From Reality Bites To Raves: The 90s Unfiltered

What if your favorite night out started with a paper flyer, a record shop clerk, and a map to a secret checkpoint? We rewind to the 90s and talk about the joy and grit of an analog life: finding raves by word of mouth, calling home from payphones that smelled like a thousand mornings, and guarding your cash, keys, and dignity in a pocket instead of a cloud. Reality Bites kicks off a bigger question that defined our generation—what does it mean to sell out—and we follow that thread through college radio, grunge, and the warehouse floors where strangers turned into friends.

We share the stories that never made it to social feeds: the after-hours marathons, the black dust in your nose that proved you danced hard, the thrill of airports when you could walk loved ones to the gate, and the chaos of getting lost without Google Maps until a stranger’s directions finally clicked. There’s real talk about safety and power too—mosh pits, elbows, and the moments when harassment exposed the worst of L.A.'s music industry—and how music still gave us a place to burn anger into something cleaner. Along the way, we remember thrifted flannels, the Rachel haircut, MTV’s Liquid Television, and the stubborn weight of a single photo you had to wait weeks to see.

If you’ve ever wondered why authenticity mattered so much—why some bands refused merch, why mixtapes felt sacred, why a twenty in an old coat could redeem a week—this conversation will feel like a mixtape made just for you. We also look forward, noticing how Gen Z embraces thrifting and pushes back on overconsumption, and we ask what a hybrid life could look like: digital tools with analog soul. Hit play, travel back with us, and then tell us your story. Subscribe, share with a friend who lived their own warehouse nights, and leave a review with the 90s song that still hits you in the chest.

Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com, and find us on all the socials. Be safe and be excellent to each other.

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The 90s Stage
• 0:19 Ben Stiller's Theatrical Directorial Debut
• 1:59 How the Spice Girls Got Their Names
• 2:51 Gym Culture, Boundaries, And Gen X Vibes
• 4:02 Jane's Fun Fact About Raves
• 5:48 Overseas In The 90s And Media Delays
• 7:40 The Movie, "Go"
• 10:10 MTV Oddities And Party Drugs
• 10:43 Hair, Fashion, And Pre-Phone Photos
• 11:18 Analog Travel, Maps, And Getting Lost
• 18:33 NY vs L.A. Rave Scene
• 26:07 Answering Machines, Calling Cards & Pay Phones
• 28:15 How We Mostly Used Cash
• 32:43 How Airports Used to Be & Today's Security Theater
• 35:27 People Smoked Everywhere
• 38:19 Anti-establishment Sentiments in the 90s
• 39:00 Thrift Stores
• 41:58 Grunge Era Fashion
• 43:50 Jane's Fugazi Experience
• 45:10 Mosh Pits as Violence Outlets
• 47:00 Jane & Etty's Experiences Being Groped
• 55:40 Life Before the Internet & Social Media

Transcript

[00:00:00] Etienne: Welcome listeners. This is The Women Are Plotting. I'm Etienne Rose Olivier and I'm here with my friends and co-hosts, Heidi Willis and Jane Gari.

[00:00:15] Etienne: Today's episode we're gonna talk about our experience in the nineties. And, my fun fact for today is about Ben Stiller and his first directorial debut for feature length film was Reality Bites from 1994. I am bringing this up because not everybody listening may know about Reality Bites because literally my ex-boyfriends, who's 13 years younger than me does not know about this film.

[00:00:41] Etienne: He did not see it. It stars Winona Rider, Ethan Hawk, Ben Stiller, Janine Garofolo and Steve Hanh. And it follows an aspiring videographer that's played by Winona Ryder, and she's making a documentary about the disenchanted lives of her friends and roommates. And, I think the funny part in that movie though too, is that Ben Stiller in the movie is working on a reality show and Ethan Hawk's character just will not let up about how he's such a sellout basically, and how he's not a real person.

[00:01:14] Etienne: He doesn't really do it in front of him. Obviously he does it to Winona Rider behind Ben Stiller's back. I actually bought the film yesterday, so I'm gonna watch it again today. I was trying to watch it before we did this episode, but I didn't get chance. Heidi, what is your fun or interesting fact for today?

[00:01:30] Heidi: So at first I had tickle me Elmo,

[00:01:34] Etienne: Oh my God.

[00:01:34] Heidi: which I apparently was gonna be Tickle me, Taz. 'cause 

[00:01:38] Etienne: What. 

[00:01:38] Heidi: were developing it as a, um. I guess Tyco didn't have the rights to make plush twice, so it was gonna be a tickle me Taaz Looney Tunes type thing. But thankfully they got,

[00:01:53] Etienne: Oh,

[00:01:53] Heidi: they got the rights and it became Tickle Me Elmo.

[00:01:57] Heidi: But now the one that I came up with, so the Spice Girls did not come up with their nicknames. It was actually a magazine editor and his staff who came up with them as part of a feature they were running on the group. According to Scary Spice, the journalist who wrote the feature was too lazy to remember their names.

[00:02:17] Etienne: that's so approved. Like that's, 

[00:02:19] Heidi: And just gave them all nicknames. And then they said, honestly, the journalist laziness was probably one of the best things that could have happened to them

[00:02:28] Etienne: oh my God, that

[00:02:29] Heidi: it was their nicknames that made them very unique. 

[00:02:31] Etienne: That is so good. I love that.

[00:02:34] Heidi: isn't that. Too lazy to learn their names.

[00:02:37] Etienne: that is so appropriate. That's so a guy thing. Yes.

[00:02:43] Jane: Oh my gosh. I'm sorry. I'm like floored by that. But I feel, I don't know. I think that that happens in everyday life now. Like there's some guy who at the gym who doesn't know my name and he's just always calling me different things. He called me Boss the other day. I am like, what?

[00:02:57] Etienne: But is he,

[00:02:58] Jane: He was just like, what's up boss?

[00:03:00] Jane: And I'm like, okay. 

[00:03:01] Etienne: does he, is he just a fellow member or does he work there?

[00:03:05] Jane: He's a fellow member, so he's just always there at the same time. I'm there on Mondays and there's a couple of people that were like the same Monday workout time, and speaking in the nineties, he smacked me in the butt the other day when he was just like, Hey. He was like, get it.

[00:03:20] Jane: And he had a towel, and he just kind of like gave me a little, like, bam. And, I didn't know how to take it and I thought. Okay, is this, have I made it Now I'm like one of the Jim Bros. Because he would've done that to a dude and I think that that's what it was. And we all have discussions about what kind of music we're gonna play on it because we are all Gen Xers who are there at the same time every Monday, but they were more metalheads.

[00:03:45] Jane: But then some of their sensibilities overlap with where my alternative metal stuff does. So we actually will have discussions 'cause we're some of the only people in there that don't constantly have earbuds in because we're Gen X and we wanna listen to our music outside of our earbuds. But, so my fun fact actually is also about music because my experience of the nineties was.

[00:04:08] Jane: Very, very marked by my rave experience. And so my fun fact is the record for the longest dance party was achieved by unique Events Limited. They are an outfit out of Ireland. And this happened on October 27th, 2006. And it went for 55 hours and I think

[00:04:34] Heidi: 55? That's, that's

[00:04:35] Jane: hours. That's over two days. And when I saw that, and this happened in Wexford Island, I thought, I feel like when it wasn't being recorded for Guinness or whatever, that we broke that record just as like my group of friends, like maybe, but not for one continuous party.

[00:04:55] Jane: But we would start on Friday nights and I would take what we always called a disco nap, you know? And then go to the city and go usually to a club on Friday night that still was playing techno and or house or a combo with the both. And then, so depending on how late we stayed out, then we'd go to a different club that had an after hours thing and then maybe we'd crash in Central Park or at somebody's dorm room or some and recover.

