Book Boyfriends Unmasked

We get honest, funny, and a little feral about the fictional characters who live rent-free in our heads, from Regency classics to modern fantasy heartthrobs. Along the way we name the psychology behind it, swap our most questionable crushes, and admit what these stories let us desire without real world consequences. 

• our favorite literary crushes across genres and eras 
• the popularity of classic “book boyfriends” like Mr Darcy 
• fictophilia and why novels can feel like relationships 
• Outlander and the enduring appeal of Jamie Fraser 
• fantasy romance tropes like immortals, vampires, and shapeshifters 
• Magic Bites and the slow-burn pull of Curran and Kate Daniels 
• True Blood crush debates and why certain vampires win 
• “problematic” or embarrassing crushes we still remember 
• how beautiful writing intensifies attraction in classics like Gatsby and Hamlet

Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com, and find us on all the socials. Be safe and be excellent to each other.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Etienne: I did wanna say one other thing about that character from A Court of Thorn and Roses. Um, the Rhys character, he starts out in the book as he's been held captive in this underground court for a while, and the woman who runs the court, he's been her sex slave for years, so he is, yes, he is her fucking whore. And you know, like, how much that resonates with me? So

[00:00:27] Heidi: dream job

[00:00:29] Etienne: like, "Can I please?"

[00:00:31] Heidi: Can I have that role?

[00:00:33] Etienne: But for him, can I 

[00:00:35] Heidi: That's exactly,

[00:00:36] Etienne: Oh my God, yes. Oh, yeah. So I hope I'm not giving too much away by saying that, but like...

[00:00:44] Jane: Wow

[00:00:45] Etienne: Yeah. Sorry, I just had to throw that in there real fast. Getting hot and bothered.

[00:00:50] Jane: Nice. You're like just thinking about it

[00:00:54] Etienne: Just thinking about it, things are happening. Oh Damn

[00:00:59] Etienne: Welcome listeners. This is Women Are Plotting. I'm Etienne Rose Olivier, and I'm here with my friends and co-hosts, Heidi Willis and Jane Gari 

[00:01:14] Etienne: On today's episode, we're gonna be talking about literary crushes. 

[00:01:23] Etienne: And my fun fact for today, since this is an interesting topic, I did a search, a Google search, for who are the most popular romantic literary male characters. So I did do male. Maybe I should've done a different sex.

[00:01:34] Etienne: But then they did give me the popular ones. They gave me the second popular ones, and then there was a third list, and that's the one I'm going with for my fun fact for today, 'cause I don't know if anybody's gonna have these. So, the top one in the other frequently cited favorites is this section.

[00:01:50] Etienne: Cardan Greenbriar from the book The Cruel Prince, which I've never heard of. He was known for his complexity, wit, and intense character development. Uh, that sounds good. I think I need to look up this book and go read it because I know that sounds intense, like, in a good way. The second one, I've read this book, Hunt Athalar from Crescent City. I've read that entire series, and he is really hot in there. Mark Darcy from Bridget Jones's Diary

[00:02:17] Heidi: mm-hmm.

[00:02:18] Etienne: and Henry DeTamble, I might be saying that wrong 'cause I never said it out loud, from The Time Traveler's Wife was the fourth one. Good ones, right?

[00:02:29] Heidi: I know.

[00:02:30] Etienne: And that one, it, yeah, that one it says

[00:02:32] Heidi: my number one

[00:02:33] Etienne: Oh, God, is it, it says, "Known for the enduring love he displays despite physical limitations." So those are

[00:02:41] Heidi: in The Time Traveler's Wife was, ugh

[00:02:44] Jane: Yeah. When you said enduring, I thought you were about to say endurance. I'm like, "Yeah, man." 'Cause he was just,

[00:02:50] Etienne: He was always having... They were just

[00:02:51] Jane: always-- They were

[00:02:52] Etienne: the time.

[00:02:52] Jane: much sex in the book, like, so

[00:02:54] Etienne: And how he had to wait or sometimes he couldn't 'cause he went back too far. Obviously she's a child, can't touch her, like.

[00:03:03] Heidi: Yep

[00:03:03] Etienne: Oh my God, that's so good. So wait, Heidi, what's your, uh

[00:03:07] Heidi: So I did a bunch of research too and found a bunch of lists, and the number one literary crush for most people is Mr. Darcy from Pride and Prejudice, which I don't know.

[00:03:19] Etienne: You don't know?

[00:03:21] Heidi: I, I, I mean, he's okay, but

[00:03:25] Etienne: What? What? He's

[00:03:25] Heidi: don't know. I like some

[00:03:27] Etienne: And he's got, he's rich and he's got an English accent, and he's like, he's like, he's, he... Or

[00:03:32] Heidi: so brooding

[00:03:33] Etienne: actually, like, modern. Like, the way that he, he approaches her and everything. You don't find that in that time period, you know? Yeah, I wanted them to be pregnant and fucking embroidering shit. I don't know. Like

[00:03:46] Heidi: Yeah, was definitely advanced for sure for that time.

[00:03:52] Jane: Oh my God. Sorry, the embroi- They are, they were always embroidering stuff. They really were.

[00:03:56] Heidi: Yes

[00:03:58] Jane: "What?"

[00:04:00] Heidi: Does that mean our embroidery, right?

[00:04:02] Jane: Or like sit there going, "I can also play the piano. I am accomplished."

[00:04:06] Etienne: Right, I can speak three languages. It's like, why do you care? You're not letting me leave the house. Like I'm just here to entertain you, obviously. Like

[00:04:16] Jane: To conversationalist

[00:04:17] Heidi: And this guy thinks I'm a actual human being? This is amazing.

[00:04:22] Etienne: I have

[00:04:23] Heidi: so romantic.

[00:04:24] Etienne: What? Yeah.

[00:04:24] Heidi: What?

[00:04:26] Jane: That's... The, the bar was

[00:04:27] Heidi: hear what I have to say?

[00:04:29] Jane: The

[00:04:29] Etienne: feel like Mr. Darcy's going down on me. That's what I'm thinking too.

[00:04:32] Jane: low. Ooh. And you can see the moors out the window, and you're just like, "Keep, keep your big black coat on. I like it."

[00:04:39] Etienne: Oh, yes. Actually, wait, lay the big black coat on the ground, and then I

[00:04:46] Jane: Oh my gosh. And then yes, bed me amidst the heather

[00:04:50] Etienne: I'm in that fantasy now.

[00:04:53] Heidi: Okay, Jane. Before we get further in, uh, Jane, what's your fun fact?

[00:04:58] Jane: Okay. All right. I actually learned a new word today.

[00:05:02] Etienne: Oh, what?

