Karon and Harvey Mathies

On this episode we are joined by two of the finest people you will ever hope to meet. Karon and Harvey Mathies have been running, racing and volunteering for close to 20 years and they love to share the stories and experiences that they have gained along the way. This interview will give you a new appreciation for what is possible in life and show you that if you treat every day and every year as a gift you will never fear aging or growing old. 

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Thank you to the Burning Hell for the use of their song Holidaymakers. Check them out at 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Karen and Harvey Mathies are well-known faces around the Saskatchewan running team. I would call them legends, in fact. Whether they are racing or volunteering, they are always putting a smile on people's faces. Having started running around 50 years of age, they are still going strong and are a true inspiration and an example of how aging can be done in a fun and awesome way where we continue to challenge ourselves and treat every day as a gift. This interview is packed with insights and knowledge. I hope you're not going to run this episode of the Saskatchewan Run podcast. We're joined by Karen and Harvey Matthews. How are you guys doing today?

SPEAKER_04 1:09

Great. We're doing well.

SPEAKER_05 1:11

Thanks so much for coming on the podcast today. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

Well, we appreciate it too, man. I can't believe that we uh might have to be on the podcast.

SPEAKER_05 1:23

I think you guys are pretty legendary, and there's been lots lots of requests for you. And I you were you were on my list before there were requests. So I'm excited to have you. Thank you. All right. Why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about yourselves?

SPEAKER_04 1:38

Well, I'll let Karen go first. All right.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Where do you want to end? How far back do you want to start? I didn't grow up in Saskatchewan. I grew up in Africa. So my my idea of running was more about I didn't, that was not part of my growing up, was athletics at all. So it was just a different uh culture. And and so that was kind of how I grew up. And then I came to Saskatchewan and married a farmer. And uh and then, you know, just slowly I still didn't have any idea. I thought the only reason you ran was to, well, what a lot for me was body image. So I ran only to to see if I was gonna lose weight. Okay. And so that was huge for me. And that was that was my motivation. Although I didn't really even like that. I usually ran from the car to the house because it was cold. And so my first time I ever ran, I thought maybe I well, Harve told me at a race, he says, Karen, you either stop buying gear or you have to start running. So I thought, okay, just start running. So I ran a 10K and not realizing that you maybe you should take some training in this, so just thought, oh, I'll just do a 10K or whatever. So that was kind of the start. Started when I was 50. And um, and we had kids, so we didn't really, you know, I didn't venture out to do any extra big, big events or anything. That was just kind of what we did. And that's kind of how it started.

SPEAKER_05 3:17

Uh-huh. And then backtracking a little bit, since that sounds like a pretty interesting origin story, where in Africa were you born?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

I was born Mali, West Africa. Okay. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 3:31

And then what brought you to Saskatchewan?

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Uh well, when I was 18, my parents were missionaries. So when I was 18, then there was no other option to be there. So then we came to Saskatchewan. I went to college, and I was friends with Harve's sister and his cousin. And that's kind of how we got to know each other. And that's what brought me to Saskatchewan. My parents are from Saskatchewan. My dad was from Langham, actually. So Saskatchewan was kind of the place to kind of settle down and and put roots.

SPEAKER_05 4:02

Uh-huh. And then you came all the way across the ocean and found this beautiful guy to marry.

SPEAKER_04 4:06

So that's yeah, sometimes traveling is worth it.

SPEAKER_05 4:11

Yeah. So how old were you guys when you met then?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

I was 18.

SPEAKER_05 4:17

Um, you were 18, yep.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

And you were well, I was 20, I was 22. I was 23 and got married.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Uh, we had a very quick get to know each other. Um I I met Karen in February, and uh and then school was out, and I saw her a couple times because it was about a 50 we about a 50-mile drive to the school from our farm. Okay. So I saw her a couple times, three or four times, I guess, before school was out. And then she went back to Manitoba, where she was living at the time, and working, she worked for the summer there. And um and she came out. Um, I went up once to see her, and then she came out to see me in July. And it's back in the day when she came on the Greyhound, and the Greyhound bus would stop on the Trans-Canada Highway out in the middle of the country, and you better have someone there to pick you up. So she got dropped off at two in the morning, and I was there to pick her up. And uh, and you nowadays you think it's kind of strange that people just drop someone off out in the country. I mean, there's nothing around there, yeah. So I I picked her up, and and on the way, she was going to stay at my sister's place, which was about a 30-minute drive from our farm. And um, so she was staying there, and on the way in, I said, you know, this long distance dating, it's it's tough. Why don't we get married? You want to marry me? So that was so that was about uh five months after I met her. I asked her to if she wanted to get married, and yeah, she said sure. So then a year after we met, we were married. Oh, that's awesome. A fairly quick turnaround. There's no sense wasting time.

SPEAKER_05 5:59

Yeah, that's right. Maybe that late night drop off is why you guys enjoy the the late night sweep so much now at when you already says it brings back memories. Oh that's a good yes, yeah, for sure. And then um, Karen, you had mentioned you started running when you were 50.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

I did, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:16

Okay, so what did you did you guys do anything at like um athletic or adventury, like as young adults and into middle age or no?

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Um, well, Harv made Harv ran before I did. Okay. I he was running with some guys from Herbert or Hepurn. Um, but I I had never run for any reason except maybe two or three K here or there. Okay. But that was just not not something that that even interested me. I was like, I don't I don't it wasn't in my wheelhouse at all as to something that might even happen.

SPEAKER_04 6:54

Yeah, for sure. So running kind of got started, I think, is more for almost more of a social thing. You know, I had some friends that were running, and I kind of wanted to do something with them. Um, so I started running. Um, and until we I was um 49, I guess. I was 49. So I thought, you know what, I'll run with these guys and I'm gonna start training for the Sask Marathon, uh, which was back then was in May. And um, so that's when I first started. I I had so I trained for a year, and then when I was 50 years old, I I ran my first um marathon. And the first marathon I did was in Saskatoon here, and I didn't complete it, got to 30k, and that was I walked home. Matter of fact, I remember flagging a caught down, asked if you give me right back to the start line, and he was happy to do that. And then uh at that point, then it was I went to Regina whenever the Queen City was. I don't know if it was in fall or if it was earlier at that time. But anyway, so then I went and did the Queen City, and there I completed the marathon. And um, so so I was 50 when I ran my first one too, and that's the only marathon I run. After that, I really kind of got into uh into trail running. I like the dirt better than the pavement.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 8:15

And um because you're in my my growing up here was so different than Karen. I mean, I grew up on the farm. Uh we were had a lot of cattle and stuff, but we my dad didn't really like horses, so he had a bunch of boys that could just run all day and chase cattle and so honestly, I I grew up doing a lot of running. Okay. Um, but so our backgrounds were were quite different. And then uh Karen, she came on, but she was the same age, she's a little younger than me, a couple years, but she she started after I started running, she did catch the fever because I she did like the whole atmosphere of coming to the races and stuff. So then uh she found a friend and she started running and and then she ran her first marathon.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

And uh well, and part of it was I did not like to run outside. So the treadmill was what I could do. And I thought, okay, if I have to learn to run outside, I have to go to somewhere where I'm gonna take a clinic that we have to run outside. And so that's that's how I learned to run outside. And I had just done the half marathon, and I thought, I can't keep doing this if I can't run outside. And so that's what uh so then I went to the running room, and I think they looked at me and thought, because I could hardly keep up with the group that was running this half marathon that or whatever they were doing for training. And I think they wondered, you ran a half marathon, how could you do that? Like, but I that was where I learned everything about running outside, the clothes, everything. It was the best thing that ever happened. Um, and we had the best coach um who was just there for everyone, and he was in the running room. You have they had the coaches had to be there three times a week, I think, to to run with you. And so I always I always say the reason I'm running today is because of him. My love of running came because of him, because he was so so inclusive. And to this day, he I always say that's why that's why I started started running outside and keeping it.

