Stop Armchair Diagnosing: When TikTok Therapy Goes Too Far

Has social media made us more aware of mental health—or has it made us too quick to diagnose ourselves and everyone around us?

In this thought-provoking episode of The Women Are Plotting, Etienne Rose Olivier, Heidi Willis, and Jane Gari explore the growing trend of armchair diagnosing, self-diagnosis, and the explosion of mental health content on platforms like TikTok and Instagram. They discuss the fine line between recognizing legitimate symptoms and assigning labels without professional evaluation, along with the risks of misinformation, confirmation bias, and using diagnoses as excuses instead of tools for growth.

The hosts share personal experiences with ADHD, OCD, therapy, autism spectrum traits, and the challenges of navigating relationships with neurodivergent friends, family members, and partners. They also examine how social media has helped some people seek life-changing treatment while simultaneously spreading misleading information that can trivialize serious mental health conditions.

Filled with humor, compassion, and honest conversation, this episode encourages listeners to approach mental health with curiosity instead of certainty, seek professional guidance when needed, and remember that a diagnosis should be the beginning of healing—not the end of personal responsibility.

Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com, and find us on all the socials. Be safe and be excellent to each other.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Jane: And then I could just speak bluntly to them and say, "Hey, everybody at the table right now is having a conversation about our favorite classes we took while we were in college, and a song came on the radio that you know, but nobody's really paying attention to it 'cause it's in the background, and you just derailed the entire evening to be like, 'This song came out in 1967, and the Bee Gees sang it, and it came out on their "Idea" album, and it was number five on the Billboard chart.'"

[00:00:26] Jane: And I'm like, "What the fuck, Rainman? Nobody was like, needed this information right now because we're all having a conversation about something else." So you know what I mean? So there's like a lack of reading the social cue, and it becomes intrusive in a way where it's rude now. 'Cause now we're never getting back to the conversation that we had because now this person wants to talk about that and then holds you hostage to that topic against your will for how- until they're done, until they're done. 

[00:00:54] Etienne: Welcome listeners. This is Women Are Plotting. I'm Etienne Rose Olivier, and I'm here with my friends and co-hosts, Heidi Willis and Jane Gari

[00:01:09] Etienne: On today's episode 

[00:01:10] Etienne: we're gonna be talking about how we need to stop armchair diagnosing people. And when we're speaking about armchair diagnosing, we're not talking about just straight up medical health problems, we're talking about mental problems. So, my interesting-- I'm just gonna skip the fun part 'cause it's an interesting fact for today

[00:01:28] Etienne: is I did Google what's the worst that could happen from armchair diagnosing somebody with a mental problem? Literally, that was when I put into Google, and it c- came back with a bunch of stuff. But my favorite one, in case you guys are gonna do this too, is self-fulfilling prophecies. So repeatedly telling someone they have a disorder can make them internalize the label, alter their behavior to fit the stereotype, and feel hopeless about improving. So that is really sad. Yeah

[00:01:56] Heidi: They're manifesting it for them then

[00:01:58] Etienne: Exactly, yeah. And it's because somebody put it on them

[00:02:02] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah

[00:02:03] Etienne: because they came up with themself, you know? That is super sad. We'll talk about more of that later, but I have thoughts about that. But Jane, I think you were gonna tell us a fun or interesting...

[00:02:14] Etienne: I mean, there can't be a fun fact for today, but if there is, that would be super... Yeah.

[00:02:17] Jane: It's interesting. But it's from a 2025 survey from LifeStance Health, and it found that 29% of Americans have self-diagnosed a mental health condition from online content. And I'm like, "Yeah, guilty as charged." And among Gen Z, it jumps to 50%. So

[00:02:36] Etienne: 50%?

[00:02:37] Jane: 50% of Gen Z have self-diagnosed.

[00:02:40] Jane: So, unlike what you were talking about of giving someone, telling them like, "Hey, you have this," and now they take it on. This is somebody like myself who has OCD, for real, not the kind people pretend they have, but they have the real kind, will sit there and WebMD themselves into a diagnosis.

[00:02:54] Jane: And so some, almost a third of Americans have self-diagnosed a mental health condition from reading online content, and then among Gen Z, 50%. So somewhere some psychiatrists are screaming into a pillow, but

[00:03:07] Etienne: I wonder if any of those people, I wish it would go a step further and say, did any of those people then go to a mental health professional and find out if they were correct in their guessing?

[00:03:19] Jane: I will look back into that survey and circle back and see if there was anything

[00:03:25] Etienne: I bet you it doesn't say that. There's no way.

[00:03:27] Jane: The title of the survey was just, "LifeStance Survey Finds Nearly One-Third of Americans Use Social Media Content to Self-Diagnose Mental Health Conditions." That's a mouthful, but that's the name of the article.

[00:03:37] Jane: Um, oh, oh, wait a second. Nope, I see it, the follow-up. Less than half of the respondents in that survey consistently seek professional guidance for those self-diagnosed conditions. Wow, okay, so

[00:03:49] Heidi: They just want the label and the excuse

[00:03:52] Jane: And less than

[00:03:53] Etienne: Okay. Yeah, maybe

[00:03:54] Jane: then seek professional guidance 

[00:03:56] Heidi: Oh, I behave badly because I have BPD. Yeah. 

