Finding Joy in Holland: Amber Jackson's Journey Through Grief, Special Needs Parenting, and Grace

How do you keep moving forward when life hands you challenges that seem impossible to carry?
In this heartfelt episode of  The Polaris Connection, Brad and Nathan sit down with Amber Jackson, Instagrams @EnjoyingHolland, a mother of four whose journey has been marked by profound loss, unexpected turns, and extraordinary resilience. Amber is raising children with diverse needs, including autism, Down syndrome, and other neurodivergent challenges, while navigating life after divorce and the devastating loss of her husband to a brain tumor.
Rather than allowing hardship to define her story, Amber shares how she has learned to embrace life's imperfections, find beauty in the unexpected, and choose gratitude even in the midst of grief. Through honesty, humor, faith, and hard-earned wisdom, she offers a powerful perspective on parenting children with unique needs and finding joy in circumstances that may not look like what you originally planned.
This episode is an encouraging reminder that while we may not choose our trials, we can choose how we respond to them. Amber's insights will resonate with parents, caregivers, and anyone searching for hope, strength, and a deeper appreciation for life's unexpected gifts.

In this episode, you'll hear about: 

• Parenting children with autism, Down syndrome, and other neurodivergent needs
• Navigating divorce, grief, and widowhood
• Finding joy in unexpected circumstances
• Shifting perspective from hardship to gratitude
• Building resilience through life's greatest challenges
• Embracing the beauty of your unique journey

Amber's story is a powerful reminder that sometimes the most meaningful life isn't the one we planned, but the one we learn to love. ❤️

Follow Amber's journey at: 

https://www.instagram.com/enjoyingholland

We want to hear from you! Follow us and leave a comment on our Instagram at ThePolarisConnection or reach us at Info@PolarisAcademy.com

Transcript

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It was it was I was still in that stage where it was just such a struggle for me, and I was like, where is my joy? And then my dude at the time, who was four, we kind of started this little dance party in the kitchen, and then I was holding my four-month-old, and so I'm holding them both, and I had this moment where I was like, actually, today's a good day, and I'm really, really happy in this moment. And I just had this thought of like, I am the only one that can give my kids a happy mom who loves life. Hello everyone, and welcome to the Polaris Connection, connecting parents of autistic children with industry experts. Each week we navigate the world of autism together, bringing you real conversation from specialists who truly get it. The journey is challenging, but you don't have to walk it alone. So settle in, let's connect and do some good. I'm your host, Brad Broils, and I'm here with my Strufwaffle co-host, Nathan Palmer. What? Hang on. All right. Now listen, listen, everybody listening, it's unfortunate. You know what that is. I have no idea. Okay, here it is. It's what Strufwaffle, which is a Danish cookie, delicious caramel waffle cookie. It's warm, sweet, and impossible not to love just like a good friend. See? All right, Brad. Okay, you got me. Now listen, I for our listening audience, if you're new to the show, Brad introduces me by a different name every episode, and I find out the same time that you do, and I can usually play off of it. All I know about that one. I finally is I figured it had to be something Dutcher from Holland because Holland is where we are. We are gonna enjoy Holland with the Holland expert, Amber Jackson. Welcome to the connection. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. Well in Holland, apparently, with a nice cookie, which I love. Thank you. I've got a strip waffle in Holland. It really is that good. Well, that that's that is good. I just Well, you should have thrown me a bone, Amber. I would have appreciated one. So I I went that I sunk. And so for we've talked about this on the podcast before. If this is your first time, Amber, would you please explain why we are in Holland right now and why I apparently drowned and never got there? I know. It's a story that not a lot of people know. So I read this story years ago when my oldest was born with special needs. He has Down syndrome, but um, it's called Welcome to Holland. And it's this story that basically talks about your whole life. You plan this trip to Italy, and you plan and you prepare and you research and you learn about the culture and a little bit about the language, and then you get on the plane, and when you get there, they say welcome to Holland. And you say, Hold on, I'm not supposed to be in Holland. I'm supposed to be in Italy with all of the fun Italian things. And then over time, um, well, at first you're mad and you're sad and you're angry and you're upset and you feel all the feelings. And then as time goes on, you realize that Holland really is beautiful. There's tulips and there's windmills, and there's art and history and culture. And it's not what you originally wanted, but you do fall in love with this life in Holland. And so that was just kind of where I feel like I've jumped into. I'm gonna enjoy the Holland that I'm in. Well, and so when when you first heard, like, when did this concept come into your life? So tell us a little bit more about when did that moment happen and what did this, you know, story mean to you