Episode 4: The Transformative Power of Theatre feat. Educator Kevin Bergman - Part 2

Join host Darren Kinsman for a captivating dive into the power of performance in education with Juilliard-trained actor and educator Kevin Bergman. Step into the magical world of theatre, where tough boys rediscover play amid props and vibrant costumes, and shy peers unveil hidden talents under the spotlight, leaving teachers awestruck. In today’s AI-driven world, Bergman reveals why theatre remains essential, igniting courage, resilience, and authentic human connection. Perfect for educators, parents, or anyone who treasures stories of young people finding their spark. Settle in for an emotional, educational journey packed with practical ways to harness the power of the stage.

Abridged Annotated bibliography

For those who are interested in using drama in their part in English language education, the following books offer concrete examples of classroom drama activities with rationale and guidance for using them. Some have short, original scripts and advice about preparing skits and plays for performance, but the emphasis in most is on drama games and exercises for students’ personal creative development and language learning, not for performance.

In the titles below, the resources strongest on scripted performance are Burke  (2002)  in English and Ota (2024) in Japanese.

Burke, A. F., & O'Sullivan, J. C. (2002). Stage by stage: A handbook for using drama in the second language classroom. Heinemann.
Cahnmann-Taylor, M., & McGovern, K. (2021). Enlivening instruction with drama and improv: A guide for second language and world language teachers. Routledge.
太田 雅一 Ota, M. (2024)、生徒の英会話力が向上する 英語劇・ドラマメソッド (Seito no Eikaiwa ryoku ga kojo suru Eigo Geki: Drama method  Improving Students' English Conversation Skills: The English Drama Method )    幻冬舎 Gentosha
Savage, A. (2019). The drama book: Lesson plans, activities, and scripts for English-language learners (W. Burns, Ed.). Alphabet Publishing.
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A link to Mr. Bergman's complete annotated bibliography will be supplied at a later date. 

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Intro & Outro song: Unlock Me (Royalty free)

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Transcript

Darren 0:00

Do you want to make your lessons more engaging and meaningful? Then join me on the PIE SIG Podcast with Darren as we explore performance in education with passionate teachers who bring it to life in their classrooms. Welcome to part two of my conversation with Kevin Bergman. If you haven't heard part one yet, I recommend starting there. In this episode, we explore why theater can be such a powerful tool in education. Kevin shares stories from his productions and offers practical ideas for how teachers can bring performance into their own classrooms. Kevin, welcome back to the podcast.

Kevin 0:36

Thank you very much.

Darren 0:38

In this second part, I really want to focus more on your personal experience with drama. Yes. And I'd like you to tell us about a student who really surprised you when they got onto the stage.

Kevin 1:10

You know, seeing how they act in class ordinarily. Because I'm a theater person, I can make some judgments about, you know, if I've got a drama to cast, I can think, oh, well, if I'm doing Macbeth, how many possible Macbeths do I have, and how many possible bank quos do I have, etc. So you try and think about casting. But the hidden side of students, one of the first things that comes up is in my classes, I will do something where I will bring several racks of costumes and properties, and say, here's an example of the kind of costumes we wear, the kind of wigs that we might use, or the kind of hats. And it is always surprising what happens next. Those two cool for school faces or poker-faced boys are suddenly running around dueling with swords, or they're trying on costumes and laughing, and you know, sitting in front of the mirror and checking out the hats. And it's it's like a transformation back to the playground, you know, back to primary school. And I do it intentionally, that in some other exercises, just to see what happens when disguise, when trying on literally what it's like to have different clothes on, what that kid might do in a in a drama situation.

Darren 3:08

Do you think some of that is just because they leave their ego behind and they're not being judged by who they are but the role that they've they've taken on?