[00:04:01] Jane: then don't actually go then

[00:04:03] Heidi: it gives... 

[00:04:03] Jane: for how do you remediate these things.

[00:04:05] Heidi: Yeah. 

[00:04:06] Jane: Boo, we don't like that. All right, Heidi, do you have a fun fact?

[00:04:09] Etienne: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:10] Heidi: So mine piggybacks off of that. There was an article about armchair diagnosing, and there's two different studies, right? They are analysis of the 100 most popular ADHD videos on TikTok. Psychologists from the University of British Columbia in Canada found that fewer than half the claims about symptoms were robust or accurately reflected clinical guidelines. 

[00:04:37] Etienne: Oh my God. 

[00:04:38] Heidi: And then they classed two-thirds of the ADHD-related statements as normal human experiences And, what's wild about all this, so have ADHD. I was late diagnosed at age 30, but then, kind of forgot I had it. It wasn't really bothering me too bad, and it ramped up in perimenopause. And it was TikTok, and it was people's TikTok videos that got me to realize, oh, all these issues I'm having is 'cause of ADHD. So that's what led me to seek out different kinds of medications, and

[00:05:14] Etienne: Mm-hmm 

[00:05:14] Heidi: it changed my life. So yeah, TikTok can be a good thing and a bad thing. But, also in a different journal, the science journal Drugs, Addictions, and Health found that of the 100 TikTok videos that they analyzed for autism spectrum disorder, 24% were classed as useful compared to 40% that were deemed misleading. And then out of the 100, only 14% were posted by healthcare professionals. 

[00:05:42] Etienne: Oh my God. 

[00:05:43] Heidi: So yeah. So just... I would suggest, if you're getting your info from TikTok or YouTube or Instagram or whatever, get with a professional.

[00:05:53] Etienne: Yeah 

[00:05:53] Heidi: You know? Like, don't just diagnose yourself and tell all your friends and family that you have some kind of condition and that explains all your bad behavior and...

[00:06:03] Etienne: Oh. Yeah, that's, that's funny because, doing what? Sorry. I was gonna let you go, Jane

[00:06:08] Jane: yeah, well, it takes away from people who actually have it. It's a two-prong thing. From folks who actually have a condition and who are struggling with it, and when a lot of people start doing that armchair diagnosing of themselves.

[00:06:20] Jane: And I say this as someone with OCD, when people are like, "Oh, I need to have all my napkins lined up, I'm so OCD," and they'll use it as an adjective. And I just wanna punch them in the face because, they don't really understand what it is, and they're making it some cutesy thing.

[00:06:34] Jane: But then the flip side of that is if you legit have one of these things, you have a disorder, and then you don't seek out follow-up care, then you're not getting the tools that you need to actually cope with what's happening with you. So, good advice, Heidi. Let's just not do that. Follow up. Awareness is

[00:06:52] Etienne: yeah, follow up, yeah. Well, and I also feel like, 

[00:06:55] Etienne: I have this theory, I don't know if it's true. I did ask a psychiatry resident, though, so somebody who actually is studying psychiatry. I said, "Do you think it's true that if you have a mental disorder that you're not seeking therapy for, is that going to snowball over time and become a bigger and bigger and bigger problem and hurdle that you have to overcome with time?"

[00:07:19] Etienne: And he totally agreed with me, so I felt very validated. Because that's what I thought about with my mother, because she's went to therapists, but she obviously was just paying somebody to sit there and just nod their head and agree with her, because nothing changed, as far as how she dealt with the world, and she was obviously getting crazier over time.

[00:07:34] Etienne: So I just felt like, if you have this mental problem that you're not dealing with, it could start out as a little pebble on top of a snowy mountain, like in the Swiss Alps. And it just slowly goes down the hill and as it goes down this mountain in the swiss Alps, it just becomes bigger and bigger and bigger until it fucking just destroys the town at the bottom of the hill. 

[00:07:55] Etienne: And that's how I thought my mom was. I mean, when she was in the hospital, the nurses wanted her to die. Like, that's how bad somebody can be, as far as how bad your mental health can get. And when I was little, all of my friends thought my mom was the greatest mom ever. So there's, there's the dichotomy there.

[00:08:11] Etienne: From her being in her 30s to her being in her 60s when she died. So you give her 30 years, and she becomes somebody that people actively would like to just not be a part of this world anymore. So yeah. But we're supposed to be talking about armchair diagnosing. But I was gonna say about the thing that I talked about, the self-fulfilling prophecy and how you can tell somebody that they have a disorder when you don't actually know that they have one or not.

[00:08:34] Etienne: I don't feel like I've ever come right out and told somebody that they had a disorder that they didn't know about. It's just something that I diagnose them in my head, and in that way it's like I can figure out how to deal with them as a person because I obviously have seen some kind of red flags or warning signs about how somebody behaves and how it looks a lot like how this other person behaved that I had to deal with for a very long time, and how I dealt with them until I didn't have to deal with them anymore.

