The Heart of Sales & Marketing

If you’ve ever felt uncomfortable with sales, or wondered why some sales conversations feel deeply human while others feel completely off-key, this episode is for you. Join Victoria as she reflects on a memorable early house-buying experience that perfectly illustrates what happens when sales forgets the person at the centre of the decision.

Victoria is joined by Marcus Elwell, author of The Heart of the Sale and sales coach to some of the UK’s leading six- and seven-figure entrepreneurs.

With decades of experience helping business owners sell with confidence, integrity and impact, Marcus brings a refreshing, values-led perspective on what truly drives trust and long-term success, and reflects on recovery from his brain tumour, and what that has meant to his outlook.

Together, they explore the real heart of sales, and why understanding people matters far more than scripts, stereotypes or pressure tactics.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why assumptions about your buyer instantly erode trust
• How poor listening damages both sales conversations and brand reputation
• The difference between selling at someone and truly understanding them
• Why empathy, curiosity and alignment sit at the core of effective marketing
• How the best sales experiences make people feel seen, safe and respected
• Why ethical, human-centred sales consistently outperform pushy tactics

If you want your sales and marketing to feel authentic, confident and effective, without compromising your values, this episode will fundamentally shift how you approach conversion.

Because the strongest sales don’t come from persuasion.
They come from connection.

Check out Marcus's book, "The Heart of The Sale" here.

Get Marcus's Sales Scorecard here

Grab free templates, checklists and guides at allstarmarketingclub.com/resources - everything you need to market smarter, not harder.

About Victoria: Marketing Coach & Trainer Victoria Vickery serves up marketing advice with fewer buzzwords, more belly laughs, and stories you’ll never un-hear... because memorable marketing starts with memorable lessons.

For More Tales, Tips & Tangents: @victoriav1ckery

Transcript

0:01

This episode is called the Heart of Sales and Marketing. Now, when I was in my early 20s, I decided that I was going to buy my own home. I was at this point a single lass and thinking, you know, let's be a bit adult here and go it alone. I had the deposit, so I checked out some of the local estate agents that were on the market. I popped into one in particular and I thought, it's an area that's probably in my budget and they've probably got what I need. So I chatted to a guy in there and he pulled, you know, in those filing cabinets, pulled the filing cabinets out, pulled out a few profiles of some of those houses and I agreed to go and see them with him. But better than that, he said he'd arrange all of it for me and he would personally drive me around each of them for the viewings. So we agreed a day, and I was to meet him at their offices and I jump into his car and set off. It was a BMW and I thought, oh, how jolly, vip. But in reality, not so much, because we got in his car and before the engine even warmed up, he lit his first of many cigarettes and cracked open the window. But not really enough to pass as, you know, acceptable ventilation. I have to say, never in my life have I ever been, you know, on a guided tour with passive smoking built into the mix. For free, of course. And it didn't stop there. It was view, smoke, view, smoke, view, smoke, the whole time, smoke. So when we pulled up at the first house and walked inside, he immediately said, oh, this is perfect for you as a party girl. Plenty of space to get wasted with your mates. That was the kind of vibe of it. Now, I was in my early 20s, yes, of course, but when I pictured myself in a house, I was thinking, nice meals, bottle of wine, a good old gossip with my friends. And even at that time, I'm thinking, well, actually, we'll go down Blockbusters and rent a film. So when we went to see the Second House again, he was a bit like, oh, this is ideal. It's walking distance from the pub, so you can stagger on back. And he almost said it like it was some kind of selling feature, which for some, I'm sure it absolutely would be. But again, as a single young lady, that wasn't really on my mind to, like, nip down the pub, have a game of pool and then, you know, stagger on home, half cut. So then we get onto the third house. Oh, you'd love living here. There's takeaways on your doorstep. And this was particularly entertaining because I've always been more of a home cooked meal kind of girl or a nice restaurant. Takeaways were, and they actually still are, an irregular event, not necessarily a lifestyle choice for me. I'm partial to the odd curry, don't get me wrong. But, you know, health's got to come first, right, so. And it came to a moment when we went into this house and yes, it had quite a nice garden. And he looked across the grass and announced, this would be perfect for a dog. You strike me as a dog person. Well, do you know what? I've never had a bloody dog. Not to this day. And here's the turning point. Every time I tried to say something that actually mattered to me when it came to purchasing a house. Storage. My goodness, you've got to have good storage, right? And I wanted to have a second bedroom for guests because I didn't fancy sharing with anyone. And I wanted to have space for books. I wanted coziness, I wanted security. You, I'm on my own. I wanted a lovely kitchen. But each time he'd interrupt and he'd say, yeah, yeah, but imagine just being able to stumble home from the pub with your bag of chips. And by the end of the afternoon, I was. I was pretty silent, to be honest, because I thought, what is the point in even speaking anymore? Not because I didn't know what I wanted. I was quite sure of what I wanted. I'm the kind of girl that knows what I want. But I felt like I lost my voice a little bit. I'd given up just trying to explain what I actually wanted because he had me all prejudged and basically I didn't buy the house. I didn't buy a house at all. In fact, I stayed living at home for a couple more years and I spent a good chunk of that deposit, rightly or wrongly. Don't judge me or do. On a car. That's what I did. A car that wasn't full of smoke. A car that didn't assume I wanted takeaway and chips for dinner every night. And it didn't have him in it, so even better. So what's that actually got to do with marketing? Well, in my eyes, great marketing gets someone curious and moves them forward step by step. But when it comes to sales, great sales, I believe, really helps people to see themselves in the decision that they're making. And it actually feels good. When a purchasing decision is being made, you walk away going, I feel really good about that. Not, oh, my God, what have I just done? And I think that for me, poor sales, especially when it comes to assumption based sales like this guy, it just shuts a buyer down and it shuts you down pretty fast because when you, when someone makes you feel like you're not understood, when you've been dismissed, you just disengage. In my experience, and that's me personally, you stop expressing what you believe really matters. You stop evaluating your own needs because you've just been shut down. And that is why I was really keen to get this guest in today. I'm so, so happy to introduce you to the one and only Marcus Elwell. He is sales trainer and coach extraordinaire and he's, he brings something genuinely refreshing to the world of sales. Now Marcus is the co founder of the Heart of the Sale. And after more than 25 years building and scaling businesses, including two that have actually reached seven figures, he now helps entrepreneurs and even bigger sales teams sell with confidence, with honesty and importantly with emotional intelligence. Now he's worked with some incredibly well known entrepreneurial groups and that includes Rob Moore's property team, it includes Jamie Stewart's Net Circle network. And what I love is that when Marcus teaches sales, it's never just about a script or the conversion rate that you might get because his work is rooted in like the inner workings because he knows from lived experience how much that actually mindset, identity and, and well being will influence your results. Now, several years ago, and we'll talk more about this when Marcus comes comes on, Marcus went through a life altering situation that actually forced him to completely reset not just physically but mentally and spiritually as well. And it's changed how he approaches success, how he actually sees pressure and how he supports people avoiding burnout. And it also led him to become an active supporter and fundraiser for brain tumor research, taking on major challenges to raise awareness and encourage people to look after themselves long before they're forced to. And I think it's fair to say that he's not just any old sales trainer. He brings so much depth into his work. He helps people sell without force and in more alignment with authenticity and with belief. Belief, belief is so important when you're selling because how can you possibly sell if you don't have the belief in who you are and what you're selling? So his philosophy, and we'll talk about again this in a little while, is captured beautifully in his book which is called the Heart of the Sale. And I'll make sure there's a link in the show. Notes for you, where he explores sales as an extension of your identity, your purpose and, you know, how you want to grow. But putting all of that aside for a second, that huge array of accolades. I personally know Marcus for the many deep and meaningful convos we've had over time. He gives the best hugs and he's only too willing to talk in weird accents with me throughout an entire conversation, which I both appreciate and I admire that someone else is as good at doing that as I am. So, ladies and gents, I think this conversation will really resonate deeply with you. Not just for those you wanting to sell better, but for anyone that's rethinking how they approach sales. Perhaps it's not going well for you right now, how you approach well being and how you show up in your business. So, Marcus, me old mate, welcome to the show. I mean, what an introduction that was. Mate, I'm not from Australia, but thank you so much, Victor. I mean, what a, what a. An introduction that was. And I hope I live up to all of those things that you've, that you've said. I'm very much looking forward to speaking with you over the next sort of, you know, hour or so and I've been very excited to come onto your amazing show. It's lovely to you again. Fantastic. So, Marcus, I'm going to kick off with a really important question before we get into all the sales nitty gritty, tell our viewers and listeners, what is it that truly makes a special hug? Oh, wow. Great, great question. So, yeah, I mean like everything, like making a cup of tea, there's always, everyone's got their own little, you know, formulas and things like that. So first of all, you have to hug heart to heart, meaning that you get the heart to the heart. So it's a left shoulder to the, to the left shoulder, the opposite one. So everybody just connects with the right side and, and you can't be cold victory like, you know, you know, you know that hug where you just meet somebody and they just give you that sort of half, sort of like you can't do that. You've got to go all in and you have to surrender. So you have a hug hug, you've got a hug. So you go all in, you just surrender into the process. I want to feel your emotion, want to feel your heart, want to feel your love. I don't want to see that. You know, I want you to be, feel comfortable enough to, to do that with me as well. So, so I love that. And you are, you are the best hugger and the best thing is there's not a stopping point, is there? You got to go for as long as feels good. Well, you've got to go for as long as it feels good. Obviously, you know, there is. There's obviously, if it's two minutes. Dreams. I was actually hugging somebody the other day. So I was at ceremony last weekend and. And I got acknowledged for my, you know, sort of service to sales in the industry and things like that, which was great. And actually somebody I've actually trained through my heart. The