Episode 1 - Grumpy Jews (who read)

Marti and Jonathan talk about being "grumpy", being New Yorkers, the problems with cocktails today, and most importantly, reading and books.

Transcript

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Jonathan: [00:00:00] This is episode one of Grumpy Jews who read, enjoy. 

Welcome to Grumpy Jews. Open parentheses who read parentheses thanks to Sadie Freirich for that title. So I am, uh, Jonathan Freirich, and I am joined by Marti Reich. And we are connected not just by funny last names, but by the fact that Marti happens to be my mother. And so we are, um. We are not grumpy by nature, but we're using grumpy Jews because there's this thing about what it means to be Jewish, a Jewish optimist, and both of us are New Yorkers after a sort.

Uh, Marti is a lifelong New Yorker, Mom. How long have you lived in New York City?

Marti: 70. Six years. 

Jonathan: Well, [00:01:00] you, you weren't all those years in New York City, you were slightly outside New York City. 

Marti: That's true. I was slightly out of New York, but I always thought I was a New York City person, 

Jonathan: whereas your other child, my sister does not count me as a New Yorker any longer.

Marti: No, 

Jonathan: because while I was born and raised in New York, I haven't lived in New York while 

Marti: that's true. 

Jonathan: Right? So in the latest New York Times, "Are you a New Yorker quiz" I did not get all those questions right because I haven't been in New York recently enough to know that there are green cabs.

Marti: There are green caps and they can't go below 95th Street, I think, or 96th Street. 

So you really, you don't know. That's right. Your sister's correct.

And I wasn't raised here, but I was raised on Long Island, which is a fringe. But I think what we have to talk about is, are we grumpy or are we not grumpy?

And most importantly, how much we read. 

Jonathan: It's [00:02:00] true, but why are New Yorkers thought of as grumpy or rude? 

Marti: Hmm. I think it's, a misjudgment of people who don't know us. We are generous and caring. We help the stranger. We're also giving, 

Jonathan: I think we are all those things. And I think what people often misinterpret is that New York is often crowded.

And that the way we cope with the crowds as New Yorkers is we have sort of a very narrow personal space. That means before we're going to engage, we have to sort of guard ourselves because we have to maintain our personal space when we're crowded, you know, shoulder to shoulder in the subway. 

Marti: Because I talk to people on the subway all the time and I definitely talk to people on buses, but I do wanna tell you things that I am grumpy about.

Jonathan: What are you grumpy about? 

Marti: I am grumpy about cocktail menus in [00:03:00] restaurants. 

I like a drink. A drink is a drink. A drink is a bourbon or a vodka or a drink, but it isn't five different ingredients that I have to spend a lot of time reading. So I just want a drink.

I'm grumpy about it. 

Jonathan: So, so, okay. But, but, but a good, a good Manhattan, for example. 

Marti: Yes. That's okay. 

Jonathan: Might have five ingredients. 

Marti: Hmm. But that's an acceptable drink. It's been around. 

Jonathan: It's an important topic and, and I wanna get into it, but I, but we need to, we need to define terms first. 

Marti: Okay. Thank you. 

Jonathan: First of all. 

Marti: Yes. 

Jonathan: We, we are, we are, we are grumpy about this because we appreciate it. So this is, this is like. At some point or another you turned to Ginny and me.

I think it was you. It may have been some, no, it wasn't you. It was somebody else. Somebody else turned to Ginny, to whom I happen to be married, who isn't a New [00:04:00] Yorker, but is so similarly sort of critical thinker and said. Why do you go to the movies? You come back and all you do is talk about how terrible the movie was and, and we're like, no, no, no.

We really enjoyed that movie, but here are all the things that we think could have been better.

We're, we've got more to talk to on about, on cocktails. I just wanted the, the grumpiness is sort of a critical eye that people here as grumpiness, we're not really grumpy about cocktails.

We love cocktails. 

Marti: That's 

Jonathan: right. We're grumpy about the crappy presentation of cocktails in restaurants right now because I am with you. Right. 

Marti: Okay. 

