Episode 18: Gold Stars

In this episode of Show Me the Baby, I talk with my longtime friend and confidant, Jan, to talk about the idea of "gold stars." Gold stars are the need or hope to be appreciated and noticed. This notion goes back to my days in elementary school and being given a gold star sticker on my paper or test for doing well.  You may envision approval by a pat on the back by a mentor, a supervisor telling you how well you are doing, or your mother beamingly smiling at you in adoration. Jan and I discuss how we now find our achievement in the intrinsic value of a job well done.  We share our thoughts about raising children and grandchildren in ways to better help them find success in themselves without the need for continual praise.

To learn more about me and to purchase my book that outlines all of the topics I share about parenting, organization, wellness, leadership, and life skills, visit www.kristynlee.com.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Welcome to the Show Me the Baby podcast. This is your host, Kristen Lee. I am here to share and expand on the topics outlined in my book, Show Me the Baby. Short and sweet tips on parenting, wellness, organization, leadership, and life skills. Why Show Me the Baby? My lifelong friend and mentor never had the patience for lengthy explanations. His mantra was: Don't tell me about the birth, show me the baby. What I am sharing are brief, to-the-point lessons that I have learned, advice that I was given, or information gathered from others. I want to share my experiences to assist you in navigating parenting and life. The episodes are based on some of the subjects covered in my book and are unscripted, sometimes going in a direction that wasn't planned, but I think makes them more interesting. My goal is to expand on each theme, keeping in the Show Me the Baby way in 15 minutes or less. For a complete list of all the topics I discussed, you can purchase my book, ShowMeTheBaby, at Amazon.com. For more information about me and a link to purchase, go to my website, kristenlee.com. That's K-R-I-S-T-Y-N-L-E-E.com. Hello, this is Kristen Lee, and this is the Show Me the Baby Podcast. Today, my friend Jan is joining me again. Thank you for joining me on this episode. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Hi, Chris.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Hey, thanks for being here. Jan and I, well, she has the book. I don't I think you've read most of the book. I don't want to assume. But I've read the entire book. I kind of thought you had, but I didn't, I just didn't want to assume that you had. Um and in talking and bringing Jan back on, we um talked about what topics would be good for us to talk about and expand upon, because the show me the baby book are short. They're short, and then these podcasts are meant to expand a little more, even though they're still brief in nature. So the topic, today's topic is gold stars. And for those of you who grew up, um, well, I I guess in in January note, like I felt like elementary school when we at least I remember when I did well, the teacher would put a gold sticker on our papers of a job well done. So gold stars to me, and I think to you two, means we did a good job. And as we get out of school, I I think the gold stars follow many of us. The the need for wanting appreciation and getting a figurative gold star. So that's kind of if if you feel that similar way in terms of what gold stars mean.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Well, this is really interesting, Chris, because right away when I read that part of your book, I thought to myself, did I get gold stars? It turns out, it turns out, I'm a b I'm a baby boomer, and other baby boomers listening to this may agree with me. There weren't a lot of gold stars. There weren't stickers at all back then. So we didn't really get gold stars or stickers. And I started realizing that there's a generational difference with this topic. Let's start with baby boomers. So baby baby boomers, most of us were raised by uh our parents grew up in the depression. Nobody was telling them, good job, you know, every five seconds. They were out there living through a depression, living through a world war, uh, having to ration their food, uh, having to do without. So when it came time for them to parent, I think they were a little bit tougher about handing out any kind of praise. Um, and I think a lot of baby boomers were raised without the constant praise that you even hear today. And I would say that the the parents of today give far more praise than even your parents who had more losers did. Yes. Don't you see it everywhere? Yes. Yes. I mean, a baby is constantly told good job and wonderful. Okay, that that was not going on in the 50s and 60s. Now, my parents taught me very early on the satisfaction of a job well done. So I was taught that this is something intrinsic. You're going to feel good inside because of the good job that you have done. I mean, I remember doing chores at my house when I was small. And uh if I did something, as my dad would say, half-assed, he would he would call me back and say, you know, any job worth doing is worth doing right. I must have heard that a million times. And so I grew up, and I I actually do believe that to this day. Any job that you take on that's worth doing is worth doing right. And so I tried to instill that in my daughter, and I I know that that's something I always lived by. So following along with this generational difference with this, um, I looked up, you are a member of Gen X. Okay, okay. These are you and your people.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

I have no idea what I'm a member of. Isn't that horrible? Gen, I'm Gen X. I'm Gen X.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

You were born, I think. You were born between 96 and 2010. Am I right? You were born in 1970. Oh, okay. Maybe you're not Gen X. I don't know what I really want to talk about first. Okay. Okay, Gen Z uh people were born between 96 and 2010.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

