Intuitive Eating for Busy Professionals: Breaking the Binge-Restrict Cycle w/ Greta Jarvis | EP7

79% of binge eating experts agree: restriction leads to binge eating. Sheldon sits down with intuitive eating specialist Greta Jarvis to reveal why feeling out of control around food is a biological response, not a willpower problem, and delivers practical strategies busy professionals can implement today.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Binge eating is a biological "famine response" to restriction, not a character flaw
• The shame spiral: Restrict → Binge → Feel shame → Restrict harder → Binge harder
• The Emergency Snack Stash: Keep high-protein fuel accessible to prevent famine mode
• Protein increases satiety hormones (GLP-1, PYY, CCK) while decreasing hunger hormone ghrelin
• Consistent eating patterns prevent the binge cycle, don't skip meals
• Know your baseline: Harris-Benedict equation provides awareness without obsession
• Tracking macros is a learning tool, not a lifelong leash
• Intuitive eating isn't "eat whatever you want," it's building body awareness

Connect with Greta Jarvis

Transcript

[...0.1s]Hey, what's going on here? It's Sheldon, your host on another episode of the MBT movement on today's episode. I'm really excited to bring you my guest.This is Miss Greta Jarvis. Um, she has a background in intuitive eating and that was very much the topic we went down the road, hold on. And more or less this conversation sort of peeled the onion back for me and gave me another perspective on, you know, different strategies when it comes to nutrition or fueling the body or eating food, whatever you wanna call it. Um, but we could get so text heavy and [...0.6s] what I found, um, through my learnings and education is that a topic like nutrition can be very dense, very text heavy, dense, [...0.7s] just dry. It's a dry, it's a dry subject, you know, it's very, um, very science heavy.But I think what Greta does very well in providing the insights is with a subject like intuitive eating.It's more about being, you know, it's just that intuitive, the inner knowledge, inner knowing, something that you just gotta pay attention to and build that awareness within yourself is very case by case and there is sort of a nuanced, um, approach to this. But at the end of the day, you know um, when it comes to something like feeling and nutrition, especially with certain demographics and populations that you're working with, you gotta understand that there is different approaches based off of, um, individual personalities characteristics and more or less, um, clinical presentations that we sort of talk about in the episode as well. Um.But I'm really excited to bring you this episode again, Greta Jarvis. It was a pleasure having her and I feel like we covered a lot of bases, um, when it comes to a topic like, uh like intuitive eating. So I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did.And without further ado, I bring you Greta Jarvis and this episode of the MBT Movement. [...1.1s]Hey, what is going on, people? Thanks again for joining me on another episode of the MBT movement. I'm your host, Sheldon, and I am so excited to bring you our guest today. Uh, we have Greta Jarvis. She is a specialist in all things intuitive eating nutrition. Um, she has a very robust background and she's a Portland native with a master of Public Health from ohhsu, that's Oregon Health Sciences University, a master of science in nutrition from the National University of Natural Medicine, and a bachelors of Arts Summa Cumloudi from the Occidental Occidental College, Occidental Occidental College, all right, right.Um, she's a Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor and Integrative Health Coach through Duke Integrative Medicine.And as a founder of her of her, of her business center for Active Women, Greta helps women of all ages cultivate peaceful relationships with how they eat, how they move, and how they look.She also works closely with Evelyn Trouble, the co creator of Intuitive Eating. And she teaches graduate level eating disorders, intuitive eating courses at N U N m.Outside of work, [...0.5s] you might find her coaching JV women's LaCrosse, where she does have experience as a former collegiate athlete at Justwood High School or practicing harp, an instrument she's played since the age of ten. So really excited to bring you my guest here, Greta Jarvis. Thank you again for joining me today on the MBT movement.Greta, [...0.7s] thank you so much for having me. I'm excited for this conversation. No, absolutely, you know um like with me, with a lot of my listeners, we have a lot of busy professionals. They're, they're active adults or maybe they're even athletes to some capacity.And I think the real big piece here is it can be problematic because maybe they don't really know what new trick, like [...0.5s] the, the true value of what optimized nutrition can bring when it comes to like sure athletic performance but human performance in general. You know, whether you're sitting behind a desk, whether you're on the field, or whether you're just living everyday life. And I think we're gonna really highlight a lot of key notes here, um, that can sort of shed perspective and, you know, get people thinking a little bit more and hopefully taking nutrition, the topic of nutrition a little bit more seriously, [...0.6s] you know, right?Yeah. So, um, within MBT, you know, the whole three pillars, I, I work off of our breath, movement, and ancient wisdom. And I think the topic of intuitive eating itself definitely falls in the realm of ancient wisdom, right?This is something that we've Learned through time that has been time tested. We have the research and science and evidence to say this is, this is what's gonna be optimal in terms of human performance in biology. But even we have, you know um, things, maybe family traditions, maybe, maybe certain things that, you know uh, we've tried or we've been raised through and also, also like social norms that we can speak to when it comes to sort of eating in general.So I think providing this education is gonna be really, really huge for, for our listeners definitely. But, um yeah, you need a lot there too, of how food is so much more than just nutrition. And as long as humans have roamed the earth, that's been the case.So it's interesting as we have more nutrition science, what's left out of that conversation is often that cultural piece. So you [...0.7s] summarize that really well.Yeah, no, thank you, thank you. Well, let's start right into it. Okay. So I wanna, I wanna start off here with demystifying intuitive eating. Like what, what is it really mean? What is intuitive eating and what is it? What isn't it?I love that second part of the question because a lot of times people's misconceptions [...0.8s] is focused on what it is not or what they believe it is. So [...0.5s] intuitive eating is a free for all, just cake and doughnuts all day.That would never work for me. I would just be sitting at my kitchen counter eating French fries. And intuitive eating is much more [...0.5s] robust than that. And [...0.5s] it's not just free for all for your taste buds. Uh, of course, there is an element of for people who [...0.6s] perhaps have a history of chronic dieting