Mad Mel’s Mic
Hi there! Welcome to Mad Mel’s Mic!! Thanks for joining me. My name is Melissa and this is a podcast all about me! About my life. About life with PTSD. About my life with a husband, kids and friends. Thanks for tuning in.
Mad Mel’s Mic
Sisterhood, Unmasked
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Season 1 Episode 30:
What happens when the person who knows your childhood best sits down to tell the truth about your hardest years? We invited my older sister, Emma, to unpack what PTSD looked like from her side of the glass—how she noticed the shift from high-energy extrovert to survival mode, why asking direct questions saved us from guesswork, and the moment she knew the fog was finally lifting.
We trace the arc from a protected upbringing to a too-young entry into policing, the slow burn of masking, and the jolt that came when an ankle injury removed my last coping tool. Emma shares how she learned the language of support—snakes and ladders for daily setbacks, the SUDS scale for simple check-ins—and how boundaries made space for both safety and mutuality. We get into the awkward-but-necessary conversations about suicide risk, the discipline of doing nothing when nothing helps, and the balance between not coddling and not closing the door.
There’s a turning point you can hear: transcranial magnetic stimulation. We talk about TMS not as a miracle but as a measurable shift—humor returning, energy rising, perspective widening. Along the way, we challenge stigma, reflect on the realities of first responder mental health, and offer practical, human tools families can use right now. It’s messy, funny, and deeply hopeful—more weather report than fairy tale: mostly sunny with a chance of thunder.
If this conversation resonates, share it with someone who needs language for what they’re living. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what’s a small win you’re claiming today?
🎵 Song of the Week: I Take It Back by Missy Higgins
💭 Thought of the Day:
"Even the darkest clouds carry a silver lining."
And as Proverbs 29:18 reminds us:
“Where there is no vision, the people perish.”
Hope—whether it’s a big dream or a small win—keeps us moving forward.
Welcome, Sister on the Mic
SPEAKER_01Hey there, welcome to Mad Male's Mic. Thanks for joining me. My name is Melissa, and this is the podcast all about me. About my life. About my life with PTSD. About my life with the husband and kids and friends and everything in between. Thanks for tuning in.
SPEAKER_02Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode of Mad Mills Mike, episode 30. Today's episode is a little bit different and very special. I've got my sister here with me, and we're going to have an honest chat about what's really what it's been like growing up together, how my PTSD has affected her, and how we've both changed through it all. Expect some laughs, maybe some tears from Emma, and definitely some truth. All right, Sister, ready for this? Do you want to just say your name? Ready, ready, ready for that?
SPEAKER_03Hello, hello. I'm Emma, and I am Melissa's older sister. And I am the middle child. So there's older brother Matthew than me and then Melissa. So I'm happy to be here. Thanks, Liz. One of the things I should say is that Mad Mel's mic, it doesn't ring so well or true for me because I know Melissa not as Mel, but as Liz. So I will be referring to Mel as you know and love her, as Liz. So same person.
SPEAKER_02All the family and even church growing up has always been Liz, but then school and work and stuff, it's been Mel. And I just introduced myself as Mel now anyway. So but before we get started, I just want to say Emma just went through the siblings, but I'm the youngest and I'm most definitely the favourite. So although I think we fight over that that spot. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well Melissa's the she's she's the youngest, but she can beat me up in a heartbeat. So if there's ever really a contest, Melissa would 100% win, mainly because I'd be running away because I know I just wouldn't even turn up to the battle. Like that's really good.
Song of the Week: Missy Higgins
SPEAKER_02All right, Melissa as we normally do. And just so you know, Emma doesn't know any of these questions like everybody else I've interviewed so far. So this is roaring. We'll see how we go. But let's start with the song of the week. And as I do with all my guests, the they are in charge. So what is it this week, Emma?
SPEAKER_03So the song of the week that I have chosen is I Take It Back, which is a song by Missy Higgins. And I really like some particular lyrics in it which talk about my light, my dark, my fire, my spark, my story, my vision, my choices, my decisions. Count the minutes, count the hours. There's just, you know, some beautiful phrasing in this song, but that particular kind of stanza just is really lovely. You know, count the minutes, count the hours about day-to-day life. And, you know, we've all got a story light, dark, fire, spark.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Nice. Well, let's see. I am a fan of Missy Higgins. I saw her in concert last week. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's funny. I also have seen her in concert too. I like her. Right. Well, let's have a quick listen now.
unknownDo that attack.
Childhood Dynamics and Temperaments
SPEAKER_02All right. That was a lovely song, Emma. Thank you. You're welcome. Well, let's get into some of the questions. And the first couple of questions aren't necessarily to do anything about my broken head, but just about life growing up and stuff like that. So I know there's quite a big age gift difference between us. You're five years older. But what's your earliest memory of us growing up together?
