Ladies Who List
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Ladies Who List
The Truth About Discount Real Estate Agents: Cheaper Isn’t always cheaper
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A lower commission sounds tempting, but it often leads to a lower net profit for the seller due to poor pricing and marketing strategies. We use real-world data to show how "saving" money upfront can actually cost you tens of thousands of dollars at the closing table. Learn why the cheapest option isn't always the most profitable when it comes to your home's value.
Share your thoughts in the comments below and Subscribe to Ladies Who List for honest, no-fluff conversations about buying, selling, and understanding real estate
Welcome to Ladies Who List. If you've ever wondered what really goes on behind the scenes of real estate beyond the glitz and glamour of selling sunset and the drama of million-dollar listing, you're in the right place. We're diving deep into the issues and questions you've always had, educating you on how to be a more innovative and successful buyer and seller, and giving you the truth about buying, selling, and everything in between. No fluff, no filters, just straight talk. Today we are talking about will a seller actually save money if they use a discounted broker. Today I have with me Nissa Gomez. Thank you. She is amazing. She's on my team. And our daughters actually go to school together and are the same age. Yeah. They're such cute friends. And actually, I met Nissa when my daughter was in uh pre-K. Pre-K. Yeah. Or preschool, actually. Yeah. And randomly, she knows my husband from Iowa. So way back in the day. It's all meant to be. Yes. So let's dive into it. Using a discounted broker who charges a lower commission is probably one of the most tempting promises in real estate. And it does make the seller feel like they're saving money. I mean, of course, they're paying less for something. They're going to be saving money. Sure. But will they actually walk away with more money?
SPEAKER_02I don't think so, Haley. But actually, there was a study done in Boston by the National Bureau of Economic Research, and it was kind of focused on the Boston area. And they found that properties that were sold by discounted brokers were actually sold for five and a half percent less.
SPEAKER_03Wow. Yeah. That's not crazy. That's a crazy stat. That is a crazy stat. So think about it. If that broker or a discounted broker charges 1% less, but they sell your home for five, what are you saving money?
SPEAKER_02No. And that's a stat. That doesn't seem like you're saving any money there.
SPEAKER_03Stats don't lie.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_03All right. So before we get more into it, we are gonna do our infamous would you rather question. What do you got for me? Well, we're gonna ask it and then at the end, we're gonna answer it. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Would you rather like an old photo from uh someone's Instagram? So way down on the feed, or send an accidental text to someone.
SPEAKER_03Ooh. Well, I'm the queen of sending accidental text. Yes, you are. So I think I know the answer to this one. All right, we'll answer those at the end. Okay. Let's just start with understanding what the typical fee is, just so our listeners and our audience know. So, Nissa, what do we typically see in commissions, both on the buyer side and the list side? Sure.
SPEAKER_02I mean, typically, we can't say like standard or always, but typically commissions are around two and a half percent on average. Listing is more two and a half to three and a half percent, kind of a a bit of a range. But you know, it depends on the agent and what they would like to charge and what they're willing to charge.
SPEAKER_03And it also depends on the city.
SPEAKER_02And I know the city and in the demand.
SPEAKER_03In some markets, the commission's higher, and other markets it might be slightly lower. Exactly. I think Chicago we're actually on the lower end. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Uh, I know the average in a lot of cities is three percent. Wow. Yeah. So let's talk about what a discount broker is. As in the name, a broker is someone who discounts their commission. So instead of that average of two and a half to three and a half percent, they might charge two percent. Some may charge one and a half percent.
SPEAKER_02And there's a discount brokerage that probably comes to all of our minds when you say this.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes, it does. And every time I see the name, I'm like, oh no, please don't buy my listing because they're not fun to work with. No, you know, it it's tempting. And as I said before, you know, it's the one variable that the seller can control in the beginning of feel like they can control. Correct. You know, there's so many different variables that are gonna ultimately, it's a pie. Sure. And ultimately at the closing table, they're gonna walk away with one check. So part of that is gonna be the commission, part of that is gonna be closing costs, part of that is gonna be inspection items, uh, and most importantly, uh the purchase price. That is the biggest variable. Sure. So when, you know, the only thing that they can control on this front end is that commission. So it is, like I said, very tempting. And I understand.
