Move Well, Live Well, Perform Well

Neuroscientist Explains Why Our Brain Struggles to Switch Off | Sophie Hascher

• Simon Gilchrist

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Modern life is placing unprecedented demands on the human brain.

From constant notifications and digital stimulation to chronic stress, poor sleep, and highly rewarding foods, many of the environments we live in today are fundamentally different from those our brains evolved to handle.

In this episode, we sit down with Sophie Hascher, neuroscientist, neuro-wellness strategist, and founder of BrainFlowElite, to explore how modern lifestyles are reshaping cognition, behaviour, emotional regulation, and long-term brain health.

With a multidisciplinary background spanning neuroscience, psychology, neurofeedback, behavioural science, and longevity, Sophie shares insights into how our reward systems, nervous systems, and cognitive resilience are being challenged in the modern world.

A key focus of the conversation is dopamine and reward processing. Sophie explains what dopamine is actually doing in the brain, why it is often misunderstood, and how modern technologies, social media, ultra-processed foods, and digital environments increasingly compete for our attention by leveraging the brain's reward circuitry.

We also explore addictive behaviours and nervous system dysregulation, discussing why some individuals are more vulnerable to compulsive behaviours, how chronic stress can become neurologically reinforcing, and whether high performers can sometimes mistake nervous system dysregulation for ambition, productivity, or success.

The discussion extends into sugar cravings, emotional regulation, sleep, metabolism, and the growing evidence linking physiological health to cognitive performance. Sophie explains how sleep deprivation, chronic stress, blood sugar instability, and hormonal changes can influence decision-making, impulse control, and reward-seeking behaviours.

Beyond understanding the problem, we explore practical solutions. We discuss the role of movement, recovery, intentional rest, and neurofeedback in supporting nervous system regulation and long-term cognitive wellbeing.

Finally, Sophie introduces the concept of "brain capital" — the idea that cognitive health, emotional resilience, and neurological performance may become some of the most valuable personal and societal assets of the future. We explore why preserving brain health could become one of the defining challenges of modern longevity medicine.


🎙️ In This Episode, We Cover

• How modern environments are affecting the brain
• Dopamine, reward systems, and human behaviour
• Why social media, technology, and ultra-processed foods are so compelling
• The neuroscience of attention and instant gratification
• Addictive personalities and nervous system dysregulation
• Why some people are more vulnerable to compulsive behaviours
• Stress addiction, productivity addiction, and high-performance culture
• Sugar cravings and reward processing
• The impact of chronic stress on the brain and nervous system
• Cognitive overload, burnout, and emotional regulation
• The relationship between sleep, hormones, metabolism, and behaviour
• How exercise influences dopamine and nervous system regulation
• Neurofeedback and brain training explained
• The concept of brain capital and cognitive resilience
• Longevity, brain health, and the future of human performance
• Practical strategies to reduce overstimulation and protect cognitive health


🎯 Who This Episode Is For

• Anyone feeling overwhelmed, stressed, or mentally fatigued by modern life
• Professionals navigating high-performance environments
• People interested in neuroscience, psychology, and behaviour change
• Individuals looking to improve focus, resilience, and emotional regulation
• Those interested in longevity, brain health, and cognitive performance
• Clinicians, coaches, and practitioners working in health and wellbeing


🎙️ Powered by Mayfair Health

At Mayfair Health, we specialise in recovery, performance, and proactive wellness. Whether you're looking to optimise your health, improve resilience, or better understand how your brain and body respond to modern life, our multidisciplinary team is here to help.