at that time? Yeah. So my oldest was born with Down syndrome, and we found out at birth. We didn't know in any of the pre-screening tests that we did when I was pregnant. So um I fell into a really deep postpartum depression after I had my oldest. I don't know if it was just postpartum blues that you have or it was his diagnosis. I'm not 100% sure, but I just felt really bad that he had to have me as a mom. And I was awful. I was 21. I was just a brand new mom. And then I think, oh, there's this child that's gonna need so much from me. And I was like, I have no idea what I'm doing. And so at the time, you just knew that he had Down syndrome. I just knew he had Down syndrome. Yeah. And so it was just a whole new world for me. And so I read this. I someone gave it to me a couple months after he was born when I was just really struggling. And I realized that more than anything, he just wants to be loved. Like, I'll learn, I have resources at my disposal over as time goes on. Like I will do more and more for him, but he just needs to be loved. And um, you know, I did have a little grieving period of him, you know, not playing sports or not possibly dating or getting married someday. He is gonna live with me the rest of his life. So there was some grieving of what his life would look like, but I realized that a life with my Jude is his name, is just absolutely phenomenal. And he's 15 now, and if you know him at all, he is like the coolest person you'll ever meet in your life. So, um, so that was 15 years ago that I first I first read it. And then I feel like as big things have come in my life, I've just kind of had this like, okay, I'm back in Holland, but I'm still gonna enjoy where life is taking me. So yeah. Well, and again, you know, like you said, it's not that Holland's bad. No, but it wasn't like, you know, getting Italy. Yeah. And that's kind of I and I love this story, I love this concept. You know, I've been to Italy, it's in it's gorgeous. I've always wanted to go to Holland, but tell us more about like that early experience with Jude. So you had your child, Down syndrome, you're going through part postpartum depression. When somebody kind of gives you a poem like this, sometimes it's like, hey, get out of here. I don't want to hear this now. It really is. You know, like this is the worst timing for this. Tell me, tell us, tell our audience about that, those, those moments and experiences. Um, thankfully, I did not have that experience. Mine really was like, I remember bringing him home from the hospital and I was like, Well, what do I do now? You know, and it was just like I felt like even things like feeding him, I was gonna do it wrong, or just holding him, I was gonna do it wrong. And so then as time went on, and I read this this poem when he was about three or four months old, I just realized um, you know, I remember it when he smiled at me for the first time, and I just thought, like, oh, there is just this beautiful baby boy that more than anything, like I said, just needs my love. He just needs me to love him. And so I just celebrated little wins that he had. They um, you know, his milestones, they came um later than what typical children do. But I he was just the most fun, chill baby that you could ever have. And I just realized that even though he looked different than other children, like he was just so special. So yeah, it was not what I I it's hard to say it's not what I would have wanted, it's just not what I expected, you know, finding out finding out at birth. But um But I think it's okay to say, Ambert, it's not what you wanted. Like I know we're careful because in in the context, that would mean you didn't want your kid, and I don't think that's what it means. But you didn't want a child with more challenges than a regular kid. Right. Right? And yeah, the reason I say it's okay to say that is because and take it from a guy, it is really easy to hide from grief. And it is really easy to mask it for something else and not acknowledge it for what it is. And sometimes when you run away from grief for so long, eventually it catches up with a vengeance. Yeah. And so and I I didn't mean to I'm not calling you out, but I think there's there are parents at a lot of various stages listening. And some of them are right in that early stage. Yeah. And to I think sometimes we tr we tend to shortcut grief for acceptance. And again, that process, it catches us. So it's for those that are are grieving or wishing their circumstance was different, that's okay. Right. And I think that I think that's almost a necessary part of being able to choose later. Yes. I think so. And I think allowing myself in those early years to be like, I am gonna miss this life that I thought I was gonna have with him allowed me in in other years. And I feel like I even still now have times where I'm a little bit sad for this life that he doesn't get to live, even though we have this beautiful life. I do, you know, he just finished his freshman year. He's going into um being a he's gonna be a sophomore next year, but his high school experience is completely different than other children his age. And for me, sometimes that is tricky. That's a hard um thing. Those are hard feelings for me to navigate, knowing that he just doesn't get the same high school experience that other kids get to have. Well, and and and like you said, it's kind of in a way, from time to time, it's grieving throughout that, you know, the opportunities that he might not have that you know that would be good for him as well. But you're enjoying