[00:09:03] Etienne: Kind of like a coping mechanism for relationships, you know? But I could never see myself being the full-on, like, "You've got this," you know? When I don't even know if they have it. I could suspect something. I could suggest they go to a therapist. But yeah. I think, when we were first talking about doing this as an episode, that there's a lot of going around calling people on the spectrum, saying they're on the spectrum, and I do that as a joke, and, I have a feeling all of the people that I've said this about behind their backs, that they would probably agree that they're probably on the spectrum a little bit.

[00:09:41] Etienne: And I love it, though, like, there's been some people recently who've come right out and told me that they think that they are somewhat autistic because of how they can't pick up on social cues or s- this one guy that I'm actually gonna be seeing tomorrow, he said, "No, you have to come right out and tell me things.

[00:09:58] Etienne: I am not gonna be able to just guess from you how you're thinking or feeling or what you want. Like, you have to tell me, and don't, 

[00:10:07] Heidi: Yeah, you gotta be 

[00:10:07] Etienne: tell me." Yeah, I have to be straight up literal. So it's been kinda refreshing, like, when I've been texting him. I'm just coming right out and saying, "Okay, you're right. We didn't discuss that. Would you like to discuss boundaries before or should we discuss boundaries right before? Like, right now on text or do we wanna do it in person?" That sort of thing, 'cause he's gonna be tying me up tomorrow

[00:10:26] Jane: Oh, wow. Yes, you have to have the boundaries set

[00:10:28] Etienne: experience, yes. Yes, we do. We have to have boundaries set 

[00:10:33] Jane: Yeah, you can't be 

[00:10:34] Etienne: No. No, no. It has to be fully laid out, and he was like, " are we doing this at my place or yours? We didn't figure that out." And I'm like, " I'm fine either way. You're the one that has to bring the rope, so I think, I don't what do you wanna do?" I said, "I can send you pictures of my bed."

[00:10:52] Jane: I was making

[00:10:53] Etienne: I totally sent him pictures of my bed. Yeah, the logistics in my... He's like, "Oh my God, yes, your bed. Let's do your bed." And I'm like, "Okay." He's like, "What, what kind of frame is that?" I'm like, "I didn't seriously take a picture of the frame so he could see."

[00:11:09] Jane: Dude, he's gonna come and do some kind of nautical

[00:11:11] Etienne: like where it's gonna attach to. 

[00:11:12] Jane: He's gonna sit there and be like Boy Scout badge worthy 

[00:11:16] Etienne: looks like? It's... No, I mean, this is

[00:11:18] Heidi: pictures of It It looks, yeah, it's really beautiful when people get it all done up. It, yeah, it's cool

[00:11:24] Etienne: mean, he doesn't even have to make it pretty. I literally just wanna be blindfolded and tied up and then like that's what I'm looking ... And then do stuff to me.

[00:11:33] Heidi: Yes. Yeah 

[00:11:34] Etienne: And I will lay out what I want done since he obviously wants it completely as a list. So I'm

[00:11:38] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:11:39] Etienne: First you'll do this.

[00:11:42] Jane: Yes. I 

[00:11:43] Etienne: Then you'll do th- All right, you don't have to do it in this particular order, but I would like all of these things to happen." 

[00:11:46] Jane: He'll be grateful for it. He told you what he needed. Now, has he self-identified and said, "I am on the spectrum and I need you to do this," or he just says, "I need you to do this?"

[00:11:54] Etienne: I think he said he was on the spectrum. I think he did say that. Yeah. It wasn't via text, it was in person when he said that. And I was like, "Ah, that's why."

[00:12:04] Heidi: That 

[00:12:05] Jane: so were you armchair diagnosing him before he said

[00:12:09] Etienne: I was sitting there going, "He is interesting in a odd way." I was like, "Is this an odd way that I don't like, or an odd way that I can live with because I kinda wanna be tied up by somebody who knows what they're doing?"

[00:12:21] Etienne: So yeah. So when he said that, it actually made me feel more comfortable. I'm like, "Okay, this is why he seems kinda socially awkward." He gave me an example of, um... He said, "This is how bad I am." And I'm like, "Okay, yeah, I can't wait to hear this story." Um, he's like, well, he, growing up there was cousins of his or step-cousins that came and stayed with his family or something, and one night he was left alone with these two girls, and one of the girls came up to his room while he was in bed.

[00:12:49] Etienne: I mean, he was wearing pajamas or something. But she came up to his room and straddled him, and he didn't do anything to her. Like, he didn't understand that that meant she wanted him to do stuff with her sexually. And she eventually left the room and was like, "I don't know what's wrong with you."

[00:13:04] Etienne: Like that's how she, that's how that whole encounter ended, she was trying to get him to touch her, and he was like, " I, I don't

[00:13:12] Jane: Why are you 

[00:13:13] Etienne: I But yeah, I don't even know what's happening. Why are you on me? Like, what's

[00:13:16] Heidi: How old was he? 

[00:13:16] Etienne: on?" Yeah. Wait, what's that?

[00:13:18] Heidi: How old was he

[00:13:19] Etienne: Oh, I'm, I th- I mean, I'm thinking like early adolescence or, you know, I didn't...