or being very rigid around their eating choices, part of the work is saying how can we find a peaceful rhythm with all foods, whether you're in your own kitchen or a holiday work party, being able to be grounded in your own body and what tastes and feels good for you. But to, to simplify it, um, there's many ways to define it.I tend to like to say it's [...0.5s] what happens when we tune out all the external noise around nutrition. Any social media, influencer, media headline likely has a different definition of the quote, right way to eat. So for so many people, we start disconnecting with our bodies and outsourcing our nutrition decisions elsewhere and it becomes really chaotic and confusing really quickly.Nutrition is a relatively new science, as you alluded to earlier, it's absolutely not one size fits all. There's no one way of eating that will meet everyone's cultural backgrounds, activity level, taste buds and so forth.So where people get into that sticky, stressful territory is trying to file follow all these rules, but [...0.6s] they tend to be different at every turn. So intuitive eating is a framework that helps us tune inward and think about [...0.6s] what actually does taste and feel good in my body.How can I honor my culture, my traditions and have that be [...0.6s] part of the way that I eat?And just really finding that place of peace and confidence that your body knows best and that there's no expert of or set of rules that can override your body's wisdom. But for so many of us that, that connection has been severed.So intuitive eating facilitates that process of, of reconnection [...0.7s] that's super powerful. Something I sort of kinda took away from that was like, we have this innate intelligence, sort of like this inner knowing and inner wisdom that we already know is best for our body.But, you know, it can come, you know, especially like growing up, you don't really, yeah, you don't really have that good self awareness.Maybe you do, but if you don't, a big piece of it sounds almost behavioral, psychological and is sort of ingrained in cultural norms that maybe aren't gonna be best, [...0.7s] right?Yes. In that, that childhood growing up piece I think is a powerful one to spend some time on is thinking about what were the food norms in your home? So I, um, this wasn't super strong in my household, but definitely an element of the clean plate club.And so thinking of things like that that can disconnect you with your body's fullness cues, for example, because the focus is you need to clean your plate, not how can you pay attention to the signs your body is sending.And if, if your listeners interact with kids in any capacity, we see this intuition in act, in action. So if they're at a birthday party, they may [...0.6s] take a few bites of the cupcake and then move on to go play with their friends.There's not this internal moral emotional tug of war of should I, shouldn't I? And when we look at how little kids eat, um, if they have [...0.5s] access to a wide variety of foods in the big picture, they get their nutritional needs met.Now that may mean one meal they're just eating chicken and the next one it's a few bites of rice. And so [...0.7s] that, of course, on its own wouldn't check all the nutritional needs boxes.But again, zooming out, we see that left to their own intuition and their own devices, there is a natural inclination toward balance, toward variety. But for most of us, somewhere along the way, we start hearing those messages of your body can't be trusted. Food is something to fear and restrict.So just knowing [...0.5s] for the vast majority of people, this is something we were born with. And so it's, it's more of a relearning. And I think having interaction with little kids can be a helpful reminder there when it starts feeling really challenging.That's so interesting, you know, I'm sort of, I was sort of reflecting on, you know, I have three kids of my own and I sort of was just reflecting on the relationship I have with them in terms of how they eat. And then the mother, you know, we both, you know, we all have different backgrounds.My, my wife, she has, you know, sort of, uh, this [...0.8s] cultural upbringing. And it's almost kind of like we've heard this story where it's like, you know, we never had food in the fridge growing up. So I always wanted to make sure that there was always food on the table, food in the fridge. And we're providing that sort of thing, right?And that whenever the plate was there, like you were seeing, it's like the plates full.It better be empty when we leave, because, you know, I don't know it. It's almost like you, you don't know when you're gonna get the next meal, even though you're fine. Like, hey, present moment, everything's fine, fridge is full, we're good to go.But it's definitely like a a sort of this psychologically ingrained sort of, I wanna call it almost trauma [...0.6s] that, um, that needs to be sort of uh, broken through in that sort of way.It's very interesting to think about that, you know, [...0.8s] yes, and you bring up a very good point. We're actually starting to see more research linking food and security to eating disorders, to disordered eating or binge eating.Because of that your body is so profoundly wise, and it's wired to protect you at all costs. So [...0.6s] food and security, [...0.5s] your body doesn't know the difference between that and a life threatening famine. Food and security is famine in a lot of ways. So the body remembers that.So if someone is thinking about their relationship with food, that's actually an important question and consideration I do bring up is if you have a history or present of food and security, that does add an additional layer. And like you said, even if the fridge is full now, well the body remembers. And so it takes intentional work to, um, to get to a place where your body knows on a cellular level [...0.5s] we are safe, we are nourished.And how can we create [...0.7s] these new habits from, from that different place while honoring what shaped us in the past?Yeah, that's super powerful. That's almost speaking to like ancestral trauma. You know it's like, hey, all my life I was okay, but for some reason I don't feel right about this certain thing and I've never experienced it per se, but there's something ingrained within the DNA that can remember, like you said, remembers that and it just surfaces up for some reason, you know, when, when you do ask these sorts of questions with people, do you find more often times than not, they try to scapegoat around the question, or are they, are they in touch with it more often times than other?What what is, what is been sort of the, uh, [...0.9s] I guess the the, uh, [...0.9s] the spectrum of answers you've received with this.This is a fascinating question because [...0.5s] there are, of course, there's crossover among people's stories, but also one thing I love about this work is everyone's journey and path is so unique.So just first being very clear of my scope of practice. I'm not a therapist, so I [...0.6s] wouldn't be the one doing that focus trauma work. And it is important information to [...0.6s] organize our expectations almost of if this is something in your past, a, are you receiving the appropriate support? And b, can we