[00:05:22] Jane: So I guess it doesn't count 'cause we weren't dancing the whole time. We took naps, then we'd go to a rave on Saturday and then go to the after hour party on Sunday

[00:05:31] Etienne: Damn.

[00:05:32] Jane: and then recover Sunday afternoon or maybe not go to sleep until maybe early, like go to sleep on at Sunday at 7:00 PM and then just wake up on Monday and go to work and school and whatever we had going on.

[00:05:44] Jane: But that was my deal. And , don't be mad at me Etienne, but I never saw reality bites. 

[00:05:52] Jane: I, I never saw it. And I, I ev, every time I 

[00:05:56] Etienne: Come on. 

[00:05:57] Jane: people have this reaction and you guys are both looking at me like, what? But I, when you were talking about it, I looked it up. 'cause I love Winona Ryder and Love Ethan Hawk.

[00:06:07] Jane: Uh, and Ben Stiller is, I, I wrote it down to watch later and I was like, why didn't I see it? And it's because it came out in February of 1994 and I was living in England and it 

[00:06:18] Etienne: They don't have movie theaters 

[00:06:19] Jane: out. They do, but they, they do, but they don't carry all of everything, and when they do, sometimes it's months

[00:06:27] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah. It can be a year later.

[00:06:30] Jane: Right. So especially back then, so if it came out in February of 1994 and I was still in England, and then I moved back to the States that summer when it came out, and it was just enough for me to miss the window. Like it probably came out in England. Then after I moved back to the States and it was already out of the theaters in the States.

[00:06:48] Jane: So I would just hear, I've just heard people talk about how awesome this movie is

[00:06:52] Etienne: it really is Now you're gonna watch it. 

[00:06:55] Jane: I have to watch it now because I feel like it would probably be even more prescient for me now and just, I would probably get a lot out of it. So on the list.

[00:07:06] Etienne: Oh, good. I did watch the beginning of the movie and she's graduating as like the valedictorian of, or whatever you call it for college. And it's 1994 and I'm like, that is the, I graduated college in 1994, at least the first time around. I got my first bachelor's in 1994.

[00:07:25] Etienne: And, that just seems extra like just right on point for me, you know?

[00:07:31] Jane: I think when something yeah, aligns with where you were at a certain place and point in time that it should resonate with you and that's why I should also have seen the movie Go 

[00:07:43] Jane: and have 

[00:07:44] Etienne: Oh God. I love

[00:07:45] Etienne: that movie. I've seen it so many times. Timothy Han in that movie is so sexy.

[00:07:51] Heidi: Yes. 

[00:07:52] Etienne: So. 

[00:07:53] Heidi: Seriously. I did. You know what? I did see that even though I was in Germany, so I relate with you Jane about missing out on some things 'cause you were overseas. So I was overseas for like half the nineties. I was in Ecuador quite a few times, Panama, and then went to South Korea in 97 and went from Korea to Germany shortly after that and didn't make it back to the States until 2001.

[00:08:22] Heidi: So yeah, there's several things that happened during that time that people will bring it up and I have no clue. So it's like, it's wild that I miss 

[00:08:33] Etienne: Was this with the Air Force? Is this why you were traveling

[00:08:35] Heidi: yeah. Air Force. Yeah. Yep. And we would. Get some shows over there and different kind of pulp culturey type things. Like we had the Armed Forces network and I remember watching Survivor, 

[00:08:51] Etienne: Yeah. 

[00:08:52] Heidi: like the first season of Survivor over there, and it had already played the year before in the States.

[00:08:57] Heidi: So I knew what was about to happen. Everybody else was like, 'cause I had Entertainment Weekly. I was, 

[00:09:03] Etienne: Oh, I love ener. I used to live. Yeah, So sad when that stopped being a thing. 

[00:09:08] Heidi: I know, I know. That was, yeah, I was, I was a subscriber from the beginning. So when they had like their big 20th anniversary I wrote in, I was like, I've been a subscriber since the beginning.

[00:09:22] Jane: I feel like with television and magazines for me though, is kind of mostly a void for the nineties. 'cause I just didn't, I just didn't, during 

[00:09:32] Jane: that 

[00:09:32] Etienne: didn't,

[00:09:32] Heidi: Yeah. 

[00:09:33] Jane: I, I just didn't, I mean, I would sometimes watch, friends and. Like weird stuff. No,

[00:09:41] Etienne: I didn't watch ity either. Yeah. What about er, ER was on the same, wasn't er the same night as friends just later?

[00:09:47] Jane: Yes, it was a Thursday thing but I think it's just because of what I, it was college for me, and then I started teaching and then I was teaching English and the grading papers took up so much of my time. This is why I had to rave all weekend long to just as a fucking chaser to dealing with these kids.

[00:10:04] Jane: Um, and I, yeah, it was very rare. Or I watched, some weird, weird things on MTV, like very late at night. After I went out and did something, I'd be watching liquid television and it would be weird stuff like Eon Flux and the Max and just strange, trippy stuff. Because the nineties for me were also the decade that I did a lot of recreational trucks, just as that's the decade I became.

[00:10:32] Jane: A stoner. And then I did do a lot of ecstasy in the nineties. And yeah, that was like, that was the only decade in which I did do ecstasy. uh,

[00:10:43] Heidi: Guys ever have the Rachel haircut?

[00:10:46] Jane: I, 

[00:10:46] Etienne: have good 

[00:10:47] Jane: I did, 

[00:10:48] Etienne: I don't have enough hair to do to Rachel. I didn't, I didn't have it.

[00:10:52] Jane: I had kind of a version of it, and then I did have, I had chunks of bright magenta, kind of stripes in my hair. And,

[00:11:01] Heidi: would've liked to

[00:11:03] Jane: it was really cool. 

[00:11:04] Jane: And then, but then it, 

[00:11:06] Etienne: Like you have to

[00:11:07] Etienne: what? 

[00:11:08] Jane: but they had any phones 

[00:11:09] Etienne: Not phones. There were cameras. 

[00:11:12] Jane: There were,

[00:11:13] Etienne: existed.

[00:11:15] Jane: they were, they did, but I just, but I didn't take pictures often.

[00:11:19] Jane: Even when I traveled, I didn't really take that many pictures. And then sometimes when I did, I was, I. Not the best photographer. And then I would mess it up on the way home and sometimes have the film running through the scanner, and then I'd go to get it developed at the photo mat and it would come back and half of the pictures were just black.

[00:11:36] Jane: It's just like, that's what, and I paid for it. I paid for this photos of, of darkness. And that actually upset me because I did just spend a year living in England. I went to the University of Sussex, 1993 to 1994 and traveled a lot while I was over there. And I took rolls and rolls of film that just never came out.

[00:11:58] Jane: And I had pictures of, I was obsessed at the time with graffiti and like artful graffiti, not just someone writing like fuck in the side of a building, like actual. Artistry and I would go to sketchy area. Like When I look back on this now, I'm not telling my daughter these stories 'cause I don't want her to get emboldened with doing this stupid stuff.

[00:12:21] Jane: But I would go to a sketchy area of different cities in Europe and take pictures of graffiti and. Thankfully, I have a good memory and I remember what I saw, but I have no photographic evidence of it. And it makes me sad because I stepped over some sketchy looking people, sleeping under bridges to take pictures and then don't have anything to show for it.

[00:12:43] Jane: But when it was, , I, in Rome, like down by this hyper river that runs the room, there was, , these under this bridge because I could see it from a walkway alongside the river. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I have to go get close and take a picture of this. 'cause I had a stupid camera, it didn't have a telephoto lens or anything, so I'm like, I have to get close for the close up, you know?