And in in 2025, Forbes magazine, Forbes, they did a um some research and they interviewed business managers. And six in ten business managers said that Gen Z employees, these are the people born between 96 and 2010, need constant praise at work. And this is not said as a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

No, and and I can and I can speak, I can speak to that of having uh staff that were in that age range, and it was a challenge just for those reasons.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

So you've seen that.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Yes, I I have.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

And and I think that there you are with the concept of gold star really amped up, you know. Everyone needs a gold star being told, and I think as so many things do, it goes back to parenting. You know, good parenting. Did you raise your kid thinking that every time they did anything it was worth a gold star? I don't think you were raised that way. Again, baby boomers were not raised that way, but we're seeing more and more of that now. Um you know, I think it's it's just like happiness. You you have to find happiness within you. Um, you can't make your you can't make somebody else happy, somebody else can't make you happy. The happiness you find is something that you find within yourself. The same with praise, I think. The same with gold stars. You have to really find a way to feel proud of what you've done, if you've done a good job without others, patting you on the back.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Yes, patting you on the back and saying, What a good job you've done. And and you and I have talked over the years that we have known each other. Uh, that when, and I'll speak that you know, from my experience, I was part of an organiz. I've been I've been in lots of different organizations and groups, but I found myself, and this is where the chapter in the book came, that I I was doing work, and I just I I it almost got to the point, it's like nobody is noticing, nobody is noticing how hard I'm working. And then I finally got to the place I thought, I mean, I'm proud of what I'm doing, but nobody else in the group is really acknowledging what I'm doing, which is part of the gold star feeling. And then I realized, you know what? If I'm not feeling good about this, nobody else is appreciating it, why am I doing it? Like what, why am I continuing to do it? Am I doing it because I need, you know, the gold star? Like I need to say to myself, even, you've got to keep doing this because you can't stop, you can't remove yourself. And I think in part for me, that's where that again, the the saying of the gold star came from, because I just finally had to say to myself, you know, sometimes it's not worth it. I mean, meaning you work hard at something and you can feel good about it, but then you look around and think, well, nobody is giving me a gold star and I'm not feeling good about it. So maybe I just need to step away and not be a part of, you know, whatever it is, you know, whether it's an organization or, you know, even if it's a a career, even as if it's a career you're in or a job you have, if you you get to that point and you're constantly trying, you know, I don't know, maybe it is. In part of it's seeking approval is exactly what you're saying. It's seeking approval and realizing, you know, I can't be working for the approval of somebody else. If I'm not feeling good about this, then why am I doing it?

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Well, I think also what you're describing is that you learned that you cannot tie self-worth to what others say or don't say. Absolutely. You have to find that self-worth within you. And I think that this is not easy. None of this is easy because humans, I think, are hardwired to want recognition. I mean, we all want someone to notice when we're doing a good job. We all, I mean, deep down that's kind of because it's I think so too. Yeah, I think so too. And I think where it's particularly hard, and you touched on this, is in the professional world world. When you go out and you're working in a profession, you know, in an office or or in a business, very quickly you can start to see people being recognized who you know are not maybe doing a good job. You know, and or they're they they tend to be the people who are very good self-promoters, who are very good at saying, look at me all the time. And I don't know about you, but I was horrible at that. I couldn't do it. And I think women are not good at it by nature.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

And then and then and then you have the the credit thieves, the ones that they, you know, that let's say it's you are doing the work and they see you doing the work and they're not doing the work, but they want to take credit for it, and they will be very brass, you know, I guess brash about going forward and taking credit for the work you've done. And you I'm guessing you probably, and I won't, you know, you probably wouldn't speak up and s to the person say, you know, I actually did that.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

I'm actually the one it's very hard to do that because usually those kinds of things, at least in my profession, those kinds of things came out in a group meeting where there you are sitting around the table and you find out that the guy across from you is pushing an idea that you talked to him about the day before over coffee. And all of a sudden you can't go, hey, that was my idea. But you, you know, you feel the hurt. It's obvious, you know, that that it hurts, that that kind of thing hurts. And I don't really know what I I think just maturity and telling yourself, you know, like you have done, like you have done, uh, I'm no longer willing to put myself out 115% on this. Uh, I just, you know, I need to step back now. Uh those are wise decisions that you make once you become a mature person, and that you realize that that, like I said, that your self-worth is coming from what you know about yourself and not what somebody else says about about you. I mean, I I yeah, I sat in many meetings like that. It happens so much in in a an academic setting where I work my entire life. Um, and I think it happens everywhere, but it comes down to what are you going to know about yourself? And those, yeah, those gold stars aren't going to be coming.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