SPEAKER_03My earliest memory of Liz is really more just a sense of who she is and what she loves. And as you know from your own experience of her, she's been vibrant and big-hearted and enthusiastic and a confident leader and very gregarious, like a 100% extrovert from you know, from a child. That's very much a temperament thing, I believe. An earliest memory is that I remember we grew up, we grew up on Acreage and our clothes. We only had one next-door neighbor. And I remember Liz would spend lots of time hanging out with the kids, next door neighbours' kids, and that used to baffle me. I was baffled by, you know, my sister kid wanting to hang out with other people's kids, like in particular itty-bitty babies. I mean, like Melissa at the time was probably eight or nine or something like that. I'm like, I couldn't think of anything worse than to hang out with other people's babies. And so I remember that she had a spark, but there was like a gravity though that kind of took her to other people. It didn't matter who they were or what they were, there were always sort of people in Melissa's life. It's a lot like a lot like, yeah, like a so my son Ashton um calls my so our dad um a giga extrovert. And I like that. I think that's a giga extrovert. What's like an extro giga as in like the tech economy, like a gigabyte, like a huge amount of like a giga, yeah, like a huge extrovert. Yeah. Um and yeah, Liz is definitely a huge extrovert, which is probably in comparison to me, like I can hold my own, but yeah, next to Liz, yeah. I don't even count in terms of the the dynamics and the vibrance phase. And yeah. And that was that was like Melissa growing up. Melissa was like you haven't changed Lis in terms of your vivacity by my giga extrovert. Yep, yep, that's it. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I'm sure I'm making up words here, but that's what I just my super skill. Yeah. All right.
SPEAKER_02So if you had to describe me as a kid in just a few words, what would they be? And I think you probably already touched on that a little bit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. One of the things that I did mention is that Melissa was always active. Trampolining, tumbling, the outside trampoline got her bollocking all the time, and and all the rest of it. And one of the things that characterizes Melissa then and now is her coordination. And and this is sort of this is through my lens compared to me. Melissa's laughing, and you should be. I am not coordinated, that is certainly no secret. And I often felt very jealous of Melissa and my brother Matthew too, of their coordination skills and their ability to do things well and to not drop things and to sing in tune. So Melissa's musical, vibrant, and coordinated, and very sporty and athletic. It's a good summary, thank you.
SPEAKER_00And and competitive. Oh I am yeah, even from a young age, competitive. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm very competitive, and I think that's not like the posty bike crash.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, look at that. 100%. It wouldn't matter what the competition is, there's an element of win. Oh, 100%.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Who can make the best cookies?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, who's the favourite daughter? Oh, 100%, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And the competition is, you know, rages on. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What's a story from our childhood that makes you still laugh whenever you think about it? But they're not in your notes, are they, these questions?
SPEAKER_03Oh no, that makes me laugh.
SPEAKER_02Because I annoyed you. Because I do and always have loved music. I remember singing my guts out in the shower. And back then there was no like Alexa's in my bathroom like I have now, but Emma would always just crack the shit because she'd be trying to study and I'm built on her. But that was sort of one that I could think of.
Humor, Competition, and Family Lore
SPEAKER_03But well, there's one story I think I do remember, but it's probably more of an indictment on me than anything else. I think because you did think I was smart. That was my kind of label. I somehow volunteered, or you volunteered me to help you with your police academy application. And apparently it was terrible. And that was feedback that was quite unwelcome and quite shocking for me. So that's one of that's a funny story because clearly I failed my sister. Um, I don't know how. You still got into the police force. So I don't know whether you rewrote the application, but I knew you were not a happy chappy with me for my efforts. Um no, and one actually, there is a funny story, and which is something that sort of leads to or speaks about Melissa's sort of confidence and her ability to choose for herself her decisions and her her strong-willed nature. And I was very jealous of that because at each Christmas and birthdays, our delightful and sugary auntie Jenica would buy us the most hideous clothes. And this is back during the landline days, where mum who had just given up on buying Melissa clothes at that point because none of them met your standards, Liz. And so I remember you calling Jenica and explaining to her that you didn't like this hideous jumper or outfit or whatever it is. And I remember going, wow, that's possible. I'm impressed. So, like Melissa even as a kid just blew my mind uh what she wanted to do. You do or you don't? I don't, no. You don't know. Well, you know, you ask mum. I'm sure she was probably very nervous. Imagine we don't want upset, auntie.
SPEAKER_02Um were we close growing up or did we drive each other crazy more often than not?
SPEAKER_03I actually think neither. I I agree. And I that's not a that's not you know, this is about honest conversations. I think being five years older made a difference, a big difference. And also this you went to a different school some of the time. I so I think we only had one year when I was when Matthew was in year six, I was in year five, and you were in Kinty. So we only had one year of schooling together. And in terms of our closeness growing up, it's not that we weren't close, but we weren't close in age, and you know, different ages, different similarities, um sort of different hobbies and phases of life, of course. And I suppose I was closer to Matthew. We were only a year difference in school years and only 18 months difference in age. And the other thing is that you you you this comes no surprise to you or anyone that you listen, Matthew are probably more similar in terms of personalities, in terms of like being extroverted and outgoing. And so my memory of growing up is not that we were close, but often it was you and Matthew, either tight or you guys would kind of have a bit of an argument and then you were not tight. And I was kind of just a little bit in the the background, probably as much by choice as by anything else, because there was a lot of action in the family, you know, it's a high charge. There's a lot of you know, we're a big family, yeah. There's a lot of personality.
SPEAKER_02I look back and think that we're much closer, sort of in our adulthood than in our childhood. And I think that I 100% disagree with it. Sort of it doesn't matter now, but growing up, like, yeah, I think the age difference does make a bit of a difference.
