The Women Are Plotting

Hot Flashes, Brain Fog, and Horniness, Oh My! Menopause and Perimenopause

• Etienne Rose Olivier, Jane Gari, Heidi Willis • Season 1 • Episode 6

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Jane, Heidi, and Etienne share their raw, unfiltered experiences with perimenopause and menopause, discussing the surprising symptoms that signaled their hormonal changes. The conversation tackles everything from unexpected libido surges to emotional volatility, urinary incontinence, and the misconceptions surrounding hormone replacement therapy.

  • Perimenopause can cause an unexpected surge in libido, contrary to common beliefs about declining sex drive
  • Women can still get pregnant during perimenopause and should continue birth control until fully in menopause
  • Hot flashes, mood swings, and memory issues are common symptoms that can significantly impact quality of life
  • Hormone levels affect various body systems, with low testosterone contributing to brain fog and mood issues
  • Many women experience urinary incontinence due to estrogen depletion, which can improve or vanish with hormone therapy
  • Medical misinformation about hormone replacement therapy has left many women suffering unnecessarily
  • The book "Estrogen Matters" provides valuable information about hormonal health during menopause

    Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com with your perimenopause and menopause stories, or find us on all the socials. Be safe and be excellent to each other.


Send us a text

Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com, and find us on all the socials. Be safe and be excellent to each other.

Etienne:

Welcome listeners. This is Women Are Plotting. I'm Etienne Rose Olivier, and I'm here with my friends and co-hosts, Heidi Willis and Jane Gari. Today's episode we'll be talking about menopause and perimenopause and what symptoms each of us experienced. That let us know that we were in either perimenopause or menopause, and we always start our episodes with a fun fact, and my fun fact for today's episode is that you can get pregnant when you're perimenopausal. Do not believe that just because your periods are getting irregular, that you can stop whatever birth control you're on. You are only safe to stop birth control when you're fully in menopause, which is defined as 12 consecutive months without a period. Okay, so, Heidi, what is your fun fact for today?

Heidi:

I have two because I want to piggyback on that. I actually went 12 months without a period, but my levels were still elevated. Oh shit, yeah, she was like you're not in menopause and in fact I started a period again and it's so frustrating. So, yeah, so it's very frustrating to go 12 months and then your levels are still not at what they're supposed to be. So I've had this happen twice now, where I've gone, you know, 11 months or 12 months and and yeah

Etienne:

oh my God

Heidi:

Not in menopause yet.

Etienne:

I can't believe you did it twice.

Etienne:

So what was, what year did you first?

Etienne:

have this like

Heidi:

it was 2022

Etienne:

okay

Heidi:

went 11 months, started back up and was going for another year or so or no. It was till that october of 2023. And then I made it to october of last year and then, nope, my levels were still elevated.

Etienne:

Oh my God

Heidi:

yeah, yeah. So she put me on birth control to try and get me leveled out and now I'm starting hormone replacement therapy.

Heidi:

Oh, so my fun fact, my real fun fact, is did you know that your testosterone gets low as well? And they've started using that in perimenopausal and menopausal women, because it does affect you, like your mood and sex drive and all that. And, yeah, so my pharmacist is trying to get me some because it's considered off-label, using it in women, which it's having good effects on women and in this phase of life. But, yeah, the VA is giving her a lot of peck, so she's trying to figure out a way to get me this medication I really need and she's been able to prescribe it to other women veterans in the past, so we don't know what's happening now. I have an idea why

Etienne:

oh God

Heidi:

why they're rejecting doctors prescribed.

Etienne:

Oh okay, let's not say why, but okay,

Heidi:

no, I'm not going to say why, but I have an idea

Etienne:

I can think of why.

Heidi:

Yeah.

Heidi:

If you think real hard you can kind of figure it out. But anyway, hopefully I'll be on, you know, a low dose of testosterone soon and that will help me with mood and brain fog apparently like it really helps with brain fog, but my levels are really low and she was hoping to get me this medication to even me out.

Etienne:

Yeah, I guess our ovaries make estrogen, progesterone and testosterone, because I'm actually on hormone replacement therapy and they do all three, so I get pellets. But I get pellets put it into my body for estrogen and testosterone and they don't have that for progesterone. So I have to use these little like gel cubes that I put in my mouth and they have to dissolve slowly. It's super annoying. I mean it takes like 10, 15 minutes. It's not the end of the world, it's just, you know, a little bit annoying. I asked them why do they not make these in pellet? Just put that in me too, like we're good, no more worries.