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SPEAKER_00

Welcome to another podcast of Move Well, Live Well, Perform Well. I am super excited to today because we're going to be talking about cognitive function, neuroscience, and how life impacts our brain and our brain function, and what is a massive area in terms of society and maybe it's underplayed. So today I have Sophie Hasher with us today. Hope I pronounced that okay. Sophie is a neuroscientist, a neurowellness strategist, and founder of Brain Flow Elite, a platform working at the intersection of neuroscience, cognitive performance, longevity, and brain health. She has a multidisciplinary background spanning new neuroscience, psychology, neurofeedback, and behavioral science. Sophie's work explores how modern environments shape cognition, nervous system regulation, resilience, and long-term cognitive well-being. She holds master's degrees in both neuroscience and psychology, alongside certifications in neurofeedback, psychotherapy, and behavioral coaching. Alongside her academic work, Sophie works extensively within the longevity, wellness and impact investing space, advising leaders, luxury wellness brands, and private communities on topics related to cognitive resilience, nervous system optimization, and the future of brain health. Her work increasingly focuses on the concept of brain capital, the idea that cognitive health, emotional resilience, and neurological performance are becoming some of the most valuable human and economic assets of modern society. She's particularly interested in how modern lifestyles, including chronic stress stress, digital overstimulation, poor sleep, and high performance urban living are reshaping human behavior, reward systems, and long-term brain health. That's quite a lot. You've been busy.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Welcome, Sophie.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, many people say I had different lives. So I feel like I lived, you know, for 30, 40 years, and always something else is changing. I mean, I worked across the globe and lived across the globe, so I feel like I've experienced so much, and it's just amazing the way that I was able to integrate brain health into so many different cultures and so many different environments, and people are really understanding how important the brain is at the moment. So I feel like the brain is really booming, which is very exciting to be part of. Cool.

SPEAKER_00

So we're gonna start with the modern brain, and we're gonna dive into and just build a little bit of a foundation for some of your work. So what originally drew you into that sort of neuroscience and behavior, behavioral area and sort of long that the longevity space?

SPEAKER_04

I feel like neuroscience is really underrated. Like now it's having a more prominent space in healthcare and the conversations that we're having about everyday life. But before that, before I started neuroscience, I did luxury marketing. So I came from a marketing background and actually experienced panic attacks. And I was like, okay, I really need to understand what's happening to me, what's happening to the brain, what's happening, you know, in terms of my psychology. And that's how I really was interested to then moving from this marketing background to going into science and understanding how does the brain work, how can we make a positive impact in society and especially specifically in mental health. There's a lot of things that in the West I feel like we're very focused on pharmaceuticals, and we kind of brush off things. And I made it really my mission to integrate this neuroscience with the holistic healing and went to Asia, worked there, really understood how the culture is and why are they happier than us, even though they have less in terms of material.

SPEAKER_00

Very true. Yeah. Okay, so this grew from a from personal experience.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Okay. Interesting. So maybe this leads on to the next question really nicely. Do modern environments fundamentally change how brains function? I mean, you've just alluded to the fact that you've had panic attacks in your in your marketing role. I myself has have had sort of panic attacks in the past. Um it's not a great place to be and not sort of understand what's going on. So is this modern society that that that leads to that?

SPEAKER_04

Oh, 100%. I mean, you experience panic attacks. I think you can also relate to the fact that you can't really control anything. Like you're in this state and it's kind of coming through waves and you just have to ride it through. And it's so debilitating because you don't really have full control of your life. And I feel like societies that we have, especially here in Europe or in the US, are very focused on always s having so many simulations at once. Like whether it's always being on call with the phone, um, you know, social media is always there, we can compare ourselves. Um, we have emails are always coming in, different time zones.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So you can reply. I don't know, let's say that you're awake at 2 a.m., you're like, okay, let me have a look, what's going on, I don't know, in Asia, in Hong Kong, Australia, etc., and just reply to them. And there's always this need of being available all the time. And I think all of these technologies, the high stress of being available just really creates this space that we're struggling in.

SPEAKER_00

So as humans, we've sort of built a society where we're overstimulated a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Okay. So what does that do to our nervous systems? And then perhaps what does it do to the brain? How does it rewire the brain?