a new Holland with him. And and so for our audience, Amber Jackson is a celebrity, right? You're a local, you're you're a local influencer. For those who who haven't met you yet, please go to your Instagram account. You have a lot of great content up there about your story. And yeah, what I like about Amber Nathan is that she goes around and gives inspirational, you know, lectures and talks to those families out there who might not feel like, hey, I went to Italy, but now I'm in Holland. What do I do with it? And you have a very unique story. And I I would love if you can just share your story here, and that's kind of why we want you to be here. We hope that it connects a lot with our families out there. And your story does bring a uh it's a it's a story of hope, of you know, perseverance, of faith, um, and just overcoming you know life's challenges out there, and sometimes they're just flat out not fair. Yeah, you know? So we would love to hear your story and inspiration. You want all of it? Yeah, let's do it. That's why we're here dive in. We we may interrupt and ask here and there, but um we told our audience to settle in so we can connect. So here we go. Um, okay, so I got married pretty soon out of high school, and then that was when um I had Jude about two years later, and we found out at birth that he has Down syndrome, and he's absolutely incredible. And then um a few years later, we had our second son, our Maxwell. Um, it was around that same time that Jude was diagnosed with autism. So he has a dual diagnosis of both Down syndrome and autism. So that was a lot to take in. And then when our my boys were four and four months old, is when my husband and I separated and we got divorced. Um long story short, over the next year and a half, we ended up getting married again, we got divorced again. So that was the whole thing in itself. That was a that was a time in my life when I was like, all right, I'm back in I'm back in Holland. I have these this special needs child and this newborn and everything. And then um, I ended up meeting my second husband, and we have two kids together. And then um, he was after when our youngest was a month old, he was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. And then he passed away. It'll be four years in a few weeks. So and then through all of that, in the last year, my now 11-year-old, so my second son with my first husband has been diagnosed with autism and PDA. And then my daughter, who is seven, who's the first child with my second husband, um, she has autism, ADHD, and PDA as well. And that was within the last like six months that she was diagnosed. Wow. And yeah, that's a that's a lot a lot of unravel. So, what you're saying, Amber, is you have an annual pass to Holland and you visit frequently. It's what I it's what I feel. Like I so anytime something in life happens, I'm like, okay, this is I'm back in my Holland, which I will say, side side note, um, after my husband died, I did go to Holland about nine months later. I invited my parents and I spent about two weeks there because I really just had to get a full taste of what the real Holland was like. So any big inspirations while being in Holland that resonated with you? It was just absolutely beautiful the whole time. I really felt like it was such a like spiritual sacred experience for me because you know, at that time my my second two children had not been diagnosed with autism yet. So it was just my oldest. But I, you know, my kids were 11, 7, 3, and 17 months old when my husband died. And so it really was this um life felt really heavy at the time, but then I was on this amazing, incredible trip in this beautiful place. And so it was like there is still so much beauty in the world that can be had and can be shared. And I was there with my parents who were such cheerleaders, still are throughout everything that happens in my life. And so it was just this reminder that like there's so much life to live and beautiful things to behold in the world. Okay, I'm gonna ask, and maybe it's a weird question, Amber. Go ahead. So we moved through a very complex story very quickly that's what we did, right, Dan? And true to what we were told about you, you had nothing but poise and smile and joy while you told that story, which first off, um I can't thank you enough for bringing such optimism and just perspective for what otherwise should have been really challenging. But as I'm listening to your story, I'm finding myself in this commonplace, and I've been here a lot, and I'm sure a lot of other people have, and it's this question I mold over over and over again. From someone that's been through that, how do people around you or what's been effective for them to be a support for you? I I'm the kind of guy like I like to step in and help. And if for for as much as I know it's wrong, I want to pull people out of grief, which isn't necessarily right because going through it is probably the better thing, right? It is. And without knowing, I think we help or maybe even make things worse because we're trying to help in the wrong ways. What actually was helpful? You talked about like your parents as a support. What advice is there for people to that know others struggling? How can we be there for them? What was helpful for you that maybe can give them a nugget of how to be there for others? Um, I the first thing that comes to my mind is honestly just be a listening ear. There are many times where I'm in my head so much and I'm trying to figure out like, what does this child need and what does that child