Jonathan: But of course that, but, but the, you know, this is the, this is the thing, right? So. I, for example, do not understand why people would have an alcoholic beverage that doesn't taste like alcohol, like what you're saying. But it turns out that this phenomenon has existed for a long time 

Marti: and I like it.

I happen to like it because I think a lot of us should not be drinking so much anyway. 

Jonathan: For sure. But you know why we should [00:05:00] have, you know, when I was a younger person, there were wine. Spritzers or wine coolers, right? These, these were pre-processed alcoholic drinks that were made to taste not like alcohol or, or you know, the Zena, they had a, a, you know, alcoholic seven up.

Now they have hard seltzers. These are not drinks. Well, this is what we are grumpy about, right? Yeah. So you, you show up to, you show up to a restaurant and you're gonna pay 10 or 15 or $25 for a cocktail. In New York City, it's $25 for a cocktail, right? 

Marti: Correct. Correct. 

Jonathan: And, and you want it to feel like a drink.

So a Manhattan that has been tailored slightly differently, right, because a Manhattan has, you know, bourbon or rye, no, it's okay. Red vermouth and, and some other things, but it still tastes good. [00:06:00] Okay. What did you wanna talk about? 

Marti: Well, our title is Grumpy Jews and we're not, I, as you have pointed out before, we're really optimistic people.

We just, um, have, uh, comments about a lot of things that cross our. Our perception during the day. I think we wanna talk about books because most of the people who know you, and most of the people, all the people who know me, know that books are a major part of our lives. So, 

Jonathan: so here's a question. Here's a question, mom, should we, should, should you finish a book?

Marti: Yes and no. You should finish it if it's giving you pleasure and if you're learning from it, and if the writing is joyful and thought provoking, you should not finish it if you hate it. 

Jonathan: When did you first give your self permission to not finish a book? 

Marti: That's a good question because when I grew up, you had to finish a book.

At [00:07:00] least your grandmother used to say that. I think it wasn't until I was pretty much an adult and I realized I was very busy and reading a book and I didn't have time to read something that I really didn't like anymore. And I've really gotten pretty selective and I do not finish a lot of books. What I have learned, this is most important.

Jonathan: It's more important this, I think this first of all is beautiful teaching because one of the things that we aren't, I am not good at is I'm not good at self-forgiveness, giving myself grace. And so 

Marti: you give yourself permission to not finish a book. 

Jonathan: Right. I never give myself permission to not finish a book.

Yes. Well, no. I have. I have, but it's been rare. It's been rare. Mostly I have given myself permission to not finish books that are recommended to me by other people that turn out to be duds. 

Marti: You feel guilty? 

Jonathan: No. That [00:08:00] then I'm okay. I'm okay not finishing. You know, because it depends on the relationship.

Right? You know, some of my relationships are entirely based on the fact that I take book recommendations. Seriously. 

Marti: I get that. However, I think, but a lot of people suggest books that are popular, that are selling very well. And that's not always going to be what I'm gonna enjoy. And I have started dipping back into time and finding older books that I somehow missed and having reading them now.

So here's the thing, I think everybody should give themselves permission to start a book and just say, I don't like this. 

Jonathan: Have you ever gotten angry after you started a book and gotten upset, upset, frustrated with the book? 

Marti: I sure have, especially if I bought it and didn't take it out of the library. Oh, yeah.

[00:09:00] I'm real angry that I got sold this bill of goods, but I, I, I don't do that anymore. I read lots of reviews. I talk to people before I start a book, so I have some information at my disposal. But now. The next step is how long do you read before you finally give it up?

And I, I would say a hundred pages is a fair amount of judgmental time, but I will go further if it's something that I think I should do. So it's really a case by case situation. 

Jonathan: All right, so, so this leads to the question of, we had this experience this summer where you recommended a book to me, but now you are cautious about recommending books to me because I did the unthinkable.

I read farther in the book after you had given up [00:10:00] on it. And then said, oh no, no, mom, it's actually worth reading. So I forced you to pick it up again, 

Marti: and it was okay. I don't remember which book it was, but it was okay. The other thing that happens is if I recommend a book and I haven't finished it and then it isn't good, then I have a lot of problems.

So I'm not doing that anymore. I'm only recommending books that I have finished. 