[00:05:03] Jane: a name for having a crush on a fictional character. It's called fictophilia

[00:05:07] Etienne: Oh my God. See, I knew you'd come up with something

[00:05:09] Jane: And I was just like, "What?"

[00:05:11] Etienne: this.

[00:05:11] Jane: And that it's actually psychologists say it's surprisingly common, especially among avid readers, because a novel lets you get into their inner thoughts and their emotions in a way that you can't, you know what I mean? Especially if it's, well, depending upon the perspective that it's written from, but if it's like third person omniscient and you can head hop among all the characters, you're like, "Oh my God, he's so," you know, insert whatever descriptor.

[00:05:35] Jane: And like, "And oh my God, she's so," you know, those are like the original parasocial relationships, right?

[00:05:40] Etienne: Oh,

[00:05:40] Jane: You feel like you know them and you know so much about them, and it's like you feel like you're falling in love too because you're seeing all these things and you're just like, "Oh, and his childhood."

[00:05:50] Jane: You know, you get so wrapped up in all the things. I did find a survey that was done, and I can't remember now what year the survey was done. 

[00:06:00] Jane: It was like a Japanese national survey, which I thought was an interesting thing that they're surveying, but that 13 to 17% of young people reported having romantic feelings for a fictional character.

[00:06:07] Jane: And I was like, "Wow, all right. Who commissioned that survey?" But, it was interesting. But there is, actually though I did find some other surveys though, and just cultural analyses that were saying that most people's first crush when they're young is on a fictional character from a book or a cartoon or, you know, something like that.

[00:06:26] Jane: So I felt very seen because I was remembering like all, and we've talked on a different episode of having crushes on TV characters when we were younger and that type of thing. 

[00:06:35] Jane: And so in a book, it'll still happen to me. I'm a happily married woman, but I was like, please give me Jamie Fraser.

[00:06:43] Jane: Like, I just want Jamie Fraser from Outlander to be like real. Even though my husband is a lot like him in terms of super protective and very strong, but then also has a temper about like things that you wouldn't expect. But just fiercely, fiercely loyal. But my husband does not have that crazy red hair or that accent. He doesn't wear a kilt all the time even though I really would like for him

[00:07:09] Etienne: Where's the kilt? He said he was gonna buy the kilt

[00:07:12] Jane: he is late to the party with this kilt. I'm, I'm still waiting. I'm still

[00:07:17] Etienne: I'm gonna give him shit when I see

[00:07:19] Heidi: Hey, you have all the costumes. You need

[00:07:21] Etienne: I know, that's what I was saying.

[00:07:24] Jane: And he's

[00:07:24] Etienne: have all the outfits.

[00:07:25] Jane: I know.

[00:07:26] Etienne: Mm-mm.

[00:07:26] Jane: I know. Brendon, if you do stumble upon this episode and you still haven't bought the kilt, like get on it 'cause I-- we already have the tartan picked out

[00:07:34] Heidi: a fake one. Even if it's a fake one for now.

[00:07:37] Jane: No. No. No.

[00:07:38] Heidi: Oh, really? It's gotta be the real deal?

[00:07:41] Jane: It's gotta be the real deal. Like, he doesn't have to get all the other accoutrement. Like, he doesn't have to get a sporran and like all of the other things. I just need the

[00:07:47] Etienne: Wow. You know what they're called?

[00:07:49] Jane: Yeah, the different pieces of the... Yeah, I do. But

[00:07:53] Etienne: Damn.

[00:07:54] Jane: I just want the kilt, and he doesn't even need the accent 'cause he doesn't need to say anything. Just come and get me with the kilt on

[00:08:02] Etienne: Is he gonna be wearing it the entire during whatever session he wears this for, or is it gonna come off?

[00:08:08] Jane: You know what? That's a really good question because I've never

[00:08:12] Etienne: 'Cause it, you could just lift it up. Like, you just

[00:08:14] Jane: I know, but then I don't know, like, is it itchy? Does it get in the way? See, and when you're reading

[00:08:21] Etienne: very nice wool, like the kind of wool that's on a suit, so it shouldn't be itchy I would imagine, but we'll

[00:08:25] Jane: Oh, I don't know. I think that means it would be itchy. Wool can be very itchy. To me, it's itchy. I have to have something between, like I have a wool sweater from Ireland that I love, especially if it's a little damp outside and you're like, all right, and you're cold.

[00:08:39] Jane: I put this thing on and it's like super, you know, Etty, 'cause I know that you have a big time cardigan thingy from Ireland, and they just make them for that. And, nothing's permeating that, you know. But I can't wear it on my bare skin. Like, I have something on underneath the sweater, and I have these lovely slacks I love.

[00:08:56] Jane: I need to have something in between. So I think I need to have the Jamie Fraser like, you know, fantasy without the itchy rash. So maybe it's just foreplay and then the kilt comes off. We'll see. But 

[00:09:08] Etienne: Hmmm 

[00:09:08] Jane: That's my top, top literary crush. I mean, I've had many over the years. I also like Henry from "The Time Traveler's Wife."

[00:09:15] Jane: It just, you know... But sometimes I'm swept away, the course of me reading the book, and it's very specific to the characters, and sometimes I'm just enjoying it for the characters, but I'm not like fantasizing then outside of the story, like I would like to... And that's where Outlander's different for me because I'm just like,

[00:09:35] Etienne: That one goes beyond the book, that one

[00:09:37] Jane: it has gone... I have had dreams about Jamie Fraser, 100%. And this is before the show, this was before the

[00:09:45] Etienne: Whoa, before

[00:09:46] Jane: I didn't know about... When I first started reading these books years ago, I think the show had just started after I was on book three I found out that there was a show.

[00:09:56] Jane: And I was like, "Oh." I'm like, "This is cool." I already was like, but I love this guy, man, you know? And so I was very happy that Sam Heughan lived up to, the portrayal of Jamie Fraser in the book. I was just like, okay, you deserve, you can play him. Because I have masturbatory fantasies about this character

[00:10:13] Heidi: Remember when they were casting for The Time Traveler's Wife and we were both like, "They better get this right." And they did with Eric Dana. Is that his name? Eric? 

[00:10:23] Etienne: Eric Bana. And you guys haven't seen the TV series yet, have you? 'Cause I- No. Oh, they have the g- oh, what is his name? The one who's in that one, english guy. Oh, of course it's English guy. But like, oh, sorry, I'll look up his name. But he's so hot, and they have a lot of sex in that too, because it's episodes, you know? It's not just one single movie.

[00:10:43] Jane: for the

[00:10:43] Etienne: Yeah, exactly.

[00:10:45] Heidi: Which streaming service is that on?