SPEAKER_05 10:28

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, just having that person to help you out right when you started, and who knows if you could have been a different experience if the person that was coaching you or teaching like you need to hit it off or whatever, and yeah, that's yeah, that's so good. So after you guys started that, um, you mentioned you got more into trail running. What do you remember? Kind of uh what what that was about like 20 years ago? I I don't know your exact yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

It was I ran my first trail run in left bridge at Los Souls Ultra and uh in 2011. Okay. And uh so I I had a couple of friends here from town. I told we we knew very little about trail running at that time.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

It wasn't very popular, popular.

SPEAKER_04 11:12

And but I had a friend here that had had gone to law lost souls and he had run it. He said, Harv, you should try this dirt running. He said, It's fun. So I kind of caught the fever and I started running on the lower trails here in Saskatoon, and and I prepared, but I I'm the kind of a runner who nobody wants to listen to, and they shouldn't, because I do everything wrong. Oh I thought, you know what, I gotta start with a hundred miler. Yeah, I have done many 5k, many 10k, many half marathons, you know, in the city and for all the fun runs and stuff like that. But um that that was you know, I did the one marathon, and and that's the limit to my distance. And now all of a sudden I was gonna, yeah, I can do a hundred mile. And uh, so that was my first thing. I started uh uh training and I ran uh the lost souls hundred mile, but I didn't complete it. Oh I only got um 46 uh kilometers or 46 miles into it, and that was the end of that first race of mine. That was the first one ever.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Because you had so much trouble cramping.

SPEAKER_04 12:18

And I was cramping so bad. I mean, like everybody has their own reasons for dropping. And uh, so anyway, so then um Karen said, you know, Harm, I think what we should do is maybe you gotta maybe not have such a big goal, and maybe next year you and I will run the 100k together. Okay. So uh, and and Karen's always been a more consistent, better runner than me. Um so we we start we trained through the year, and the next year her and I ran the 100k at Law Souls, and it was a real experience. It was the first one we'd ever finished of that length.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

And uh I had never run, I didn't even know what that meant to really run trails. I was doing I was doing triathlons, so I just thought, let's just do this. And I didn't know what I was doing really, but I thought, well, just do this, and then I because that's what that wasn't even my wheelhouse yet. But yeah, so we decided to do it together.

SPEAKER_04 13:17

Yeah, so that was our that was our first uh long run, and and it was really fun. Like we had done before that there was a there was a a race in Eston here. It's called the River, Eston River Trek.

SPEAKER_05 13:31

Oh, yeah, I've heard of this, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:33

You remember that?

SPEAKER_05 13:34

I don't I was before I was a runner, but I remember um we camped near there or something, and I always remember I've heard other people mention this this race as well. It sounds like it was pretty fun.

SPEAKER_04 13:44

Well, it was a pretty fun race. It was I I give all the credit to that community. They used it as a fundraiser for their arena, and the mayor at that time, and he did it for quite a number of years while he was mayor, he was making sure it happened. It was the run itself was was kind of a bad run, it was all on gravel and you hit the basics. So it was a little bit of a hard run to to call a trail run. Yeah, but uh, anyways, we had done that for four or five times before we did this this uh the lost soul. So we had done a little bit before, but that we always thought of it, well, this isn't really racing, we're just going out here to have some fun, yeah. And uh so lost souls was our definitely our first one, and and yeah, we have a very soft um nice spot for lost souls in Lethbridge.

SPEAKER_05 14:35

For sure. You guys still volunteer there most years too, don't you?

SPEAKER_04 14:38

Well, we don't do much. The reason we don't volunteer much there is because we like we run every year. Oh, right, yeah, yeah. So we we get I have to say we haven't volunteered much at um I don't think we volunteered at all there. Like at Beaver, we have you know, Beaver Flat we have, and yeah, Hollow Reecer uh we have, but at other races, but not at Lost Souls.

SPEAKER_05 15:01

Okay, yeah, you're still still competing out there. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:05

And so the the time will come when we well, I'm not sure. I don't want the time to come yet.

SPEAKER_05 15:10

No, that's right. And Karen, you mentioned that you were doing triathlon. So is that kind of where you went after your your first half marathon? And then in between that and your first hundred K at Lost Souls, you were competing in triathlon?

SPEAKER_00 15:23

I did, because my daughter said, Mom, we should we should do a triathlon. And I had never swam, I didn't even know how to swim. So I thought, well, they'll teach me how to swim. So we'll get to the pool, and they said, Um, I didn't even know how to put my face in the water or any of that, didn't know what that meant. And but they said, Well, you're gonna do a hundred-meter time trial. So I didn't know either. So four minutes later, I was flashing and sputtering, but we sit through, and so then I did traffons for a two or three years, did Frank Dunn and and Blake and different ones like that, uh, until we started trail running, and then I couldn't, I just felt like with working and triathlons and trying to get a trail run for that distance, it just couldn't do it all. So just kind of focused on trails because it's something we could do together, and so yeah, it obvious obviously set you up with a good base though, because you yeah, crush that.

SPEAKER_05 16:19

And so you guys would have been in your mid-50s when you did your first hundred K?

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Um, I was 56. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:27

Geez, so or 57. Mid to late, yeah, mid to late 50s.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

That one because you were 61. You were 61.

SPEAKER_04 16:33

Well, no, the first 100k yeah will have been will have been 2010. Or 2011 or 12. 11 or I've just forget 11 or 12. Yeah. So that would have been your hundred miles. Yeah, so it'll be about 60 or 59 when it did the first one. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. So when you hear people, yeah, we were definitely late starters, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:54

So sometimes you'll hear people in their 30s or 40s say that they're too old to run a half marathon or a marathon or or any distance. So you guys are proof that yeah, that's that's so good.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Because they think about it too much. My model has always been it's amazing what you can do when you don't know what you can't do. That's right. Yeah, just don't think it a whole lot. You plot you just go out and say, Yeah, I'm gonna do that, and then you figure out how you're gonna do that. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, if you think about it too much, then you won't do it because it'll be too scary.

SPEAKER_05 17:25

That's right, yeah. I feel like people sometimes forget what the human body is made for and capable of, being that we have so many luxuries and conveniences in modern living. So it's good to get back to those basics.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

And I think sometimes you you you don't venture out. Some people just need to know and what they're getting into. And I never had that, I didn't even realize that you should really train for these things ahead of time. You should maybe start with 50k and then 100k and then 100 mile. That's probably the progression you should people do, but I don't know, it just didn't seem like that was gonna happen. So we just came in and did whatever.

SPEAKER_05 18:08

And then you've also done a hundred miler, is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 18:11

I did, yeah. For my 60th birthday, oh that's amazing. That's what I wanted to do. I wanted to try to do this the 100 mile, and I was able to get it. Awesome. And which one was that again? That was a lost souls. Oh, the last soul 100 miler. Awesome, yeah, yeah. And I just I loved, I think that's why I love it so much because it it's just kind of the the race that has kind of had those pivotal moments for us that have been amazing. And I haven't been able to do a hundred miles since because I was leaning, and when I came in, they said, Are you okay? And I, well, I was at the last aid station, and somebody said, Are you okay? And I said, Yeah, why? They said, You're leaning. And I said, Really? I am. But after that, I was very aware of how my body leans after a certain amount of time. Yep. And so since then I haven't been able to complete the 100 mile because I I lean too much. Um it leans to the left. Another word she breaks down. Yeah, it breaks down, it collapses. Okay, my whole body collapses to the left. Yep. So it doesn't hurt, it just doesn't work. Okay. So you can't continue.

SPEAKER_05 19:19

So how many other times would you have tried?

SPEAKER_00 19:22

I think three other times I I attempted. One year I opted to do 100k instead of 100 mile because of a rain, rainstorm, and they said you can either uh go back out, and I should have gone back out. That was silly of me. That was more of a like, I don't want to DNF, so I did 100K, which I completed and took a final rock instead of um waiting three hours or four hours and then going back out to finish the last one on a road. So that was yeah, but so that was where my I didn't get that last hundred mile. Okay, yeah. A lot of it's mental too. Yeah. Yep, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 20:02

And for those who aren't familiar, and when you finish Lost Soul, you get like a nice custom kind of a field stone with an engraving on, right? Right. Yeah. So how many of those do you guys have combined? Oh, I think we have about 20. We have a lot. And you have them a nice little collection in the yard? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:19

Well, you know, we get people walking by the yard. We have all these rocks on our in the the garden bed, this flower bed there. And I think they think we're some kind of a cult.