SPEAKER_02And I get the rationale, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean, it makes it makes perfect sense.
SPEAKER_02But really, I mean, I always like to tell my sellers, you know, what they should focus on from the get-go is what the net is going to be, what they're gonna walk away from at the table, at the closing table. Exactly. Wouldn't you agree? I mean, I think I learned that from you.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. It's that net, and that is the only number that the seller should focus on. And to think that you're saving money by using a discounted broker to save on commission, you are expecting that every agent, including that discount broker, is going to sell your home for the exact same price. And that is what's that is what we want to talk about today. And that is what is just absolutely unequivocally false. False, false, false. False for sure. I have to admit and tell this story. I'm embarrassed about it because I'm now a realtor. Oh, now this is actually what made me want to be a realtor. Okay. So I was that person. I, my very first condo, I was living in Los Angeles. My husband and I were selling our condo, and I did not want to pay an agent commission. I was like, I could do this myself. I will write the listing description, I will take the photos, I will do all of these things, I will show the property. And, you know, I so I did use this very discounted broker who essentially I paid this small flat fee to that would just put it up on the MLS. I remember it was supposed to go on like early December, which, like in hindsight, is the worst time to go on the market. Like I didn't know.
SPEAKER_02At least it was LA, right? There wasn't any snow.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but still. And so, you know, we he told me he put it up. I was like, why is my phone not ringing? I mean, I did not get a single phone call. So I looked into it and it was like December 20th, where I realized it was on the wrong MLS. What do you it was on the it was literally on the wrong MLS, okay? So I freaked out. I was like, we just wasted, you know, 20 days. Uh-huh. He redoes it, gets it on the right MLS. Guess what day it goes live? December 24th. Christmas Eve. The worst day ever. Anyways. Nobody's looking for house that's my fault, ring a little bit. So come January, of course it didn't ring till January, but come January, you know, I had a few showings, I got an offer. I was like, yes, I did this. So I'm in contract with these buyers. I negotiate the deal. I had, you know, I thought I was a good negotiator. I mean, and it when I go to Mexico, I'm a great negotiator. But when it came to real estate, I mean, in hindsight, I was not a good negotiator because I didn't know what I was doing. Sure. So I accepted this offer. They had a home sale contingency. I barely knew what that meant. I didn't look into it like I do now, of course, and vet, you know, what is the likelihood of that deal closing closing and all of the things. I also didn't really vet their lender. Long story short, that deal fell apart very close to closing. It was very stressful. I mean, we already had movers and everything. Oh wow. Looking back, there were a lot of things I should have done. Now that I'm a realtor, I was like, I did this wrong. I didn't do this. I didn't check this box. If I had a realtor, I think guiding you, maybe that deal would have gone through. So I was like, okay, screw this. I'm using a realtor. Okay. So I hired a realtor. She was like, oh girl, like you underpriced this. And I was like, really? I'm like, but my phone didn't really ring that much. She's like, but I need to like stage the house a little bit. So she came in and, you know, do what we do now. Staged it, put it up at a at a $50,000 higher of a price. Oh, wow. And it sold day one for $10,000 over asking. So I made $60,000 more, even though I had to pay for uh I don't remember what it was, $20,000 or whatever it was. I was ahead $40,000. And that was when I realized the importance and the value of a realtor. And that's when I decided, I'm gonna do this one day. That's I was a teacher at the time. So it wasn't for many years after that, but that is truly what made me interested in real estate.
SPEAKER_02That's that's really great because it's a perfect example of you get what you pay for, right? You weren't willing to pay in the front end, but then you decide to switch, pay for some expertise, and then look where it ended up. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03And what I realized is I wasn't paying for her writing the listing description, her taking the photos, her doing the showings. I was paying for her expertise. Exactly. And that that's the key here.
SPEAKER_02That's the intangible that not everybody can think about.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. So let's talk about why are there discounted brokers? Discounted brokers are discounted just like everything else in life for a reason.