Etienne:

Oh, but they checked my levels before they give me new pellets. They checked them like two weeks before I get new pellets and one time they were like oh well, let's bump up your testosterone too. And I'm like okay, cause I didn't know what was going to happen. I think my sex drive increased a little bit, which that's fine. The sex drive part is fine.

Etienne:

But the bad part I broke out so bad around my mouth. As soon as I could get them all gone, you know, a new batch would pop up and I said, yeah, my face is breaking out. And literally when I went in there to get my blood drawn, she's like oh well, they did bump your testosterone up, and that around your mouth is where you break out if your testosterone levels are too high as a woman. So, yeah, I'm like, well, let's just turn me down just a little bit then, because it's supposed to, I think, also help for energy and sex drive, and I didn't know that it helped for brain frog because literally I got all of my hormones at the same time. So I don't know which one like did what as far as my symptoms.

Etienne:

But I think we should move on to Jane and Jane's fun fact of going off about me and my pellets or whatever.

Jane:

Well, my fun fact I think it's hard to find a fun fact about none of these facts are fun

Heidi:

yeah

Jane:

but when I was doing research for this, I'm like there are no fun facts. I don't understand why at the end of this road, confetti doesn't just launch out of your vagina and like it's a surprise, but no, instead we have to go through cruel puberty in reverse. It's total bullshit. But my fun fact is that the hormonal chaos that happens in your body during this time of life causes memory lapses. And that was when you guys were talking about testosterone and how that you're being prescribed that to actually help with the brain fog.

Jane:

I did not know that that was a symptom of perimenopause and menopause. I just thought, you know you walk into a room and you forget why you went in there and I thought am I having a premature senior moment? Because I can't. Surely I'm not having a senior moment yet. And it's similar the way when I was pregnant I would have a little bit of they called it mommy brain. But I said, ok, this is many, many years later. I can't still have mommy brain, but apparently that is part of it. And I just learned that I was today years old when I learned that, and I just learned that I was today years old when I learned that.

Etienne:

Wait, today, today's year old, that's awesome.

Jane:

I was today's years old when I learned that hormonal chaos in your body during this time of life can cause memory issues. But I'm happy that both of you have sought some type of remediation with hormonal therapy and then that can help. I'm not there yet where I would seek that out. I for me, I just right now I'm I'm perimenopausal and if the cleaner I keep my diet, the more that I exercise that I I feel like I can keep most of it under wraps. But when I first realized that something was happening to me I was still, you know, I was in my 40s and mid 40s and I was experiencing what I would come to find in other anecdotal literature was referred to as the surge, where I just had this horror. I was just so horny and it came out of nowhere and it was the opposite of what I had read was going to happen to me.

Jane:

they were like oh no, like the older you get, you're just gonna just gonna die. You're just gonna dry up down there and not be interested anymore. But first of all, I know that that's not true from other people, that I know my friend group and even in my family, but this was unusual, you know, I mean

Jane:

a healthy sex drive, but this was next level, let me just put it that way Next level and to the point where it was annoying because it was intrusive thoughts Thinking I would like some now, and it was just. It seemed to come out of nowhere and I was also having hot flashes. They didn't coincide.

Jane:

it wasn't like I was horny and temperature hot all the same time you're hot and hot no it would be just random horniness and a preoccupation with watching May December romances on Netflix and then at night having hot flashes and really having trouble sleeping because of them Not the dripping sweat that I've heard other people have. Thankfully that hasn't happened to me, but definitely hot flashes have been real.

Etienne:

Well, how often were you experiencing them Like, generally speaking, the hot flashes, not the horniness part?

Jane:

The horniness was nearly constant.

Etienne:

Like a teenage boy.

Jane:

A little bit felt like that and that lasted for almost a year and then thankfully went back to normal. The hot flashes were coming, I would say, a couple times a day, and then they would disappear for weeks and I did notice that they would subside the cleaner I would be with my diet and my sleep hygiene and working out, and then they went away altogether for a couple years. But I am very sad to report that lately, in the past two months, they have returned with a vengeance, and only at night, though not during the day.

Jane:

Before when they happened it would be during the day.

Jane:

Now this is only at night, and I feel like my husband and I have done this weird role reversal where usually I was the one I was wearing socks to bed, flannel pajamas, extra blankets, and if it was cold outside I was really looking like I was going into hibernation or something, making the bed into this cocoon thing just on my side, because he is also a human radiator and so he didn't really need that.