SPEAKER_04

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah, I mean, brilliant question, because we have all these things that are constant overstimulation. The brain doesn't really get a break, let's say. So because we always try to fill this void of silence with either like watching a film or scrolling on social media, replying to emails, working, we don't really have this downtime to really think about what we actually really want to take a break and to take a pause. I mean, when we think, for instance, about athletes, they really understand when is the time to really push and when is it time to take a break. And they see that this break is most athletes, not all athletes. Not all athletes in an ideal world.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um, they understand that this break is also productive. And I feel like we don't really do that outside of sports.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So the way we live in modern society, we almost there's there's a need to push. It's it's it's it's more, it's more, it's more, you know. And it's interesting, I've got two boys, and I really try to encourage them to get bored.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

To sit at home. No, we're not doing anything today. We're not going to I just want you to chill. I want you to be able to be at home and get bored because there's so much stimulation. You know, there's so many activities that they do, there's so much sport that they do, and that's amazing. But it's I I feel it's also important for them to be able to just calm down and regulate that that nervous system somewhat.

SPEAKER_04

100%. And I feel like this is also the time where they can nurture that creativity. If we're thinking about the brain, and when we don't do anything, the default mold network will be activated, and that's when you can also mind wonder. It's when you go from one idea to another, when you have those creative um outlook on live about things that they want to do, so it's definitely brilliant that they can be bored and have the opportunity to be more creative and also healthy upbringing.

SPEAKER_00

If we just loop back a little bit, I explained to a lot of patients that we are originally hunter-gatherers.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Our brains and our bodies were designed to, from a physical perspective, run, climb, swim. Definitely not cycle, but but but you know, wrestle, you know, with uh with the will to be used or whatever it may be. And then we we rest. We sit round the campfire, we squat to keep our hips mobile, to keep our spines mobile, and and then we have chill time. And is that what's led to our brains and our bodies just weren't designed for this modern environment that we live in?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I mean definitely. I think the brain is not really catching up a hundred percent to all the technologies we have. Yeah. If we're just thinking about AI, for instance. And like the brain structures. Let's say that a child is using AI and for its childhood development and only relying on AI on what is the specific answer, the mathematical um tables that you don't have to learn. I mean, AI can do everything, but I feel like you don't what has been shown in research is that the specific important brain areas are not being developed in childhood. So for instance, the resilience network, um, also rational thinking can be not as strong because they're relying on AI, and especially when kids are growing up with this, those structures are being lost or not even being formed at all. So this is something to be really mindful about. But also when we're thinking back about, you know, ages, uh, you know, the the hunter-gatherers, hunter-gatherers, this was a completely different world. Also, when we're thinking about the food they had, it was much more natural. It's not this high-processed food that we have all the time. The axis also of food that we're having, it's like whenever you're feeling stressed or anxious or depressed, you might gravitate towards food to compensate. And this is obviously then also not only having an impact on your physical health, because then you might be more prone to obesity rates and overweight, etc., but also on your brain and how your cognition is, because all of these auto-processed foods will have an effect on your brain, whether it's a brain fog, whether it's anxiety, and it's just a loop that repeats itself, because you're like, oh, I need that specific thing to feel better, but it's so contradictory. And once you've really cut out from everything, you just have this mental clarity and you're going back towards this hunter-gatherer state where you have these fasting periods and this clarity of mind, and you can just be much healthier and much happier as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Okay. So we're going to touch more on that aspect, the processed food, the sugars, uh in a little bit. Um I want to touch on sort of our dopamine and what that means what that does to the body and our reward sort of system, if that's okay. Yeah. So what how do we actually think about dopamine scientifically?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so dopamine, let's say that what research has shown is that we always have a baseline of dopamine.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And that all the activities that we're having, we're going to experience some peak of dopamine, but then also a draft.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell And just for our listeners, what is dopamine?

SPEAKER_04

Aaron Ross Powell Oh, dopamine is a molecule of rewards, but also anticipation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So it's a neurotransmitter. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So what research has shown is that we experience this peak of dopamine of the anticipation of rewards. So let's say that you are excited about having a dessert, you will feel this dopamine. I have a sweet tooth.