[00:13:02] Jane: So I'm like literally stepping over homeless and dodging human shit to try to get a picture of it was a flock of nuns that had alien faces and like the typical alien face that was on the cover of that book, communion in the eighties. So, and it was. So freaky looking. And I was like, ah.

[00:13:24] Jane: And it wasn't dark yet, so, but it was about to be, so I'm like, all right, let me go down and step over all these weird people. But to get this picture, nobody bothered me. Which I'm grateful for, and some other cool graffiti, I saw in Amsterdam. Um, and I was just too, I know that I wasn't that fucked up, that what I saw wasn't real because I kept running into the same, I was fucked up enough that I kept encountering the same piece of graffiti over and over again because I was very lost.

[00:13:53] Jane: The streets of Amsterdam are very labyrinthine.

[00:13:58] Heidi: Europe in general is

[00:14:00] Jane: Like you're in some 

[00:14:01] Heidi: I, I got lost many times in places,

[00:14:05] Jane: are like, where am I? This is before, I'm so happy that I had these travel experiences in the nineties, though, in the days where it was still analog and I wasn't just Google mapping my way out of a scenario.

[00:14:15] Jane: Well, because then, yeah, I wouldn't have had as much fun and like, now it's this hilarious story of me and my boyfriend at the time just, we were trying to find this rave and we knew it was on Ver Wall Street and we were like, I don't even know if we're saying that. Right? To ask people like, where's bu Wall Street?

[00:14:32] Jane: And they would give us directions and then we'd still end up in front of the same piece of graffiti. And, it was a person, it was on this wall, the side of a house. And all of them, these houses were kind of leaning towards the canals there that are, because Amsterdam is below sea level, some of the houses over the years, they kind of like are leaning towards these different canals and like their dike system and they're being propped up literally with these.

[00:14:57] Jane: Metal poles is what they looked like that were kind of then built into the building. And I was very high. So I'm thinking these buildings are gonna fall on me. And then I would see this graffiti and it was a man with a very cartoonish man and his head was coming, the top of his head was flipped open like some kind of money, python slash can opener looking thing.

[00:15:17] Jane: And then you could see his brain, his brain was like sizzling, like it was literally cooking. And it was just hilarious 'cause we were both high and we felt like this guy was, uh, embodying how we felt and that we were so fried that we couldn't find Rebo Wall Street. We eventually did and the rave was awesome, but uh, getting there was crazy.

[00:15:35] Etienne: Things that might be hard for people to understand too is back in the nineties when you're traveling overseas in countries where English is not their official language, they did not speak English very often. You would be stuck having to have your English, German, or English french or whatever dictionary with you. 'Cause you. Didn't have phone. That would also act as a translator. You were stuck. You had to, you had no choice. But to try to communicate with people who very often spoke very 

[00:16:05] Heidi: You had those books. Yep,

[00:16:09] Etienne: You'd have to buy a regular map, a map, a paper map to try to find your way.

[00:16:16] Heidi: The amount of paper you, you had to carry with you. books, the paper. Yeah.

[00:16:22] Jane: the directions that somebody wrote down for you, 'cause they were kind enough and now you're looking at it a lot of, did you ever make a map for somebody like trying to explain to them how to get to your house? On the back of a envelope, you're literally drawing, okay.

[00:16:36] Jane: And then you're gonna pass the gas station, it's gonna be on your left and then, but if you hit the school, you've gone too far. Like there was always like, 

[00:16:42] Etienne: yeah, Yeah. if you've gone too far. I love that part. Yeah. 

[00:16:47] Jane: And it was, I mean, literally if you get lost, you're pulling over and asking a stranger for directions and hoping that they don't fuck with you, because I do remember in the nineties fucking with a 

[00:16:58] Etienne: What? I never fucked with people with directions. I literally would tell them the real directions. What?

[00:17:04] Jane: I only did that if they were mean or sexist.

[00:17:07] Etienne: Oh okay. What were they 

[00:17:08] Jane: So there was 

[00:17:09] Etienne: they being what? What did they do? Like seriously, they were just being rude.

[00:17:14] Jane: Like just ogling me in a very obvious way and licking their lips and then telling me where they needed directions to. So I gave them directions to the local police station One time, I came like, yeah, just, yeah, just messing with them for being a jerk. I felt like I wanted to live out my favorite Radiohead song of like Karma Police. I'm like, I will be the Karma Police. I'm going to give you directions to somewhere you did not wanna go, 

[00:17:41] Etienne: Was 

[00:17:41] Jane: but maybe you should, 

[00:17:42] Etienne: more in, New York City or New York? Is this in Long Island that this would happen more often than not, or No.

[00:17:48] Jane: various places. I did it in England once, even though I didn't drive, like I was walking and someone had asking me and he was being obnoxious and so I just made up stuff. I'm like, I don't know where he ended up. I was like, I don't drive here. Like the whole time I lived in England, I did not drive once because I almost got hit crossing the street when I first moved there because I had to look the opposite way of what you're used to before you cry. 

[00:18:10] Heidi: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:11] Etienne: Saved my life, pulling back because I would've been dead

[00:18:15] Jane: Yes. 

[00:18:15] Etienne: first day in London. Yeah.

[00:18:18] Jane: I, yes. I had people who did that too. They're just like, what are you doing in love? And I'm like, I don't, apparently trying to get hit by a car, I, I'm not trying to do this. It's just a lifetime of reflexes are the opposite of what I'm supposed to do in this situation. So it's hard. But yeah, and I went to raves in England too, like Ra just the nineties.

[00:18:37] Jane: That was all like literally it started in 1991, I moved to New York and they were underway and I was like, this is amazing. And just how it was a cross section of people from all different backgrounds and all different socioeconomic situations and we all were just united in this, it sounds such a, like a hippy dippy thing, but it was, we were all united by the music.

[00:19:02] Jane: and I did not do. Any kind of recreational drugs. For my first year in the rave scene, I just loved the music so much that when I finally did do Ecstasy and I'm like, oh, this is even better. This is just the same. I was like, now I can stay up. 

[00:19:16] Heidi: Now you can see the music. 

[00:19:18] Jane: Well, it was more of like, now I can, um, stay up for three

[00:19:22] Heidi: Yeah. That true.

[00:19:24] Jane: Three days. Now I can live up to the 55 hour longest dance party, Guinness Book of World Records thing. But back to the whole , in the analog era, like raves, there was no internet promoting these things. You literally would find out, because you would go to a record store that sold techno records and they would post up, like when I say post folks, now, if you're younger than us, like not social media posts, like literally a poster, a paper poster in the window, or they would write on the window in soap rave tonight, and then you had to go in. And they would give you a map and a set of directions on paper to the checkpoint because a lot of these parties were 

[00:20:07] Etienne: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:08] Jane: And once you got to the checkpoint, there was a person or a group of people that would then tell you verbally the directions, the rest of the way there. And that was how they were like, back in that time.

[00:20:18] Jane: They, before they were hosted by big clubs and other venues and that type of thing. You would literally be like, the first rave I ever went to was in an auto garage that had been swept out for the evening 'cause when I looked up, the jacks and stuff were still there. And it was just

[00:20:33] Etienne: Wow. 

[00:20:34] Jane: like, this is so nuts. And a lot of them were like that. Or just warehouses that. You would come home with just dust in your nose of just like what you'd blow your nose. And we used to call it like, that's how you knew it was a great party. Like all this black stuff would come outta your nose from the dust that was kicked up from everybody dancing in these warehouses.

[00:20:51] Jane: And I look back on that now, I'm like, maybe that's why I need an inhaler now. It was all the raves, but, 

[00:20:56] Etienne: my lord. 