[00:10:47] Etienne: It was on HBO. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:50] Heidi: not... I've 

[00:10:50] Etienne: You, 

[00:10:51] Heidi: recently and it hasn't popped up on, you

[00:10:53] Etienne: Probably 'cause it's been out for a while now.

[00:10:56] Heidi: Yeah, I

[00:10:57] Etienne: You're behind. You're behind on this one. This one's been... I'm sorry, now my HBO's playing. I'm

[00:11:02] Heidi: No.

[00:11:03] Etienne: Sorry. Oh my God. I wanna tell you who it is. It's Theo James. He was from the Divergent series.

[00:11:10] Jane: I'm looking him up right now. I need to see, is he worthy of playing Henry? Okay. Okay. What have I seen him in before?

[00:11:17] Heidi: He's been on

[00:11:18] Etienne: but he was in the Divergent series for

[00:11:20] Jane: That's it. That's it. He was four, right?

[00:11:24] Etienne: Born in 1984.

[00:11:27] Jane: Wow. Okay

[00:11:28] Etienne: that in there. I hope it's still on HBO. That's originally where it was. It doesn't actually say on the actual webpage or on the IMDb page where it usually says. So sometimes they sell it or rent it out to other places. I've noticed that recently. But yeah, look for it on HBO. It's hot. It's really good. He walks around naked a lot. We already know that from the movie, and his body is amazing. So yeah, athletic 

[00:11:53] Heidi: Yeah, I'll definitely get on it

[00:11:55] Etienne: So good. Oh,

[00:11:56] Jane: But I mean, when we read that book, 'cause Heidi read it first and then I think let me borrow it. I think that's how that went down. And,

[00:12:03] Etienne: Were there sticky pages, Jane, when you got it from Heidi?

[00:12:08] Jane: But I definitely was just like, oh, I like, I love just the whole idea of it, and I definitely... But see, but that was one where, no, I did have a crush on him 100% because he was, you know, he was literary himself, right?

[00:12:20] Jane: The character was and I was like, oh, and he loves to, and he's so smart and he's so sexy, and he just loves going down on Claire a really long time. And I was just like, wow, like, this, yeah. I think that if there, the crushes get hotter and heavier as an adult when you're reading about characters actually having sex with each other.

[00:12:46] Jane: And, I'm trying to put it back to when I was younger and reading, like, who were my crushes then, and it was just like, really weird crushes, like, you know, like

[00:12:54] Etienne: like

[00:12:54] Jane: Justin from The Secret of NIMH, who is a fucking rat, not even a human, you know? But he was just so nice to Mrs. Frisby in

[00:13:03] Etienne: You had a crush on a rat.

[00:13:04] Heidi: Oh

[00:13:06] Jane: The Secret of NIMH. I did. And,

[00:13:09] Etienne: Jane.

[00:13:11] Heidi: The brother from The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. What was his name? I had a crush on him.

[00:13:16] Jane: who? The lion?

[00:13:16] Heidi: No, the, the boy

[00:13:18] Jane: Oh. 

[00:13:18] Etienne: old- was that the oldest boy? Or

[00:13:20] Jane: Peter? Peter or Edmund. Edmund was the one who went with the White Witch first, the younger one who loved Turkish delight. Okay, so the older one is Peter.

[00:13:28] Heidi: Yeah,

[00:13:28] Jane: Yeah. I can totally get behind that, but I did also have a crush on Aslan, which is makes... It was just super complicated, 'cause I know Aslan is also, like, a stand-in for Jesus, but, you know.

[00:13:38] Etienne: That's okay. You can have a crush on Jesus.

[00:13:40] Jane: I-

[00:13:42] Etienne: Or the stand-in for Jesus, yeah

[00:13:44] Jane: Well, because he sacrificed himself for everybody, and he was so loving and just taught everybody, and I was just like Aslan. I was just like, "I wanna..." You know, as a little girl, I was just like, "I would like to ride on Aslan with my fingers, like, deep in his mane," and just like, you know, I definitely had, like... It was pretty innocent, but kind of, you know, but I do remember.

[00:14:03] Etienne: riding on his back though, right? Is that what you're

[00:14:05] Jane: I, yes, I was, but, but

[00:14:08] Etienne: fingers in deep in his mane. Okay.

[00:14:10] Jane: Yes.

[00:14:11] Etienne: This sounds familiar.

[00:14:12] Jane: so did Susan in the book. So I was like, I just wanted to be Susan in the book. 

[00:14:18] Heidi: Oh, Peter Pan

[00:14:20] Etienne: Ooh, pe- 

[00:14:21] Jane: crush on Peter Pan?

[00:14:22] Heidi: I did

[00:14:23] Jane: But he didn't wanna grow. He was so immature.

[00:14:25] Heidi: I know, I 

[00:14:26] Etienne: Yeah. Oh, that's not a good one to have a crush on

[00:14:30] Jane: be Wendy? 

[00:14:31] Heidi: know. I wanted to be Wendy. I did.

[00:14:34] Etienne: Oh, see now that reminds me of, so Peter Pan comes to Wendy's house takes her away to Neverland.

[00:14:41] Jane: Like a vampire.

[00:14:42] Etienne: like, uh, see, you knew where I was going with this.

[00:14:45] Jane: they did

[00:14:47] Heidi: It's like

[00:14:48] Etienne: Vampire Lestat had my window open, remember? I had my

[00:14:51] Heidi: Oh, yes. Yes. 

[00:14:52] Etienne: hoping he would come and get me.

[00:14:55] Jane: Oh my gosh. There's like a recurring thing there, right?

[00:14:59] Etienne: Yeah. And

[00:15:00] Jane: so cool in real life

[00:15:01] Etienne: Yeah, no, it wouldn't be cool in

[00:15:02] Jane: Boys 

[00:15:03] Etienne: It's all 

[00:15:03] Jane: your window?

[00:15:04] Etienne: Come on now. Yeah, no. But now think about this. A lot of the really hot literary characters, modern, that we have crushes on, that a lot of women are having crushes on, and I'm one of them 'cause I'll talk about it.

[00:15:16] Etienne: Court of Thornes and Roses, the character of Rhys, or Rhysand I guess is his full name, and he is so fucking hot. And I love... It's kind of like a Mr. Darcy situation where he starts out where you think he's an awful person but fucking sexy still, and but, you know, awful, so you can't like him at first.