SPEAKER_02Basically, you know, we can kind of like look at discounted brokers as like the contractor analogy. So everyone knows if you're gonna use a vendor or get something repaired or fixed, you know, you want to get maybe three quotes because you don't want the maybe the most expensive because you can't afford it, and you don't want the cheapest because likely that is not gonna be the best quality. So you want to always go for the middle of the road vendor. Um, so I think that's like really what we need to think about when we're kind of looking at what a discounted broker is.
SPEAKER_03And we all know, I'm sure I know you have a story of using the cheapest contractors.
SPEAKER_02Yes, unfortunately, my husband and I, you know, embarked on a huge renovation of a brownstone, and we wanted to go with a different um GC, but unfortunately, he was more expensive. And little did we know at the time that obviously we were going to be paying for what we got because the service we received with the lesser priced GC was horrible. He wasn't doing anything, he was like used to doing flips, he wasn't building homes for people. Um, so the quality of vendors that he used, you know, lacked. Um, the quality of materials that he was like looking for us to choose from. I had to like do everything on my own, stopping by the property daily. He was never there, he wasn't on top of the vendors. So we ended up at the end of the day, many months in, having to fire him, which was not an easy decision. But I was very pregnant and managing this like this build by myself as my husband was working very hard, and we had to get a new GC, which is the one we originally wanted to go for. But he was the more expensive one, the more expensive one, but we learned our lesson that you always have to go with like the better option because you know, actually, one of my first sales managers, I always remember he said, you know, good things are seldom cheap and cheap things are seldom good. I love that. So that's like a quote that always sticks in my mind. So although we thought we couldn't afford, you know, the more expensive GC, at the end of the day, we chose the the cheaper one, and then we had to pay extra to fix to rule the issues that weren't done right from the get-go.
SPEAKER_03I want to tell a story about when I took over this listing. So I had I had sellers, this was many, many years ago, and we've taken over a lot of listings from discounted brokers, but I remember this one very vividly. So these sellers called me one night, they called me at like 9 p.m., which is fine.
SPEAKER_01But they were available all the time, right? Doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_03Uh I was like in the bath getting out. I'm like, yep, I'm available. Uh but yeah, they called me. They were so stressed out. They were working with a discounted broker. Uh, they were moving out of state, they had accepted an offer with them that had a home sale contingency, and it was a 90-day, it was a 90-day deal. So it was like basically three weeks before closing. Again, they'd already bought a house in the state they were moving to. They already had movers coming, and the deal fell apart. And the reason the deal fell apart, I won't get into it, was a huge mistake that that agent made. Huge. So they were like, we thought we were saving that 1%, but in reality, we just wasted 90 days of paying paying a mortgage and you know, market time. And then they ended up calling me like in the winter in the worst market. So I took it over. I it showed horribly. I had to re-stage everything. I had them paint a couple things, and we ended up with a higher price than they did, and we closed. Awesome. And they like they said it out of their mouths, and I very rarely hear this, but they said, we should have worked with you from the beginning. The amount of money that we saved paying a higher commission was huge.
SPEAKER_02And like my contractor story, yeah. You should have paid a little bit more in the beginning to have a probably a much better result.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. But yes, I learned my lesson through my real estate story and selling and contractors as well. So I feel you there. But yes, you get what you pay for. Exactly. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02And we try to tell our clients that, or you know, our new clients. You know, some people have to learn by experience. So we're trying to use our experience to help them from the beginning.
SPEAKER_03So and why are agents discounted? You know, you have to think about that. I mean, there are 40,000 agents in the city of Chicago, and there's hundreds of number, right? It is, and there's hundreds of thousands of agents nationwide. Why are those brokers discounted? We have to ask ourselves that because wouldn't they want to make a larger fee? For sure.
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean, who doesn't want to make more money?
SPEAKER_03Exactly. And if you think about it, it's most likely because they can't compete with those agents. They don't have the skill level, they don't have the experience, they don't have a ton of clients referring them business because they maybe they didn't do a good job. So you have to ask yourself, just like uh a lawyer, a doctor, anything else, when something is too cheap, usually it's too good to be true. There's a reason for it.