Growing Apart, Growing Closer
SPEAKER_03So and I think I think in terms of our development of a stronger relationship, you had babies first. Yeah, and so when I had mine, you know, I came to you for advice, and you know, we'd have a look at and you would I remember going through, I had this big chunky magazine when I was pregnant, like baby this and baby that, and you're going up, this one's shit, this is shit, you don't need this, you don't need that. And you like like black, like crossed everything. I kind of felt a little bit heartbroken. I'm like, oh really. I don't even remember that either. But like like like it was a very it was a very helpful exercise. What you need is not needed. I mean, like, you know, it's like a whole baby world. There's 90 to 90% of it you don't need. Yeah. So yeah, but I would agree, we're certainly closer now than we when as kids.
SPEAKER_02And that sort of just leads straight into the next question. I think we've sort of half answered it is with cheers, how would you describe how our relationship has changed over the years? I don't know, it's like anything, really, it just evolved.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's evolved. And also because now as adults, we can talk about mum and dad. Yeah. And so that hoops, these are so fun to do. No, but we can no, no, but we can we can have a giggle about how much they talk about the weather and and how long it takes for dad to hang up the phone call and stuff like that. So we've got, you know, like mutual people, and you know, and that's nice. It's nice to do. It's not as if we're talking hard stuff a lot of the time. We're talking a lot about, you know, like day-to-day giggles and frustrations and you know, and just sort of laughing and kind of you know, expressing frustrations at some of the things that happen on a day-to-day basis, our kids included. You know, really no one's off limits. And we have conversations about anything and everything. Yeah, sometimes probably my more recent conversations um have probably been a little bit too much information for this, but we won't definitely go into that. Next question.
SPEAKER_02You just mentioning that. Anyway, do you remember the moment you realized something was very different that I wasn't myself anymore? As a specific point in time, no. Yeah, and I think it's very difficult because for me my PTSD wasn't a gradual decline, it was one minute I didn't have it the next minute, I sort of did. So yeah, there was sort of no, I was just good and then I wasn't.
The Shift: From Masking to Hospital
SPEAKER_03Yes, yeah. I I think probably the most obvious sort of recognition that something was not right for you was sort of how you turned up to sort of like control our family holidays. Yeah. And what you had the capacity to do and not do, and you know, as an active extrovert paddle boarding and getting into everything, a lot of your energy was drained and the energy was focused on just getting up, surviving, yeah, everything, you know, doing, you know, doing your basic stuff to get through the day. So it was obvious as you know, from an energy level perspective, in terms of, you know, something's not right. You know, but you know, but we also kind of it's hard to sort of identify and even articulate it a lot of the time because you know, life is busy, we all get drained, and you know, so it was hard to tell whether this was you just being exhausted from, you know, just life in general or whether this was something a little bit more prolonged. So it's but then when it became obvious when it was, when you know, being hospitalized, I kind of brought it all out. And I think after your first hospitalization, in many ways, it seemed like you were probably better in adverted commas before you went into hospital. And then the the layers started to come off and the masks started to come off, and the the very sad reality as to the extent of your PTSD and your suffering and your nightmares and your insomnia and all of those and the anxiety really started to sort of become evident. And that was, you know, clearly awful for you. And you know, as you know, your sister, it was awful to see you kind of unraveling. Happy that you were unraveling in a safe place where often you've got to kind of get through the worst before you get to the, you know, you've got to, you know, essentially walk through the dark tunnel to sort of get to the light. But I think, you know, your first hospitalization for me was probably the hardest.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because it was the unknown and it was, I think it was the was that the first time, Liz, I know I should be asking the questions, but was that the first time really somebody repeatedly looked you in the eye and said, You have a workplace injury, you have PTSD. Yeah. Is this are you going to start unmasking your your cover-up behaviors? Was that was the first time that you got challenged on it?
SPEAKER_02That's sort of what it was. So, like for the first, because my head broke February 21 and my first hospitalization, it wasn't until June 23. And I think I just spent that whole time masking myself more than anybody else. Like it wasn't a conscious thing that I was doing. And then that first hospital stay, it was like, oh shit, you know what? Like, it's okay to be vulnerable, it's okay to take these masks off. And then that's when I really did get worse, and then that's when I started TMS, and then going from there. So, yeah, that was and it all came down to me doing my ankle that in the beginning of the second.
SPEAKER_03That was kind of in many ways the straw that broke the camel's back. You had your technical, you had the technical diagnosis, as you said, you know what, February 2021, but the full PDSD recognition probably didn't come until your first, until your your ankle.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because when you went back to attitude we've got exercise was gone. Correct. Yeah, yeah. So I couldn't, yeah. And I remember, and I think I've mentioned it before in these episodes that I remember laying on the ground out on the netball court, and somebody goes, like, there's a reason why this is happening. And I remember going, fuck that, like this is ridiculous. I shouldn't have to do my ankle. But then in hindsight, it's like, you know what, that's exactly what it was meant to do. Like I was meant to do my ankle so I could focus on my head because been shit that my ankle's so bad. But look, it is what it is. I'm better mentally for it now.
SPEAKER_03And you're probably doing exercise in a healthier way than you were doing before because of the competitive part of you, which is a great thing naturally, but then you extended that as a coping mechanism to make sense. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's good. What was it like for you watching me go through PTSD from the outside looking in?