SPEAKER_00

So you've got a sweet tooth? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um but your brain is going to be like, oh my God, I'm really excited to get that. So you will feel that dopamine before you're actually eating it. Yep. And that's really the magical thing about dopamine is that it's really more about the anticipation and really having the thing.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. So there's a baseline.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And uh and that might peak in anticipation of um a reward, you know, that sweet tooth or achieving even achieving, you know, an event or achieving something that that's where that you're seeking pleasure from.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly. So it's something outside of yourself. It's almost having that I mean, you mentioned the the sports before. It's like let's say that you're competing for marathon, you will have all that focus on that specific goal. And then the dopamine also will be, you know, you will experience those dopamine highs for the movement that you're having towards that goal. But one of the things to keep mind is to keep in mind is that when you're having this dopamine peak, you will also have a draft. So depending on how big the peak is, it will be the same uh measurement almost in the draft. So like the higher the peak, the higher the draft.

SPEAKER_00

So depending on the activity, you will feel so you'll you'll have a come down essentially.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. It will come down. And it's gonna take time then to replenish back to your baseline.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. So dopamine is not just about immediate pleasure, but it's also the pursuit or anticipation of um what that event or that food or whatever you're striving for.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. So modern behavior in phones and how we live, the immediate society, the TikTok society, or okay, right, I w I want that, the Amazon being able to deliver it the next day is really driven by this almost immediate gratification and that instant reward. How does that impact our brain function?

SPEAKER_04

I mean, we get so many different messages. You mentioned the TikTok. It's so easy to just scroll on what's the internet.

SPEAKER_00

I've never been on TikTok.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, really? I have it, but I actually never use it. I use Instagram.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And I can be sometimes a bit like I don't even uh my team does my Instagram, but I but yeah, not for me.

SPEAKER_04

That's really healthy. I like that. Almost unheard of these days that people don't use social media. But it's like the short form content just gets you into like almost a brain rut at some point. And then if you spend too much time on it, I think many people experience that, that you almost feel you're out of the world in a way, because like you're living in this curated social media world, you're comparing yourself to other people, and you just kind of feel really bad about yourself and feeling that you're really behind in life. But all of these different activities that we have in the brain is getting that reward system active. Also with emails, I mean we get notifications all the time. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, how can we really make sure that there's going to be some downtime for the brain to regulate itself, for the nervous system to regulate itself and not to be on all the time. Because again, it's like the shops, for instance, they close at, let's say, 6 p.m., 7 p.m.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

But social media emails, they don't close. So how can you create a lot of things?

SPEAKER_00

So what is if you're getting all these dopamine hits, what does that do to the system?

SPEAKER_04

So the more dopamine you have, the more you're also gonna use that dopamine energy in a way. Yep. And when we think about dopamine, it needs some time to come back to baseline. Okay. So if you think about let's say um a car, F1 is around the corner in Monaco, if you're always going on a gas pedal, your petrol is gonna be empty at some point. And it's very similar with dopamine. You actually need to make sure that can you have some dopamine uh downtimes, like almost like um the fasting, you know? But you have times where you don't eat, do something similar where you don't have this excessive dopamine, so you can actually replenish and feel better versus just go from one thing to another and feeling completely drained after.

SPEAKER_00

Because otherwise your central nervous system and your sympathetic nervous system is always on the pedal, so to speak.

SPEAKER_04

Way too overactive. And then it shows in the brain as well. I mean you will see that the limbic system, the emotional center of the brain, will be way too activated.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

And then your decisions are gonna be completely rubbish because then your prefrontal cortex, the decision-making of the brain, will be more shut down because the emotional center will take over.

SPEAKER_00

Yep, yep. So Okay, interesting. And we'll dive into some of that. Um, do ultra-processed foods, and you touched on this before, social media and technology, they tap into the same sort of reward circuitry as our standard pathways.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I mean all these different let's talk about addiction because I think like when it comes to food and phone people tend to be most addicted to it. Yep. So when we think in a research setting, the papers show that there's very similar mechanism happening in terms of behavior.