Jane:

But now that we're older, we're switching and now he needs the extra blanket. He has a weighted blanket on his side of the bed that makes it so hot. And then I am literally just as naked as I can get. I can't be totally naked because I have to wear this apparatus on my back because I have sleep positional, sleep apnea. That's hilarious. So I I look like I'm going scuba diving, but this thing I wear on my back so I can lay on my side, so I have that on, but otherwise I'm naked and I'm so hot and he's over there looking snug as a bug in a rug, and so that's my experience so far.

Etienne:

Oh wait, jane, I don't think the last time that we shared a hotel room that you had your little dolphin fin thing, did you

Jane:

no

Jane:

I had what I lovingly refer to as bed balls. It was like that tight shirt that I had.

Etienne:

Oh yeah, the

Jane:

tennis balls. You've seen my bed balls.

Etienne:

Yes

Heidi:

I've seen it.

Etienne:

So now you've upgraded to a different, it's not bed balls anymore.

Jane:

No, because the bed balls. I've started my body. I think I used to them and I would still get to. I would move just enough where the snoring would. There would be some breakthrough snoring. So now I have this, you'll see it. It's hilarious.

Heidi:

You look like a dolphin though.

Jane:

Yeah, it's awesome

Etienne:

oh, that's fantastic. But now your fun fact though, jane, about getting or not fun fact. But I guess when you first knew that you were perimenopausal, was the not just the hot flashes, but the increased sex drive. Now, I didn't even put this down as something I was going to talk about today, but I had the same thing happen to me, and mine happened when I was still married and when I, you know, in my marriage I had destroyed my sex drive because I wasn't getting enough sex in my almost the entirety of my marriage. This is so stupid.

Etienne:

I was reading Twilight in a Starbucks and I don't know why I would get horny at this. But in the moment where he's watching her sleep in the book, I suddenly got so horny and that was the first inkling that something was happening to me and I was like what is no, no, no, why is this happening? And I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna ignore it, I'm just gonna ignore it. But then people started talking about Fifty Shades of Grey and I was like, hmm, maybe I want to read that. And stupid me. I actually got the whole series and started reading it and, oh my God, it was so bad. Again, I was stuck in a Starbucks. I don't know what the heck I did. I was in Starbucks a lot and I was reading this. I almost felt like I needed to go to the bathroom and be a teenage boy and go rub one out in the bathroom.

Etienne:

And I was like no, no, I'm not doing that, but I would always go to bed before my husband at the time and I always knew I had a certain amount of time. If I wanted to take care of myself, I could do that with my 50 Shades of Grey book, whichever one I happened to be on at that time, and I would do it as fast as possible. I was like speed masturbator not get caught and it was also like a chore, Like I needed to get it out because I didn't really want to have a sex drive. I was with somebody who would not have sex with me more than twice a month and when it would happen it was 10 minutes each time. It was so fast. It was always the same, always the same amount of time on everything. Always hit those marks. We could have had a stopwatch. Oh, you were three seconds late on your orgasm. You're going to get in trouble.

Etienne:

Not really.

Etienne:

No, I didn't get in trouble if it took me longer than usual, but I mean, he knew exactly how to touch me in exactly the right way, and it was always the same and I always produce the same results. And then we then we, you know have intercourse, and then we'd be done, and 10 minutes from start to finish, and yeah. So I did not want to have my sex drive come up and that. Then he left me and I could have my sex drive because I was still horny. I was still very, very horny.

Etienne:

This all started when I was still in the last year and a half of our marriage is when the increased sex drive started and I didn't work to completely destroy it. I didn't do what I'd done before, which was, if a sexual thought came into my mind before, I would just, it was like meditation. I would just like, nope, just put the thought out of my mind. I'm not looking at that man, nope, nope. Not thinking about sex, nope.

Etienne:

But this time I just I let the thoughts come, but I didn't dwell on it, I just let them be. So it was kind of like if your sex drive on a normal person is a scale from like zero with none to 10, like you're a teenage boy, I think most women in a healthy marriage, I hope, would be at least a five, and in this instance I wasn't a five but I was probably like a three Because of the perimenopausal symptoms. That must have been what was happening to me. So when he left me and I could start having sex with other people again, I went just teensy bit nuts for a while there, and by teensy I mean I went crazy, yeah.

