OnlyFounders
Honestly real conversations with founders who are building businesses, communities, and movements while breaking patterns, and leading with radical truth. No varnish. No script. Just showing up as humanly possible with your host, Anne Gillaspie.
Anne is the CEO & founder of Fix & Form | A Denver Branding Firm, co-founder of 10toLaunch, building launch ready brands in just ten days, and Anne Speaks where she activates global audiences with bold keynote speaking. She is raising three incredible kids with her partner in crime in Denver, Colorado.
OnlyFounders
“I Taught Empathy for Years Before I Used It on Myself” | Rob Volpe | Ep02
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What happens when the "soft skill" everyone tells you to hide turns out to be the thing that built your business?
Rob Volpe spent nearly two decades running Ignite 360, a consumer insights and strategy firm he bootstrapped, self-funded, and grew without ever missing payroll — before exiting through acquisition. Along the way he became known as the Empathy Activist, author of the award-winning Tell Me More About That: Solving the Empathy Crisis One Conversation at a Time. His work is built on a simple, contrarian bet: empathy isn't a personality trait for the soft-hearted, it's an underused strategic tool that most leaders have talked themselves out of using.
In today's episode, we talked about:
• From qualitative researcher to founder, and the "old tapes" that told Rob empathy was a weakness, not a superpower
• The contract that said "EMPLOYEE" in all caps, and the full body "no" that ended his path to ever working for someone else
• Building Ignite 360 on relationships, not job postings, and why he hired for his own weaknesses first
• The clients who wanted empathy in the work but not in the title, and what that says about the current cultural moment
• His midlife crisis, the day the acquisition finally closed, and learning his business and his identity were never meant to be the same thing
• Letting go of "should" on newsletters, talk titles, and recovery, and trusting his own timing instead
"Don't let 'should' get in the way of good."
On empathy at work: it's not a bug in the system, it's a feature we were literally born with.
Rob spent his career teaching brands to notice what people actually feel underneath what they say. Turns out the hardest person to read that way was himself — and it took a contract, a cat named Domino, and one very loud "no" from the universe to get him there.
Resources and links (Rob Volpe)
Website: https://www.robvolpe.expert/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@EmpathyActivist
Book: Tell Me More About That: Solving the Empathy Crisis One Conversation at a Time: https://www.amazon.com/Tell-More-About-That-Conversation/dp/1774580896/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0
Newsletter: https://readingbetweenthelines.beehiiv.com/
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Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/onlyfounders/id1832541527
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Some people will talk about empathy as a flaw or a bug in or a weakness of being human, but it's actually a superpower and it's a feature. We're born with it. The neuroscientists have seen the parts of our brain that light up when we're experiencing empathy. And so imagine one of your other senses and not utilizing it. Literally choosing not to see, not to see the other person. But if you choose to turn off your vision and not use your eyes or your ears to hear, like why would you do that? You're not really using all of the gifts that you have at your disposal. And empathy is one of those things. There's been, you know, I call them old tapes that that have been been instilled in us about how we're supposed to show up at work and what does it mean to be a leader or a founder.
SPEAKER_01Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to OnlyFounders. It's your host, Ann Gillespie, today, and I am so excited to have Rob Volfey here with us today as the first guest on the show with Anne as a solo host. Matt, we love you, we miss you, and we're gonna get into some really heavy, fun, deep shit today with Rob. Hi Rob, how are you?
SPEAKER_00Great Anne. It's uh what an honor to be the first guest on OnlyFounders with Anne Gillespie. I'm I'm delighted to be here.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. I'm so happy to have you. I want to share with you guys a little bit more about Rob today so you can understand who we're talking to because I myself am very excited about this conversation. And of course, in the show notes, we're gonna list all of his links and socials and tag him so you guys can go find out more about him as well. But Rob is the founder of the Empathy Activist. Isn't that name so beautiful? And he's the former founder of insights and strategy firm Ignite 360, which he successfully exited from through acquisition. So congratulations, Rob. He's also the author of the award-winning book Tell Me More About That Solving the Empathy Crisis One Conversation at a Time. And his work centers around helping organizations use empathy as a strategic tool for stronger communication. Fuck yes, and collaboration and connection. In his own words, he helps people get comfortable with their neglected superpower so that they can show up more human and effective in both business and leadership. So now, after I read that to you guys, all of you should be saying, wow, this is the most amazing interview that Ann Gillespie should be having because all my work is rooted in truth telling and how to show up more human in our work and what a better tool than empathy to use to support my platform as well. So, Rob, great job. I love what you're doing, and we're so excited to have you.
SPEAKER_00It's such a delight. I'm I'm uh excited for the conversation. Which is gonna be great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's gonna be great. So I we both have coffee. Let's do a coffee cheers. If anyone else has a coffee, is yours coffee or tea?
SPEAKER_00Cheers. No, it is it is coffee. It's decaf because this is my third cup.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna give you some grace on that decaf. But I will say if it was tea versus coffee, I don't give grace for that shit. Like if you're not a coffee drinker with me, I'm gonna be like, what? What is wrong with you? Coffee is my love language.
SPEAKER_00Drink, drink coffee.
SPEAKER_01And you know what? If it's tea, you better lie about it. Just say it's coffee. Okay, moving on. Rob, I want to get right into your founder story of the empathy activist because the book, the work, the mission, everything that you're doing right now with empathy. Why? Where did that even come from? Why?