Kevin 3:16

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think I think that there's a definite masking that characters will give you. Usually I ask students what they want to play, or uh then I'll ask students to recommend their classmates for roles. And I say, don't use it as a chance to you know tease somebody or you know say, oh, we'll make him do the lead role, you know, because we don't like him. And that kind of I mean that there there are you do run the risk of doing that, but if you take it as a questionnaire, students who say, I I would like to try this role, can be really, really surprising. I mentioned I teach in a boys' school and I I initially rewrote scripts and made sure that we didn't have to do anything where boys would have to play girls' roles. At some point or another, my students said, Hey, we're Japanese, we do kabuki, you know, kabuki has you know onagata and girls have takorazuka, and you know, it's it's no biggie, we can do it. And I said, Well, I don't want it you to make fun, I don't want I don't want it to be, you know, cheesy. And so again, it maybe is maybe they're right. It's actually quite a hard-acting challenge. But I I've been astonished at how, like in one case, I'm thinking of a role in King Lear, as there are three daughters in King Lear, one one good one and two, you know, kind of really bad ones. The bad ones are always popular because kids want to get back at their sisters and their moms, maybe. But I'm thinking of one boy who was really quiet and kind of diffident and very unobtrusive, wore glasses, always kind of was really cool. Didn't seem like he was very interested. And he wanted to do one of the the the um the evil sisters. Anyway, the the the total result was a very elegantly dressed, striking, powerful woman. And you would never have guessed that to look at the kid. It's like, where did that come from? Another favorite thing, it's happened a number of times, where, well, I taught in a school that has very, very, very high-level students, but even high-level students, you have less able, highly able students. Particularly in the fifth year of English study, the the kids that don't do well in English uh never get it, you know, they have bad grades, don't like English, and maybe they don't like study so much. But somehow those are the kids that often took my class. And I would look at their English grade going, oh, I don't, you know, this is an English drama. Or in case in this case, I'm thinking of one Merchant of Venice, it's Shakespeare. One of one of my merch, I've done Merchant of Venice a couple of times. There's three suitors that are, it's the the um casket subplot of the story where three suitors are uh suitors come to win the hand of this noblewoman, but they have to pass a test. They have to open, or they have a choice of three boxes. And if the box that they open has the picture of the lady that they're trying to win, then they they they get her. And they always everybody messes up, except, of course, our hero who is supposed to, you know, get her. At any rate, those are characters that have long speeches because they they're there it's like you know, at least a page, sometimes longer, of dialogue. Well, one of the boys who was doing one of the the failed suitors was kind of famous for being, you know, a n'erdo well that didn't get good grades and was often sleeping in class. Um but he wanted to do this role. And it was a struggle. It was not easy for him. The English was hard, well, uh, for everybody, but he he stuck with it, you know. I gave him, you know, I read the speech uh into a recorder for him so he could hear intonation and all like that. He worked he worked really hard on it. And he was okay, you know. When we did the performance, it was it was tough, it was tough going for him. But later, like other teachers, not English teachers, but like his homeroom teacher, just came up to me dumbfounded. And I said, I I don't know what you did, but I've never seen that kid look like that. I didn't recognize him, his face was different. How did he learn all that English? What happened? I want to say drama happened, that's what happened. And that happened many times, where the least likely kid scored in drama, and sometimes you think, well, it's you know, like emotional intelligence or multiple intelligences, that's what I'm trying to say. That's how we grade students is a very narrow band often in Japanese schools. Kids that do well on tests get good grades, and if you're not that kind of if that's not your intelligence, if your intelligence is more you know, relations or on movement, or you don't get measured by that. Whereas in drama, that's that's the whole point. Sometimes it's the kids with the really good grades that weren't so good actors, too careful or too worried about the results. At any rate, some of the kids that really surprised me were surprising to other teachers and maybe to their classmates as well, in that they did not expect said kid to be able to number one speak English, number two, memorize a long passage and get dressed up in costume and you know change their appearance and change all of that. So ironically, I think some of my best supporters at the school, in terms of people who thought English drama was important and belonged in the curriculum, were outside of the English department from other classes. One of my another example is this is uh the impact on a teacher. We were doing his his class, he was the homeroom teacher, was doing Hamlet, and they did quite well. And but it was the reaction of the homeroom teacher that was astonishing. Uh, he was deeply moved by the story and felt, you know, total surprise that the students that he was in charge of could do something so different and so special. Later, he showed me his smartphone and he had for his screen image, his home screen, he changed it to the famous painting of Ophelia drowning in the the water. He just was so impacted by Hamlet and his his students' production of it that he was saying, What are we gonna do next year? You know. And he wasn't an English teacher, this was a social studies teacher. So that conversion, if you will, taught me something about the power of narrative, uh, the power of imaginative circumstances to change students and to change audience members, to change the people for whom you performed.

Darren 12:47

And perhaps some of these students who are really shy, you know, maybe they see drama as a door opening. You know, you're opening up a door for them to express what they couldn't express about themselves before.