[00:20:57] Heidi: Inhaling all the lead paint

[00:21:00] Jane: uh, who as best, who freaking knows, but to be honest with you, worth it, but like worth it. I met some of my best friends that I'm still friends with now, and that's how I met my husband. So.

[00:21:14] Heidi: Did you ever go to a rave etienne? 

[00:21:16] Etienne: Yes I did, but they weren't illegal, not the ones I went to, because I feel like I got into the scene after the fact.

[00:21:22] Etienne: My boyfriend who was the concert promoter, he started out doing the illegal raves and that's how he made money and made a name for himself in Los Angeles, was through the illegal raves.

[00:21:34] Etienne: And then he got a real job, which is when I met him, working for Avalon, which was a concert promotion company. They put on the concerts in Los Angeles and some in Orange County, and some, I think in Santa Barbara as well.

[00:21:46] Etienne: I actually did the one in San Diego. He did the Nine Inch Nails Show in San Diego. Thanks to me. Yes. So.

[00:21:53] Heidi: Did, did they eventually create a club? Because I went to a club called Avalon in 

[00:21:59] Etienne: No, no, 

[00:21:59] Heidi: That was the first time I ever did ecstasy, was at Avalon. 

[00:22:03] Etienne: Yeah. No, not the same thing. That would be a different place. He kind of acted like grapes were his past thing and he didn't really think they were cool anymore. Hold on a second.

[00:22:12] Jane: So I could see that you actually said, Angus, shut up.

[00:22:17] Etienne: Sorry. Yes, so Tema, he was the concept promoter and yeah, so he did the illegal raves and he had the checkpoints. So you would have your little piece of paper that would tell you directions to the first checkpoint. And that was to make sure that police didn't know where to go. 'cause his, I think were usually in abandoned warehouses in Los Angeles.

[00:22:39] Etienne: So I don't know how many he did, but then he got a real job with a concert promotion company. And that's when I met him. But he was not making a lot of money. I remember he was making such terrible money and he could see how much the company was making. So he was waiting, he was biding his time. And then eventually he got a job at, oh my lord, I just forgot the name of the company. They're part of Universal Studios. But yeah, he got a job, a real job and was making really good money for back then, like really good. And we were living together and he said, Hey, so why don't you don't you graduate college? Why don't you just try to be a screenwriter and don't get a job? And I'm like, that sounds great.

[00:23:21] Etienne: That did not last very long. I could not do it. I could not do, just trying to be a writer was not working. Uh, I wasn't the right personality type at the time. I was too wanting to see people and do things. But, so we did still go to, to answer your questions, we did go to smaller RAs, so ones that were held in people's houses. So they were big enough to where they would have like the dance room and then enough toilets. That's really sad 'cause there were not enough toilets. So there would sometimes, as soon as I would get there, I would get in line for the bathroom as soon as we would get there and take my ecstasy. Inline because I always had not just, , I wouldn't always vomit, but, they were caught with baby laxatives usually. Um,

[00:24:04] Jane: Yeah. 

[00:24:05] Etienne: so no

[00:24:07] Etienne: matter, '

[00:24:08] Heidi: 'em with laxatives? 

[00:24:09] Etienne: yeah. So they made them with baby laxatives. Yeah. I don't know why. I mean, I wasn't snorting these things, so cut is a weird way to put it, but they would mix it with baby laxatives and everybody had the same problem. So we all had to have a poo like within 30, 20, 30 minutes of being there, and we had no control over it. So yeah, I would just get in line and then just hope, please don't make me have to. I did, I never had an accident, but I was always so worried. It was like I was squeezing, squeezing and then I could go have fun after I had my p and and vomit. Sometimes I would vomit too, so sometimes I would have to vomit while I was in line. And then they'd have a big trash can for you to vomit in. So I'd be like, I'll be right back. And I'd have to like go vomit and I'll be right back. And so I'd get back and lie. I mean, the things we had to go through. And then I would just dance and he would worry about me getting dehydrated.

[00:25:04] Etienne: Just, you know, like handing me water because I would just not drink anything and just go crazy. It was so much fun though. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Uh,

[00:25:18] Jane: I 

[00:25:18] Etienne: I wish you could go back. Could we just go back for like a month? That would be amazing.

[00:25:25] Heidi: I missed out 'cause I was in the Air 

[00:25:28] Etienne: you did miss out. So wait, what years were you in the Air force for? What, when did you join?

[00:25:33] Heidi: 91 to 2001. So for the entire nineties, almost like I graduated high 

[00:25:39] Jane: Heidi and I went to a rave together in brooklyn. 

[00:25:42] Heidi: huh? 

[00:25:43] Etienne: what did you

[00:25:43] Jane: Remember when we went to that rave in Brooklyn with, uh, with Frankie and brendan? Yeah. 

[00:25:48] Etienne: So, wait, Heidi, does that mean when you went to that one rave in Brooklyn that you were not using any extracurricular drugs? 

[00:25:56] Heidi: Oh no, I was, uh, I was out. I was 

[00:25:58] Etienne: Oh, okay. Good. Oh good. There you go. 

[00:26:00] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah. Had been out for a long time. 

[00:26:04] Etienne: Well, I mean, like the one thing also that stands out, I mean, obviously not having smartphones, no social media, nobody could reach you. You had a answering 

[00:26:14] Heidi: God for no social media. 

[00:26:16] Etienne: people would have to call you and leave messages on your home phone. And you and I luckily had like the kind I, I upgraded. So I had the answering machine where I could call my home phone and put in my code and get my messages from anywhere. Um, but from anywhere meant somebody else's landline,

[00:26:33] Heidi: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:26:35] Etienne: Payphone.

[00:26:36] Heidi: Yes. 

[00:26:37] Etienne: my calling card. I had my like calling card that I 

[00:26:40] Heidi: Yes. Oh my gosh. Calling 

[00:26:41] Heidi: guards.

[00:26:42] Etienne: Yeah. I used those calling 

[00:26:43] Heidi: a thing? 

[00:26:44] Etienne: too. Yeah. That I had.

[00:26:46] Jane: I had to use them in England. I don't know if there's still a thing 

[00:26:48] Etienne: don't think so. I would imagine not. Why? Because what would you use it for? Where are the payphones?

[00:26:55] Jane: this is true. I mean, every once in a while I still find 

[00:26:59] Etienne: you do you find a payphone or a calling card?

[00:27:02] Jane: No, I found a payphone and I'll pick it up and be like, does this still work? Um, and I, I have found a couple that still 

[00:27:09] Etienne: And then you immediately pull out your hand sanitizer

[00:27:13] Jane: Yeah.

[00:27:16] Etienne: because even though I'm not a germaphobe, if I, after touching a freaking public phone, I immediately was like, I am just gross now. Like,

[00:27:25] Jane: Oh yeah, I still remember the payphone, what the payphone smell like in Penn Station, in New York City. 

[00:27:33] Jane: Uh, because it was a very distinct smell and it was the combination of how many people's. Morning breath, you know what I mean? Like the receiver and you're speaking into it, you're ha you know, like just all of it just triggered me so much.

[00:27:48] Jane: But I would have to use it sometimes if I had to tell, you know, I was living with my dad for my first two years of college and that was when I first started going to these raves. And so I would just tell him, I'm like, I'm okay. I just missed a train and I will see you later. You know? And I just wanted to let him know, just give him the courtesy that I was live.

[00:28:06] Jane: So I, there were a lot of payphones in my life at the time and just gross, even touching the change to make the phone call. Like, I hate to this day. I hate touching money of any kind. But that's all that there was. I didn't have a debit card, uh, or a 

[00:28:22] Etienne: I had an aTM, I used an ATM card in England for sure.

