Out-of-Body Journeys, Past Lives, And The Science-Adjacent Search For Meaning

What if consciousness can wander—during sleep, during sex, or in the quiet of a deep meditation—and return with a story that won’t fit inside ordinary life? We open that door with firsthand accounts of floating above a childhood bedroom, being “seen” across continents while asleep elsewhere, and a night vision of a house fire that matched the morning’s grim news. The conversation moves from goosebumps to ground rules: questioning the difference between astral projection and remote viewing, what NDEs share with OBEs, and why so many people report lasting shifts toward empathy and meaning after stepping beyond the body.

We lean into practice, not dogma. From pre-dawn meditations tuned for theta states to body scanning that eases awareness into “nothingness,” we share the simple techniques that made the biggest difference. Group coherence becomes its own teacher: rooms feel different after a hundred quiet minds settle there, and that collective energy can be measured in subtle ways. We also explore ecstatic states that medicine might label dissociation, asking whether language obscures the lived reality when bliss, presence, and clarity expand far past the edges of skin.

Past lives enter with surprising specificity. One regression delivers a nameable face from Napoleonic-era France—later found in an actual portrait—and another unpacks patterns that echo into this lifetime: the compulsion to write, the fear of thirst, the pull to champion stories erased by history. Children add their own puzzle pieces, recognizing an old song at first note, recalling bridges and “last time,” and describing indoor “fog” that feels like company rather than fear. Whether you call it God, source, spirit, or simply the energy we share, the takeaway is practical: kindness multiplies, community matters, and ten minutes of daily meditation can change everything.

Press play to explore astral projection, near-death parallels, regressions, and the everyday practices that bring awe within reach. If a story sparks your own, we want to hear it—subscribe, share with a friend who loves a good mystery, and leave a review with your biggest question or experience.

Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com, and find us on all the socials. Be safe and be excellent to each other.

Chapters

• 0:00 Fun Fact About Salvador Dali
• 1:51 Belief in Psychic Stats And Florida Mediums
• 3:44 How Many Have Had Out-of-Body Experiences?
• 6:10 A Childhood OBE That Two People Saw
• 10:39 Psychic Dream Or Remote Viewing?
• 11:46 Being Seen Miles Away While “Traveling”
• 16:22 Ecstatic States: OBE vs Dissociation
• 20:58 Meditation, Nothingness, and Pineal Practice
• 24:39 Past Lives And Verifiable Portraits
• 27:02 Past Lives Bleeding Into Today's Life
• 33:29 Children’s Memories And Odd Knowing
• 42:06 Proof Of Heaven And A Shifting Worldview
• 43:39 Energy, Oneness, And Quantum Framing
• 46:02 The Energy of Churches and Cathedrals
• 51:35 What About Source?
• 52:49 Everything in Nature Possesses Energy
• 53:35 We Want Community

Transcript

[00:00:00] Etienne: Welcome listeners. This is The Women Are Plotting. I'm Etienne Rose Olivier and I'm here with my friends and co-hosts, Heidi Willis and Jane Gari.

[00:00:15] Etienne: Today's episode we'll be talking about metaphysical, psychic, and out of body experiences. And my fun fact for today is regarding Salvador Dali. So he did a type of out of body induction on himself just to get odd visions that inspired his paintings. And he actually, I believe he coined the phrase, but I could be wrong here, called the paranoia Critical method to, get his visions that inspired all of his really surrealistic paintings.

[00:00:50] Etienne: And I really love Salvador Dali. So I was, looking for a long time today to try to find my fun fact. And I found something on Salvador Dali. I was like, yes. 'Cause his paintings, when I look at them, I just. I mean, all you can think about is this does not feel like it's of this world. So, Heidi, what is your fun and or interesting fact for the day?

[00:01:13] Heidi: As I quickly try to find a new one because I thought we were doing cryptids. Mm-hmm.

[00:01:19] Etienne: You thought we were doing what?

[00:01:22] Heidi: I thought we were doing the cryptid episode. Like weird aliens, cryptids,

[00:01:30] Etienne: Oh, I didn't

[00:01:31] Heidi: but we're doing psychic and metaphysical out of body experience.

[00:01:36] Etienne: and I actually put it in the subject line too. Strangely enough.

[00:01:39] Heidi: I know. I know. So. I, yeah.

[00:01:43] Jane: In your defense, we were talking about that

[00:01:46] Etienne: We were talking about a lot. 

[00:01:47] Jane: about your friend 

[00:01:48] Heidi: a really, well, I'll have to save the Bigfoot one for later.

[00:01:51] Heidi: Anyway. according to the 2017 Pew Research Center study, 41% of adults in the US believe in psychics, which

[00:02:04] Etienne: Hmm.

[00:02:05] Heidi: I don't know, it needs to be a little higher. 'Cause I've had some psychic experiences. Like I totally believe in the phenomenon, but I don't know. Yeah. Only 41%.

[00:02:18] Etienne: Wait,

[00:02:18] Heidi: Oh. And Florida, Florida has the largest number of working mediums of any US state.

[00:02:25] Jane: Of course they do. That does not surprise me at all because anytime you hear something weird happen, it happened in Florida, like, you know

[00:02:37] Etienne: Oh

[00:02:37] Jane: like throwing an alligator into like a Wendy's drive through and just weird stuff like that and that that's a real thing.

[00:02:44] Etienne: Oh, no. 

[00:02:45] Heidi: It's a field that can definitely be taken advantage of by charlatans and fakes and frauds. But, there's people that really develop their skills they know what they're doing and can sometimes predict the future and sometimes reach out to loved ones, dead loved ones on the other side and give messages.

[00:03:08] Heidi: So it's a very mysterious area that Yeah, you can't prove it, disprove it. And it's just one of those things that unless you have an experience with it, yeah, you probably would have a hard time believing in it. So anyway. Jane, what is your fun?

[00:03:29] Jane: I would up your stats 'cause I definitely believe that some people have legit skills and

[00:03:33] Jane: so, and I don't live in Florida and I still think it's real. I think that, focused my fun fact on out a body experiences 'cause that was one of the things we said we

[00:03:43] Heidi: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:44] Jane: And I have had out of body experiences. I know that you have too, Heidi. So I was like, how many people say that they've had that? Is this common? Sign alert.com talked about this study of people who had out-of-body experiences and 55% of those who experienced them report that they were just completely different afterwards.

[00:04:06] Jane: It just profoundly changed them as a person.

[00:04:09] Heidi: Hmm.

[00:04:09] Jane: And then 40% of people who experienced that out-of-body phenomenon said that it was the greatest thing that ever happened to them. And they said it made them more aware of other people's needs and they were able to be more patient

[00:04:25] Jane: and, have empathy and that because they were feeling disembodied, they just felt that they no longer had to be concerned with the physical realm for their identity.

[00:04:40] Jane: Like they were able to accept the fact, right, that they were a spiritual being and it was more of like dissolution of the ego

[00:04:49] Heidi: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:50] Jane: And it strengthened their relationships with other people. I don't know. I found that really fascinating.

[00:04:54] Heidi: Yeah, it's, it sounds like it's very similar to near death experiences. If you've ever seen people talk about those, it changes their lives and they come back and they're like, oh yeah, this is how it is, and we don't have to worry about the crap, the 3D world crap, and yeah. 

[00:05:12] Jane: that's entirely right. I think as the people who, a lot of people, those two go hand in hand, right? Because they

[00:05:17] Jane: had the outta body experience because they were brain dead on an operating table, right?

[00:05:23] Jane: Or for all intents and purposes, clinically dead. And then they're watching themselves from above.