Learning PTSD: Snakes, Ladders, and SUDS
SPEAKER_03Oh, well, I've already kind of touched on some of it. I think sort of from the time of the sort of the official diagnosis until your first hospital stay, I actually didn't know a lot about PTSD and and things like that. So uh it was a learning curve. And like for me personally, I tried to learn as much as I could because I didn't know much about it, and I certainly didn't want to add insults or injury by being a dumbass that says dumb things. And I will say dumb things from time to time, and I think you know, Liz understands that we all say dumb things from time to time and that the intention is well-meaning, well-meaning intentions. However, I really didn't want to be, you know, you know, always sort of stuffing up and stuff like that. So I made an effort to kind of learn a little bit, and I tried my best to keep mum and dad and informed as to some of the things I was learning about, so that we could sort of give Liz the space that she needed without the Spanish Inquisition. One of the strengths about our family is that we know each other's business, and that is wonderful. However, it's also not wonderful when there is an uphill and downdale, like daily kind of like millions of questions and stuff like that. How I really live. Yeah, yeah, and and so part of part of Melissa's journey was also learning about how I journey along with that so that I can check in, say hello, and know that she's there, I'm there for her, and vice versa. And also not Molly called Melissa as well. You know, I still have conversations I want to have with her and advice and things like that. So it was also going, you know, it's still a mutual relationship. Yeah, it's different. Yeah, there's, you know, an obvious amount of um, you know, care in terms of where she's at, you know, mentally, particularly when she was more vulnerable in the earlier stages of diagnosis and treatment and things like that. But you know, you know, I also really didn't want to shut her out of my life and my problems and my conversations because that's who I want to tell. And I want I don't want her to be excluded because I think that's a crap thing to do to identify somebody as having PTSD and then go, oh, she might be able to cope with that. And so I didn't think that was cool. So it was like from my perspective, it's a balance, it's not overburdening, and but at the same time making sure that yeah, we're not molecoddling you in a way that is not beneficial for for you or for the relationship or and stuff like that. One of the things, and I'm probably digressing there, that was really helpful for me was when the psychiatrist at the St. John of God Hospital gave an online training session to all the friends, family, and supporters of a person who had been in hospital with PTSD. And two things I learned from that, and I know Lys has spoken about it in the earlier podcast, but they the psychiatrist spoke about PTSD being like a game of snakes and ladders. So sometimes a good day is just plodding along and playing the game, and then you know, some days there's wins, you know, you might get a ladder. A lot of the days you get a snake, and you're back to you, back to the beginning again. You're back to the it's a really, really great analogy. And I think it's actually an analogy that's not only applicable to PTSD, but it was a specific life in general, 100%. And you know, playing the game is just turning up. And I think PTSD just makes turning up so much more bloody hard. And the other thing that was cool that um the psychiatrist said was using the sud scale for you know, to measure, you know, how a person is feeling. And so, you know, I looked at that and printed it out, and you know, from time to time, if I was worried, sorry, if I was worried about this instead of asking her meaning questions, I'm like, you know, what's your number today? I don't do that so much anymore, but there was a time where we we kind of played the numbers game, the suds, the subjective unit of distress kind of numbers. And I remember one time you, your suds number was like an eight, and you wanted to go to basketball. And I'm like, I think I wrote in a message I've gone, don't go. You're eight, you're gonna get arrested because you're gonna go cause a fight with somebody. Don't do it. So don't, you know, so she was already like number eight. No, you didn't. Oh, good. And this is. Oh, you didn't, you didn't go, and that's the beauty of you know, like you still would have you still could have done whatever you want, and that's fine. But I think you had had enough training at that point in the hospital because they kind of drill it into you. What's your suns go? What's your side's go? What's your son's number? And so I'm like, you can't go to basketball, you're gonna beat someone up. That's gonna be bad news. You're not only will you, you know, have wonderful experience of being in a side court, yeah, maybe fighting up to the local court as well. Don't do it, you know. Um so yeah, it's been, yeah, it's there's been, but having said all of this, like like you all know Liz, like she has an awesome sense of humor, and I don't think I mentioned that when I was speaking about what she was like as a kid. That hasn't changed. She's always had an excellent sense of humor. And you know, the very fact that I can still have an honest conversation with her about not going to basketball and beating people up in the midst of, you know, like a high anxiety feeling, you know, shows her capacity, A, to trust me, and B to be up to hear stuff and then still have a really good sense of humour about it as well. Yeah. So goodness to you, List to you.
SPEAKER_02Um, were there times where you felt helpless like you didn't know what to say or do?