SPEAKER_00Well, the story of Empathy Activist begins with the early days of Ignite 360. So we've got our rollback, and actually, it goes even before I started Ignite 360. I've always been an empathetic person and attuned to other people's feelings. And in 20 years ago, 2007, got into qualitative research, going out talking to people, understanding how they think, how they feel, and helping our clients make decisions and drive their business forward based on that, based on building that real connection. A study came out in 2010 that said, hey, there's been this huge decline in empathy abilities amongst college students, looking at this huge period of time from the late 70s till 2009. And I was like, oh my God, these are people that are in the workplace. Like, you know, in today they're late 40s probably. And that's an issue. They're they're starting companies, they're becoming managers, they're parents, and if they're not able to as easily have empathy with other people, we're in trouble. Now you see where a lot of that has played out, and and at Ignite 360 is I started that firm really got frustrated because sometimes clients just wouldn't like we do all this work and collect these amazing, powerful stories of their consumers and why they were doing something. And then you'd have a senior leader, a business director, go, Well, I still don't understand why they're going to pay more than a dollar for a cup of yogurt. This is back when Greek yogurt was exploding. And I actually heard that from a business director of one of the non-Greek yogurt brands that was really suffering. And it got us curious about like what's getting into people's way and why and what can we do about it. And so starting to study our clients, ourselves, the social science research that was out there, we identified the five steps to empathy. A few years later, started coaching and training that, including it in our work, really positive feedback from the clients. That led to uh getting the inspiration to write the book, using my own stories. So the book, I didn't want to write a didactic self-help book that says you must do this and you know, or put myself up on a pedestal. I'm like, no, I'm gonna get real and share my what I call misadventures in trying to have empathy because as a qualitative researcher, I go into strangers' homes. I find, you know, I'm meeting new people all the time, and I have to be open to connecting with them. And if I can't do that, I'm not gonna have empathy, and then I'm not gonna be able to transfer that to my clients. So started writing the book. So Empathy Activist came about after the book came out, and the response to the book was very positive, and clients started saying, Hey, can you come in and speak to an off-site or um, you know, our sales team is getting together? Because empathy fits in every aspect of, you know, all the all the skills that we use to be successful. Empathy sits underneath all of them. Empathy will make you a better communicator, collaborator, it'll make you better at persuasion, and that makes you better in the role that you're playing. Whether you're a founder, whether you're supporting a founder in an organization, or you're part of the team that's been built out, you need to have empathy with each other, with your customer, with your consumer in order to make things going. And so that's where empathy activists really came about. But it's been a thread that's been going in my life for over 20 years now.
SPEAKER_01That's beautiful. So Empathy Activist, is that the name of your business that supports the book and what you speak to?
SPEAKER_00Yes, that is me, that is my business, that is is everything. And I came across that term. Somebody else on LinkedIn was using it, and this is like in 2014, and I loved it. I loved the tension between empathy, which people misperceive as this sort of soft, squishy skill, and then activist. And when people hear that, they think taking to the streets and marching, and you know, and yeah, that is part of activism, but activism is really about change and being a change maker. And how do you do that? Well, you use empathy to help persuade people to see a different point of view in a different way. And so I love the tension between the two words. And I asked the person, and I don't even unfortunately I don't remember who that person was, but I did message them and saying, Hey, I love this. Do you mind? Can I use this? And they were like, Yeah, sure, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01And yeah, here we are today. That's amazing. Well, so there's a lot of crossover between what you speak to and what you're about and my mission, which is why I was so excited to talk to you because I agree, activation is a word of change, right? And so my tagline of what I speak to is activating humanity with truth to lead honestly. If we're talking about activation, you're using empathy at the anchor point in the root, and I'm using truth. There's a lot of empathy and truth, there's a lot of truth and empathy. And I think both of us speaking to an emotional state that's softer, that takes some level of bravery to show up with empathy, but also to tell the truth. I think there's so many similarities to that. And I agree. I think it changes so many places that we exist in in leadership, in our team culture, and how we collaborate as parents, if we have children, as spouses with our partners and as friends, as daughters, sons, sisters, brothers. I think that empathy and truth both need to show up in all of those places to actually be more effective, being present and living this life, right?
SPEAKER_00It's, you know, some people will talk about empathy as a flaw or a bug in or a weakness of being human, but it's actually a superpower and it's a feature. We're born with it. The neuroscientists have seen the parts of our brain that light up when we're experiencing empathy. And so imagine imagine one of your other senses and not utilizing it. Choosing not to, I mean, literally choosing not to see, not to see the other person. But if you choose to turn off your vision and not use your eyes or your ears to hear, like why would you do that? You're not really using all of the gifts that you have at your disposal, and empathy is is one of those things. You know, I call them old tapes that that have been instilled in us about how we're supposed to show up at work and what does it mean to be a leader or a founder, and you know, we we culturally celebrate all the bad boys, and they're not getting praised. I mean, you look at the you know, I'm in San Francisco, I got a lot of them around here not getting praised. They're not most of them are not getting praised for their empathy abilities.
SPEAKER_01No, not at all.
SPEAKER_00Far from it. And and then, you know, there's conflicting messages for women.
SPEAKER_01How are you supposed to show up in the workplace and you're supposed to be nurturing and supportive, but you can't be empathetic is actually a very negative word for a female in a leadership role in work because it means you're too fucking soft. It goes the other way, right?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, we have a big governor election primary coming up, and the governor's election this year, and there's so many different candidates, and there's one leading female candidate on the Democratic side, and then there's like four or five men. And the issue with the men tends to be around policy or experience, and the issue around the female, Katie Porter, is that she was mean on a camera, and they caught that. And you know, and that it had happened a couple times. Or, you know, I I've seen her described as a scold by people that that you know, her tone is different. And like we're not talking about that with the men.
SPEAKER_01When the men show up more empathetically and nurturing and caring, they're going to get ridiculed for not being as strong and aggressive and you know, assertive. And it is, it's the word empathy and and being soft and nurturing is very negatively viewed upon for leadership for public figures. And it's really unfortunate because you and I both don't. There's your cat. Hello.
SPEAKER_00Come here.