Etienne:

But

Heidi:

yeah

Etienne:

Heidi, did you experience that?

Etienne:

at all Like no

Heidi:

yeah

Heidi:

I had a surge for sure,

Etienne:

oh my God

Heidi:

Yeah, and yeah, it was after leaving my ex-husband as well, and yeah,

Etienne:

oh gosh.

Heidi:

Went a little crazy.

Etienne:

Oh, yeah

Heidi:

so I get it. Yeah, so you were still going in the surge or going through that surge when you went through your separation and divorce, so you were able to kind of

Etienne:

yeah, I rode the waves

Heidi:

Capitalize on it.

Etienne:

Yeah, I rode the waves of that surge all the way to meeting my now ex-boyfriend. And I mean I had two years of fun like two years of being not married to meeting my ex-boyfriend.

Etienne:

And then even still he will talk about because we were friends, and he will talk about every once in a while how I was obsessed with too much sex with him. I still hadn't gotten enough all the way out of my system, like needing a little bit too much, you know. So like literally I assumed every date there was gonna be something like I was expecting something, something sexual, I want it, yeah. And then he said yeah, and it was way too much time. He's like we spent hours having sex every time like I am sorry that you were forced to have sex for hours. That is so bad. You should go talk to your friends about that. That's torturous.

Heidi:

That's tragic, poor guy

Etienne:

I know.

Heidi:

Had a horny girlfriend.

Etienne:

I should have sent a card or condolences or something for all the sex he had to have.

Heidi:

Yeah, his 18 year old self is just like shaking its head.

Heidi:

dude, I would have killed for that

Jane:

well, I think that's why I was obsessed, when I went through my surge, with watching all these may december romances where there was an older woman and a younger man on netflix, because I'm like he could keep up. I think that's why I, you know I did that. Well, I mean, my husband was happy to accommodate when he could, but then he, you know, he was just like, oh my gosh, you know what's gotten into you, and I'm like I don't know. And so I started reading about it because I did feel a little bit embarrassed.

Jane:

Yeah, I said, why am I needing it so much more than you know? And I also was very. I mean, I'm very lucky that my husband's he's hot. I'm just going to say he's hot

Etienne:

yes

Jane:

So I would just look at him and just be like, oh yeah, it just, it was crazy. But I think he did feel a little bit objectified and um

Etienne:

oh, again

Jane:

laugh about it.

Jane:

Now

Etienne:

he could have a conversation with his younger self and go, shut the fuck up man come on, just take it.

Etienne:

She wants it, like

Jane:

for real you know, and we and we would, and it was, and it was funny and, like I said, we we laugh about it and you know, we still have a very healthy sex life, but it was, I was being a little, I was being a little needy, and I think that, uh, but then also with the mood swings that accompany perimenopause, I then would also be simultaneously staring at him, undressing him with my eyes, but then also irrationally angry at him for something that he may have done in a dream I had.

Jane:

You know, just really irrationally angry and indignation, and this actually had nothing to do with sex. I was starting to feel angsty about having spent so much of my life in service of others, because I was a teacher for a long time and then I became a mother and I do a lot for the people in my life. I feel like that's the great privilege of my life, you know, and a big part of what makes me happy is being in service of others. But with those initial mood swings, I had a really hard time with emotional regulation, which is actually something I've had a pretty good handle on for most of my life, because I can intellectualize my emotions and be very self-soothing and say, okay, we can work through this. Jane and I had some good self-talk and emotional regulation. All of that went out the window for a couple of months. I was just losing my mind.

Jane:

I was just

Etienne:

only a couple of months.

Etienne:

You really only had a couple of months

Jane:

yes, but it was a very hard couple of months. When I feel it happening now, because I don't think that it went away, I think I just maybe was able to get a handle on it, and but when it was first happening to me, it felt very much like that puberty in reverse of just

Heidi:

out of control

Jane:

yes, crying, but then feeling angry and then feeling horny like I, really like a teenager, uh,

Heidi:

yeah,

Jane:

having to go take care of myself in the bathroom, like during the middle of the day, like that would not even as a teenager. I wasn't like that, you know.

Heidi:

Yeah.

Heidi:

Thank God for really good vibrators that have come out in recent years, like cause, yeah.