SPEAKER_00

So it doesn't must matter what what the addiction is, whether it's work, whether it's your phone, whether it's addicted to sport and exercise, which we see lots of people or food, it it's the same mechanism, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04

Very similar, yeah. So it's very similar. Brain activities are happening. I mean you you get the same principles. You want more of that activity to feel the same pleasure. Um you're gonna have adverse consequences doing that specific activity.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

You're gonna have an emotional emotional um how do you call it? Um your emotional center will be different. So like the emotions will differ once you're interacting in that activity, and you will have negative consequences when you're trying to quit, and then you're going back to that activity, so you can't really quit. Like all these mechanisms are very similar when we think about all types of addictions.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. And so what does that do to the brain? Is that the limbic system that that that gets overloaded and that shuts down various other areas of the brain?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, the the limbic system is the main thing that we're looking at. Okay. But also the memory system, which is part of the limbic system, can be affected. So specifically when we think about food addiction, this will be one of the centers that will be affected. So hence why your memory might not be as optimal.

SPEAKER_00

Is that short-term memory or long-term memory as well?

SPEAKER_04

It's not very clear in research if it's short-term or long-term. It's still very much at its infancies, to be honest. Okay. But we can see that definitely the memory system is affected with the hippocampus being one of the major areas.

SPEAKER_00

And people talk about, you know, we see a lot of people with post-viral stuff, pain. Um, and they talk about having brain fog.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

From a neuroscience perspective, what is brain fog? Have they been able to is that is that a lack of that short-term memory or the recall? Is it you know, people just um state that it's uh difficult to recall things, difficult to function, difficult to um remember what they're doing to get into that sort of focal or f or focus sort of state.

SPEAKER_04

Is there's so many different mechanisms in place, to be honest. Like it's always hard to pinpoint one specific area, but when we're thinking about brain fog, it's the overactivity of the brain. The brain is always stimulated and it doesn't have enough almost rest time to then recover from what's been happening. So it's gonna be limbic system that will be affected, but also more the prefrontal cortex area. There's so many different um brain circuits in place. Yeah. It's gonna be also very dependent on you know how the brain fog gets happened and what are the commodities with someone because they're most likely not only gonna have brain fog, but also maybe brain fog and anxiety. So it r will be really case-dependent.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So have we built economies really around attention extraction and also dopamine stimulation?

SPEAKER_04

Yes, I mean 100%. I think it's also with all these I mean we live in a capital world and I think it's a great thing. Everyone can have their ideas, we can create businesses. But we for a business to thrive, there's some people who use neuroscientists behind the scenes to make a food more palatable, to make TikTok or Instagram more addictive so people stay longer on the platform. And it's all of these things, it's we may not be.

SPEAKER_00

That's not where you're working.

SPEAKER_04

I am not. No. I did some research in neuromarketing, so I know the mechan mechanisms of how this works, but how can we actually use neuroscience in a positive thing in a positive way and not just driving more sales and more consumers into the specific project.

SPEAKER_00

Or more addictive behaviors.

SPEAKER_04

Or more addictive behaviors, yeah. I mean, even if you think about Disneyland, they have a Scientologist and a neuroscientist to make the specific sense.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So you stay longer and buy more. And also suboptimal foods with, you know, a lot of fat, a lot of sugar. So it's all of these things are are built by society and that we may not necessarily realize that are really affecting how we live. And we might think like, oh yeah, I'm not part of that group, but we can't.

SPEAKER_00

So if we touch on sort of how we can regulate that nervous system, but and addictive personalities. So there's a there's a term that okay, I've got an addictive personality, or you know, people Is there such a thing as being more vulnerable or some people are more vulnerable to having addictive personalities?

SPEAKER_04

I think yes. It's always a thing in academia. Is it environment? Is it genetics? It's a combination of both. Yep. But also if you class yourself as um have an addictive personality, you being in a victim mentality, you're not taking ownership because you can definitely change the environment that you're in definitely affects how you behave and what you do, what you think, etc. Genetics obviously play a role as well, but it's really interconnected and you definitely have the power to change.

SPEAKER_00

I mean there's only when you're talking about sort of genetics or the epigenetics, there's probably only a few genes that are more than fifty-fifty in terms of genetics and and environment. And this is not one of them.

SPEAKER_04

No. I mean we there's some um how do you word? Not case studies. Twin studies that have been made on, you know, their parents were addicted to either substance use or smoking. And those children, if you put them in two different environments, one of them might be gravitating towards the smoking and the drinking because they're part of that family, but someone else, the other twin who's not part of this environment, might not necessarily trigger that addictive personality, let's say per se.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell So like in most things, I think the environment means that you can upregulate or downregulate that sort of genetic profile.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, exactly. You have much more power than you think.