SPEAKER_05 20:29

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, we still have one of, I don't know if it's mine or Melissa's when when we did the 100k, but right on our front step, we still proudly display it. So it's yeah, that's a really awesome keepsake.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

It's so unique, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:45

All right. Well, what other um adventurous places have you gone for races? I know you guys are quite quite storied in your racing history, so why don't you tell us some interesting things?

SPEAKER_04 20:58

We could go on there for a long, long time. Oh, yeah, so we did so um right now we've both done about the same. I've done uh like on race roster and ultra sign up. I just count them. We've done 25 or 26 ultras. Uh Karen's done the same, and then there's been a lot of ultras that we've done that are not through race roster or ultra sign-up, they're just different things, so kind of lost track of all of them. But they've all been so fun and so memorable. But the uh we we think that the best one was because it was so different. We did Fat Dog, we did the uh 50 miler at Fat Dog, and it is uh I would say it's probably one of the most rugged races uh that you'd want to do like for us. And it was um, but it was so much fun. You had some really nice elevation, you had some incredible um uh incredible scenes and stuff. Uh and it and because it was our very um it was so remote, we'd never been in an area, like we were used to doing things like Lost Souls or like Beaver Flat or things in the country like where you can see things. We weren't used to doing big races in the mountains. We had done because I think we hadn't even done Sinister at that time yet. And um, so it it was just, you know, as we ran through the day and through the night, um, it was just such a super experience to to experience that mountain and the cliffs, and you know, and I gotta say, and the fear of what's happening here, like you know, it's pretty scary sometime, at least for me it is, at the nighttime. Yeah, and you got this little tunnel ahead of you, and and you hear every noise out there, even if it isn't there. And uh, so that was that was an extremely memorable, adventurous time. We've had a lot of them, but I think that one we have to say was um kind of our I don't know if our pinnacle because I could give you other really exciting ones too. But that was just it was just different and a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

A lot of sinister too. Like we've done Sinister and several, I've been we've done the 50. My very first race at Sinister was a relay with a bunch of girls, and I hadn't I had never trail run, had done any trail runs before then. So that was my first experience with trail running, and I did a leg, and then I thought after that, I'm gonna keep doing it on my own and see how far I get. And so every year I've never yet been able to finish the hundred mile. Um, and I I've attempted several times, but every year I thought it doesn't matter if I finish, it was I wonder how far I can get. And every year I'd try really hard to get to that hundred, and I got to leg six, and I got timed out. But um, so every year I got stronger, but it was just my goal to to get farther and farther. And then they came in with the 50 miler, which was perfect because then it was kind of longer than the 50 that they didn't have a 50k then. So then that was just that was that is a beautiful distance, very manageable, but not no huge time cutoffs, like yeah, a little more reasonable. Yeah, just it's so that one I've done a few times because I've loved it. And then last year I picked up a bib for a 50k. So I did so we've done several there, but I love the terrain there too. It's just so gorgeous. It never it's always changing.

SPEAKER_04 24:36

So I think one of our fun stories too is it wasn't fun at the time, but we uh we did the first when they did the minotaur at the Crows Nest Pass when they started that race. Well, we did the we did the 10K. Uh, but we had been up there uh we were up there the year before. I mean, we always go to Crows Nest for something and to and to train and hike and stuff. So we thought, well, we'll do the we'll do the Minotaur, just let's do it and see what it feels like. So uh the race director, he said, Well, he said, we'll take you up and you can see where it's like, what it's like. Uh we took off from Blairmore and got across and started going up the hill, up the mountain, and within a few minutes, this guy and his daughter, they were gone. They were mountain runners, and we never saw them again. And they disappeared, and we didn't have a clue because there's no real trail. Uh, it's a brand new race. And all we knew is he said you hit that ridge and you go to the top, reach the summit, and then you come back down. We we couldn't, when you're in the mountains and in the trees, you can't see that ridge.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Well, they weren't allowed to have uh flags of any kind.

SPEAKER_04 25:51

Also at that time, because it was before the race, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:54

But you we just eventually figured out that you, if there was a cutoff in a tree that that then that would have been part of the route. But it took us about two and a half hours to figure out how people know Harbo with his good um uh mountaineering skills could figure out like footprints and things. That was the only thing we had, and we got to the cliff and Har says, We're quitting, I'm done. And I said, We've been way too far, we're not quitting. So we just ventured out to the top of this hill, this mountain, and it definitely was not the path. About three quarters of the way up, we found the path.

SPEAKER_04 26:34

So as we were as we were trying to find our way up onto the ridge, we ended up going all around. I don't know if you know uh Crozen's paths, but where you have uh Turtle Mountain, the mountain that caved in and covered the the mountain, that whole town. Yeah, yeah. Frank slide. Yep. Um, well, we went so far off that we were already in Frank and we were looking down on the town, and all all on the way, like we were walking on sides of hills and cliffs that we should not be on. But, anyways, then I realized okay, this is wrong. So I thought, okay, we gotta get out of here. Yeah, then on the way back, then we did find a way. All of a sudden, we found I I noticed this this tree had a limb cut off. And I said, Well, I go to see that's man-made. So we went in that direction and we hit this ridge and we started going up, and then all the way up to the top, they had these um what do you call these piles of rocks? Uh neck, a nuckshikes, nuk chicks or whatever. They had the kind of made different places all the way to the top on this ridge because you're above the tree line, and there's and uh so we got to the summit, but the problem is this whole race should take a maximum of well, for a poor runner like us, three hours, but it shouldn't take for most guys who are doing it in a couple of hours, two and a half hours. Well, here we got to the top, and it was eight hours already. We've been all and we didn't have a clue. So I I I phoned down and I phoned the guys at uh at the the race director, and I he said, Man, you're home. And no, I said, We just made it to the summit. I said, Oh, we don't know how to get off here. Well, he he was kind of worried. He said, If you don't get off there before dark, he said, You're not coming off. He said, There's so many cliffs coming down. He said, You don't dare take off without knowing where you're going. And but he gave us directions, and thank goodness we found the directions, and we we we found the trail, and within a half hour we were back off the mountain because it's only 10k, 5k up, and then five down. So it's really coming down, it's just uh a mountain bike trail. So we ran down pretty easy and pretty quickly. But that was probably one of our scariest times of getting lost. We always get lost, but it was one of our scariest times. It was yeah, and and then the next year we did the Minotaur, and it was great. Yeah, you know, we both great range, we both brag about it because we both podiumed, and uh, but we don't tell how many other people are racing on our age group.

SPEAKER_05 29:11

Well, that's all right, that's still a hell of an accomplishment. Yeah, I like like how dangerous that is out there at home. If you get off course, you might get some ticks and burrs, but out there you fall down a cliff or oh it it is rock slides.

SPEAKER_04 29:26

Well, you hear how many times do you hear every year where someone's fallen off a cliff or gotten hurt? That's right, it's always possible. And yeah, and uh, if you aren't prepared for that and uh in the mountains, you're gonna you could really get into serious troubles. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

I was well, and when when Harvard gone ahead of me, that was one thing, Harvard gone ahead of me and hung onto this tree of this rock, and he put his foot on it was solid, so he went up, so I went up behind him. I put I hung onto the tree, I put my foot on the same rock, but the rock totally went away. Oh no, all I was doing was hanging onto this this tree, and I I lost my sunglasses in it, but I was like, that is pretty scary because if that if that would have been a that was a juniper, so if all of a sudden that had given way, I'd have been down the mountain. But goodness, it was a solid tree, tree branch, and that was the only thing that saved me to get up up that and I asked Susan later, I said, So Susan, is this the path? No, she said that's the path to get to the top. Yep. We do, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:35

Yeah, yeah. Tricky stuff. Tricky stuff. I know when I was in Wadderton last year, I was just I don't remember what trail I was on, but the it seemed like the trail just led to like this rocky cliff, and I just like looked over and I'm like, must have to go down there, I guess. And I was like trying to think of a way to like crawl down this cliff, and then some guys like, oh no, the trail's that way. And it was I just didn't see it because it was kind of just like a back and forth thing that went down this other part of the mountain. But people would go on the trail to just overlook this cliff, right?