Etienne:

The mood swings that you're talking about, jane. That was the first thing that I noticed about myself and I thought that I was menopausal. Because of that, I have an IUD and so I can't tell by missed periods if I was perimenopausal or menopausal or anything, because I didn't have a period so I couldn't go by that at all. But my mood, I was all over. I was joyous one second and then I'd find a sock on the floor. You're like why is that sock on the floor? Just like lose my mind over something that I would never lose my mind over. Not, not, not before, Any like hormonal changes were happening in my body. And I did mention that to the gynecologist when it just came up to be time for my exam, my yearly exam. And she's like well, I mean you could be menopausal. So she did do the test for the FSH level and it came back a few days later and it was like, plus the max number that they can give you, because I went beyond whatever the number was that they just didn't record it anymore. And that's supposed to mean you're in menopause. And she's like

Heidi:

yes

Etienne:

okay, well, why don't you make an appointment and we'll get your IUD out and I'm like hold on, let's not whip the sucker out Like I.

Etienne:

I've heard about women who are supposedly menopausal who still have spotting, and that was the whole reason why I got the IUD. I know I can. I can easily not get pregnant. I've never been pregnant in my life. I know how to like control that situation without an IUD. I got the IUD because of spotting and I do not want to have that happen again. So I actually did find out. Per the company who makes my IUD, I can keep it in three more years before having it removed, and that is what I'm going to do, and then for sure I will have avoided any kind of situational like anything that I've been wanting to avoid because I had way too many years of blood way too many. I do not. I don't think I deserve any more blood None at all.

Jane:

Same. I had very irregular periods when I first got them to the point where my first visit ever to a gynecologist I was bleeding, because I had been bleeding for four weeks straight and that had happened to me before and I said, okay, that's enough of this, I know this isn't normal. So that was when I was 17. And then later on then I had the same issue with spotting and that type of stuff. And then now in perimenopause the irregularity of the periods is another lovely little side effect, right. So I had true to fashion I was almost expecting it the puberty in reverse thing. I did have that happen to me again, where three weeks straight or four weeks straight, then not a period for three months you know enough to scare the shit out of you where you need to have pregnancy tests on hand.

Jane:

I'm 51 I'm not trying to be a mom again here, uh, and now I can't remember. I'm trying to remember my last period and I can't. I like panic when you go to the doctor and they ask you now when was the date of your last period? I'm like, does anybody know the answer to this question? I don't. I don't know. I'm thinking it's been.

Jane:

It's been a couple months and I'm hoping that I just get on the other side of this now, because it's been kind of nice not having it and I haven't had spotting. And I too have an IUD, but it doesn't have any hormones in it because I have rheumatoid arthritis and you're not supposed to engage in the hormonal therapy stuff. It's not really good for people with autoimmune diseases, so I try to avoid that. So mine is the Paragard, so it's just copper and I have several years left of it in. But I'm waiting until I'm totally on the other side and then they could take it out, because last time they had to go on an expedition to get it out it had moved a little bit kind of up and to the left, so they had to go in there with like some tools. It was not pleasant.

Jane:

So

Etienne:

I need to ask were you awake? When? I mean, what did they? Did they try to help you with some numbing of some kind when they went for their fishing expedition? For you?

Jane:

Oh, yeah, they did. They numbed me before they went fishing, so there was, and they even had a nurse sit in there and talk to me and hold my hand. So that was actually

Etienne:

Sorry

Jane:

Yeah, they did. She was very sweet and we made jokes and that's how you get through those types of uncomfortable situations. But I definitely will celebrate when we can take it out and there's no more periods. But so, heidi, your story scares me when I know this has happened, where you didn't have one for a year and actually Heidi and I were together.

Jane:

We were together on a yoga and meditation retreat?

Heidi:

Yeah

Jane:

and out of nowhere she's like.

Jane:

I just started my period and I went, oh no, and I felt like it was my fault because I was about to start mine.

Jane:

I didn't but.

Jane:

I had stuff with me and I had to give it to her because

Heidi:

yeah.

Heidi:

I didn't have it. Yeah, I thought I was done.

Heidi:

No

Etienne:

oh my God, that's awful. It wasn't like in the middle of a class where you like were wearing white yoga pants and then

Heidi:

no

Etienne:

Okay.

Etienne:

Good

Heidi:

thank God, no, no, but yeah, I'm over the bleeding. It's been 40 years, yes, and I'm with Jane Like there should be a party at the end of this. You know how they have baby showers and wedding showers. And like birthday parties, engagement parties, like, yeah, menopause parties, like we need to make that a thing because we deserve a big old party and gifts.