SPEAKER_01Let's introduce your cat.
SPEAKER_00Yes, hold on. Come on.
SPEAKER_01Who is this with us today?
SPEAKER_00She's all nice and warm because she was curled up in the sun. But Domino.
SPEAKER_01Domino. Hello, Domino.
SPEAKER_00Outfail. She hears me on.
SPEAKER_01She hears it. And she needs to be included. That's okay.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And she will stay here for quite a while until she's just good.
SPEAKER_01So if you see something moving, guys, it's a cat. We're all good. So leadership, as you and I both know, when we are rooted in deep empathy, when we are rooted in our truth, that's the most powerful company culture and leadership style out there. The problem is, like you are just talking about, it is viewed as soft, it is viewed as unsuccessful, it is viewed as making less money, it is viewed as not going after what you want and need. And I would argue, I want your thoughts on this. Do you feel as a society in work in 2026, as we have the political climate, the global climate, all of the tension, right? Would you argue that our workplace is shifting more into accepting the softer side of leadership that's more human with empathy and truth? Or would you argue that we're actually being pulled even more away from it because it's viewed as being too soft with the current administration and all of the more I'm gonna call them bullying traits in leadership to get what you want and achieve your power.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's um there's probably a delayed reaction to what's happening on the political stage and then how that's showing up in the workplace. And there's so many different types of workplaces and people look at their different role models and go, oh, I need to be more like uh beat hegseth and just whatever all of that is. But actually, what I'm seeing with my clients, you know, uh there's been this big anti-DEI reaction. And there there are things, and I've heard stories that do make me cringe about the way DEI was rolled out, and um, you know, people were shamed. Um at from I've heard of high schoolers hearing presentations where they were shamed for sins that they did not commit, but they were being accused of things, and that was all in the name of DEI programs. And that's not that's not what DEI should be about. It should be inclusionary, it should be about all of us and respecting and learning from our diversity.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00So as the administration changed last year and that push started to happen, you definitely saw some companies really like backpedal away from it. I've had situations where I, you know, and and empathy is not the E and D E I, uh, but I've been asked to take empathy, make sure empathy is out of the title box because you know they're like you can put it in the description all you want. We can't have it in the title because that can create some problems.
SPEAKER_01Wow. How do you feel about that?
SPEAKER_00You know, we need to continue to have the conversations. I believe that, you know, okay, you're afraid of a word or you're uncomfortable, at least because of a word. I will challenge myself as a marketer to come up with something that is seductive that will intrigue you and go, oh, I need to understand what this neglected superpower is. And then you come in and I'm like, hey, it's you know, it's empathy. And and so I see a greater commitment, partly because empathy is so crucial to success in an organization. So something I'm seeing a lot of uh the CPGs, the food manufacturers, have hit a wall in terms of actually they've kind of some of them fallen off the cliff in terms of their sales. That's been going on for a while, a lot of different reasons behind it, but one of them is that they've recognized is oh, we need to be more empathetic. We need to connect with our consumer again and understand who they are and what makes them tick.
SPEAKER_01I agree with you. They've lost the human side of business, they've just become this product company, this brand that is we do business with business, and they forgot all about the people. And you work with people, you don't work with the business.
SPEAKER_00And and you create products for people. That's what they've realized, they need to reconnect with that. And it's all the way up at the highest levels of a lot of the organizations, which I really applaud. I think that's amazing that they're making they've made that recognition and they're making that investment in light of even though we are in this current environment. I mean, it's it's incredibly painful. People are being hurt, people are dying around the world as a result of the different policies and actions that are coming out of the current administration. Domino agrees.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I get it, I get an amen too. Yep.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So people are being hurt because of the actions of the administration. And as a result of that, like it's almost cartoonish in the absurdity that's the of what's going on. And if you look at how businesses need to perform and behave and what Wall Street's going to be looking for, they're not looking for absurd. They're looking for reliable, for steady growth. And even a founder, like you can't be that absurd. And so it's like, okay, yeah, that's happening over there. What do we need to do to grow our business? Because all of these things are also temporary. Administrations do change as hard as it is to understand that or kind of go, okay, I'm gonna hold my breath for three more years.
SPEAKER_01Your term will end, sir. Okay, moving on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So any anyhow, I I see a lot of empathetic behavior happening. And if you think about even for yourself, who is somebody that you look up to in at work or in in business? And then what is it about that person? Typically, there's some empathy related to that. The the very first time I did that exercise in a workshop, it's probably four years, three, four years ago. I was really surprised because I was expecting to hear, oh, yeah, I look up to Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk, and Sam Altman wasn't really a thing at that point.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, powerhouses.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. And instead, I I heard stories about my first manager or the mentor that I've been working with, or maybe a leader in an in the company. Well, what was it that they did? They took the time to listen to me.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00And they're not going to be able to do that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and there was always that baseline human connection first. They saw me. It was really the the basic human element and the basic human need is being heard and seen, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so when you think about what you're talking about, who you look up to, it is usually some type of element of a person, regardless of a boss, a colleague up here, a subordinate, and they say I was able to tell them anything, or I trusted them, right? Or I was able to have moments of crisis and be accepted, right? And be seen and be given coffee spaces to go vent or unload. And and it you and you said a word that I want to highlight here, which is mentor. The word mentorship, what does that mean? A lot of us say we were most greatly impacted by someone who offered us mentorship. And if you think about the mentorship or you mentored someone, what is mentorship? Well, there's a lot of empathy and mentorship. There has to be because that is a relationship that is not necessarily professional, work forward, aggressive, let's get shit done. What are your sales numbers? You know, KPIs. It is soft, it is human, it's warm, it's collaborative, and it is rooted in truth and empathy. And it's allowing that space for both of you to exist honestly. And I think what you're talking about when you go through your career, if you go through with empathy and you have those connections with empathy, who is gonna hire you and bring you on later when they have an opportunity? Is it someone that like you always got the metrics and you always did your thing, but you never made them felt seen or heard, or you never showed up? Or is it gonna be the people who you mentored or who mentored you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's the people that you have a connection with because ultimately it's a relationship. We are emotional beings and everything every decision is emotion-based first, and then our rational logic brain that's over you know developed or whatever is keeping us from doing something that might be too harmful or what or whatever. But it it it's regulating the emotion that's going on. And it can be based on really the primal sorts of emotions, and so it's all about that connection. Who made me feel good, safe, secure? Who supported me that helped me succeed? I want to keep working with those people. You know, that they say you want to work with the people that you like, and it makes work a lot more enjoyable.