[00:15:36] Etienne: And then things change, and then you're like, now we get to experience her having sex with somebody who's been around for hundreds of years. And now I wanna have sex with a man who looks young but is actually really fucking old, so he knows what he's doing in bed, you know? Like that's, it's a recurring thing in all of these fantasy books that are out right now. The main characters, they've been around for hundreds of years, and they get involved with these women who have not been around for hundreds of years. So you can really put yourself in the lady's position and imagine what that would be like. And yeah, I've definitely had a good time reading those books. I'm just thinking I need to just restart them because they're that

[00:16:15] Jane: I'm writing this down as like

[00:16:17] Etienne: hot. Court of Thorns and Roses 

[00:16:20] Heidi: it in, on my Kindle. I just... So now I gotta, like, put that as number one

[00:16:25] Etienne: Yeah, and actually, so the first book is good, but the second book, woof, that is the one. The second book is the one you, you have to... I mean, I was hooked from the first one. I did not know what was coming. But yeah, the second book, woof. I 

[00:16:42] Heidi: That's where it really gets going

[00:16:43] Etienne: but I have to start, I have to start from this first one. I have to do it. I can't just go straight to number two. I will start with number one, but I'll be reading that quite quickly because I wanna get to the hot man. Like, I mean, there's a hot man in the first book, but this one is so much hotter, like beyond.

[00:17:01] Heidi: Hmm.

[00:17:03] Jane: think that some of those books are, I like it too, like the whole vampire thing and he's been around, but then I'm like, "Oh my gosh, so he's like 300 years old and this girl's like 18 or 17." Like this is problematic that I like this so much. but I don't know, I'm just like, try not to think about it so much. Just suspend your disbelief and just go with it and just 

[00:17:20] Etienne: but wait, remember now how much-- I'm telling you, it's all about sex though, because it's harder for men to be good at sex. It's so much easier for women to be good at sex. It's just the way that things are made, or how things fit together or how complicated we are as people and as sexual beings.

[00:17:36] Etienne: You know? It's a lot harder for us to feel comfortable, and somebody with the right technique or you know, you can't just be fumbling around, and somebody's not gonna fumble around if they've been around for hundreds of years, been having sex, you know.

[00:17:48] Jane: I know.

[00:17:50] Etienne: Sorry.

[00:17:51] Jane: So, okay, so another big literary crush of mine, 'cause now that we're talking about vampires and stuff, I'm thinking of like non-human, and I talked about the rat from The Secret of NIMH. 

[00:18:04] Jane: But I read a series called Magic Bites, the Kate Daniels books. I don't know if you guys have ever heard of these.

[00:18:09] Jane: They're like romance fantasy where it's a really cool near future, takes place mostly in Atlanta, and since I grew up there for junior high and high school, I was like, "All right, this is fun." And it's like there are shape-shifters. There's, there are vampires in the book too, and then there's humans, and then there are humans that can practice magic, and it is a battle in the near future.

[00:18:36] Jane: There sometimes technology just stops working, because there's these waves that come through the world where like magic is in control and then technology doesn't work, so sometimes people have to ride horses, and then there's real wizards, and then there's real shape-shifters that can turn into animals. So, it's the best of both worlds 'cause this dude is like a person, but he's also a lion. And he's like

[00:18:59] Etienne: lion again.

[00:19:00] Jane: That's why, 'cause when I was thinking about Aslan, I'm like, so this other lion crush I have is this lion who is this magical lion who lives in Atlanta, and he's like head of this whole pack of shape-shifters that all turn into different kinds of animals.

[00:19:14] Jane: So it's got some werewolves, but also other weird animals like that. And his name is Curran, and he and this woman, Kate, who's like a magic detective... this plot, it sounds so ridiculous. Like I'm say- I feel like I'm telling you about some weird

[00:19:28] Heidi: Wasn't gonna say anything, but

[00:19:31] Jane: I, it sounds so bizarre, but it is,

[00:19:35] Etienne: It's, it must work if 

[00:19:36] Jane: does. 

[00:19:36] Etienne: it.

[00:19:37] Heidi: Yes

[00:19:38] Jane: I lost so much sleep reading the entire Magic Bites series. I can't remember how many books there are 'cause I read them several years ago. 

[00:19:44] Etienne: Wait, so you read these as an adult? This wasn't...

[00:19:46] Jane: Oh, yes, I read

[00:19:47] Etienne: Oh, this was recently. I'm sorry.

[00:19:50] Jane: I read them like, I don't know, like seven years ago maybe.

[00:19:54] Etienne: Hmm

[00:19:55] Jane: And I read them like all at once, you know how that is when you just 

[00:19:58] Etienne: Why were these not recommended... Why did you not recommend these to us after you've

[00:20:02] Jane: I don't know. It's like a guilty pleasure. But yeah, "Magic Bites" was the first one, and then

[00:20:07] Heidi: Magic Bites. 

[00:20:08] Jane: Yep. Hot sex, and also, weird underbelly of a city being run by hordes of vampires, and then other people who want technology to win. Then there's, like, these covens of witches that are involved, too, and it just gets, um... I don't know. I loved them. They were fun. They weren't highbrow literary stuff, although they were well-written, 'cause I really can't... I have very low tolerance for hack bullshit stuff. They were well-written and fun, and I lost sleep. I was just like, "I need to find out what happens next."

[00:20:39] Jane: And they're written by, the couple is married or they're two people who write them together.

[00:20:44] Etienne: Oh, there's two authors?

[00:20:45] Jane: I think so. Hold on. Let me make... I'm gonna look it up so I'm not making it up. But I think it was, like, they, um, yep, husband and wife duo.

[00:20:54] Etienne: Nice

[00:20:55] Jane: and Gordon Andrews. And, the husband definitely, I'm looking at this now, writes all the point of view scenes for Curran, and I'm like, "Ooh, that's, that's fun." So Ilona Andrews is the name on the book. It's a pseudonym for,

[00:21:07] Etienne: Oh, for the both of them? Is

[00:21:08] Jane: for, yeah. Yep. And man, they're good. Oh my gosh, I'm just reading that there actually is a whole other group of books that's written from Curran's perspective because the books are mostly, I think, from Kate's perspective, who's the main character, Kate Daniels, who's a total badass. So if you like a female badass character who then gets this beast lord to fall in love with her. Anyway, it's just, like, crazy. And it's a slow burn situation. 

[00:21:33] Etienne: It's 

[00:21:33] Jane: I think that the... Okay,

[00:21:34] Etienne: come together, you're like, "Ah."

[00:21:36] Jane: yes, you're like, "Finally." You feel like you also came because you

[00:21:40] Etienne: Yeah, you're like, "I wa-"

[00:21:42] Heidi: It's "Finally." Oh, speaking of vampires and falling in love with vampires, you guys talking about it reminded me of the Sookie Stackhouse

[00:21:53] Etienne: Oh, lord. 