[00:05:27] Jane: And so they're counting that as an outof body experience.

[00:05:30] Jane: Where to me, I'm like, that to me is a near death experience. And I guess, yes, you are literally then out of your body, but to me, I think when I think out of body, I, I'm thinking astral projection,

[00:05:41] Jane: right? And I'm thinking that you're not on an operating table. You're just in an altered state of consciousness that allows your an inner spirit, your soul, whatever you wanna call it. I don't know what it, that part of us that is not tethered to the meat puppet, right? Like, goes on a little trip, you know, and, uh, it's still attached to the body because you're still living, but you're just walking around, and the first time it happened to me. That I remember it happening.

[00:06:10] Jane: I was in second grade and I thought I was having a dream, a very boring dream, that I was just walking around my house. And, I'm second grade, so I'm seven years old, so I'm just walking around my house and I walk down the hallway to where my sister's sleeping and I go to open the door, but my hand goes through the door and I was like, oh, I could just, this is cool. I'm just gonna walk through the door, you know? And so at this time when I was little, I was having lucid dreams all the time, but I just didn't know that there was a name for it. So I was like, oh, this is a cool dream.

[00:06:43] Jane: This is one where I can just like, maybe I could fly, maybe I could do. So I was like, oh, I can actually lift off the ground. This is really cool and I'm just gonna float through the door. And my sister was awake and, in what I thought was a dream, not a dream. And I'm just floating in a room and I'm waving at her.

[00:06:59] Jane: I'm like, Hey, you know, she just like flipped out. Because she was sitting up and she was having her stuffed animals play with each other because I guess she hadn't fallen asleep yet, and I'm having a dream and I'm in a room, but it's really me,

[00:07:11] Heidi: Really happening. Yeah,

[00:07:12] Jane: really happening.

[00:07:13] Jane: And she just looks at me and she said, you're floating. And she just started screaming her head off. And as she's screaming. All I feel is like this crazy sense of suction. And just then I hear like, like just like wind, wind, wind, wind. And then I'm just, then I'm in my bed sitting up hearing her scream

[00:07:38] Etienne: The same, oh gosh.

[00:07:40] Jane: And I was like, whoa, this is really weird. You know? And I, I'm seven years old, I have

[00:07:45] Jane: like 

[00:07:46] Heidi: yeah, yeah. No concept. Yeah. 

[00:07:49] Jane: and I was like, she's, maybe she had a weird dream too . So I go down the hall to comfort her. In my body now, and I open the door and I was just like, it's okay.

[00:07:58] Jane: She was like, go away. You're a ghost. She was like, you're a ghost. She just kept screaming at me. You're a ghost. You're a ghost. And, 'cause if I'm seven, she's five. We're two and a half years apart.

[00:08:07] Jane: She would not play with me for days. I remember this because she was terrified of me. So , we go to eat breakfast, the next day she was just like, go away your ghost. And my mom is just like, what's going on? Gotta sleep. There's no discussion. It's

[00:08:20] Jane: whatever. Gen X parents, you know, they're just like

[00:08:24] Jane: our, our parents were just exactly, I have to work tomorrow.

[00:08:27] Jane: Shut the fuck

[00:08:27] Heidi: Yeah, yeah. I don't care what's going on in your life. 

[00:08:31] Jane: No, I mean, 

[00:08:32] Heidi: bleeding? Are you near death? No, I don't wanna hear about it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:37] Jane: That's exactly what happened.

[00:08:38] Jane: So I just said, okay, so we go to sleep. We totally disregard what happens until breakfast. She sees me and immediately starts freaking out again and just screaming. She's a ghost. She's a ghost. And my mom was like, what are you talking about? And so I say to my mom, the funniest thing happened last night.

[00:08:53] Jane: And so I explained the whole thing to her. My mom is just sitting there with her mouth wide open. Like, what? And it was not the first time that my sister and I did something weird like this. 'cause we used to have conversations without talking, but we didn't know that we weren't. Not talking. And so my mom was just like, what else are my children going to do that's gonna freak me out?

[00:09:14] Jane: You know? And she never addressed it. All she said was, wow. And then, and I ate breakfast. My sister didn't, 'cause she was still terrified of me. And then, uh, we went to school. That's,

[00:09:28] Heidi: Oh my God. 

[00:09:29] Jane: and it, happened periodically. And then, at other times I never freaked my sister out again because if I had another dream when I was doing that

[00:09:37] Etienne: You just wouldn't go to her room.

[00:09:38] Jane: I wouldn't go to her room.

[00:09:39] Jane: I would just fly around the house, maybe go outside in my backyard. I would go over the river by my house and then I would just go back to bed.

[00:09:49] Jane: I didn't know what was happening, but it didn't happen a lot. But when it happened I was like, oh, this is that thing.

[00:09:55] Jane: Let's not freak out my sister again.

[00:09:57] Jane: And then in seventh grade I read a book by Lois. It's either Lois or Louis, I can't remember if it's a male or a female author, but I think Louis Duncan called Stranger with my face.

[00:10:08] Jane: And it was about twins. And of course one of them was evil 'cause it was written in the seventies and that's what it was, that trope. And one of them could astral project and it knocked the good twin out of her body and she was like taking over her life. And

[00:10:21] Jane: yeah, but the whole description of astral projection and then naming it, I was like, oh my God,

[00:10:28] Jane: that s what happened. And then

[00:10:30] Jane: I was terrified of what had happened to me.

[00:10:33] Jane: And then it didn't happen to me again for a very long time, but, yeah. But I know that Heidi, that you've had,

[00:10:39] Heidi: Yeah. I not remember mine. People have seen me, so that's how I know it's happened. I think there was one time where it happened, I woke up from, I thought it was a dream. It was a house burning down, people screaming from inside, and I was stuck. I couldn't do anything. I don't, I don't know, I think this might have been like a psychic or, I don't know.

[00:11:00] Heidi: It felt like an out, I don't know. I woke up from it, just terrified, sweating, looked at the time, and I was telling a friend about it the next day about this dream, and she's like, oh, so-and-so's house burned down last night. So we rode our bikes over there, and it was the same house that I saw.

[00:11:20] Etienne: Oh gosh.

[00:11:21] Heidi: And like, same thing, like people were screaming, they couldn't get 'em out in time.

[00:11:25] Heidi: Um,

[00:11:26] Etienne: did they die? Really? Everybody

[00:11:27] Heidi: yeah, yeah. Yep. I think it was just two people may have died or one person, I don't know. But they heard the firefighters could hear screaming, could hear people crying out for help, but the house was engulfed,

[00:11:39] Etienne: oh my God.

[00:11:41] Heidi: So, I'm not quite sure if that was out of body or if I psychically saw it.

[00:11:46] Heidi: I don't know. But the out of body ones, I don't remember 'em. And I would, I'm kind of terrified of doing it consciously, but my ex-husband, the first husband, when I was deployed to Ecuador, saw me walk into our bedroom in New Mexico and saw me walk out like fully awake.

[00:12:07] Heidi: He was so freaked out. He thought I was dead. He thought I had died and that was a ghost. So heard that. And then, 

[00:12:14] Etienne: you were, in Ecuador when this

[00:12:16] Heidi: yeah, I was physically in

[00:12:17] Etienne: He was in 

[00:12:18] Heidi: and he was in New

[00:12:19] Etienne: Okay. I just wanna point that out. Your country's apart.

[00:12:22] Heidi: Yeah. Country's apart.

