Finding Your Way: A Conversation with Coach and Author Lea Appleton

What if the most important journey isn't the one that takes you somewhere new, but the one that helps you find your way back to yourself?

In this episode I sit down with coach, outdoor enthusiast, and author Lea Appleton to discuss the transformative power of walking. Lea is the author of Walking & Wayfinding: Create Your Own Mindful Practice, One Step at a Time, a book that explores how walking can help us navigate uncertainty, embrace change, and discover meaning in our everyday lives.

Our conversation covers the inspiration behind her book, the concept of wayfinding, and why some of the most meaningful walks don't require a passport, a mountain summit, or even a destination. We also explore how walking can help us slow down, reconnect with ourselves, and cultivate a sense of wonder in a world that often moves too fast.

Learn more about Lea Appleton:

• Website: https://www.wildwayfinding.com/
• Book: Walking & Wayfinding: Create Your Own Mindful Practice, One Step at a Time

Have a walking story to share? I'd love to hear it.

Check out WhyWalkingMatters.com Blog and become a subscriber for weekly walking tips! Share Your Walking Story Listen on YouTube 

Email us at: Kaydoscope@gmail.com to share topics you'd like to learn about.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to Why Walking Matters, The Science Explained. I'm Tatiana, your host. Last week, on Why Walking Matters, we talked about the science behind a September walking reset. Why changing seasons often inspire us to start fresh, create new habits, and reconnect with activities that help us feel our best. One of the ideas we explored was that walking isn't just good for physical health, it can also help us to gain clarity, process life transition, and reconnect with ourselves during times of trade. That brings me to today's guest. Leah Appleton is a professional coach, outdoor enthusiast, and the author of Walking and Wayfinding. Create your own mindful practice one step at a time. Sometimes they can begin right outside your front door. Her work explores how walking can help us navigate uncertainty, notice the world around us, and find our way through life challenges and transitions. Today we'll talk about her journey into walking, the inspiration behind her book, the concept of wayfinding, and how all of us can create a more mindful walking practice, whether we're hiking a mountain trail or simply walking around the block. So lace up your shoes, settle into your pace, and join me for a conversation with Leah Appleton. Leah Appleton, welcome to the podcast. So I there. So Leah, before we dive into your book and your work, I'd love to start with your story. Can you talk a little bit about your background, your coaching practice, and what led you to write this book? Walking and Wayfinding, Create Your Own Mindful Practice One Step at a Time.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Sure. So I began, let's see, my background, I grew up in mostly in California. I lived overseas with my parents, and they were in graduate school when I was very small. And as I continued my own studies, I am a musician. That's what I studied in college. And so I've been really exploring all the time. I'm still a musician, though that's not my profession at the moment. My professional life has largely been in higher education. So I retired from higher ed in 2021. I had been a dean of students and uh an associate dean for student success, probably all told it was a little over 20 years. And so I decided after COVID, like half of the rest of the world, that I wanted to do something different. It was time for a pivot. And that's when I moved into coaching. And I had started coaching, I had done some training while I was in higher education because I wanted to, I did it as professional development, because I wanted to learn how to ask better questions. I did a lot of listening and I thought I could do do better with the questions. And what's interesting as, you know, as since you've read the book, is that it's a lot of questions, and the questions, though the walking raises questions for me. So in some ways, that's really become my the thing that's pulled me forward is connecting all these things that I've been doing in the last few years. Um what prompted me to write the book, uh, I tell the story in the book itself about how I was going to walk the Camino Francaise with my sister in May of 2020, but COVID um canceled those plans. And um so then a couple of years later, I thought, well, I'm just gonna make my own pilgrimage. I can do this. I am gonna just go walk and see what all this long walking is all about. So I walked along the coast of California for about five days, and I my sister joined me, my husband, my father joined me at the end, which was wonderful, and I got a taste of what people uh do when they walk these really long walks around the world. And after that, the next year I decided I was gonna do a pilgrimage every year. Well, that didn't wasn't super realistic, and so I made a single day and I called it a wayfinding day, and I had all sorts of ideas about what I thought it would be, um, but it was different, and instead it became this quiet, not even introspective time. It just I was able to stop thinking, which is quite a feat for me. Um, I write in the book a lot about how I have a very active brain, but when I'm walking, my mind slows a little bit, and that was really wonderful. So people thought that was really interesting, they liked this idea and wanted to go wayfinding with me. So I've hosted over the last two years probably half a dozen different wayfinding walks, and um invited people to see what they're experiencing, notice what's going on with them, journal if they like, share if they like. Um, and then I've also then realized I can't I can't do this as often as people are wanting. And so, and I think other people might really like this. So that's what prompted the writing of the book. What's interesting about the book itself is that it was a different kind of book when it began, when I began writing it, and it became something else as I was writing it. And it became this book about what does it mean to have a mindful practice? What could that mean if someone wanted to create something like that? And really an invitation for people who either have a mindful practice and haven't connected it with walking or like to walk but haven't connected it with paying attention or noticing. Um, and that's really sharing those ideas, is what prompted me to write the book.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Yeah, you know, I you mentioned that you wanted to ask better questions, and that's what brought you into coaching. So were there particular questions you were trying to ask?