Etienne:

Yeah, I'm all for the party for the fact that the bleeding has stopped. But I have learned what the hormones actually do for the rest of our body, that we definitely need them. Like it's scary what happens if you you know

Heidi:

yeah

Etienne:

I mean, jane, you're just saying that it sounds like because of your autoimmune disorder that you're not going to be able to. I mean I'm guessing. Now tell me if I'm wrong. But does that mean you can never go on hormone replacement therapy then?

Jane:

I don't know if it means never. It may have to just be really specified. You know, for my circumstances it's not something that I've looked into. I know that it was recommended that I didn't do any kind of hormone birth control. After I got diagnosed, I did hormonal birth control. I was on the pill for years, to the point where when we got married and I went off of it, brendan was a little nervous that my personality would be different.

Etienne:

He said it's going to be nervous about that. Oh my God

Jane:

well he's. You know what

Etienne:

I mean. I can see the other way around.

Heidi:

It does happen

Etienne:

I can see it.

Etienne:

the other way around, though, because I've actually seen. I had a roommate who went on birth control pills when she was living in my house and she was in her late 30s and she got a little nuts and immediately found out she cannot take birth control. Like she was like what I was talking about with how I was with the labile rollercoaster mood swings. No, it was not fun, and she immediately just stopped and said well, let's be on condoms for me only, like great.

Heidi:

Well I don't they say something, or I could be wrong that pheromones change With birth control pills and then so, when women go off of them, their husbands aren't attracted to them anymore.

Jane:

That yes

Heidi:

or something. Yeah

Jane:

they impact that and and vice versa. You know, and because Brendan had only known me on birth control, he was wondering if I would be different off and it turns out I'm not, because I can't remember it's been so many years which one I was on, but it actually kept me pretty even keel. But they switched my birth control one time on me and I can't remember the reason why I switched it. I think I was having some issues with one initially. I think it might have probably breakthrough bleeding, because that was always the thing that would happen, and I was on something try something, tricycline. I can't remember what it was called, but for four days I was a basket case and I had never been like that before.

Jane:

Just the wild swings up and down and crying and feeling suicidal. And I called my doctor and I said I can't take this. It has to be this. This is the only thing that has changed in my life for the past four days are these stupid pills.

Etienne:

It took four days for you to go a little crazy from them.

Jane:

That's all it took. And so I think with some people, your body, just your chemistry, might have a volatile reaction to it, and I definitely did and I just I think that then the hormonal swings, then a perimenopause for me were almost mimicking that feeling, because when I said I had an extreme indignation you know horny but then also angry I'm like why am I doing all these things for everybody else? This should be my time in my life. I mean, I really was just so bitchy about it, you know, and I didn't vocalize it, but I definitely I don't usually have RBF, but I definitely

Etienne:

what's RBF? Resting bitch face.

Etienne:

But wait,

Jane:

but for those

Etienne:

oh sorry, yes, for those of you who don't know what RBF is like, I immediately was like wait, what is that Resting bitch face? Yes, but wait. Did he? Did he notice that look that you were describing where you were horny for him and at the same time like kind of angry at him for something? That in that one, like, did he notice those that, the expressions that you might've had?

Jane:

Yes, and he was.

Etienne:

I can't imagine like seeing your face like that and going like what is happening, like I don't even know how I'm supposed to react to this do I take her to the bedroom or do I get in the car and drive away like

Jane:

he may have wanted to at some times because it wouldn't happen simultaneously, but it would definitely happen in the span of 10 minutes.

Jane:

Wild fluctuation where I was imagining I mean something. He would just do something stupid like not clean the counters the way that I do which, by the way, he still doesn't, but it just doesn't bother me as much.

Etienne:

Yeah

Jane:

you know, I make sure there's no crumbs, I have a method. But during that time period I would just see something like that and just in my mind immediately start thinking insane thoughts like how much our insurance policy is worth. That's where my mind would go

Etienne:

Wait, wait.

Etienne:

His life insurance policy. Is that what you just? Is that what you're talking about?

Jane:

Yes,

Jane:

over

Heidi:

how much

Heidi:

would I get?

Etienne:

I don't think you're going to get the money if you murder him Jane.

Jane:

Over crumbs. I didn't want to murder him, I just thought. You know, he is just with the toothpaste in the sink and the crumbs on the counter. I just would be. What would it be like without? And then I would immediately start crying from guilt for thinking something so horrific. And then sometimes I would call him at work just to check in with him and say I love you. I would just feel so incredibly guilty

Etienne:

Because you're so guilty.