SPEAKER_03 31:02

So but I didn't see where it turned when I turned left.

SPEAKER_05 31:06

Yeah, and yeah, so that was that was kind of my first time alone in the mountain, so it's I almost was my first and last, but I made it out okay.

SPEAKER_04 31:13

Well, that's pretty scary when that happens. And uh we've done like when we went uh a couple years ago, we were in Waterton and we heard they had this uh triple crown or something. Okay. So if you do three, if you do Acamena, if you do Cameron and Crypt Lake, okay, yeah, yeah. All three summer, all three in well in a summer, but we only had three days, we get them in three days, yeah. And and boy, I'm telling you, some of that stuff. Um you get into some pretty good uh like especially on Achamena, you get into some really walk scrambling, yeah, yeah. And it's um but it's uh Waterton, beautiful lake for place for hiking, and it's just a gorgeous place and great hike.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

We've done Prip Lake.

SPEAKER_05 31:59

I haven't done that one. I think I did the Cameron Lake one, though. I think it was probably like six or seven kilometers back towards Waterton, where I almost went off the cliff. Once you kind of do that big climb kind of to the height of land and then back down to Waterton. Yeah, I was right around there. But yeah, actually, we were just there for the first time last year, and people had been talking about it for years, and it was one of the places where you go and you're like, okay, wow, it's it's worth the hype. It's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 32:24

Yeah, well, absolutely. If you ever get a chance, you want to go to Crip Lake. That is you take the border cross. To me, that's one of those hikes that it I mean, it's difficult, but it's just a beautiful one, too. Not terribly difficult, but it's it's just a really nice hike.

SPEAKER_05 32:42

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'll have to check that out for sure. So that was the mintour was one of your more memorable ones. Is there some other other ones as well?

SPEAKER_00 32:54

You know what? They all bring such, everyone brings brings something to the table. So it's really kind of hard. I guess Lost Souls has always kind of been the one that we've gone to almost every year. Beaver Flat is also one that we love just because we lived close to Swift Current for so long. Okay. And we always said, boy, would this ever be a great place to have um like an ultra um and a race? And I think that was the that year when they announced they were going to start Beaver Flat. And um, so we've done it pretty much every year since it started because because it just seems to be one that we we just love to do, and it's close by because we because we kind of started with it, and um, but the year that it started, I'd already signed, I think that was the same year I started, I did my hundred mile. Okay. And I was like, oh, but I have to do this 50k because it's the end of our race. So the criteria to do the race was if I can get my feet in shoes, then we'll run it. Thank goodness I was able to get my feet in shoes, and then I was able to run both back. Oh, that's awesome. But but yeah, so that's always been kind of good for us too.

SPEAKER_05 34:11

For sure. So the 50K the Beaver Flat was just like the weekend after your hundred mile at last told.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:17

Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Again, just don't think about it too much, just go do it and hope for the best.

SPEAKER_05 34:24

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, beaver flat's got kind of like uh a homecoming, isn't it, too? Now I'm sure at first maybe it was a little, I'm assuming it was smaller than than it is now, but now it just feels like a big big gathering of all your friends and familiar faces, and so it is, yeah. And yeah, you know, I think that's where we met.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Yeah, that is right. Because we did the we also that's that's where we did the the maintenance weekend.

SPEAKER_05 34:48

Yeah, the volunteer maintenance weekend. That's right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

We met to met you and yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 34:55

And then so how do you usually do the 50k there, or you've done the 20k a few times, or I think I think I've always done the 50.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

I think maybe one year I did the 20.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

Karen usually does the 50k. I've done the 20k a couple times now. I've done the 50k there too, but I've like it several times. But uh I've I like the 20k now, on to the point where 20k is plenty in that that's fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:21

And uh I think one of our most fun runs though, it wasn't even a race, but when I turned 70, I said, you know, we've got to do something different. So I said, let's do let's go to the city, go to like in Saskatoon, we'll run through the night and let's see what the night light looks like, like in Saskatoon. Yeah, and and uh we'll just run all night and we'll get in 70k, and then we'll go for breakfast in the morning. Sounds reasonable.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

So we uh turning 66, and she turned us turning 66.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

She had turned 66. So um, so anyway, so we started at seven in the evening, and we had this was before, like I guess backyard altars were out. I don't know, but we didn't know about them. But I said, so we'll go 3.3k out, turn around, come back. We'll have 6.6k. We do 10 of them, and we went different directions, so we could kind of see different nightlife in the city, and so we uh and we did 10 of them, so then we hit 66, and then all we had is the next three and a half, 3.4k left for it to hit my 70.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

And so we can both get our goals to get our mileage in.

SPEAKER_04 36:34

And so by and then at uh I guess at about a little before about six o'clock or so in the morning, we finished our run. We had our 70k in, and I was dead beat. Karen, she was still sprinting down the trail, but I was pretty much by then. And so then we we went uh we finished, and then we just went into the Sheraton because and went there for breakfast. Yeah, and uh we always start because we've we have a lot of little things we've done, and we always start at the blink that uh big clock down by the Besbro. Okay, there's a clock there, and so that's kind of our starting point. And uh so anyway, so we that was that was really interesting to run through the night in the dark, hearing all the noises and stuff. Um, it was just a a really good experience. And then we covered Ultra. And then we covered, yeah, backyard Ultra and we covered 70k, and so it was uh it was a really fun time.

SPEAKER_05 37:31

That wouldn't be fun. What time of year did you do that?

SPEAKER_04 37:34

What time was that?

SPEAKER_00 37:35

It was in September, or it was in October.

SPEAKER_04 37:37

Well, yeah, are you just after the long weekend in October or just before the long weekend, uh May?

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Yeah, it was October because it's when your birthday is.

SPEAKER_04 37:46

Yeah, right. It was the weekend until October 13th at that time, so I forget what so it was the beginning of October.

SPEAKER_05 37:52

Yep, for sure. Did you see any any nightlife that spooked you out there, or was it pretty, pretty tame that night?

SPEAKER_04 37:58

You know, we have to, it was really um, there was a concert going on at Besborough, and so and that lasted till about midnight, and it was really fun. It was rowdy, and every time we came back, you know, there's a lot of screaming and hollering and people running around. But then after they died out, you know, we um we saw the odd person going down the sidewalk, but very few. We in the park, you could hear them yelling and screaming, you know, different things. Um, but never once did we feel unsafe. Okay. Uh we passed a couple of people that you know were friendly and we said hi.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

And but uh so we really we came back for lunch, like we our snacks were in our car at the back on our back of our vehicle. So I think we're more worried that the cops would because we had fireball. Oh, okay. Fireball every every time when we came back. So we're worried that they'd be worried about our fireball. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

Parked our car on the street, and then every hour we got back, we'd take a drink of water or have have something to eat, and then we'd continue on again. So it's kind of like an out uh backyard ultra and training our and um, but yeah, we you know, it for as much as we'd heard about it, we felt pretty safe, but we weren't in the core of the city, we were on Mualson Trail mostly. Okay. So it wasn't um, you know, it wasn't it, it wasn't bad. And and um, so we really um and just the two of us, you know, running together, it it was kind of special. That's all. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 39:32

Yeah, it sounds awesome. Must and I actually did something similar to that. I think it was New Year's Eve 2020 going into 21. So it's like the year when there was like no New Year's Eve parties, and we started at midnight just from our house, and we um ran 50k. I don't remember exactly how we did it. We ran west on the trail, came home, went, ran east, came home. But yeah, it was just like it's a weird night. It was like minus 15 and so spooky because it was New Year's Eve. And I think we saw like three cars, no people, and there was like this kind of misty cold fog. So it was actually like way, way colder than you would think it would be for minus 15. And yeah, it was it was fun. We had bleeding noses, and I think it was like one of the first times, it might have even been the first time we ran 50 kilometers. I can't remember exactly, but yeah, same kind of thing, just running overnight in the city, but yeah, and just that whole COVID thing where there was it was just like a ghost town, really. I said it felt not that I've been to Siberia, but what I picture Siberia being like to run through. That's kind of what it felt like.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

Well, especially in the cold, like we did it in the nice weather. You did it.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Cool. But that's one thing that people when they get to be our age, they always talk, oh, I don't want to be my age, and I don't want to celebrate, and no, I'm not gonna celebrate my birthday. And I tell them, um, you should. Every day is so like every year that you get to be alive is so important. So do something to commemorate that day, whether it's read a book, read six, you know, for whatever year it is, think of something that kind of commemorates that day because you don't know if you're gonna have the next birthday. So I've kind of tried to for myself and Hark too, but for myself, I always try every year to do something that kind of commemorates the the years that I had that year. That was it that I'm turning. So the one year, like last year, I think it was last year. I um I did, I I took, I gave myself a week, but I did a triathlon. So for 60 69 or 68, 69, I had to do 60, 600, 6,900 meters of swimming and uh 690 uh kilometers of of run or biking, and then I had to do 69 kilometers of running. Oh, I love that. Yeah, but over I was gonna try to do them back to back, but yeah, that was that was that was a little bit more than so I gave myself a week so to do that.

