Adults Acting Like Children

One missing piece of Tupperware should not feel like a five-alarm emergency, and yet somehow it can. We start with the kind of domestic “micro crisis” that turns into a full body stress response, then zoom out to the bigger question: why do adults act like children when they’re overwhelmed, frustrated, or embarrassed?

We talk through “Peter Pan syndrome” as a pop psychology concept, including traits like avoidance of responsibility, emotional paralysis, and turning partners into a parent figure. Then we connect it to something more universal: emotional coping styles that can form in early adolescence and resurface later as door slamming, short quips, and that teenage “I hate you” energy when conflict hits. We also touch on emotional childishness and narcissism, including what it looks like when someone needs constant attention, lacks a filter, blames everyone else, and shows little self-reflection.

From there, we get personal and practical. Heidi shares a mortifying meltdown from her time in Korea, Jane tells the legendary Tupperware incident of 2012 and the revenge-blender twist, and Etienne opens up about how hormones, bottled resentment, and unspoken frustration can push any of us into an adult tantrum. We close with what helps: boundaries, earlier conversations, real apologies, and even cathartic outlets like rage rooms when you need to get the anger out safely.

Subscribe, share this with a friend who has strong feelings about kitchen containers, and leave a review if the conversation hits home. What’s the smallest thing that has ever set you off?

Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com, and find us on all the socials. Be safe and be excellent to each other.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Jane: Although recently we did have another Tupperware scare where there was another piece of Tupperware. There was another piece of Tupperware he had gotten attached to, and I didn't know it.

[00:00:09] Jane: And I had used it to put some granola bars in because they were loose. Like I didn't have the box anymore. I don't know what happened. And I was like, oh, this is the perfect size to put these granola bars in just till we're done eating them. And I'm in the other part of the house and I just hear him go, where is the Tupperware?

[00:00:25] Jane: And I was seriously, I was having like PTSD. Because this was just like, I don't know, two months ago, but the original Tupperware incident happened in 2012. It was the Tupperware incident of 2012. 

[00:00:41] Etienne: Welcome listeners. This is The Women Are Plotting. I'm Etienne Rose Olivier and I'm here with my friends and co-hosts, Heidi Willis and Jane Gari.

[00:00:56] Etienne: On today's episode, we're gonna be talking about adults acting like children. And, when I was looking up something to talk about for a fun, interesting fact for today, I came across a book called the Peter Pan Syndrome: Men Who Have Never Grown Up by Dr. Dan Kylie from 19 90, 19 83. And he also did a follow up book, which is a very similar title in 1997, called Men Who Never Grow Up. So there's just like one different word that he just took out. The Men Who Have Never Grown Up to Men Who Never Grow Up. Not confusing at all, Dan. Maybe you should have come up with a different title for the follow up book. But what I thought was really interesting here and Peter Pan Syndrome is not actually a DSM recognized syndrome. This is just a accepted pop psychology term. But, he lists seven different things that kind of characterize Peter Pan Syndrome and I will just point out a few that just sound a little close to home here.

[00:01:56] Etienne: Emotional paralysis. People who may have dulled emotions or express their feelings in inappropriate ways. Slowness, they may be apathetic, avoid tasks, or frequently late. Avoidance of responsibility is a huge one, obviously, as you can imagine for Peter Pan Syndrome, and relationships with women.

[00:02:16] Etienne: They may put their female partners in more of a mother figure role, if that sounds familiar for anybody. I don't know. For me it somewhat does, but, um, and Jane was gonna be next on our sharing our fun or interesting fact for today.

[00:02:31] Jane: I'm going through all the men in my head who fall into those categories. So my fun fact was generally for adults who are emotionally stuck. And I was looking into some psychological research that shows that your core emotional coping styles form between the ages of 10 and 15, which I found it was interesting 'cause I would've thought it would've been younger. But I thought, okay, that makes sense because then.

[00:02:58] Etienne: conflict related, like you have to learn how to deal with conflict? Is that

[00:03:01] Jane: Yes, yes, yes. And so you might have maybe some primary emotional coping styles that are more about attachment, like when you're a kid and you're relating to your parents. But then when you are coping in more sophisticated emotional relationships, then outside of your immediate family, then those get set between the ages of 10 and 15 and I was like, Hmm, how do I cope? And I was just thinking about like, okay, I guess I don't really feel that different from when I was a teenager in terms of certain aspects of my personality. So I dunno, made sense to me, it resonated with me. So Heidi, what is your fun fact that you found?

[00:03:41] Heidi: Well, mine was gonna be all about the Peter Pan syndrome as well, but, no, I thought it's very interesting. I sent you all a video earlier, Sabrina Carpenters top hit right now is Manchild, so I find that very timely, funny. So, yeah, we're gonna be talking about some people who act like children.

[00:04:07] Etienne: Yeah, we are. I was looking up stuff today. It was interesting to see that they really brought up the narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder came up a lot for people or adults that behave like children and, I was thinking back, 'cause of course I've talked about it before, but my mother having narcissistic personality disorder, growing up with her, all of my friends thought, she's so fun.

[00:04:29] Etienne: Your mother's so fun. And I was like, yeah, she's great. Like when you go to the grocery store and, and she just always loves being the center of attention in front of strangers where she's, whenever I would see that there was a line to check out, I would always be like, oh God, no, no, no. Please, no line.