[00:13:24] Etienne: I'm thinking like 13 or 14. It s- it sounded like that sort of an age, or that's the age group I walked away thinking of. So definitely an age where you should've been immediately popping a boner and knowing exactly like, "I'm gonna try," like, "you're straddling me. This is a, this is obvious that something is supposed to happen."

[00:13:42] Jane: Not reading the signs 

[00:13:44] Etienne: I mean, she might as well just grab his dick. Like, what does she need to do?

[00:13:48] Heidi: Wow. 

[00:13:48] Etienne: Yeah.

[00:13:50] Jane: At least he knows he has the self-awareness to then say, "Give me a list, tell me things." And he's telling you that story as an example. I think that now that there's so much more awareness about different mental health disorders, because of TikTok, right? Because you could sit there and listen to somebody say the flags.

[00:14:09] Jane: I have now, and I don't want to throw this person under the bus on the podcast on the off chance that they listen, but it's someone close to me in my life, and that I now as an adult looking back on my r- relationship with this person, I'm like, "Oh my God." And I did armchair diagnose this person recently, and I was just thinking there's no way that they're not on the spectrum.

[00:14:34] Jane: It just all, it all makes sense, you know? And I feel like I wanna have a conversation with them about it to be like, "Have you ever considered?" But I don't know what they would do about it at this point. They're very set 

[00:14:46] Etienne: yeah, what can you... There's really not much you can do, right? Except just be aware of it

[00:14:50] Jane: Well, to be aware and then maybe just have some coping mechanisms or maybe if we all could talk about it in the open when we're hanging out together, there could be some awareness and some... And then I could just speak bluntly to them and say, "Hey, everybody at the table right now is having a conversation about our favorite classes we took while we were in college, and a song came on the radio that you know, but nobody's really paying attention to it 'cause it's in the background, and you just derailed the entire evening to be like, 'This song came out in 1967, and the Bee Gees sang it, and it came out on their "Idea" album, and it was number five on the Billboard chart.'"

[00:15:32] Jane: And I'm like, "What the fuck, Rainman? Nobody was like, needed this information right now because we're all having a conversation about something else." So you know what I mean? So there's like a lack of reading the social cue, and it becomes intrusive in a way where it's rude now. 'Cause now we're never getting back to the conversation that we had because now this person wants to talk about that and then holds you hostage to that topic against your will for how- until they're done, until they're done. and it's 

[00:16:01] Etienne: Well, maybe, yeah, you can

[00:16:02] Jane: I think I might have 

[00:16:04] Etienne: Yeah, maybe, maybe you can. I mean, if th- this is... Yeah. Is it getting worse over time as well with this person? Cause I'm assuming you've known them for a while,

[00:16:12] Jane: Yeah. It, it, I 

[00:16:13] Etienne: See, uh, you're right. So I think this is something where if maybe there could be a, like a Rain Man. That's probably not nice.

[00:16:19] Etienne: There's probably something, another word you could use to let this person know that you've just run into your inappropriateness again of you're not understanding what's going on in this context, you 

[00:16:31] Jane: I totally could use the Rainman analogy it's one of this person's favorite movies 

[00:16:35] Etienne: Oh shit. 

[00:16:36] Heidi: And, does this person have a therapist?

[00:16:39] Etienne: Does this person 

[00:16:40] Jane: not current. Not cur- not 

[00:16:42] Heidi: can go through?

[00:16:43] Jane: Not currently. They have in the past for a different issue 'cause they were dealing with a traumatic event that happened to them. But, so I don't know if they could go back to them and be like, "Hey, also this other thing, can we talk about it?" I don't know, because it is becoming an issue.

[00:16:57] Jane: But then I don't want it to be like Etty, when you were talking about, you know, me saying, "Oh, have you ever considered that you might be on the spectrum?" And, then all of a sudden they take on the attributes or it's a thing. But I gotta 

[00:17:09] Etienne: the stuff. 

[00:17:10] Jane: you, I feel like this has been going on for so long that if this person is not on the spectrum, I would be absolutely shocked. Because I, I mean,

[00:17:26] Jane: I was a teacher for many years, and so there are certain things that I recognized in my students and I had to report it to write down certain flags that I noticed of various things if I thought that they might have a learning disorder, if I thought they might have an auditory processing disorder. Just that this person I do think that maybe I should talk to them because as an educator and I was a I can't remember the term, if it's like required reporter for all manner of things from domestic abuse

[00:17:46] Etienne: reporter. Is that it?

[00:17:48] Jane: To... Yeah, I had to do mandatory reporter. Yeah, if I thought a kid was being abused. But also it's if you suspect that a kid has a learning disorder or if you suspect that they might have a psychological disorder, there's forms you fill out. So I'm aware of

[00:18:02] Etienne: Damn, I didn't realize that. Yeah. That's 

[00:18:04] Jane: So this person has a lot of the flags. I'm not like, I guess I'm not your average armchair diagnoser because I had to do things officially for just reporting.

[00:18:14] Jane: I wasn't, I'm not a psychologist. I wasn't just like, "Oh, they definitely have this." I just said, "Maybe talk to Susan about the fact that her hands are raw from washing them so many times," or they're gonna tell you all about World War II, against your will for a long period of time, even though that's not what anybody was talking about, you know?