SPEAKER_05 42:01

Oh, that sounds great. Did you do that different? Yeah, did you do that all around home?

SPEAKER_00 42:06

Yeah, yeah, okay. I booked into the the you know the Lakewood uh civic center and did my laps and then and then just biked and ran um but got it all in in the week.

SPEAKER_04 42:19

Oh, just every day after work.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Every day after work, I I just kept working at it. Yeah, that's awesome. So so it's more of my a personal challenge than it is anything else. But but I always tell people do something, make sure it's important.

SPEAKER_05 42:35

That's right. Yeah, I absolutely love that because yeah, growing up I always remember people I knew are relatives and be like, oh, I'm turning 40, like it's some horrible thing, and you're like, oh God, I don't want to be 40 or 50 or 60, it sounds terrible, but you're proof that's still awesome.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Well, it it is. Um just we're I just think we're so lucky to be able to still do what we do. Yep. And and even if you can't do this, do something that makes if you're a reader, maybe you want to challenge yourself to read something different or do do something different. But yeah, for sure. It just gives a mindset for the next year.

SPEAKER_05 43:18

That's right, yeah. And that's a good segue. You guys recently um celebrated your 50th wedding anniversary, right? And then how did you commemorate that?

SPEAKER_04 43:26

Well, that was a good one, many ways. Uh um, so what we did there is um uh in in September before the our 50th, I should in the 50th year, we did at Law Souls, we did a 50k run for our 50th marriage. So we ran together. Okay, normally we don't run together. Karen's usually a little faster, so she goes ahead and just um we both do our own race. That uh last uh last week year we we ran this 50k race together. Just for our 50th anniversary. And so it was it was really it was a lot of fun. It um actually got a little attention out there. These people are saying, Oh, there's this old couple, they're running for the 50th anniversary. And so it was kind of cool. And then and then after we um uh so that was we did that in the fall. And the reason we did that is because that was our first um the place we'd started trail running. So we we thought, what a better place to celebrate, and then it had a 50k, so we could relate that to 50 years. And uh so then and then in uh when our anniversary came by on February the 7th, uh then we decided that we would take uh most of February off and we drove to Vancouver and we thought we'd just make it a a hiking kind of and running thing. So we had registered for uh the uh run ridge run in Vancouver. And that's um so Karen did the 26k there and I did the 13k, and we registered for that one. But on the way up, we stopped at Canmore, and we did some friends there took us on some mountain hikes, and um we got a real experience of what real snow was like trying to hike in the mountains and more. But so that was super great, and then we uh you know and we stopped at at uh Salmon Arm and did some trail some running around the lake and stuff there. Uh and when we got to Vancouver, then we uh we uh took a ferry across. We have a son that lives up on a little island called Keats Island. Okay, so we took a ferry across there and stayed there, and then we did some trail running on this little island, and uh and that was beautiful because they almost never get snow there. But when we were there, the snow came down just in huge flakes, and it was just a gorgeous setting. So we and then uh we came back from there and we did the and we did the law the uh run ridge run uh race, and that's one of Gary Robins Coastal Mountain Trail Series. Okay, and uh so that was uh and then you know, other than that, we we and then we spent a few nights in the uh hotel in Vancouver with friends and did some hiking all around the the seawall and different places.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

Um so we then came back to Banff.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

Then we yeah, and then we came back to Banff and we spent a couple nights in in Banff at uh at the hotel, and we did you know uh sulphur mountain and different hiking around there. And Karen, she broke the record into the cold plunge thing in the hotel cold plunge, and and these guys were all they'd jump in and come back out in a few seconds. And I think Karen lasted about five or six minutes.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_04 46:59

Finally, she they thought, okay, it's time to come up before you die in there. But so we um so that whole three weeks that we did, like it was beautiful weather, and we climbed a lot of mountains, did a lot of trail stuff, and and just really enjoyed um yeah, enjoyed that few couple weeks of of just celebrating 50 years.

SPEAKER_05 47:22

Yeah, that sounds like a really, really nice way to spend that.

SPEAKER_04 47:26

It really was.

SPEAKER_05 47:27

Yeah. And you mentioned you take time off. Are you guys still working and doing all these fun adventures and racing and still doing it all?

SPEAKER_00 47:35

No, we're retired. We're both I retired a year and a half ago. Okay, but to take care of my mom.

SPEAKER_04 47:41

And the reason we took time off was Karen, she was her um every day she goes went to see her mom like morning and evening. So she'd spend three or four hours a day with her mom at the senior home, making sure she got fed and took and taken care of. So we our daughter she said, Well, I'll take care of them for the month. You you go ahead and well that's what we mean. We took time off where Karen was able to get away from her, and and uh so that was um so that was special too that that our daughter took care of them like that.

SPEAKER_05 48:12

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's really good. So you guys have any uh plans for this year? Got your season all figured out, or what are you up to this year?

SPEAKER_00 48:23

Well, you know what? I we're not doing nearly as much as we have in the past. We're doing research and then haven't really planned anything until Lost Souls. Okay. I want to do the 100k there. Oh, that's awesome. It's a good proof that I can do it without leaning. And I like I love the long, I just love the long distance. Yeah. I don't know, I'm not super fast. I'm not fast, but I I like the the long trails. And uh and one of the things that we were thinking of doing while I was up is the Yukon Gold. It's actually a a road run. Okay. Um and so you do relays different distances, and you start at um Skagway and then you end up in Whitehorse. So that was kind of on the docket, but I have a feeling it was the same it got canceled because a lot of them were doing high rocks competitions, okay right around there. So I think they've decided that that's not gonna happen this year. So otherwise we would have done that. Um and if if something comes up that you know it looks maybe there's a chance to do uh a different race, maybe we'll see. But nothing, nothing crazy this year.

SPEAKER_04 49:44

And I've got the same setup as she does. We're registered for Reese her, and then we'll probably end up going into uh like going to uh Sinister just to be there, and then if all of a sudden something happens that someone breaks a leg and they need a runner or something like that to fill in, you know. Yeah, but and um but so we're doing uh but we'll do a Reese, and then we're going to we're registered for uh for Lost Souls. And I I don't even know for sure, but I think we registered for Beaver Flat as well. Okay. Um so those are the ones we you know those are kind of musts, like Beaver Flat and Lost Souls, they're almost a have to. And if we fill in in between that we try to uh to to do different races, but uh in the past we've in the past we've done three or four races a summer, and that's pretty heavy. And now I just feel that I'm getting to the point where my knees aren't quite like that. We're at 40 years old, and I can't quite cover those distances anymore. So I gotta do a few less of them.

SPEAKER_05 50:48

Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

But they're the we missed the cactus cooley. Like there are some of those smaller there that that one's in Lethbridge. It's a great segue to to doing a Lethbridge run. That's yeah, we missed that date um to do that. But that's always a good run if we get the chance to to do that. And um yeah, if something comes up that looks like, oh, that'll be a good race, let's do that, then we'll do it. But nothing, nothing pre-planned. I know we should, I sometimes think we should we do be setting our sights on things that are new and different, as opposed to kind of what we're always doing. But um we've just kind of I guess it's fairly close to home. And I don't know, we just haven't ventured out. I wouldn't mind doing one of the ones down in the States, Black Canyon or one of those. That would be a great deal to do one of those.