need? And did I do that right? Did I handle that situation the way I should have? And so I have friends and people in my life that I turn to and I'm like, I ask people, can you be my husband for a second? And I just kind of talk it out loud and I get their opinion on like, I'm really struggling with this with this particular child or this situation. And I just feel like them listening and then offering like um their honest advice and then um I don't know the right way to say it, but like just their constructive, really good. Um, they don't just how am I trying to say this? They don't just like pet me up and be like, no, but you're doing great and it's wonderful. They're like, but honestly, have you tried this and have you tried that? And I'm like, actually, no, I I haven't. And so I think being a listening ear, because I get so caught up in my own head sometimes that it's just nice to have somebody there to listen, whether or not I need advice or I need someone to just listen when I say, like, this is really, really hard. And nobody is understanding how hard this is for me. Just someone to listen and just be like, I see you has been really helpful. Well, that's helpful. I mean, just uh on the one side, knowing just being a listening ear is helpful because I can listen. Yeah right. Um but I like how you said being honest and not I I I guess that it would be the opposite placating, not just addressing over the issue or just false reassurance, but actually giving their honest feedback. Somebody you could rely on, right? Something that's an actual thing that is dependable, not feeding you back context that doesn't help. Right, right, right. Well, you know, and I think about our neurodivergent friends out there that you know, we we hear this a lot is like what do you how do you navigate them or how do you work with them? Be present. Like just be just be there, be with them. You know? Being there is enough. Yeah. So that may mean, I mean, for those listening that are that are spouses or siblings or that know people that are grieving, it means sometimes changing your ticket and going to Holland for a bit too. Truly. Right? Yeah. Right. And because because the flip side of that is what I would find myself doing, Amber, like I'm listening to your story and I'm like already grieving for you. Right? And and that doesn't do anybody any good because you've got enough to deal with. And so I think our tendency is, and maybe it's just a byproduct of compassion we hear and like we get sad, and then we we become this additional stone. And so if I was grieving, why do I want to be around somebody else? It's just gonna echo my pain. But what I'm hearing from you is somebody that's actually there to constructively be a support, to listen, to not judge, to not paint false hope because that almost drives more grieving. Yeah, but really just to stamp their ticket. You know what, Amber, I was going to Italy. Yeah, I can go there next month. Yeah, let me come visit Holland with you. That that is. So look at the two ups, the red birds, worlds. Yeah, truly. Just to sit in it. And, you know, I when you talk about grief, like I feel like I just mentioned a few different ways of grieving, you know, like grieving the children I thought I was gonna have, grieving a life I thought I would have with my previous husband, grieving a life I thought I was gonna have with my late husband. There's a lot of different kinds of grief. And so it really just depends on the kind of grief that you have. I know when it comes to my husband, someone really talked a lot about the things they loved about him, and then she was like, I'm so sorry, like you probably don't want to hear how much I'm missing him. And I was like, I would love to hear how much other people miss him because that means he meant something to somebody else. But then when it comes to like grieving the life that I had with my kids, I I do just need people just to sit in that with me. Because if sounds um, you know, like earlier you had said, like, it doesn't mean that I don't love my kids or that I don't want the children that I have, but it is a grieving process to grieve the life that you thought your children were going to have. I was joking with Brad earlier before we started the episode. You your handle on Instagram, is that the right term, handle, or your tag? No, you it's it's enjoying Holland. It's enjoying Holland. Yes. And I I was like, you almost need the the dual one of greeting Italy, right? To tell the whole story. Um but there was a there was a post you had on there, and yes, I did kind of go back and stalk your Instagram. Um I think it was actually from a recent podcast you were on with um Rachel Clare, the She Rises. Uh-huh. Um and you had one on there that said, Joy is not a byproduct of circumstance or possessions. Yeah, it is a choice. And a choice is different than an acquiescence, right? It's different than an acceptance. Choice isn't is an affirmative thing. And I wanted to dive into that. If you could talk about what that quote means to you, because I'm I'm just curious about your perspective with it. Yeah, I think um I read this quote one time that also said we are the architects of our own happiness. And I think that if we are just sitting around and waiting for the happy life to happen to us and to come to us, it will never happen. It just won't. It simply won't. And I remember um when I was going through my divorce and my kids were little, um, I had this moment um where it was it, I was still in that stage where it was just such a struggle for