SPEAKER_01Right. Okay, Rob, I have a question for you. I want you to think back maybe earlier career days. When was there a time that you weren't working with empathy? Like shit hit the fan and you don't have a proud moment there, and there was a conflict or there was a situation that you view as maybe a failure point or a point of growth that there wasn't empathy there.
SPEAKER_00I mean, my book is filled with stories of going into respondents' homes and me thinking that, oh, you know, am I in the home of a serial killer? Because there's some really weird stuff that that is happening and that we're seeing here. You know, other stories around going to the NRA gun show. And yeah, exactly. Me, the liberal lefty gay man from San Francisco going into the National Rifle Association to do intercepts and talking to people, but it was so eye opening. So there are definitely challenges there. And I'll I'll say, I mean, this show is only founders. So founder to founder, I'm just let's be honest, it is fucking stressful to see a company and to try to nurture it and grow it. And my midlife crisis, I know exactly when it started. And wow, that was uh quite a phase that I went through and I was still needing to grow the business and and keep it all going. And a lot of that was triggered from just the the added stress of running a business. When I exited my business, like when it I have not cried as hard as I did when the deal finally closed.
SPEAKER_01Like under the tears, what were all of those feelings?
SPEAKER_00Relief.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Realizing that there were, you know, we never missed a payroll. We were self-funded, so it was totally bootstrapped. My husband and I would, you know, bridge as needed the the stress of that, of of you know, knowing you're you're striving to create something that somebody else is interested in buying.
SPEAKER_01Right? That pressure alone, pause. That pressure eats my brain like several times a month. Of I'm okay, first, there's so much creative freedom in being a founder. You're like, I can fucking do whatever, I can literally snap my fingers and create something to sell today and fuck around and find out, see if someone wants it, right? You're like, whoa, that's kind of scary. Okay. Too much power. And then you're literally realizing that you're creating something that A, people want to work for. What? Like they want to work for me. That's weird. And two, B, where did I go? Uh, want to buy, which is like, wait, what? Like the value when you realize that about yourself as a founder and it clicks in and you go, I can create something that someone wants and needs. Okay, continue. That what you just said is like a royal mind fuck for me, like monthly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. And and I'm gonna come back to that in a second, because I think the other sort of emotion, you know, and it's related to the never missing a payroll. Like you are responsible for the people, and the and and there is profound gratitude and appreciation for the people that you know gave it a shot, whether they lasted or not, but the ones that also really came forward and and helped create this.
SPEAKER_01Because the energy that exists there in that deeply profound relationship between a founder and those early partners and those early employees is it's almost deeper than a marriage because you're you're literally putting all of your vulnerable mind muscle into creating this thing as a founder. And then you have people walk alongside you and see you and hear you and say, I am in this with you. Wow, like, and I'm caring for you and the gratitude that moves through you, through them. Thank you for giving me opportunity. I was looking back on the 12 years of my business and how much money and opportunity and work. It's not millions of dollars in this huge ticket thing. It's literally, but it's it's money and it's opportunity and it's work. And I'm the reason to give certain people jobs and clients and how much we've helped them, right? Like there is profound gratitude and empathy at the root of those very human relationships that are so deep because they see you often more than your spouse might see you in the depths of hell of founder life of like, what are we doing? And they're on that ship with you as it's sinking, and you're like, we're going down. They're like, no, we'll save it. And you're like all, you know, hands on deck, and and you save it, and then you sail and you go, holy shit, look at us. Look at us. Like that is a profound relationship.
SPEAKER_00It is, it really is. And you know, until the next squall hits, and then you're like, now what? Um and and it it and it's just a constant of that. I think, you know, some of it, well, I'll I'll say one thing about the early when I was starting the company, it really there was this sort of magical element to it where everybody came together. The people that I needed were already people that I had met in other aspects of my life. And I happened to have the skills or the experience. So I um was active with the LGBTQ swim team, the tsunami here in San Francisco. And one of the guys that was there had just graduated from college and he had a finance degree. And like the last thing that I want to be doing is invoicing and expenses and bookkeeping. And I I somebody said once to hire for your your weaknesses, you know, fill the gaps in with and he was the very first hire before I even started the company. He was like, clean up the expenses that I'm doing with this other uh place that I was at.
SPEAKER_01How long did he work for you?
SPEAKER_00Uh he was there for about four years. So yeah, it was the first first four years, and then you know, he needed to stretch and grow and and do other things, and he left. And we're still we run into each other, we've got some mutual friends, and it's all very friendly. But he made the choice that he needed to go. There were other people that just had skill sets around storytelling or just had already been trained to moderate, and you know, and she just happened to be out of work and looking to figure out her next thing.
SPEAKER_01And I'm like, There's no just happened, Rob. You and I know that. There it is, it is all energetically aligned.
SPEAKER_00And that was the thing, and I I really just had this feeling like there were so many things in my life that were all leading up to that moment of starting the company, and all the right people were were in place.