SPEAKER_04 51:45

But one thing what cutting back a little bit on the race is we get a little bit more time now to get into the mountains and hike. Okay, so often, uh in the years gone by, for years now, we have no time for anything but train and run, uh race and stuff. So now it'll be nice like to um like we did howling a couple of times, you know, small little hikes like that where we have never been able to do because they're always running. So to get more into hiking like that is what we'd kind of like to do as well. Yeah. And uh, and um, you know, and then to get to we uh when you go to Manning Park in BC, you know, there's some beautiful hikes in there that we just we have hiked sometimes, but usually it's around races. So it'd be nice to go there and just do some hiking a little leisurely and be able to really enjoy uh the mountain rather than just always be hurting while you're running it.

SPEAKER_05 52:40

That's right, yeah. Actually, today when I was running I had the dog with me and out at Wascana Trails, and I felt like I was maybe getting a blister, and so I just stopped and took my shoe off and my sock, and the dog cuddled against my leg, and I just looked around. I'm like, wow, it's so peaceful and quiet out here. But for the last couple hours, all I heard was like my music in my ears and my legs bloshing and my feet hitting the dirt. And I'm like, it's kind of nice. I should just do this all the time. It really is, it really is.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

I think what's what's although we, you know, we kind of started trail running when trail running wasn't as popular as it is now, I guess it's more popular. But I think what we still feel like we're part of of everything that's happened. We've we've done quite a few of the things that we wanted to do. Yeah. Um, achieved some of the, I've not done a 200 mile or whatever, not that it couldn't be possible, but I think that we there's such a great all the younger people coming up, they're such a great inspiration to to the trail running community and to our community as itself. And I think that's what's so intriguing about trail running, is that it doesn't matter your age or ability, everybody's out there, and everybody really encourages everybody to to do whatever they do. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 53:59

And um yeah, so different than road racing.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

And and we've yeah, we've done quite a few races, so I don't we don't feel like, oh, we need to go out and do that again. Uh we can do the very comfortable ones that we we know what what to expect. Yeah. That's my biggest fear is trying something that I have no idea of unless somebody says, you should really do that, because it would be a good race for you. Then I might venture out and try it. Yeah. But to just say I'm I'm just gonna fly to Arizona and do a race, that I've never really gone out and tried to just say that's what I want to do, because I'm always afraid that maybe I'll fail. And and and so we've always stayed kind of comfortable as opposed to doing that. But maybe in our next my next decade, I'll do those things.

SPEAKER_05 54:49

Yeah, you mentioned the 200-mile or briefly. Do you would you ever consider trying one of those since you love the long use that's so much in your own?

SPEAKER_04 54:58

Well, I've I will make sure she doesn't think of that.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

The price, the price of the race, I mean, it's it's a long time to be out there. I would like to try it just because I think if you could hike, um I think a lot of it's hiking.

SPEAKER_05 55:13

Yeah, I think the divide even advertised like the divide 200. They most was telling me they had a ad just like that, like, hey hikers, you can come if you're a good hiker, you can hike this course and the and still make the cutoff. So what would be uh that could be a fun one?

SPEAKER_04 55:28

Yeah, we had the privilege of of couping one of the guys that was running out there the first year, a couple years, second year. Okay, and it was really an eye-opener to that. And you're right. Uh, I mean, this guy's a good runner, and he did it in a good time. But uh, if you're a really good hiker, yeah, you can complete that. Uh, it's maybe if you're a really good hiker, you could probably complete that almost as easy as you can complete a hundred miler because there's so much hiking, yeah, you can't consider like there's people like we just saw on the Coca-Cola 250 who can run the whole thing. Yeah. Ordinary people like us have to do a lot of walking. Yep. So if you plan that into your race before you start, yeah, 200 may be possible, but uh, I'm not interested, but it could be possible.

SPEAKER_00 56:21

But I think nutrition, I think I'm uh after all of these years, nutrition is probably something that's just becoming to make sense to overall, like how what a difference that whole nutrition piece is to the race that you do and be successful and not be sick and and not feel nauseous three quarters of the time and things like that. So I feel like maybe there's a whole new segment of feeling stronger now that that I really understand that whole nutrition piece or getting to understand that whole nutrition piece. So now can I do longer or better?

SPEAKER_02 57:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

So yeah. So I think that's a big, big part of it too. Is I think I'm just beginning after all this time to really get it.

SPEAKER_05 57:11

Have you also noticed since you got into trail running as compared to now, like your resources as far as like finding answers about nutrition and gear and all that is much easier now that so many people are doing it and there's like so many resources now?

SPEAKER_00 57:24

Is that yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, just the books that are out there to to help you, or and just I think the sports nutrition, yeah, that just getting that information is so much more available now. And and I think because my I have a body image issue, it wouldn't matter what they told me. I would probably I was afraid of eating too much because they would gain weight and that that in in your head, and it doesn't make sense to someone who doesn't think that. But when I was running my hundred mile, I had many chocolate bars in my pocket. Yep. And Kelly, who was pacing me, he said, Karen, have you eaten your chocolate bar yet? And I said, No. He I said, and I guess I said, No, because I'm afraid I'm gonna get fat. And he said, Karen, you were never gonna get fat eating these chocolate bars. You have run too many calories to do that. But in my head, that was still a problem.

SPEAKER_02 58:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:23

So I think I'm beginning to, I'm only beginning to to have that um changed. So that it's not it's not about that. And I've been able to see my nutrition as as a plus, and yeah, whatever eating lots is a plus as opposed to a a negative.

SPEAKER_05 58:46

That's right. Yeah, you're just kind of fueling your system instead of starting it. Yeah, I know I've had people, I try to kind of do the high carb thing and I've heard little comments like, oh, you're just gonna take in more calories than you than you burn. I'm like, well, I'm not running to lose weight. I'm I won't trying to perform and you know be the best I can on race day. I'm not worried about calories in, calories out. It's not like a Weight Watchers commercial from the 80s or something. It's uh you know, everyone who's doing this has to kind of fine-tune their nutrition and their bodies, and yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:15

I I think that's maybe a big little part of the problem is uh it's almost overload with information. Everyone's got the right idea, how much to eat, how much to drink, that's right, yes, get ready. And and sometimes it's uh a little bit like uh take the responsibility yourself. You get the information now that you have to you have to feed yourself while you're running, but no one else has the answer for you because you're specific. What you're gonna need to take in is different than what Joe down the road's gonna take.

SPEAKER_05 59:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:48

So it comes with practice. And so for like I've noticed in the last couple of times, I I've never complained uh said I was a really good runner. I just love running and I like to finish. And I've been learning though that I almost eat constantly, like whether I have a pocket full of jujubes and keep popping jujues or whatever it might be, like with my regular eating, I find that by keeping that calories up, it's just for me. It really just keeps me going and it makes me feel good. And and so the next person that may not work for them. So I wouldn't I'd hesitate to tell someone, well, just make sure you're always eating. Because that's right, yeah, it may not work. But that kind of stuff is it's so simple, you just gotta find out what works for you, yeah. And that's all you have to do. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:41

Yeah, yeah. With the um body image stuff you mentioned, Karen, do you um think that it seems more prevalent with women just because of the society and stuff we're raised in? I guess that's just kind of the way it's been, especially. And I I hope it's better now, but I know going up in the 80s and 90s and before that it was all very much body image and women had to be thin and stuff. Do you think that females nowadays would have less of that issued? Like that society's kind of corrected that, or what's your view on that?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:12

I think they're much more accepting. Yeah. I think society is much more accepting of who you are. It's not about it's not about what you look like. I mean, I think there's still some of that, but but I think it's it's more about being healthy.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:28

That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

And I see that with my girls, you know, it's it's like all about being being healthy and being strong. And that's what I say as I'm getting older now. That's the one piece too in the running is being strong and getting the strength that I need to do what I need to do, which I never did before, or not nearly to the extent that I do it now. But uh there, yeah, my daughters are much more about mom, don't worry. We just want you to be strong and we just be healthy.