sale, actually one salesman of the year, which was incredible. So. But the reason why I was telling that story was that there was a lady again that had a lot of, like, I've helped her out a lot. We've had a lot of deep conversations, very similar to yourself and, you know, to you and I. And I'd never actually met her in person. We've actually spoke for about 18 months, have helped scale her business up online. And she just came over and we hugged them. We sort of. She got an amazing heart as well. And. And we sort of. Yeah, after about sort of 30 seconds, like, okay, perhaps this is literally. Stop there. So there is a moment. You stop. Unless obviously it's your beautiful partner, your girlfriend, your husband, your boyfriend, whatever. Obviously you can keep hugging for as long as you want. So. Amazing, amazing. So let's. Let's just go in and actually step back in time. Now. I really want to know what was your first ever experience of selling? You're obviously really, really kind of in it now. You're amazing at it. You teach others. But what was your first experience of selling? It's a great question. So I need you to picture the scene. So I'm driving in my white Rolls Royce convertible, okay? So I'm there. I've pressed my button. I've got the hood down. It's a beautiful summer's day. How old are we? I mean, like, I'm. I'm cruising at this stage. Victoria. Okay. But I'm. I'm. I'm five years of age, okay. So I've strapped my Paddington Bear into the. Into the seat next to me. Like, I've got seat belt. It's 1986, 85. Around that sort of, you know, summer of that year. And I'm driving on the patio outside, and I'm just. I've got no care in the world. I'm whizzing around. And my dad was like, you know, my dad was a toy salesman. So I was around a lot of toys when I was younger. So Christmas time was, like, incredible. I did believe in Father Christmas up until that year, actually, because my aunt. It's a different story, but my aunt told me it wasn't true. So I waited up and saw my dad doing all these prints. But anyway, getting back to the story. So I'm cruising in my white Rolls Royce, you know, not care in the world. I've got everything that I need. And I went into school that day with my new lunchbox, which my dad had got, which was a superhero lunchbox. So you got your. The drinks flask was like the handle, and it got two straps either side that connected to, like, the lunchbox bit underneath. So you'd unclip, drink your drink, and then you'd have your, like, sandwiches and your crisps and, you know, and your fruit and everything underneath. So I've gone into. Would it have been play school then? I' I think with five or whatever. Oh, you've been in the first year of school, wouldn't you? So, I mean, I'm in the first year of school and I'm like, literally walking and people like, I love your lunchbox, you know, Absolutely love it. So I was like, okay, cool. So I sort of went back that day, said to my dad, I said, look, you know, can you get me more of these lunch boxes? And he was like, yeah, of course I can. Like, you know, but he was buying them in bulk and selling them to, like, Woolworths and places like that at the time. So I was like, cool. Well, how many can you get? How many different things can we get? So I went back in the next day, spoke with all my other people that sort of said they wanted one, made a little note, found out how much they were for my dad. He was like, they're three pound each. I said, well, how do you make money? Like, what would I do? Like, how would I go back to the poop? And he's like, well, if you can double your money, that'd be good. So I remember going back in and I sort of said, well, it's 5.95 each. So then everybody. So I took them a little order and I came back, told all my friends, like, look, you need to come in with your. With your money from your mom. So it's all done on trust. It's like the next day they've come in, they've given their 5.95, I've given their lunchbox. There's all these different superheroes. And I was like. I said to my Dallas dad, like, how do they do like, girls. Ones was like, Barbie and he's the. Like, the mermaid. Yeah, yeah, we could do it. It's like, great. But there's equal amount of girls as there are boys as well. So then I asked all the girls. So by week one, I'd closed everybody in the first year, and by week four, the whole school had got these lunch boxes. Even the older years in my brother's year and, you know, everybody. And my dad. The reason why I'd actually forgotten that story, Victoria and I was when I was writing my book, although this story is not in that one, it'll be in the second one. I was chatting with my dad and I was like, we're just having a nice little conversation. He's not been very well the last few months, unfortunately, but we're chatting around. He was like. He said, I always remember that time when you sold all them lunch boxes. Because I used to drive home in my car and I would literally see all these kids in the local village with these lunch boxes. And the. The bit that I'd forgotten was that he said. He said, and I always remember it because it actually cost me money in the end. And I was like, what do you mean it cost you money? He said, well, we'd agreed a price and that was like, they were three pound each. That's what it was going to cost you. And you went off and made all this money, you know, you doubled your money. And I was like. You were like, five. Because I was like, what was I, Seven, eight, nine? He was like, no, no, honestly, you were in, like, the first year. He said, I remember you being five or six. And he said, like, you came back after about three or four weeks of all this money. And I turned around, you said, oh, Marcus, look, well done. But I've actually made a mistake. Those lunch boxes have cost a lot more because I brought them in bulk. I used to get a better price, but for you it was just like, you know, ad hoc individual ones. And he said, I needed more money off you. And you looked at me and you went, yeah, but dad, you've always taught me principles. And we shook on that. So you told me, three pounds, so that's a matter for yourself. And he said, I remember internally sort of going, I can't believe, my little lad, that he sort of like shook around and went, yeah, you're right, that's on me. And he said, I always remember it because I say it cost me money. But the principle was, I'd always taught you shake on it. You look at each Other in the eyes, you agree your price and that's it. So I couldn't go back on it. So, yeah, that was my first story inside. What a story. That is amazing. You were meant for this, weren't you? That's. That's incredible. So there's probably a high percentage of entrepreneurs that are out there, and actually, to a certain extent, quite a lot of people just sitting in sales roles and they feel uncomfortable with selling. And I know I did many years ago. And let's be honest, often their reference point, point is, you know, dodgy car sales people or pushy and aggressive tactics that have been thrown at them and those moments where it feels like you're actually really being persuaded by something that you really might not even want to be honest. So when that's your kind of mental image of what a salesperson is, I feel like it's no wonder that people actually take a step back from it and almost detach from, you know, the responsibility in their business to sell. So they just do nothing. Now, I know that's not your style, of course, and you teach sales in a way that is absolutely not pushy or it's not forcing people along, but how do you help people to reframe what's going on there in their mind so that sales actually feels more comfortable for them? It's more natural and perhaps, well, perhaps even a little bit enjoyable because quite often, and I hear it a lot, people feel like, you know, sales makes them want to curl up in a ball and hide away a bit like I used to. So have a little chat about that. How do you reframe all of that? So it does feel a lot more comfortable. Great question. So, first of all, there's many sort of, you know, levels and layers to that, but the first thing I sort of get people back to is that we are all salespeople. So I deal with a lot of coaches, a lot of business owners, a lot of entrepreneurs who just don't like the idea of selling for the exact same reasons that you just mentioned. So I always sort of ask them the question, which is, you know, and I'll ask you here. So we're doing it. But can I ask a question? Do you like to buy things? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, we all do. So for me, it's like, so we all like to buy things, but we don't like feeling sold to. So what's that. What's that sort of bridge that we have to look at, which is. It's then the processes and it's the Thought and the mindset around it. A lot of these things is always how you, how you feel about sales yourself. So I, I take people back to, let's get really molecular and deep. You know, the very world that we're from, the very earth that we're from is made up of gold, silver, diamonds, emeralds, you know, so the very like molecular makeup of our DNA, our structure is value. You know, we are from, you know, we're from that world, you know, so when we don't fear that and when we understand that, you sort of like if we go back to the very beginning that we tried a goat for, you know, for pigs and, and you know, just that's how we traded. So there was always that in us. And then I always say, go back to when you were a child. And like for me in that instance with that, with that story around the lunchboxes, my result was like, I just wanted to see everybody have a smile on the face and if I could like make money at the same time, well, then that's like the, that was, it's a win, win scenario. So whatever it is that you're doing in life, whatever you're selling, whatever your product or service is, it's your, you know, it's your responsibility to serve people at a level where you ask great questions, you listen intently to the, to the answers that you're getting. But the, the, the on top of that, I'm often listening to the answers that people aren't giving me and because what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to understand their belief system around why they're not moving forward with me or why they're staying stuck or why they're not getting sales in their business, you know, so I'm trying to understand what's the real truth behind it. What experience have you had before that you link into all of these other experiences which is stopping you, like take that next step and moving towards me. And I'm only going to get there, Victoria, by asking you questions and really understanding you. If I just try and sell you, then I'm out. Like, you're, like, you, you've disconnected from me. You're going to go back into your fear, you know, reaction. I call it the monkey brain, the sort of, you know, the fight or flight brain, you know, where you just think I'm being sold to. I've shut down, I'm closed, I'm not listening. Yeah, a little bit like the example I, I mentioned earlier about the guy trying to, you know, sell me a House. It's. Yeah, it. It does absolutely close you off. So, thinking about some of those questions, what's a really good way of working out what those questions actually are for your audience? Yeah, so, you know, I'm always in my earliest stage when I'm talking to people. I've got a process. And again, without plugging my book, it's not about plugging that at all. But, you know, I have got a framework that helps you navigate through a conversation. And that took a while for me to bring together because I did it naturally. I'm not somebody who would say, you know, you must have a script, you must go through it, but if it's, if it's new to you and you want to learn the art, I've actually, I actually like, you know, with AI was filming myself every time I was having a conversation, and there is a process. So initially I always go from a curious perspective because if I can't serve you, if my product's not for you, I don't want you as my customer. Yeah, that's it. It's that simple. So I'm always prepared for a no. I'm always going for no. If you like, I'm always going for. I'm going to push you and ask you and question you. And I really want to understand that, wherever you are. So whatever your pain point is, does my solution solve it? And if it does, then it is