Boundaries, Safety, and Hard Questions
SPEAKER_03Yeah, 100%. And you know, sometimes when I'm typing messages or calling the default, oh, how are you? And then we have the good. I'm like, okay, good. And so it's it's kind of like the early part of the conversation, which is often very kind of automated or kind of prescriptive, or kind of sort of pre-programmed to give answers. But I'm like, oh, I'm asking how she is. That's a very ambiguous question. That's not a helpful question. And then I kind of have the sort of the internal drama monologue going on in my head, going, uh. But there were times where I felt that I could do nothing a lot, a lot of the time, and I think that's often a standard feeling. And I also think that sometimes nothing is an appropriate response because sometimes there really is nothing. Melissa has resources. You must you've got skills and knowledge and access to people who can help you, and not to say that I'm not there and I don't want to help you, that's not at all. So he won't not say, team, don't hear what I'm not saying. But at the same time, there's an element of we need to trust that Melissa has it in hand, that she knows what's best for her. And if she's if she needs to bunker down and lay low and you know, eat malt teasers and watch what's that yachting show you like? Oh below deck, yeah. Below deck, then that's what she needs. She just you know needs low deck and peppermint chocolate, which is broken nicely because you know once it gets hard. You can't spill the peppermint liquid everywhere. Yeah, yeah, that's a major offense. Yeah, so there there are times where you know doing nothing is hard, hard for me on the outside, and also because we live three and a half hours away. It's not as if I can, you know, just sort of pop on over, yeah, and just have a you know, a sneaky check-in and things like that. Um, so yeah, it has been hard. One of the conversations, or maybe a couple of times, and then this probably need to put a disclaimer in, is there were times where you were really low, and I would ask you whether you had plans to die, any suicide plans, and then they're never fun conversations, but you know, we get them out of written. So important to have them so that there's no confusion. So Liz is safe, and then I'm not going, Oh, I wonder what she's gonna do.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So it's obviously for your safety, but having those conversations give answers and clarity as to what next steps need to be. Do we need to move to panic mode or do we not need to move to panic mode and we move to sort of care and check-in mode?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's important to ask those questions. And if you ask the questions about suicide, it's not putting the idea in the person's head because the idea is either there or it's not. But I think it's just about getting on the same page of knowing, okay, where am I up to or where is the other person up to and and going from there. Just one last little question in this section is did you ever get frustrated with me or the situation? No, not really. That was my answer. Okay, so important question. I don't know the answer to this. Who's the most stubborn sister?
SPEAKER_03That's a rhetorical question, Liz.
SPEAKER_06I know the answer is it's me.
Work, Policing, and Invisible Injuries
SPEAKER_02It is, it is, it is so what's one of my habits or sayings that crack you up or drive you mad?
SPEAKER_03Oh, one of your habits, it doesn't necessarily drive me mad. I find it convenient, actually, is that you don't like anyone else to drive. And I think that is um, you know, that is your preference. You are a good driver, you're a very skilled driver, and you drive like you're a competent driver, but like you go through roundabouts like fast and stuff like that. So I find it exciting and exhilarating and a little bit nerve-wracking at the same time. What was the other part of the question? Something that I find annoying or something?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, just habits or sayings. Habits or sayings. Um back you up or driving. No. None that comes from my is my vaping, and I know you've got a nice story for that.
SPEAKER_03I do. So as a non-vapor, non-smoker human, I just want to actually remember. Um I do enjoy a bit of a giggle and vape when I go visit Liz in hospital. Uh, and it is totally hilarious because she's got the vape and she gives me instructions about how to inhale and exhale because it doesn't matter how often I try, I'm still terrible. Do it, and yeah, I'm practicing on a straw. Yeah, so and and so I go to a psych hospital to go visit Liz and then get laughed at by her and some of the other patients, and I try and vape, and then I kind of cough my guts up, and then I go, oh, this is awful, but it's really, really funny. Yeah, I know, I know. I kind of feel like if I were, you know, if I were in a psych hospital with um, then I would probably take out baby because there's really not so many other fun activities to do there, rather. No, it's very social. Like there's really not, and like not that I'm, you know, I won't, I'm not planning to, but having said that, I do recognize that they're they're not real exciting places and that you know, keep Keeping busy with your hands and and stuff like that is a good thing to do. So I I I do get it. So I yeah, so I don't know whether Lisa you have any comments about my skills. Or there's zero skill. There's zero skills, yeah. I know. I like really getting that person.
SPEAKER_02All right, this is a fun one. If our relationship was a weather forecast, thanks, mum and dad, what would it be? Mostly sunny with a chance of thunder.
SPEAKER_03Well, I've just watched cloudy with a chance of meatballs the other day. So it would probably be like that. A cloudy with, you know, there'd be clouds and sun, and there'd be hamburgers and peppermint chocolates and and maltesas coming out of the sky. There'd be definitely food in our in our weather forecast.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think the chance of meatballs is a very good thing. Right. When things were at their hardest for me, what kept you grounded?
SPEAKER_03What kept me grounded was knowing that you had Carl and the kids, and you had local friends and good local friends.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And that was really reassuring because there were eyes on you. Yeah. So I think it would have been a totally different cattle of fish if you were isolated or you weren't connecting or you were disconnected from family and friends locally, then that would have been yeah, I probably would have needed to sort of change how I responded or didn't respond, or how I responded, because I would have felt that there were there was a gap. And the other thing that is kind of helped me, what was the question again?
SPEAKER_02Helped me when things were at their hardest for me, what kept you grounded?