Kevin 13:06

But I think all of us who were stage struck in our youth, for me, it was finding home. I think in Japanese, you know, ibasho ga mitsukarimashita. I found I found the the good place. Finding a place where you can access that part of yourself that maybe you haven't been able to express any other way, or the part of yourself that you didn't like and suspected other people wouldn't like, but in the service of the script and service of the story, the character that you're portraying, you use that part of yourself. And if especially if it's affirmed, if people like it or applaud you, that's so deeply uh affirming of your personality.

Darren 14:01

So that which was hidden and kept down becomes a source of admiration.

Kevin 14:08

It certainly was what what happened to me, my first role of any consequence, was kind of a vicious parody of myself. I mean, that's I used all the parts of myself I didn't like. And I said, I know what I know what this kind of guy is like, because that's the way I am. And I used it, and it was a comedy, and so people were laughing and applauding and telling me what a great job I did and smiling, etc. And I went, I just used the worst part of myself, the part I don't like, and people liked it. I think I'm gonna stay here forever. I, you know, this is this is what I want to do for my life, you know, forget anything else. This is it, man. So based on my own experience, participating in drama can have that kind of life-changing impact. It doesn't work for everybody, but for some people it is a very, very meaningful transformative experience.

Darren 15:16

There's one topic I'd like to talk about for a short time, and that's this AI technology that's becoming very prevalent in our culture. And there's talk amongst people who are involved in it that it could end up replacing a lot of jobs in the very near future. So as an educator, I'm often kind of worried because I don't really know for sure what I should teach the students, what skills they need, or what content they require. So, in your view, is there something in drama or performance that no matter what happens with AI in the future, that the students who engage in it will be benefited in some way?

Kevin 16:12

Yeah. That's a hard one. As far as I know, AI hasn't taken over team sports. If you're playing soccer, AI might, I don't know what the applications are, but the actual bodies on the field, so far, we don't have androids out there, right? So far, it's real human beings that are engaged in the game of soccer or baseball or basketball. As I've said before, I think drama and team sports have a number of things in common. But drama is narrative, it's storytelling, it's character-revealing, and its goals are connected to human life and experience that humans have with each other. Sports is, you know, fine, but it's about getting balls through hoops or whatever target the game may have. Fictional characters that we live through as theater people, as actors, I think provide a kind of template or scaffold. They go through conflicts, hopefully, you know, like if you're a murderer or if you're, you know, a despot, tyrant, king, or you know, some of the characters in Shakespeare are like that. Those kind of life challenges, human-to-human interaction, drama can give you a kind of scaffolded way of experiencing those emotions and seeing how the fictional character dealt with that human problem, sometimes badly, sometimes in a good way. And those kind of conflicts, those kind of, you know, how am I dealing with power? How am I dealing with the loss of something that is dear to me? How am I dealing with difficulty with people I love? I don't know, but I think AI isn't going to be able to help you much with those problems as they actually happen in life.

Darren 18:27

I've often thought that, you know, even if the students are not learning as much English content as they might by, you know, learning English word lists, drama nonetheless creates a context or atmosphere which lowers the effective filter and allows more English to be learned naturally.

Kevin 18:47

It works on a number of different levels, on the on the on the linguistic level, exactly as you've just described it. And in terms of the content of what the drama is doing, or even some drama games and activities. There's actually a book called Drama Skills for Life that is popular in English, but it's also been translated into Japanese. The other interesting thing for people who are like us interested in performance in education, is there is a movement in Japanese education, actually at a high level at the Ministry of Education level, to put communication education into the curriculum itself. And actually it's drama people who are contributing the materials for that. So at least the Ministry of Education sees that the ability to communicate can be learned through drama activities. They don't maybe explicitly say this is a drama drama component to the new course of study, but in fact, that's what it is. The city of Toyoka in Hyogo Prefecture is a place I know that has actually put drama activities into its public schools, kindergarten through through junior high school. And they're hoping that that will be a model for other school districts around the country. In Toyoka, because there is the they have a drama festival in the city that's contributing to the kind of community development. So there's examples in everyday life of how drama is uh contributing to the town's livelihood. I think the support that that they have, it is more not top-down, but it is sort of coming from teachers.

Darren 21:04

Okay, Kevin, so for those listeners who are interested in reading some of the things you've written, what's the best way for them to engage with your work?

Kevin 21:14

Well, I can leave a kind of bibliography of material. And some things that I've written are online, and others are in the preparation stages, hopefully through our PIE SIG. Hopefully in the future, some of those might be available.