me. And I was like, where is my joy? And then my Jude at the time, who was four, we kind of started this little dance party in the kitchen, and then I was holding my four-month-old, and so I'm holding them both, and I had this moment where I was like, actually, today's a good day, and I'm really, really happy in this moment. And I just had this thought of like, I am the only one that can give my kids a happy mom who loves life. And from then on, like that has been my goal. Because if you look at life circumstances, whether it's my own and my my life sounds rough, I don't feel like it's any more rough than anyone else's because we all go through hard times. But if you look at the hard things you've been through, um they will always depress you and they will always make you feel down and you can always feel sad about them. But I just think that um joy is such a better feeling to have than to constantly look at the negative, you know, and to just um which sounds like toxic positivity, and that's never what I want it to lead to. It's such a fine line for me because I never want to I never want to diminish those real feelings of the depression and the mental health things that people go through, or like the no, but this is really, really hard. And how do I get out of this feeling? But I just when it comes to joy, I just I choose to feel that happiness and create my own in my day. And I think that's the difference, right? The choice, that word choice is what changes it from being toxic positivity to being, I'm here of my own volition. I am here of my own volition. And there are some days where like my I tried to choose happiness today, and it was such a hard day that the only happiness I'm feeling, like the choice, is like I put my kids to bed, and that is happy feeling for me. My Danish cookie. Or my Danish cookie, which you can't get at Trader Joe's. You know, where it is such a small where I'm like the only choice I had today was like got myself a soda on the way home or whatever, because it was such a hard day. But I just um I just I I make it a choice. I make it a choice every single day to just find something. That's what that's what I was gonna double check. It wasn't just one time that you had to choose. Oh no, I have to choose it every day. And there are some days where it's multiple, multiple times that day. And it's hard. I mean, that's hard. You have to think about it all the time and you have to get through it. And it's just like, yeah, that's that's in well, and I'm curious. As you're talking, I'm thinking about your children. Yes. As they're as you know, you're grieving, you're kind of going through the process, going through a divorce and a death, those are two huge traumatic experiences. Yeah. And you're navigating that with four kids. Yeah. How did you navigate or work with your kids during these trauma events that they've experienced? And then the other part of it, they're autistic. Yeah. And then you have another one's down syndrome. So like they kind of aware, they kind of don't. Like, how did you navigate that? You know, um, my other two were not diagnosed until about six months ago and a year ago, and I'm four months, I'm four years out from his death. And so I think in the beginning, um, well, first of all, I'll say this. Like when he first died, um, I had to come to the realization that every every person grieves differently, and children grieve so differently. So I have four kids and I realize that all five of us grieve differently from each other. And a big big thing I had to come to a realization was that there is no um, there is no guidebook, there is no outline as far as like the right way to grieve, as long as you're not doing anything immoral and ethical. Unhealthy for yourself. You know, everyone is on their own timeline. Everyone is in their own process. Some people want to talk about it. Some people don't even bring it up, but I want to talk about it. You know, so I had to figure out which children needed to talk about it. My daughter needs to talk about it. My daughter was three. So she, when playing with her dolls, one of her dolls always ended up dying. And I just had to roll with that, you know, and we talked a lot about death and the dying process for her. She had to understand it. And then my son, who was seven at the time, he did not want to talk about it at all. So I just really had to understand that I grieved differently from them, children grieve differently from adults. We all grieve differently from each other, and none of it was wrong. It was all okay. So I just really had to hold space for um whatever came. And then you add the autism factor on top of it. And um there is a lot of how much do they understand? How much are they really taking in? And I think for a long time I pushed away those feelings of like, are they neurodivergent? Are they on the spectrum? Because grief will make you do such wild things. For a while with my daughter specifically, I was like, she is just grieving her dad. She's she was a she was a daddy's girl through and through. She's our only daughter. So she was a big daddy's girl. And so I was, I honestly thought, you are just grieving your dad. So like the outbursts that she would have and the meltdowns that she would have, I I always just chalked it up to grief. So it was it was a lot. And I had to give myself that grace when I realized that I needed to have them both assessed and evaluated and diagnosed. I I beat myself up for a while thinking I should have had them evaluated sooner. And you're going through a lot. I was. So my