[00:18:32] Jane: And it's, it seems it's a little distracting and 

[00:18:35] Etienne: Wasn't that that one kid that you were talking about who, like, came to you for advice on how to get friends and a girlfriend? Wasn't World War II one of his favorite

[00:18:44] Jane: That, um, that was one of... Yes. That was one of his things, and then he was just really r- he took excellent notes, you know. So I got him to make friends, yeah, 

[00:18:55] Etienne: Oh, that's...

[00:18:56] Jane: by starting a study group where he was sharing his notes with everybody. Yeah. His name is Thor.

[00:19:00] Jane: Wonderful, wonderful kid. But I had many kids who had other things. Like, I did armchair diagnose a kid with Tourette's, but dude, it was obvious. It was just like, if this isn't tourette's, then

[00:19:12] Etienne: What did they do? 'Cause I only thought Tourette's was the cursing out of nowhere, but I've only recently learned anything could be Tourette's almost. I don't know. What was this kid doing? Do

[00:19:21] Jane: He did do that. And he also had physical tics where he would just kinda throw his neck back sometimes. 

[00:19:27] Jane: And he had outbursts. They didn't always involve profanity, but he definitely had an impulse control thing, and he definitely had a lot of foot bobbing. Like, his knee was always bouncing, and he needed to tap things constantly, so I would just give him a pillow to tap.

[00:19:44] Jane: But he would just shout things out. But his version of... Not version, not that he made it, but the way that his manifested was something that was very entertaining to everybody in the class because he was saying, and it was maybe just a lucky coincidence, but he was saying what everybody was already thinking.

[00:20:03] Jane: He just had zero impulse to mask it. So, I remember we were reading "To Kill a Mockingbird," and this girl in my class, whose name was Kim, bit of a bitch. I'm not a teacher anymore, so whatever. You can judge me all you want. This is back in 2000. Sorry, Kim. It's true. And she would just say things... 

[00:20:20] Etienne: You're armchair diagnosing her as a bitch, Jane.

[00:20:22] Jane: Yes, it was chronic bitchery. And she just was really, she was rude to a lot of kids. And, so this is my student, who had Tourette's, had just had it with her, and you could tell he was struggling to not say anything. He was tapping like crazy, and he was rocking in his chair. And then he was just like... And I could tell he was gonna explode. I could tell, the rocking got faster and faster, like he was about to detonate. And he was just like, " You're a fucking bitch." And the rest of the class just started clapping. And I was like, "What am I supposed to

[00:20:55] Heidi: Yes. Yeah 

[00:20:56] Jane: Because I also wanted to clap because Kim was a bitch. And, 

[00:21:01] Etienne: Wow. What did you do?

[00:21:03] Jane: I just, I I just kind of walked over to Andrew and I just put my hand on his shoulder and I gave him a tap that was kind of like awesome. You know, like, like a attaboy tap on his shoulder. But I, I just said, I was like, "Andrew, that's enough."

[00:21:18] Jane: And then I was just like, "Kim, I'm..." You know, just g- cut-- Everybody knew he had Tourette's at this point. I was just like, "Kim, cut him some slack. His med's been adjusted." And Andrew was like, "Yes, yes, I'm sorry." But then I kinda gave him a wink, and after class I was like, "Uh, dude, we were all thinking it, so just cut yourself some slack." Cause he was like, "I'm really sorry." And I'm like, "We were all

[00:21:37] Etienne: Oh my God 

[00:21:39] Jane: he was actually one of my favorite students, cause he was smart and he was cool and he asked really great questions. And every once in a while he was just like, "Fuck!" You know? And it was just like, it was always though, it was always appropriate if that means-- Like, not appropriate 'cause it was class, but it was always In response to something

[00:21:59] Heidi: response to

[00:22:00] Jane: I was also

[00:22:01] Etienne: How do you not laugh at that though? How do you not... 

[00:22:03] Jane: I mean, it, it was 

[00:22:04] Etienne: such a hard time, like 

[00:22:06] Jane: I would just kind of nod my head like, you know 

[00:22:09] Heidi: so you reported it and he got his diagnosis then so he could get on meds is 

[00:22:14] Jane: he already had a diagnosis, but I didn't know about it. Like, this was back before, you know. But then when he started doing that, I was like, "Um, there's no way this kid doesn't have..." So I asked him 'cause this was like 2000, so people didn't, I don't know. I wasn't gonna get fired for it

[00:22:30] Etienne: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:31] Jane: Cause I was coming from pure intentions and genuine curiosity.

[00:22:35] Jane: And then he said, "Yeah." He's like, "I'm sorry. I'm adjusting my meds right now." And then I also asked him if I could give him a pillow 'cause the tapping was making me nuts. I was like, "Dude, you're making everyone around you a little crazy with the tapping." I was like, "If I give you a pillow and you can tap that and squeeze that all you want, maybe like a stress ball, do you think that might help?"