[00:21:55] Heidi: Yes, that True Blood was based off of. I read a lot of them, and yeah, Bill Compton, the vampire

[00:22:02] Etienne: See, I was, I want Eric. I want Eric. I mean, he turns out to be... And I did not read the book, so, forgive me. I only saw the series twice, multiple times, because he's so fucking hot. Come on. Aw.

[00:22:19] Heidi: There was a lot of hot ones. Yeah. Yep

[00:22:21] Etienne: And it's so nice going onto YouTube and listening to him speaking Swedish, because that is his native language, and holy shit.

[00:22:29] Jane: Oh,

[00:22:30] Etienne: Yes, because I know enough to, like, know what sounds good, and he sounds good in Swedish. Like, Jesus.

[00:22:37] Heidi: So I bet you like all the Sarsgard,

[00:22:40] Etienne: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:22:42] Heidi: and father

[00:22:43] Etienne: Well, no, I mean, I liked him too when he was... I mean, he's hot still. I mean, I would much rather have all of his sons, but

[00:22:49] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:22:50] Etienne: yeah.

[00:22:51] Heidi: All of his sons

[00:22:52] Etienne: could just have, yeah, we could just have, like, all of them at once. That would be nice. Oh my God.

[00:23:00] Heidi: My God

[00:23:01] Etienne: Oh. Oh, God, and what, I did wanna say one other thing about that character from A Court of Thorn and Roses. Um, the Rhys character, he starts out in the book as he's been held captive in this underground court for a while, and the woman who runs the court, he's been her sex slave for years, so he is, yes, he is her fucking whore. And you know, like, how much that resonates with me? So

[00:23:30] Heidi: dream job

[00:23:31] Etienne: like, "Can I please?"

[00:23:34] Heidi: Can I have that role?

[00:23:35] Etienne: But for him, can I 

[00:23:38] Heidi: That's exactly,

[00:23:39] Etienne: Oh my God, yes. Oh, yeah. So I hope I'm not giving too much away by saying that, but like...

[00:23:47] Jane: Wow

[00:23:47] Etienne: Yeah. Sorry, I just had to throw that in there real fast. Getting hot and bothered.

[00:23:52] Jane: Nice. You're like just thinking about it

[00:23:56] Etienne: Just thinking about it, things are happening. Oh Damn

[00:24:02] Jane: This Court of Thorns and Roses, I'm gonna have to take a look at that. I have that down, and now I have a couple others here, like, I'm writing down. And now I'm thinking, " Have some of these people that I used to love, like, have they written any more books?" 

[00:24:13] Jane: I know that I'm waiting on that last Outlander book.

[00:24:15] Jane: I know about that, obviously. Just, like, hurry up, Diana. Sorry. Um,

[00:24:20] Etienne: When's it supposed to come out? Do you know?

[00:24:22] Jane: no, nobody knows. It's like, it's one of those terrible situations where 

[00:24:27] Etienne: It's not 

[00:24:27] Jane: out of books when 

[00:24:28] Etienne: situations, is it? Where it's like for... No.

[00:24:31] Jane: Where

[00:24:31] Etienne: When w- when was the last one published?

[00:24:34] Jane: It's a couple years ago, it was like, Go Tell the Bees That I am Gone. I think that was, like, it's been, like, three years now.

[00:24:41] Jane: And so the series is gonna wrap with a different ending than the book, and so I just am not watching the last season. I need to read the book first and just know what the real ending is. You know what I mean? 'Cause to me, that's real. And then whatever they do with the TV show, I'll watch that later, I guess.

[00:24:58] Etienne: Okay. Yeah, no, that is the risk. That would be the right way to do it, of course. Has it veered much from... Has the TV show veered much from the books? Oh, it

[00:25:06] Jane: Yeah, it has. With different things, like some usual stuff, right? You have to have some composite characters so that you don't have too many side quests going on, 'cause the books are like 1,200 pages long, and there's been nine of them so far. So they started consolidating some things.

[00:25:21] Jane: 'Cause the first three seasons were, like, books one, two, and three, like pretty close to it, and then it's started going a little bit off the rails there. Like, there was a character who was supposed to die that they kept alive for a couple of seasons 'cause people loved him, and I'm like, "He is not supposed to be here. This man is dead." I mean, and it was, like, a character I loved, you know, but,

[00:25:41] Etienne: Yeah, I think I know who you're talking about. Like, yeah.

[00:25:43] Jane: yeah. He wasn't someone I had a crush on. Although I found him sexy, I was just like, I still... Give me Jaime. But yeah, so now I'm, I have a couple... Thank you, ladies. I have a couple of books I need to read now

[00:25:56] Heidi: Same

[00:25:56] Etienne: I know

[00:25:58] Heidi: Magic Bites? Hmm

[00:26:00] Etienne: bites. That's really good. Damn

[00:26:03] Jane: Do all of our... 

[00:26:04] Jane: Okay, I think every crush that each of us have mentioned, there was something I think in the book except for like Darcy.

[00:26:10] Etienne: Well, actually, I would've said Mr. Darcy. Definitely. That's the epitome of, for me, of like, if I could go back in time and be Elizabeth, yes, 100%. Like, if this was a real thing, because, I mean, he's just perfect, you know? I mean, perfect in a not perfect way, you know?

[00:26:27] Etienne: He's a real ... He seems real, you know? Because he's not 100% like the best guy in the beginning or makes fun of her, whatever you wanna say, or his pride. Sorry, yes, his pride and his prejudice, right? 

[00:26:38] Jane: There you go

[00:26:40] Etienne: But yeah, that's one of my favorite movies, the one with Keira Knightley, and, uh...

[00:26:45] Jane: Oh, that 

[00:26:47] Etienne: can't think of his name. He's so hot. Like that last scene, oh, fucking hell, when

[00:26:50] Jane: And he's just walking with the, and the coat's just billowing.

[00:26:54] Etienne: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:55] Jane: Okay, but have any of us had a literary crush?

[00:26:58] Etienne: Mm-hmm. That way

[00:26:59] Jane: For a book that was concur- like contemporaneous in terms of to our own time, where the character is mortal, age appropriate, can't shape-shift or time travel, um

[00:27:14] Heidi: The Hardy Boys

[00:27:15] Etienne: Oh you had a crush on the Hardy Boys? Oh, wow.

[00:27:19] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:27:20] Etienne: read the Hardy Boys

[00:27:22] Heidi: Also, I wanted to ask you all is there any literary crush that you kind of feel ashamed about now? 'Cause mine would be Rhett Butler from Gone With the Wind. I was obsessed with that movie and the book. I read the sequel, Scarlett, and yeah, it's so problematic now. I'm just kind of... It was definitely a guilty pleasure, I guess. But yeah, Rhett Butler.

[00:27:47] Jane: Edward

[00:27:48] Etienne: Yeah, Edward Cullen.