[00:28:26] Jane: I did. And I was gonna say, I think that was my first one. So 1993 is when I got my first, debit and credit card and I just remember going like, oh, this is so weird. Be like, before then I would literally go and cash a paycheck, like go to the bank and cash it, and then write down how much I was depositing and then how much cash they would give me.

[00:28:47] Jane: And then that was my spending money for whatever, for gas, for going out. And I was grateful in the nineties though, and maybe it's still like this and I would be interested in folks who are younger who might be listening to this, like leave us some comments. And then, uh, the Spotify comment section, do you carry cash on you, do you have to do any of this?

[00:29:10] Jane: But, um, yeah, I totally 

[00:29:13] Heidi: carry cash? Do you guys carry 

[00:29:15] Etienne: No, only because

[00:29:16] Heidi: I, find, 

[00:29:17] Jane: so rare. 

[00:29:19] Heidi: I find I use cash a lot. I don't know. Huh? 

[00:29:22] Etienne: lot. 

[00:29:23] Heidi: Yeah. I'll just use cash.

[00:29:26] Jane: There's so many places that are cashless 

[00:29:28] Heidi: Well, yeah, yeah. 

[00:29:29] Heidi: There

[00:29:29] Jane: I have emergency cash in my wallet. Just in case that, you know, I've been places sometimes where power goes down and I just think, what will people do if power goes out? I've gone to places where the power went out and they're like, I'm

[00:29:42] Etienne: We can't do anything. Yeah, we can't we can't.

[00:29:45] Jane: we can't 

[00:29:45] Heidi: Oh yeah. The, the bar I went to the other day, all their systems were down, so all they were doing was taking cash. So 

[00:29:53] Etienne: You're like, Heidi's like ing. I mean, do people start ven mowing you and saying, can I have some of your cash? Like.

[00:30:02] Jane: I heard the other day that there are people who are panhandling in other countries now where they're completely cashless. China is actually, 

[00:30:11] Jane: I heard this, 

[00:30:12] Heidi: They got 

[00:30:12] Jane: on a podcast that they have. Yeah, they have QR codes that you can, um, there's zero cash in China. And I just thought that is insane.

[00:30:23] Etienne: Holy cow. 

[00:30:24] Jane: But, you know, 'cause here, I there are people obviously who still heavily rely on cash, but like, that was our lives. Like remember, if I went to the club and this happened to me before, like when I was at a club or at a rave, and I would, you'd have to have the stuff in your pockets. There was no phone saving you from stuff. Like, you had to have your key, you had to know where your key was, your license 

[00:30:43] Etienne: Yeah. 

[00:30:43] Jane: cash, and if that fell outta your pocket when you went to the bathroom, which happened to me before, like you were out of luck. It's like, when was the last time? You found money on the street because remember, like you, like 

[00:30:55] Heidi: Oh, it's, yeah, it used to happen all the time. Yeah. Now rarely happens. Yeah, 

[00:31:01] Jane: I can't remember the last time like I, I was actually, yeah.

[00:31:04] Etienne: find or used to find cash in your pockets of your clothes that you forgot about, that you haven't worn in a while.

[00:31:09] Heidi: yeah, 

[00:31:11] Jane: Yes. 

[00:31:12] Heidi: yeah. 

[00:31:14] Heidi: Oh yeah. 

[00:31:15] Jane: That, happened to be a couple months ago because it was a coat that I hadn't worn forever and I, it, it gave me such joy and, my mom actually, this is like a sweet thing about my mom, so in the nineties I was finishing college and then starting my career and so she would come visit me in whatever. Relatively shitty apartment I was living in at the time. And I never wanted help from my parents. So she would want it just give me like some fun money. But she knew I wouldn't accept it directly 'cause she handed it to me. So when she came to visit, she would hide it with a little note with like a little xo, xo, like love mom, and she would hide it in various places in my apartment.

[00:31:55] Jane: So for months, depending upon how cleverly she had hid them, I would find things, in a d jewelry box in the pocket of a cardigan that was hanging in my closet. Like things that, so it could be. Depending upon when I was gonna use that thing, like a long time after she came to visit, I would find a little love note from her with money and I'd be like, Aw, thanks mom.

[00:32:17] Jane: Even though I didn't wanna accept this face to face, I'm grateful for it now. 'cause now I'm gonna go grab some Taco Bell or whatever, whatever, and, and go to the rave. 

[00:32:28] Etienne: Oh. 

[00:32:29] Heidi: So I was thinking about some of the things that you can no longer do. Like the nineties were like the last time you could do this, and one of them was being able to go with your loved ones to the gate and see them off and you know. Yeah, at the airport, you can't do that anymore. You can't, you know, you got the security after nine 11, so I don't know. I fond memories of going to the airports 

[00:32:56] Etienne: Well, you still had the security back then. It was just super, like you just walked through, like you walked through like you 

[00:33:02] Jane: didn't have to take your 

[00:33:03] Etienne: to take your shoes

[00:33:03] Heidi: well, and you didn't, and you didn't have to have a ticket. You didn't have to have a ticket to get to into the gate area. So now you have to have a ticket.

[00:33:14] Etienne: I mean also like at the airport, I remember I used to go on a lot of like last minute trips. So I would literally, because my boyfriend at the time was in England and he would just say. Do you wanna come today? And I'm like, okay, yeah, I'll come to England today. Or, Germany or wherever he was.

[00:33:31] Etienne: And, Cause I lived right next to the airport in Los Angeles, I would leave like an hour sometimes 30 minutes before my plane's gonna take off and get in a cab. Yeah, get in a cab. I'd be there in 10 minutes. Like, just run through security, no problem. And be on the plane. Like, it was just insane how quickly you could just be off and about in the airport back then. Not that I think we're safer now. I do not think that we're technically safer,

[00:34:00] Heidi: no. 

[00:34:01] Etienne: everybody likes the illusion of safety that it

[00:34:05] Heidi: Yes, Yes, Security 

[00:34:07] Heidi: theater. 

[00:34:09] Etienne: Security. Yes. What was the other, did you think of other things, Heidi, that we can't do anymore since the nineties?

[00:34:15] Etienne: Or that we could only do the last 

[00:34:18] Heidi: That was the main one that I was thinking of, like, wow, I don't know if that will ever be in existence again, where you can just go to the gate. And I remember as kids, I can't remember who was, oh, I think it was my aunt was flying back to Dallas. And so as kids, we went to the gate and we got to go into the cockpit and meet the pilots and get the little wings, the wing pens and yeah, it was kind of a cool thing.

[00:34:46] Heidi: But nope, if you don't have a ticket, you don't get to go do 

[00:34:50] Etienne: oh, damn. You would've met the pilot when you weren't even on that plane, is that what you're saying?

[00:34:55] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah, we're seeing our ant off

[00:34:57] Etienne: Oh wow. You went all the. 

[00:35:01] Heidi: Yeah, they walked us through the gate and to the plane, and we got to meet the pilot, put the hat on and gave us the, the wings. Yeah. We were just seeing our ants 

[00:35:12] Etienne: Yeah, for sure. That's never gonna happen again. 

[00:35:15] Heidi: No, never. Those kids are never, like, if they have a ticket and they're gonna be flying, they get to do all that. But if you're, yeah. If you're not flying, like you're not getting that kind of treatment. Oh, and then the, the smoking on the planes, remember that was the thing. 

[00:35:31] Heidi: Ugh. 

[00:35:32] Etienne: I,

[00:35:32] Etienne: mean,

[00:35:32] Heidi: I was a smoker at the time, but I can't even

[00:35:35] Etienne: I was a smoker at the time too, and I never lit up on the plane. I never did. I could go 12 hours without smoking. That's the longest of the flights I had at the time, and that's disgusting. There's no, I can't stand when I would smoke, I would only smoke in places where the wind would take the smoke away from my face or in my car where the roll down window a little bit would take the smoke away from, I wouldn't even smoke if I was sitting in traffic. I would leave the cigarette out the

[00:36:01] Heidi: Yeah. 