SPEAKER_01And yeah, that is what we call alignment because you were doing what you were supposed to be doing for that phase of life.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Yes, yes, definitely. It was, it was. But I would say to founders though, it's really important to understand where your end goal might be and like what you're doing this for. Because I think you can go, oh yeah, I want to sell the business. But then others, like in my industry in marketing research, there's a lot of small shops that people have as lifestyle businesses.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it it allows them to have the life that they want, they make nice money, they've got a team or whatever, but they're not looking to necessarily build it and sell it. I knew when I started, and just even by naming it, you know, Ignite 360, I didn't call it Rob Volpe and Friends Do Research. Like I wanted to I wanted to create something that might live on.
SPEAKER_01Can we ask you some questions with Rob Volpe?
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I Well, you founded you founded the company specifically to sell it and exit. That was a beginning goal.
SPEAKER_00No, it was something that I was open to. I didn't know where any of this was going to lead. I just knew that I need I knew I was in demand. I knew I needed to let I mean the the honest backstory, I'd been contracting with another firm. It helped them grow quite a bit. And I was contracting with them so much that they needed to make me an employee. And apparently when that comes up in conversation, I end up making a scrunchy face.
SPEAKER_01Well, you want to own me?
SPEAKER_00What? No. No, no. And I've been employ I've been an employee before, but for whatever reason, like at this point now, I'm like, no, no, no. Cont happy to contract all that.
SPEAKER_01That's not for me.
SPEAKER_00They wanted they wanted that. They wanted me to become an employee. They needed me to become an employee. And I was like, well, I can do that if you can also give me equity because I work so hard. I've helped build this business so much.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And they were like, oh, interesting. Okay. Had to go off, think about it, research it, and came back and said, no, actually, we can't for their for their own reasons, and that was fine. And they gave me a contract because it was like, okay, well, show me the money then. And they gave me a contract that really showed me the money. But and I again, sort of the energy of it all was in the kitchen. I mean, I'm in my house in San Francisco, and the kitchen is that way. And I was in the kitchen. It was a gray November day. I remember opening, I I avoided looking at the contract for three weeks. I was too busy doing work.
SPEAKER_01I was going to say, how long did it take you to open the contract? Because I do that too. If something comes and I know there's a result in there of my ask, I'm like, I can't, I can't, I can't do it. Like you give it to your partner and you're like, open it, open it.
SPEAKER_00I just it was it I I mean, it was 16 years ago, so I don't quite remember. But it was a period of time that the the owner of the other company had to keep reaching out to me. She reached out to me a few times to say, hey, have you had a I really you know, have you looked at it? No, not yet. I've been busy. Okay, have you looked at it? No, not yet. Rob, I really need you to look at it. Okay, I promise. We'll look at it.
SPEAKER_01Rob, click the email, open the contract.
SPEAKER_00PDF, it's going to be okay.
SPEAKER_01Look at it. Reply back.
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Like baby sets, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I do that. I open it, I look at it, and you know, the first couple sentences, the term, uh terminate definitions of everything. And so there was Rob Volpe, and then, you know, in parenthetical quotation marks, all caps employee. And I looked at that, and I was like every fiber of my being was screaming, no, do not do this. This is wrong. This is not who you are. Yep. And like I have never, I mean, I get messages from the universe, I'm plugged into the to spirit and God and all the things, but I have never gotten a message that strong and that like it was head to toe. And it it really was one of those, like, that knocked me back.
SPEAKER_01And I was like, Did you listen to it?
SPEAKER_00Oh hell yeah. Like I had to. I had to. It was like if I didn't listen to that, it was so clear and so evident. Like, you know, that getting into the field in the first place, the universe was putting the signs in front of me for probably 10 to 12 years before I actually went, oh, maybe I'd be good at this.
SPEAKER_01You're making me feel so good right now, Rob, because I have um shifted a lot from growing fix informed um to be this like big branding firm with all these, you know, partners and executives and everything, and um, and shifting to really growing my speaking business. And it's mine was about two years of hearing, receiving, getting knocked over the head, and still being fucking stubborn because that's and that's what we do. And so that makes me feel good. So thanks for sharing that because 10 to 12 years is a really long time to be getting that message and just saying, yeah, okay, yeah, maybe yeah, it's one day, right? Yeah, and that's that's a decade, y'all. Like that's a really long time to be going through your work and just knowing it's there, but not, you know, really doing anything with it. And that's patience, but also, you know, what happened when you did finally listen? Was it just like accelerated growth?
SPEAKER_00Did the training that the whole thing started to come back up? And it was like, hmm, maybe I'd be good at this. The woman that I had referenced at the other at that firm, she was like, You'd be amazing, go to Reva, get trained, it's a training institute. Okay, go get trained to be a moderator, and then call me when you're done, and I'll put you to work. And so it was uh MLK weekend twenty. Did the training was mind-blowing. And literally a month later, I was standing in the frozen vegetable aisle of a Walmart in Allentown, Pennsylvania, okay, patiently waiting to see if any shoppers happened to notice a test product that General Mills had in Green their Green Giant brand at the time in the aisle. And I absolutely loved it. I was so hooked. Um, and it just took off from there. And I was able to use all of my other experience doing marketing, promotional marketing, PR partnership. Like, I understood how marketing worked and brands and what they were focused on. So I was able to really bring that strategic consulting side and my own natural empathetic kind of self. Like I love the stories, and I'm like, oh, here, this quote is gonna just rip at your heartstrings and you need to hear it. Even though it is about frozen vegetables, it's still really powerful.
SPEAKER_01Yes, 100%.