[00:27:49] Jane: husband gives me so... He throws so much shade on Edward Cullen. He's just like, "Team Jacob." And I was like, "You weren't there. You didn't read the books. You just saw the 

[00:27:57] Etienne: We weren't

[00:27:58] Jane: You weren't up at, like, 2:00 in the morning, and he's watching you sleep, and you're just like, 'Ooh,' and you are Bella," you know? But I get it. Like, and Bella's all whiny, like, "Don't ever leave me again," and, and you're just like, "Ugh.

[00:28:11] Etienne: grow a backbone, yeah. Like

[00:28:13] Jane: I know. I know."

[00:28:15] Etienne: be your own complete person like now, you know? Yeah

[00:28:19] Jane: I know. That's why I'm saying I'm ashamed

[00:28:21] Etienne: Well, I'm ashamed of, I mean, you know, the books are not literary classics. Fifty Shades of Gray, I'm sorry. I, just m- you know, I didn't have actual pages in a book, thank God, or they would've been stuck together. No joke. They were on my my e-reader, so I just had to have one clean finger. Sometimes I use my nose

[00:28:46] Heidi: Oh my God

[00:28:47] Etienne: to change the page. You can

[00:28:48] Jane: Oh, for the book. Oh my God, for

[00:28:50] Etienne: your nose. You just need skin. You just need skin to change the page

[00:28:54] Jane: So you would, you could be like swiping with your nose so you could still...

[00:28:59] Etienne: Swiping

[00:28:59] Heidi: Have your hands

[00:29:00] Etienne: You have my hands free. Yeah.

[00:29:02] Heidi: Gotcha. 

[00:29:03] Jane: That is hilarious. 

[00:29:05] Etienne: Yeah, and that's when I was still married, so like, you know, I was rubbing him out fast too, because I didn't want to get caught masturbating by my husband who didn't really wanna have sex with me. So yeah, I'd quickly like, mm-hmm, when I knew he was busy downstairs, I would just like, just, you know, if he was busy in his office, like af- when he shouldn't still be working but he was, I would totally sneak upstairs and pull out my book and go as fast as I could. Like it was a chore, but I

[00:29:33] Jane: Wow. Like it was

[00:29:35] Etienne: Like it was a chore I had to check off, yep.

[00:29:38] Heidi: Wow

[00:29:39] Etienne: Yeah. But yeah, that's what got my sexuality woken up again, was fucking Fifty Shades of Grey. I know. Like that just seems a little bit wrong, but it was. 

[00:29:49] Jane: No, I can understand that

[00:29:50] Heidi: Well, I mean, wasn't he based on Edward

[00:29:53] Etienne: Yeah, he was.

[00:29:55] Heidi: fan fiction that they turned into, yeah, Christian Grey 

[00:29:59] Jane: That's right. There is a through line from

[00:30:02] Etienne: still based on somebody immortal, yeah. And, technically not age-appropriate for me at the time 'cause I was in my 40s and his character's in his like 20s. So, you know, I mean, yes, I did have sex with people that age when I was in my 40s, but yeah, technically still not age-appropriate.

[00:30:20] Etienne: So, yeah, I didn't have age-appropriate crushes on literary figures even when I was little 'cause there was a book called, and I still have copies of it, that was one of my favorite books as a kid or young adult, Dragonwyck by Anya Seton. And the main male character is married and kind of along the lines of you would imagine, oh gosh, what is the name of the book?

[00:30:41] Etienne: Where there's a governess and the wife is locked away in the attic, and she falls in love with... That's it. It's like a Jane Eyre. It's like a modern-day Jane Eyre. So there's like, yeah, there's a nanny and yeah, there's obvious sexual tension between the nanny and the husband.

[00:30:56] Etienne: And yeah, I actually don't even remember if they get together or if it's just unrequited personally 'cause that was a long time ago when I last read it. But I read it every year for years. I was obsessed with that book. So I should have it just written on my brain and it's not. But yeah, not age-appropriate at all 'cause I had to be like 13 or 12 when I first read that book and I was obsessed. 

[00:31:16] Etienne: Yeah. And he would be a grown man. Had to be like, I'm assuming the character of him in that book had to be in his at least early 30s or mid-30s. So definitely not appropriate. I feel like I've never had appropriate crushes.

[00:31:28] Jane: No, I'm thinking, like I had a crush on Jay Gatsby, reading The Great Gatsby, and he's definitely problematic. I mean, he's a little bit of a stalker. Like he's, "I'm gonna buy this house and impress her," and just like Dude, get it together. Like she's kind of a shallow bitch. Like everybody in that book is just like...

[00:31:47] Jane: I mean, honestly, even Nick Carraway. I think my problem with some of my literary crushes that happened when I was kind of coming of age is that was when I was also really writing a lot, right? So if the writing was beautiful, right? Like I think it definitely colored the way that I saw the characters, and The Great Gatsby is written, to me, so, so beautifully. It's so goddamn beautiful that I just 

[00:32:14] Etienne: by F- F. Scott Fitzgerald is fucking fantastic. I mean, the, the writing is so impeccably gorgeous

[00:32:21] Heidi: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:21] Jane: like there so in awe of the words that I'm also like, and then there's people that are being made with these words. And I'm just like, and he's wearing a white suit and looking at that light at the end of that dock, and it's like, "I'm right here, Jay." You know, it's just like stupid, stupid stuff. And I felt a little bad for him. I felt bad. And he was like, you know, came from humble beginnings. He's trying to get her attention. It just didn't work out.

[00:32:42] Etienne: Yeah

[00:32:43] Jane: And I didn't have a crush on Nick Carraway at all. I thought Nick Carraway is a bit of a pussy and a prude, and I was just like, "Whatever with this guy. Get on with the story." Like, "More Jay, more Jay." So

[00:32:56] Etienne: Does that mean you appreciated Leonardo DiCaprio as Jay Gatsby then?

[00:33:00] Jane: I never saw that version

[00:33:02] Etienne: Yeah, I did, but he didn't do it for me anymore. Like, you know, not in that way.

[00:33:08] Heidi: He's never done it for

[00:33:09] Jane: W- 

[00:33:09] Etienne: Did he not do it for you for Titanic? Come on. Or, or Romeo and Juliet?

[00:33:13] Jane: and Juliet, 1996. Hello.

[00:33:15] Etienne: Oh my God, he was beautiful.

[00:33:18] Jane: Yeah

[00:33:18] Etienne: That

[00:33:19] Heidi: don't know. He's never done it for me

[00:33:21] Etienne: Oh, wow. We're all too old for him anyway.

[00:33:25] Jane: You know, I

[00:33:26] Etienne: Even though he's younger than us.