[00:12:24] Heidi: And he saw me walk in and yeah. So. I don't remember that incident. I was told about it and then the second time was just a few years ago, a friend of mine and I, just learned reiki and I was wanting to give her reiki and she was like, absolutely not.

[00:12:42] Etienne: What?

[00:12:42] Heidi: She was a little scared. Well, she was Catholic and was a little scared about it. I don't know. Wanted to do more research, right. So apparently she woke up one day, and saw me hovering. She, so she's in Virginia and I was in Iowa at the time. Yeah, I was in Iowa or maybe I was LA I don't know. I was very far away from her though for sure.

[00:13:06] Heidi: Apparently she woke up. She felt there was energy entering her body and she saw me hovering over her and giving her reiki. And she said, Heidi, I told you no Reiki. And apparently I pouted and like Left the room like, oh, oh shucks, okay. And left the room. And yeah, she told me about that and I have no memory of it, but she was fully awake and she was like, no.

[00:13:32] Heidi: I said, no Reiki. So apparently I was like trying to force Reiki on her.

[00:13:39] Jane: Or your traveling soul was, it was just something that you're like, she really, she deserves it. I'm just gonna give it to her.

[00:13:45] Jane: And 

[00:13:45] Etienne: just gonna sneak it in while

[00:13:47] Heidi: was, I think I, I believe she was going through a hard time or was in pain or something, I don't know. But yeah, I was like, I know what will help you.

[00:13:57] Etienne: Oh my God

[00:13:57] Heidi: But it was, yeah. So this is just a few years ago, so apparently I'm doing it in my sleep. I wish I could remember these times or do it consciously. 

[00:14:08] Etienne: You're traveling great distances here. Like these are not insignificant.

[00:14:13] Heidi: No, this is not next door. Yeah.

[00:14:15] Etienne: No, I mean, I thought it sounded pretty far. Jane, you're going like over the river. I was like, that sounds pretty far from away from your body. Do we worry about not going back to the body at some

[00:14:25] Heidi: no, everything I've read you're tethered to your body, so like it's Yeah. You're gonna, that's like Hollywood stuff where you can be separated from your body. No,

[00:14:36] Etienne: Okay. 

[00:14:37] Heidi: that's your body. I mean, can you get possessed?

[00:14:40] Etienne: Oh, 

[00:14:40] Heidi: There's people who've been possessed, but they can't kick you out of your body.

[00:14:46] Etienne: oh, gotcha. They'd just be like joining you in the body. 

[00:14:48] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:50] Etienne: Oh gosh. 

[00:14:51] Jane: And that was like what the stranger with my Facebook scared me about. And I was just like, you could get knocked out. But I'm like, but then I read other stuff about that. There was like this, like a thread almost. Like you're tethered. That's why I was thinking, wow, you've got one of those like. You remember when in the eighties when your phone, you'd get the extension so you could just walk into the other room and still talk on the phone. Like before they had cordless phones. Heidi has got the longest extension cord on her soul like

[00:15:19] Heidi: I guess 

[00:15:20] Jane: I'm gonna Mexico, like wherever, just travel. Or maybe in some of these instances it was actually astral projection and maybe in others it was remote viewing, like what you described with the house almost sounded like,

[00:15:35] Heidi: Remote viewing. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

[00:15:39] Jane: I don't know enough about that to know what the difference would be and if you would register the difference. And,

[00:15:47] Jane: uh, like to me, the astral projection was a very distinct experience because when I returned to my body, I felt the suction of it.

[00:15:54] Heidi: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:55] Etienne: Well, did you feel that when it happened to you as an adult? 

[00:15:58] Jane: Yeah, well, it hasn't happened to me as an adult.

[00:16:01] Etienne: Oh, I thought you had an sort of out of body experience in the 

[00:16:05] Jane: I had a dis Well, okay. And 

[00:16:08] Etienne: dissociative. 

[00:16:08] Jane: Dissociative.

[00:16:09] Jane: See, and I don't, you know what, that's No, that

[00:16:12] Jane: is a very good point, Etty. And I wasn't going,

[00:16:15] Etienne: it's okay. 

[00:16:16] Jane: I wasn't gonna bring that up because I wasn't sure. I'm like, does that

[00:16:19] Etienne: I thought that.

[00:16:19] Jane: really does. I mean, it really felt so crazy.

[00:16:22] Jane: So what Etty's referring to is an experience I'd actually talked to my doctor about. 'cause I was like, what is this? Because it didn't feel the same as when I was a kid with the suction thing.

[00:16:33] Jane: It was just all of a sudden, I wasn't in my body anymore. And then when I came back into my body, it was more of like, I had all of a sudden just. Faded in, so it wasn't like a, it was a, a fading in and I could hear myself talking and being like, oh, oh, I'm back. I'm back. And it wasn't like passing out either, 'cause I've had that happen to me. So what was happening is I was having amazing sex and I just left my body. I just, all of a sudden I was in a I wouldn't even call it a room.

[00:17:04] Jane: I was just in this area where everything was just very gauzy and kind of fuzzy around the edges. And I was having a conversation with my husband and I was like, oh, you are here too. And I was very conscious of the fact that this was my spirit, this is gonna sound so crazy. My higher self or whatever, talking to his higher self.

[00:17:25] Jane: And I was like, oh, we're here together and you're doing these amazing things to my body. And I'm like, oh, I should go back there to appreciate what's happening. Um, but I was like, I love you so much. And then we were talking, but not really talking. And I, I really can't explain it. I felt completely blissed out. And all of this happened right after an incredibly strong orgasm. So that I really did think, when I came back into my body, I was just like all of a sudden looking at my clothes. 'cause this happened to me twice. It was at the second time that I was like, I'm gonna go to the doctor.

[00:18:00] Jane: But, um. The first time I was like, all of a sudden I felt disoriented in my body. And I said, but wait. But we were in that other place and what happened? And I said, who put these clothes on me? I couldn't remember how the whole encounter with my husband happened. I couldn't remember just the sequence of events.

[00:18:18] Jane: And then all of a sudden it came flooding back to me almost like after you have like a drunken night. And then someone's like, yeah, and you got on the stool and you told that story, and then it all comes back to

[00:18:26] Jane: you. He said, we were standing over there and we were kissing and I like this outfit and it's new.

[00:18:31] Jane: And I was like, oh my gosh. Okay. Now I totally remember putting it on and I remember everything. I remember everything up until the moment I left my body, and I said. Did I look asleep to you? And he said, no, you were enjoying yourself. And said, now we're talking. And I was like, how much time has passed since I had that orgasm?

[00:18:52] Jane: But I said, A little bit more crassly 'cause we're

[00:18:53] Jane: whatever. And he was 

[00:18:54] Jane: just like, maybe 30 seconds. And I was like,

[00:18:59] Jane: dude, like, a lot happened. I'm like, I, like I went somewhere and you were with me. And it was, anyway, he was

[00:19:05] Etienne: Wow. 

[00:19:06] Jane: and kind of jealous. But then I did start to think like later in the day, I'm like, I feel weird.

[00:19:12] Jane: Like a little bit, I mean, I was still doing stuff, but I just, I felt a little bit floaty, you know? And, the second time that it happened, same series of events, a same room where we're in this foggy place that like, oh, we're here again.

[00:19:26] Jane: Then I said, you know what? Well, that felt like a spiritual experience. I wanna make sure that it's not some kind of brain thing. Like, did I just have a stroke? But he's like, no. He's like, I don't, 'cause he's a medevac helicopter pilot and he is around people who have strokes. He's like, no, everything was fine,

[00:19:42] Jane: you know, with face 

[00:19:43] Etienne: didn't go.