[00:04:49] Etienne: Let's just get outta here. 'Cause of course, if we're in line long enough, my mother would start talking to strangers or start making really loud comments about the covers of the magazines or anything about celebrities or you know, like, oh yeah, I know so and so, or, you know, something like that. Or Isn't that crazy?

[00:05:06] Etienne: And just like having to make everybody turn around and look at her, and it's around children, like she would do this with my friends. She would just say super inappropriate things that my friends were like, that's why she's so much fun, 'cause she's an adult who says things that adults shouldn't say around children.

[00:05:23] Etienne: And it was usually something sexual or a sexual innuendo or something where you're like, oh my God, please. No, don't, don't say that. Like, just

[00:05:32] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah, I, I actually read an article from a psychology magazine. It was talking about the 10 signs of emotional childishness and all the stuff you were just talking about, like emotional escalations, blaming, lies, name calling, impulsivity,

[00:05:49] Etienne: Oh God.

[00:05:50] Heidi: Need to be center of attention, bullying, budding narcissism, immature defenses and no observing ego. I took a screenshot of that 'cause they're so just not self-aware at all. Like they can't think back to what they just did and go, oh, I did wrong and let me do better. Like they just have no knowledge of the disaster, they're living behind them

[00:06:15] Etienne: Although.

[00:06:16] Heidi: way through the world.

[00:06:17] Etienne: Thinking about that though, maybe that would be nice to have for like a day, like going to a party or something where you don't know anybody and you have zero thoughts of how are people thinking about me right now? Like, I need to, like, what do I wanna say?

[00:06:31] Etienne: Because I, I can't say that they might take that the wrong way and instead I have like the NPD, um, yeah, I'm just gonna be completely not self-aware, so I can just say whatever the fuck I want and like I'll just take their expressions at face value and not think that they're just trying to hide the fact that they're like, what is wrong with this person? You know? Like,

[00:06:51] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:06:52] Etienne: Why is this stranger saying this to me right now? Because I feel like that's exactly what they always were thinking of my mother, like.

[00:06:58] Heidi: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:59] Etienne: Why is this stranger saying this to me? Or when she would, I know I brought this up to you before, which was super embarrassing. And of course nobody's gonna stop her when we would go to restaurants 'cause I would go to dinner and lunch with her a lot when I was still in her life. And, she would love to go to lunch with me when there was nobody around. So we'd have this waitress, almost all to ourselves, 'cause it was an empty, like at a weird time, between lunch and dinner, that was her favorite time to go out. So she could get all the attention from the waitress.

[00:07:28] Etienne: And if she was an attractive waitress and my mother would completely flirt with this woman, way over the top. And because she has no other tables and she wants a good tip, and my mother obviously would, I mean, she looks like somebody would give you a good tip, which she did. You know, this woman's play along to get the tip.

[00:07:46] Etienne: And I'm sure my mother had no idea of that concept of why somebody would just play along. She probably thought, oh no, she likes that I'm flirting with her. Like I could get her number, this whole thing, which was totally not true. I'm sure. Not at all. So that was another, just so much embarrassment being around my mother, mostly like my whole life. Yeah.

[00:08:05] Jane: Oh my goodness. I never really thought about narcissism as like an emotional stunting, you know what I mean? Or like arrested development type of thing. And then not growing out of the egocentrism of childhood and then being cognizant of other people's needs and feelings around you. To me, I was thinking like, all right, adults acting like children, I'm thinking of just having a tantrum where you're just looking at them going, okay, that is something that a child would do, but also a child would do what you were saying, I'm thinking back to when my own daughter was really young and would do what you're saying, about being in line at the grocery store and she would just loudly just be looking at a picture of Kim Kardashian, be like, why is this lady famous? What did she even do like this? This is like an exact

[00:08:51] Etienne: Oh my God, that sounds like something my mom would say.

[00:08:55] Jane: Yeah, but I mean, but Phoebe was four when she said that and I had to then have a loud conversation back with her, 'cause she's speaking really loudly.

[00:09:03] Jane: And I was like, well, she's really just famous for being pretty, that's not a good enough reason. You know, and it

[00:09:09] Etienne: you didn't tell her the real reason. Well,

[00:09:11] Jane: Oh,

[00:09:11] Heidi: Oh, I know.

[00:09:14] Jane: 4-year-old, I always tried to stick with the Atticus Finch rule of just figure out an age

[00:09:19] Etienne: Yes.

[00:09:19] Jane: to always tell the truth to

[00:09:20] Etienne: Now, if it was my mother and I had said that, she'd be like, well, sweetie, there's these things called sex tapes, and it wouldn't matter how old I was, she would've told me that. And I, oh God, yes. Just always inappropriate a hundred percent all the time.

[00:09:37] Jane: But with that, I guess child, like, I never, I'm gonna look at narcissists in a different way now. I'm gonna try to see them be like, maybe have almost more empathy for them of like, oh, you're still a

[00:09:47] Heidi: You're still a 4-year-old stuck in a, an adult's body.

[00:09:51] Jane: yeah,

[00:09:51] Heidi: You never emotionally matured past that age.

[00:09:54] Jane: and since they're not emotionally available, I will keep them at more than an arm's length.

[00:09:59] Heidi: Yes. Yeah.