Jonathan: Interesting. Because you're not, you're not gonna The good, the book could have gone bad, 

Marti: it could have gone bad, and I don't wanna give that to somebody. 

Jonathan: Well, that seems, that seems reasonable. 

Marti: We gonna start to come up with some titles in this podcast.

Jonathan: The book that in question that we are talking about 

Marti: Yeah. 

I didn't like Better Living Through Birds 

Jonathan: Through Birding.

You didn't like that? 

Marti: Yeah. 

Jonathan: Why not 

Marti: boring and repetitive.

Jonathan: Mothers and Sons. A Novel by Adam Haslett. 

Marti: Oh [00:11:00] yeah.

Jonathan: The reason why you recommended it to me. 

Marti: Yeah. 

Jonathan: Was because there, there were, there were, there was this relationship between two women.

Right. And they, and they hosted retreats, 

Marti: right? Yeah. 

Jonathan: For, for women in Vermont. Yeah. And it sounded good at the outset. 

Marti: Yeah. 

Jonathan: There were some interactions and then some of it wasn't so great, but it did get better. 

Marti: Yeah. There are books that I will really, really recommend, I just haven't told you about one this week.

Please 

Jonathan: tell us 

Marti: the known world by Edward Jones. Edward P. Jones 

Jonathan: Uhhuh. 

Marti: Um, it's about slavery in Its great. And I want you to put it on your list also. 

Jonathan: Okay. Then 

Marti: maybe 

Jonathan: "The Known World" by Edward P. Jones. One of the most acclaimed novels in recent memory. The known world is a daring and ambitious work by Pulitzer Prize winner Edmund P. Jones.

Marti: Right. And, and it's old, I think it's 10 years or more. 

Jonathan: It's old. [00:12:00] No, it's first published, uh, September 1st, 2003. 

Marti: Okay. And I found it. I don't know how I found it, but I found it. And that's what I'm saying about going back in time. And this is a great book. 

Jonathan: So this is a, this is a very important thing I think I, I think, I think this is an important thing to recognize in reading is that.

We have, there's a time gap between books that are always recommended because they're classics and then sort of our desire to read something new. I am constantly trying to read something new and updated, 'cause I'm trying to read the latest thinking on social and political issues on the one hand. On the other hand, there are some books that really ought to be read regardless of when they were written and, and I think.

There's, there's a gap, right? It takes a long time before a book is called a classic. [00:13:00] But there are books that were written, you know, when I was a kid that we now call classics. And, uh, but a book written in the early double aughts doesn't seem like it's that long ago that it would be a classic, but it's still, it was a it, it may or may not have been a great book when it came out, and it's still worth reading even though it was published in 2003.

And I think. You know, we're caught in this cultural desire for the new always, and I think 

Marti: the new is so perfect or good. That's right. I have a lot of friends. Now remember, you and I are two different generations, my friend. 

My friends, the, the recurring, uh, uh, cry that I hear is I can't find a good book.

And if you go onto the list and I look at Good Reads, the New York Times, Guardian, you name the lists, the Wall Street Journal, I get lists and lists and lists, and there aren't a lot of great books out there. So when I found this one, and, and let me tell you something else. I have learned [00:14:00] to do something called curating and I curate lists.

I'm not gonna tell you to read a lot of the things that I read. Um, I know you wanted me to read "Ancillary Justice" 

Jonathan: Well, because I wanted you to read some, you, you said should, should you broaden your horizons and read some sci-fi. 

Marti: And I did start it and the writing is really good. Um, I'm just not sure I can get into the plot.

I'm gonna go back to it. I'm gonna go back to it. Okay. I think we've, um, I wanna. 

Jonathan: I, I wanna, I, I wanna cover a couple of other things before we finish. 

Marti: Okay. 

Jonathan: But what did, what did you wanna say? 

Marti: Well, there are a lot of big books out there right now that I have really taken umbridge with. 

Jonathan: Oh, yes. Like what?

Marti: Well, there's a big hot look out there now called [00:15:00] Flashlight by Susan Choi. Boy. It's, I didn't really hate it, but, but to do about it is just too much. That's one that there's a real lot of todo and then there Oh, and then, okay. We'll talk about it. So 

Jonathan: So why do you think what, what, 

Marti: I don't get it. I just don't get it. The writing is okay. Um, it's just you don't waste your time. 