adjust our expectations?That it doesn't mean you can't get to that peaceful place, but it is an additional consideration that, that needs to be given attention and care.So I would say for most people, there hasn't been a focused conversation of what is your relationship with food? How does that connect to your past, to your childhood?And so it's more so a collaborative process of discovery because these conversations are typically had in [...0.8s] the doctor's office or around the dinner table.So that's, I think most commonly what I find is that people are [...0.5s] willing and interested to have those conversations, but they don't often have an answer at the ready because sometimes it hasn't even been asked.Yeah, yeah, it's sort of like awkward turtle. Like I wanna have this conversation, but I don't know how kind, [...0.5s] right?And then even as you plant that seed, they may come back a couple sessions later and have a light bulb moment of, oh, I never connected this experience to my present day struggle. And [...0.5s] now that we have that information, what does it look like to integrate at moving forward?Yeah, wow, that's amazing. Is there, with this topic of intuitive eating, is there a difference with populations you work with? Like athletes versus gen pop? Do you find that at all?Say so athletes are my, um, popular, a population close to my heart and this is a specific population with specific needs. So one powerful example of this is that, [...0.7s] uh, exercise can actually blunt appetite.So this [...0.5s] can revisit to the definition of intuitive eating itself. Yes, it involves reconnecting with hunger, with fullness. And it involves using your logical brain.So for a lot of my athletes, it's gosh, I had a tournament all day long but I don't feel hungry. So I will follow my intuition and not have that recovery meal or snack. But we know as athletes, that's a really important part of fueling your body of recovery.And so being able to say, even though I don't feel hungry right now, I can look back and see [...0.5s] I just asked a lot of my body. I was working really hard, so what's something that [...0.7s] can sound palatable enough for me to get my needs met?So that's just one example of being aware [...0.5s] that exercise can blunt hunger signals and then being willing to adjust your nutrition accordingly.Because that is an area that can get fuzzy for athletes in particular because that hunger often comes back online, but it's delayed. So very often it, my tournament's on Saturday, I'm absolutely ravenous on Sunday.But instead of connecting that dot, I'm thinking, well, I'm, I didn't even exercise today. I shouldn't be hungry. And it kind of becomes this white knuckling, [...0.9s] mistrust [...0.6s] versus seeing.Gosh, this is actually my body communicating a need. And I can make the connection [...0.5s] that it's sort of a lingering hunger from yesterday. Yeah, when, yeah yeah, I know that's super powerful.I think the other piece of it that especially, uh, I would say with the athletic population is their performers.But maybe they just, you know um, I don't wanna say, like, they don't know any better, but it's almost like the education just needs to be shedded on and almost, almost, like, re reminded. It's like, hey, okay, this is your nervous system.This is how it works. You have your auto autonomic system, you got sympathetic parasympathetic when you're performing an athletic endeavor, right, adrenaline spikes, right, your, your appetite is gonna be suppressed, but we know that you're gonna be expanding the resources from your body, just like a race car, right?You're sucking up the race fuel and now at the end of the race you gotta fuel back up and exact. That's exactly how the body works. And I've even experienced it myself.You know, I used to do competitive Olympic weightlifting and I always knew, you know, after a competition, I was, man, I'm not really hungry right now, but I would almost, and even, like, even with bodybuilders I work with, they're like, you know, I gotta eat. I'm not hungry, I gotta eat.Because, you know, if they're in a phase of hypertrophy, they gotta make sure that they're in a surplus of the resources, so their body has, you know, what it's, what it needs to repair and to rebuild.Um, and in that sort of way, you know, I [...0.6s] with like gin pop specifically, [...0.7s] you know, those, the people that say I never eat breakfast, I always skip breakfast. I'm like, oh my gosh.Well, you're, you're basically in the fastest state for at least eight hours at this point and now you need to get, you need to get the kindling going again.And I like to relate the metabolism to like sort of like a fire. It's like when you wake up in the morning, the fire is very low and slow and you need to keep that kindly going by eating breakfast again.And [...0.7s] you know, almost like, uh, ironically enough, when you start eating breakfast, you're gonna start getting more hungry because now the fuel, now the fire starting to rise and you're starting to burn calories and you'll start seeing weight fall off when you actually have a normal eating schedule. You know, that's like the biggest thing there.So I mean, is there anything there that you would wanna speak to? Or [...0.9s] gosh, I mean, one thing I love about this work is it's so expansive. We could go in a million different directions.A few things that come to mind is [...0.7s] when we talk about culture, there is this message that less is better and I need to be restricted with my eating.But as you said, if someone is skipping breakfast, [...1.7s] everyone's different. So I never wanna say there's a right or wrong way. And we do know for [...0.5s] intermittent fasting, for example, there is a high correlation to eating disorders, to disordered eating, to that restrict binge cycle because the body, again, is interpreting that experience as a famine.And so being able to understand that of if we're getting enough sleep, you have that overnight fast.So we have that intermittent fasting kind of built into our biological rhythms. And for most people, [...0.6s] when they start incorporating breakfast, they'll be able to see, oh gosh, my, my focus is more on point throughout the day and I'm in a better mood potentially.And weight is a tricky one with intuitive eating. It's explicitly what we call weight inclusive, meaning [...1.0s] bodies come in all sorts of different shapes and sizes. And so I can't tell you what will happen with your body.And this again intersects with that cultural piece of, we have this idea that fit in healthy looks a certain way.One of my favorite examples is, is the Olympics. If you've ever watched the Olympics, these are people at the top of their sport competing on the world stage. We see all sorts of weights and shapes and sizes.So that's another element of intuitive eating and tuning into your own body's wisdom is saying, can I release that certain number on a scale or certain physique and say instead my body is my teammate. Let's work together to find that place where it feels nourished and safe.Yeah, that's powerful. I love that my body is my teammate. That's a huge one for sure.Yeah. And I think the Segways right beautifully right into the, our next topic, which is the binge restrict, uh, restrict