[00:09:59] Etienne: and think about it, they want this now, and if they don't get it, they're gonna go throw a tantrum. I mean, like, all these things make sense. These are things that little kids do, you know, they don't know how to share. They want all the attention, no filter. These things make sense. Like no responsibility, not wanting responsibility.

[00:10:15] Heidi: Yeah. And not taking responsibility when they are wrong and when they do wrong, you. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:10:21] Etienne: else's fault, not theirs.

[00:10:24] Jane: Oh my gosh. The dog ate my homework, but

[00:10:27] Etienne: The

[00:10:28] Jane: like, man,

[00:10:31] Etienne: hundred

[00:10:31] Heidi: self-reflection either. Like zero.

[00:10:34] Etienne: God, I think I self reflect every day. I know if there's a day where I don't do that. 

[00:10:39] Heidi: I know. Yeah. One of the stories I wrote down is actually about me, the time I embarrassed myself and had a meltdown in

[00:10:47] Etienne: Oh, let's hear about that.

[00:10:48] Jane: Oh yeah. I don't know the

[00:10:50] Heidi: I am owning up to the time that I was a fucking Karen. I will say it.

[00:10:56] Etienne: Oh wow. 

[00:10:56] Heidi: So in Korea, the dormitories, you shared a room with one other person and then the bathroom was shared between another room, so it was four girls sharing a bathroom. And, well actually it was just one girl who's was next door to us. So there was one girl in that room and she never cleaned. And it just got to a boiling point where it was like, oh my God, is this girl ever gonna help clean?

[00:11:20] Etienne: So in what way is this just, but you only shared the bathroom, right? So does that mean she was just leaving her shit everywhere in the bathroom? Like clothes on the floor 

[00:11:28] Heidi: just never cleaning the shower and the toilet. Like we were the ones cleaning all the time.

[00:11:34] Etienne: God

[00:11:34] Heidi: And we had carpet in the, on the, yeah, I don't know. I don't know who put that in, but was not me. I did not

[00:11:42] Etienne: is disgusting.

[00:11:44] Heidi: So gross. Yeah. So.

[00:11:45] Etienne: mold

[00:11:46] Heidi: One morning I wake up for my 12 hour shift and there is carpet fresh everywhere on this carpet. And I knew what it was, but

[00:11:57] Etienne: Oh,

[00:11:57] Heidi: I decided to knock on her door. I mean, she had finally cleaned and so I should have just let it be like, but I was just so frustrated, okay, she finally cleans, but she leaves this carpet fresh all over overnight.

[00:12:10] Etienne: forgot that the next step where you're supposed to vacuum it up

[00:12:13] Heidi: Exactly. So anyway, I mean, you get like, but I am not proud of what I did. I was pounding on her door screaming at her, just total meltdown

[00:12:23] Etienne: Oh my God.

[00:12:24] Heidi: 2-year-old style, just like I get so frustrated. So anyway, we ended up like she was. We were enemies. I was like her enemy. After that. She hated me, but I mean, I knew as soon as I did, I was like, oh my God. I am jumping to conclusions. I am being a complete lunatic 

[00:12:44] Jane: were you like jumping up and down, flailing,

[00:12:46] Heidi: just, had had it, and I think there was like, we didn't have AC working, so it was hot

[00:12:53] Etienne: Oh no.

[00:12:53] Heidi: we weren't getting a whole lot of sleep. So it just it came to a boiling point and I acted like a jerk and I wish I could find this girl. I'd be like, apologize to her like I am, I'm sorry.

[00:13:04] Heidi: You weren't cleaning either, so, but yeah, I, that's my time when I acted like a complete child and just ridiculous. I'm so embarrassed

[00:13:15] Etienne: Oh my God. I mean

[00:13:17] Heidi: day. This is like 20 some years ago, you know? No more than, oh my God, 30 years ago. So,

[00:13:23] Jane: it's still taking up real

[00:13:25] Heidi: yes. Yeah. I still have just embarrassed by it.

[00:13:29] Etienne: well, maybe she'll hear it and she'll remember. Yeah. I, I cleaned that bathroom and I left the carpet fresh down to really, really absorb that shit out of the carpet.

[00:13:37] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:13:37] Etienne: This heidi person. 

[00:13:39] Jane: deep, clean. And then I got tantrumed at

[00:13:43] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:13:43] Jane: it's not when adults have tantrums. It definitely is disconcerting. 

[00:13:48] Etienne: Yeah, but it doesn't mean you have, all right, let's just pause for a second here. 'Cause we did point out the Peter Pan syndrome and narcissism, like people who have actual personality disorders, having this child, you know, adults behaving like children. Syndrome, or whatever you wanna call it.

[00:14:02] Etienne: We're not saying any of these stories mean that we have Peter Pan syndrome or we are narcissists at

[00:14:08] Heidi: Well, I, I was

[00:14:09] Etienne: everybody has the capability of acting like children at a point in time.

[00:14:14] Heidi: yes, exactly. Yeah. I had self-reflection. I could look back and be like.

[00:14:18] Jane: Yeah, you're still embarrassed.

[00:14:20] Heidi: yeah, I

[00:14:20] Etienne: Yeah. So yeah, if you were, if you actually had a disorder, you'd be like, it wouldn't even cross your mind ever again after that.