[00:22:53] Jane: And he's like, "Oh yeah, definitely." So I think that sometimes my philosophy of armchair diagnosing is that we shouldn't do it with negative intentions or the intention to just gossip about somebody behind their back and just wonder what it is. But if you're coming from a place of genuine curiosity, and then you have a conversation with the person that comes from a place of like, "I'd like to understand you better, and I was curious if you had blank because you kind of exhibit some symptoms I've read about. What do you think about that?" And when I've done that as a teacher with students, usually they were like, "Oh yeah, I totally have that." And then there were times when I really was thinking like it was something more subtle, then I reported it to the guidance counselor and the school psychologist and had them go in and do some kind of intervention.

[00:23:35] Jane: And I've never with someone who is like a friend, we just kind of all talk about how we're armchair diagnosing ourselves, and then usually there is a follow-up visit. You know? Like Heidi, you've seen people, I've seen people, you know, Etty, you've seen people. Like, we all talk to people, you know? Um,

[00:23:53] Jane: But yeah, this person who's been in my life for years who I think is on the spectrum, I don't know what they would do. I don't know what the intervention would be at this point. They're getting older and I just don't know. Do you guys have anyone that you really want to say something to them, but you're just like, "Ugh, how will it be received?"

[00:24:08] Heidi: Uh, I mean, there's several people in my life that I have put some diagnoses on. Just like Etty said, just to deal with them. But, something that's similar to this, but have you guys heard about the latest trend, speaking of being off topic, like switching topic.

[00:24:29] Heidi: Have you guys heard of the trend of men putting in their profiles, their dating profiles, that they're looking for a slightly autistic girl? 

[00:24:37] Etienne: What? What the fuck? What the fuck 

[00:24:39] Heidi: a thing. There, there's been some... 

[00:24:41] Etienne: is that? Why would they want that first of all?

[00:24:44] Heidi: So they're fe- fetishizing, you know, oh yeah, slightly t- I'm looking for a slightly autistic girl. Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:52] Jane: Do they say why? Have you read why they want that? I'm, I'm just curious

[00:24:56] Heidi: they, they like the quirkiness. They like the quirkiness. When they actually get an autistic girl, there's some things that you gotta deal with.

[00:25:04] Etienne: Yeah. 

[00:25:05] Heidi: So, but i- these guys are just, yeah, Fetishizing? 

[00:25:10] Etienne: W-what? Fetishize? That sounds right. Fetishizing 

[00:25:13] Jane: yeah, fetishizing is a word, but it's just fucking hard to say. I'm wondering if it's, if it's a positive back to what Etty was saying. Well, 'cause Etty, you were saying that it was refreshing that this guy who wants to tie you up is saying like, "What I need is instructions and directness."

[00:25:31] Jane: And I'm wondering, Heidi, if there's something with-- I don't know why there's like specifically men though, 'cause it's weird. 'Cause I've had some students over the years that were on the spectrum and it was actually really refreshing to talk to them so directly, and, and with unemotional responses to direct feedback, right?

[00:25:47] Jane: 'Cause that's not the case with a lot of people. But with my experience with several students on the spectrum, they were like, "Yes, I would like you to speak to me directly." And then they would give me direct feedback too. Like, well, I remember one kid just saying like, "You should probably have a breath mint, Mrs. Gari, because your breath is woken after that lunch." He's like, "I smell your lunch and you're gonna be working really closely with us while you're grading, helping us rework our papers." And I was just like, "Thank you." Because who else is tell- they're not gonna tell me that. They're gonna freaking say it behind my back. But he didn't say it in a mean way. He was just like, "Mrs. Gari, you should probably have a mint," 

[00:26:23] Etienne: Just a matter of fact. 

[00:26:24] Jane: matter of fact 

[00:26:25] Etienne: Just like, Yeah yeah. I'm looking forward to what tomorrow might bring as far as, like, this conversation 'cause like totally the boundaries thing are what I'm looking forward to tomorrow, besides he knows I wanna be tied up. He's like, "Well, we could talk about it then or now." And I'm like, "Let's talk about it then. That seems hotter." Might not be, though. I don't know. It's gonna be weird. 

[00:26:47] Jane: Oh, I can't wait for the after action report

[00:26:49] Etienne: I know. But Jane, to answer your question,

[00:26:53] Etienne: I did armchair diagnose my ex-boyfriend's before he got his ADHD diagnosis. 

[00:27:00] Etienne: I was right. And, I didn't even know that, so much more were symptoms of what he was having were ADHD. I just was going by a couple of little things that were bothering the shit out of me. But it turns out, like, the majority that bothered me about him was probably all being affected by ADHD.

[00:27:16] Etienne: And yeah, he did go and he finally got an appointment through the VA to have the full day. Was it eight hours? It was really long. He had to wait months and months and months to get this appointment. And yeah, it was literally... And he had to wait two weeks to get the results. This was not an instantaneous thing, and they gave him the full fucking evaluation, and they said he had both types of ADHD.

[00:27:38] Etienne: I don't know which. I can't remember what the both types are, but he has both of them. It's like, well, that sounds really awful. Not only one of them, but two of them. I mean, is it only two kinds? Maybe. I don't know. I don't know what all the kinds of ADHD there are, but yeah, when you don't have ADHD and the pers-

[00:27:55] Heidi: Did he tell you he had both 

[00:27:57] Etienne: both types? Mm-hmm. Yeah, he told 

[00:27:59] Heidi: I don't, cause it's either hyperactivity or not hyperactivity. So I don't understand how he can have both 

[00:28:05] Etienne: Well, I mean, maybe it does explain the whole, like, where he will go and sleep for weeks at a time on the couch versus then he'll get hyper-focused on playing some video game and not stop and go to bed at like 3:00 in the morning. I don't know. Like, I don't know what, what they would be.