cycle. Right? So, um, the science behind it and, you know, you kind of touch to some of the key, key topics here.The first being the famine response, which is, you know, when you restrict, your body thinks food is scarce and it triggers like a survival mechanism, right? It drives you to over consume whatever food is available.And then your body just kinda like holds on to it and says, well, we don't know what the next time we're gonna get our next meal.So we're just gonna, [...0.8s] we're just gonna hang on to this, [...1.4s] the other piece of his biology, right? It's biology. It's not will, willpower, the shame spiral, breaking the cycle, like all these different types of, of topics.But, you know, can you speak to these a little bit more, you know, starting with maybe like the famine response cycle and, you know, how it ties to maybe even like the psychological component of, of, um, binge eating. There's one of my favourite ways to illustrate this.There's a physician out of Denver, Jennifer Gaudiani, and she talks about how we all have a cave person brain deep inside whose sole purpose is to protect us, is to keep us alive.And because famine has been a huge threat to human survival, it is extraordinarily sensitive to under eating, under nutrition.So cave person brain doesn't know the difference between [...0.7s] oops, busy morning, I skipped breakfast, prom season's coming around or I'm trying this new set of food rules and a life threatening famine.So if any one of those more cultural motivators drive us into the territory of biological undereating, our cave person brains red alert alarm system is going on high.And [...0.5s] that will lead people into these experiences of, [...0.5s] quote, out of control eating or binge eating or I feel like I'm overeating, which for most people is a very negative experience. And instead of seeing that whole picture of what actually LED into this, [...0.5s] the typical reaction is, as you said, shame or blaming yourself or this is exactly why I need rigidity restriction around my eating. I need to get it together. And [...0.8s] the cycle goes on and on. Um.Psychologically, as you said too, we can go back to our toddler example and say if you put five toys in front of a toddler and say, you can have any one of these [...0.6s] except for this one, we know, [...0.6s] we know where their attention will be held.So that's another component. When people have really strict rules or rigidity around food, the moment you tell yourself you cannot or should not eat XYZ, [...0.5s] you're just tightening your psychological draw toward that very food.So we see [...0.8s] psychologically, biologically rigidity and restriction really drives this experience of overeating.But so many people [...0.9s] blame themselves and don't see the big picture of how did I get to this place in the first place? And could it be [...0.6s] my body's actually responding exactly, exactly how we would expect it to? It's, it's working hard to protect you. And this isn't a lack of willpower or a character deficit by any means.Yeah. What strategies do you find or helpful when working with someone who is maybe in this sort of frame of mind, you know, just being very harder on themselves?It almost sounds like it's the ego piece as well where you just gotta sort of like um like give that almost like surrender as a, hey, you know like I know what's best for my body.I'm gonna follow that inner knowing and just pursue that. Like what has been your experience in, you know, helping people overcome that?Well, the first piece that has to be in place is nutritional adequacy. So as long as someone is under eating, even subtly, [...0.6s] cave person brain is going to be on high alert.So this is one, maybe we can link it back to our, our athletes. Um. There's a framework I like to share called Relative Energy Deficiency in sport. And we can actually apply this to athletes and non athletes alike, but it maps out [...0.6s] the health consequences and performance consequences of under eating. And I find this to be a very helpful [...0.5s] checkpoint for people, um, because bodies express under nutrition in different ways.So on the health side of things, for example, it's very common for female athletes to lose their periods and that's seen as something normal. Um. Frequent injuries or illnesses, even having to pee a lot is an interesting one. Um, GI distress.There's all of these symptoms that sometimes are linked to undereating and the kind of common knowledge, but most of the time it's not.So I think [...0.5s] offering people [...0.5s] a tool like that [...0.5s] to say, how might your body be communicating [...0.5s] under eating and how can we actually give under eating the attention it deserves when most people I work with, including athletes, their concern is I'm afraid of over eating.Hmm. And so I think that reframe is [...0.8s] very powerful of, you know what, let's actually shift the narrative toward making sure you're eating enough consistently and [...0.6s] relative energy deficiency in sport or reds, I find just offers a helpful kind of personal check in to give you a concrete list of how the body might express under eating. Because for anyone, athlete or not, [...0.5s] food fuels every cell. Your heart beats around the clock, your lungs are expanding and food is a [...0.7s] crucial, [...0.9s] uh, crucial component of all of those things. So, [...0.8s] um, that's a long winded way of answering your question.I think we really need to be [...1.2s] focusing on adequacy enoughness rather than trying to white knuckle it and say I just need to find the right set of rules.Yeah yeah, for individuals that are more like in terms of strategic approaches from me, [...0.5s] what I've always found helpful [...0.8s] was tracking macros. Now I know it works for some people, for other people maybe doesn't.The other piece is lifestyle factor. So I've even recommended true [...0.7s] intermittent fasting, right? Because people intermittent fasting is one of those trendy things, like yeah, I didn't eat for 12 hours and then the next day I just ate normal. Well, you're not really doing it, right, so [...0.8s] I have, I I, I try to recommend based off of lifestyle, and that's, kind of, my, my big lens here, and it's my, my nutritional advice is very general here, I say, okay, what is your life look like? Let's, let's cater a nutritional strategy that works around that for what I found most helpful, um, especially for analytical type of people, type of folk like me. Um, macros help me the most because I know exactly how much protein, how much carbs, how much fats I need to keep myself at least maintain.Right, um, is this a strategy you like to incorporate with clients, or do you find that it kinda goes over, over the ceiling? What, what's been your experience with, with this sort of thing? Well, when I describe my work with people, I usually say I focus more on the how than the what.So certainly we may discuss [...0.5s] specific kinds of foods or different strategies, but for so much of it, it's more how can we give your individual situation, your holistic health, which involves mental health, social health, spiritual health, all of these things and say, like you said, then what fits with your unique life and your unique situation?Some