SPEAKER_02Really, it's just the you know, the lack of knowledge and maybe the experience that they don't have that the agents that are able to spend more time, this is their career.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so let's talk about experience because experience matters. For sure. And I'm gonna say that again just because it is so important. Experience matters, and not just the length of time you've been in the business, but how much actual experience an agent has is going to absolutely change the outcome of your listing. For sure. So let's use an example. Discount Dave. Oh, that's a good one. Discount Dave from the bargain bin brokerage. Bargain bin brokerage charges 2%. All right. So he's a discount broker. He charges 2% on a million dollar house. Discount Dave times the market wrong. It's on a lockbox, puts it on a lockbox. He does not prep the home to sell, he does very limited marketing, and there's absolutely no hype because of his lack of strategy.
SPEAKER_02He maybe he's like laying on the couch most of the time.
SPEAKER_03Well, he's not even there. He's he doesn't show up to his showings. So he lists it at a million dollars and he ends up selling it at 950. Okay. So in that scenario, the seller walks away with $930,000. Now we're gonna move on from Brooke, and we'll say she's from Compass. Okay, of course. Brooke is very experienced, she's got a great network. She's very good at prepping properties and staging them. But she does charge 3.5%. Okay. She knows what she's doing though.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03So before this listing goes live, she watches the market. She has a strategy, she times it well, she creates all this hype. She does an open house that's bananas because she markets it, she puts it out there, she kind of taps into her network. Taps into her network. She they end up getting multiple offers, and the seller ends up getting a million twenty-five. Way to go, Brooke. Way to go, Brooke. Honestly, probably go for more than that. Probably. Knowing what we know about multiple offers. Exactly. But in that scenario, the seller walks away. Even though Brooke charges three and a half percent, the seller walks away with $989,000. More than $930, even though discount Dave charged one and a half percent less, the seller walked away with almost sixty thousand dollars more with Brooke. That's a great example from Compass. That's a really great example. So again, it is not about the commission. It is truly about the the sales price. I've seen when you know someone takes over a listing or you know, two agents are selling in the same building and you know, a very similar unit, and one sells for, you know, that range could be anywhere from you know five or as high as 10% difference. It's crazy. So to pay an extra percentage or an extra percentage and a half, even an extra two percent, you are investing that to make more on the other side. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Investing. I think that's the key word. Yes, it's an investment in your what you're walking away with at the closing table. So along with, you know, all the strategy that you're getting, you know, again, there's there's all these things that go into marketing. It's not marketing, it's not just, you know, the pieces of paper or the flyers that you're you're handing out at an open house. It's really the quality of the photographer that you're using, it's the quality of the Oh, and so you mean iPhone photos don't fly? Yeah, no, not a good look. Not if your first look is on the internet and everybody's seeing it. You want to go with top-notch photography because photography, we we always say photography is everything, and that's really the first look that anyone sees because seeing the product virtually, seeing the home online, is what people are gonna see before they see it in person.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it's not just you know the quality of photography, it's the angles that it's presented in, it's how the property is presented in the way of decoration or decluttering, it's it's all the things that's marketing.
SPEAKER_03One thing a lot of agents don't do, particularly discount agents, is the preparation of the property.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And you know, when we walk into a listing and know, like I immediately know if they're using a good broker or a discounted broker because if it is, you know, has yellow walls and just doesn't show well, and they the sellers have clearly gotten no direction whatsoever. Probably a discounted broker. Exactly. They're probably using discount Dave. Discount Dave.
SPEAKER_01He's getting all the business because he's charging, charging the least amount.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I have seen the worst photos on listings that I just cannot even believe.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, one time I saw a listing photo and it was of a bathroom, and the agent was in the picture of the bathroom.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god. It's so terrible. I I think I sent it to you to our team. There was a listing that was like a $1.2 million. It was an expensive listing in a in a very desirable neighborhood, and they had like takeout on the counters, every bed was unmade. There were the the counters in the bathrooms were like full of shampoo. I mean, it was disgusting. Yeah, not gonna fly. Yeah. Another thing that discount brokers often do is just throw up a lockbox. We all have a love-hate relationship with that lockbox. We like hate, right? Especially in the freezing temps. Yes. When I see on my sheet the showing directions and it says lockbox, I'm like immediately 50% chance we get it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean 50% chance I'm gonna be able to open the lockbox, 50% chance I'm gonna find the lockbox.