[00:14:26] Heidi: a regular day.

[00:14:28] Jane: I will say, so my husband is not a narcissist and he does not have a personality disorder, and he is very self-reflective. And I will actually say that I've been friends with him for a long time. We met in 1996 and he has friends that he is had his whole life. And they will say that when he was younger he had quite the temper.

[00:14:51] Jane: So when I found that fun fact of just that your emotional coping mechanisms arise in your ages of 10 to 15. I'm just thinking like, huh, maybe that's why like my husband is kind of like stuck in, like if something sets him off, he reverts back to his coping style, which was definitely modeled for him by his dad.

[00:15:15] Jane: So he's trying to kind of break out of that because I will say, because my husband is a first responder, he'll be in like, seriously crazy situations, totally calm. Like if something terrible happens or we've sustained tragic losses in our family over the years and we've been married over 20 years and things happen.

[00:15:33] Jane: Calm, he's a rock emotionally stable available. But then if something upsets him where I feel like a child would get upset over it. He then will respond with a full blown tantrum. Now I will say, shout out to my husband. I love him very much and he knows this. He says that like I'm trying to work on it, he does not want to do that. And over the years, less and less and less and less like evolution a hundred percent. But the things that do make him lose his shit just like, they boggle my mind. And I'm just like, oh my God, what? We are acting like a 3-year-old. And he'll have self-awareness after the fact.

[00:16:07] Jane: And he'll say to me like, so how is it living with a 4-year-old? And I'm like, that's rough. I don't know, like why you act like that. So examples of the things that push him over the edge if he's working on something. And I mean working on something like trying to fix it, like tools are involved and there were some screws maybe that came loose, right?

[00:16:26] Jane: And he takes the screws, he puts 'em off to the side. If one of those screws makes its way like falls off a table, rolls under something, now it's on the cart, but it's blending in. Oh no, where is it now? Just goes from zero to a hundred. We're screaming, we're stomping. We are not turning red, but definitely there's a vein popping out in the neck.

[00:16:44] Jane: It's so cartoonish. If he were a cartoon character, it'd be like the steam would be coming out of his ears at that point, and I will have to leave the room because I'm about to start laughing and I don't wanna do that. That's just gonna make it worse. And I've asked him, is it really about the screws?

[00:16:57] Jane: Is something else wrong today, honey? And he's just like, no, it just makes me crazy. And, it gets all like talking through his teeth and it's borderline toddler ish, you know, and he knows it and he's like, I wish that that didn't get to me like that, but it does. So usually I'll just let it roll off my back and just leave the room.

[00:17:13] Jane: And I'm like, all right, I'll come back when you're done with whatever this tantrum is. I'm not gonna bear witness to it because then now I'm just gonna get, he's just gonna describe the situation at top volume, like a toddler discussing the magazine rack at the checkout line. So years ago, he's very particular about his Tupperware. And I did not know this at the time, this is how I learned that he's specific about his Tupperware. So, he had a piece of Tupperware that was actually in his defense, it was perfect for a sandwich. It wasn't the ones that actually come in the sandwich shape 'cause they make those, you know, but it just, it was Tupperware that was the perfect size for the kind of bread he was using at the time to make his sandwich that he would pack for himself and take to work.

[00:17:52] Jane: And, apparently it went missing, and so now we're on, it's like the screw, you know what I mean? He is like, uh oh. Where's my fucking Tupperware? And let me tell you, it was like an explosion went off. He was just like, where is the Tupperware that I be, put my sandwich in? And I'm just like, had no idea that there was a crisis.

[00:18:11] Jane: And so I'm just in the other room and my daughter at the time is in kindergarten. So she's also like, what is up with the tupperware? So just like, I don't know. And then I'm looking for it. 'Cause not to be sexist, but sometimes men just can't find things like in the refrigerator or in a cabinet

[00:18:30] Etienne: Yeah, they might be right there and you just, mm-hmm.

[00:18:32] Heidi: they're

[00:18:33] Jane: So I went looking, yeah, I'm looking in the Tupperware area of the cabinet. It is nowhere to be found. Like it's not in there. Now, our daughter's still in kindergarten. Bath time is a thing and it's lengthy and sometimes she needs cups and things to pour over her dolls hair, her own hair. Maybe, sometimes she was always taking like little cups and things to take in there. I was like, maybe she took the Tupperware and I said, maybe she, maybe Phoebe took the Tupperware into the bathtub. Let me go check. He's like, why would you let her take a Tupperware to the bed?

[00:19:03] Jane: I was like, oh, wow. I'm like, so that it could be like a little pool or something for a Barbie. Like I don't, I wouldn't let her do it. I'm just saying, maybe she did do it, so I'm gonna go check. So he's just like, I mean, it's just outta control. And he's stomping. He's huffing, he's throwing stuff around the kitchen trying to find the, you know, the mystery is enduring.

[00:19:25] Jane: We don't find it, whatever. We go to bed. He's mad, he's so mad about the Tupperware. You're not supposed to go to bed angry or something like that. There was no kissing goodnight or anything like that. It was just like,

[00:19:33] Etienne: Oh.

[00:19:34] Jane: like. Angry silence, intention, and just like, no Tupperware.