[00:36:02] Etienne: And I'd only take a puff if I was moving and the smoke could go out the window. So 

[00:36:07] Heidi: Remember our 

[00:36:08] Etienne: with all the freaking smoke in your 

[00:36:10] Heidi: Yeah, our parents would leave the windows up. I remember being a kid complaining like, can we just, that's really smoking there. 

[00:36:19] Etienne: If I lung cancer, 

[00:36:20] Heidi: a window? 

[00:36:21] Etienne: I wonder if it'll be from the smoke in the car as a child or from the, the 10 years that I smoked. 

[00:36:26] Heidi: Yeah. Seriously.

[00:36:29] Jane: My parents would crack the window, but then it would be freezing, and I was like, I don't know. Which is worse being really cold or having it be really smoky. Then when I started going to concerts and raves, all it took was a couple of people to smoke. You're in an enclosed space and so I always, no matter what time I came home, I had to take a shower because.

[00:36:46] Heidi: Oh yeah. 

[00:36:47] Jane: Otherwise everything, your hair, your clothes, everything smelled like smoke. Like I did have to do a strip down and I never smoked cigarettes. Like I went through a phase where I smoked 'em occasionally 'cause I thought it made me look good and feel like poetic. I remember smoking, my friend left her pack of Benson Hedges at my house.

[00:37:01] Jane: And, I went to the beach. I was in my freshman year of college, this is 91, I'm just hanging out on the beach. And I just thought, I'm gonna smoke a cigarette while I'm writing this. This is good. This is what they do. This is what the professional writers do. And I did, I felt cool in that moment.

[00:37:16] Jane: Now when I see someone smoke, it's like disgusting. But at the time we knew it was bad. We knew it was bad for us. And for some reason that made it almost a more of an act of rebellion. Just like, fuck it, you know? And you're just like doing it. And it just added to the mystique.

[00:37:33] Jane: And I do remember dating all of my boyfriends. Were smokers. They all were smokers. Then as I got older, it was a prerequisite of mine that you are not a smoker for me to date you. I'm like, I'm not signing up for that lung cancer situation down the line. Um, um, and also 'cause it was just gross.

[00:37:56] Jane: Like your breath is gross. Like, you know, kissing is gross. 

[00:37:59] Heidi: I had so many boyfriends who were non-smokers that dated me, like my ex. He was a non-smoker when he met me and we got married, I was a smoker. Yeah, it's crazy 

[00:38:11] Etienne: What year what year did you stop smoking? Heidi. 

[00:38:13] Heidi: Oh, 99.

[00:38:14] Etienne: Okay. 

[00:38:15] Heidi: Yeah. Oh, another thing I thought about is how we were very. I don't know, anti-establishment. And you know, we were always like, oh, those guys sold out 

[00:38:29] Etienne: Yes, that was a 

[00:38:30] Heidi: you know, they're not cool anymore. And now it's like everybody sells out, 

[00:38:34] Etienne: everybody. It's like, everybody, when can I sell out? 

[00:38:37] Heidi: Yeah. When, when can I sell out? When I, can I, when can I 

[00:38:42] Jane: Are 

[00:38:42] Heidi: originality? Yeah. When can I trade my originality for payment? Where back in the day it was like, 

[00:38:49] Etienne: It wasn't cool. It wasn't cool to sell, to sell your soul. That was considered like selling your soul, selling your art. If we're making too much money on our art, we're not artists anymore. Or buying clothes at the thrift store, that was a huge thing in the early nineties for sure. Uh, I would go to, I mean, in 

[00:39:07] Heidi: a comeback. 

[00:39:07] Etienne: think about that. Like how great the clothes were in Los Angeles and the thrift stores, you know? I think actually thinking with certain things that might be changing in our world today. Not making, being specific, but maybe this will bring a resurgence of us going to the thrift store and buying other people's clothes that they don't want and making it our own, you know, like

[00:39:29] Heidi: Yeah. Thrifting is really big right now with the new generations. So, I don't know. I think I, there's probably is gonna be a backlash. It's probably already started against the influencer culture and the fakeness and the over consumption. 

[00:39:46] Etienne: Yeah. Over 

[00:39:46] Heidi: I think people are getting tired of it.

[00:39:48] Etienne: Yeah. Like I don't understand how anybody can watch a video of somebody that they like, that they look up to, like those influencers and go, oh yeah, she uses that face cream. No, she doesn't. Are you outta your minds? Like,

[00:40:02] Heidi: it's, 

[00:40:02] Heidi: yeah, it's. 

[00:40:03] Etienne: I mean, the things that people actually use that you look up to, you're never gonna know what those are. They're not gonna tell anybody. Not really.

[00:40:12] Heidi: Well, and then they're faking their lifestyle in these videos as well. You know, so what they're portraying is not their real life, what they're actually doing. It's all for show. Yeah.

[00:40:26] Etienne: Yeah. I wanna go back to the world of we're not trying to buy new things every day. We're not trying to get a new car every year. Not that I do that at all. I am not the person who needs the latest phone. I wanna use my phone till it dies. You know, like, literally, why, why do I need a new phone if I'm still getting updates?

[00:40:44] Etienne: If I still, you know, like it's, it works just fine. Do I really wanna spend a thousand dollars or, I know I get discounts through my carrier, but it's still like, these are

[00:40:56] Etienne: expensive phones. We're just throwing away phones. Every year perfectly good phones that still work. I know, Jane, you, you had the same phone forever, like you had the same phone Longer than anybody that I've known 

[00:41:10] Jane: Yeah. And I think, well, a lot of that comes from going through hard economic times as a kid and just having this thing of like, we don't do that. And, we also did, like my grandmother, I spent a lot of time with my grandparents and they grew up during the depression. They came of age during the depression, and so they instilled that in me and she would take us to thrift stores and I think that my daughter and her friends, they go to thrift stores.

[00:41:34] Jane: I do have hope that, you know, some of Gen Z are still, they are obsessed with the influencer culture and that, but some of them are also very much rejecting the fast fashion. Culture and that type of stuff. And maybe we're now of the age where we see the nineties ethos, which some of it was a resurgence of the sixties ethos, maybe that's coming back.

[00:41:54] Jane: Um, because I had a flashback the other day of my grunge era because. We were going through our closets, and Brendan, my husband, was getting rid of some of his flannel shirts, and when my dad did the same thing, I was like, I will take those. And then just to, because like for a while there, my uniform was either I looked like a straight up hippie with crazy flowy skirts or I was wearing jeans that were entirely too big for me.

[00:42:23] Jane: A t-shirt that was entirely too big for me, that was probably in a lot of holes in places and a flannel I wear as a unbuttoned, as a cardigan. And they all belonged to my dad. I never went out and bought a flannel shirt and they were just like, rejects from my dad's closet. But I was like, Etienne Veder says, I could wear this.

[00:42:41] Jane: This is fine. Those were our influencers, right? We're just like people that we thought were we might have been co-opting their style, but it was like a homage of like, I respect you. And, the authenticity was kind of like the, in the music at that time was a real currency.

[00:42:56] Jane: Like there was some garbage pop music that came out in the nineties on the radio, but the, but there was a very real 

[00:43:03] Heidi: Boy 

[00:43:04] Jane: to that. Well, people will say, oh, do you remember the song? And they'll play it. I'm like, I have no recollection of that song. And I think it was because college radio that show on MTV 120 minutes would, you know, would have the alternative videos.