Darren 21:37

Okay, so sorry to interrupt you, but do you do you think there are any publications that you feel like every teacher should take a look at who's interested in PIE?

Kevin 21:46

Oh, yes. Well, one of the one of the problems, because I worked in publishing, I I know all about the economics of this. It's hard to keep these titles in print. Oh, really? Why is that? Well, in order to keep a Title in print, you have to sell X number of copies a year to keep it profitable. And if your first print run is 5,000 copies and it takes you four years to sell those 5,000 copies, the company isn't so motivated to do a reprint to keep it in print because it's well, that was worth about 5,000 across the country. And we don't think it's worth you know printing another 5,000. It might take 10 years to sell those. So maybe it's it's it's done its work. But certainly one of the classic pieces is called Pinch and Ouch, English through Drama. And that is by Yoko Nomura. And actually now her name is more familiar, Yoko Narajashi, who is one of the key people for English through drama here in Japan. So pinch and ouch should be available through used books, etc.

Darren 23:04

What level of student would that be most appropriate for? Literally anybody. And would it be a teacher resource or something that the students would use?

Kevin 23:13

Actually, I was the publisher for that book, and I can tell you that it was one of the best photocopied books out there, which which meant that you know the sale that contributed to it going out of print because teachers used it as a photocopy resource and didn't need to buy copies for their students. That's what happens. Gratefully, some publishers are now doing photocopyable books, so they they they design the book intentionally for photocopying. A title that, again, it's as far as I know, it's out of print, but it's actually called English Sketches, and a subtitled Sketches from the English Teaching Theatre. And it's on an elementary and uh intermediate level. The authors on that are Doug Case and Ken Wilson, and it's a photocopy book, and it's grammatically organized, so particular grammar items, with very amusing short skits that I've my the my students, my wise guys, always like them. They always they know it was fun and they enjoy doing it. So those are out-of-print books, but just a couple titles that are very useful. One is called The Drama Book by Alice Savage, and that's uh lesson plans, activities, scripts for English language learning. Another is called Enlivening Instruction with Brahma in Improv by Melissa Kahneman Taylor and Kathleen McGovern. Um Stage by Stage by Anne Burke and Julia C. O'Sullivan are, as far as I know, those are all books that are in print, as well as Doug Harrington and Charles LeBeau's Performance, Conversation Scenes for Everyday Life. So those are all uh books that are still available as far as I know, but get them while you can, because as I said, it's hard to keep drama English books in print because the audience is limited and uh publishing is if it's we're talking about book publishing is expensive. But if you use the internet, if you do a Google search for if you say short scenes for English language learning using the comparative, you might get some. And it's also possible our nemesis AI might be able to help you with, although I have no idea if AI has any wit to get give it instructed to say a skid for four people around this particular grammar point, lasting this many minutes, and make it funny, would you please?

Darren 26:28

Kevin, do you have any advice to teachers who would like to try drama or theater, but they really don't want to get into it too deeply with costumes and stage props and so on?

Kevin 26:39

It really depends on the level you're teaching and what kind of textbook you have. But usually these days, most English textbooks have some kind of dialogue which showcase the grammatical point or the notional functional point that you're trying to teach. The problem is they are often blazingly boring and not particularly lifelike. But having students act them out is one very, very, very low, low prep way. But I would recommend that you change the change the names and identities of those textbook characters. Actually, this is the David Paul technique, but give give them character names, for example, if they're everybody knows, most people know Sazai San or Draimon. Change the the characters in the the dialogue to specific characters from well-known manga, or ask your students, you know, who would you like who would be fun to have this dialogue with? You know, got Godzilla applying for a job would be more interesting than Mr. Smith applying for a job. Yeah. Or Harry Potter and his friends buying, you know, uh uh a hamburger at at McDonald's. I mean, if that's the functional thing that you're working on. And encourage students to say, okay, could you say it like Harry, or could you say it like Dumbledore? You know that would be a kind of easy way of getting your feet wet without having to create, you know, a new going to outside sources and bringing in extra prints and that kind of thing.

Darren 28:36

Kevin, we're going to wrap up now. It's been inspiring to hear your stories and insights. We've seen today that theater isn't just an add-on, it's a powerful way to connect, express, and really live the language. Thanks for sharing not just your experience, but your passion and vision.

Kevin 28:54

You're very welcome.

Darren 28:58

Thank you for listening. Until next time, stay focused and keep performing.