[00:28:20] Etienne: But, yeah, he thinks that his mom had one kind, and his dad's got the other kind, and he thinks that's why he got both, that he has both kinds of ADHD. And he's armchair diagnosing them. They don't have the diagnosis. But he can recognize in them the things that they said were, like, showing that he has both kinds, and I'm like, "Whatever."

[00:28:39] Etienne: All I know is it's annoying. It's, it's annoying. I literally was like, "I'm gonna have to read a book. I don't know how to deal with this." And I was trying to send him... I paid for him to go to a therapist to try to find coping mechanisms on how to, now that he has a diagnosis, how do you find some coping mechanisms to overcome the issues that are related to these specific things that are caused by your ADHD?

[00:29:04] Etienne: Th- he had so many other issues going on that we couldn't even get to the part of what I wanted him to be going there for. He didn't even... He was like, "Oh, my childhood was so bad, and this is why I don't like myself." Like, that's where he was stuck with the therapist. That's so far away from getting to, how do I cope on a day-to-day basis with my ADHD symptoms.

[00:29:23] Etienne: So, sorry. I just didn't have decades to dedicate to help in this situation, you know? And he wasn't even working on it. She would give him exercises to do. He wouldn't do th- he wouldn't do them so much that she would give him extra free sessions while she would eat her lunch, and he would have to go over there, drive to Mount Pleasant, like on the opposite side of the fucking city where we are, and do the exercises in front of her because he would not do them on his own. That's how bad he is. 

[00:29:51] Jane: I don't know. 

[00:29:52] Etienne: How did I eight years? I don't, I don't know. don't know. I Don't 

[00:29:57] Jane: But that circles back to what we said earlier in the conversation about like if you find out you armchair diagnosed, he went in for an evaluation. It turns out you were right. He did follow up with treatment, but the treatment needed to start at a square one that you d- were just like, "My life is not gonna be long enough to deal with this." But the DSM-V, on the ADHD thing, there's three different types. Okay, so there's ADHD there's, three types, but one of them is a combination of one and two, right? So, ADHD 1 was what was formally known as ADD. So people with this type struggle with the focus, organization, task completion rather than hyperactivity.

[00:30:39] Jane: And then ADHD-H is the least common type, primarily characterized by high energy, restlessness, and impulsive behavior. But then he probably, when he said he had both, it, he means like maybe a combined type, ADHD-C. This is the most prevalent pre- presentation of ADHD in individuals with this type exhibit a mix of both inattentive and hyperactive impulsive symptoms. So that's why he would then be for long phases where he would be like, "All right, I'm sleepy and I wanna do this," and then he would have like this burst of energy and stuff but like unfocused and then maybe let's start 15 things at a time because I'm very excited about all of them. Yeah. But I'm not gonna complete them 

[00:31:20] Etienne: Yeah. Let me start this project and I'm just gonna walk away before it's all complete. Like wait, wait, wait, you're not done. You can't just leave all that shit over there. 

[00:31:29] Jane: And I'm just putting it back to me with the annoying stuff that I know that my stuff would do. I wish there was TikTok when I was growing up because my mom, it would've been so obvious. I was so textbook with the OCD. She would've been like, "Why is my child turning the lights on and off 21 times in a room? She's looking under the bed 21 times. She's muttering to herself. She's checking the alarm all the time. Her hands are raw." Like she's doing weird shit, you know?

[00:31:53] Jane: And, it was pretty textbook, but instead it was just like, "Stop doing it," 'cause I know it was annoying. Or not being able to leave the house because I had to check some stuff. That's why I know my family now, my coping mechanism now is I'm just like, "I'm just gonna take a picture of this.

[00:32:07] Jane: If I need evidence, I'll just look at my phone. I'll look at the picture," and I don't have to bother my husband and say, "Can we please go back to the house 'cause I'm pretty sure I left the oven on and it's gonna burn it down. It's gonna burn the house down." Instead, I look at my picture, I see, I call it my OCD photo shoot every time I leave the house, and then I can look at a picture of the oven, it's timestamped, and I see everything says off, and I don't have to bother anybody about it because it would be really, really annoying.

[00:32:31] Jane: Like, I mean, before I came up with this idea for myself with the taking pics on my phone of things, it would be a problem. I'm like, "I'm really sorry. I have to go back to the house." Or I just would keep it to myself because I didn't want to annoy people in my life, and I would just silently be imploding.

[00:32:47] Jane: And when we got to wherever we went, I would just go to the bathroom and cry for a few minutes and then just be like, "It's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay." And just kinda have to talk myself down, and then hopefully I would just distract myself with something and not think about our house in flames because I was certain, I was like, "I left it on. I left everything on." 

[00:33:07] Etienne: I know. That's... 