like my complete, like, responsibility. It's critical, it's crucial, whatever word you want to use, for me to get you to move forward to me, because I will get you that result. So often when I'm coaching companies, like individuals, I'm like, you know, how much do you believe in the thing that you do? You've got to get like, all. Are you all in on what you do? Are you living proof of the thing that you're saying that you're doing? Are you doing that? Because if you're not, I'm going to feel it, I'm going to hear it. And in this day of AI, like, look, I'm not for or against it. Like, AI is amazing, but the one thing that AI is now doing more than ever is created even more confusion. And the human is craving humanness. And you know what, is this going to go full circle? It's not a conversation for today, but I definitely feel that, that we're seeking out authenticity all the time now because really difficult in the world of AI to get that. And that is where that human to human conversation will win out, because you can't do that with AI So, you know, this makes sales even more important and even more of a skill that. People have to know about 100 and. And so the, the thing for me is this, if you're not all in on your thing, then don't expect to shift the person in front of you to buy your thing. So, like, you know, often when I'm speaking to people, it's like, what's your mission? What's your passion? What was your desire? Why did you get into this in the first place? Tell me more. You know that question. If you're for anybody out there, that line, tell me more is, you know, it gives you chances as the business owners, the salesperson, just to sit back, listen, tell me more about that. Victoria. Now I wanna, I wanna understand more about you. Why did you get into marketing? You know, what pushed you into that? What's your desire? You know what, what was your mission when you started? And I'm listing out for all those things. I wanna, I want to open you up because I care and I want to understand your business because I want to see lots of things. You know, am I aligned to you? Can I help you? Is this somebody I want to take on? Because look, here's the kicker for everybody out there. You don't have to close people all the time like good salespeople. We don't. I don't go in to close everybody. In fact, my strap line is, you know, real success doesn't come from closing a sale, it comes from opening a relationship. So if you in your business now, in, in your sales, you know, if you've got a sales team, if it's, you just keep opening relationships, keep opening doors, keep talking to people. And when you're in the moment, when you're in the flow, that's where the conversation just leads to, okay, yeah, I could get this person result, you know, then you can, you know, see how you can help them then. Then you've, you know, using stories, using testimonials, then you can shift them towards you if you try and sell. Like, if I get online, here's one for you. Here's one for you. How Many people on LinkedIn just reach out to you and just sell you? Like, how many time? Yeah, loads. Like, does it drive you crazy? Yeah, it depends, doesn't it? There's some that come through and you think, oh, I love that angle. That's really cool. But most people, 95, 99% of everyone that comes through, you think I'm not. Even answering, but they just picture so they just like, it's like, Simon, if you go to a networking event or you go into a poor sales environment, they just like verbal diarrhea you when they see you. It's like, I do this, I do that. It's like going back to your conversation earlier with the house. It's like you haven't even asked me any questions. You haven't worked out, do I like drinking to then make that statement about drinking? Because if you'd have found that out, then when you use that, that would be a sell point, wouldn't it? But like, you haven't. You don't know me to say that. Don't go for the kill like wine and die me first. You know what I mean? So not in a sleazy way. I don't mean it. It's from an authentic way. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I think, you know, one of the things that you've just picked up on there is not everyone's your customer. And you get, you get to choose, don't you? You can choose who you do and don't want to work with as much as who you're wrong and right for. So that's something that's, you know, something that we all should be taking on board now just thinking about. And a lot of this boils down to mindset, a lot of this stuff. But I also want to tackle here identity and also self worth of people that are actually doing the selling, especially when it's your own business because they directly influence conversion rates. And I just want to unpack that a little bit. Now you don't have to kind of go all in here, but I just would love to get a bit of an overview from you on your thoughts around that and if you're open to maybe share some of your story around identity and mindset and self worth. Yeah. So for me, you know, great, again, great question. So for me it goes back to like who you are and how you're turning up. So as a human being, for me, like, first of all, you've got to be your best self. So like what I realized, you know, you touched on it earlier on when, when you opened up the podcast here today, that I went through a really life changing scenario a few years ago and I had to build myself up from the ground up, you know, from the inside out. And like over the years I've built businesses for myself and I've helped other people, but I was always sort of like I was unconsciously thinking about what I was doing. So I wasn't, I Didn't. I wasn't aware of what I was doing. And sometimes I'd be like, doing really well. And then all of a sudden I'm sort of like not, you know, so for instance, I'll be going to the gym more and I'll be eating better, drinking better, thinking better without realizing that's what I was doing. And then I'd be doing all right. And then all of a sudden I'm not. I'm like, what am I doing? You know, to be. All those things have crept back in. So. So first of all, for me, it's fundamental that you as a, as a human being have a routine, a structured routine. And that was something that I didn't have for most of my career up until the sort of like the last few years. And it's just catapulted, you know, who I am, what I do, how I affect people around me. Because again, as I say, if you're in front of people in your business and you're stressed and you're, you know, slightly depressed and you're frustrated and you're, you know, you're not vibrating at a level that attracts people, then no wonder it's not going so well for you because, you know, you've got to be. For me, it's like, is just hand in hand with anything you're doing. You know, there has to be a process place where you are, you know, connected to yourself. So for me, I've got a routine in the mornings that is non negotiable. And what that looks like for you is, is personal to you. But what I did do when I was, you know, healing from my, you know, shoot out my brain tumor is, you know, I studied humans at a real deep level, you know, and I've studied all the greats in whatever it was they did, whether it's female or male. I just sort of looked at, you know, whether it was a marketing agency like yourself. What's she doing differently to everybody else? What's, you know, what's Tony Robbins doing different to everybody else? What's like Novak Djokovic doing to everybody? You know, why is he great and then getting better? What are they doing, you know, and what's their desire? And, and everybody got the fundamental thing that everybody had got in common. You know, take the serene, the Williams sisters in tennis. They were all really intentional about being intentional, meaning that they didn't leave anything to hope or chance or 50, 50 decisions. It was like, okay, I want to be this version of myself. So what things do I need to do daily in order to achieve it. So they, before they went to bed at night, they're visualizing like how their day went, what they need to do tomorrow. So the last, I always say to people, look, you know, whenever I speak to people, it's like, I've got, I've got no time. Got no time, got no time. Okay, great. So I always say to people, look, would you work with me if I could get you like 10 minutes a day? Like if I could get you 10 minutes a day, is that something you'd like? Think that, you know, that you take that strong 100%. So great. Well, I'm going to get you that. So that's 10 minutes a day, which then if you compound it over a week, it's 70 minutes. So 140, you know, it's two, 290 minutes a month. I'm going to get you. How does that sound? Sounds amazing. How we're going to do it, how we're going to do it is this. The first five minutes in the morning you're not going to pick your phone up and the last five minutes of the day you're not going to look at your phone. I'm going to get you 10 minutes. That's how easy it is. Just stop doing that. Can you do that for me? Like, well, yeah, I think I can say great, so let's start there and in those five minutes. So that's, that's a 1%, I call it the 1% revolution. Okay, so then you start there. Everybody listening to this can, you know, stop there for like looking at a phone for five minutes at the night, at the end of the day and in the morning. So now we've got you 10 minutes. Now in those 10 minutes, how do we make those as impactful as we can? Because if I say to you today, if your little white lies to yourself are, I've got to go to the gym more and I've got to eat better and I'm drinking too much wine. I'm not going to ask anybody to stop doing that today because it's too much of a jump. But if we start with little 1%, then in 90 days time is it much easier to go to the gym for an hour or not drink that bottle of wine on a Monday night? Because now you start, it's called putting the discipline, getting the discipline muscle working. So like these are little 1%. So five minutes at either end of the day. Then in those five minutes start visualizing how did my day go today? How did I turn up, was I the version of myself that I tell myself in my head and like, more often than not, you got to be real with yourself here. You got to look in the mirror because you're not going to like the answer. You know, like that Michael Jackson like, you know, start with the man in the mirror. You know, it's, it's, you know, you've got to look and stare at it and go, okay, am I those things like get out the way of the white lies because we've got our ego protecting ourselves. How did you show up? And then look at how you showed up and then what impact you had. And is that the same impact you want to have tomorrow? Because if it is, keep doing the same thing and then in 90 days time, whatever you are will be the same. Or do you want to make some change? Do you want to start getting better sales, better marketing into your business? Okay, what do I need to do? Who do I need to study? Who do I need to get around? Start reading about the people that are making an impact and making a difference and are at the top of their game. You know, when I say at the top of the game, no one's ever cracked it, ever, you know that we're in business. And also if you're looking at people at the top of the game, they might be way too far ahead. Like come down to the person that's just ahead of you and then once you get there, you can go to the next person that's just ahead of you. So you can just work your way up and you know, as they say, success, success leaves clues. And if you're following on the people that are leading and doing really well, then you're onto something, aren't you? 100 and just, just by creating that energy and that intentional thought process, now you're leveling the game up. Now you're starting to think about what you're thinking about. So then you can start going, okay, so what, what have I been thinking about so far that's not been serving me? And it might be, but I don't see myself as a salesperson because I had a really poor experience when I was 22 and. But, well, actually I am a salesperson because, you know, has there ever been a time where you tried to sell your husband on a holiday or a handbag or a dress or, you know, of course you have. We all have an eye. But you know, whatever floats your boat, you know, but yeah, and the kids are coming at you, I need this. And