[00:19:38] Jane: So it just turned out like whatever, he goes to work the next day, I get up to go to work the next day. And there's still, there's no Tupperware. He sends me a text and he says, because he's thinking still that I've given the Tupperware to our daughter, which I did not. He just thinks maybe that's the only explanation. Phoebe has the Tupperware somewhere because I let her do something with it.

[00:19:58] Etienne: Oh.

[00:19:59] Jane: He sends me a text saying, since you think it's okay to give away my stuff to our daughter to play with or wherever, I've hidden one of your pertinent items. Have fun figuring out which one it is. And I'm like, what? It was such a weird, so I'm looking at the text and I'm 

[00:20:15] Heidi: of sinister. 

[00:20:16] Jane: yeah. And I was like, oh no. So I'm looking around, now I'm just like, I guess I'll find out what it is. Okay. So what it was was the blender because I went to make my smoothie that I was having every morning for breakfast, 'cause I was teaching school at the time and also getting a kindergartner ready for school. So I'm getting her breakfast ready. I'm trying to get my breakfast ready and the smoothie was quick. I could drink it while I'm getting ready and now I have no blender. So I'm texting him saying, Hey, figure it out. It's the blender. Haha, not funny. I was like, you can still make a sandwich

[00:20:50] Etienne: Yeah.

[00:20:50] Jane: and take it to work without Tupperware.

[00:20:52] Jane: I cannot make a smoothie without the blender, so this is not an equivalent. Also, I didn't give her the Tupperware for the 20th time. All right, where's my blender? And he's like, oh, you figured it out, but one word at a time. I will tell you in a minute. I'm like, oh my God, I need to go to work. Where is the blender? And he's just like, it's in. I'm like, Ugh, I serious. I, now I'm having a temper

[00:21:20] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:21] Jane: And it is just like the cubby now, the cubby is this little storage area in our garage. I definitely was not looking for the blender in the garage. So

[00:21:30] Etienne: My God, no.

[00:21:31] Jane: I went out and got it and made my smoothie very angrily. Scarfing the smoothie. And then I was just furious, you know, but I was like, okay, whatever. We're gonna find this Tupperware eventually. Take my daughter to school, then I just go to work and I, whatever. I, I let it go. I finally got my blender and now I'm doing it. But fast forward to the end of the day.

[00:21:50] Jane: He comes home from work, and he's super sheepish, which is not like him. And he walks in and the first words out of his mouth, I'm an asshole. And I was just like. Okay, I'm listening. And then he takes the fucking Tupperware out of his cooler, his little lunch bag, and he puts it on the counter and he is like, I found that it, it was at work, I had left it at work and I was just like, in my head I was like, be the bigger person. Be the bigger person, be the, and I was, and I said, okay. And I just looking at him like, I'm gonna need more than I am a asshole, right? So I was just like, look, give me your speech buddy. And he was just like, I'm sorry, I was acting like a child and blah, blah, blah.

[00:22:30] Jane: And he apologized profusely. And I was just like, all right, I forgive you. And I was like, just don't do shit like that again. And so, he has not, although recently we did have another Tupperware scare where there was another piece of Tupperware. There was another piece of Tupperware he had gotten attached to, and I didn't know it.

[00:22:48] Jane: And I had used it to put some granola bars in because they were loose. Like I didn't have the box anymore. I don't know what happened. And I was like, oh, this is the perfect size to put these granola bars in just till we're done eating them. And I'm in the other part of the house and I just hear him go, where is the Tupperware?

[00:23:04] Jane: And I was seriously, I was having like PTSD. Because this was just like, I don't know, two months ago, but the original Tupperware incident happened in 2012. It was the Tupperware incident of 2012. Okay. So we had gone a really long 

[00:23:22] Etienne: Okay. Wow. Yeah, that is 

[00:23:24] Jane: a tantrum, right?

[00:23:25] Etienne: 14 years.

[00:23:26] Jane: know but I could hear him gearing up and then where's the Tupperware, I'm like, oh my God. I was just like, like running to the kitchen. I was like, we're gonna solve this right now. And I was like, what Tupperware are you looking for? And he was just like, the one with the black lid. And I was like, I know exactly where it is. I used it to put granola bars in. I will give it to you right now. And then, I said, just for the record is this a piece of Tupperware that you use regularly for something?

[00:23:50] Jane: So I know to not use it. 'cause I know. You know, and he was like, yes. He goes, I use this for making something to take to work again because it's the right size. So never used that.

[00:24:02] Heidi: He needs to

[00:24:03] Etienne: Wait, wait. I know, but

[00:24:05] Heidi: in a special spot.

[00:24:07] Etienne: when did he change from the other Tupperware to this T? Like has, was there Tupperware in between or did it just go from the old Tupperware to this new Tupperware that you didn't know about? Like, you know what 

[00:24:16] Jane: It did start. Yes, I do know what you mean. And it's because he is, to his credit, like just continues to tighten up his diet and that type of thing. So he hasn't been making sandwiches 

[00:24:26] Etienne: uh. Okay. 

[00:24:27] Jane: So this has been recent. And I didn't know that that particular Tupperware was the Tupperware of choice.

[00:24:33] Etienne: That become special.

[00:24:35] Jane: It had become special. 'Cause to me, honestly, I'm not attached to like, I'm like, whatever, if my leftovers fit in this receptacle, like that's what it's going in.