No. And I and I think too that I've seen it happen that the the people who are the credit takers, meaning the ones that aren't doing the work but take the credit, it eventually, I feel like most of the time it will shake itself out. It may take a while, but it if someone's chronically doing it and not doing the work, eventually the people around them figure it out, whether it's a supervisor, boss, or just the co, you know, co-workers are the first ones to see it, because typically another coworker is the one that's doing the work when the other person isn't. So I guess it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

What a morale killer that can be. You know, I was just looking at my notes here again, and I one of the things I did want to say back to you and your generation, because you are Gen X. Um Gen the Forbes study found that um people in the Gen X category, you actually don't need a lot of praise in today's business world. You would rather have, like, uh just for an example, a couple days off, you know, a little bit more in your check, a raise or something. You don't need to have as much praise as evidently the Gen Z employees who are needing constant praise. So I again I go back to this is really a generational difference, and I think it has so much to do with parenting. I mean, God's God save us in years to come when you've got children who grew up being told that every single thing they did was perfect.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Now, now, as a grandmother of a is she is your granddaughter five?

SPEAKER_01 13:42

She just turned seven.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Oh my, she's seven. Yes. Oh, I just think of her still being as a like a little a little one. So how do you see, and I don't know what generation she is, but do are you seeing a difference with her as you, you know, because I know you're very integral in her life and and you know, helping to, you know, your the village. I mean, you're helping to raise her with your daughter.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Well, I think I think what I like to do is I do like to read, I like to keep up on current child development research. And um I've done a lot of reading um where maybe not just saying good job all the time, but finding a better way to say things that are a little bit more specific, and it allows you also to give some guidance at the same time. So, like for a seven-year-old, uh, say she draws a picture and it's particularly detailed and and you know you want to admire it, um, it's more than just saying, wow, that's a great picture. Tell me about it. And you know, you can even go a little bit further and say, you know, I really like the way you used um those colors right there. Can you tell me why you chose that color? Get them involved a little bit more in the discussion. So you're not just handing out verbatim gold stars, but you are, you know, you're trying to get a discussion going and making it a little bit deeper than that. And then I think also you have to be willing to say sometimes, I think you could have done a better job on this right here. Let's try it again. You know, you can say that to children. You don't have to, I mean, you're not going to crush their spirit by challenging them a little bit. So that's what's a little bit different. And I think for me.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

And I think too challenging them in a safe environment with you. Yes, loving. Get and and and and gets them prepared for the outside world. That that if if they're raised in an environment where everything is one, I mean everything they do is magical all the time, I think that sets them up for total failure because they are going, they are going to go out, whether it's you know, public school, private, wherever. I mean, out into the world. And if they have this expectation or this, well, just the feeling that they've all they've been praised so much their entire life and at home, and then they go out and into the world, and you know, it's not magical. It's not always magical. Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

I think that's what this um Forbes study is saying about these managers. I mean, they're spending a lot of their time having to reassure these Gen Z employers, employees, to keep on doing your work. You don't have to hear every five seconds. So I think you aren't doing your children much of a favor if you um if you raise them to believe that they're going to go out in the world, everyone's gonna think they're great. I mean, my dad, oh my gosh. My dad used to say to me all the time, Jan, the world does not revolve around your ass. No, if you knew my dad, you know he wouldn't stop it just you. The world does revolve around your ass. And I took that to heart and I always just thought, yeah, you're right, it doesn't. And then when you get out into the real world, you realize, hey, that's correct. It does.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

No. No, and and but there are still plenty of people that think it does. I mean, and that's you know, that's on them. But but but yes, I think as a I mean, for me as a parent that I wanted and still mean my girls are in their 20s, but I have said to them often, you know, look around, like be look around you, pay attention to what's around you. Don't, don't, you know, everything does not have to do with you. Or if somebody is mean to you or doesn't notice you, that speaks more to who they are, not to who you are.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

That's right. And also you don't, I always have said to my daughter and others, you also don't know what's going on in their life. So you can't really decide, you know. And now that you bring this up, it I'll tell you one thing I try to do regarding praise as I've gotten to be an old woman is that you are not an old woman. Oh, yes, I am. Anyway, when I'm I'm working now in a another volunteer group up here, which is what I've done a lot of my life. I've worked on different projects just like you have. And I have really tried to praise others. When I see people in a committee working really hard, when I see a person at the head who's leading it, who's putting out the ideas and then doing all the grunt work behind the scenes, I make it a point to go up to them personally and just say, you know, you're doing a fabulous job. If it weren't for you, we wouldn't have come this far. Something personal like that, or even drop them a note, because they may not get it from everybody, but if they can just get one little piece of encouragement sometimes, I think it means the world.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

I I agree. So you kind of are giving out gold stars. Yeah, I do it in my own little quiet way now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

I mean, but that but just don't give them out to everybody.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