they so look it's it's, it's in it. We are salespeople, naturally, okay? We're supposed to be. So now what you've got to do is find your congruency level, your authenticity level, whatever it is that you're doing, you should be the living embodiment of it, okay? And then you shift people towards you if you can solve their situation. And if you can't, here's the power, here's the magic. Recommend somebody in your community that can solve their problem, because what happens there is you build even deeper trust. They're a customer for life, even if they don't buy a few there. And then they'll still talk about how amazing you are, you've still provided a great service, and when they are ready for you, they'll come back. There's always a win there, isn't there? If you can just. You don't always have to make the sale. Think about, you know, what are the alternatives? Can you give them a bit of advice? Can you recommend them on someone else? What can you do for them that leaves them feeling like they've left with something more? Yeah, absolutely, because they're your biggest fans. And, you know, the amount of business I've done with people that didn't buy from me initially has been astronomical. It's led to amazing opportunities and business deals because I've just given them a level of service where they've gone, hey, I really like that guy. Didn't try and sell me. You know, Germany listened to me, understood what I was trying to achieve. He wasn't the solution, but he had somebody that was. And they recommend, you know, three people in their community that. That do need my service. Because again, the other thing that a lot of people don't do when they've had that type of conversation with somebody and then couldn't serve them, is they don't ask them. I know it hasn't quite worked out for us right here, right now, but who do you know that I need to know? Like, who's in your phone book, your immediate, you know, business arena that actually does need my service? And people go, oh, wow, great question. Actually, you know, I had one, you know, use an example. I had one last year where I was doing some consulting for another company, and I used that exact line, and it led to his business partner who did, like, sort of do some similar thing to what it was that we were, you know, trying to sell effectively, which led to a door being open for this company that I was consultant for that led to, you know, a Six figure contract, like immediately. And that was all from a cold call and asking questions and finding out about them and then actually saying, okay, fine, not right for you right here, right now, but do you know anybody that does do my thing? It was like great questions. No one asked me that. Here's, here's a contact. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, no, that is absolutely great. I can, I can just see or visualize, should I say, all of these little light bulbs going on in all of the people's heads that are listening and watching us right now because there's some, you know, some amazing stuff that on the face of it feels quite obvious. But it's not until you actually hear it where you go, wow, that is, that is going to make such a big difference. So while we're on this kind of subject and we've touched a bit on Mindset there, let's just have a little chat about pricing because I think that's also got a lot to do with mindset because there'll be people that are way undercharging and they're probably afraid to raise their prices. Perhaps they feel like that's going to make them lose clients. Perhaps they feel like they're not going to win the deals if they do that. What's going on behind the scenes there with people that are feeling that way about their prices and not really charging perhaps what they're worth and you know, what can we do to help them with that? Move through it. I mean, all amazing questions and I'm smiling here for people that can't see me smiling because I had two coaching sessions this morning with clients exactly around that, that, that very subject. And it comes down to self belief, it comes down to like, how can I charge that amount? You know, that's, you know, because we, you get used to whatever you get, you know, whatever it is that you're doing, you know, whoever you're around. So again, going back a little, a few little segments is like if you want to be better at sales, get into a sales community, get around people that are slightly above you, much further ahead, you know, a little bit below you because it starts opening yourself up to, oh, okay, so that person's charging that. Well, I did the same thing as them, so I should be charging that. So it's just getting around people that are doing those things. So the conversation we had this morning, I don't know if this is going to answer the question or not. So I always say to people, try and visualize a ladder. Okay, so like, you know, currently, wherever you are, let's say you're at the bottom of that ladder from a pricing perspective. So let's just say your child, you're a Coach, you're doing one to one sessions and you're charging 50 pound an hour. Okay, which way is where I started, by the way. So you know, at the time, I think no one's going to pay 50 pound an hour, you know, so you start there at the bottom of the rung and then, you know, you do a few months of that and you realize you're just giving out a lot of time, a lot of energy and you're seeing all these other people charging a £thousand and £150. How are they doing that? But the difference between how they're doing that and, and how you're not doing it is they just charge that amount of money. They just realize decision. And they went, okay, well actually I'm, you know, and look, there is a slight process to this. I always say to people, sometimes you have to, you know, you know, a lot of people want to earn their stripes and you all know this as well as I do. There's a lot of people in industries that profess to be up here and charge those prices, but actually they're not. They've got no more experience than you or I or anybody else because they're, here's the kicker for everybody, they're just another human being. We're all just the same. We come from the same, the same minerals, the same earth, the same, you know, whatever it is you believe in. The source, the oneness, God, creative. We all come from the same things. We're all the same. No one's better, no one's worse, no one's above you, no one's below you. And that's how I've always been. So first of all, treat everybody as you would treat yourself. And, and, and just, you know, finding that value on yourself is well, what's the difference, as I say, between them charging that and you? Not just a belief system. So for me it's like, look, you're at the bottom rung. So let's say the top of the, of this particular mindset you're currently in is 150 pound an hour. Be amazing for you. And then if you like put a structure in place, right, I'm going to start changing my prices. You may lose some people, that's fine, okay. But then you're going to level up to the next rung where there's people in that room that will pay that amount of money for your service. So it means you just get yourself more self worth. You start to believe in yourself. Then you get to the next level and, and now you're 150. And by the way, and again, you'll know this, Victoria, when you get there, you realize, oh, there's, there's more levels to the more, there's more. Wrong way. More levels, way more levels. And then you could change it to sort of, you know, I'm using a coaching example here, but it's the same in any business. Then you've got, you know, there's, there's different ways to, to climb the mountain. So rather than one to ones, I shifted it to one to many charge the same amount. All of a sudden I've got more time. Because the one thing that everybody says I've got no time to, like, I've got no time, I need to get my time back. So it's how you leverage all of that, isn't it? And I think, you know, when it comes to pricing, one of the, one of the key things that I always say to my clients is, look, start somewhere. And what we're doing is we sell at that price and then we get the evidence. You get the evidence of how you've helped people, the results they've got, the testimonials, the case studies and all of that jazz. And then once you've got that and other people start to see it instantly, it lifts your belief in what you do, but it also lifts the belief of others because they can see the social proofing and those that have gone before that you've helped. So I think that goes hand in hand. And as you say, then you can start thinking about leveraging different types of offerings and propositions to. Yeah, to free up time, get more money. Yeah, exactly. So. So it's just a belief system that ultimately as you get up the ladder, it just changes. So I always say that, you know, no matter where you are on that ladder and no matter where you are in the process, you'll get to whatever you think is unreachable. And then you get there and it's like emptying the bath plug and all of a sudden you're empty. Like, well, I'm here now, so actually I can do all the things that I said that I can go again. So, so what's the next level? Because as a human, you always want to get to that next level, next level, whatever that looks like for you in your business, in your world. And then you just realize that. So what I'M trying to say in this bit is, no matter where you are and no matter who it is, I promise you, they all have imposter syndrome at whatever level they are. Even the king will have imposter syndrome sometimes when he's got to, like, you know, have Donald Trump in, you know, there'll be. Or whatever, you know, whatever it is, there'll be moments where he's going, am I really going to just, like, have this king and queen? And I'm going to do. Yeah. No matter where it is you are in life, there'll be levels to the game. There always is. So don't think that anybody else has got it figured out or cracked or 100% now. They're just another level and you can get on that level as well. So it's a case of taking that first step at the ladder. Yeah, absolutely. And look for the evidence, because it's there. You just need to look for the evidence and believe in yourself. Like, how did you get to where you are? You've earned your stripes, so, you know, keep going. Yeah, yeah. So just thinking back to reflecting on what I said a little bit earlier, Marcus, I mentioned that you've worked with Rob Moore's property team. We mentioned Jamie Stewart, Circle Network, and I know that you have worked really closely with Andy Harrington in your current business. Of course. So. So looking kind of collectively at all of the work that you've been doing with all of those sales teams and entrepreneurs, of course, as well, what traits do you see in those people? And, you know, what is it about them that is making them succeed more quickly than others? I know we've touched on quite a lot of that already, but if you were to kind of go, right, top three things, this is it. Yeah. So, well, first of all, they invest in themselves and they invest in people around them. So. And that's key. So, you know, all the people that you just mentioned, then there's some, some other people that I'm working with, you know, industry leaders in their field, and they're, they're, they're getting people like me in to. They're always leveling up. So they've already got, like, you know, you mentioned Rob, so, you know, they've already got a really good business and they could easily just kick back, you know, and just, you know, go, and, right, I'm doing, I'm doing all right, but they're always looking for that little 1%. So that's the key thing in all of this, which is why I went, you know, talk about the 1% revolution is no matter where you are, what one thing can you add to it, improve the situation? And sometimes it's actually taking one thing away. So it might be that you've got a bad habit that's creeped in, might be a thinking loop that's not serving you. It might be that you're not making as many calls as you were before or going to as many networking meetings because you've got a bit complacent. So that's what I mean about holding the mirror up. So all of these people fundamentally are looking in the mirror, meaning they're going, okay, what do I need to do to get that next tweak? That next 1%? Who do I need to bring in? Who