[00:19:43] Jane: and your, and your speech.

[00:19:45] Jane: And he said, everything, you're moving everything around fine. And,

[00:19:48] Heidi: you're not having a seizure

[00:19:50] Jane: No. But so I had to explain this to my doctor and I was like, listen, I don't know how to explain this, so I'm just gonna just say what happened to me. And, he was like, oh, global transient amnesia. Which I feel is like, almost how medicine explains out-of-body experiences, because they say, oh, well you dissociated, you know?

[00:20:10] Jane: And I said, but aren't you supposed to do that when something traumatic happened? Like, trust me, nothing traumatic was happening. Like, it was amazing.

[00:20:15] Etienne: The opposite

[00:20:16] Heidi: you weren't disassociating, you were going to another realm. 'cause I've left my body during meditation. Just meditating. I've left my body and gone somewhere and had a journey and met people and then come back. When the meditative person that's leading the meditation brings you back, you're like, oh, now I'm back in my body.

[00:20:37] Heidi: Okay, now I'm back. Okay. I can feel my body again. I'm back in Iowa. All right?

[00:20:43] Jane: Well, now that you're saying that, I do that every time I do a Kundalini yoga practice,

[00:20:47] Jane: and I've done it in many meditations, and I know that Etienne, you're very deep into meditation. So

[00:20:52] Jane: maybe does it feel similar to what I'm describing, but just

[00:20:56] Jane: with a different inciting incident?

[00:20:58] Etienne: yeah, no, I, I, when I'm meditate, the way that Dr. Joe, the way he guides you, he wants you to go, like you're focusing on your body. You're focusing on different parts of your body very, very closely. Like you're doing your chakras basically. And then after you do your chakras, which he doesn't call it, that, your energy centers is what he calls it, but he actually says what area of your body you're on.

[00:21:20] Etienne: He doesn't wanna use the terms that people might like. Oh, what are we doing? I can't do this. I have, I 

[00:21:25] Etienne: believe in God, Jesus. You know, so they can't think about chakras and stuff like that. So yeah, he makes you think about your chakras and then he sends you to. Nothing. He wants you to go into nothingness.

[00:21:38] Etienne: And I do go into nothingness. I do. So I don't feel my body anymore. I don't feel where I'm at anymore. I'm literally in just nowhere. And when I was at that retreat last November, the meditation retreat, there was one time when I was meditating and I was in the nothingness and I felt my head like kind of go to the side, like 45 degree angle to the right and a little bit down.

[00:22:03] Etienne: And I couldn't move my head anymore. I was conscious that my head had to stay right here for the rest of the meditation and I could still hear people around me, like you'd hear a random cough or a sneeze or somebody just moving. But I could hear that. But I was still in this other place, you know, I

[00:22:24] Heidi: So you were, you were out and also grounded. I've had those before too, where I could still perceive everything around me, but I was definitely gone as well.

[00:22:34] Heidi: Like I 

[00:22:35] Etienne: And it felt amazing. Yeah.  I didn't wanna, I really didn't wanna come out like I wanted to stay there for, I mean, we were there for a while. It was nice. It was at least, I would say it was at least 10 or 15 minutes. I was like this, it was awesome. Yeah.

[00:22:47] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:22:49] Etienne: But I didn't see a vision of some other place that I was in.

[00:22:51] Etienne: It was just the blackness, the nothing. And when I'm meditating and I'm trying to get to the blackness sometimes I feel like I, I'm one of those people where my thoughts are really image based or visual based. So, when I'm meditating and my mind wants me to, no, you wanna do this or you wanna think about this, like, it just throws an image, like a visual into my head.

[00:23:15] Etienne: And so I'm thinking about, oh no, you wanted to do what later today? And it's like, literally , then I'm doing that in my head and I'm like, no, stop. No, no, no. Nothing Back to nothing, back to nothing. Stop doing that. So yeah, that's not what I wanna do. But yeah, so that's the only kind of visuals that pop in.

[00:23:34] Etienne: But Dr. Joe does talk about, he wants us to be able to, at some point get to the place where we can have a true metaphysical experience. And it's all about really accessing your pineal gland and activating it and getting into the nothingness, and also doing it a certain time of day.

[00:23:53] Etienne: That's why we had that one meditation that started at four in the morning because supposedly that's that the most, like, that's the time of day where your body and your mind is at its most vulnerable to these. Yeah. The, yeah. So we, there's something about it. There's some kind of chemical that's in your body that it's at a highest point at that time of the morning.

[00:24:12] Etienne: That's why we had that five hour meditation that started at four in the morning. Yeah. I did not have a metaphysical experience. Maybe I will though at the upcoming retreat that I'm going to, but 

[00:24:23] Heidi: yeah, 

[00:24:23] Etienne: yeah, I'm excited. 

[00:24:25] Etienne: He had, he's had some crazy one, like he literally visited like past lives where he 

[00:24:29] Heidi: hmm. I have too.

[00:24:30] Etienne: Yeah. Where he was like a footman, it sounds like in Victorian England, or even earlier than that. Like he had this whole story he told us it was crazy. 

[00:24:39] Heidi: Yeah. Oh my gosh, I've had so many metaphysical experiences while meditating, like so many past life regressions. I even found one of the past lives, like, I found her. It was,

[00:24:54] Etienne: Like you talked to your past person, 

[00:24:56] Etienne: is that what you're saying?

[00:24:57] Heidi: well, no, I found her. She, so she, I could tell she was in France

[00:25:03] Jane: Wait, ground us 

[00:25:04] Etienne: I'm still confused. 

[00:25:05] Jane: you say that you found her, were you meditating in the

[00:25:08] Heidi: No, I, so I had the meditation. I saw her

[00:25:12] Etienne: her? You in the past life or somebody else.

[00:25:16] Heidi: it my past

[00:25:16] Etienne: Okay.

[00:25:18] Heidi: So I'm seeing it like I'm seeing a movie, right? Like I'm a ghost visiting her, right? And so I see her at a party, I see her life, and I'm like, oh, wow. Okay. So she was a wife of a well to do person 'cause she was hosting one of those big parties and Napoleon style people were there and

[00:25:38] Etienne: Oh wait, was she trying to stop people from shitting behind the tapestries and stuff? 

[00:25:43] Etienne: Sorry. 

[00:25:44] Heidi: but anyway, I, I just, I got it in my head. Like, I wonder if I would be able to find her. I don't know. I don't even know how it started. But I started looking at portraits out of France and I freaking found her and her backstory lines up so much with the lesson that I was needing to learn. Like she was first a mistress, gosh, I'm trying to remember her name.

[00:26:10] Heidi: Catherine. She's got a crazy name. 

[00:26:13] Jane: You wrote this down somewhere 'cause I remember you telling me when it happened. 

[00:26:16] Heidi: yeah. So I did some research on her and I found out like she had first been a mistress of her soon to be husband, so they got married and she had a great life. When he died, his kids were like, we are not supporting you anymore. So she became destitute and they like tried to erase her basically from history, from everything.

[00:26:40] Heidi: But, she had kind of a rough life before him and then during, it was living the high life and then, yeah, after he died, it was another rough life. But, it was crazy that I found her portrait. She had been painted and I was like, oh my gosh, that's the same chick I just saw.

[00:26:57] Heidi: Yes. It was wild that I was able to find her and look more into her backstory.

[00:27:02] Heidi: And then another one, I was a Scribner. And he always wanted to be a writer, but was always writing other people's words. And another one was a gay Chinese train worker, building the railroad

[00:27:18] Etienne: Oh my God. 