Stigma, Language, and What Changed
SPEAKER_03Yeah, one of the other things that kept me grounded was knowing that you were connected with a good GP and a good GP who was a good advocate for you to the insurance company and you know was referring you to the right places. And so that was sort of in the earlier days, and then knowing that once you were admitted after your, you know, for the first time, you were then connected with a good psychiatrist, and and then that you were getting the care that you need, and that you could you were learning strategies in the hospital setting and that you could reach out to people. And the other thing is that what kept me grounded was also knowing that, knowing you, knowing that you have a life to live, knowing that even on your darkest days, and there were dark days, that there is a hope in you, a resilience in you, an ongoing sense of you know, commitment to life and your kids and to Carl and to others and to friendship, and you know, an ongoing vigor in you just to do better. And that's the part of the competitive resilience of your character anyway. Stubbornness, yeah. And you know, and I think actually that is reassuring in a way. Yeah, it certainly has its, you know, it it can cut both ways, but certainly from a helpful perspective, it kept you looking at the bigger picture to go, okay, well, this is shit today. Um, but it may not always be like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, it's it's certainly been a journey. And I think my stubbornness has saved me a fair few times. But look, we will take my stubbornness as a positive in this circumstance.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, yeah, and certainly like most attributes, there's you know, the lights and the darks to to it. But 100%, I think your your stubborn commitment to to life and and your children and to your husband and to family and just to you know keep on keeping on. And even your work commitment, I think like my view of your PTSD is because you're a a stubborn and excellent cop, yeah. Who for time and time and time and time again over years and years and years and years, you showed up when it was hard. Yeah. And you kept showing up and you kept showing up and you kept showing up.
SPEAKER_02It's funny though, because showing up was never hard when I was working. Like it never it never got to the point where it was like, oh, this like work's become a drag. Like there were don't get it wrong, there were times that it's like, oh, I can't be bothered going, but it's not that I didn't enjoy it. But just talking about me in the cops, let's just go back and what were your thoughts at of me joining the cops at going to the academy at 18 and a half, like being what you would have been 23, like and then starting work at Mount Druid. How did that make you feel?
What Loved Ones Need to Know
SPEAKER_03Oh, I don't I don't actually remember how I felt, but I'll give a reflective answer. I think it's a really young age to be sending people into the police force, and particularly knowing and it wouldn't necessarily matter what suburb or area you get sent to, but in particular, Mount Jewett, you know, has its really good aspects, but it was also a really challenging suburb growing up nearby. There were, you know, fires and dramas and you know, teen pregnancies galore. Um, so look, I think you I think, as a general statement, far too young to be exposed to so many things. And particularly, I know you've touched this, touched on this before. Like we were we had a very protected childhood. Yeah. So we were, you know, blessed in some ways that we knew nothing. And I I do wonder on reflection whether that has helped or hindered or whether it must have been a steep learning curve.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03It must have been a steep learning curve to be exposed to, you know, so many different aspects of life, you know, the good, the bad, and the very, very ugly. But yeah, very young, very young. I mean, I was still, you know, I was getting into a career, but I'd been studying for a lot longer and was all yeah.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And did my mental health struggles ever make you think differently about your own? Yeah, yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_03It it well, first of all, it made me well just actually really sad to realize that workplace injuries can have such a disastrous impact on people's health and in particular, you know, your health. And certainly going back to that last question, I mean, the last thing I would have thought of, and certainly the last thing you would have thought of, you know, going into the academy is you know, I have a high chance of getting a workplace injury called PTSD.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, and we it was never spoken about, right? None of that is a lot of people. That's exactly right. So as my career went on, I understood it more. And I remember saying in a job, like we're only one job away from breaking.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02It's like, yeah. Yeah. So sorry, sorry, I keep asking, I keep forgetting. No, no, that's all right. Well, I'll I'll move into the next question only because they're pretty similar, which is has my journey changed how you see mental health or trauma in general? Which is so mental health, the first the question before was how it has affected you, like has it helped you?
SPEAKER_03So Yeah, yeah. So look, 100%. I think over the last 20 years there's been like a lot of education about mental health, starting from pretty much only physical injuries count, to you know, slowly but surely having a recognition of um various types of mental health. And there has been a lot of effort to destigmatize mental health in general. And I think there's a lot of work that needs to be done. I think people throw around the word and I'm guilty from time to time of, you know, I'm depressed or oh, PTSD or trauma, and we use a lot of these sort of medical terms that have very specific medical meaning um kind of in the general vernacular now. And you know, that makes it a little bit fun, but kind of also changes things a little bit. So, yeah, look, definitely I I feel like there's been a positive change in terms of understanding mental health generally and definitely understanding PTSD more. I think people understood PTSD from a war perspective, coming back from you know, the vets and the return servicemen and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. So I think there was some understanding, but it wasn't really particularly broad. And I also think that PTSD is it's a great equalizer, if I can say that, a bit like a wetsuit. No one looks good in a wetsuit. And PTSD can affect everybody. So in that sense, it is a great equalizer, you know, rich, poor, working, not working, in any phase of somebody's life, you can be impacted by PTSD, as you can by, you know, most other mental health issues. Yeah, I think that's as well.
Signs of Healing: TMS and Humor Returns
SPEAKER_02Like cancer, it doesn't discriminate, does it? Like no, it doesn't matter. So yeah, yeah. But yeah. Is there something you wish people understood better about being close to somebody with PTSD?