SPEAKER_00And and so we were off to the races. And then similarly, when when I had that experience, like all every fiber of my being saying, no, don't do this. Okay, I gotta like looking, I called my lawyer and said, What what what does this look like? What can I do?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so I, you know, two months later, I was exited out of that firm, I was gone, and started Ignite 360. And the clients, it was like getting hit with a fire hose. Um, we had so much work coming at us, and I needed those people that had been in my life. They came around. So they were familiar to me, and there was trust that was already there. And even though they didn't necessarily know the work, we could figure that part of it out. But they I was I had this tremendous, wonderful support network.
SPEAKER_01And I want to highlight what you just said because I talk about this all the time, especially when I guest lecture with young minds, right? This is one of my favorite things to talk about, but you just said it. You don't really know what the work is, and so I often often say you're not interviewing and recruiting for the job necessarily. That's the old way that we did it. You are building relationships and connections at the human level with people. And if you like people, you're gonna find a way to work together. So I always say it doesn't really matter what you do. In a way, it does, obviously, within that industry somewhat, but you don't have to be boxed in. But you just said it. You have relationships on a human level that takes trust and empathy to then say, I really like you. How can we work together? And then you create work, you create a job opportunity, you create an internship, you create a partnership, something of what do you do, what do I do, and what can we blend together? Because I like you and I want to work with you. And I would argue that a majority of any founder business will grow first and foremost from referrals and relationships. And it's not through some, you know, referral network that's so cookie-cutter and who are you and who's your business, and who are you looking to work with, and what do you do? It's literally talking shit and just being human and literally talking not about work and business, but about you and your family and your values and holding that empathy as a human being. It's the whole person, and that's what builds that strong relationship to grow your business with people who happen to have the talents that you want and need. So it's the it's the relationship first.
SPEAKER_00It totally is. You you want to make the connection with somebody, you want to understand how somebody thinks and the way that they might think, because then you know the the skills on the job can be trained, you know, as long as you've then got and one of the issues we had because we were growing so quickly, and I and building the culture of the organization was important. We had somebody join us who came from another agency, and there was this you know, bringing the culture of the other agency, and we were still so young and so new that it was actually disrupting our culture, and ultimately the culture kind of helped him realize like, no, this isn't the right place, and he moved around.
SPEAKER_02Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but the culture of my company was always critical because I wanted a place that people enjoyed working. We had a vibe going, we were happy to see each other every day, you know, and especially as the company continued to evolve and grow, they weren't that original group, although some of them did actually stick around all the way through. It's important to make that connection. You want to understand like, is this a good thinker? Do they have a good work ethic? Am I connecting with them? So that that empathetic connection, and then therefore, do I think they have the skills? And do I have the pathway installed for them? Do I have the okay, here's the training that you're going to need? You know, you're not going to just take somebody off the street and and put them into brain surgery. But if you're like, oh, you've got the talents to be a brain surgeon, here's the path, here's the schooling, the training, the experience, the exposures that we need to give you till you get to that point.
SPEAKER_01I love that perspective because as a founder, it is our responsibility to provide that pathway for people. And I think we forget that. I think we're always thinking of what you can do to help me? How am I going to hire to grow this company or acquire, right? And so build it or buy it, right? There's that book. But you talk about building and buying in founder life. And often do we acquire, do we purchase other companies? We've purchased people. What kind of assets are we going to need here to build and buy and grow? But you hit on something that is really working in gratitude, which is the opposite way of, well, what am I going to give to this person? And as the founder, it is my responsibility leading the ship as the CEO to say, this is the kind of culture I want here, and this is what kind of path I see for you, and having that insight to say, I see this for you. Does this align with this runway of where you want to go? And this is how I could support and provide that for you, and this is how I couldn't. And I think that having those conversations is almost like talking about your exoplanning in the beginning interview, which a lot of people avoid. And I think it's so important to talk about that with new hires and partners and executives and all of the people who are going to help you grow in the early stages. You say, look, how long are you wanting to be in this company? And what are you using this part of your career for? And is it a jump-off point? And can I provide the level of interest that you're seeking right now? And is there an end to that? And to know that and have that self-awareness as a founder and the boss or the partner to say, I'll probably get you here, but I'm gonna have interest to move further, or I'm I don't see that opportunity right now, but maybe in a couple years it'll be there. Or I know people that once our work together is done, I'm I'm happy to make the introduction.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Now, I can also imagine there are some founders out there listening to this going, Ann and Rob, this sounds great, but like I gotta get shit done. And exactly I got so many other things that I'm I'm focused on. And so I think what I would uh say to them is yes, and you have an opportunity to have self-awareness about where you're at, where your organization is at, because some of these things you can't really do until you get the the you know the plane or the bus kind of built and the wheels. But great, right?
SPEAKER_01You have to build the bus and then you have to get the good people on the bus.
SPEAKER_00Get the good people on the bus and and and do that. And and it depends on the field that you're in and you know, technical skills that can maybe required, you know, and not uh moderating is an art. And so I was looking for people that had the curiosity that would lead them to being good at at practicing the art of interviewing and talking to other people. So it it's it's always different for every situation, and but this is where empathy, you know, you have to have self-empathy, you gotta understand yourself and where you're coming from and what's that connection to you, yeah, and as well as to your business, which is a separate entity from you, and what does it need in that?
SPEAKER_01Ooh, let's talk about that for a minute, too, because this was a huge lesson. Your business is a separate entity from yourself, and I'm coming at this from a brand strategist perspective who works on personal branding and business branding to say, yes, your business is you and yours, and you are the personal brand. You and I are both speakers. You're an author. I'm writing a book, right? We have these assets around us. We facilitate, we coach, we lead strategy sessions. We are the asset, so we are the business. We are selling our minds, right? We're thought leaders. I love what you said. It's still important to remember the business is separate from you. You have to create some emotional separation to view that as an entity that you're working in and on and growing that you are the brand offer. You are often the asset you're selling, but the business can exist outside of yourself. And I think I want to know your thoughts on what that means to you, because that took me a really long time. We're talking years to learn that.