[00:24:43] Etienne: I've gotten like that about. Well, okay. Well, when you live with people who have a hard time returning things, once they take them to other places outside of your house. That's when I start to get like, Hmm, okay, you can only use these Tupperware for that because like I may never see it again. That's fine.

[00:25:02] Etienne: I don't give a shit. But when I have my really nice glass. Because I like to use glass. I try not to use actual Tupperware anymore, and I try not to use plastic. So I have all of the, what's the glass ones called? I have the

[00:25:14] Jane: Like. 

[00:25:14] Etienne: that go on. Yeah. Pyrex. I have all these Pyrex ones that I use for my food, but I bring them back, like they go with me to work. I eat from them and they come back with me. They don't accidentally get left somewhere. So I do get possessive of those things, but yeah. So I can somewhat understand it, but it's only because they can go missing permanently and never be seen again with some individuals borrowing things. But that's just so funny. I

[00:25:40] Jane: But would you stomp your feet and freak out?

[00:25:43] Etienne: I would be like, don't ever. Classroom,

[00:25:46] Jane: I.

[00:25:46] Etienne: I would just put an ultimatum down, no, but I wouldn't stomp. There's no reason to. You can't go back in time. But I have had temper tantrums in the recent past, and I don't know if I would've had them if I wasn't going through menopause. I think that being peri and or menopausal and not being on hormones, as Jane has talked about, and I fully admit, I would lose my mind over nothing. But I would lose my mind to the point of acting completely like a 2-year-old, almost to the point of throwing myself to the ground and pounding the floor with my hands and feet, almost, almost.

[00:26:22] Etienne: But what I did was I threw water bottles, nothing that would hurt permanently. It was just to show my anger and frustration and screaming and yelling and jumping up and down, and then running away. That's what.

[00:26:38] Jane: Over. Over what? Like what was the inciting incident?

[00:26:43] Etienne: I believe one of them was while I was working out with my ex-boyfriend in our, we bought all kinds of equipment for the garage, so it was technically our gym for a little while and something he said to me while we were working out set me all the way off, and I don't remember what it was, but I was like, that's it.

[00:27:03] Etienne: I'm not working out anymore. Just, just so not true. I don't think I can go a week without working out, but I was like determined in that moment. I'm not working out again.

[00:27:17] Jane: Oh, you meant not again, not like, just

[00:27:19] Etienne: Not again, like never ever, ever. I've quit right now and I'm not doing it again.

[00:27:26] Jane: Oh my gosh.

[00:27:27] Etienne: Yeah, see for me, even before menopause or perimenopause, I would allow things to bother me without saying anything for a very long time until the frustration level gets so high in my body that I feel like I am gonna explode. Like the pressure is so high that it takes one more little, tiny, little incident.

[00:27:49] Etienne: You know, it's like that little chocolate at the end of your, at your meal that's going to, all the vomiting is gonna happen all over the restaurant now, like in that Monty Python.

[00:27:57] Heidi: It was the actual straw that broke your bag.

[00:27:59] Etienne: Yes, yes. And I lose it and I go completely mental and get all the bad energy gets out in that moment. And I don't wanna be this person.

[00:28:10] Etienne: I do not. But there are some relationships I've had in the past. That I'm going to try not to have in the future where the person that I'm in the relationship with to bring things up on a daily and or weekly basis when the incidents arise, that do bother me. This person made it very hard for me to, they were so sensitive to my comments that I felt like I couldn't say them. So then I would let them bottle up. So it was bottling, bottling, bottling, bottling, bottling. And then finally it's like, fuck it. Like I cannot do it anymore, you know? But I would like to have in the future relationships where I can actually express my frustrations.

[00:28:53] Etienne: Maybe not right in the moment, but very soon after so that we can discuss them and explore the feelings and not have resentment building up. I do not wanna be a person anymore where a resentment builds up and I explode like a child. It's embarrassing. Super embarrassing. Like just, it's embarrassing. I don't wanna be that anymore.

[00:29:13] Jane: Probably say to kids, like, use your words.

[00:29:15] Etienne: Yeah, all my work, no.

[00:29:22] Jane: don't wanna talk right now. I don't wanna, Ugh.

[00:29:25] Etienne: I'm fairly certain, one of our big arguments was about, like, one of the straws one time was about the dog, Koira that he had adopted that I could not live with because she was so untrainable and I could not have any more accidents in the house. I was losing my mind. And, something I think I asked him like, can you please take her for a walk?

[00:29:43] Etienne: 'cause she had so much, she was a hound, so she had all this energy and she was just. There was no place for it to go because she wasn't taken on walks. There was nothing was happening unless I was trying to do it.

[00:29:53] Heidi: That's almost abuse

[00:29:55] Etienne: Yeah. So I, I, yeah, so I asked, Hey, can you take her for a walk? And, I just read this in one of my journals recently, so I know this happened recently.

[00:30:03] Etienne: And, he got mad at me. And I'm like, so I think that was another, oh my God. Like I can't do it anymore. That, that is it. Yeah. Yeah. It's so much better to have the conversations within a reasonable time period of when the conflict arises versus, you know, doing Yeah. Letting it build, letting it build.