[00:33:28] Jane: had a crush on Hamlet. Hamlet is still my favorite Shakespeare

[00:33:31] Etienne: I was gonna ask you if you had a Shakespeare crush. Oh

[00:33:33] Jane: Yeah, definitely Hamlet, even though I know he's just so messed up and yeah, and you know, there's some problematic stuff there with his mom maybe, depending upon your interpretation of certain scenes and, you know, he definitely fucks with Ophelia's head, and that's not very nice.

[00:33:51] Jane: But he's just really obsessed with revenge. But there was just something, it's deep and dark and brooding and poetic and he's lonely. Let me help him. You know, just so, yeah, I definitely had a thing for,

[00:34:04] Etienne: Well, it's so easy to fall for the troubled ones, especially in the literary field or literary medium. How about that? In the written word, because we don't actually have to engage with them in the real world.

[00:34:16] Jane: Yeah, I don't have to deal with him. I'm like, "Get over it, Hamlet. Come on." Like, "Let's move on. Let's get some therapy," you know? But, but again, that was also because it's so beautiful. I was just in love with the words, you know? And then he would just be saying just beautiful things. Even when he was messing with Ophelia, it was just said so beautifully, you know? And when she's just coming to him with like, "I have this love letter that you wrote." And he was just like, " I never said these things. I never wrote..." And she's just like, "Right, well, you did, Lord." And he's just like, "No," just messing with her, and I don't know.

[00:34:47] Etienne: Hmm.

[00:34:48] Jane: I'm of the mind where he's just pretending to be crazy. I know scholars differ, so he's, yeah, problematic, but still hot. Like what?

[00:34:57] Etienne: Wait, so you really think he was pretending to be crazy? That he wasn't actually crazy?

[00:35:01] Jane: I do think he was pretending to be crazy. I think that, that's another podcast. But that's another episode. I don't know. 'Cause let me talk about it for half an hour, and I'll probably convince myself of the opposite argument, so it depends on... But think that that's kind of like where I landed as an adult, you know?

[00:35:18] Etienne: Hmm, man

[00:35:19] Jane: Do you have a Shakespeare crush? Do either of

[00:35:21] Heidi: Yeah. Uh, well, mine would probably would've been like Romeo, 'cause it's just, you know

[00:35:27] Jane: See, another one sneaking in your window at night. What the fuck is wrong with us? Like, what is...

[00:35:32] Etienne: We like that. We like the idea of somebody being obsessed with us. Like, I mean, isn't that when you're young, like that's your ultimate fantasy of there's a man, he's obsessed with me. He shouldn't be, but he is, and he must have me, and okay, he's really hot, so yes, let's go do this. Like, you know?

[00:35:52] Jane: It's so sad. I had people obsessed with me in real life, and I was never, like, obsessed by... Like, it was never the person that I wanted to be obsessed with me. My dad would be like, "There's a guy playing the guitar on the front lawn." And I was like, "I know," but he wasn't who I wanted to be playing the guitar on my front lawn. You know what I

[00:36:08] Etienne: Oh, no.

[00:36:09] Jane: know. And I had

[00:36:11] Heidi: It, real life is not as cool

[00:36:14] Etienne: No. Real life never lives up to the fantasy.

[00:36:17] Jane: I know. I wish it were, like, you know, I wish it were Edward Cullen, but it 

[00:36:23] Etienne: Standing in my bedroom watching me sleep?

[00:36:26] Heidi: I just remembered Peeta from Hunger Games too, the baker's son.

[00:36:31] Etienne: Oh.

[00:36:32] Jane: See, I

[00:36:32] Heidi: crush

[00:36:33] Etienne: I like the other guy. Right? Wasn't there another guy? Yeah

[00:36:37] Jane: was his name? J- J- no Is it J- Jay? Jade? Gabe? What the fuck was the other guy's name?

[00:36:45] Etienne: Hmm

[00:36:46] Jane: Peeta and...

[00:36:48] Heidi: Oh, Gale?

[00:36:49] Jane: Gale. I was like 

[00:36:50] Heidi: Yeah. Gale, yeah, I liked them both, but I just really like Peeta 'cause, aw.

[00:36:57] Jane: Well, he was kinder. I get it. I was rooting for Gail though in the early stages of the book. I was like, they go hunting together, he knows where she comes from, you know. Uh,

[00:37:05] Heidi: Yeah

[00:37:05] Jane: I don't know, it's complicated. It's always complicated, right? But again, I think that the reason why it's easier to just confess these literary crushes is, like Etty made a good point of like we don't have to actually deal with their shit in real life, you know.

[00:37:20] Jane: Like I made a joke about how my husband has some of Jamie Fraser's proclivities, 'cause my husband does sometimes have a temper about things and I'm like, "That, really?" But it's not anywhere near Jamie Fraser level or we would not be married. Like, you know, but, I, you know, he's not...

[00:37:37] Jane: But if somebody is, spoiler alert, just if you haven't read all the "Outlander" books and you want to, I do think that my husband would be like Jamie where I won't spoil exactly what happens, but someone wrongs Claire, in a serious way, and there's like a group of men all together and he can't tell which one it was, so he's just like kill them all.

[00:37:56] Jane: And that would completely and utterly be my husband. I know that he would be like that. He would be like, " You can't figure out who it is? Kill them all." B- because it's just a thought, because I've seen how my husband has gotten where like, you know, somebody has wronged me, and it is not pretty and I would never wanna be on the receiving end of that.

[00:38:14] Jane: So, and I think that, is this like some cavewoman shit where I'm actually almost getting excited thinking about like how my husband would be willing to kill for me? I'm like, "That's right. That's so hot." I'm like I don't want him to club me over the head and drag me by my hair back to the cave, but just knowing that he would 100% have my back in like the most serious way you could have somebody's back is hot

[00:38:35] Heidi: Yeah 

[00:38:36] Etienne: So how's

[00:38:36] Jane: It's a protector shit, you know. This is why we all really, if every woman is being honest out there, most of us want a man who's taller than us and that's why. We just want you to know that in the dark alley we're not like, "Do you got this?" We need to, I mean, this is so not feminist but I'm sorry, like I can't hang on my own in a dark alley with a bunch of brutes. Like I definitely need some help. I need some backup

[00:38:58] Etienne: Oh, I want Rhys from A Court of Thorns and Roses. He can kill them all.

[00:39:03] Jane: Yes. So does he have the brute force to do it? I

[00:39:06] Etienne: Yes, he does. He has lots of powers and he has wings. He 

[00:39:10] Jane: Oh 

[00:39:13] Etienne: He has, he has these wings. Yes. Oh my 

[00:39:16] Jane: book tonight 

[00:39:18] Heidi: Yes, same. I think I actually have it already lined up, so I just gotta, like, put it number one on the list.