SPEAKER_01 7:16

When I met with folks in the school setting, they were questions based on what they were saying. So it really the thing about coaching that really captured me was really listening and then being able to respond to what a person is saying in that moment and ask the next question, not as a leading question that I have an answer to, but as a curiosity question of what they have an answer to, to try to get them to understand that. So, like in when I meet with my coaching clients now, um, it's a you know regular dialogue kind of conversation, but the focus is on what they're what they're knowing, what they're discovering, what what comes up to them um as they ask the next question and then think about it and ask the next question and what becomes possible in those moments.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Okay, yeah. So, you know, this book really reminded me of a time when I was obsessed with uh understanding my life's purpose. I was really truly obsessed with it. And and I think it's slowed over the years. I've more just, you know, tried to um live and go with the flow of things and see how things are um and use that, try to find purpose in that. But reading this book brought me like right back to that kind of thinking. And even before I started reading the book, I guess I must have had some sort of like expectation of what the book was going to be about. So it was funny. Early on, um I found myself making a note when I read this. Wherever we are in life is where we begin when we walk. We come just as we are, in whatever state of mind and body that we are when we take those first steps. It may begin with a furrowed brow, trying endlessly to figure something out. Perhaps it's with achy joints or sore muscles, or maybe it's relief in your heart for some open space. As I read that, I realized wait a minute, this book is not about just like walking to the store or doing tours, or this book is about um deciding to walk intentionally. So can you start there? Like, can you explain what is wayfinding generally and what you mean by wayfinding in the book?

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Yeah, sure. You know, one of the things that's interesting is when you read that passage, the thing that always was in my mind was the places on a map somewhere that says you are here. That we're always located somewhere. And whether it's our social location or whether it's our physical location or whether it's where our brain or body is, that's where we are. And um I think that part of that for me is the starting point. Because wherever it is we want to go, whether it's in a coaching conversation, whether it's in a wayfinding walk, we have to know where we're starting from, in my in my view. And so, or or at least to begin to consider where we might be starting from. The wayfinding, and the idea of wayfinding, I'm kind of a word nerd, and I was really captured. I I honestly can't quite remember where I was reading about it, but the idea of the architecture use of wayfinding is city planners, um, building designers, uh, the way that you know, hallways help you find where you're supposed to go, the ways that sidewalks uh through a park might help you, the way that you just kind of know where it is that you're gonna make your way out of the parking structure or whatever. Um so it can be with signs, it can be intuitively, but it's actually there's a lot of thought that goes into these uh the designers and architects who do that. And I thought, well, that's really interesting because when when I went on my first wayfinding walk, and I took it more literally like I am going to find my way. Like that was the plan of wayfinding for me. That did not happen. I was not a whole lot clear on kind of like you, you're talking about the obsession of life's purpose. I wanted to know, you know, what I was gonna do for the rest of my waking days at that point in time, particularly around my business and my professional life, and and that really didn't happen. So so it doesn't mean necessarily that you're looking for the path, so that you can make the choice right there and and knowing the direction you're gonna go forever. But it's being able to pay attention in the moment, let like being able to see a sign, whether it's an internal sign, a noticing, or whether it's actually a physical sign. I write about this a lot in the book where where I just started to look at signs and like the sign that said clarifier at the beach was so amazing. It's like, oh wow, what could I clarify if I really paid attention out here with the ocean and sand and sky? Um, or slow down, or you know, usually the signs they'll say speed up, but you know, get out of the way. Hey, watch, merge, yield, things like that. Yeah where then I could answer the question. So the the idea for wayfinding for me from a more philosophical standpoint was not to find the only path, but to find the next step on the path. And so I don't have to know the forever direction, because at least for me in my life, that's kind of how it's been. I don't totally know ultimately where I'm headed. I just know where I'm going right now. And the wayfinding allows me to find those next steps on the path, if you will, whether it's actually walking them or whether it's in planning out, you know, the next steps for my life.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah, it it actually aligns with the idea of staying in the present because you're not thinking too far ahead. You're thinking just where do I go from right here? I I like that, and it's actually advice that I find myself giving people sometimes, like mainly younger people who are trying to figure out um, you know, like what they should be doing in life and trying to think about an entire lifetime. And I find myself saying things like, well, you have to get to like the end of the block before you can see what's around the corner. Right? This reminds me of that. This reminds me.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah, and being able to accept that and in some ways welcome that, and then be able to notice what's between here and the corner, as opposed to trying to occupy yourself with imagining what's around the corner. I mean, I'm I'm all for imagination, but and sometimes then I might miss something uh in that space between here and there.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