SPEAKER_03Well, I remember listening to your Mel and Mel podcast last week and being really impressed with, or the week before, with Mel talking about, you know, it it's still really important to keep it as a sort of a two-way relationship because that's how friendships or relationships work. There needs to be an element of mutuality. And I would encourage anybody who's got, you know, friends, family member with really any type of mental health issue, um, but in particular with PTSD, to still have the courage to appropriately express your own needs as well. Because otherwise the relationship is is going to be changing for the negative anyway. So if you're not honest, then that's that doesn't lead to a relationship where there's growth. Um, you know, how you deliver those messages, yeah, sure. You know, that that comes with courtesy and you know, reading the room and the situation and stuff like that. Not everything needs to be said immediately either. So there's, you know, just I would just think none of it is necessarily rocket science, but it's just giving yourself permission to be able to still be present in the relationship and not, I think I used the word before, like molecottle. Because I because like how would you have felt, Liz? Like if I, you know, babied you over these last away. Would have pissed you off, right? Yeah. I mean, like you are our relationship, you are capable and confident, everything we've spoken about your character, you know, you just kind of turn upside down and go, Oh, poor Liz, she can't do this now. Or we can't give her, we can't give her bad news because uh you can't. So there still needs to be a balance, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I think going back to what you said about when my studs were at an eight and I wanted to go to basketball, and it's using that kindness in a way where you're protecting the person you love as well. So by you saying, no, listen, look, I really don't think you should go, you're already at an eight, it's like, yeah, I don't want to hear that. But yeah, it's smart, but sometimes it's you need to be that cruel to be kind type thing. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it is, it's it's it's it is a blend of you know, reading the room, understanding the situation, and knowing, well, what's the greater harm if I don't say anything, you know, in that scenario, you know, if you had gone down to basketball, that probably would have been an incident, you know, who knows what it would have been. But you were predisposed to having an incident of basketball. Yep. Yeah. And I suppose this is just to kind of wrap it up, having the courage to have hard conversations. And if that is about having to have suicide conversations, then get comfortable with saying the words suicide and don't be around the bush. If you're worried about somebody enough to be having thoughts in your head or going, you know, about whether this person may or may not, you know, act on a plan, say it out loud. Yeah. It's hard, it's awkward, but it's never gonna, as you said before, Liz, it's never gonna encourage somebody to take action if it's not already in their mind.
SPEAKER_02No, that's exactly right. And I remember you bringing up hard conversations. I remember years and years ago, I can't remember when it was like I must have needed to make a phone call that was awkward or whatever it was, and you said you just gotta rip the band-aid off. You just need to do it. It's like, yeah, that's exactly right. And I guess we can put that into this sort of situation as well. And yes, we're gonna have to have and you're gonna have to have awkward conversations with people, but it's for everybody's benefit. And if you don't do it, well, then that's when it becomes problematic. All right, can you think of a moment where you noticed I was healing where you saw a bit of the old me coming back?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I do.
SPEAKER_02I just want to add here that that question made you smile very big.
Weathering Seasons: Love and Resilience
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it did because I I knew exactly how to answer it because it was a it was a transformative kind of period for you. So just for context, when you had your first hospital admission, you called me up one day and asked about you know TMS. You had not heard of it before. And in my couple of jobs ago role, I had seen one of my clients go through a TMS, and I said, Do it, Liz. What I saw from this client, she kind of changed from being pretty much catatonic to having vibrance again. And I watched her as she went through her treatment change really before my eyes. So I'm like, do it, do it, do it. You know, do your own research, but you know, if that kind of suits you, then do it. And then when you did have your TMS, it was pretty much similar to who I was speaking about before. I could see your, I could see the fog lift, and that's how I kind of describe TMS. And you know, you can hear it in my voice, I'm excited, and I did smile because it really is like the fog lifting as the, you know, you got your morning fog in the morning, and then it lifts throughout the day. And in my observation of you list, that's what happened. Yeah, you you got your energy back, you got your vigor, and I could tell because your sense of humor, you didn't ever lose it completely, but you became you you got it back again. And I remember one time, and this is when team, I think the timing is correct. I had two exchange students with me at the time, and we visited Liz at hospital, and a lot of them didn't know how to use the um like the water dispenser. And Liz says, like something like I'm in the and something like, why am I in the sideboard when she can't even use a water dispenser?
SPEAKER_06We just pissed us off laughing. I'm like, yep, she's back.
SPEAKER_03Um she is back. She's back, yup. Taking the Mickey out of herself, taking the Mickey out of others. She's back.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_02Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was yeah, the other two girls, one stone, one friendly. Yeah, yeah. And we're in the kitchen area. Look, look in their defense though, if they were looking for hot water, you have to push two buttons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. It was funny. All right, so what have you learned about love or resilience through all of this?
SPEAKER_03Oh well, well, love is love is for all seasons. Yeah. And resilience is for all seasons. And look, if you haven't kind of figured out already, audience, I do like a bit of idiom and colour in my language. And I I I think love is very much like not being love and resilience is like not being is only being is sorry, the opposite of being a fair-weathered friend. Yeah. And I think meaningful friendships, meaningful connections, and love and resilience are linked to knowing that there'll be sunny days and cloudy days and storms and the and conflicts and the whole cycle of human feelings. But that, you know, above, you know, above it all is the feeling that regardless of what's coming, weather-wise, four seasons in a day type scenario, you're in it. You're not a fair-weathered friend.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, I think that's important too. And I I think this journey for me has certainly made me realise that I don't have the energy for fair weather friends.
SPEAKER_03No, sorry. No. Yeah. Because it's not, I mean, like yeah, that kind of links to your earlier podcast about, you know, like like value and where are you spending your precious time and energy. And if they're fair weather.
Pride, Scars, and Showing Up
SPEAKER_02Yeah, something about the seasons, not all seasons define me or something like that. This season doesn't define me. So Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Look at us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you could say one thing to me, sister to sister, about this journey about what this journey has meant to you, what would it be?