people may find that tracking macros, like you said, offers a helpful scaffolding. For other people, it may be that slippery slope into disordered eating. And they find that instead of being present at their team dinner, for example, there's all this mental math around what I'm eating. And so being able to [...0.5s] say your mental health matters too.When we speak about healthy eating. It's not as black and white as often the media makes it seem. So how can you, again, tune in to your specific personality, your specific schedule and really answer that question for yourself is what [...0.7s] nutritional strategy [...0.7s] truly nourishes you? And feeding yourself is no small task.I mean, that's a part of adulthood of goodness, [...0.5s] feed myself multiple times a day. There's really no shortcut for that, and so [...0.6s] whatever you can do to feel most supported, I am, I am team, let's do that. It's very much not, um, one size fits all, definitely, no, no, I can appreciate that.And, and I know, [...0.5s] you know kinda like you were, uh, mentioning earlier is sometimes it works for some people, but for others, they can get into this sort of mindset of analysis paralysis where it's like, I got all the gizmos and all the gadgets and all the technology, why isn't it working?It's like you know, you need to just kinda give that up. And almost, you know, maybe that's not the right strategy for you, you know, with the fitness trackers or even with, like, the apps, like my Fitness Power Chronometer, whatever the case might be, um, people can tend to go, like, over.It's almost like everything, right, um, you wanna do something with moderation and even moderation, right?You don't wanna overdo something [...0.5s] to a point where you're abusing it. And now it's like, now you're completely missing the point, right, it's, kind of, the main piece here, so [...1.0s] practical strategies, practical being the big word here is like, you know yeah, we have all the research and all the data to validate, you know, why we're doing what we're doing, but we don't need to over analyze it.Let's just take the core concepts here and say, okay, [...0.7s] here's what you need, here's what's best for you.Follow the path and trust the journey is, kind of, the idea almost with, with something like intuitive eating, right, [...0.6s] yes, and how self care nutrition, [...0.6s] the fundamentals are pretty simple, pretty basic.And as you said, there's so much information, there's so much technology, so [...0.6s] it can be very easy to get swept up into that. And if you're someone who loves the latest fitness technology, awesome, you know, lean into that.But for a lot of people I work with specifically, it's how can we release some of those [...0.6s] external noises and really just get back to the basics and say, are you getting enough sleep?What's your social life looking like? Stress levels, are you eating regularly? We know [...0.6s] all three macronutrients, carbs, fat, protein all play an important role.So can we revisit it from a very fundamental level and understand it doesn't have to be so techy or complicated, but that's there if people find it interesting and enjoyable. And I think having that awareness, too, of my health [...0.7s] extends into my social health, my mental health, my spiritual health.And if I notice that these gizmos is [...0.5s] interfering with those other areas, can I pause and take a breath and just [...0.6s] make sure that I'm giving all of those areas that care and attention that they deserve?Yeah I mean back to the holistic, the balanced approach, right? Everything in its place is kind of the idea here, [...0.7s] you know, [...0.6s] with, with that.When it comes to practical strategies, do you have sort of like uh, a back pocket of notes, like your go TOS. When it comes to practical strategies when working with clients, like what are just some, some of the basics that people should know?For most people, it really goes back to the consistency and enoughness piece. So [...0.5s] are we eating for athletes, for example? Are you getting some sort of nutrition every three to four hours? And knowing that we link it back to our cave person brain, [...0.6s] that's gonna reassure cave person brain that we're not in a famine, we're doing fine.So consistency is something that [...0.5s] is usually step one because if that's not in place, you know, you can have all the positive self talk mantras in the world, but as long as your brain thinks there might be a famine, there's going to be this cascade of other effects.So what that usually looks like is, okay, let's think about your typical week. Do you work from home? Do you work in an office? What is, [...0.6s] you know, your grocery habits look like? Do you, can you meal prep several times a week? So you're not coming home and [...0.6s] there's an empty fridge and you're ravenous.So really [...0.5s] practical things like that of what is it actually take to [...0.6s] keep yourself fed? And [...0.6s] if that's a meal prep kit, amazing. If that's [...0.5s] having a party with your partner every Saturday where you chop a bunch of food and [...0.5s] just have it ready to go, that's great.Because [...0.7s] unfortunately, I, I wish there was a way to make this super simple, but a lot of it really is, can we think through the logistics and, um, be prepared for when, especially if you're an athlete going from school to practice and then home and you have hours of homework you need to think about what part of your days and week can you dedicate to preparing food and snacks. Can you have an emergency snack stash in your locker, for example?So being able to, to recognise what are the barriers to feeding yourselves regularly and how can we brainstorm to, to set yourself up for your busy days and weeks.Yeah. Are there like specific like, do you pay attention to protein and all say hey, if if, if anything fails, just make sure you get enough protein at the end of the day. Or are there like specific, uh like foods that you would recommend, or is it all just case by case dependent? Let's say mostly case by case. One area I find myself spending more time on is that carbohydrate category.So this is one where [...0.5s] a lot of my athletes, uh, feel [...0.5s] that less is better. And [...0.5s] we circle back to that concept of relative energy deficiency in sport. We're actually having more research that shows not eating enough carbohydrates can have some of those similar negative effects even if someone's eating technically enough calories.So for athletes specifically, carbs are what fuel you through that hard workout. They're your brain and body's preferred fuel source.So [...0.7s] more so than emphasizing one or the other, the conversation is they're all important and [...0.6s] a lot of people have that hesitancy towards carbs. So it's talking about how can we actually incorporate them and not fear them.Yeah yeah, no, that's really interesting. And something that kind of popped in my mind is like, how do you deal with individuals who are maybe have like dietary restrictions so like um, vegetarians or, um, even like keto types where they are really too fond of carbs. How do you navigate that?Yes, and this is a, this is a complicated one, of course. A podcast platform is very