five. Yeah. We've got the proprioceptive, which is the body position in space. We have the vestibular, which is more the head, the inner ear, the balance and equilibrium. What is number magical number eight?

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Magical number eight is the interoception sense, and probably the one I've talked about the most over the last few years, especially in parent coaching, uh, especially with kids with emotional dysregulation. So interoception is your internal sensations from like your organs. Um, so when you notice your tummy feeling full from a meal or empty when it needs a meal, or when you can feel your bladder stretch or like those cues that you have to go to the bathroom, number one, or number two, um, when you're thirsty, you can feel your mouth kind of parched. Um, when you feel that sense of like heaviness and tiredness and fatigue, that's interoception. But even more importantly, when you notice your your heart pounding, you can like feel your heart pounding without putting your hand on there, noticing that is interoception. When you say, Oh, I have a sinking feeling in my gut, or my heart sank, that sensation inside, or when you're on a roller coaster and you drop, noticing that sensation in your tummy, that's interoception. And so if you think about it, uh interoception plays a large role in eating. So how much kids eat or not eat? It plays a huge role in sleep, whether they're feeling tired or not tired. It plays a huge role in toileting because a lot of kids don't recognize the cues that they have to go to the bathroom. Um, but it plays a huge role then in emotional regulation because for every emotion that we have, there's an interoception sensation that goes with it. It might be different for everybody, but you know, when I'm anxious, my heart is pounding. I get I get hot, I feel overheated. That's an interoception sensation. And just like kids can be sensitive to sound and like really hate sounds and feel uncomfortable in certain environments, they could be really sensitive to the sensation of their heart pounding or overheating, but they don't say that. They don't say, Oh, I really hate the way my heart is pounding so fast. They just melt down, quote, out of nowhere. They go from zero to 100. But I always tell parents they're not really at zero. They're always kind of hovering around 90, right? And so it's just this, these like unseen sensory triggers that usually are parents like, what the heck just happened? Why are they acting like this? That's the kids who are um poor sports, labeled poor sports, in quotes, because that sensation of losing, the embarrassment, the heat of your face when you feel embarrassed, that sensation itself is intolerable to some kids. And they are getting into fight or flight from the sensation rather than like, I just didn't want to lose the game. And that can be something that's really like a light bulb for some parents when they understand that piece to it.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

Yeah. So the work then it seems like is it's not so much the noticing of the sensation as it is the decoding. Right. Because understanding what hunger is versus what thirst is versus dysregulation or uh or increased heart rate, or because you'll have the sensation side, I'm feeling this thing that I don't like or that makes me feel uncomfortable, but understanding what it means is that next step.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Some, you know, for some kids, even um it's not always they're not always cognizant that they notice that their heart is is racing. It's just their body is just like, this feels terrible. And I immediate fight or flight. It's they're not really picking up on tuning into each thing. Some kids can, some kids can do that. My daughter is really um hyper-aware of her interoception senses. So her awareness of it is fantastic. And at the same time, even if she's aware of it, it still stresses her body out and she doesn't like that sensation. There are other kids who have a um, they don't have an awareness of their interoception cues. And so they'll say their knee hurts, and then they will like vomit an hour later, and it was actually like back pain or like a stomachache, or like the localization of it is tricky. They knew they felt off, they couldn't describe it. Um, so so that happens as well. So helping kids become aware of each part of their body and like being able to have that pathway to think about what your tummy feels like without looking at it or touching it and just know how your tummy feels and be able to describe it. That's a really tough skill. It's very abstract for some kids, but it's something that really helps a a lot with managing emotions because instead of just saying, It's okay, bud, calm down, you'll get another turn tomorrow. It's okay, your heart is beating fast and your face is red. Let's have a, let's put a cold washcloth on your neck and cool down your body. And let's take, you know, let's blow bubbles through a straw. And then the heart rate decreases, and then the um the face cools down, and then now we're not in fight or flight. And then we could say, I know you're you're upset about that. We're gonna have another try tomorrow. That's that's got it the mind and body emotional regulation piece that OTs are good at.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Wow, I got I got more questions than answers now. Very, very well put.