[00:27:20] Heidi: And he was beaten to death.

[00:27:22] Etienne: Uh,

[00:27:22] Heidi: Yeah,

[00:27:23] Etienne: was it a hate crime if they had those back then? Which they didn't, but Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:28] Heidi: I think so. Yeah, I think, yeah, he just wrong person. I don't know. Something happened and then, yeah, they beat him to death. He was definitely gay and was trying to hide it and everything, but was also, like he's practically a slave working on the railroad

[00:27:46] Etienne: Yeah. 

[00:27:47] Heidi: So, it was a really rough life. And I'm wondering if that's the one where maybe that's the life where. I died of thirst or almost died of thirst maybe. I don't know. 'Cause yeah, in this life I always have to have several drinks on me. These guys 

[00:28:02] Heidi: know all about it. 

[00:28:03] Jane: At all times, 

[00:28:04] Etienne: Actually no, I haven't been around you in person enough to know that.

[00:28:08] Jane: anytime I have three drinks around me, if I have a cup of tea and a water and a fruit drink, I'm like, I'm channeling my inner Heidi. Like there, there've been times I've actually sent pictures to her. I'm like, Heidi, look, I have all the drinks. Because you always have like at like at least three drinks at all times. And if she doesn't have something to drink, she has to immediately

[00:28:29] Heidi: Yeah. I've forgotten. So, to bring something with me and I'm just going to the store, but I go into like almost a panic, like, oh my God, I'm gonna die of thirst.

[00:28:39] Etienne: because you wait. So you did die of thirst in when you passed anything?

[00:28:42] Heidi: I must, I'm thinking so that's 'cause this comes from, I don't know where this comes from, this internal panic.

[00:28:49] Heidi: If I don't have something to drink, seriously if I leave the house without something to drink, my mouth instantly goes dry. I instantly go into a panic mode and I'm like, I need water. I need something. So, yeah. If he was building railroad through the desert,

[00:29:08] Etienne: think there was much water breaks or 

[00:29:11] Heidi: yeah.So he is probably just always thirsty and maybe that somehow got passed down to me. But, he was beaten to death for sure. That was horrific. But yeah, these past life regressions, wild, wild stuff

[00:29:27] Etienne: Where did you do them? Yeah. Did you do them with another person guiding you?

[00:29:32] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah. I had somebody who did hypnosis, knew how to do the past life regression, hypnosis, take me back and, yeah, it was wild, wild stuff. And these types of experiences, like you can't prove it or disprove it, it's just something you're experiencing and 

[00:29:49] Etienne: Yeah.

[00:29:49] Heidi: it's for your own benefit. 'Cause each of those lives, I kind of learned a little bit about why I do some of the stuff or why I strive for certain things. Especially with her life being erased, basically, or they tried to erase her. I'm like, oh, I'm a storyteller. I need to tell these stories.

[00:30:09] Heidi: And the scribner, wanting to always write, I'm like, oh, I wanna write stories and I'm doing it for him. So I almost feel like I'm living this life for all these other lives that they couldn't complete,

[00:30:19] Etienne: Oh 

[00:30:20] Heidi: What they had wanted to do because of society or whatever

[00:30:24] Etienne: yeah. I would be interested in. I mean, I definitely saw a psychic who did past lives way back when I was in my early twenties, late teens. But, she said like, oh, you were a high priestess. I'm like, I bet you say that to everybody like 

[00:30:40] Jane: Yeah, that kind of sounds.

[00:30:41] Etienne: that. That's not,

[00:30:42] Heidi: That, yeah, 

[00:30:45] Jane: sounds so believable because you actually, like, do you, every project you do, you always wanna ground it in history and you're always looking for people whose stories haven't been told and like waiting, you know, using it as not just like, okay, fodder for

[00:30:59] Jane: stories, like we all do that, but you're actually looking to be like, I have to do this justice.

[00:31:03] Etienne: Mm-hmm. Yeah. To have, I mean, yours sounds real, like real, real? That sounds believable. And you

[00:31:10] Heidi: Like why would 

[00:31:11] Etienne: her face, I'm assuming you saw her face, that's how you

[00:31:14] Heidi: I saw her face. I saw her face, and I mean, it sounds unbelievable that I found her in a portrait and I was able to find out her name and look into her backstory. 'Cause I just, I thought, I was like, okay, if she's this big in society, surely she was painted, so maybe I can find her.

[00:31:34] Heidi: So I just scoured art museums, and just looked at the different portraits that were out there. 

[00:31:41] Etienne: Yeah. 

[00:31:42] Heidi: I found her and somebody else found her portrait too, 'cause I discovered somebody was using that portrait on stationary and notebook covers. So I actually have her portrait on a note pad. Yeah. I, yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. 

[00:32:00] Jane: That is so bonkers

[00:32:01] Heidi: Cause she's got a certain look on her face, like, and it says as if, as if so. 'cause she's just like, uh, as if, so I found that pretty cool that she's marketing material. Yeah. They got merch with her face on it. 

[00:32:21] Etienne: That is really cool man. 

[00:32:23] Heidi: Yeah, it's wild that I found her and I was able to look more into her backstory.

[00:32:30] Heidi: Because she was always, when I experienced her in the past life regression, she was like, I need you to tell my story. I need you to tell my story. I'm so glad you're here, kind of thing.

[00:32:40] Etienne: We know what I was thinking about these past lives. So if we store in our DNA information from previous incarnations of our family members from the past and so in our DNA, and then we're also having past lives that are stored in our soul, then we have all of this information that's affecting us besides what's in our current lives.

[00:33:07] Heidi: Yeah, and there's people who believe that you can tap into those past lives to gain skills and talents too. So yeah, there's lots of people who tap in, start playing the piano

[00:33:20] Etienne: That's the first thing I thought of. I was like, I'm Mozart. Not that I was Mozart, but I was thinking, who is Mozart? And then they could be like, he is amazing 

[00:33:29] Jane: Yeah, but he, maybe he just tapped in. Well, when they're little, my daughter when she was little had memories of 

[00:33:36] Etienne: you were gonna talk about that. 

[00:33:37] Etienne: Yes, please. 

[00:33:38] Jane: Yeah, it'd be, and it was just, I couldn't explain it any other way. And had I not had a previous experience babysitting a kid who said weird stuff that led me to believe in past lives, I might've missed what my daughter was remembering and trying to communicate to me. 'cause when my ex-boyfriend, his mother watched this little boy and so we would hang out with him a lot. I was in my early twenties and when he was two years old, we were driving back from the beach and he was in the backseat and we were going over a bridge. He's two. And he said, be really careful. This is how I died last time. Why would a 2-year-old

[00:34:21] Etienne: no, he's not lying. 'cause two year olds don't lie.

[00:34:24] Jane: no. Okay. And this is, you have to understand, this is the early nineties. So it's not like somebody indoctrinated him with this idea and also could he have even latched onto that? He's two. So it was a very weird thing to say. And I was really freaked out about it, but then I became fascinated and I started reading about it and there's actually a lot of documentation of people doing studies about this. So I knew about it, and then I just lived my life. And then fast forward to, I'm a mom of a toddler who also starts saying weird things. Now, she doesn't say the word die, but she starts saying things like, last time I lived in South Carolina, I was like, what? You know?

[00:35:03] Jane: And then she would just remember things. The first thing was we were reading a storybook and there was a robot in it that really did look like the robot from that show from the late sixties called Lost in Space with

[00:35:18] Jane: Danger, danger. Will Robinson. Okay. The robot did have that look.