different than, yeah, sitting with someone in the room. So, um, [...0.7s] it's very conversational of, hmm, like we said, there's many ways to get your nutritional needs met.If you think back to before, we could just hop on an airplane, all the continents, countries, communities had their specific way of eating that looked very different, but [...0.6s] they have carbs, they have fat, they have protein. So understanding that [...0.6s] it looks different for everyone. And then there's usually a lot of conversation of, okay, what are the motivators behind wanting to go vegetarian, for example? And [...0.6s] if you choose to take that path, okay, what are specific consideration? So iron and B12 are common nutrients that get named as you may just have to give a little extra attention to certain nutritional categories. It's doable, but my work is more talking about what is your relationship with food and [...0.6s] where did these choices come from?And is it coming from a place of? There's a dietitian named Christie Harrison on the East Coast. She's, she has the tagline of self care, not self control. So that is typically where my conversations are versus [...0.6s] prescribing [...0.6s] specific ways of eating.Yeah, no, that's, that's super helpful. I I bet, [...0.6s] I bet that's really like powerful conversations you have because it almost, it's almost like, if you are prescribing, your bound to that and that sort of the expectation that people have is like, okay, they're gonna tell me how to eat where it's like for you, you can [...0.5s] really, and, you know, like, like you said earlier, scope of practice for sure is gonna be what you stay within, but you can kind of push that conversation to get people thinking a little differently and just shedding perspective and insight through, like, hey, this is what the research is saying, but I, and in actuality, um, have you ever given this thought, right? Is more or less how the conversation sort of goes, right? Right?Yeah. And being able to [...0.7s] really peel back the layers of, I have, I've yet to meet someone who was raised in this culture who has had a completely uncomplicated, peaceful, easy relationship with food and body.Yeah. So that [...0.6s] typically where the work is, is when did you first hear the message that your body can't be trusted?When did food first become this [...0.5s] scary, stressful thing? And we know that eating disorders are [...0.8s] rising horrifyingly fast, especially post covid.And those are dangerous, [...0.6s] potentially deadly [...0.7s] conditions. And so we need to give more airtime to that and saying, [...0.6s] unless there's a severe medical allergy, there's no single food that will hurt you as much as an eating disorder will.So really being clear on, [...0.5s] can you give equal attention to your relationship with food as you do [...0.5s] the types of food you are eating?And of course, we know there's a difference between [...1.2s] an apple and [...1.0s] a jelly bean, for example. Nutritionally intuitive eating doesn't ignore that, but it says how can they both be [...0.9s] emotionally morally neutral? And so that you approach them both from a grounded place and maybe, maybe some days you enjoy those jelly beans and they taste good and maybe others you think, ah, I'm I'm, I'm okay, I don't feel like eating today. And understanding that big picture, [...0.6s] flexibility, balance, variety are our key components to, [...0.7s] um, quote healthy eating. If we, we could call it that.Yeah, that's interesting. And, and I think that, you know, I've seen this time and time again, is, [...0.7s] pardon me, is [...1.3s] specific foods that elicit a craving doesn't necessarily mean that you want the food more or less. It could equivocate a nutritional deficiency.So, like, for instance, like, oh, you know, I'm really craving carrots. So I was like, oh, you need, you know, what you really need is like a keratine or something like that, or, you know, jelly beans. Maybe what you really need is like glucose and like a more in an alternative form. Is this something that you follow at all?Yes, and I think one, the thing that popped into mind as you were talking is, um, when we are not eating enough, which is more common than I think a lot of people recognize. Hmm, it makes sense [...0.7s] for your body to crave those more calorically dense food.So something I hear over and over again is, gosh, I get home after dinner and just [...0.7s] inhale a, a pint of ice cream or whatever it might be, right?And if we zoom back and say, okay, well, what did your day look like in terms of eating? And often it's so well, I had a meeting during lunch, so I, I didn't get a chance to eat lunch or whatever the story may be.And it's well, actually that late night craving [...0.6s] was your body [...0.6s] again showing how it's your teammate because [...0.6s] a body that's not getting enough food, well that cup of ice cream is much more effective and helpful than a cup of lettuce, for example.Yeah. So I think that's more where the conversations are of. People feel very distressed often times around craving certain foods. But we can link that back to this restrict binge cycle and say your body is actually quite wise in knowing what to crave.If there's been some sort of nutritional deficiency, so [...0.8s] typically it's okay. Let's go back. Can we kind of regulate eating and making sure you're eating consistently? You may still enjoy a dessert after dinner [...0.6s] every once in a while, but usually the intensity, the sense of urgency and the, this happens every night, um, dissipates naturally because your body and mind [...0.6s] feel nourished and are getting enough to eat.Yeah, that kind of got me thinking as well as like, oh, the person who had the meeting and they had a bunch of tasks and they weren't really able to eat.Okay, well, they're probably now depleted of carbs, right? Preferred energy source, now you're in a deficiency, you need carbs, so again, something like ice cream, very carbohydrate dense, you get it right there, boom.So I mean, that, that makes sense as well. And it in the lens of intuitive eating, it's like, oh, you know uh, if you didn't know, otherwise, like, oh my god, I'm being so, so awful to myself.But if it tastes so good, but really what you're doing is replenishing yourself in that sort of sense as well, I'm really interesting to think about and I wanted to like uh sort of you know, [...0.5s] we don't have to exactly like point the finger and say exactly what it is, but through your perspective, what you had, you had mentioned that during covid there is an uptick in eating disorders.Could you make any sort of, um, guesses as to why that is? Is it the transition from [...0.6s] staying at home to now having to go back in the office? Or I guess what, what could you point your finger to when it comes to [...0.6s] why this might be? [...1.1s]There's many ways to answer that question. I think what immediately popped up was that was a time when things felt so uncertain and so out of our control.And many people food, body, exercise feel like something, okay, if I can't control anything else, here's something I can take charge, take action on. And sometimes that can slip into the extreme. Um.The social piece is another one. And so we know