do I need to learn from? What impact do I need to get? You know, so that, that I say that. So the fundamental thing for me is they always looking and searching for the next thing. They're not just sitting back and getting complacent. Because again, as you know, as soon as you do that, whether that's in business, whether that's in life, things start to go the other way, don't they? They do. And again, your energy is not there, is that? Is it? So we've had this conversation on many occasions about energy. And if you just let things fall and it takes your kind of mindset down with it, your energy is on the wrong level and nothing good comes of that. You know, it's like, for, like, bad energy brings more bad energy. Great energy brings more great energy. Yeah. So, yeah, you only get, you only get that from being your true self. And that's why, going back to what we said earlier, the more little 1% you can do to shift towards being your true self, the better, because we're all just behind a lot of white lies. So you, you know, like, I'm gonna, you know, I've already said going to the gym, drinking less wine, eating less food, I'm gonna make more phone calls, I'm going to go to that network. And the more times you don't, the more time your fight or flight is running you, ruling you, which then allows you to just stay in fear and stay in stuck mode because you don't want to actually face up to the music that you're not doing, the things that you should be doing, that's going to help elevate you. So that's what I mean about doing the 1% and actually shifting that. And the more truer you get to yourself, the more, the more that you vibrate at A higher energy at a higher level. And the more that your world and your path just start becoming that version of you that you did dream of. So I always say go back to like the 9 year old version of you. Not what did that look like? You know, because there was no BS in the way, there was no stress, there was no mortgage, there was no all those things. But so go back to that nine year old version. What version were you? And more often than not, it was love and light. It was energy, happy vibration, you know, just running around. That air in your hair, you know, just like just smiling, just full pelt, full. Or call it all in. You're just all in. Yeah, there's no like, there's no little grave thing over here or black thing. Oh, you can't do this. You're not good enough to. You are just all in. We're all in love. That, that's the version, Victoria, sorry. That you are destined to be. So if you, the more you can get back to your trueness and connect to that, the more you're going to live that destined life that you want. So much coming out of that. Think about the 1%. Hold the mirror up to yourself. Think about your 9 year old self. There's so many little gems in there. Like we're gonna all have to listen back to this episode several times to kind of get those bits of gold back out. It's brilliant. So let's have a little old chat about well being because we've spoken about it quite a lot throughout this episode. Well being, it's burnout and the impact of those things on business performance. Because I know that you're a massive advocate for mental well being and you've lived consequences. You, you, you've been through it. What do you think? What's that one thing that business owners don't realize about their mental state and what impact that kind of has on sales. Or to put it another way, you know what's going to happen when they do stay in that stuck place that you mentioned, you know, where something's quite off with the health, but you just keep pushing on regardless. Well, look, I haven't got a crystal ball in all this, so I can only use my own vert, my own story in this, in, in, in, in, in a way of answering this. So, you know, myself, I had a retail business and in 2019, I wanted to get out of it. In 2012, in 2019, I'm still there. I'm not doing all the 1%. I'm just pushing through. I'M stressed, I'm frustrated, I'm angry. Deep down inside, I'm not the version of myself that I want to be. I don't want to stare in the mirror long enough to see the reflection, to own up to the fact that I'm not any of the things that, that, that I, that I destined to be or thought about. I wanted to be. And I was broke. I was broken physically, mentally. I was, I wasn't just. I was exhausted, you know? You know, so for me, you know, I was waking up with that anxiety ball on your chest, on your stress around your neck. I don't know if anybody understands that. I'm sure many people do. They do. Yeah. So, look, I want people to know, look, you know, I'm living proof that you can get through that. And I'm also somebody I'm not just trying to tell you to do these things with without any sort of substance behind it. And I'd actually got to the point, Victoria, that I was ready to chuck the towel in. So I was literally like dreading going to work. I was dreading coming home. I was in a, you know, a loveless relationship and I had been for many years. And we have three beautiful kids that I share, so I've got no regrets around that. But, but I was broken. And so in answer to your question, for me, if you don't fundamentally get these things right, it can lead to that frustration to, to just hitting the bottle more. Because the more that you, the more that you don't live your destined self, your true self, the more that you don't tap into, you know, your well being and understanding that from a, from a really deep level, the more your monkey rage, as we taught before. And what that means is you just stay in fight or flight and you just do more of what you're doing, meaning more of the drinking, you do more of the bad habits, you do more of the bad thinking. And until I got aware of that with myself, you know, when, when you start thinking about the, the, the actual things that you're saying to yourself in the quiet times, so that's when you start thinking about what you're thinking about. That wasn't a good chat that was having. I didn't realize, but it was, it was chat that was like, you're not good enough. Who are you? You know, who do you think you are? You know, all these things I was like, that's my loop. That's the record that I've been playing. And that, that affects you that like just on a really deep molecular sort of level, you know, like in that just affects your energy and it brings you down. So then no wonder, when I looked at my business wasn't doing very well and my relationships around me weren't doing very well, the relationship myself wasn't very good. I was like, well, no wonder, because I'm not, you know, the things that I'm telling myself internally are not good. So your brain and your body will believe what you tell it. So it's really critical that you tell it the right things and you do the right things. So you can't tell it one thing and then do the other. That means you've got to be aligned. So you've got to, like, be telling it the right things but then doing those right things. And as you compound those, then, you know, then that's when I say that in 90 days, whatever it takes, 21 days to form a habit, 66 days for it to be an autonomous habit, meaning it just becomes Automatic, and then 90 days for you to be that version of yourself. So all of this is work. So, like, if you listen to this podcast because you want to, you know, you want to just get a quick fix, then like, sorry, it's the wrong thing, you know, it's 90 days of work, but then you're that version. So then when you get there, then you can level up again and never again. So the initial bit is doing the work. Yeah. So when you think about that, imagine what is achievable in a year if you level up every 90 days. Imagine what you could get to in a year if you just knuckle down right. Now the other thing, just to touch on there, because it's about, well, being burnout and that kind of thing, but that's going to have a massive impact on the performance of the business. And, you know, we're talking sales today, but also. So it has an impact on sales, marketing, finance, the people that you're working with. It has a profound impact all around on a business. But look, let's talk about sales, because that's your thing. So, you know, how does that manifest in sales if you are below par? Well, you don't. You don't you don't attract the right people. You don't attract business people, don't want to buy from you because you're not. You're not magnetic, you're not. You're not. You're not somebody that draws people in and you're not living the very thing, you know, for, for me, I'm selling a heart Based sales process which fundamentally is just like you being your true authentic self and getting out of the way of your bullshit. So just get out of way, get out of the way of all this limiting self belief doubts that you've got around yourself and around your service. Shift them out your way. So I help you understand that process, get out of the way of yourself, charge the value that you should be and more importantly, deliver that message, that product, that service, that version of you that you, you, you want them to be, you know, from, from that level. So if you're not those things, if you're at a low energy, as we've already talked about, if you're not, you know, if you're not living that version of yourself, then you know, your sales aren't gonna, you know, your sales are not gonna be there either. And as we all know, if you've got no sales, your mindset's rubbish. And if you've got no mindset and you've got no sales, then everything starts going that way pretty quickly, you know, and it can spiral. So it's, it's, it's not just like, this isn't like something you should do. This is essential. Like it is, you know, I know I've used this word. It is critical that you put this in place because I want to help as many people be their best versions so that they can put, they can serve as many people in their business and their service as physically possible so that when they get to the end of their journey, they can look back and smile and go, I live the day. I lived the version of myself that I was destined to live, that I should brother. You know, I mean, I mean that like I, you know, I hear this on different podcasts, but it was something that, you know, I, I got there when I was healing and I wasn't guaranteed the next second, the next minute, the next hour. So you have to get really present. So here's probably going back to something that people can do that, that gets them, you know, 1% pretty quickly in the mornings because we skirted over this is get really grateful for what you have got, for who you are. Be really like, start your morning in that first five minutes now that you've, I've just gained your five minutes because you're not looking at your phone with being grateful. And for me it was, oh, I can move my hands, I'm alive, I've got three beautiful kids. Whatever that is for you or however small it is, it's good. You know, what do you know what One of the things, so I started doing that every morning, just doing a little bit of a 10, 10 things that I'm grateful for. And when I first started doing it, I found it really hard because you feel like you should be grateful for, you know, these massive, great big things that you've got in life. But it would come down to, I'm grateful, I'm so grateful to sit here and have a cup of tea in a warm house. And it's amazing that you, you know, when you actually think about what you're grateful for, it is just sometimes the simplest of things, just hearing little footsteps on stairs and, you know, all of those wonderful little things. And when you start actually connecting with what you're grateful for, it really does raise the energy, doesn't it? 100%. So they're just like, like 100%, you know, put your hand on your beating heart and breathe into it. And I do it now. If you're not driving your car, feel the beat of the heart, you're not, you know, I don't want to get morbid at this stage, but there's a million people around the world tonight will go to sleep and they won't wake up tomorrow. That's just the stats. So like, and I guarantee, I always say to people, I could guarantee you, no matter how you're feeling at this moment, if I could wake any one of them up tomorrow, God rest their souls, tomorrow, and say, hey, like, whatever you were going through or whatever you think you're going through, do you want another crack at this? They