[00:35:23] Jane: It wasn't the exact same robot though. I can't remember the book, whatever it was, some children's book. And she saw this robot picture and she's jumping up and down and just pointing at it. She's like, I remember this. I remember this robot. He says, danger, danger.

[00:35:36] Jane: And I was like, what the, she at the time was like two and a half. She was so excited. She's like, I remember it. And she's like, from when I lived in South Carolina before, and I went, such a weird thing to say, right? So after she went to bed, I called my dad and I said, have you been watching reruns of Lost in Space when you're babysitting her?

[00:35:55] Jane: And he was like, I don't even, 'cause I haven't thought about that show in 30 years. I don't even think it's in syndication. And I said, okay. And then other things would happen, and it would be specific songs, specifically songs by the Doors. Now you have to know that my husband does not like the doors.

[00:36:12] Jane: He doesn't get what the big deal is about them. It's an inside joke. Every time a song by the doors would come on the radio, he would just be like, I don't get it. You know? So we don't listen to the doors very often. I like the doors but because he doesn't, the albums that I have by them are like tucked away, you know?

[00:36:28] Jane: So, I wasn't ever listening to them. But we do have satellite radio and I was listening to the classic vinyl station. So every once in a while it would come on but I hadn't listened to them with my kid because I was trying to be like listen to only classical music and enhance her brain.

[00:36:43] Jane: I would play the Beatles. But that was it. But then I was like, all right, she's almost three. Let's just get something different rotation, because I was also listening to a lot of children's music. And honestly, if I heard Row Your Boat one more time, I think I was gonna freak out.

[00:36:55] Jane: So I just put it on. So break on through to the other side by the Doors comes on the radio. She's on the other side of the house and she hears just the beginning rift. She goes, oh my God. I remember the song. And I was like, okay. I know she's never heard this song before. Right? She's two and a half, and she just goes into this very zen-like state, closes her eyes and does that kind of like hippie blissed out dance where you look like you're surfing, but there's no surf war.

[00:37:25] Jane: It's just you on the floor, just grooving and, and, and moving. And she was just enthralled. And she looked like she was almost gonna start crying.

[00:37:34] Jane: And she hugged me, she goes, thank you so much. This was my favorite song. And I said, 

[00:37:38] Etienne: oh. 

[00:37:39] Jane: okay. 

[00:37:41] Etienne: What? 

[00:37:41] Jane: And then, it's just stuff like that would happen over and over again. And, yeah.

[00:37:48] Heidi: she say what her name was and that she wore Hawaiian shirts or something like that, or it was, it was a very specific shirt. I thought, oh, 

[00:37:58] Heidi: maybe I'm thinking of something 

[00:37:59] Jane: no, I was gonna say 

[00:38:00] Jane: that might be somebody else's story, but Yeah. But she would remember weird things like at Christmas time she was just like, what was the name of the king that wanted to kill Jesus? And I was like, whoa, we have not had this conversation. Yeah. And this is not Christmas conversation, so she's two and a half when we're having this conversation. Cause her birthday's in June and it was Christmas, so yeah.

[00:38:20] Jane: she's two and a half. I said the name of the king who wanted to kill Jesus. I said, well, without a king, but his name was Pontius Pilate. She goes, no, no, no, no, no. Not that one. The one who wanted to kill him when he was a baby. She was very specific and I just looked at her like stunned. And I said, King Herod. And she goes, yes, I remember. And I went, what? And then she looked at me, she goes, Jesus is a lot taller than you think he is. And I was like, what is happening? Like it was just, she would just say random weird things.

[00:38:49] Jane: And she goes, I remember him. And I'm like, you remember Jesus? And she goes, well, yeah. She goes, not from when I was here, like from in between the last time I lived in South Carolina and now. And I was like,

[00:39:00] Etienne: Wow.

[00:39:01] Jane: it was just, why would she say things like that? We're not super religious. I was religious that day, I'll tell you that. I was like, what? know?

[00:39:08] Etienne: Just that 

[00:39:09] Jane: Yeah. She goes, why did they kill him? And so I just like, on a two and a half year old, nearly 3-year-old level. I was just trying to explain to her, like, well, even was talking about loving each other and, but people at the time just thought that they would take power away from him.

[00:39:24] Jane: I'm like, how do you explain this shit to a toddler?

[00:39:27] Jane: She got so upset. She cried for the rest of the day. I thought I just ruined Christmas for her. But she asked these questions. I was trying to figure out how to explain it to her, but it was so bizarre. And then she would tell me other things like that.

[00:39:39] Jane: She would sometimes be in her room talking to somebody. I'm not in there with her and I'm thinking she just has an overactive imagination. I certainly did as a kid, but, oh, no, no. Then she said to me, sometimes there's fog in my room, like there is outside, but it's inside.

[00:39:56] Jane: She goes, do you ever see that? And the truth is, I have. I said, yes. And she said, it's not scary though. I'm like, no, it's not scary. Because when I've seen it, it's been like for some reason that is how I think I've seen a ghostie. And it just happened to her again now that she's 17. It, 

[00:40:13] Etienne: Wait, it happened again like recently? 

[00:40:16] Jane: Yeah. Not in her room though.

[00:40:17] Jane: It happened to her. She was at an old building in Camden. And, it just kind of came around the corner, just kind of like, woo, you know? And, and she goes, oh, okay. There's somebody here, you know? And she is not afraid. And

[00:40:30] Jane: I'm so grateful because when I was little. 

[00:40:34] Heidi: it You normalized it for her.

[00:40:35] Jane: I was not afraid when I was little, but when I got older, like even the thing I told you about the astral

[00:40:40] Jane: projection, right? When I was little I was like, okay, that was weird, you know? And then when I got older I was like, what the hell is happening to me? And then it happens to me as an adult and it was like this beautiful mystical experience, induced by a moment of probably just pure love and connection with my husband.

[00:40:56] Jane: And what do we, I go to the doctor to make sure that I'm not stroking out.

[00:40:58] Etienne: Oh.

[00:41:00] Jane: It's just really, I gotta practice what I preach. 'cause I told my daughter, I'm like, you're just connected to something, this body is just, we're just borrowing it for right now.

[00:41:08] Jane: But what's inside is like, it's made a stardust and we don't really know what it's like to live outside of our bodies, but when we do I'll, I promise you it's awesome. And when you see the fog or when these other things happen, it's a little moment of the mystical, piercing the veil and it's just proof

[00:41:23] Jane: that we're not alone and there's something bigger than us and everything is really cool. So apparently that stuck. cause then she sees a ghost and she just comes home. She's like, that was really cool. And I'm like, okay, awesome. What happened to me tonight? I would be like, oh my god. I'm still not over it unless someone's with me when it happens

[00:41:42] Jane: and, I need to get over that. But if I'm meditating and I have a Kundalini blue tunnel and I leave my body in the context of a guided meditation, I'm completely fine with that and blissed out and accepted as like a beautiful, peaceful experience. But if it happens not of my own accord,

[00:41:58] Etienne: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:59] Jane: I'm hearing myself 

[00:42:00] Etienne: Oh, so, so, yeah, a control issue, right? Like

[00:42:03] Heidi: Yeah. 

[00:42:06] Etienne: I'm hearing myself talk. Oh my God. Oh, but Jane, I wanna tell you, I did read Proof of Heaven. 

[00:42:15] Etienne: I better saw your liquid. Oh. And wow. I mean, I think it was right after I finished reading, Brian read it too. 'cause he's taken a lot of neuroscience classes, so I wanted to hear his take on it since the man who wrote it and had that experience was a neurosurgeon.