SPEAKER_00

So how many maybe not how many people because half the world is, I'm sure, or more than that. There's so many people who are functioning with a dysregulated sort of central nervous system.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So do people almost become addicted to that stress? Addicted to okay, right, I've got to tick all my boxes, I've got to tick all my my my my to-do lists and make sure that I'm super productive. And I think it's almost a badge of honour for people to go, I'm so busy, I've got so much on.

SPEAKER_04

Especially in London.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um so how do we m manage that? And I suppose that's the state of our society. Yeah. Um, but I suppose recognition that that is a part uh you know, a way that we're living is one one one part that we can try and start thinking about doing something to uh to uh ease that somewhat.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I mean we don't really have this downtime to think about our life. It's always a go, go, go. And as you said, like we're rewarding those behaviors. Yeah. If someone tells you they're busy, you're like, oh, that person must be already important. But what do they really do to be busy? Is it productive, quote unquote, or are they just trying to fill out time and doing tasks that are actually not the most driving force to what they want to do? So it's something that you know society rewards us to do. Do you mind repeating the question? Because I feel like I've forgotten that.

SPEAKER_00

So uh we often find that people can become addicted to stress.

unknown

Ah.

SPEAKER_00

To being productive and sort of that busyness within within life. Is that still just a has our society sort of driven that?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I mean, also when we think about being in those stress modes is something that we're so used to. Our nervous system is like, oh, I know how this feels, this feels safe, and you continue doing it, doing it, doing it. But also when we're thinking about the checklist that you mentioned before, we get this zerpamine head of like, okay, I've done this. What's next? What's next? What's next? And the more that you achieve, the more you're like, okay, what else can I do? What else do I need to take off to actually feel good about the things I'm doing? I mean, especially when we think about tying work and your identity together.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's uh Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I wonder how much overlay there is with these personality not personalities, but this spectrum of ADHD with you know, and we know that there's a a link between ADHD, anxiety, hypermobility, and it's a really interesting sort of spectrum that occurs. And I I wonder how much of you know the rat race that is London drives a lot of that when you put a lot of these individuals in the country. Being able to go for long walks, seeing nature, does that change? You know, I'm sure that environmental change would would would would change and help to regulate the nervous system.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, I love what you said because like different environments bring out different almost personalities of you and different ways that you think, different ways that you behave. When we think about London as such a busy city, there's always something happening. You get that dopamine all the time. I mean you can go to so many different events on one day. It's like crazy the amount of things that you can do. But when we go to the countryside, whether it's in the UK or for me, Australia has a very special place. I feel like once you go there by the beach, you're just in a different world. You can really internalize what's going on, what do you really want? You're having that. What's it relate to Australia? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So am I right in saying that a lot of high achievers, and I know you work in the investment world and luxury in that luxury world, and you've probably worked with and still work with a lot of these really high achievers. Do they struggle to come down off that high, that stressful existence that they sometimes live in? And does that scare people?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Some of the time?

SPEAKER_04

Yes. I think from what I've seen a lot is that once there's a time to think, people are scared of that. There needs to be something that fills that silence, the gap, exactly, whether it's working more or like having always something in the background, like a TV show or something running that don't have that they don't have to be with their own thoughts and to see whether they're happy or not. Um but also there's difference between high achievers. I feel like there's this almost uh not twist, but like inflection that before it's always like go, go, go, go, go, and they're not able to rest, they're really struggling with it. But then something changes in their psyche or maybe in an external factor that came that comes in where they're able to be like, okay, what was what I was doing before, always being on the on-mode, not taking a break, was unhealthy and they're shifting, and then they're able to relax more. So there's like two different types, and they need to go through that journey to really see okay.