would all snap your hand off. And all of them, if I could also ask them the same question, say, look, what would you do different? They just be like, I'd get out the way of myself, I'd stop worrying about what other people think and I'd just go all in. I'd play all out. Because the truth is, Victoria, I, I haven't had any evidence that would like suggest this is any different. I haven't met anybody who's lived this life and then come back, okay, so this is it. So you can either be the half assed version of yourself that you keep pretending that you, that you want to be and you're not, or you are, or you could just be the version that you were destined to be and it just starts today, just little 1% to start moving in that direction and watch the compound effect. And in 90 days time, and as you said, in 12 months time, you won't even recognize yourself. But I guarantee when you look in the Mirror. You'll be smiling at yourself and you'll be smiling from a place of love, from contentness, because you will be that version that you. That you wanted to be. And your bank account will look better and your friendship to be better and your relationship with your partner will be better, with your kids will be better. And I had a conversation the other day, taking it away from, you know, all this with one of my best friends and he rang me and he said, mate, I've really let myself down this morning. I said, tell me more. And he was like, oh, you know, I've dropped my lads off today and they're only young, they're like 5 and 7 and. And he's in a bit of a rush and it's raining and he, and he ran off and he, and he, and I told him if he runs off, he's going to fall in the mud. And he did. And he said, I got really frustrated. I didn't shout at him, so. But I just sort of like, I just, I was short with him and I was. And I was annoyed with him and I was like. And he said, I'm really, I feel really bad. And I went, listen, the fact that you've rang me up to have this conversation tells me everything I need to know. Like, it's all, like, we're all human and we all mess up. But the fact that he's consciously aware of how he reacted and, and all those things, I was like, look, it's an easy fix, this, right? He's seven years of age. When you pick him up from play school tonight or school or whatever it is, just tell him what you've just told me. Just be real. Just don't, don't sugarcoat it with like, I'm going to apologize. Apologize for what? He doesn't understand it. Tell him why you did what you did. Tell him he was straight. Tell him all the things I was rushing. It's not your fault. But what I do want you to know is this. I love you with all my heart and I'm so glad that you're my son. So I'm sorry for the way I reacted. These are the reasons why, you know, tell him, give him the knowledge and give him the biggest hug of his life and I promise you it will all be okay and always. And the reason why I'm telling that story is that, you know, he was trying to put something into it and, well, I won't tell him this and I'll just say sorry. And I was like, you know, just be Yourself, just be honest, just be real. And when you can go at that level, your sales would increase. When you come from a place of love, from your heart, when your desire is to get everybody to win, you know, I genuinely want you to succeed, Victoria. I come from that place. So if my service and my product can help you and you need it, I'm going to make sure that I do everything in my power that you move towards me, because I'm going to get you that result. And there's so many people out there that won't. So if I don't get you over the line by challenging you from a place of love, by asking you great questions, by finding out about you and where I can sort of. I call it like the pain in the game room, you know, So I got to find out your pains and identify those and try and work out where it is that you're going. If I can bridge that gap, then it's a crime if I don't get you to move towards me. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Doesn't get that result and then I've, you know, I've put you back in. In action. Yeah. Yeah. So just kind of reading, not reading between the lines, but just enhancing and thinking about what you've said is this idea that you, you are. You're kind of saying you are selling who you are rather than what you do and what you sell. And that's quite a big reframe, isn't it? You're selling who you are. You're selling, you. You're selling, you know, your authenticity. Yeah. Completely meant people buy from people. So, you know, go back to the beginning. You know, we've traded cattle and beans and all these things, and you brought from people and you still do. So, you know, I know I've worked with a lot of companies over the last 12 months and have been really scared of, like, AI and this, and it's going to look great, all that, you know, lose loads of jobs. It's like, actually, for me, and I was saying from the start, it's just gonna. The, the better AI gets, the better the human gets, meaning the more humanness we want, we crave it. You know, we crave having this connection, we crave having more hugs, we crave that more love. So the more you could put yourself in front of another human being and serve them from that level, the more they're going to be drawn to you, the more they're going to want to understand more about you and trust you, because that's the thing that AI has done for me is the, well, it's not just me, it's a fact. People's trust levels are at an all time low. I agree that's been coming over the last sort of 20 plus years. But you know, when we started, when I started out 25 years ago, you had one conversation and people brought from you, you know, then, then these things came along and people could Google everything and then, you know, and then, so then it got to about three touch points, then social media got bigger, then it was six touch points, then it was nine, but it's now 13 and that's, that's going upwards. Like it's probably changed to 14, 15 now. Meaning that people need to, you know, see you on social media, need another conversation, they need more of this. They, they do. And actually one of the things that I, I, I believe and I teach and see and I've evidenced is that it is when people see you on video, through experiences, through conversation, it's the human bit that accelerates the process and accelerates the, the sale because we're not hiding behind email, social media and all of that stuff. So it is all of that human contact that will accelerate the sale and, and that's getting even more important because of AI. Absolutely. And so, you know, you've hit the nail on the head there. I'm not suggesting that email and text and all that aren't important, touch points are, but like people, you've got to see your face on it. You know, people have to go, right, this person's real, I trust them, I believe them. And that means you walked and all, like you can google me and I've got a footprint on there. I'm the real deal, I'm all the things that I say I am. And if at any stage I've said today and I wasn't, you're out. And if we, and if you got, went online and saw like a digital version of me and my voice was slightly out from my speech, you're out, your trust level's gone. It's, it's a really small molecular level that people are. So that's what I meant about the human gets better. Because we're looking for those, we're looking for a reason to, to, to, to not trust you. So you've got to do everything as a human, meaning you've got to be your real, open, authentic self, not, not a pretend version, not what you think someone wants you to be yourself. And what will happen is you'll lose some of the clients that you have Got. But you'll just attract in abundance all the clients that you're supposed to have. Absolutely. All the ones that want and get you, Your people, your tribe, your people. Your people will come your way. Absolutely. So, listen, let's get into this, the book. So first of all, to say it here live while we're together, bloody congratulations on the launch of your book. I was so happy when I saw the message come through from you saying that, you know, the book is out there. And as soon as you sent that message through, I got my copy straight away. So, you know, absolutely incredible. And dearest listeners, please do go and grab your copy. Available on Amazon. Let's just get into that. So the heart of the sale is the title. Now just tell me, what was the problem that you were actually trying to solve for people when you actually wrote that? And if you were to have that one message for people to walk away with from that book, what is it? Yeah, so the one problem that I was trying to solve was, you know, people feeling that they were stuck or they couldn't get sales because they didn't like the idea of sales. You know, we touched on it a bit earlier. It was around, you know, reframing that for people. And actually, hopefully we've done that on this podcast, which is we're all sales people. You know, we are. It's just. It's in us. So for me, it was like, if you're feeling stuck because you feel inauthentic to, or you don't like the idea of sales, then, you know, pick this book up and read it, you know, and it's not just about sales. In fact, it's everything. But in regards to its mindset, it's my story. It's, you know, it's about. It's about being your authentic self, which I know we've covered today on this podcast. So, yeah, so the message really was, look, you know, you know, reframing what you see as a salesperson, how you feel sales are fundamentally in that book, going back to the fact that, you know, we are all salespeople. We're our own DNA is from gold, silver and diamond. So it was just shifting people's belief. And then there's a process in there, as I said to you earlier, which was about, you know, actually how do you then do it at a level that makes you feel congruent and authentic? And there's. There's routines and there's stories in there. So, yeah, so fundamentally, that was what I was trying to achieve with this. With this amazing Amazing. So for those watching, just give us a flash of the COVID I know it's right by your side. It is, it is. It is full enough. I've got a copy just here, so there it is. So the heart of the sale. 7 Steps to Embrace the art of serving over selling by the Fabulous. It doesn't say that on the. On the book, the. The fabulous Marcus Elwell. Yeah, it does. Somewhere. I'm sure it's got fabulous in there as well. And in my book, by the way. And this is what it's all about in regards to, you know, what we're just talking about. So back it up. I've got pictures in there with me, with my kids, where we're doing the wolf run. You know, my girlfriend's in there. There's. There's me when I've just come out of my. The hospital. I've literally just had my head cut open. I've got a big scar on the back of my head. As. As Victoria knows, I have my head cut open. You know, I. My nickname with my family was Uncle Buck. You know, I was. I put a lot of weight on through steroids, and it was during the COVID time, so I didn't get to see family and friends because people are allowed to visit. But that pitch is in there, warts and all, like, because I don't want it to just look like, oh, here I am. I've done pretty well. You should listen to me. Like, I've messed up personally, businessly, you know, I've had a brain tumor. I was, like, broke, and I had to learn to walk again properly. I had to learn to talk again properly, you know, so all of the things that I've talked about today and all the things that are in my book is a blueprint from, like, inside out. How do you rebuild yourself at any stage of life, whether you're at the beginning of your career, whether you're at the end of your career, like, it's never too late. There's a question that I get asked, why is it too late for me 100%. Never, ever, ever. You just got to start today. Yeah, absolutely. And you know what? Just coming off the back of that, we've had many conversations, but the one thing that I always remember you saying is, is that you don't want anyone to reach the end of their life thinking, what if? 100%. And that really kind of always rings in my ear, like, no one wants to get there, get to the end of their life and go, oh, what if? So talk to me about that. Tell me about your, your thinking and your beliefs around that. Yeah, so, so again for me, because