[00:42:33] Etienne: So he obviously knows everything about the brain, not everything, but as much as you can know about the brain. And, I believed him. I did, I believed him. And how he believes he went further to a place that people who've had near-death experiences, he went beyond that because that part of his brain was actually dead. That gave him his consciousness. So he was beyond his consciousness into that other space and into that other plane of existence. And it really, really, especially God, I don't wanna give away the ending, but do you remember the ending, like who he found out his angel was that he kept seeing that he didn't recognize, but then,

[00:43:15] Jane: Ah, yeah,

[00:43:16] Etienne: okay, I'm not giving that away, but, that was that. I mean, it gives me chills right now to think about it. I've been kind of a different person since reading that because I've been so hardheaded and so atheistic in most of my life since I was about 16, 17 years old that I couldn't believe before now.

[00:43:39] Etienne: And. Starting, like you need something to just start to try to open up your mind to believe in these other things. And it's gonna take more than that, I'm sure. And maybe when I have my mystical experience during my meditation, when I finally have that, maybe that will be finally like, oh, you know, like the heavens open up.

[00:43:59] Etienne: And, but yeah, it gives

[00:44:02] Heidi: But you don't have to wait till that retreat,

[00:44:05] Etienne: no, I mean, I'm trying to do it, I'm trying to do it on my own, but it, there's a difference. You, I mean, that's why I encourage anybody to go to be in a room with, oh God, I think there's 1500 people in a room that was the size of a very large convention room.

[00:44:19] Etienne: Okay. Way too close together. So the energy of everybody. It's just building the energy and we're all experiencing it. We're all like, and it's, it's just making your experience. It's multiplied your experience by a thousand probably. So that's why I can't wait to go back and do it again with all of those people 

[00:44:39] Heidi: Can you imagine what the energy feels like after an event like that? Because there was a study done and, I wish I could look it up, but, a woman did a study. She had people meditating in a room, leave the room, have test takers go in. 

[00:44:55] Heidi: They all tested in this room, okay? And then there was a control group that went into a normal everyday room.

[00:45:02] Heidi: That people who went into the meditation room that had been meditated in prior, they did much better on their tests. 

[00:45:09] Jane: Yeah,

[00:45:11] Heidi: Isn't that crazy? Like just the energy of the room changed their ability to perform better. So 1500 people in one room

[00:45:21] Etienne: It might have even been more than that. I can, I it was either 1500 or 2,500. 'Cause he figured out the math of like, do you know how much everybody's paid to be here? When you add it all up, that's a lot. Money

[00:45:35] Jane: you are like that. I.

[00:45:36] Etienne: don't care. I'm like, I don't care about the money. I'm, I'm here to have the experience.

[00:45:42] Etienne: And Yeah, it was, 

[00:45:44] Heidi: Well, people have that same kind of experience when you go to a concert and everybody's, you 

[00:45:48] Heidi: know, 

[00:45:48] Etienne: the energy, like you 

[00:45:49] Heidi: the 

[00:45:50] Etienne: which it can also be a bad experience, like if there's bad 

[00:45:52] Heidi: for sure. 

[00:45:53] Etienne: then spread that out. But if you go to a place where there's good 

[00:45:56] Etienne: energy, I mean there's nothing better than that. Honestly. There is nothing.

[00:46:02] Jane: I think that's the intention of church and that's why I think that if everybody is there in earnest, I think you could really have a transcendental kind of

[00:46:11] Jane: experience. But if people are there to just kind of treat it like some kind of spiritual gas station and they're very passive. You know what I mean?

[00:46:19] Jane: They're just like, fill me up. But they're not an open participant who's also contributing their own energy. I think that's why I've turned away from organized religion because I was looking for transcendent experience.

[00:46:37] Jane: Expecting it and coming as a participant of like, okay, let's do this.

[00:46:42] Jane: And then if there wasn't this kind of critical mass of other people in the room that were also wanting to do that, it wasn't resonating.

[00:46:51] Jane: And I said, okay, this isn't hitting the way that I thought it was supposed to hit. And I actually do remember thinking, this isn't hitting the way I remember, like speaking about past lives, you know what I mean? I'm like, this is not

[00:47:01] Jane: filling that puzzle piece space like that. This isn't it. And what ended up being, it was honestly, just kind of going down the cafeteria buffet of all the different spiritual disciplines and religions of the world and kind of picking and choosing where really it's like, okay, the Venn diagram of like where all the things kind of converge and like that. To me, I'm like, okay, that's the truth, and that resonates. And I'm gonna take that and I'm gonna hold onto that. And then when I'm in a room of people doing yoga or something, and if everybody is coming there with a positive intention and everybody's there to do something good for themselves and sharing energy, it could be something like that simple.

[00:47:41] Jane: Like, I feel it there. And when I feel it in church, it's usually when I'm alone, touring a cathedral someplace random in Europe, and then feeling the energy left over from when people were there in earnest who were really believing in earnest. But minus the corruption stuff.

[00:47:58] Jane: Like, pay me this amount of money and I'll absolve your sins, but if you're a witch, fuck you. I don't want any of that. I just want. The feeling of cathedral, thinking of like, we're gonna build this beautiful building as a homage to something bigger than ourselves, and it's gonna take 500 years to build and I'm never gonna see it finish, but I'm gonna build it brick by brick.

[00:48:17] Jane: Like that kind of, I like that. And to me, that book, proof of Heaven, to bring it back to that like, yeah, there's definitely something and it's light and love, and it doesn't look or feel like anything. You're really gonna be able to describe and for people listening, if you, well, 'cause now we've talked about this book a couple times on the podcast.

[00:48:38] Jane: It's, proof of Heaven, a Neurosurgeon's journey, into the Afterlife by Eben Alexander. And, Etienne, there's someone else that, my father-in-law and I read it together, and he also was on the fence and then he read that and he was like, I'm in. So that's why he wrote it. 

[00:48:56] Etienne: yeah, yeah. I mean, I, and I feel like if somebody reads that, who goes about in the world in a way, I mean, maybe they believe in heaven, maybe they don't, but maybe they just need to have it reinforced to remind them that we're all just. Here, and it shouldn't be about how much money we have, or anything about our possessions, all of this capitalist bullshit.

[00:49:20] Etienne: It should just be about, we are all human beings. We all should be here to love each other in a way and take care of each other. And if we did that, we'd all have a much better experience overall. 

[00:49:31] Heidi: we'd have heaven on earth

[00:49:32] Etienne: Yeah. It wouldn't have to be, oh, we're just waiting for that time. Yeah.

[00:49:36] Heidi: If we all realize we're all one, we're all part of the same spiritual goo, we go back to the spiritual goo when we're done. The separateness is kind of an illusion, you know? Yeah. We have our own personalities and experiences and stuff, but we really are all connected by this greater being and we're meant to love each other and help each other and there's enough to go around, 

[00:50:00] Jane: And I love that idea of like, you don't have to wait. You could have it. Now. It reminds me, I'm gonna get like a little geeky from my past life as an English teacher, but I used to love teaching Emily Dickinson just 'cause she had like this very rich internal life, but she had this poem, well she didn't title any of her poems that we just go by the first line of the poem, but it's the one referred to as some Keep the Sabbath going to church. And she's like, but I keep it staying at home with a bobble link, which is a kind of bird for a coer and an orchard for a dome. I'm not gonna recite the whole thing, but like, but the last lines are like instead of getting to heaven at last, I'm going all along,

[00:50:36] Etienne: Hmm. Hmm.