SPEAKER_00

And some of the time it's it's an event that that leads to that. It might be a panic attack, it might be health events, and we see it quite a lot in uh in a lot of our patients, these you know, they can be burnt out or have stress issues or you know, musculoskeletal injuries because their system is not allowed to have that downtime. And I I think, yeah, it's often a learning curve for people to sort of experience that and then hopefully come out the other side and go, right, I need to be able to regulate myself. I need to be able to have that time, that downtime.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because I think any leader or anyone in a position of um uh higher up sort of an exec team needs that downtime to be able to think strategically.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, it's very, very difficult to be on the whole time and you almost need that downtime to be able to let your creative side come in. To s to to be able to think strategically. Um because if you don't allow that, you don't have access to that within the brain system.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I mean you're completely right. There's this like downtimes that are just so magical. But also when we're thinking about leaders and like the system, if you want to change something in your system and you're always in go go go mode, you're gonna be like, oh, I'm too busy, I don't have time for that. But maybe if you spend two to three hours changing something, which might take a bit longer than you anticipated, but that might be the game changer, and it's just gonna be much easier.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so touching on sugar.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So why is sugar such a powerful stimulus for the brain?

SPEAKER_04

So in academia, it has not been that much research, to be honest. Okay. Most of the studies has been done on mice.

SPEAKER_00

Considering that we live in a world with you know, processed food, high sugar content, and we we now there's n there's now a big movement that we're recognizing that sugar is not an amazing thing for us.

SPEAKER_04

Aaron Powell It's not that healthy, no. I wish it was, but it's not. But yeah, I mean it I was pretty surprised when I f first started my PhD, to be honest. So I'm just at the finish line of um submitting my thesis. But yeah, most of the studies has been done on animals and it's on the high fat, high sugar diet, and not sugar itself. Okay. So we don't really know what is sugar.

SPEAKER_00

So you can't pull out uh i it's hard to pull out whether it's the high fat or or just the sugar.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, or is it the sweet taste that makes it addictive?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um is it do people actually take sugar as it as its pure form and eat it like this? Some some individuals do, but it's usually the combination of the fat and the sugar and what's a what is the perfect combination that you feel addictive towards two. So on humans it's still very, very new in academic research, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. I've you you've just reminded me I used to sneak into the cupboard when I was, I don't know, nine, ten, and we used to have these sugar cubes. Yeah. And I used to like stand in the cupboard and just pop one or two sugar cubes in my mouth, and I was like, uh it was almost you know, that inst immediate sort of gratification.

SPEAKER_04

Did you have any sweet foods growing up?

SPEAKER_00

Uh look, I think we had a relatively balanced diet. But um Yeah, we had treats and and that sort of thing, but but in in uh in appropriate portions, I think. Um So do modern foods sort of really exploit these reward pathways with how they've constructed food?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I I mean a hundred percent. If you just look at like you go to a supermarket or grocery store and look at the labels of most of the um foods that you see in on the shelves, I mean so many things you don't even know what this means. Yeah. And all of these are numbers or usually I look at it and I'm like, oh, I don't know what this means. I I put it back. But it's so hard. Like even if you go down the bread aisle and you want like a proper sourdough, you don't really find that. Like all the most of them have sugar in them. They all have sugar and so many different other ingredients that we don't understand.

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

And all of these things are really by the companies, which I know they will hate me saying this, but they have expert teams to really make sure that the food tastes good. Yep.

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

And that people buy more of that specific food and then you eat more of that.

SPEAKER_00

I think most nutritionists will sort of say if you can't pronounce or you don't know or recognize the ingredients in the food, put it back.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah. Um, even if you see like the packaging packaging and they say like low carb, low sugar, I'm always very suspicious. I'm like, is that really true?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So how similar are the food cravings to other sort of compulsive behaviors that we have?

SPEAKER_04

So it's very similar mechanisms for all types of behavioral addictions. So we touched on previously on feeling um you need that specific behavior to you need more of that specific behavior to feel good. You're gonna have um an emotional reaction to that behavior, usually positive, because then you're gonna uh integrate it more and more in your life, but also some negative outcomes, whether it's negative in terms of your health, whether it's negative in terms of the circles that you're in, like your work might be affected, you're not gonna see your friends, etc. Um, but also the relapse rates, like all of these um different types of addictions are going to be very similar on how they look like in terms of broad mechanisms.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so an interesting question. Have addictive behaviours become commercially valuable in modern society?