So yeah, the the the figuring it out, that's something that I learned a lot in coaching. When I myself first began the process and worked with coaches, I just wanted to think my way through this. And you know, I that is a perfectly valid way to to understand and to know things, but it's not the only way. And sometimes for me, I find that, especially if it's not clear, if I haven't gone to clarify the ocean lately, um the the figuring it out just gets myself stuck because I I'm I'm unable to, and so then I feel like I can't move forward. So instead of waiting to figure it out in order to move forward, the wayfinding and the and the actual physical walking or movement of whatever paying attention that one might do, for me, it's the movement that helps me figure it out. It's the going forward first.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Like, okay, let's just keep this moving, and I will know better as as I get to the corner. I can see clearly around the corner.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Yeah, that's a good point. So I especially liked the quotes that were included that preceded each chapter. Um and in chapter three, um the quote was from Wanderless. Um I like walking because it is slow, and I suspect that the mind, like the feet, works at about three miles an hour. If this is so, then modern life is moving faster than the speed of thought or thoughtfulness. That's like really profound. And then you say well, I'd like to say I always was connected to walking. My walking life began after I no longer could run for fitness. So tell can you tell us about your journey to walking?

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Yeah. So I I ran, I did track and field when I was in high school, and even when I imagined myself as a kid, I just like to go fast. It was fun. And so I ran everywhere. Um, I walked really quickly. I lived in New York City after college, so I learned to really walk quickly. Yep. That's what I really did then. So um, so speed was kind of my MO. I talk too fast um or very fast, uh, I do things quickly. Um and I think that's fine, but I it's not the only way to be, and I had not really tried things that were so I honestly thought walking was boring. And so um, why would you want to walk if you could run? And so um after, you know, my relatively short-lived, you know, high school running career, I ran a few, I ran a half marathon here and there, five caves. And it just I just enjoyed moving quickly. I would run for fun and I would run to clear my head. Um, I would go out and you know, in a few short minutes I felt like I think then I I somehow knew intuitively if I move, I can I can be more relaxed. Um but I have had lots of joint issues. I had a hip replacement actually right after this book came out. I had a hip replacement in 2024, and that really slowed me down. Um, but prior to that, um I was I was already unable to do a lot of the things that I'd wanted to do, and then even walking became um kind of hard. So realizing like, oh, if I slow down, I can actually go, I can keep moving um and not keep hurting myself and you know, not be in pain. And and so I think I'm gonna do this. So it was a combination of aging and and acceptance and awareness in this process. And, you know, at some point, and again, I can't quite remember why I decided I wanted to walk the Camino, but to do that, I thought, well, I want to be in shape enough to in walking shape, so I'm gonna actually walk to be ready to walk. So I did a lot of walking and I started to like it actually. And because I couldn't really run because it I was sore all the time, I realized I wasn't walking for fitness really, though I'm sure it's healthy. Um, but I was walking because I enjoyed it. I was walking because it allowed me to slow down and to think, and this idea, you know, that Rebecca Fulnett writes about this idea that, oh, maybe maybe I can be thoughtful in a different kind of way if I'm not in a hurry so often. So that's kind of how I found walking. So I found it kind of because I had to, but also because I wanted to. And it was that combination of wanting to prepare for a big long walk somewhere, and because running didn't work, that I I started doing it more regularly. And even after I couldn't go on the Camino, I've kept walking. And I walk a lot by myself, but I've now in the last since I've written this book. In fact, this next book I'm working on right now is walking with others, because you know, mindful practice is very often we might do it next to somebody, but it is more of an individual personal thing. Um, but I'm finding that I'm in I have regular walking commitments with people that I really enjoy. And we talk, you know, we don't always fill the airspace. Sometimes we uh hike or walk in quiet, but um that's something that's really developed where I never did that before. So that was a new thing that I learned I really like, so I do it more. Um, and then the one other thing that walking has also opened up is that I've done more hiking and I do more backpacking because I'm able to now because um I'm taking better care of my body, and so I can get outside all sorts of ways. So it's kind of snowballed, if you will, if you can I don't walk in the snow that often, but you know, that metaphor of something getting bigger as we go.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Um so that's been really great.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