SPEAKER_03 38:46

I mean, I well so so I would uh from from what I'm hearing, and and and this is going back to what we started with, the the main focus of OT, right? You're you're talking about these systems responses, and now I'm understanding why, because all these other senses are built into this awareness of self and awareness of that nervous system in different states, so that you can address those before you really talk about instruction. And and I we had a guest on, I think it was Carrie Cariello that really had this big distinction. There's a difference between a tantrum and a meltdown. And while that's intuitive, it's still important to know if a child's having a tantrum, they're electively choosing not to do something, they're using behavior as a tool or a resource to get a preferred outcome. If they're having a meltdown, it's not conscious-based. They're not choosing to just let go. Their body has shut down and they're not capable of conscious thought. And so there's a distinction between a behavior-driven response and a body you're sent, nervous system-driven response and knowing which tool to utilize is key because I if my child's melting down, I can't go to them and logically say, don't worry, you're gonna get another term. They're not processing that. Their system's in shutdown, it's fight or flight. We need to regulate first, calm that part down, let the mind kind of take control again so the nervous system is not in the driver's seat, and then we can have a common discussion.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Yep, that's right. That's that's how we do it.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

Well, and Laura, uh, we appreciate all your insights and information that you bring. As we kind of wrap up our podcast show for today, what are some advice or you know, tips or tricks or something you'd like to share with our audience with these sensory needs that we just explained?

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Yeah, so I would say if you're just starting to want to understand your child's sensory needs and like have a starting point to understand what is it that they need more of, what is it that they need less of. I really encourage parents to go old school, get a notebook, a piece of paper, pretend like you're like on a national geographic show when you're like in the wild exploring something and like you're taking notes on like the natural habitat of your kid, like at the dinner table. Like if it's if it's notes on your phone or if you're trying to be more, you know, not on the digital phone, however, you take notes, but not just mental notes. It really helps to write it down or just have it somewhere. So spend like a week taking notes on what your child just does naturally, like at baseline. What are things that they are gravitating toward? Are they always swinging their feet at the table? Are they always rough and temple play with their sibling as soon as they get home from school until about four o'clock? And then they're kind of like slumped over on the couch. Are they, you know, like do they have more energy in the morning than in the afternoon? Is our Fridays a harder day? Like we're really trying to just put as much information down on paper. And then from there, we try to find patterns and help them try to see, you know, like, oh, seems like they're using their body, their arms and legs a lot. Like you could simplify it as much as that and say they're using their muscles a lot. Maybe they need, now you after listening to this podcast, maybe they need proprioceptive input. They need more heavy work. And then you could look more into heavy work. You could say they really don't like the sound of that thing. Okay, sound is something we need to explore. But I highly recommend just observing and taking notes, and you'll you'll find some patterns and then deep dive on just one or two of those things that you find so you don't feel overwhelmed by trying to do like all of the sensory things at once.

SPEAKER_03 42:25

Wow. Be a sensory detective. Yep. Yeah. I love that. Sorry to bring it all back around. But yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Do that by being a butterfly around all these sensors. The butterfly flew back around to the sensory detective. I'm going to bring that in every conversation today, a butterfly effect. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 42:45

And this and uh, Laura, there's you so number one, you've been so fantastic. I can't applaud you enough for the work you do. Um, we might invite you back again because there are still a number of decoded OT terms I would like to get to. Um in the meantime, parents can find you on your website, which is uh we'll we'll have all those details in the show notes. But like you you have blogs on all of these and you know, stuff that I didn't even get to go more into with things like the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system and crossing the midline, what co-regulation co-regulation means and praxy. And there's a whole bunch of other things that I think would just be great follow-up tools. So if you're open, we'd love to have you back again and do part two of decoding new world of OT.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Absolutely. When it gets closer, that my book is already available. That'll be a nice way to help parents continue their learning as well if they really want to deep dive. And I'd be happy to give some teasers about that when it gets closer.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Wonderful. We would love to have you on. Laura, thank you so much for being here today.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

And we also want to thank our audience. Thank you for making us part of your day. Please don't forget to subscribe so you never miss a conversation that inspires connection. Wanted to say thank you to our wonderful producer, Jason Palmer, and our marketer. Director Dallin Davis. Until next time, let's do some good.