staying connected socially is a huge part of overall wellness. And that was something that was stripped away as well. And so it was just a very [...0.7s] challenging [...0.6s] few years in a lot of ways. And food and body can offer a very [...0.5s] effective coping mechanism.So I think [...0.6s] having compassion for that is important of, if you use that at a time of your life, it got you to where you are today.So it may have been a valuable survival strategy in that moment. And now if you're noticing, you know, what this is coming from a more [...0.7s] disordered, rigid place, [...0.8s] can you recognize that and say, what other tools can I use to meet those needs?Hmm hmm, sort of like yeah like a coping mechanism that now you're interchanging. It's sort of like stepping back looking at it through more like third person lenses and saying, whoa, okay, we need to reassess and adjust to where we currently are in this life. Right?And another huge component I, I've realized I forgot to mention is we spent so much more time online and we know that social media use, seeing those idealized, edited images can [...0.6s] drive up body shame and, um, fear around food.So there's a [...0.5s] long list of reasons we could say why, but those are, those are some crucial ones that the research has been paying more attention to.Yeah, that's amazing. [...1.2s] Well, um, I wanna close it off with a few more discussion points, um, more or less things that we've reviewed. Um, but when it comes to movement, how do you, how do you find movement and nutrition work together for overall wellness, you know, from that holistic lens?This is something actually we I, I don't think that I said this, I think we were talking about it before we hit record, but intuitive eating has 10 principles. They're easily Googleable.Googleable [...0.6s] is that how you say that? And, um, principle 9 is actually around movement and similar to shedding the guilt and shame and rigidity around food, intuitive eating approaches movement in that same way.So instead of seeing it as punishing or [...1.0s] compensatory, what actually feels good in your body?What do you enjoy? And how can we approach movement through that place versus one that feels very stressful and rigid? Because we know movement is so nourishing for [...0.5s] mind body health, [...0.8s] but if it's coming from that more [...1.4s] just punishing place, yeah, you're kind of undoing some of those powerful benefits.So again, we can use our logical brain and say, okay, strength training, that's important. What are the ways I can meet that need that are actually enjoyable to me? Maybe it's having a gym buddy or taking a certain class.So [...0.5s] really tuning inward and say, how can I [...0.7s] think about my own schedule, my own preferences [...0.5s] rather than looking to my favourite influencer and feeling like I need to copy what they're doing?Exactly. Definitely, yeah, stepping out, stepping out of that lens, stepping out of the ego and just saying, hey, what's gonna be best for me? At the end of the day, we're all meant to move, right?As a human species and movement can come in many [...0.5s] ways shapes for forms. Whether it's sports, whether it's athletics, whether it's traditional gym workouts, whether it's yoga, whether it's getting the water, whether it's doing yard work, housework is even movement and activity that, you know, it's, it's easy to overlook.I used to work in this [...1.0s] in the sitting ergonomic setting, and my role was injury prevention specialist.And what I worked at two sites, and one of the sites, it was a paper mill, very labor demanding work. And one of the guys I was working with, he was a Miller, right? So he worked in maintenance department.So he's getting in nooks, crannies, crevices, anything you can think of and really having to like over extend his body and put his body through the grinder. And they're working 12 hour shifts if they're picking up overtime at 16 hours.So this guy comes in, and he's talking to me about some low back pain that he's been dealing with, cause he had to pick up a 200 pound valve by himself. And he's like, oh, yeah you know okay, what do you do outside of work?He's like, I do Crossfit, like, six days a week. I'm like, dude, your smokes man, what are you doing? He's like, no, I'm great, I work out. I'm like, oh, you know that, like, you doing all the work that you do here at the mill, like, it's, it's destructive to your body. You are crushing yourself, like, nah, this is, this doesn't count as a workout. Psychologically, that's where he was.I had to flip his perspective to see my friend, this is exactly why your body just, just told you to tap out a little for a little while here right, that little back pole right here, and then not being anything major resolved it really quickly.Um, but it was just his nervous system saying that, dude, we are hitting, we are on the red line for way too long and we need to back off. We need a break. And that's what it was, [...0.7s] you know um.But going back to your conversation, movement is medicine, but also the dose dictates to poisons. What I like to say, right? You can't overdo it.You can't overdo it. Yeah, [...0.6s] yeah, in recovery, I mean, for a lot of people who I imagine are listening very driven, perhaps have a history of high school or college athletics, recovery is so important and often is left out of the conversation.So especially when I work with high schoolers, they maybe are playing on their high school team and a club team.So when I pose this question to so many of them, they actually don't have a single recovery day all week for months and months on end and hadn't even thought about that as something that could be, [...0.8s] um, contributing to injury or inhibiting [...0.7s] them getting stronger.Because there's this idea that more is better and harder is better. And [...0.8s] there's an element of truth to that, but like you said, [...0.6s] are we also allowing the body to rest, repair, recover, and that's something that can't happen if you're doing six days of Crossfit and a manual labor job all day.Exactly, [...0.5s] exactly, yeah, the recovery is super important and even, um, even through things like breath work, people like, oh yeah, I know how to breathe.And then I know, you know, if I'm in the position to work with them one on one in person, I put them on the table and I show them exactly what I mean by being like, well, I didn't even know it like this, yeah, and how's your low back feeling now?I don't wanna feel it anymore [...0.5s] crazy, you know, but the things that, uh, the powerful impact through something like breath, you can make breath work its own workout in itself, right?And again, it's, it's flipping that psychological perspective to say, hey, workouts don't have to be punishing and I don't have to be drenching [...0.6s] blood and sweat and tears at the end of every workout. You know um, the recovery component is super important, super vital.And, um, especially as we aged, physiological spring, just saying spring is, it once was when we were playing euro, you know, I grew up in Hawaii, so beach volleyball, you know, the kids, they would be playing that year round club sport and in team sports.So, [...0.6s] um yeah, there's definitely, uh you