So you mentioned that you you run you used to run to clear your head. Is is there a difference in uh what happens in your mind like if you compare compare running to walking, since now you're kind of you know an expert at both.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

That's a really good question. Um, let me think. I think that well, the one thing that to be fair, that is just kind of a reality, I found that I could do it a lot more quickly with running. And again, because I was into speed, that was great. I could go clear my head in fifteen, twenty minutes and feel a lot better. Where a fifteen or twenty minute walk is great, or even a five minute walk is great, but a three hour walk is better in terms of clearing my head. It takes me longer. Um, but that's okay because I get I can do it. So I'm all right, and I've adjusted, you know, I'm I'm older now and I can create time to do this in a way that maybe I couldn't or didn't think I could maybe when I was younger. But I've also gotten better at being able it's like my body's cued, so I'll go in and I'm like, okay, I have 10 minutes, I'm gonna walk in between clients today. And I can pretty quickly just kind of reset and focus and let go of all my thoughts and clear my head. So I think with practice it can become you can do it faster.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Faster with walking. Well that I I I'm surprised by your response because I thought I was surprised when you said you ran to clear your head because I thought that it would be harder to clear your head, like you'd have a different mindful experience when you run.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

I think that you can I for me, I probably have a more mindful experience when I'm walking just because I'm slower. But for me, when I ran, when I was running, um honestly, I think it was just getting tired. I'd run fast. And so I could the the physical being able to just you focus on your breath really fast, it just starts to happen. So yeah, it it I don't know, maybe other people don't clear their heads running, but it definitely worked for me for sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Yeah. Yep. That's really interesting. Is is walking ever exercise for you now, or or do you get your exercise some other way?

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Sure. I think most of the time my intent for walking is to just go and kind of have a moment with myself. Okay. Um but I think that for me, I think it's sort of it's not that I don't do it for exercise, but it's sort of the um serendipitous byproduct of doing something that I like. It's like, oh, this is good for my body too. That's great. But I like I don't count steps, you know. I don't um, you know, I rarely sometimes I'll want to know how far I went. Like if I'm getting ready to do a backpacking trip, or I think I mentioned to you I'm I'm going to actually go walk the Camino now at the end of the month. Uh finally I'm so excited. So I am want I want to pay attention to how long I'm walking or maybe how far sometimes, but that's probably the extent of fitness for me with that. I don't like I don't wear a smartwatch or a Fitbit or you know, I might look because I'm curious how many miles I walked last week, but only if I'm prepping for some other like a backpacking trip or like this longer walk that just to make sure that I can do it. So I don't generally go walk with the intent of I'm gonna walk briskly and I'm gonna walk for a half an hour. I'm gonna see if I can walk however many miles that would be. I don't know. It's more accidentally accidental fitness when I do it.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Do you ever listen to music when you walk, or is it always in silence?