SPEAKER_00And and you know, we live in an age of so much, I mean, authenticity has been important now for twelve over 25 years, probably, but it's grown to the place where you really have to show up and be genuine. And if you're a personal brand, and I'm certainly part of that, um, as you pointed out, you need to be yourself. You need to share it. Like, here's my cat. This is like Domino is here, she's you know, all my husband.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna title this episode Here's My Cat. Okay. Keep going.
SPEAKER_00Um Yeah. Uh um, yeah, God forbid.
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_00I like the domino. I've used that before, um personally. But yeah, but yes. As a founder, as a whether you're a personal brand or you're starting a business, you are so often part of the business, but you can't lose sight of who you are. And that, you know, hi, let's go talk about my midlife crisis. That was part of like my identity was just and and everything was tied up in that um work that I was I was losing myself. And so what which is you know you're losing yourself, but you're out doing this. Well, I'm doing what my clients need and I'm becoming a projection for my clients of myself, but I'm not nurturing the things, you know. I'm not I I don't have enough input in my personal life to uh fulfill and charge the batteries up and kind of create new material for the personal brand to just keep going and going and you know have the stories. So I I hope that's tracking. Yeah, it's making it's making the time for yourself.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And I think too really understanding that you as a person can actually exist with differences from your personal brand. Even that comes up in my brand therapy sessions a lot, which is a really powerful thought process to go through. That holy shit, I can actually be a person that has differences from my personal brand because who you are that you're putting out there publicly in marketing for marketing purposes can also be something that you agree to at the time that you want to put out there, but may not truly be who you are in private. And that's okay. I have a lot of clients that say, well, Ann, I'm trying to grow this business and it's my personal brand. I'm an influencer, I'm an author, and but I'm an introvert. I don't really like being in front of people. And so, you know, it is really important to understand that your personal brand doesn't necessarily have to completely reflect who you are as a person in private and intimately in safe spaces with people. Who you are in public can actually differ because it's a business, it's a brand. And how we actually bridge the gap of those two authentically without faking it or phoning it in. And we don't want to make you an extrovert, but there are some things that we could do to help you show up and shine in an introverted way that you still feel safe. And it's important that if you differ from how you have to be in this personal brand to grow, that you feel safe and supported and seen. So if you are an introvert, maybe you don't want to go do public speaking events. Maybe you're an author and you do some different type of uh book signing that's a bit more intimate, or maybe you do book signings and then you mail it to people, or you use partners who are extroverted to help you plug it, or you get a really good friend, do your book launch tour with you, and they do speaking on your behalf, and then you're just sitting there signing. Like there's a lot of different ways that we could do this, that you're truly living in your authentic purpose, that your personal brand can exist and you can show up in different ways if you differ from that as a person. You you have to remember you're separate.
SPEAKER_00And it's still being true to your values, because I could see where people can get confused about that. Like, oh, does this mean I like eat sushi in public, but that in private I would never touch the stuff? Yeah. No, it's about being true to who you are, but through being true to who you are, I'm an you know, if I'm an introvert, and I'm I'm more extroverted, but I do have my introvert moments where I'm just like, I can't. I just want to draw back. And that's okay. And but you have to know yourself. So it's back to the EQ of self-awareness and being able to understand where am I coming from? What do I need? And then how do I make that work with this other kind of thing that I've I've created. And also like, you know, we're in this uh creator time, and just before we started the show, we were talking about like the time it was taking for you to make a decision and get this sort of rebooted or whatever. And look, I I have a newsletter reading between the lines. It's supposed to come out every two weeks. Doesn't always. I had surgery on my knee um three weeks ago, and so I haven't posted anything since then because like my brain's been a little squishy um and I've been focused on the recovery. But I'm like, uh I'm not, you know, I don't know, I'm not the evening news. Like people aren't ex are Midas, like people aren't expecting that I'm gonna have an ish, you know, or go rub, it's been two weeks, where where are you? And I give myself the grace for that. You know, to let the inspiration strike. I try not to let too much time go on, but try not to make myself go crazy if I miss it. So it's been almost a month since I've dropped, and now I'm feeling like, mm-hmm. And I've got a few different topics that I want to write about.