know, the Bill comes due at some point, right?It just comes a matter of managing that, that for sure, [...1.9s] that's a great point. And even with something like relative energy deficiency in sport, for example, stress fractures are a huge warning sign of that very common. And [...1.0s] like you said, the body always wins.So with restricting food, an athlete may experience some potential short term performance benefit that feels like what they're doing is working, but that's gonna catch up to them. And that usually takes the form of some sort of injury that then takes them out of the game altogether.So we need to be thinking about longevity and all of these different pieces of the puzzle rather than just the grind grind, grind.Hmm yeah, exactly. This is one book I just, it just remind me of. It's called the Body Keep Score. Um, I forget who it's by, but it's a really good book. This is sort of what it talks to as well. It's, it goes a lot more broader than that, but that's exactly what it is.The body keeps score. The nervous system knows. And there are check engine lights.So to say that go off on the body that will let you know, [...0.5s] you know, or less more or less try to highlight and, uh, try to bring to the forefront of your mind when you need that rest. And if you ignore it, that's when it turns into something more catastrophic.So stress fractures turn to full fractures, you know, low back little twinges turn into disc herniations, whatever the case might be.You know, so we, we definitely have to take that sort of lens and honor our body in that sort of way, and, and respect its limits and know that hey, we can live the fight another day, right? It doesn't have to be hand hand day every day.Haha, so [...0.6s] exactly, exactly, and I think just [...0.5s] taking that exhale and saying in so many cases, it can be about simplifying, and so it doesn't have to be this really complicated equation that hits everything just right.Instead of zooming in on the micro, can we think about the big picture? Because [...0.6s] that can also be overwhelming feeling like I have to do all the hundreds of things and saying, gosh, actually we can strip it down to something quite simple.It's not always easy. We have a lot of responsibilities that were juggling, but [...0.6s] how can we, [...0.6s] you know, hit that, that good enough metric without then [...1.0s] heaping on additional shame of now you're not doing wellness good enough, well enough, right?No, absolutely, I think you said it perfectly there, Greta. Um, well, I, I wanna wrap this up.I don't wanna take up any more time. Thank you so much for coming on today, Greta. I think we, we shed it a lot of perspective, a lot of knowledge, a lot of good things that we talked about here. And really the key takeaways here are one, binge eating is a response to restrictions, not a character flaw.Two, consistent eating patterns prevent the famine response, right? And I think [...0.6s] even, like, in the bigger picture of things, consistency is key with anything we do in life. Whether you're trying to get better at something, whether, you know, you're trying to dial in your nutrition, whether you're trying to be good parent or are, um, trying to develop in your career profession, there were the rule, whatever the role is you're playing, consistency to some degree is gonna be key.Another piece of that is also balance, right? Not over abusing what it is you're trying to pursue. [...1.0s] No 3. Keeping an emergency snack stash, right? Or more or less having something to help you prevent going to the fam, prevent going into the famine response, right.Whether it's an emergency snack stash, um, more or less using that intuitive lens to say, hey, this is what feels good for me, and this is what helps keep me eating keel, right.Using that, that lens of inner knowing. And then another one here, um, I like to do is prioritizing protein and fats, but again, this isn't, uh, this isn't like, uh, like a knife hand saying you gotta do it this way, right? Um. There are many skins to the layer of the onion here and everybody has their perspective, um, their life and their upbringing.And I think more or less all we're trying to do here is shed light and understanding so that we can have a better, uh, knowing moving forward. Right? Is there anything else you wanted to add to that? Greta? I think that that summed it up really well.I suppose the one thing I would add is thinking about your health, mental health, social health, spiritual health.Taking that more holistic approach can often be helpful if someone is feeling [...0.6s] stuck in rigidity around food and exercise and saying, how can I actually zoom out the lens and see the whole picture?Of course, food and exercise are key components, but [...1.0s] that holistic picture is so much more broad than that. Yeah, [...0.5s] definitely, definitely.Awesome. Well, Greta, thank you again for coming in. Let, let the people know where can they find you? What do you do? Let the people, yeah, thanks for having me, Sheldon.This is awesome. You, the best place to find me is on my website and that is center for Active women dot com. We can link to that in the show notes, I'm sure. And then, um, follow me on Instagram.I'm trying to post more. Um, it's a, it's a growing space, but that's also center for Active Women and my website will be a, a good launch point for finding Instagram, LinkedIn, email, all that good stuff.So I always love hearing from people and I think if people listen to your podcast, I can say we already have a lot in common. So please reach out, would love to hear from you and thank you to everyone for taking the time to listen.Awesome. Greta, you're the best. Thanks again for doing this. And I look forward to listeners, um, getting the insight and perspectives we talked about. So thanks again, Greta. Appreciate you. Thank you.Alright. Hey, y'all, thanks again for listening to this episode. I hope you got some, uh, good perspective and some good insight. For me, this is a very enlightening conversation and really shedded to light, um, the whole intent of a topic like intuitive eating and how it could be integrated into such a mundane subject like nutrition.Um, but yeah, this was my guest, her name again, Greta Jarvis. You, you can find her on the social media at the center for Active Woman. You can also find her website at [...0.7s] WWW center for Active woman.com.And I'll also be posting her socials and ways you can find her in the show notes as well as resource docs. Um. In addition to that, if you haven't already, please do subscribe to the MBT Movement podcast. Check out my free school community that at sk 0.0 l dot com dot school dot com forward slash movement based therapy, where you will get podcast exclusives to include the video format of this podcast as well as citation resource documents.So anything we talk about pertaining to evidence based research, I create a separate resource DOC citing those specific studies for you to be able to check out at your leisure, which you will get exclusively as being a part of my school community.So thank you for checking out this podcast. I will continue to do my best to provide insights and value to this podcast and I look forward to seeing you all in the next one. [...4.4s][...4.4s]