SPEAKER_01The sea of lock boxes that are are likely near that lockbox. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Actually, a couple weeks ago, I had a showing and it was lockbox. And you know, it had very specific instructions, which most agents don't put on there. Yeah. But it it had like the name, some name I've never heard of, and it said where it was. And I was like, oh, this one will be easy. I was like 70% chance. So I walk out to the property. There is a gate. I kid you not, there was at least 25 lockboxes on it. 25. Like in a row. It was, I felt like I was being punked. Like it was a joke. So I'm looking at the instructions and it has the name, the brand name of the lockbox. I'm like, really? So I have to lift up every single lock box to look on the bottom to find this like brand name that I could not find. So I'm calling the agent, not picking up. Of course not. Of course not. Not picking up, going straight to voicemail. Actually, the the number on the MLS was the brokerage. Oh. So then they transfer me to him. And of course he doesn't pick up. So finally we're sitting in the car because it was freezing. Sure. And you know, he finally calls me back and he's like, he he explains where it is. I'm okay. So we finally find it. You know, we get the keys. I open it. There's like seven keys on this ring. We're already late to our next showing. It's so stressful. So we walk up to the building. You know, of course, it's the last key I try. Of course. That takes five minutes. We get in, we try to find this unit. None of none of the units are numbered. So we're just like uh south, north, like trying to figure out, knocking on people's doors because we didn't want to walk in. Finally get in. And, you know, by that time, my buyer was like, this sucks. Like they have a bad taste in their mouth. They don't even, you know, it's it's the experience thus like at that point had been so poor. Sure. That I think he was just out before he even walked in the door. Oh, yeah. And, you know, so we get in, it's freezing cold in there. Like they did not have the headache. There was no information. We had all these questions, like, you know, where I don't know, it was a confusing unit. And the agent wasn't there to answer the questions. So like we were out. We were like, all right, on to the next, you know. And if we had had a different experience and the agent was there to answer the questions that we had, it was actually even just to open the door, right? Yeah. It was a cool unit. Like my my client may have liked that unit and move forward.
SPEAKER_02So the experience that somebody has in a listing or a showing matter. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, even one of our most recent, like a recent co-listing that we had over the summer, you know, we helped our clients put their home in the best light. We had them paint their home, um, remove a lot of clutter, do a lot of things like that maybe a discount broker wouldn't have done. And at the end of the day, they were able to get multiple offers and closed for like 40,000 over the list price.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and way over what the comps were. Way over. And that particular home needed needed some love. And there were some things that we had to get buyers through. Sure. And you were there at the showings to give the buyer imagination like you could, you know, make this the dining room instead so that you have a bigger family room. And, you know, if you weren't there, you wouldn't have been able to show you.
SPEAKER_02And I could point out the fact that a vintage home typically doesn't even have more than one bathroom, and this had like two and a half. So like people didn't realize what they were getting at the end of the day. And so just having an agent that has the knowledge and that can create the right narrative for the for their seller is important.
SPEAKER_03And actually, that's a good segue into what I wanted to talk about next, which is getting the deal to the closing table. So in that deal, if you remember, the we had on our disclosures that there was a teeny tiny bit of seepage. Yep. It was a vintage home that's totally normal. This basement was unfinished, and their lender could couldn't finance them.
SPEAKER_02I know. And they were in the back of the bus saying, like, I don't know what to do. I can't get them through this process.