SPEAKER_03Oh, that is a great question. Gave me gris bumps. All right. Is it just because I had a I had a thought. Well, I want to say that I'm proud of how you wear your scars. And oh my goodness, do I cry? And I'm in particular, I and in particular, I'm proud of you know your honesty and your vulnerability. I mean, that doesn't come without cost. You know, the very fact that you are doing this podcast, the very fact that you are, you know, on your good days and bad days and everything else stays. You tell it how it is. And I think you are, what I want to tell you is that your journey, even your childhood journey, but in particular your PTSD journey, has told me that you can turn up in your most crappest outfit in the most awful of circumstances. But you turning up is a freaking awesome win. And that is courage, that's bravery, that's resilience. Oh my goodness. And that's heart. And I'm impressed. And I am constantly what I want to tell you is I'm constantly impressed. And if I don't tell you often enough, then shame on me. I should tell you more. But then you'd be getting all these really sugary sweet messages from me, and that'll probably make you think better. Um, so I need to be careful too. Let's just wipe our eyes. Oh, okay. Let's wipe our eyes, regain composure. That's what I would say.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Now, just before we wrap it up, is there anything else you want to add, like any of your notes that you've got there that you want to say?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's I love your potty mouth. That's what I've putting on your that's what I've put on on my list about in my preparation.
SPEAKER_02And actually, talking about that, I actually got in trouble about because when you call mum, you get dad as well, what's a two-for-one deal, but you've got the f-bomb and he goes, Listen, can you just just stop? And I felt like I'd gone smacked, like got in trouble for dad for swears. I just think it's I think it's now I just want to keep doing it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, you should. And I'll just I'll just giggle in the background. I or one of the one of the things I had in my notes was that one of the things that I do is when you're having a bad moment or when life is hard or whatever, I kind of like I don't have a lot of excellent words or sentences, but I say, man, that sucks. Have a pity party. You should have a pity party. This is awful. And actually just no point. I can't fix it. I can't fix you.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And that's not my job. And so just for, you know, if they're words that, you know, someone in the audience is listening to, like, that sucks. I mean, how do you feel? Because I when you know, when I kind of acknowledge that, because I kind of feel that's really the best that I can do sometimes is to go, oh my goodness, that that sucks. Yeah, freaking sucks, man.
SPEAKER_02That validation too, though, like just being able to have somebody go, you know what, what you're feeling is acceptable.
Thought of the Week and Closing
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So yeah, yeah. And I can't fix it. And that's yeah, and that's that's probably a hard thing. I know one of the earlier questions I didn't mention is that I want to fix things. I want to, that's kind of how my nature is. I'm a bit of a fixer. And I can't fix you, and that is a very hard thing to accept. Yeah. That's you know, I can support you and be beside you, but I can't fix you. That's your responsibility and your journey. And that that's hard and that sucks. Um yeah, but it it yeah, it is hard to well, to kind of not wanting to get into intervene mode. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. Maybe maybe you should try this. Or have you had um what did you have a um I don't know, you know, have you gonna do something breathing? Yeah, yeah, because that's gonna cure everything. You know, I haven't slept, you you know, you may not have slept in four days, and box breathing, okay, is probably gonna stop you from hitting somebody in that moment, but you're still gonna feel shit afterwards because you haven't slept in four days.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's it.
SPEAKER_03You know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Is there anything else you want to add before we get into the thought of the week? Nope.
SPEAKER_07All right.
SPEAKER_03That's my take away the thought of the week. Okay. I'm kind of doing, well, seems like it's a bit of a theme. So two kind of thoughts. One is an idiom, which is even the darkest clouds carry a silver lining. So even the darkest clouds carry a silver lining. And the other one is from the Bible, Proverbs 29, verse 18. And it says, Where there is no vision, the people perish, or where there is no hope, the people perish. And uh kind of like for me, they're kind of a little bit linked that like even on the dark days, we still need to have hope and vision. And the hope and vision doesn't need to be, you know, like climbing Mount I don't know, Everest or anything like that. The the vision, the hope for the day is to get through the day. And sometimes that is the hope for the day. Yeah. And yeah, so that's yeah, so they're my two things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Sorry. I said there's nothing wrong with the only thing that you do is make it through the day. That's brilliant. Yeah, but that's exactly right. Yeah, no small wins.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because those small rings wins are huge. I mean, because if you do them, you do them, you do them, you do them, you tell yourself that you can do hard things. Yeah. Um, and that you can, you can actually, I have. I've got history here, I've done hard things before. I don't like what I'm going through now. These are freaking hard right now, but I've got memory because I've done hard things before. Yeah. And because I've done hard things before and I can remember that, I can imagine a tomorrow. Yeah. And that's where the vision is and that's where the hope is. Yeah. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02All right. Well, thanks so much for being here with me today. This chat meant a lot and we laughed and we got the tears going, which is good. But for everyone who's listened or watched somebody they love struggle and stuck by them through it all, you've always been one of my constants. So thank you. So I hope everybody has enjoyed the episode and remember, be kind to yourself.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for tuning in to Mad Male's Mike. I'm Melissa Smith, and I hope you've enjoyed listening. You can find me on Facebook and Instagram, and don't forget to like and follow. Have a great week, and don't forget to be kind to yourself.