No, and but but you're not waiting around. I think the difference too is you are not waiting around and and whatever the situation is, waiting around you know, waiting for someone to notice you. No, you've turned it around. Yes, but you've turned it around and you're noticing other people and you're acknowledging other people. So in a and again, figuratively, you're giving you gold stars, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, I do think again, it comes with getting older and realizing what really matters in life, and the gold stars that others give you don't really matter that much. You've come to that realization also, and um, and and then you turn around and give them to others, and that's and that's worth it.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Well, and I think, and and again, I because I have a lot of these conversations with my daughters, that when you are giving praise or again, gold stars, quote quote, is that it can fill you up more inside of you versus even receiving the praise. I mean, I I've and when you see you've done, you've you've acknowledged someone and you've complimented someone, that helps raise that other person up. Even if, you know, they, you know, they may need it, they may not need it, it doesn't matter. But but um, and before we started the podcast, you said something very nice to me. I mean, very kind, and it I it caught me off guard a little bit, you know, but but you you praised me for the job I'm doing with my book and the podcast, and and I noticed it, and thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Oh, aren't you sweet? Well, you know, I now you know I don't give those stars out quickly and easily genuine on my part.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Well, but it but but it's a it I think too, maybe again, we've kind of circled around about the gold star idea, and maybe, you know, first with the expectation or the hope of getting them, but then as we have gotten older and more confident, I think more confident and secure in who we are, um, I think that lends itself for us to be able to look at others and acknowledge, which I think is yeah, that that's exactly the key.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

You you get to a point where you're mature and you understand um that it that it means more to others to give it out. I mean, all of us, I think all of us know people who have a wall full of plaques in their office and get it admired and uh you know accredited for so many things that they were a small part of. And at one point in your career, you may think that's important and you want to do that. And I think we all go through that. You have a little bit of jealousy when that kind of thing happens. As you get older, you realize what those are worth, which is very little. Absolutely. Yeah, it's the people that you touch, uh, those that you have good relationships with, those in your profession where you had each other's backs and you work together toward a common goal. Those are the those are the things that matter. So I, you know, and it comes with you just have to be old before you understand.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

I I I I think and it's the experience, the experience of going through and and as you said, you were a part of the, you know, in the academia for your whole career, and you know, the pressure I know in academia for research, you know, doing research and and and the pressure that that people get, but then also the accolades that people will get for doing certain research. And that that is a big part of the environment that you were a part of, um, in terms of not necessarily that you were in well, that you were. Doing the actual research, but you around people that were doing that all the time, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

That's right. And you know, you some people are really good at that in an academic setting. If you want to talk about that for a minute, some people are really, really good at that, but their skills with students are poor. My skills were more with student interaction. That's where my that's where I think I those were my strong points. And I love that part of it. Uh, but there were others who were uh around me who got constant recognition. And I knew that behind the scenes they were treating students horribly. So I thought, you know, you you see that happen, and you just have to say, it's okay. It doesn't deter me from what I know is is best here. But yeah, those kind of things hurt, but as you get older and as you get wiser, they stop hurting.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

And again, I think you realize, and after you go through enough experiences of again taking it to heart when it did hurt, because well, just speaking for myself, when I was younger, when I did the work and it felt good to be acknowledged, and then you weren't acknowledged, and that kind of feeling of well, it's I guess it would be called sadness, but yeah, that then you go through all that and then I've you do it enough, and you have those feelings enough and you realize this is this is why do I care? Why I've got to care for myself, and I also want to be a role model to my my daughters. I want them to see me, not not doing the work because somebody's gonna notice me, but doing the work, whatever that work may be, because it's makes me feel good or I'm doing something to be helpful to somebody else, whether I get accolades or not. It's it's the it's the intrinsic part of it.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

It totally is. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Well, I know we talked earlier. Can the show me the baby go on longer? But because we you well, you and I know when we start talking, an hour will fly by and when we try to schedule a talk, and and and we can't catch up at all in an hour because we don't, you know, now that you don't live where I live anymore, we don't get to see each other, so we have to schedule phone calls. But I think we could we we need to schedule like a retreat of like days, and we probably still wouldn't be able to catch up.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

I think that would be a great idea sometime. We'll see if that can happen. Yes, yeah. Did we did we make our time to do that? No, we didn't.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

No, we're a little over. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. We're close, but I I feel like this is kind of the the transition point when we should um I should say thank you for joining me. And yeah, and I think we covered the topic on a lot of um different angles for the listener, and I think so. Yeah, and I hope you join me again for another episode.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Please have me back. I really have fun doing this. Me too. All right, thanks, Dan.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Thank you for listening to the Show Me the Baby podcast, and I hope you join me again for another episode. My book, Show Me the Baby, is available at Amazon.com. To learn more about me and a link to order, visit my website, Kristen Lee.com. That's K R I S T Y N L E E.com.