of where I, where I was with my, with my illness, you know, all I can tell you is that all the things that you think you want in life, material wise, when your health is taken away from you or possibly taken away from you, I can guarantee you that all of them mean nothing. Like literally all you want is experiences. And all my mind did was remembered. All the holidays that I'd been on, all the great people I'd met, all the great conversations and experiences that I had. It wasn't what car you were driving, it wasn't what watch was on your wrist. Like you, like, you know, you just realize in that, in that moment that there is no amount of money that values your humanness, your life here, your existence. And I remember saying to my surgeon, is there an amount of money that I can give you that's going to guarantee that I can be here? And he just looked at me and said, no, he's like, you know, I've got, you know, he didn't do this in a big headed manner. He sort of went, no, I've got to Ferraris and I haven't driven the first one yet because I'm always fixing people. He was like an angelic type of person. And you know, and he's. His whole purpose here was to, to serve people like me and save my life. You know, cut tumors out of my body. That was his, that was, that was his, his purpose. So for me in those moments I thought, well, if I do go now, did I live the life that I wanted to lead? Was either version of me that I wanted to be or was I the version I was destined to be? And looking in the mirror I was like, yeah, okay, look, I've done some good things and I'm okay and I've had some bad com. You know, I've done some not so great things. Not saying I'm a wrong gun or anything like that, but you know, like there's lots of things that we can all look at I suppose go perhaps with always a head on or a, you know, a difference with a cap on. Again, I probably wouldn't have done that. So, but I sort of went, did I crush it? Like did. Like if I went now would I be like yes. And I was like, nah. But that, that, that it didn't do that for me. So that was why I went on my journey of self discovery and okay, well how do I, how do I make sure I've crushed it. How do I make sure that like, what's that thing for me? And for me it was, I wanted to serve people. When I look back as like, what's been the best times, it was when I, you know, when I was driving my Rolls Royce as a five year old and then I'm selling a load of lunchboxes to everybody, putting a big smile on their face and helping them feel better about themselves, connecting, relationship building, helping them get over their self belief. So for me it was like, I'm going to spend every day I've got from this day to whenever that will be, making sure that I'm everything that I want to be. Meaning I eat well, I think well, I train every morning, I do cold water therapy, I do breath work. So I add all the little fundamental things that I need to, that I need to put in there to make sure that I turn up as my version of myself that I need to be. Because the one thing for me, Victoria was I was like, if I do meet the guy on the pearly gates right here, right now, and he turns around to me and says, hey, how do you think you got on? And I go, yeah, I think I did all right. And he looks at me and he goes, or she looks at me, you know, and they go, hey, yeah, you did, you did do all right. And you're like, but it's that like look where it's like, but you could have done better, you know? And like it's like what if you'd have just took that decision? What if you'd have just put, pushed through that next conversation, you know, I say to people, pick up the phone. Your next sale, your next piece of business is in your community already. I guarantee. Don't need to spend a million pound on a, a social media ad. You don't need to have a big sort of super duper webinar thing. Like all those things help like 100%. But your next immediate business is already in your community. Yeah, I 100% agree with that, Marcus. It is, they are like your community is your low hanging fruit. The other staff, you work them into your community. But if you want to get a sale today, you're absolutely right. They are in your community right now. So, so, so those things for me it's like pick up the phone, send an email, send a text, send a WhatsApp. There's a minute what WhatsApp video thing. So send a little personal video note to somebody that you sent an email to or a quote and you've not heard back. Reach out to them, show them the love, right? So for me, it was like, it was me going back to this, you know, person on the Gates of Peterson. Michael said, whoever, you know, God, you know, go in. Yeah, but, like, you know, when you went back there and you didn't do that, you. You could have lived that life. And you just sort of look over to the left and there's that. There's like a spirit version of the version of you that crushed it. Oh, you've thought this through, haven't you? You really have. And I was like, I. That would be for me. I'd be like, no. So it was that, what if? Like, what if I'd have just did this. What if today. I don't know Marcus from. From anybody, right? But I quite like one thing he said, I'm going to implement that, and I'm going see where it takes me. What if that just leads to your next sale, to your next best conversation, to the next love relationship, whatever it might be? What if. So the challenge would be, you know, pick one thing from today, or maybe not from this one, from one of Victoria's other amazing, you know, podcasts that she's done. Pick one thing and implement it and see where it takes you. But don't look back in four years time wishing, what if. What if it had just done that? What if I just listened to Victoria's advice and it took me somewhere else? So, I mean, yeah, absolutely. That's. That's great stuff. I just want to, you know, you. You've mentioned your personal situation with your brain tumor, etc. And I just want to call out the stuff that you do for brain tumor research. I want you to just tell us all what you're up to right now, because, you know, there's a lot going on, isn't there? So just share with everyone, what are you up to right now? So really good question. So I'll start with. So earlier on in the year, I trek the Sahara Desert from one side to the other. I do a lot for. I've done the hierarchy a few times. So I actually had a conversation last night with a couple of people where I went, I just need to do something, like, even bigger next year. So we did the sort of. We did the fire. We're calling it the Fire and Ice. We did the Sahara Desert. So we're actually looking at doing something in the. In Iceland next year. I haven't quite figured it out yet, but I'm gonna do something in the ice. Whether it's going to be sort of like a marathon in the Arctic Circle. I don't quite. It's going to be something like, out there. I always like to challenge myself massively, as you know. So I haven't like actually booked something in right here right now, but the two people that I was with last night, we're just going to get up a mountain and get in a lake and stuff like that. So a lot of my training, a lot of the things that I'm doing all the time are keeping me primed for, you know, anything that I want to take on. As you know, I do CrossFit, so that keeps you functionally moving, functionally fit. So, you know, for instance, I don't know this was a question, but, you know, we're on holiday in August and I'm doing like handstand walking handstands on the beach with my kids and like, I've got other mom, dad's comments. How can you do that? It's like, you know, I'm not saying you have to do CrossFit, but it keeps you functionally fit so that I can do the next thing. So, yeah, I don't want to say to you that I've got something booked in because I haven't yet, but I'll be doing something around mid next year. I always do something big for, for branching research and I'm looking forward to. Yeah, you'll be one of the first to know because I'll get you to sponsor me, hopefully. Absolutely. I'm here for that. Absolutely. No problem at all. So. So one more question before we get into our next little section. Time. So I hear it all the time. You hear it all the time. I haven't got time to do this, I haven't got time to do that. Like, so many excuses. And I think time is one of the things that everyone actually just kind of, you know, sits behind and uses that as a massive reason why they don't get shit done. So, I mean, you've got a family, as you said. You got your three lovely kids, you're running a business, you're doing your charity work, you're training all the time. How do you make it all happen? How do you stop getting in your own way and feeding yourself that of. I don't have time. Yeah. So I go to bed earlier and I get up earlier. So, you know, fundamentally, that's it. I. I literally get. I make sure I'm not on my phone late at night, I'm not on it in the morning. So you Start small. That's why I don't ask anybody to do anything big because you won't keep it up. You know, the nature of the beast is that you won't, you know, some will. There are like, you know, a percentage of people that need all or nothing, like cold turkey, effectively. But the majority of us, you know, we've got to start creating that muscle memory, you know, we've got to start controlling that, you know, that discipline muscle. Like anything you want to go get six pack, you got to go to gym every day. It's not going to happen on one session. And it's the same with your discipline muscle. So you've got to start getting control of yourself. So start with your five minutes. Then it leads to when, when everything just starts working. But it's much easier than like do half an hour before you go to bed and then an hour. So then you start getting time there and then I just get up, I've got a routine and want to get up earlier and I could start earlier. So you know, before we got into this podcast today, in the last few months I've been working, you know, my home feels like a hotel. I go out to teams, I've got my own training company where people come to my three day events. So I'm in a lot of hotels so I can't, I haven't got like an hour and a half to do my gym session. So I've got a like smaller version of my routine which is my, I call it my non negotiable. So it's a routine that involves getting up, I do some movement, I do some breath work and you can do it together. So I'll be going, I've got enough time to break. Just do them together. So do your movement, be conscious about how you move. It doesn't mean you got to go and do like 100 press ups. And I'm not saying that like I've got a movement that's like a flow. We just move in the body for about five, six minutes. And in that movement I'm also doing my breath work which just grounds me, gets me really present. At the same time I'm also thinking about how grateful I am that I can move my body. So I'm doing my gratefulness, gratitude, thinking at the same time. And then I get into my cold. So I go and have my warm shower and I finish with two minutes in cold and again just a bit more breath work there. So it's about 10 minutes is my non negotiable routine. Now when I've got more time and when I'm at home and I've got a bit more, then I can go to the gym and spend an hour, you know, I can go to go for a walk but sometimes I haven't got that luxury. So then don't not do it because then the chimp starts raging again and the, and the fight or flight and then you like, oh, well, I haven't done it for a few days so I might as well just not, you know, and then you get back into the default setting. So like, you know, that's why I say just give yourself something achievable, bite sized, you know, items of everything that it is that you want to do. Whatever you need to add, you know, whether it's the exercise. Well, it will, but it'd be all those things, eat better, you know, so it's just all the little ones. All the little ones sometimes, Victoria, where, you know, one falls away a little bit and I'm not gonna lie to you, but because you've got so many others, you'd start doing the other one a bit more you up. So, you know, I'm not saying you've got to do all of the things all of the time because we're human and some Christmas parties are going on and nativity, it's a lot. You know, if I told you my schedule over the last few months, it's, you know, it's a lot. But I love it because I'm doing what it is that I want to do. I'm, I'm helping, I'm serving people and I've got my routine. So even when I don't do the long mileage on it, I've still done the thing, which means that when I have got the time, you'll go and do it rather than not do it. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. So we've talked about loads. This is packed full of absolute gems. So in summary of all that good stuff that we've spoken about, could you set the listeners and obviously the viewers a little task that they can go and do that will help them to progress and get some success with their sales? What can they do? Yeah, so the, the thing that I would suggest to do the quick win is for me, well, if you're looking for a quick win, so I'm going to answer, these are two things. Reach out to community, right? Reach out to your people already. Show them some love. And that means picking up the phone. That means reaching out with the WhatsApp message said all that said, all those things you know already that will get you a quick win. And the very thing to do to start moving you towards this is write down three things that you are grateful for right here, right now. Don't compare yourself to one of your peers, one of your family members, one of your friends that you think's crushing it, because the truth is most of them, deep down, aren't. They can look like they are, but they're not. So start with three things that you are grateful for, right? Get really present, do a little bit of breathing. So like, for me, whenever, you know, whenever I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed, whenever I'm not sure, I just concentrate on the breath. So there's lots of different breathing apps out there. So the easiest one to just get into right here, right now is just consciously breathe in through the nose and as you breathe out, do it like pierce lips and just do that for a couple of minutes, just. And what you're trying to do is breathe out slightly longer than you're breathing in. So about four seconds in if you can, and roughly about double going out and just get really present and be thankful for what you've got and start there and what will happen. I know it sounds, I know it can sound like, well, what's that going to do for me? How's that going to help me? What it's going to do? It's going to get you really present. It's going to get you into the present mind. When you're present, you're not in a fearful mind. Okay? So what that means is that you could start making better decisions. You start processing some of the stuff that you've not been processing and you start to make. You start to think about other things. Like you start creating opportunities. You start thinking about, actually, who can I bring who, how could I do? You know, you start thinking about possibilities because you're getting out of your. What you're doing here is you're getting out of the fear mind and you're getting into the, the present mind, the, the, the, the, the possibility mind, the real you. You're getting away from the monkey version and you get the ego version of you, and you're getting into the actual Marcus Elwe, the Victoria, what is it I'm trying to achieve? So, so as, as daft as it may sound, just doing that process in the morning, three times a day, consciously thinking about it, you'll start, you'll start to catch the things that you're thinking about as well, and then you can start shifting what Those are. So if they're not serving you one of the biggest wins, I say to people, again, a little 1% revolution. Add one good thing, take one thing away. It's often something you're thinking, it's often something you're telling yourself and you just change it. So here's, here's how you do it. Rather than saying, I can't, I can, I will and I am. So whatever it is, I am great, I am, I will do this, I deserve to be this. Start repeating those things, changing those things. If I can't. So I can. And just see the shift over 7 days, 10 days, 14 days, 21 days. And you're just. Everything will start feeling better, you'll be more congruent, you'll feel better, you'll relax. As I said. I know we said it before, but, you know, just things around you will be better. I can't, I can't tell you what that is for you. Right here, right now. It will happen and then it makes. It easier to do the next bit and the next bit. Yeah, so you have got. So that, that's excellent advice, I think, breathing. I know we all breathe, but doing breath work changes a lot. It can get you out of all sorts of situations. I mean, you know, even if you've had too many glasses of wine, do some great breathing. And it's amazing how clear your head becomes and you're oxygenating your blood and your energy raises. So, yeah, that's absolutely, absolutely brilliant advice. But thinking back to sales, you have got a little quiz, haven't you, that, that people can tap into that will help them maybe to see some of the, the gaps that they've got and what they can do to improve in like the world of sales itself. So if we could get that link for the show notes, that would be amazing. And so if anybody wanting to go and visit your website and check out that course quiz, we'll make sure that there's a link there for everyone to do that. Absolutely. And I've got. There is. We were talking about earlier on and there was something that came up. So there's another link that I'm going to share to that, which is more around sort of like where you're at at the moment as well. So I'll add another link to you, which is a sort of free bunch of people. Fabulous. Just to. Yeah. Just to again, see where you are, where it is you want to be and how you're going to get there by implementing some, you know, small structured steps. It's Marketing karaoke time. Now, it's a bit. It's a bit playful, but there's a deep reason behind marketing karaoke time on this podcast, because music has got an incredible ability to anchor memory and emotion. So I don't know if you've ever been in this situation, Marcus. I'm sure you have, where a song comes on and you suddenly go right back to somewhere, feeling, thinking, remembering, and almost like reliving a moment. And it doesn't really take a lot of trying when it comes to. To music, and I find that it works beautifully with learning as well. So if we can connect with an idea or a lesson or. Or a moment of clarity from a song, then, you know, your brain's got a way of retrieving it so it becomes really, really sticky. So when you're driving in the car and that song comes on, hopefully you'll remember the conversation or something we've said. It can shift you back. So that's what I wanted to do to do in the marketing karaoke session is make sure that everyone's anchored to what we've been talking about today. Now, I have a song that I associate with you, Marcus, and are you ready for it? Because I know you love it. You ready? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am the one and only. You know, it's your song, so all about that. I forgot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair play. We've sung that on a number of occasions. Just. I don't know why. For some reason, that song is. Is anchored to you. So if that song comes on, that's a. Marcus. What? Tell me why. What was the. I don't remember why. I just remember us singing it once or I started singing it and you just joined in and you were singing along with me and we were both having a little dance. I love it. I love it. Some reason now that is. That is just something that reminds me of you. But you have a song, and it's a song that you actually sent me the link to. To last year to listen to. And I have to say, it's a really, really powerful song. So could you please share with us your choice of song and how it links to what is just a fabulous conversation that we've had today? Yeah. So know that you are loved, and it's just a really lovely song. And whenever I listen to. It's about eight minutes long. So it's quite long. But for me, when I was rebuilding myself, I was really vulnerable, physically and mentally broken. And I remember hearing this for the first time, and it just got me really Present really in my heart, and it just let me know that I was enough and I wasn't feeling enough at the time, and it just shifted me such a. I actually ended up doing, like, a meditation into it. So I know we didn't actually touch on meditation. It's one big thing that you. Is fundamental to. To me as well. I. So I just want to get that in if you can, if you're not already. Meditation is the key and the gateway to all of this. I mean, you put meditation down to one of the reasons you recuperated from your brain tumor, don't you? Yeah. I just can't believe that we've not touched on that at all. It's just been. It's been one of those things, but here we are now doing it. So. So this, for me, when I'm in my. I mean, I've listened to it in my ice barrel. It's eight minutes long, and I will just completely lose myself. I'm like a spirit animal, spirit bird, whatever you want to call, and I've just. So. I just love it. And it's just there for me as a reminder that no matter where you are in life, no matter what you're doing, you're enough. So that's. That's what this song is. Amazing. Amazing. I wouldn't do it much justice if I tried to sing because it's voice, but it's. You know, the words are. Know that you are loved, you know, so it's a. You know you are loved. Rest in peace. And it just goes on from there. So it's just like, rest in peace. Know that you are love. Know that you are loved. So just remember that. So if. If we could take one thing away from today. If you don't take anything else, know that you are loved. Know that you come from love. And just be your amazing self. Okay. And you are loved. So come from love. That's what the heart, the side is all about. Lead from love. What would love do? Think about that in every situation. What. How would. If love was like, the thing, how would it handle it? So. And come from that place and your world will change. Promise you. That is incredible. What a. What a last little line you've just left us with there. That is amazing. Marcus, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I'm so happy you're here. I'm absolutely delighted with some of the advice and concepts that you've brought to everyone today. So I'm going to summarize now. Let's wrap up now. If there's one thing that I want you to take from today, it's this. Selling isn't about becoming someone else, is it? It's about becoming more of who you really are. And I think that Marcus has really demonstrated that today for us. So when you look after you, when you look after your well being, when you stop treating, you know, sales as something you have to do and start seeing it as a genuine extension of your values, your purpose, everything shifts. And, you know, just that summary from Marcus, there have come from a place of love and everything will just feel lighter, certainly with sales, if not everything in life. So please don't just, you know, sit on your headphones or in your car or wherever you're listening to this from right now. Do those tasks that Marcus has set for you and it's not going to take you long and it will give you a shift. It'll give you a shift in how you think, how you sell, how you can change the way you show up. So, but most of all, remember this, you do not want to get to the end of your journey asking what if, as Marcus has said, so what if you backed yourself? What if you did take those steps? What if you did raise your prices? What if you were just true to you? What if? So use what you've heard today to start answering those questions. Why? While you've actually still got some of those choices available to you. So once again, Marcus, thank you so much for your honesty, for the depth and for your absolutely unique perspectives that you've brought to us today and for mine, for actually reminding us, you know, we've only got one life and we've got to go all in. So if you'd like to explore Marcus's work a bit more, they're in the show notes. Everything is in the show notes, including a link to Heart of the Cell. He's amazing book. And before you just go back into the pace of your day today, do something from this conversation, even one small action. As Marcus says, the 1%. Build something in your life that you don't want to escape from. So thank you all so much for listening and I'll see you on the next episode.