[00:43:18] Jane: But a lot of it for me came out of college radio. And then you had the extreme then authenticity of bands like Fugazi, right? Who wouldn't even sell any kind of merchandise at their concerts. And then bands like Pearl Jam, and some other stuff coming outta Seattle at the time in Sound Garden stuff, it was very common for them at their shows to talk about just randomly riffing, in between songs about like, oh, we love Fugazi.

[00:43:44] Jane: They would like Etienne, Vetter would write Fugazi on his arm and marker but I loved Fugazi. I went to see them many times. In fact, there was one time they played a show in Athens, Georgia, and it was advertised when I say advertised like paper flyer, at the vegetarian restaurant and around the college campus.

[00:44:00] Jane: And you had to have a friend who was already in college who would tell you about it. 'cause I was in high school at the time and they were like, Fugazi, they're playing Saturday. All ages show. Okay. So the flyer said all ages. So I was 16. I get in line and I get there and they're like, you have to be 18. And at the time I 

[00:44:16] Etienne: Did you have your fired? 

[00:44:19] Jane: And I said this was like, flagged as an all ages show. I drove an hour to be here and Ian Mackay was the lead singer of Fugazi. And he was also a minor threat and he heard the kerfuffle. 'cause I was getting loud, I don't know.

[00:44:35] Jane: I was a little angsty at the time. I was like, I drove a fucking hour to be here. I'm gonna see you, I had my doc Martens on. I was ready to go, you know? And I was like, I need a mosh pit. Like, I'm so angry you can't tell me. Like I 

[00:44:46] Etienne: I need. 

[00:44:46] Jane: be here. Exactly. It's just like, I need to let the demons out. And so Ian McKay said, we're not playing unless you let her in. It was one of the highlights of my life. I was just like, yeah, Kai said he's not, so they let me in and I was like, put exes on my hands. I'm not doing, I'm not, I wasn't even 18. So anyway, they played an amazing show and yeah, it was my first mosh pit and a lot of mosh pits. We had some avenues for controlled violence, some avenues for controlled angst. I think music was a huge part of where our generation channeled all kinds of, uh, all kinds

[00:45:31] Heidi: Our trauma.

[00:45:33] Jane: Yeah, 

[00:45:34] Heidi: We're working out our trauma

[00:45:35] Etienne: We were angry about a lot of things, which I understand. I mean, I get why people who are young today would be super angry. I would be super angry if I were young today as well. I was super angry back then when I was young. in the nineties. Like, I loved, I mean, my favorite, I mean, nine Inch Nails was one of my favorite 

[00:45:54] Heidi: Oh my God. 

[00:45:54] Jane: my God, 

[00:45:55] Etienne: I just was like, angry smoke and listen to, and I'm super cool. 

[00:46:03] Heidi: yes. 

[00:46:05] Etienne: Oh my God. I was never in the mosh pit though because I was always, again, Tomas. 'cause there was always mosh pits and he would be like, you are not, nope. you can get back further. Get back further. This is not okay.

[00:46:18] Etienne: You can't be, he was so protective of me, like getting anywhere near the mosh pit. He's like, even if you're just slightly closed, you could get an elbow right in the face. And I'm like, okay, okay. Where can we stand? It's like,

[00:46:31] Jane: That definitely happened to me too 'cause I'm very short 

[00:46:33] Etienne: wow. You were like, definitely elbow height. Jesus.

[00:46:36] Jane: So what I would do is I would just kind of, I would go in just for a little bit and stay low. 'cause then I'd be below the elbows and I would just be like, ugh. Just like shoving people. Just like, I just went in there and did some shoving and then I would look for my out, and then I would get out and get out at the, at the outskirts just enough to get it out. And then sometimes I'd make my way around. And I did stage dive a couple of times, but then I got groped once, so I was like, all right, i'm not gonna do that 

[00:47:04] Etienne: You mean when somebody caught 

[00:47:05] Jane: was 

[00:47:05] Etienne: and groped you?

[00:47:07] Jane: Well, you? Know, 'cause you're kind of crowd surfing. It felt awesome at first until somebody was just like squeezing my boobs. Not an accident. It's not an accident. And I'll never know who did it. But I was just like, oh my God. I'm like, this is a bad idea. So I never did it again. But I did not then say, let's boycott all concerts because my boobs got squeezed. I just said, okay. That was rude. And I went on with life. And I'm not trying to minimize anybody's experience out there with that kind of thing. It wasn't right. But I didn't leave the concert because it was just, there were things that were more important than that one little moment of, , micro violation. So I stayed, it was at a Jesus lizard show at CBGBs in New York City. If you're out there and you grab my boobs back in, 1991, fuck you. But, uh.

[00:47:57] Etienne: I, I really, really hope whoever,

[00:47:59] Heidi: That's the same pervert.

[00:48:00] Etienne: you 

[00:48:01] Heidi: Yeah. Hopefully you you're having the day you deserve,

[00:48:04] Jane: Yeah. Yes. 

[00:48:05] Heidi: because I'm sure someone who does that, they're probably not a good now either. 

[00:48:09] Etienne: Oh God, no. No. I can't. I cannot imagine doing that, but yeah, that shit happened. Yeah. 

[00:48:17] Heidi: Oh 

[00:48:17] Etienne: I got grabbed, oh, it was just bad. So this guy's dead, so I can talk about him too. Temas is, boss. I love it that I can talk about people who are dead and they can't do anything about it. So Temas is the owner of the company for Avalon his name was Brian. And, he was older and he dated porn stars. Ugh. And so he obviously did not have a high opinion of women in general because the first time I ever heard the term as to mouth was from him. And, yeah. I'm like, what is that? And I'm, I totally asked him. I'm like, what is that? And he told me, I was like, oh, 

[00:48:55] Heidi: Yeah. Can you explain that? Because I don't even know. 

[00:48:58] Jane: Okay. I think, can I tell you what I, I think I know what it is, but i, is it 

[00:49:03] Etienne: you dunno. Yeah. Uh, Dick is in the ass and then it goes in her mouth. Mm-hmm. That's Ask him Mouse. 

[00:49:11] Heidi: What, 

[00:49:12] Etienne: Yeah. And I did not know what that was before. I mean, so I learned way back in the nineties. So what that is way before there was, uh, 

[00:49:19] Heidi: like guys want that to happen. 

[00:49:22] Etienne: Uh, I mean, 

[00:49:23] Heidi: intentionally like, let me shove this in your butt and 

[00:49:26] Etienne: well, I think that's what happens in porn. I mean, that's what happens in porn, but you have a clean ass. So you think about it, these are porn stars.

[00:49:35] Etienne: If they're being filmed, they've already enid themselves to death. Their asses are the cleanest ass you're ever gonna find. Right?

[00:49:43] Etienne: So yes, he had girlfriends who were porn stars, so he would brag.

[00:49:48] Etienne: Yeah, I can ask them out there. And I'm like, I mean, maybe there are disgusting men out there that want to. Have anal sex with a woman who maybe doesn't use an enema before. Because I would, if I'm having anal sex, I would definitely use plenty of enemas before. But even still, I'm not putting that in my mouth after, I'm sorry. You're gonna go wash your dick off before it goes anywhere else after that. Uh, so yeah. But this is the kind of man he was. So he would brag about it and I heard him bragging about it. And he wasn't talking to me when he, when I heard the term. So that's why I was like, Tomas, what is that? And told me, and I'm like, oh my God, what is with this man?