unknown 1:02:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:01

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I know a few weeks ago we were at a family event, and um, I don't even remember what Melissa picked up to carry, but I was standing beside her, and someone's like, Oh my god, why are you carrying that when your husband is right beside you? I'm like, Melissa can deadlift more than I can, so she can she she's perfectly capable. Just because she's a female doesn't mean she shouldn't be lifting heavy things. In fact, it's worse if you don't lift heavy things.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:24

Yeah. Just I was hope hope that kind of thinking goes goes away at some point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

Yeah. I think there's a a stigma, but I think it's going away a lot. But I think people my age don't are only beginning to see that. And I go to a gym, and there are women that are my age, but a lot younger. And I think they're just always amazed that that people my age can do what they do. Yeah, that's right. It's kind of it's kind of encouraging because they go, Oh, okay, so if you can do that, so can I. And I'm your age or you're my age, and and we can still get to the gym and do what we need to do and and excel at what we need to do. So I think we're an example no matter what, you know, in whatever you do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:16

So you I'm sure you guys take great pride in knowing that you're an inspiration to people and showing them you can be active and healthy, like well into your life.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:26

Well, we sure hope we are.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:27

Yeah. I know Melissa and I use you as examples a lot of times. Like, we'll see other people like even younger than you, and then we'll just be like, Are these people like five years younger than Harvey and Karen? And look at look at how active they are, and these people can't even do this. So I like I always like to use you as a barometer. We have other friends around your age as well who are active, and it's so so awesome to see.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:48

Yeah, that's cool. That's and you know, you can you can tell the image of people is changing. Like you look at and as you see all the time too, is uh the people that are running now, they aren't necessarily looking like like marathon runners, they're just ordinary people who train, get in shape, get strong, and run. And it's amazing what you don't have to look a certain way to be a good runner. That's right, yeah. And it is more and more accepting. I think it used to be more that you had to be this perfect build in order to run. Now anyone runs, they just train and they run, and that is so good.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:28

Yep, for sure. Yeah, I know the uh I can't remember her name, the lady from Ontario who won the Divide 200 last year. I know also was super excited when she saw photos of her because she was just like she looks like a strong CrossFit person, you know, not like your typical, like what you know, a running body is supposed to look like quote unquote. But yeah, yeah. Just like you said, the big, the, the big muscles and the endurance, and yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

I'm always inspired by by the younger, like anybody that's that's younger than us. I'm just always inspired by them because they give they give so much energy and and insight into life too. And part of that demographic, I just think, wow, how lucky we are to be able to to be part of that. I just think we're just so fortunate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:22

It's kind of like uh you get something out of it and they get something out of it too, just kind of inspiring each other. That's so good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:29

It is, it's so it's so good.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:31

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But they're able to work their time where they have time to run, they have time with the families. Yeah. Whereas when we grew up, all it was is we raised family. That's right. Yeah. We worked and raised the kids, and there was no time for extra stuff. All people are so organized that if the husband and wife are both runners, some might stay home and And the other one goes for their run or vice versa. But they're way more organized where and it's so nice to see that just because they're raising kids doesn't say they can't run or get out and do stuff. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:13

And we're lucky too that we do get to do it together. You know, we're one of the we're probably the minority where couples can do the same sport like sport and be able to do it together. So we that's why I think we chose it's it's something that we travel and do do it together. So that's been kind of nice.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:36

Yeah, it's a good good thing for sure. Yeah, Melissa and I are like that too. I know last year she was injured a bit, and when I would go on my long run, I knew she was 100% supportive and yeah, just doing other things, and just deep down I just had a little bit of guilt. I'm like, oh, I should be I should be doing something. So I could imagine I know there are people who are in a situation where their partners maybe aren't as supportive as running, so it could add, you know, because you're tired and it takes a lot of time, then you add that little bit of guilt of maybe you know you're making someone mad or not pulling your weight. So having the having having the two who are on the same page is always awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:09

And yeah, it's just a hard it's a balancing act for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:12

It's kind of like on the same page, it's kind of like on the same trail. We don't run together, we're just on the same trail. That's right. Yeah, someplace ahead. Have you ever beaten her at a race? Oh, yeah. Like when I first started running, I mean it it took her quite a few years before she could run with me. Like I always made sure I stayed back and ran with her. Yep. But it it took a few years before she was where she built up. But then once she got to the point where she went through clinics and she learned how to run, she went to like things like craven here and learned how to run and stuff. Um and then she got better than me. But there was a time when, yeah, I definitely had no problem beating her. Uh-huh. But that's been a few years ago. Yeah, not anymore. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:59

We just always have this role we start together and we end together. And we're always at the same place at the end, but we probably get there at different places. At different times. But when I ran here tonight for the very first time, Harv always led. We always ran together and he led. And then we got to a place and he goes, So, Karen, I can't finish. I I did I I quit. It was at the 50k, we must have been doing 100k or whatever it was at Lost Souls. And um, he says, So you can either quit or you can go through the night by yourself. And I was just horrified. I thought, I've never, I just couldn't even imagine going out in the dark by myself. And it was, I was really, I was like, okay, I guess I gotta do this. Yeah. So I did. I started out with a group, and I thought, okay, I'll just stick with this group, and then I had my own agenda. I was like way too competitive. I'm like, nope, I can't do this. Then I carried on and did my own thing. But okay, it was that was the scary part was running, learning to run at night and not being afraid. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:06

And there's no shortage of coyotes howling and stuff out there, and you know, it was really loud. I remember that night, it was very loud. And when she finished, she said, you know, I never heard one coyote.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:16

Oh wow. Everybody else did. Yep. You were so focused.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:22

I guess, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:24

You guys had mentioned earlier how much you enjoy the um doing the local races, and you kind of drawn to that. Do you ever find I know I've had this experience just when you go to a race, maybe somewhere in I don't know, BC or the US or whatever, and you maybe don't know anyone. Do you find it almost? I mean, people are always wonderful at events anyway, but I sometimes I find it almost like a bit lonely because I'm like craving like you know that familiar face every so often. Like it's maybe maybe that's why we're drawn to staying more local than going going so far for races because the community is such a big part of the experience.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:56

I think that's true. Yeah, like haven't gone to too many where we haven't known someone or someone who hasn't been with us that they've run. Yep. But that is my that's always my fear about going to somewhere where I would have no idea. A couple, there was one that I was gonna do this year in Washington. Okay. But then they decided, I guess, not to do it this year. But it was in April, and I thought, oh, that would have been a really perfect race to do. So that would have been my first, like, okay, I'm gonna step out of my comfort zone and and go something that I haven't done. So maybe in the next, maybe in the next year or so, we'll try maybe something in the States that for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:38

I think part of it though, too, is because Karen and I run so much together and we're together and we really enjoy traveling and being together. Yeah, when we go to these races, if there's no one there we know, we know each other. That's right. Yeah, we're both the kind of people that it doesn't take long before we've met people that we all of a sudden we're friends. Like we see that we talk to, we just we just get involved. As soon as we get someplace, we get involved. And if those people don't want to be involved, well too bad for them. Uh this is a race, we've got to get to know you. So I think we we're definitely both we're um we're a little bit we're outgoing, so we we kind of enjoy meeting you people. For sure. It's often when we'll go to a um even to uh a race where they might have a supper or something like that, we often won't sit with our own friends. We'll go and sit with someone that we don't know just to get to know them. That's awesome. We kind of like to uh we kind of like to get be with people we don't know because it's always fun to get to know new ideas and new people. Yeah. So so uh it doesn't matter to us too much if we know someone.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:46

Jason, that's a great challenge for me this next year is to kind of go out of my comfort zone and maybe for this next year try to do a race that is not not local and try to sign up for something I have no idea about and do do there are a couple in Alberta that I've thought, oh, we should try to do those.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:06

Maybe fire and ice in Greenland.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:08

Yeah, totally totally different.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:12

I'd be into that if you need a if you need some partners to travel with, I'd love to go to Greenland. That'll be my challenge this next one.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:20

Yeah, that would be years to try to do a race that does this.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:23