[00:30:26] Etienne: Letting that person make you feel like you can't express why, how you're feeling, like what is wrong, what's going on inside of your brain that's not feeling good, you need to let it out. over time as it happens so you don't become this tea kettle that's just gonna be like whistling its ass off on the fucking stove until the water runs out.

[00:30:44] Jane: yep. It's a very good analogy. And, I think it, it's circling me back to the fact that. I brought to the top of the conversation of our core emotional coping styles. I'm wondering if what we're actually talking about is our a combination of both tantrums of like a toddler and also just that prepubescent and adolescent angst of just like, I hate you. Like when you say it to your mom, you slam the door. You know what I mean? And you use words, but you use them in just really short quips and just, you feel like you just need to get all the doors between you and the person trying to make you do something that you don't wanna do, or whatever you're angry about because you just didn't have the emotional intelligence, at the time to use your words or to navigate it or have the tough conversation. And sometimes in that moment, especially if you're bottling something up, you just revert, you know? And it just all comes out. You're going back to 1989 with my conflict style and let's just shut up. I just, I'll do what I want, you know,

[00:31:45] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:31:46] Jane: oh my God. I could feel the teenage angst, oh my God. I'll just leave.

[00:31:54] Etienne: doors, you know.

[00:31:56] Heidi: Oh yeah.

[00:31:57] Etienne: Slamming doors is so good. I can't slam my front door. It doesn't work, but like the cheap as doors that are the rest of my house, they slam really good. wish I didn't know that. 

[00:32:09] Jane: I know, right? I've actually, my big time slamming door in my house is the door from my kitchen into the garage. And I feel like when I would feel that anger building where I can feel the toddler rage, the prepubescent rage, whatever. And I wanna just have a moment where it's like, yeah, you just like, stop on my feet.

[00:32:29] Jane: But then, I'd have an actual toddler staring at me, you know what I mean? When I was alone, with my daughter, and I'm like, oh man, I gotta model some emotional maturity in this moment. But it doesn't change the fact that I'm really pissed that the dog just ate our dinner off the counter. I'm trying to be just taking a deep breath and remembering all these cliches that actually help of like taking a deep breath and counting to 10 and then sometimes if I did still have an outburst and slam the door. Right, because there were a couple times where I slammed the door on my way just to go out to the garage to just be like, rah, like by myself, and then walk back into the kitchen with like happy mom face on, and I'm like, wow, that probably looked really psycho to my kid, you know?

[00:33:11] Jane: And I was just like, and so I just was honest with her and I said, you know, adults have trouble with their feelings too. And when Gretzky, who's my dog's name at the time, Gretzky ate our dinner off the counter before I even had a chance to cook it. It made me really angry because I spent a lot of time putting that together and now I have to start all over again with something for us to eat tonight, and I was so mad.

[00:33:37] Jane: I was so mad and it wasn't about you, and I made sure to tell her. I was like, this was not about you at all. I was just like, mommy needed to go scream in the garage because my scream had to go somewhere and I wanted to make it quieter

[00:33:49] Heidi: That's so good.

[00:33:51] Jane: I was like, but I still slammed the door. And that was probably really scary. And I just remember her looking at me, she's like, it was scary. And I was like, I'm

[00:33:57] Heidi: Oh,

[00:33:58] Jane: I said, I was like, this has nothing to do with you. I'm mad at Gretzky and I'm trying to figure out a way to just like do it. And I would try to help her, I hadn't thought about this in so long. 'cause you know, she'd have for little angry moments too. And I would just, I was like, I

[00:34:11] Heidi: oh yeah.

[00:34:12] Jane: I said, punch that pillow, which is as hard as you can, she'd just be like, wailing away on this pillow. I was like, you gotta put it somewhere. I was trying to teach her like not to break things or slam doors until the door comes off its hinges or something like that. Or sometimes,

[00:34:25] Etienne: Yeah, I was gonna ask that. Have you ever slammed a door enough where it didn't actually, it just popped right back at you? You know, you slam it, it doesn't actually stay closed. I, I've, I've slammed doors hard enough where they've actually just come right back at me. It's like.

[00:34:37] Jane: It was so unsatisfying, so un And then you feel like you just wanna rip the, you are like,

[00:34:42] Etienne: I just,

[00:34:42] Jane: god. Oh

[00:34:49] Heidi: you do, I'll show you. You're gonna go where I want you to go.

[00:34:56] Jane: my gosh. That's so

[00:34:57] Heidi: I love that. Rage rooms are such a thing now. 'cause I think, you know, if

[00:35:02] Etienne: to do that, didn't you?

[00:35:04] Heidi: I did that with my daughter. Not this past Christmas, but the Christmas before, it was her idea. And I kind of was like, okay, yeah, let's do this. And then I was the one that ended up going to town the longest. She was done, she was already spent out in the hallway.

[00:35:21] Heidi: And I am still just going to town on this printer 'cause I had so much bottled up rage from a lifetime of crap. So, it was so cathartic and so I sing its praises. 'cause I think everybody should go to a rage room and just get it out and.

[00:35:38] Etienne: Maybe I should make. Yeah, I wonder if there's one where I live here. See if I

[00:35:42] Heidi: You should definitely check it out. It's so cathartic and just feels good after you're done. You're like, wow. I really, because I had no idea like I, that I needed it that badly until I was in it and throwing bottles and smashing stuff and they even had a dummy that you could like stab and punch.