Jane:

So guilty, and then immediately want to jump his bones when he came home. It was just ridiculous.

Etienne:

I'm feeling like maybe

Jane:

I felt like a crazy person.

Etienne:

I feel like there maybe there should be a menopausal insurance policy that we can take out for our crazy behaviors that may result in murder.

Heidi:

Yeah, we can't be held liable.

Heidi:

If you piss us off

Etienne:

if we're on a roller coaster of hormones, we cannot be in control of our actions. It takes everything within our power. Okay, so wait. When I did tell the gynecologist and she checked my hormone level, she's like, well, you are 50. I was 50 something at the time, 51, I think, when this happened.

Etienne:

And she's like you can go on this antidepressant that suppose it was Paxil. Pretty sure it was Paxil and it's a low dose. So it's not the same dose that somebody would start Paxil if you are using it for depression or anxiety or whatever they use Paxil for. The dose for menopause is half of that. And so I was like, is that okay? Like that's my option, like that's what she gave me, that was my only option. I was like I'll try this and I waited the allotted amount of time that it takes for these to actually start working, which I think is like three or more weeks, right, and I felt slightly better, but not really because that wasn't the problem. The problem wasn't in my brain per se. It was my lack of estrogen and testosterone and progesterone in my body that was causing the issues, not whatever brain chemistry the Paxil works on. It just might be one of those things like, yes, paxil might technically work, but maybe it's working because placebos work for people. They take it and they tell you it's going to work and you're like, okay, I'll try it and it might work, because you're taking a pill and you think it's going to do something for you, whereas I was like, is this really going to do anything? Because I don't want to be on this.

Etienne:

And then when I started getting the pellets put in me with the hormones, which was only three months later, I had to then wean myself off of the Paxil because it's dangerous to just stop cold turkey. On any of most of these antidepressants you can have horrible reactions where you might end up hospitalized, so that is not okay. So I had to, like, step myself down slowly over time and actually it wasn't the mood swings that sent me to go get hormones. I was complaining about my mood swings to my hairdresser because I hadn't been to my hairdresser she a long time, and when I was describing the issues I was having about my mood swings to my hairdresser she said to me well, I have a bunch of clients who are around your age who got their hormones tested and they went and got hormone replacement therapy. And she told me the name of the place here in our city and I was like, well, I think I got to try that.

Etienne:

I got an appointment, I went and had a consult. I saw the book on the table called Estrogen Matters. They told me some things about estrogen and female hormones in general that I didn't know about. And I went ahead and got that book while I was waiting for my appointment to get my labs drawn for the first time and I read that book fast. That thing was available at the library. I was like, yep, gonna read it right now. And I literally read it within a few days and I was shocked by what I learned and just horrified that back in the year 2000, the Women's Health Initiative basically did a study that caused every woman who was on hormone replacement therapy to believe that they were all going to get breast cancer because they were getting hormones.

Etienne:

And wasn't true

Heidi:

it wasn't true

Etienne:

no, and it's still out there.

Etienne:

They're still. So I work with a lot of very young nurses I work with like nurses in their 20s and they've just come out of nursing school and they still they think you're not allowed to have hormones, like they think that. So that means it's still being taught

Heidi:

being taught

Heidi:

That's, that's yeah, that's criminal,

Etienne:

yeah, and

Heidi:

cause there's so many women that have to fight for it now.

Etienne:

Yeah.

Etienne:

And yeah, and it's not covered by insurance. My pallets are not covered by insurance. I have to pay for that out of pocket. I don't care, I need them, but yes, it's not covered. So I think we need to go to Congress and start lobbying that this is something we need and you know what? It's going to protect us from all kinds of things that we all worry about having happened to us as we age as a woman, which I totally want to cover this in another episode, so we'll get a nitty gritty of that another time.

Heidi:

Yeah, I'm afraid that they're just gonna slowly take away any hormone replacement.

Etienne:

If they do, I'm just gonna keep paying for it out of pocket. If they try to take it all the way away, completely out of the country, I'll have to go to Mexico and get my pellets or something or Canada or whatever. I will do whatever. I'm not going off of them now that I've had them.

Etienne:

I do not want to go back.

Heidi:

Women across the country would be doing that yeah.