[00:33:08] Jane: It's, 

[00:33:09] Etienne: Oh, gosh. Well, I'm gl- so glad you figured out 

[00:33:12] Jane: Yeah. And I know like, you know, Heidi, I know that you've talked openly about your ADH- the AD... Do you know, are you one, two, or combined? And did someone armchair diagnose you besides yourself? Did some- did anybody ever

[00:33:24] Jane: say to you

[00:33:25] Heidi: No. no. I, was with a therapist and he's like, "Wait a second. I need to give you a test." So he tested me. I didn't ask about it, and he was like, "Oh, you have ADHD." And back then, I'd never looked it up. 'Cause he tried me on Ritalin, and the Ritalin, I wanted to crawl out of my skin.

[00:33:46] Heidi: Like I was so agitated and angry all the time. And after two weeks he's just like, "Yeah, we're gonna take you off this, and I guess you don't do well on stimulants," and put me back on Wellbutrin. And I guess I was managing fine back then. I got through school fine, but once perimenopause kicked in, I was struggling, just executive functioning, and the focus, and forgetfulness.

[00:34:12] Heidi: It was so bad. And, I thought it was me. Like I need to do self-improvement, you know, and I can fix all this stuff. And to find the ADHD TikTok and recognize myself, like blatantly. They were funny TikToks, but they were just making satire out of our quirks, you know.

[00:34:31] Heidi: And I'm like, "Oh. Oh my gosh. That's, that's what I've been struggling with." And so, you know, going back to a therapist and saying, "Hey, is there a non-stimulant medication for ADHD? Is there something I can try now?" And they were like, "Yes, but it's the most expensive kind, so we like to exhaust all our options."

[00:34:54] Heidi: And so even though I was leery about it, they were like, "Let's try Adderall." And the first day I took it, I cried 'cause it was like this could've been my real life this entire time. Uh, it, yeah. It was life-changing. So, ADHD TikTok saved my life. Really it did, 'cause I don't think I would've figured out what was happening to me

[00:35:17] Etienne: But you already had your diagnosis. You just, things just got worse 'cause you're perimenopausal. So yeah, so that just reminded you like, "Oh, I need to maybe do something about this now," 

[00:35:26] Heidi: Oh yeah, as soon as I saw it and recognized all the symptoms and all the characteristics, yeah, I knew I needed to get help to manage it. And yeah. So, if you're armchair diagnosing yourself, just get with a professional and get the real diagnosis and the help. Like y- y- you

[00:35:42] Etienne: Yes, cause the diagnosis itself isn't gonna help you except unless you're just looking for excuses of why you behave badly. 

[00:35:48] Heidi: Yeah. 

[00:35:49] Etienne: Yeah, bec- 

[00:35:50] Heidi: Yeah. Oh, it's just my autism. I'm an asshole 'cause I have autism. No, no, no. You're an asshole 

[00:35:57] Etienne: Yeah, I'd like to call out my ex-boyfriend. He went forever saying, "I don't have ADHD. I don't have it. I was never diagnosed with it." And then as soon as he was diagnosed with it, he literally said, "That's my ADHD. That's why I do that. That's my ADHD." He literally went from like, "Don't say I have it," to, "Oh, that's why I do everything that you don't like." Like, what the fuck? Sorry. 

[00:36:18] Heidi: I've seen people, I've seen people in my life lean into new diagnoses and it's like they look up the symptoms or the characteristics, and then they adopt those even if they didn't have them. It's like, no, no, no. This is, this is not a free-for-all that you can just behave badly now and do all the things that this says. No. like you're supposed to be trying to deal with your stuff 

[00:36:46] Etienne: oh. Yes, please. People, the whole... I, I feel like one of the goals in life is to always be improving yourself. 

[00:36:52] Heidi: coping...

[00:36:52] Etienne: Not fucking taking steps backwards.

[00:36:55] Heidi: Let's add some more bad 

[00:36:57] Etienne: Yeah. Let's, Let's, just, fuck yeah, let's just make us even worse of a people. No. Unless you're a comedian and it's for a good cause. Like, that is the only reason. 

[00:37:10] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause yeah, since getting the second diagnosis, I guess you could say. Like, I had the diagnosis long ago, but seeing the TikToks and going, "Oh, this is what's happening." Yeah. That made all the difference to finding coping mechanisms, getting medication. I don't know where I'd be if I hadn't gone back to the therapist and got medication and then, really, really started researching and looking at ways. You know, I use a timer. There's all kinds of things that I have implemented in my life that, that kind of help me navigate and deal with the executive dysfunction. Like, that's a really bad one for me. 

[00:37:49] Etienne: That's So good. That's really good. 

[00:37:51] Jane: a lesson. Yeah. That's awesome. I th- I hope other people do that if you, if... Yeah.

[00:37:56] Etienne: That's how you take a diagnosis, then you do better 

[00:37:59] Jane: Exactly. If you're anybody out there seeing themselves or others on TikTok, just like maybe just say, "You know what? Maybe, maybe go see a professional about that." That is the answer. 

[00:38:10] Heidi: And that's our show. You've been listening to The Women Are Plotting. If you have a story you'd like to share or have any comments, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com. And of course, you can find us on all the socials. Thanks, and until next time, be safe and be excellent to each other