Well, I have a um a comped 50k entry for the uh race the north face in um Brandon, Manitoba in August. If you want a another 50k on your list, uh um I had Christian from the Trails of Tobon a couple months back, and I got uh free entry into that. So I'm doing that one at the end of August, and then he gave didn't have to do this because I was going anyway, but uh being the nice guy he is, he gave me two complimentary entries and um I had a few people who were gonna come, but it hasn't worked out for anyone. So if you're interested in that, you let me know. I think it sounds fun. It's like a 50k with 1200 meters of gain through the uh Brandon Hills, and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:59

Oh, you know what? It is that the one that used to be it used to be the um Spruce Pines or something?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:06

Spruce Woods?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:07

Um no, actually it's that's a different uh group. I haven't actually raced in Manitoba yet, but um I I know I we had lots of friends who used to do the Spruce Woods, and I think that's a different group. And then the Trails of Toba, they do the the race the north face, which is the one I was talking about, and then they do the uh suffer on the centennial that went out by Falcon Lake, like the 100k out kind of on the Canadian Shield.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:26

So well, send us the info about the one in Manitoba. That sounds like one that might be might be, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:33

Yeah, no, but yeah, yeah, it looks good way to yeah, it looks really fun. And yeah, like you said, get go somewhere a little different. Another one I want to have on my bucket list. I want to do like one of the maybe you guys have been out there, but the uh Black Hills Ultra that they have in South Dakota. No, I haven't. That's uh yeah, that's not you know, I always say it's probably like you guys are a little farther being in Saskatoon, but from Regina, it's one of the one of the closer ones, really. It's only like a seven-hour drive, so it's almost closer than Crow's Nest for us. So it is very much.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:05

Well, I'm in trying Spartan this year, so we'll see. Not not a very big one, but we'll try my hand at a Spartan.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:11

Oh, that's awesome. Big one. Well, she's doing the one in red deer. I mean, it is a big Spartan.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:15

Not that not the Tribecta, though. Like I could okay. I didn't sign up for the Tribecta. I could. Yeah. But I'm just gonna do that. What distance are you doing? The 5k? 5k. I think that's all I if I can get over the Menti bars, we'll be good.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:30

Yeah, oh that's awesome. Yeah, Muss and I love love Spartans. I want to do one again, but um, I don't know. There's they're so far away, and I don't know. Red Deer seems like a long ways to go just for although they do have the 21k there now, too, don't they? They have the beast.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:44

We do the trifecta, so it's three three events, I think, or three days. That's right.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:49

Yeah, yeah, you do the beast super and sprint, and yeah, yeah, we often talk about that. That's kind of how we first got into competitive racing. And I think we did a 5k in Calgary when they used to have it out there, and we were probably in our late 30s at the time, and we that 5k Spartan just felt like the most epic thing we could have ever done. We were so proud. I mean, which is at the time it was, so it was weird to think, you know, as you progress and even getting older, obviously, you just add more and more mileage, and yeah, those those Spartans are fun. Do you have any interest in doing Spartans, Harvey?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:20

You know, I'm not strong enough. I just okay. Um, I used to have very good upper body strength, but I've kind of lost that. So um I have to stick to running. I can't if I hang on a monkey bar, I can get about one bar and then I'm down. I I can't cross the monkey bar. Yeah. So I think um I'll leave that up to Karen. She enjoys it. She's done a couple, well, not a couple of them, but but because she goes to F45 every morning, at least she has a little bit of strength.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:50

Yeah. That'll be good. That's yeah, that's how we got into running basically was through Spartans because we were came from CrossFit, went into Spartans, and we were decent at the obstacles and stuff, and and at running a shorter distance, obviously. But then as they got longer, we're like, oh, we have to become better runners if we want to be, especially once you five, 10k, you can kind of joke your way through it. But once it's like the beast, like I think we did that one, the 20k in Montana. So we actually did run specific training, and that's kind of how we got more into the the running of a good gateway. But yeah, I wish I wish there were more of those Spartans, they were they're fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:25

Yeah, we'll see if I can do it. I can do the running, it's that's upper body strength that I'm not sure, but I don't know, we'll do it.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:33

Is there a and then we'll figure it out? Is there a place in Saskatoon where you can kind of train on the obstacles at all?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:39

Is there no there really isn't? Um I mean, like the playground, most of them I think the playground we have across the street. So I need to get good at at swinging from one to the other.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:54

That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:54

I still have a lot of work to do on that.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:57

But this uh group she goes with, I don't know if you have one regina, it's called the F45. Okay, and it's uh it's like CrossFit only, it's kind of like CrossFit, so it's a great way to build strength. So even if you don't have the they do high rocks, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:12

So you're it's familiar with high rocks, so a lot of high rocks type uh workouts.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:17

Okay, yeah, yeah. So that seems like an interesting discipline as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:22

Yeah, kind of like high rock, it's kind of like CrossFit, it's not quite as intense as I think it's not quite as intense.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:30

No, yeah, you'll get some strange looks when Melissa and I did more Spartans. We had a little circuit around our neighborhood where we had run like whatever one or two K in between playgrounds and we'd do monkey bars and always joke. Like people thought we were it's so weird to see somebody like adults playing on yeah, monkey bars and doing push-ups in the rocks. But I always say if somebody's like walking with a bucket of KFC and smoking, nobody bats an eyelash at that. But if you're playing on a playground, you're some weirdo.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:57

That's true.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:58

Yeah. All right. Was there any um other stories you guys wanted to add, or do you did we cover everything?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:06

We can well, we haven't covered everything, but probably it's enough. Like we I think we can um I think individual stories we could probably go on and on, but that's it. Um I think in the end, I think we have just been very fortunate that we kind of stumbled onto drill running and and both have enjoyed it. And we've both had some really good challenges with it. I I think it's one of the it's it's it's such a good character builder. And for us, it's been such a good relationship, a binding machine thing that just keeps us together on on certain like keeps us focused. And um, so it's just been for us trail running has just has just actually hit the mark for for everything we do. It's just been so good.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:54

Yep. Gives you something to talk about when you're not running too, I'm sure, when you guys are sitting around the house having yeah, it's always fun watching videos. Yeah, always trying to find the next hack or the next secret.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:08

No, we just had a lot of fun. I don't know, every trail, like even the trail clinics that we've done. Um that's where I got my fireball um Sinister. Yeah, we did a training camp at Sinister, and the guy who was leading us, he had fireball in his backpack. And I had no, I didn't know what fireball was, even. But we were running and we got to the top of this mountain. He says, Does anybody want some fireball? And everybody said, No, no, no, no. I had no idea what it was. So I had some and I was hooked. So at every end of every race, I have a shot of fireball. Uh-huh. Like or at the top of a at the top. If we ever summit, we we have a shot of fireball.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:53

Yeah, we carry our Canadian flag and we have a and we carry her fireball. So we put up the Canadian flag and and have a fireball at the summit of every mountain.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:02

I love that. Yeah, that's great. Well, I hope this year, Harvey, I don't know if you remember this, but when you guys were done sweeping last year at Reese, you came into that the nice barn there they have at the ranch and you were looking for a cookie. And I just remember seemed like no one could hear you, but you were asking, I wouldn't mind the cookie. Does anyone know where there's a cookie?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:20

Really?

SPEAKER_05 1:20:20

And after about four or five times, you just kind of gave up and walked away and you look so sad. So I'm like, I have a plan. I'm gonna have a little bag of cookies for you this year after you're sleeping. So yeah, well, all year whenever Must and I have something, I'm like, you know what? I could use a cookie, and then we can think the staff were already done and Jason Reaster was off doing something. Yeah, and everyone else was either just just finished the race or were um waiting for friends or whatever. So no one was really being too receptive to your cookie idea. But so I hope next weekend you get yourself a cookie. All right, all right, all right. Well, thanks so much. That was really good. I like how sometimes people talk more about races, but you guys talked uh lots about races too by just sharing your wisdom and knowledge and your love of the sport. I think it was a fantastic interview.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:10

Well, I hope it can be something that can be make sense of.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:13

Yeah, no, I think it was very, very insightful and very helpful. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:17

Well, thank you for thinking of us. This has been a privilege.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:19

So thanks.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:22

We're looking forward to seeing you next week.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:24

Yeah, I as well. All right, have a great rest of the day.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:29

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:36

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