son was nine when by the time he was, and he's 11 now. And so I really I beat myself about it a lot. And I had to give myself grace of just I was going through a lot, and they were going through a lot. And so I think there's a lot of parents out there that probably think the same thing. You know, if they're even if they're not going through a similar situation, they think I should have done it sooner. What could I have done sooner? Well, that's just a byproduct of parenting. We second guess ourselves until the day we die. It's just true. Well, and I always joke around that the first kid, you get it like that's totally a mole again, right? Like the first one, you always screw up your first child, like, I'm sorry, buddy, but we are just trying to figure this out, man. So, you know what's funny? I I'm hearing your story, and I don't know, I think the takeaway, Amber, I'm getting is that um choosing joy is a skill. And and and here's why. I I hear and yes, you you're right. We like you have your story, I have mine, Brad has his. We all have our challenges, and nobody wants to trade stories with anybody else. And you know, one person's grief for a small thing is somebody else's on a major. But but truly your journey has been just incredibly inspiring and it seems challenging, but I think uh seeing who you are and your I don't know, your unwavering ability to just I don't want to say spin the positive. I I'm I'm I'm watching you, Amber. And I wish I wish our listeners could like watch as you say this stuff. You genuinely have chosen this path of happiness. And it would have been so easy for anybody else to just live in wallow in misery right now, to just say, Woe is me. Why is this happening? Why is this not and not even why, but it keeps that's my lot. Again, it's just yeah, and and be in this not never-ending, resentful victim life where they are just in clinically depressed conditions. Right. And and and not to discount to discount those you know mental disorders and conditions, but I think what you've proven is that it is a skill that can be learned and developed, it can be chosen to choose happiness, to choose joy, and not not not to placate or to just overshadow it and pretend you're happy when really you're not, but to actually look at your circumstance and choose wherever you're at. You had the opportunity to hone that skill multiple times over the last four years. Yeah. And if there's something I can impart to our listeners, it's that you can learn to do this. And it takes an intentionality, I think, from what I hear from you. It takes those around you that are willing to be that strength with you to allow you to make that choice. So you have some support, but that if you so choose it, if you really desire it, it doesn't matter your circumstance, you can choose fulfillment in any circumstance. You really can. And a few things, like you said, it's a skill. It it takes effort and intentionality, like you said. And I want to also be clear that um I have to sit in the grief many times. Like it's not like something happens and I let it be for 10 minutes and then I'm like, well, I'm gonna choose joy again today. Like there are times where it is days and weeks. No, it's not a button. It's not where I'm like, I am really feeling it today, or where this new thing came up and I have to sit in it for quite some time. And so I think that for me, sitting in that grief and that like you have to call it for what it is. You have to acknowledge it that this is really, really hard. This is really hard. And then, and then you get to a point, I have to figure out where it sits in my body and how I'm feeling about it. And and is it okay to say that this is hard? And then I'm able to to um to say, you know what, this is hard, but I can also feel joy. You can feel both things at the same time. And I have people in my life that I are very um, I call it my sacred circle, that I have let them into that space and I can turn to in that, in that grief. And I ask them, I'm feeling very griefy, is what I call it. Like, will you will you sit with me in this? You know, I have I have family, I have sisters, I have very close friends where they know that when I message them, like I'm feeling in that low mud is what we call it. And I need, I need to for them to come sit in this with me. And then, and then I just um and when I it's not a button where I automatically everything flips at once, it's one thing at a time to c climb out of that. So I just want to make that clear that choosing joy does not mean that you will never feel that sorrow. Well, and we talk about that throughout the podcast that as parents, we need to take care of ourselves first before we can go out there and help our children and others, right? And so as we're griefing or griefy, so we're in those griefy moments. What what are things that you do that like grounds you to where you're like, okay, I pull this lever, or I like what like what do you hold on to during those low moments that isn't like, hey, I'm gonna go out and run? Yeah or hey, I'm gonna pull out this book, or hey, I'm gonna go, you know, go get a soda. And I know that's probably multiple things given the situation, but what are like what keeps you grounded as you go through these griefy moments? Therapy has been huge for me. I started therapy about six months before my husband died, and so I've been going for four and a half years, and there have been times throughout the years where I'm like, I'm feeling pretty good. Like, do I should I stop therapy? And then something else always comes up or or