Jonathan: Okay. Well, so this is important, right? It's, it, it now and, and what the type of reader you are, which is different from a lot of other people is right. Literally in your, in your, in your curating of books, not just for others, but for yourself, right?

You do a lot of reading about reading. 

Marti: I do. I do. 

Jonathan: That most, most people 

Marti: do not. Lot of reading about reading. 

Jonathan: Most people do not do that. 

Marti: I also read, you know, mediocre books that are just sort of light, airy, [00:16:00] what people used to call beach reading. And I'll do that when I really need something to just sort of.

It's like watching television, right? 

Jonathan: Airport reading. 

Marti: That's right. Right. And it's like watching Grey's Anatomy that I enjoy it, but you know, it's not really inspired. It's 

Jonathan: not, it's not improving your life. 

Marti: I mean, I'm reading Mona's Eyes now, but we'll talk about that another time because that's such an important book.

But not for everybody. Not for everybody. 

Jonathan: All right, so we've covered this. I. I wanna, we talked about one thing that we're grumpy about cocktails, 

Marti: right? We have to think of other things. I'm not that grumpy about other things. 

Jonathan: No. What I'd like to think, what I'd like you to talk about is something that you're not grumpy about.

The opposite of grumpy. So one of the things that made you, what was delighting to you in the last little while was your ability to get an earlier appointment with rheumatologist. 

Marti: Yeah. [00:17:00] Which is why all of our grandchildren should be rheumatologists. But, um, so what, it was a great moment in my week, a few weeks ago because, so what happened?

I met a gatekeeper at Mount Sinai Hospital who makes appointments for doctors, and she and I just got along and I just said to her, you know, you, you are great. And the reason that she. Moved me up the list because what I called, I got a, a doctor's appointment like two months, hence, and I said to her. So tell me something.

There's a problem. You're the second rheumatologist I've tried to get an appointment with and it's always two months out. And she said it, 

Jonathan: it was three months or four months out. 

Marti: Three months. It was April, you're right. And I was calling in October. 

Jonathan: Right. So that's six months. 

Marti: Six months. She said, well, it's a problem in New York.

There aren't enough rheumatologists. I said, wow. [00:18:00] She said, it's a niche. I said, well, I have two grandchildren now in college and a few more going next year. I now know what I'm gonna do. All of them have to be rheumatologists. And she started to laugh and she said, I'll put you up on the list 'cause you made me laugh.

And then two days later, I got an appointment for the following week. 

Jonathan: So this is the thing that's 

Marti: a really important thing to happen in New York City. You don't get appointments with the top rheumatologist at Mount Sinai in a week, but I 

Jonathan: did. No, this, this doesn't happen. And this is, this is the, the flip side of being quote unquote grumpy is that we are always on the lookout.

For making relationships. 

Marti: That's right. And you 

Jonathan: can, and connecting with 

Marti: people counts. And so we're not grumpy, we are cheerful about something as sort of amazing as that. 

Jonathan: So, and as, as [00:19:00] our, as your granddaughter noted when we were studying for her bat mitzvah the other day, it turns out the rabbis even call God being sarcastic.

We found a classic, a classic text talking about God using a sar, our sarcastic tone, and so that some people interpret our sarcasm as grumpiness. And it's just, it's not that. Yeah, it's, we are trying to make light and have a sense of humor in a world that sometimes is not so easy to make, make light, 

Marti: it's make 

Jonathan: light of, it's not 

Marti: so great Right now, it's not so great right now, except New Jersey is great in Virginia is great and Georgia's great.

So there's some light, light there. 

Jonathan: So the, the, the phrase for being a Jewish optimist that I like to use is, it could be worse, 

Marti: it could be worse. But right now there are certain elements that couldn't be worse, but we'll, we'll, we'll go on. Anyway, this was good. 

Jonathan: So thank you all for listening. If [00:20:00] you've listened and we hope there, there will be more, uh, grumpy Jews who read to come, and we wish everybody a great day and a good week.

I.