[00:50:28] Etienne: And I, every time I'd see him after that, I would think about him just offhandedly bragging about this comment. And it was at the nine Inch Nail Show in San Diego, the venue was in the student union, so it was a completely flat area where it was standing room only. So it was really hard to see the stage unless you were close to the action, which is where the mosh pit was, so that I was not allowed to go up there. As we know, Tomas would not let that happen. So I was allowed to go on the soundboard elevated area. So there was an elevated soundboard area and I got to stand behind where all the guys are sitting doing their stuff. And I could see perfectly and it was great. And all of a sudden I'm standing there, I remember I was wearing these leather pants of mine and all of a sudden I feel this hand grab my full pussy, like in between my legs and grab hard and then let go. And I turn around You the fuck? I'm standing at the soundboard who's grabbing me. You know, I thought it was just some like concert goer who decided I'm just gonna grab this girl's pussy. And I'm like, I turned around and it's Tam's boss who just grabbed me and he smiled at me. And then he. Or to like, like walk, you know, to get a little closer than I was to behind the soundboard guys.

[00:51:48] Etienne: And I was like, I, I told Tomas about it. And, he was so angry, but at the same time he was impotent because he was like, this is my boss.

[00:51:58] Etienne: If I say something to him and I get fired, I have no job and he's gonna blackball me in the music industry and I will then have no way to then have a career. My career's over.

[00:52:09] Etienne: Like, I know the, I know now what was going through his head at the time. I was angry. And I was like, you better fucking say something to him. This is not okay. Like, this better not happen again, or I'm gonna fucking punch him in a goddamn face. So he was like, okay, well I'll try to make sure it doesn't happen again.

[00:52:26] Etienne: And I'm like, okay. And that was the only thing that ever happened between me and his boss as far as inappropriate, extremely inappropriate. But, but yeah, he did not say anything to him as far as I know about, you know, don't. I can't believe you did that. Like, go apologize to my girlfriend. He didn't say that because he did not apologize to me, but he did never grab me again.

[00:52:47] Etienne: So, yeah, things like that happened back in the day. I mean, I'm sure things like that happened today too, but probably not as often as they did back then. So you just learned like, I'm not traumatized from it. It's not something I think about, but when I did hear that he died, I was kind of like, ah, you're dead. Sorry. Like, good for you. Like you weren't even that old. So, ha.

[00:53:11] Heidi: Yeah, 

[00:53:12] Etienne: obviously like, you know, if there's a heaven and a hell, you're not going to the good place. Uh,

[00:53:17] Heidi: no. 

[00:53:18] Etienne: but yeah, that happens. But let's, 

[00:53:23] Heidi: Yeah. What is going through their minds? Like they just think, oh, I can do 

[00:53:28] Etienne: yeah. I really would like to know, like, yeah, like how, like did he think. I mean, what, what would be the best thing that was gonna happen in that situation? He was gonna grab my pussy and I was gonna be like, oh, Brian, I've been waiting forever for you to grab, to let me know you're interested. Let's go off in the back and have sex. Like, did he really think that was gonna happen?

[00:53:51] Heidi: No, it was a power thing. He was like, I can do this right now 

[00:53:55] Etienne: get away with it. And nobody's gonna do anything to me. Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:57] Heidi: Yep. 

[00:53:58] Etienne: It was MCA, that was the company he went to work for MCA, which ended up being a part of 

[00:54:03] Jane: It's. 

[00:54:03] Etienne: Yeah. Yeah. he he actually, I think he worked a lot harder to get out of that job after that because of that happening. That was probably, yeah. That was at the end of his time there with 

[00:54:15] Heidi: Yeah. 'cause he wasn't even getting paid that 

[00:54:17] Etienne: No, he was not getting paid Well, he was getting paid so poorly. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So he went from that to getting paid like, $60,000 a year back in 1994. Imagine having a $60,000 a year in 94. He thought he was like rolling in it. I, I think I, 

[00:54:32] Heidi: That's like six figures 

[00:54:33] Etienne: I am pretty sure that he was bringing home $6,000 a month, honestly, and 'cause of the tax difference between today, you know,

[00:54:40] Heidi: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:42] Etienne: And we were just, he was, yeah, he got a BMW, he went from a shitty old, Audi to A BMW. And, he wouldn't let me smoke in it. And I was like, okay. He smoked too, but he was like, nobody's allowed to smoke in the car. And I'm like, okay. I agree with that. And then I was like, one day you're gonna smoke in this car. I know it. And he did. He did. Uh, so sad. It was after our breakup, I heard he was smoking in his car and I'm like, oh, that poor car. It's no longer smoke free.

[00:55:18] Jane: Ah, the nineties, the arrows of, of smoking everywhere. 

[00:55:22] Heidi: Oh my God, yes. smoking and non-smoking sections, which did not matter.

[00:55:28] Jane: it didn't matter.

[00:55:29] Etienne: ew. 

[00:55:30] Jane: But, but music was everything. Authenticity was everything. And I am super, super grateful that I got to travel and go to school and fall in love in a world without the 

[00:55:42] Etienne: Yes. Yes. 

[00:55:44] Heidi: For real. 

[00:55:45] Jane: am so, so 

[00:55:47] Etienne: Oh my God, yes. 

[00:55:48] Heidi: Because we, yeah, there were so many things. We got up to that. Yeah. Thank God there's no photographic evidence or an internet history that is forever there. Like we have none of that.

[00:56:02] Jane: you could rip up a photo. I had a photo of me with a three foot bong that was filled up and, I pulled on it and then I put my hand over the top of it. 'cause then I needed to take a breath before I could clear a three foot bong.

[00:56:15] Jane: And then, There's a picture of me and just this big stripey shirt. 'cause it was one of my rave shirts and this big bong and I'm just visibly high, you know? And just this goofy smile. And it was a funny picture of me. I was using it, I guess, as a bookmark in a book that I was reading.

[00:56:31] Jane: Fast forward to a couple years later and I'm teaching and I had a library of books that I took to the classroom. 'cause I would let kids bar them routinely. I mean, like I was joking earlier in this conversation about all these fucking kids, like my first year of teaching, I taught junior high school and fuck that age.

[00:56:47] Jane: It's just terrible. But, but high school, like high school though, , I loved it and I did it for a long time and I really, I miss it. It was awesome. So I would lend kids books. So this kid, he is like, can I borrow the, it was the full collection of Edgar Allen Poe. And he was just like, can I borrow this?

[00:57:04] Jane: And I was like, of course. And then he picks it up and as he stemming through it, like this photograph. I hadn't seen in like two decades, falls outta the book and just floats across the floor. I immediately recognized what it, like no one else saw it. I immediately recognized this artifact from the nineties and just stomped on it with my foot and zinged it under my desk for later.

[00:57:25] Jane: And he was just like, what was that? And I was just like, yeah, it was an old bookmark I used to have. It's like, oh, just , I'll deal with it later. And I was like, oh my God, I just almost outed my former nineties stoners days. So all of these kids who would've definitely been like, what? But see, but there's no digital record of that that I can't erase. I literally took the picture and hid it and then I folded that shit in half later and took it home where it belongs. , And nobody needs to see it. It was not shared with anybody that it didn't need to be shared with. But I thank you ladies for sharing your nineties stories. Today with us. 

[00:58:04] Etienne: Oh, thank you, jane. Thank 

[00:58:06] Heidi: was a great to go down memory 

[00:58:08] Etienne: Oh, Heidi needs to go back to the nineties and do it not in the Air force. 

[00:58:13] Heidi: Yes, I know. I feel like I missed out. Hmm. Oh, 

[00:58:17] Jane: we'll have a nineties girls weekend maybe where we can relive some things. Let's just pretend no 

[00:58:22] Jane: one needs to know.

[00:58:22] Heidi: Yeah. 

[00:58:23] Heidi: Yeah. 

[00:58:24] Heidi: That's our show you've been listening to, the Women are Plotting. If you have a story you'd like to share or have any comments, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at info at the women are plotting.com and of course you can find us on all the socials. Thanks, and until next time, be safe and be excellent to each other.