SPEAKER_01 25:21

You know, rarely. I rarely listen to music. And I know it's very peop a lot of people that I talk to love to listen to music, or they'll listen to podcasts, or they'll listen to, you know, audiobooks. And I rarely do that. And I think honestly, it's because I have a lot going on in my head as I'm here. I'm really fine, but I do have a lot going on in my head, and so I don't want to put more stuff in my head. I'll listen to I don't even listen to music when I drive that often either. I mean, I might listen to an audiobook when I drive, but I often will drive in silence too. So I think that I think it's just a preference.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Yeah. Um I love love music, and so I'm always listening to music, but there are times when I intentionally turn the music off, and I notice when I do that, my brain engages. I can I'm now I am now attuned to what's going on inside of my mind rather than externally outside hearing the music or people on the radio and what they're talking about and following their line of conversation. I'm back in myself and I'm following what I want to think about, the things that are important to me, maybe something that I was thinking about and I stopped. Now I pick it back up. So um I was curious about um whether or not you ever listen to music as you're walking and um practicing the mindfulness.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

So I I think it also could be because I am, you know, I mentioned that my undergraduate and I actually have a master's in music too, right? So I've studied music a lot, so it's really hard for me to listen to music and just let it wash over me. Like I have to really listen just because that's what I'm practiced at. It's how I listen to music, and it's not just the words, it's what all the sounds, and it's just so much, it's harder for me, like you said, to engage my brain differently.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

So that could also be why if I'm listening to music, I'm often not doing something else. I'm just listening to music. Yeah. And so I can give it my full attention. Yeah. But that could just be me, you know. Um, yeah, that's an interesting thing. I do think that being mindful, it's easier, if that's fair. I I'm trying to think if easier is the right word, but we'll just go with it. I think it's easier to to have a mindful practice or to go wayfinding, if you will, um, when you don't have so many inputs.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Yeah. You know, like that. It's hard to pay attention to other things. It's hard to notice, it's hard to cultivate an awareness or be curious about your own thoughts when you're like you said, when you're listening to somebody else's, even just sounds. It was hard when I did my first wayfinding day and I started in Santa Monica, and it was just like chaos. It was fun, but it was like I I couldn't pay attention to anything other than like what people saying and people riding by and on bikes really fast, and I was just all distracted, right? So I think I think that's part of it for me, is that and I think it's part of the intention. If you if you're going because you want to have some time with yourself listening to music, then that's the intention for the walk, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

If you're gonna go and listen to, you know, some motivational something or a book that you like, and it's gonna walk really fast and have it be a good exercise, then that's the intention, and that's great. But I think it's hard to do all of the above at the same time. I think you kind of have to pick.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Yeah. You you write about seeking yourself out, seeing into the window of your soul rather than just seeing out and around yourself. Can you explain that?

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Yeah, so for me, that's easier to do on longer walks. Because I I think like and because I think that as as humans, we often pay attention to all the all the things around us, right? So even if we're not listening to music or an audiobook or something like that, or talking with a friend as we're walking, there's still things that are inputs. There's all the physical senses, all the sights and sounds, smells. If you're in a city, you know, there's even more probably they're different, they're louder sometimes. Though I just got back from a hike uh at the last coast and the ocean can be really loud. I discovered I'm like, wow, the waves were so, so loud. And so I didn't I was really distracted from my own thoughts. So to look into my own self or my own window of my soul, if you will, happens after a longer period of time for me. So, like on the wayfinding days, I'll walk for a few hours, and then I'm less I'm more able to turn off, maybe, or more able to not notice as much all the external things. And then I am quiet enough where I can pay attention to my own self and what's coming up for me, and whether, you know, maybe it's questions, maybe it's you know, wonderings, maybe it's thoughts or ideas, maybe it's just, you know, I see a sign and I follow the thread of you know, of thinking. Um, but I think I learn more about myself once I settle in. Um and that can sometimes take a little longer.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

So the book is meant to be interactive, interactive. Um you read the the chapters are really short and you practice the concepts, the concepts, you ask questions, um, that you can as you walk, you can ponder the questions. Um one of the simpler uh exercises was to take a walk around your neighborhood and imagine it as a feast for your senses. And I'd say it's simpler, but you really do have to pay attention.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Yeah. Yeah, you have to, I mean, it takes work to pay attention, really.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

I did that one. I was interrupted by a neighbor who was also walking. And so it quickly. But but I did actually do that one, and one of the questions was what do you hear? So it's like, what do you see? What do you hear? What do you smell? And uh I was uh intrigued by the fact that uh one of the sounds that I liked most was hearing my footsteps. And is that something you've encountered?