[00:50:36] Heidi: Hmm.

[00:50:37] Jane: And it, but I just was like, yes, yes. Like, I want that. Because I definitely feel connected to something bigger than myself when I'm meditating, but I feel connected to something bigger than myself if I'm sitting here looking at a waterfall and I'm like, that, that is amazing. Or standing in a cathedral, or looking at a little baby going, look at you.

[00:50:58] Jane: You just got here. Do, do you remember where you were before here? I can't wait till you can talk to me about it. I remember like, like our husband actually saying that,

[00:51:07] Etienne: oh, 

[00:51:08] Jane: and I was just like, you made it happen. And she heard you. 'cause she's like, I'll tell you, I'm gonna tell you some weird stuff and you're gonna be like, what? And uh, yeah.

[00:51:18] Etienne: oh, that's so 

[00:51:20] Jane: me, 

[00:51:20] Etienne: Yeah. Yeah, I'm at least partway there, which is a lot. That's saying a lot for me. I never thought I would, and I'm not saying I believe in a God, but I don't think you have to believe in a God to think that there's more than this, you know?

[00:51:35] Heidi: What about source

[00:51:37] Etienne: Ah, source. Yeah. 

[00:51:41] Heidi: You don't have to call it God,

[00:51:42] Etienne: there's energy. I believe in the energy of the universe and the energy of everybody. We all have energy, obviously that's what we're talking about with the meditation, in the room, the testers going in after people meditated in that room. That's, that's the energy of those meditators still in there.

[00:51:55] Etienne: So we all have this energy. It's part of quantum physics that everything is energy. 

[00:52:00] Etienne: You know, like we're not actually solid. We look like we're solid because the particles are moving slower to make us look like we have a body. So, I mean, it's, 

[00:52:10] Jane: That's so nuts to think about. You know what I'm saying? Like, we're just vibrating it.

[00:52:14] Etienne: You're vibrating.

[00:52:15] Heidi: mostly space. 

[00:52:16] Etienne: yeah, 

[00:52:16] Jane: mostly space, and it's an illusion that we're even separate from one another. If it's all energy, like, isn't that God? Isn't that the thing? Like,

[00:52:26] Jane: isn't it, it is just running through all the things like the source or the force.

[00:52:30] Jane: If you wanna get Star Wars about it, like Yeah. May the force be with you.

[00:52:34] Heidi: When you're on psychedelics, I have seen how we're all connected, like connected to inanimate objects too. Like I see all the connections. it's 

[00:52:43] Etienne: the life in plants and na, you know, and nature. Like, it's crazy.

[00:52:49] Heidi: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:49] Etienne: Everything is full of life. I guess even inanimate objects, maybe not things like plastic. Sorry, sorry, plastic. I'm not gonna count you, but things made of wood or metal, they came from the earth, the wood came from trees, like they could still have some energy left in them. 

[00:53:06] Heidi: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:53:07] Jane: Well, they talk to each other. They've actually figured out that they're communicating.

[00:53:12] Etienne: yeah. The trees that are still in the ground, I'm talking about like piece of furniture. That's what's crazy about trees in the ground. Yeah. That they talk to each other through their roots, and through the chemicals they put off, like I think also from their, into the air off of their physical selves above ground, I guess. Yeah.

[00:53:29] Jane: And the different fungi that talk with them under there, they've got this whole community happening.

[00:53:35] Etienne: It's crazy. I want community again. I want community. I think I grew up in community, but it went away over time. You know,

[00:53:44] Heidi: But with the internet and everything,

[00:53:46] Etienne: I think nine 11 started it though. I feel like nine 11 sort of started the, you know, and then yes, the internet for sure destroyed the rest of it. Or social media for certain, you

[00:53:58] Heidi: Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:59] Etienne: oh, we have a global community now. We need to see each other in person. We need to physically be there in a room with somebody. It's not exactly the same thing. 

[00:54:09] Jane: No, I like the little chit chat of the little old lady who doesn't work at my grocery store anymore, who would always just be talking to me, like she's getting so big. Just like those little interactions. I knew the people at my little post office and I had this interaction, but at least I do know my neighbors and I do talk with them and actually my neighbor on one side is a very close friend of mine. And, there've been people now in this neighborhood that we've all lived here for 20 years now. And so there is community there, but you have to be intentional about it. It's very easy to let it slip. And I think that, not that I'm saying it has to come from church, but, that is one form of community that people hold onto. And they're saying, okay, we're all here because we believe that we're connected to something bigger than ourselves. And so we should also be nicer to each other here in this intentional community that we're building. So I don't think that that's a bad thing unless you use that community to then aim and fire at the community next door because you don't like them for some stupid arbitrary reason.

[00:55:10] Jane: But if we could just get back to Nice. Niceness just being, just being nice. If we're all connected, then just be nice.

[00:55:21] Jane: 'cause if you're being mean to someone else, you're being mean to yourself. It just be nice. 

[00:55:25] Etienne: Yep. 

[00:55:26] Heidi: Follow Mr. Rogers. You know, just be kind to everybody and you know,

[00:55:31] Etienne: oh, so we need another Mr. Rogers in the world.

[00:55:34] Heidi: we do 

[00:55:36] Etienne: Oh, 

[00:55:36] Heidi: I? 

[00:55:37] Etienne: man. 

[00:55:38] Jane: We really do well, we'll have to just in invoke him like we were talking about in another episode of like invoking the muse and we're just like, Fred Rogers, please come to us and just help us be kind to one another. And, he was a minister,

[00:55:51] Jane: Right? De, he. Yeah. He

[00:55:53] Etienne: oh, I did not know that.

[00:55:55] Jane: And he was like, all right, talking to children and the way that they deserve to be spoken to with respect and kindness was that was what his chosen ministry.

[00:56:04] Jane: Then he was like, this is where I can do good. And when he testified before Congress about not advertising to children and then having quality children's programming that respected them and did a lot of character building, that was his life's work. So to me I'm just like, yeah, damn straight.

[00:56:23] Jane: He was a minister. Like I would, so yes, I did go to the church of Mr. Rogers as a

[00:56:28] Heidi: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:29] Jane: and I think we, we could all benefit from, you can find your church in different places and you can find metaphysical experiences and connection in different places. And let's all seek it out and it'll be a better place.

[00:56:42] Heidi: Yes. Start with meditation.

[00:56:47] Etienne: Yes.

[00:56:47] Heidi: Everybody. Just try it once.

[00:56:49] Etienne: I know you could do it for 10 minutes a day. It's amazing what 10 minutes a day can do for you.

[00:56:53] Heidi: And if you dunno where to start. Look for guided meditations on YouTube. There's so many good ones. I'm thinking of Reiki Rachel, like I always have.

[00:57:05] Etienne: That's cute.

[00:57:06] Heidi: I know it sounds, I will send you what, a couple of her meditations, but I always go on a journey with her and have amazing insights, so.

[00:57:17] Jane: And I like Richard Sealey. Richard Sealey has ones that you can like meet your higher self in a guided meditation and just connection to source through meditation. So yeah, getting closer to God, 10 minutes at a time, Or whatever 

[00:57:33] Jane: source, Rachel Reiki, whatever we're gonna call it. You just, you, you get there. Meditation at a time.

[00:57:39] Heidi: Yes.

[00:57:40] Heidi: That's our show you've been listening to, the Women are Plotting. If you have a story you'd like to share or have any comments, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com and of course you can find us on all the socials. Thanks, and until next time, be safe and be excellent to each other.