a part of me shows itself. And so she helps. Um, thankfully, my therapist is very familiar with neurodivergent children, and so she definitely just is a soundboard for me. But um, I do, as far as like my self-care, I do love to exercise. That is one thing that I try um to prioritize. And I try to set an example for my kids. Like they um, I'll invite them into that. Like, do you want to come work out with me? Or they'll ride their scooters next to me while I run. And I try to show them like how good it is for not my only my physical health, but my mental health as well. You know, like I'll let them know like I it's very important for me to do this. And um, they love working out with me. I can't always say it's the most effective when they join, but we do it together as a family. Come on, buddy. No, truly, I'm like, I end up holding the scooter on the way home. If you want to make any activity in life more challenging, add kids. I just end up just throwing them on my back and we just run. And it's so true. It's so true. Um But I should, I should, I should caption that and also more rewarding. It is for as much as it's a challenge, it is one of the most fulfilling things ever. It is, it really is. And my 11-year-old has come into me recently and he said, I I I want to join you more in your workouts because I, you know, I want to live a healthy life. And I was like, that is what I was hoping, the example I'm hoping to set. Um, you know, is that it's so much for your lifestyle. And then I think um, like I had said before, I have those sacred people that I reach out to that I really, really um it's it's a very inner part of me that I don't let a lot of people into, but I think that they know that they're part of that sacred circle and they just have seen me at like my lowest lows. So even just a little text of like, I'm feeling very griefy right now, um, you know, it just I let people into that into that world. I because it's it's I'm a single mom and I'm home with my four kids who um are very sweet, but they're not very aware of how do you explain neurodivergent children? Like they're not always aware of how hard things can be for mom, which is children in general. Trust me, we get that. They're very in tune with what they have got going on. And so I think just inviting other people into there's not a lot of people that can easily pick up on that, I think is what I'm trying to say. Like into when I'm at home and I'm having a grief day. Well, you call it what your griefy circle? Yeah, like my sacred circle is what I call it. Yeah, circle. Yeah, like I let them into that. I've like I'm having a grief moment. And it just let it just let somebody know, you know, like please see me in this moment. And then I'm a big, I'm a big cheesecake girl. I door dash myself cheesecake a lot. So I get myself the sweet treat often. That's awesome. And and that's something, you know, and there's I'm sure there's a number of things, but two of the big ones I picked out just from a lot of your posts were your dance parties and your swings, right? Uh-huh. And now it's cheesecake and sacred circle. What I'm hearing is there's intentionality to bringing joy into your life. Yes. It's choosing it as well as making it happen. Yes. And that that's a choice as well. As much as we choose the emotion side, you're creating the environment. Holland could be a dump for all we care, but it doesn't matter, it's because it has cheesecake swings and sacred circle and dance parties. So I love that so much. It just made me so happy. And that's that's that's a huge takeaway because that's something that I have I can have control over, right? I can't necessarily have control over my circumstance or environment. Yes. Like going to Holland wasn't the choice. Right. And and I think it's less even about choosing Holland. Just let everybody know, we love Holland guys. But but I think this is a key distinction because I've been struggling with this, with you know, people say it's great, but I'm always, Amber, I'm always gonna grieve not getting to Italy. Like on a really selfish level, I have to eat gluten-free, and I will always grieve donuts. And I know that's super shallow compared to everything we're talking about. It's true. It's true. But the second level of what you're saying, it's it's not so much about looking around and saying, I choose where I've been placed. You are put where you are. Yes. But you have chosen to make that place a joyful and a fulfilling place, regardless of what the environment was. Yes. That I think is that secret sauce is you found ways to create joy. And that's huge. Thank you. Well, and tell us some like so again, you've gone on a lot of podcasts, you've been on a lot of national and local platforms. Tell us some feedback that you're getting from the from the audience that you hear with your story and the impact you make in the community. Some feedback? I think it's all good. I don't know. If it's not, I think she would make it good. It didn't matter. I guess I was looking for it. Well, they were probably right. If I could do this better, you know, I could sling mud at her and she'd say, look at these wonderful mud pies that we just make it. I would. Let's make art with this. I love mud art. No, and I'm gonna come back to that as a skill. Like if if if I'm learned nothing else today, is that joy can be something you can learn how to do. Yeah. Instead of waiting for it to happen, you can take it by the horns. And that doesn't mean every day you have to pretend there's no sadness. You're not saying that. Right. But