[00:39:27] Etienne: I know.

[00:39:28] Heidi: You 

[00:39:28] Etienne: just gonna buy the whole fucking series tonight. 'Cause I got them all from the library and just read them so fast. But now I'm gonna make the investment. We're gonna get the whole series.

[00:39:38] Jane: Wow

[00:39:39] Etienne: Oh my God, yes.

[00:39:41] Jane: Dun, dun, dun

[00:39:43] Etienne: I need it now. 

[00:39:44] Heidi: And I'm gonna start on The Time Traveler's Wife on HBO

[00:39:48] Etienne: yeah. 

[00:39:49] Heidi: too. Double. Double

[00:39:51] Etienne: Are you... Wait, were you gonna ask what the first book of, uh, Court of Thorns and Roses is, Jane? 'Cause I'm pretty sure it is A Court of Thorns and Roses. Sorry. I'm pretty sure that's the first book is, yeah. I'm pretty sure,

[00:40:02] Heidi: a series that, yeah

[00:40:04] Etienne: Yeah, yeah. But I was gonna check HBO real quick to see if, uh, Time Traveler's Wife is on here, because it should be, and I would be so sad if it's not here anymore, or where the hell did it go? But we can easily find this. The Time Traveler's Wife. I am... You know, it's not popping up. Why is it not? Maybe it really isn't on here anymore. It's not popping up on here. So it definitely was on here at some point. I can ask Google.

[00:40:31] Jane: We

[00:40:31] Etienne: What streaming service is the series The Time Traveler's Wife on?

[00:40:34] Etienne: There we go. Let's find out. It says HBO, and was removed from Max formerly, and currently not available for streaming on a major subscription service. What? No.

[00:40:44] Heidi: What? Why would they take it off

[00:40:46] Etienne: don't It has to be purchased or rented. Oh, my

[00:40:50] Heidi: it came out in 2022

[00:40:53] Etienne: it's been four years. What the fuck?

[00:40:56] Heidi: Why would they take it off?

[00:40:58] Etienne: Can rent it or buy it on Amazon or Apple TV. Oh, my God.

[00:41:01] Heidi: Why would they take

[00:41:03] Jane: Might be 

[00:41:03] Etienne: don't know, but they did that with "Westworld," y'all. I was trying to watch the first season of "Westworld" again, and they took it off HBO. It's the same thing. 

[00:41:11] Heidi: It's one of my pet peeves. Like, why would they... They already have it. Like, why not let your subscribers watch it? Like, you already own it. You produced it. Why would you take away options?

[00:41:24] Jane: they're figuring out how to make more money with it

[00:41:26] Etienne: Yeah, there's gotta be. Like, they take it off for a bit and then they can sell it to something else, you know? There's

[00:41:30] Jane: And if someone else doesn't want to pay the, like the subsidiary rights, then they're like, "All right, then we'll do it like on a rental

[00:41:37] Etienne: Yeah

[00:41:38] Jane: and someone's gonna do it. Someone will get hooked and then they're, "I gotta rent all these things." Cause that's what I'm probably gonna do 

[00:41:43] Etienne: And yeah, the female in the TV show is played by Rose Leslie from Game of 

[00:41:48] Heidi: Yeah, Yeah, I love her

[00:41:50] Etienne: Yeah. See, you guys. I mean, you could rent it, but ... Or you can just wait till it comes back somewhere. It'll come back. 

[00:41:57] Heidi: I guess.

[00:41:58] Etienne: it

[00:41:59] Jane: just literally bought book one of A Court of Thorns and Roses. I did. So,

[00:42:06] Etienne: You're gonna be watching for that name 'cause

[00:42:09] Jane: It's 

[00:42:09] Etienne: gonna show up later. He's gonna show up later in that book, yeah.

[00:42:13] Jane: I'm excited because I needed a new fiction read 'cause I just finished a book called Fool by Christopher Moore, who actually, that was, um... I kind of had a crush on the fool, his name was Pocket, and it was a retelling of King Lear.

[00:42:31] Etienne: Oh, okay. Oh, I have not read this one. Okay

[00:42:34] Jane: from Lear's fool's perspective,

[00:42:37] Etienne: Okay

[00:42:38] Jane: and it is hilarious and heartbreaking, and there's a lot of sex in it also. And, it's just an interesting perspective on that story. And if you've never read anything by Christopher Moore, listeners out there, he is a freaking genius.

[00:42:54] Jane: He, I mean, he's so fu- Like, I... It's really hard, I think, to write something that's so clever and so funny that you're laughing out loud in a room by yourself, and he's somebody who's been able to do that for me for every book by him that I've read, and I've read a bunch of his books, and e- and all of them are just brilliant. He is brilliant. Anyway,

[00:43:16] Etienne: What's the one? Is it The World According to Biff? Uh, Jesus's,

[00:43:19] Jane: my God, Jesus, his childhood pal. Ah.

[00:43:23] Etienne: Good. It's so... I was reading that, I remember I was reading part of that when I was waiting in a waiting room to go to a medical appointment, and I burst out laughing a few times. I was just like, "This is

[00:43:33] Jane: It's so great. And see, that's another book that depicted Jesus in a way that made me have a little crush. I had a little crush on Jesus in that book

[00:43:41] Etienne: I mean, I, if, if I'm gonna get so canceled. I can't, I can't say it. I mean, if Jesus was really like, you know, they say he was, I'd, I'd totally have a crush on real Jesus. Like, that would be so

[00:43:57] Jane: you're kind, you're altruistic, you're trying to, like, help people be better, and you have abs for days. Like, 

[00:44:03] Etienne: Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 100%.

[00:44:06] Jane: Well, that's not why he was here, so you know. But all those nuns, man. Can all those nuns be wrong? I mean,

[00:44:13] Etienne: They're all 

[00:44:13] Heidi: No, they're all married

[00:44:17] Jane: Yes. 

[00:44:17] Etienne: got a lot of wives.

[00:44:19] Jane: I think we're okay with not getting canceled 'cause I really don't think that our core target audience is like, it's about Catholics who are gonna take offense to saying that we think that Jesus was an amazing person, that we would have a crush on. Like I said, we're not getting explicit here,

[00:44:35] Etienne: No, we're not

[00:44:36] Jane: So I think that that's it. That's the ultimate literary crush is Jesus. Shall we end there? Let's see. I mean, it doesn't really get any better than that crush. 

[00:44:47] Heidi: And that's our show. You've been listening to The Women Are Plotting. If you have a story you'd like to share or have any comments, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com. And of course, you can find us on all the socials. Thanks, and until next time, be safe and be excellent to each other