SPEAKER_01Giving yourself that space and time to really figure out what should be the direction, right? Like we were just talking before we hit record. I have been on hiatus from OnlyFounders since Matt and I parted ways, and the last time I recorded was three or four months ago. And that scared me in a way because I thought, oh, I'm a failure and I'm not doing this podcasting thing that I said I was doing. And it's because I was forcing it. Every time I sat down to think about it, I would rebel against it or I'd get distracted or I'd find something else to do. Because I wasn't in alignment at the time I was working on other things, and then all of a sudden we pick up and it feels so aligned and it's easy. And when you wait to give it the energy that is present in the right moment to move forward, that's the beauty of founder life. We actually 99% of the time have control of when and where we work on something, and we can hit pause when we need to, and being able to be human and say, give grace, and this is going to have the time and energy. And that also takes trust. It takes trust that you know yourself well enough that you'll you'll pick that up when the time is right. And that was something I've been working on a lot over the years is trust. It's oh no, I used to freak out like forcing activation on everything because I didn't have that trust that I was going to think about it again or do it again or pick it up. If I didn't do it now, it wouldn't happen. And then I learned to really trust myself. And I said, no, Anne, you're in a season. It's life is cyclical and each day has holds its own energy. And you will pick this up if it's important and if it's in alignment. That also took trusting, you know, my relationship with God, whoever your relationship is, whatever you call that. It's the spiritual alignment with your purpose and saying, if this shit matters to me, I will find it again and it will find me. And when that happens and I actually work it work on it again, it's gonna be amazing and easy. And it's gonna all be coming into my head because my it's it's the alignment, it's the timing for it, you know? And also, I do want to say one thing that has helped me a lot in founder life is the newsletter. We use that as an example. There's a project, there's a task, there's something that you're trying to do in your business, the shoulds. I always say we eliminate the shoulds, should can fuck off, right? Because maybe that's what we call this episode should can fuck off. But literally when you say I should be recording two episodes a week, I should be sending out this newsletter every two weeks. Why? Those are always self-imposed deadlines that you just said your audience is not sitting there, Rob, it's been two weeks. Where's our newsletter? Like, people are busy. I say attention is the number one currency we have in our world today. There's so much noise. Everybody has money, people don't have money, they'll throw money at anything. It's like money is like whatever. If I have a 20 in my wallet, I don't even realize it. Like, I don't care, right? But if I have 20 on my credit card, I'm like, oh, that was $20. But cash to me is like whatever. It's sad. And when we are in this trust deficit, it's it's our attention. We give our attention to where we trust. And so if we don't have that trust with ourselves, we're not gonna give ourselves attention for that project. But what's gonna be driving you to do that stupid fucking newsletter every two weeks is your should because you self-impose that somewhere along the line that says every two weeks, Rob's gonna send out a newsletter. And why? And to who? And to who cares, right? Like nobody cares, right? And I love that quote all the time in founder life of, hey, guess what? Nobody cares. So just keep doing you and what you do because you care about yourself. Nobody else cares. Maybe your spouse, but on many days, we don't fucking care, even our spouses. And so, like the shoulds can go kiss off, right? And then when we say, Do I want to create a newsletter anymore? And that answer can be no. And you will still be okay and you will still be in business. And I asked myself that come to Jesus question a few weeks ago. I was three months off air and I said, Holy shit, this podcast is mine now. Do I want this podcast right now? And my answer was yes, a very loud yes. But I had to stop and ask because it was the should. Well, we spent all of last year developing it. We have like almost 70 episodes out there. I should be publishing two episodes a week. Holy shit, who who says? So I just want to remind all the founders here don't let should be the driving force that's taking you forward on a task, an acquisition, a hire, a project. It can't be a should. It has to be rooted in your truth. And your truth has to come from you sitting with yourself, giving time and space to think and ask yourself the damn question. Do I want to do X?
SPEAKER_00And don't let Yeah, absolutely. And don't let the should get in the way of good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_00Do you need to do two episodes a week, really?
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_00No. Is the quality going to change if you do one episode a week, one episode every two weeks? You know, I mean, and yeah, the oh, the algorithm says this, therefore you should do that. Well, yeah, but I should also have a life uh to what we were talking about earlier. I need to nurture and balance and uh thinking through how all of that works, but don't let should. I totally agree, you should not let should run your life. If I did that, I wouldn't have had the company that I had.
SPEAKER_01My gosh. Okay. Well, this just feels like an amazing place to conclude today's episode. I love that. I want to end with that again because Rob, that was profound. Don't let should take away from good. Is that how you said it?
SPEAKER_00Don't let should get in the way of good.
SPEAKER_01Of good. And good is literally coming from a place of truth and honesty with yourself and holding empathy for yourself first, which is the most amazing model and example of how you're gonna hold empathy with other people, which means giving grace, having some warmth, having some softness, but also using empathy to be assertive, using empathy to be direct and forward. And I love that. So, Rob, thank you so much for today's conversation. I want you to share with our guests all of the good places that they can find you and please tell us more about where to get your book.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. So, first thing I would love for people to do is to find me on the socials. So you can subscribe to my YouTube channel, Empathy Activist. I'm also active on Instagram, uh, LinkedIn, and I get a little snarky on Blue Sky. Um, if you're on Peloton, you can find me at Empathy Activist as well. Uh, but definitely connect with me there. And then, yes, check out the book. Uh, it is available wherever you buy books, all the retailers, indies, as well as Amazon and Barnes and Noble. Uh, it's in hardcover, it's in audiobook. I narrated it, and we brought in voice actors to play the parts of the other people. So I loved my book when I came out, but I really fell in love with my book when I did the audio recording.
SPEAKER_01I so that you're speaking my language. I just want to say every speaker I know has a book, and they always hand me an actual book, and I say, no, no, I don't read books. I love you, I love what you're doing, and this is gonna be donated to a friend. I don't read books, but it do you have an audio book? And most people don't that they narrate. And my theater sees your theater in having voice actors come do the role play. I'm gonna go listen to your audiobook. I can't wait.
SPEAKER_00Please, wherever you listen, it's on all of the audiobook platforms, and then of course it's an e-book as well. So however people want to do that, and then also check out my website, robvolpe.expert. You can sign up for my newsletter there. You can learn more about empathy. You can see all of the media appearances I've had. Other, you know, talk to me about engaging in coaching, training sessions. You want me to come and speak uh after you have Ann speak.
SPEAKER_01I paid him twenty dollars to say that, the 20 that was in my wallet.
SPEAKER_00I know which way my bread is buttered. Uh no, but I do uh very engaging speaking uh uh um engagements and and trainings and talks and kind of whatever the everything's custom. I really like to tailor things to the needs of my clients because I want them to get something out of it. I don't want to just be that one that shows up and they walk away and go, oh, that was fun and do nothing with it. I want it to I want to make an impact.
SPEAKER_01I love that. Awesome. Rob, thank you so much for your time today. It was a pleasure meeting you. And um I can't wait to follow along with your journey as you keep growing. So keep crushing it.
SPEAKER_00Can't wait. Thank you, Anne.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, have a good one. Thanks, guys, for listening. That does it for us on OnlyFounders today. I will link all of the amazing places you can find Rob. And with that, bye.