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Yeah, you know, when for me, if I pick one, if I try to focus on one sense, let's say the sounds, right? All of a sudden I hear things I didn't hear before. Like they were there, but I just wasn't noticing them. So yeah, it might be I hear I hear my heartbeat in my in my head, right? Or maybe um there's you know, if I walk my neighborhood, there's a loop I like to walk. I might hear the kids playing and laughing on the playground because I walk by a school, and then I might hear, you know, cars going by. I might hear somebody mowing a lawn, or maybe they're building something in their garage. So there's machinery or whatever. Occasionally I'll hear the far away sound of the train that passes through our town. And if I'm listening, I'll hear it. Otherwise, I won't. It's not like it's louder, it's just that I just have come to ignore it because it happens, you know. Yes, yeah. So I like that, and and it does come with practice, I think. Same with seeing, like, like I mentioned, you know, the the exercise of walking around and doing a rainbow walk. When you're looking for the color orange, yeah, you see the color orange. Yeah. Where before you were like, there's nothing orange in my neighborhood. I know. And then there were all these orange things. Yeah. So it's interesting. So when you when you were walking and you noticed your footsteps, yeah, and what?

SPEAKER_00 33:56

It was it was rhythmic. Let me see if I can find because I did put it in my notes. So let me go check my notes real quick, and I can tell you um what did you hear? Okay. Um, I hear my footsteps, and for some reason I like that sound. It feels rhythmic. That is what I wrote. So and I oh yeah, so you noticed and you liked it.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Yeah. It was rhythm rhythm.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Yeah, like I didn't need so I'm I'm always walking, I usually with music, but this time I I had nothing in my ears, and I found that as I was walking, the footsteps just sounded like it synchronized with all of me. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah. So I really like the I like the order of the book. I know um readers can choose their own order, um, but the sequence makes sense to me. Um and so I we've been kind of jumping around. I didn't mean to, but we have been. Um and so as you go through the book and you get up to uh chapter eight, I think it is, um you uh the attention turns to what's happening in the body as you walk, which which is our favorite topic on this on this podcast. And and from the from the sequence of the book, it seems like the logical next step, as you say. My body is always talking to me, uh, so to speak. My knees and hips complain when I walk. My stomach is usually hungry and telling me so. The first wayfinding day I walked this year had me experiencing fatigue in a way I hadn't previously. I noticed I was tired. I was in a hurry to get this long walk over because I feared I was developing a blister. I slowed down and noticed that as my steps became more deliberate, I also became more thoughtful. So you start with your physical embodied experience and then move inward to thoughts and feelings. So my question is, were you were your thoughts focused on the pain? Could you think of anything else? Or were you kind of stuck just thinking about the pain?

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Well, you know, so it's interesting. Because I have had a lot of joint pain, that kind of pain I notice, and most of the time, like if it if it were to the point where all I could do is think about it, I'd probably stop. I'd be like, call my husband, come pick me up. I'm 12 miles away and this is not working anymore, so come get me. But you know, no, but sometimes I'll turn around. Sometimes I'll be like, this isn't gonna happen. But I haven't ever gotten stuck. So that's good. Yeah, yeah. But but so that kind of pain doesn't get stuck. But what was interesting was this the fear of developing the blister was what got stuck. My foot didn't really, my toes or heel or wherever, I don't even remember now. I think it was my heels. I was it had been raining, so it was a little bit wet, it was a little soppy, and I think I was concerned. So what happened was not that my feet hurt or the blister hurt, it was that I was worried I'd get one and that wouldn't go away. And I'm like, golly, this is just not this is not very mindful. This is not very specific. This is mindful with capital full, right? Like I'm all I'm doing is thinking about like, oh, should I change my socks? Or oh, should I do that? That's what I was wondering about. Maybe I should have worn different shoes. So I was like, okay. So once so I think I think I probably I think I took my socks off and checked, and I was okay, and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna be alright. But let's just slow down a little bit and see if you I can get back into the rhythm.