Etienne:

But actually the symptom that prompted me to I need to do something more than this ridiculous little Paxil pill that's doing nothing for me was I had two incidences of incontinence where I was doing absolutely nothing and urine leaked out of me. One time I was just standing at my back door not moving and I felt it. It felt like when you have your period, like the very very first flow that comes out. That's what it felt like and I'm like wait, did I just get my period? I checked and nope, that was urine. And I'm like what is happening? I was under the impression that I was never going to have urinary incontinence as an older woman because I never had a child, so I thought I'm safe. Turns out I'm not safe.

Etienne:

That muscle is affected by low estrogen and the other thing that happened that even worse than that was it was happening during intercourse. So I would find out after having sex with my then boyfriend that there was some urine on him, like it might have just been a drop, but it was enough for me to notice and I had to tell him like, yeah, so this is happening and I'm very sorry and I'm going to do everything I can to find out how to fix this. Within a week of starting the hormones I had sex and nothing happened. It already had worked. It's that fast

Jane:

that quickly.

Heidi:

My head was already better too.

Etienne:

My mind was fine, my body had responded yes. That's how quickly things can turn around for you.

Jane:

Thank you for talking about that and I think that a lot of people feel very embarrassed about some of the things that we've been talking about and when it happens to them, it just feels like no one could possibly be going through this. I'm very grateful that I'm going through this stage of my life in the age of the Internet, because for all of the dark corners of the Internet me Googling why am I so horny in my mid-40s? Which is just a lifesaver

Etienne:

What

Etienne:

are you gonna do

Jane:

like that's

Etienne:

uh in the old days. What are you gonna go to the librarian and ask them?

Jane:

oh, oh my god, I couldn't imagine asking my local library like, excuse me, can you direct me to where the horny 40? You're like that,

Etienne:

horny and 40

Jane:

that's kind of. I think that might have even been the name of one of the blogs I came across. But like people talking about this, I think is really important. And the incontinence thing I did have a baby and I didn't have that until recently. It's not a big issue, but if I haven't gone to the bathroom recently and I'm laughing a lot and I feel a sneeze coming on

Etienne:

oh no

Jane:

that's the trifecta. I gotta, I gotta go to the bathroom.

Etienne:

Wait, do you literally laugh and sneeze at the same time? Does that happen to you? Like, is that possible?

Jane:

Well, it's South Carolina in March and so, yes, the pollen is so gross that that that has happened to me a couple of times just in the past three days, where I'm talking with somebody and I'm laughing with my daughter or with my husband and I also have had a cup of tea and I feel a sneeze coming on and I have to excuse myself because I know it's going to be an issue and that wasn't an issue just a couple of years ago.

Etienne:

Every time I go to Costco I see an older lady, older like in her 60s, possibly 70s with a giant bulk size of poise I think it's called poise. They're panty liners for ladies who release some urine unexpectedly. And that just made me so sad because I know what happened to me and I know how I fixed it and they can't fix it now. I literally can't like go on hormones.

Etienne:

If it's been more than I think, five years that you've hit menopause. It's actually not safe for you to go on hormones at that point. There's a safe window, and that was how that Women's Health Initiative study messed with us, because they use women way too old way past menopause, and of course that is bad for you. You've got to do it in a shorter amount of time.

Heidi:

Yeah, it was a very flawed study and they had to retract a lot of this stuff too.

Etienne:

Yeah, but it's too late.

Heidi:

The media sensationalized a part of it because they had to stop the study because a couple of the women but they were the older ones yeah, like you said, that shouldn't have been in the study to begin with.

Etienne:

No, no, no, it definitely should not have been in the study. No so annoying. I don't understand. I would love to know what the motivation was behind that. Was somebody really worried that we were going to get breast cancer? Or was somebody for some reason against women having hormones past menopause? I don't understand, like what the purpose of that was, honestly.

Jane:

We may never know, but you're inspiring me to have a conversation with my doctor about this.

Jane:

An autoimmune thing.

Etienne:

I want all of us to, if we can read the book that I read called Estrogen Matters, and then we're going to really dive into this.

Heidi:

And that's our show. You've been listening to the Women Are Plotting. If you have a story you'd like to share or have any comments, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at info@ thewomenareplottingcom, and, of course, you can find us on all the socials. Thanks and until next time. Be safe and be excellent to each other.

People on this episode

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Etienne Rose Olivier

Co-host
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Heidi Willis

Co-host
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Jane Gari

Co-host