you are intentionally making sure that joy is a part of your experience. And I think that's the big feedback that I have heard is people having that recognition of like, oh, I have to choose it. And like for me, it is cheesecake and swings and dance parties and sacred circle. And that's not for everybody. People are like, I'd rather poke needles in my eye than have a kitchen dance party. And that's fine. That's fine. So I just try to tell them, like, do what speaks to you, you know, like what is it that makes you truly happy? And I usually, it's for me to get to that point of like, but what really does make me happy is I have to strip, strip away everything else, including my children, and think like I am a woman first. So what for me as a woman makes me happy? And then I try to invite my children into that and and different things like that. Because I think often we think, well, what makes me happy? And you know, you're always like, well, my family and my kids and everything. And you're like, well, that's great. But like as a person, you individually, what makes you happy? So once I tell people to just strip it all away and find things that make you happy and bring you joy, that's when I realized I do love swinging on my the swing I put up for my kids, the tree swing in the front yard. I really enjoy it. I'm just like, wait a second, it's for me. Yeah, like I will go for runs, and when I get back from my run, I'll sit in it for a little bit. And that's when I kind of decompress my body and my mind is also I'll sit in the tree swing for a little bit. So out of the way, dude. That's so true. I'm like, wait, let's have let's let's let mom have a turn now. You can push me on it to see how you can get me. That's awesome. So what's next? Like, what do you have planned next that you're that you're working on and that you're doing um to kind of continue this story to our to like your audience and people around you? I mean, I I've always thought I have big plans. Um, you know, I'd love to get a website going. I I have a lot of different things in my mind. Um I my kids have always come first for me, though. And I think the last year has been a struggle with two of them being newly diagnosed autism. Um, my youngest will go to kindergarten next year. So it's gonna be a weird feeling for me having this is the first time in 15 years that I'll have all of my kids in school that I won't have a child at home with me. So it's weird taking the last one to kindergarten. So I took my last one and I had like I had my phone out and I was just videotaping it. And then all of a sudden I hear the teachers like, okay, all the parents need to go. You can go home now. And then I looked around, I was the only parent. And I'm like, oh, oh, you're talking about me. My bad, my mouth. Yeah, so that's a really weird thought. Um, you know, having all my kids in school, but I am excited for what it brings. And I know a lot of people ask me, like, what's your plan? And I have always said, I just hope that whatever I'm doing, I'm happy doing it. I kind of why does that not surprise me? I don't know. Right. Um, I know I it's hard for me to make plans sometimes um because life is just every plan that I feel like I've I've made life has come in and been like, nope, you're not doing that. You know, we're gonna pivot and have things go a different way. And so I will truly just see wherever life takes me in the opportunities that come. And I just hope that whatever I am doing, I'm happy. I'm happy doing it. And that my kids are happy doing it as well. Well, wonderful, Amber. Well, we are so grateful that you're here today to share your story, share some wonderful insights. Uh it's an amazing show, Nathan. Yeah, no, I like I I went into the show with one idea thinking we were going to be talking about this grieving process, and it totally flipped because what you've really outlined is the happiness choosing process. Yeah. And it's it's an intentional process, it is a byproduct of things that you create for yourself mixed with grief and a part of that, so that it's genuine joy and not superficial or toxic as you called it. Um, and that that can be something that can be learned, you can get better at it, and you are the byproduct, Amber, of having done it well. I don't think there's any spin life can throw at you that you won't be able to handle. And that doesn't mean that doesn't mean that they're gonna be enjoyable in the moment. Right. But um but I think we would call that in the neurodiverse world that's resiliency. Um, and that's what we want for all of our kids. So if nothing else, I can already tell you as a mom, your kids are in good hands because resiliency, they're just getting modeled every single day. Thank you. Thank you very much. Well, and and for our audience, we're gonna put your insta posts on our website uh in our feed. So, families, you can go to Amber's uh Insta account if you're looking for inspiration. She's there that that will do it, and I know she'll have a lot more content coming forward. Hopefully, yeah. Excited to see that, especially the swing. A lot more the swing. I want to see you like, get out of my way, kids. It's my moment. So, anyways, thank you for being here, Amber. Thank you so much for having me. And for everyone listening, thank you for making this part of your day. Please don't forget to subscribe so you never miss a conversation that inspires connection. Want to give a big shout out to our producer, Jesse Palmer, and our wonderful marketing director, Alan Davis. Until next time, let's do some good.