SPEAKER_03 38:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Maybe like you were saying, the rhythm of my steps, but just like let's let's refocus here. And I was able to to let it go. So it wasn't so much the pain, is but the fear of pain. Yeah. Messed it up for me. Yeah. And and that is interesting, you know, the the actual pain I can handle, but the worrying about it, I wasn't so good at. So I had to just kind of regroup and reset and say, okay, I have a choice here. I can be miserable for the rest of this trip. And I was walking, I did a that particular day was a one-way out. We have like a it's like an old Pacific electric tramway kind of thing that now's become biking and walking trails. And and I was gonna walk out, yeah, it was 12 or 13 miles, and then I was gonna take the train back. So I was gonna walk to the train station out here and then ride the train back. So I knew I had the plan of where I was gonna go. And I thought, well, the rest of this can be terrible, or I can just try to refocus and regroup and and I was able to, you know, I felt fortunate. I took a rest, I ate a snack, I you know, looked at my feet, made sure they were okay, and then just said, okay, I'm just gonna walk more slowly. And then it and then it was fine, actually. I didn't get a blister, it was all right, and um I think I just needed to reset mid-stream, mid-walk.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Mindover matter.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Yeah, I mean I think that yeah, that the thing is with I mean, people who I know who practice more traditional forms of meditation, they're not perfect at it. You know, some days are a total bust when it comes to like really focusing and meditating, and other days they're really able to. So I think that's the same with me too, in terms of the locking. Some days it's like, ah, I really kind of connected, and other days I'm disconnected and I'm all over the place. And so then I in this particular case, it was a long walk, so I had enough time to say, okay, let's start over and try again.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

And I was able to, so that was good.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Yeah, slowing down I I find help sometimes too. A lot, most times. Um, I hurt my knee and my calf the other day, and I've been going on hikes, but slowly, and it's okay. Mm-hmm. You mentioned in chapter 12, practice, practice, practice. As opposed to, do you find that people tend to dislike practicing? And if so, why do you think that is? And it's an important question, um, especially for this podcast. Uh sorry, before before you respond. Because um we're I'm always talking about how to be consistent and the fact that you know it's consistency that matters more than perfection, which kind of what you just said, you know, um even people who meditate often, you know, they're not always perfect at it, but you can regroup, restart. And that's one of the themes on the podcast. And not just because I'm preaching, because I am not an expert, and I'm not even a teacher. I'm just someone who is interested in walking for my own sake, for my own benefit, and sharing what I'm learning with others. Practice, practice, practice. It, you know, it's that it's that idea of being consistent. And so I I I'd love to hear from a coach why you think people don't like to practice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

So so I think that what happens sometimes in terms of practice from a coaching perspective is that people want to do it, right? They want to do whatever they want to get up every morning and walk because that the idea of it sounds really good. Um, so it's not that they that there isn't an a desire, but that they haven't figured out how to make it a little easier to do. Something gets in the way. I don't I'm not even so sure that you know it's motivation or things like that. I think that it's actually just being able to make make your day so that you can go walking. That's gonna be easier to make it consistent. If you don't have, if you haven't scheduled it or haven't moved things around to have a half an hour, you know, Monday, Wednesday, Friday afternoons, it's gonna be hard to walk on Monday, Wednesday, Friday afternoons because something else will get in the way.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

And then from a coaching perspective, it's trying to connect the desire with the how are you gonna actually do it? Um, and there's a lot of interesting research that it's not just saying, well, next, you know, I'm gonna walk Monday, Wednesday, Tuesday. Well, when? Like, what are you gonna do to be ready for that? How are you, you know, oh, you're gonna put when are you gonna put it in your calendar? So when, okay, so all the little steps that it takes to actually, oh, you don't know where your shoes are? Well, when are you gonna find your shoes? Oh, your socks, you need a new pair of socks, when are you gonna get your new pair of socks, right? So putting all the things in order to make it just sort of like, oh, I can just go walk now because I've made a place in my schedule. So it's not just that I want to, but I've also made it possible or fewer things to get in the way. The other thing is is to sometimes with coaching is to ask someone, like, Well, what are you gonna do if something gets in the way? So that you can. You can plan for that. Well, like, you know, okay, you wanted to go um do the sights and sounds of your walk, and then your neighbor was there, right? What are you gonna do? Well, maybe maybe you stop and you talk to your neighbor, right? Or maybe you say, Hey, uh, this is great, but I'll see you tomorrow, and then you go continue, right? So thinking about that ahead of time can help if something gets in the way.