SPEAKER_03So, you know, what did we do? We went into problem solving mode and we talked to our preferred lender and together strategize on a way that those disclosures would not be a problem. So they switched to our preferred lender and they closed. Problem solving. Yep. I huge. When it comes to buyers agents, I don't see people searching for discounted brokers as much. Although the brokerage we were talking about before, I know that one's enticing to some people. Some people like that. And and I know that I have had a lot of buyers that started with that brokerage and then came to me because they lost out on a lot of properties. Oh no. They're like, I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I've made five offers, none of them have landed. And I'm asking them these questions like, are you doing this? Are you putting in this term? What a lot of buyers don't think about is that the agent they work with is gonna ultimately change the outcome of what home they landed in. Exactly. And you might lose your dream home because you didn't have the right strategy. Your agent didn't have the relationship with the listing agent. You didn't have the right terms. And so, you know, another thing that you need to think about is you're paying this commission to have a higher chance of getting in your dream property.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I have a great example. I had a client this summer and you know, it was a multiple offer situation, and they actually this the listing agent said, you know, I have an offer, it's it's a little bit higher, but I'm just not sure or confident that that deal is gonna go through. And I'd rather I know that, you know, if you're coming to the table, Nissa, that we can that you'll be able to get this deal done.
SPEAKER_03I mean, how flattering is that, Nessa?
SPEAKER_02And obviously, I felt so good to help my buyer get the property that she wanted.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it was it was a win-win for us. But I mean, it matters that I was part, I'm a part of a great team that has an awesome reputation out there. Yeah. So people know when they work with us that we mean it and and we're gonna get the deal close.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Buyers definitely underestimate the importance of an agent's reputation. For sure. Absolutely. All right, lastly, just the service. And and that is the last thing on a seller's mind. And in the beginning, you know, they're like dollars, dollars, dollars. Like all they care about is dollars. And I understand that it's a huge, it's their biggest transaction. And then they get into it and then they realize how important that service is. Right.
SPEAKER_02Because listing a property is so stressful.
SPEAKER_03Actually, I read this and I I think it's kind of crazy, but they say selling a property is one of the top five most stressful things you can go through in life. I believe it. Like on the same list as divorce, losing a loved one. I mean, it is it's a lot. It's a lot. And when you need an answer and you cannot get in touch with your realtor, sure, or your realtor fails to deliver some very important information, or someone's knocking on your door and it's buyers and they're there for a showing and you were never told, exactly. Service is gonna matter. Service matters. So discounted brokers, discounted results, and discounted service for sure. You say it better. You just have to wrap your mind around the fact that you are losing out on something to get that discount. Service, results, experience.
SPEAKER_02Totally agree.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. To sum it up, when you're choosing a broker, you should not be shopping for the cheapest broker. You should be shopping for the broker who is A, going to get you the best result, B, who's going to increase your bottom line, most important. Yes. And of course, the one that's gonna make your life easier and give you the best service. Right. All right, so now back to our would you rather question. Oh. Jeremy, can you repeat it?
SPEAKER_00Would you rather accidentally like someone's old photo like way down on the Instagram uh feed?
SPEAKER_03Ooh.
SPEAKER_00Or accidentally send the wrong person a text. That's a good question.
SPEAKER_03All right. What would you do, Haley?
SPEAKER_01I mean you are the queen of mistyping.
SPEAKER_03I definitely sent texts and emails to the wrong person. I now am psychotic and I I I I swear I check four times any email I send and any text I send. So it's knock on wood. It's it's been a while. Yeah. I mean, but you're also kind of like a stalker. If you like it like an old photo, that means you were scrolling through their somebody's interested, right? But I'm going with that one. I I'm going with liking an old photo.
SPEAKER_02I agree. I'd rather like an old photo than to like submit something out there, like in an email to the wrong person or the wrong text. Yeah. I think that's more embarrassing.
SPEAKER_03It it does it does send a message though. I mean, when someone likes a really old photo, it's like you went through my Instagram that far down. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Very interesting.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So fortunately, we can unlike that now.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, I'm gonna, I'm going with that one.
SPEAKER_01I agree.
SPEAKER_03I I'd go with that one too. All right, Nassau. Well, thanks for being here, and that's a wrap. Thanks for having me. Thanks for tuning in to Ladies Who List. We hope you're walking away with some real insight and a little more confidence for your next real estate move. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this podcast with anyone who's curious about the world of real estate. If you have any questions or topics you want us to cover, we'd love to hear from you. Until next time, keep it real, keep it smart, and we'll catch you on the next episode.