[00:36:00] Etienne: Oh my God.

[00:36:01] Jane: Could you write stuff on at first, like really just like an effigy situation? 

[00:36:05] Etienne: Um, uh,

[00:36:07] Heidi: You just had to

[00:36:08] Etienne: I think I'd wanna hit things with a baseball bat. I think that would be, I dunno if I wanna stab things, but I think I'd wanna smash things.

[00:36:15] Heidi: They had No, that's what you had, you were smashing stuff with the bat.

[00:36:18] Etienne: Oh good. Okay.

[00:36:19] Heidi: Bat Hammer. What else did they have?

[00:36:22] Etienne: Yeah, I think I'd on a really, really heavy bat,

[00:36:24] Heidi: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:25] Etienne: so it would feel really satisfying when it smashed into something, you know?

[00:36:29] Heidi: I destroyed a printer and,

[00:36:31] Etienne: Well, printers do need to be destroyed. I do. I wish I could bring my own old printers with me. I wish I still had them so I could take it. Can I smash my own printer that I wanna fuck up really

[00:36:41] Heidi: They, they would totally let you do it because

[00:36:43] Jane: Really, because my current printer definitely needs a beating. I, I, hate it. Yes. Looking up rage rooms near me. Yeah.

[00:36:51] Heidi: Printers are the worst. Right? Like, because I've had problems with printers as well, and I used to joke, they don't like me for some reason, but I don't think they like anybody.

[00:37:02] Etienne: I'm saying this is my last printer. The printer that I have right now. I'm not buying another printer. I'm gonna go, if I need to print something after this, I'm just gonna go, yes, I'm gonna go to Staples, I'm gonna go to FedEx office, whatever. I am not getting another goddamn printer. Fuck these printers.

[00:37:21] Jane: I mean, I feel like technology when it does, because we depend on it to make some things go smoothly, has been the impetus for some of my most recent tantrums that thankfully, because I work from home, if I'm alone, I'll do it. I have to say though, I even don't want to, I'm trying to work through it, even in that moment, like, I'll say it out loud, I'll be like, I talk to myself like a crazy person when I'm home alone sometimes, and I'm like, just give yourself grace Jane. It's okay. Just breathe through it. Yeah.

[00:37:49] Heidi: Oh, I do. Same

[00:37:50] Jane: I know you wanna throw this thing out the way because it helps me to like, talk through it.

[00:37:54] Jane: And I was just like, I wanna throw this thing out the window right now. I wanna throw it out the window because even though I don't have a five-year-old or a toddler, whatever, a little kid looking up at me, I do have a dog and I will say that my dog understands the F word and she knows that I usually only say it, if I say fuck and I'm mad. Or if I say shit and I'm mad, she gets up and leaves the room and we have a door in our house that my husband put this thing on it that's like a wing that comes off the door where she can use her face and open it and let herself outside.

[00:38:27] Jane: And it's wonderful because if I'm on a call with work and stuff, I can't just let her out, then she doesn't have to wait on me to go to the bathroom. So if something's happening. And it's not going well. And I'm just like, fuck. Like, she immediately, I feel she's like, oh, mommy's mad. And she gets up and, and I find myself saying to her like, this isn't about you, Tessa. Just like I talked to my daughter, I'm like, you're fine. I give her a treat. I'm like, mommy's just upset. It's about the printer. This is not about you. So ridiculous.

[00:38:56] Etienne: objects. They're the worst.

[00:38:57] Jane: Oh, they really are. And I just go and I pet her and I just try to make her know, but she's like, I don't care if it's not about me. I don't have to be witness to your anger, mom. I'm going outside. Tesa.

[00:39:10] Heidi: like the energy.

[00:39:11] Jane: Yeah. I was like, 

[00:39:12] Etienne: walk around the yard. I'll come back in and hopefully by then you've calmed down mommy

[00:39:16] Jane: Yeah. And that's exactly what happens. But I feel it makes me super self-aware of like, oh no, is this a really productive way

[00:39:24] Etienne: Well, and that's self-awareness means you do not have narcissistic personality disorder as per se. Yeah. You've got ego awareness. You can

[00:39:35] Jane: I don't even want the dog to be upset

[00:39:37] Etienne: I know.

[00:39:38] Heidi: Yes,

[00:39:38] Etienne: I mean, they're your fur. I, I love that term. I know some people think it's stupid, but I love that term fur babies. And I do not wanna have my dog get upset because I'm upset about something completely not about him. You know

[00:39:50] Heidi: 'cause you can't ex, you can't exactly explain it, so. Yeah.

[00:39:55] Jane: I just pointed the computer like an idiot. I'm like, it's the computer. It's not you. I love you. I love you. But she's like, I'm still leaving.

[00:40:01] Heidi: yeah.

[00:40:02] Etienne: you've crossed the line. Yeah.

[00:40:04] Jane: in anger, and I know what that means. It means I just need to come back later.

[00:40:09] Etienne: has really good boundaries.

[00:40:11] Jane: She does. Tessa is my dog. She has boundaries. She doesn't like adults acting like children. She has no zero tolerance.

[00:40:19] Heidi: That's our show you've been listening to the Women are Plotting. If you have a story you'd like to share or have any comments, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com and of course you can find us on all the socials. Thanks, and until next time, be safe and be excellent to each other.