SPEAKER_03 44:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Um, and then it's more likely to be able to carry it. So that's an interesting thing, I think, from a coaching perspective. Asking people, well, what could get in the way and what are you gonna do about it? Yeah. So anticipate it, right, and then make a plan. Um I think sometimes there's interesting studies around um commitment devices and accountability and things like that. There's also research about you know making things easy or simple, doing a really the the the consistency is key, but also well, maybe just go walk around the block. Start with that and make that regular as opposed to I'm gonna walk for an hour. That's a lot harder. That's a heavier lift, you know. So, in terms of practice, and even as a music teacher, I was like, hey, if you can pick up your flute every day for 15 minutes, that you know, it you you'd be better if you played for half an hour, but 15 minutes every day is better than one twice a week for an hour. Even though the time's the same, it's starting small is really helpful, um, and then doing it more often. And even just the whole even the muscle memory part, you know, like if we're doing, I mean, I'm not a you know, I'm not trained in athletics or anything, but like I certainly from my own experience, if if I walk as I'm getting ready to do a big walk, it makes it easier. Because, you know, if I wait and do a huge walk the day before, that's not gonna help. I'm gonna be sore, right? So there's lots of things I think, but but trying to figure out not just what we want to do in our head, but also how are we gonna make it happen in a practical sense. And what are the things we have to do to be ready and what could get in the way and and how are we gonna make it happen? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Yeah. Okay. All right. That's good advice. Does that answer your question? Yes, yes, it does. Thank you, Leon. Okay, so our final quote um always be on the lookout for the presence of wonder. I I just love that quote. I just stare at those words. How has walking helped you cultivate a sense of wonder in your own life?

SPEAKER_01 46:44

That's such a beautiful question. You know, I think in some ways it's the moments when I wasn't able to walk, like when I was recovering from my hip surgery. Um, and I had a stress fracture after that. Like it was a whole series of like uh so then I would sit at the window, like, okay, I can't go walk, what am I gonna do instead? Then when I was able to come back to walking, being able to really appreciate it. I mean, for me in a weird way, I think wonder is linked to gratitude, the sense of appreciation and openness to just notice and see what what I might see and hear and and experience on this walk today. And that to me is the the wonderful part is that that it's it's not boring, and every time I go I I notice something different. And sometimes it's about myself and sometimes it's you know about my neighborhood or you know, wherever I'm I'm doing that walking. But I think that the the walking has allowed me the opportunity to pay attention, which is the first part of the book, right? That leads you to the wonder and like an awe of of kind of being live, which sounds maybe a little sappy, but I do think that um that walking has has offered that to me, which I feel pretty fortunate about.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

All right. Well, thank you so much for talking with us today, sharing your book with us. Is there anything else you'd like to share? How can people get in touch with you? Um, for your coaching, how can people get your book, please?

SPEAKER_01 48:25

Sure. So so my book's available on Amazon, Bards and Noble, Audible, Apple Books. Um, in some libraries, um, sometimes you can even ask your library and they'll get a copy, which I think is kind of cool. So it's in paperback and and Kindle and Audible format. I guess you can get it on Nook too, which is kind of cool. Um and I my website is wildwayfinding.com. And you can get in touch with me through my website. I also just especially for those of us who are of a certain age and we're starting to realize our bodies are getting older and they aren't always as cooperative as they might have been when we were younger. I started a blog called Hip Hiker after my hip surgery. Um that just it's part of it is story and chronicling adventures I take, but also it's encouraging people to to get active and continue to be active and hike and walk and backpack in the outdoors. And so that's at hiphiker.com. Um, you can get in touch with me either way, but that might be something for someone who's just like, oof, I'm feeling old and decrepit.

SPEAKER_02 49:33

I want to know there are other people who aren't doing this anyway. Um, so that would be that'd be fun.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

And I'd love to talk about walking and hear your adventures as well.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

Yes, and I'm looking forward to following your podcast. Oh, thank you, Leo. And I I'd love for you to come back and tell us about the Camino.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Oh, absolutely. Totally. I would be I would be happy to do that. That would be super fun.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

All right.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

Well, thank you so much. Thank you again. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Leah today as much as I did, listeners. And if you'd like to learn more about Leah, her coaching work, and her book, you'll find the links in the show notes. I hope today's conversation inspires you to step outside, look around, and maybe discover something unexpected on your next slide. Until next time, keep putting one foot in front of the other, keep working.