SPEAKER_04

I would say so, yes. Yeah. Because it comes back to how we have shaped the world and how people buy things. Yeah. If you are addicted to a specific product or a specific food, you're gonna interact more on it and it's or a specific game. A specific game, yeah. I mean those companies are gonna make profit. Instagram this is what they want.

SPEAKER_00

Their algorithms drive that sort of behavior, don't they?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, okay. So when what happens when s when someone lives in chronic stress for years? What does that do to the brain? Does does it how are you rewiring that brain system?

SPEAKER_04

The brain is so interconnected, but when we're thinking about being an overdrive, so the limbic system being overactive, yeah. It's it's going back to this car example. We're driving towards the wall and we're not taking a break, and it's very similar. We're just in this overactive state, so this is gonna correlate to our cognition being not as effective, but also our health in general.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

And when we also think about sleep, our sleep will be affected, affected because the limbic system will be overactive. And then we have also seen that there's research that shows that sleep, bad sleep, is correlated to early onset of dementia. So this is a higher risk as well. Um so all of these things are so interconnected. So we really need to be mindful about okay, I need to regulate myself physically, but also with your nervous system. I mean, everything that we have in terms of health issues could be also transcribed by the brain. Like you just see this big correlation and it's one system, and I think we just really forget that it's one. We are always putting the brain and then the body, but how can we really work together?

SPEAKER_00

It is all one interconnected system.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Definitely. Yeah. So cities like London probably don't help us to regulate our nervous system, do they?

SPEAKER_04

It can be trickier, but I think you can definitely do it. It's trickier because London is so busy and there's so many di distractions, so much dopamine happening. But it's how do you really structure your routine and the habits that you have?

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

Do you go to the gym to actually get that power out? And also the gym has so many, or like working out has so many health benefits when it comes to physical longevity, but also brain longevity, brain health.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

Is it also how mindful are you in terms of what you're eating? What other foods are you consuming? How is your sleep routine and your sleep hygiene? Do you have your phone next to you, maybe in bed, looking at it first thing in the morning, last thing at night? Um, what community do you have? There's definitely it can be more challenging, but you can create an ecosystem that can help you.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. Yeah, and I think I look back at my time in London, and I've been in London for 26 years as as an Australian. And uh now with multiple sort of businesses, I I'm probably busier than I've ever been, but I spend more time focusing on making sure that I do some meditation, that I have some downtime, I get out on my bike, which is out in in nature, and I see some greenery, and all of that is key to helping me personally regulate my central nervous system. And if I didn't do that, I would be in trouble, I think.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, but that's brilliant that you put those habits in place, and all of these habits will really play a significant positive role on how you're feeling, but also how your business is performing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So do you think that burnout is rather than just working too hard, is perhaps just the central nervous system has been overloaded?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I mean what we can see in brain scans using an EEG machine. So the EEG looks at the electrical signal in your brain.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

Is that theta will be pretty prominent and pretty active. So theta is one of the slowest brainwave activities that we experience. Delta is the slowest and theta is a um second one. But there's an overactivity of theta, meaning that the brain just struggles to go to this faster brainwave activities, whether it's alpha, being more present, whether it's low beta, just being more awake.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

But the brain is almost well. Stuck in that phase. It's stuck, it's so used to being so overwhelmed that it needs to really recover to then reset in a way.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. And so the EEG for our listeners is like a almost like a helmet with lots of electrodes.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

Um over it. And that and you're reading the brain waves during a task or whatever it is, whilst they've got that on.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

And tracking sort of the the different brain waves.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

How many different types of brain waves do we have?

SPEAKER_04

Uh the slowest one we have is Zelta. So that's related to deep sleep. Okay. Theta is also pretty slow, so it can be related to burnout, to tiredness, but also to deep relaxation in certain settings.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

Then we have alpha waves, that can be alpha one and alpha two, related to calmness, to relaxation, to letting go. Beta can be divided between low beta, so being focused and awake in a way. Yep. And then high beta, which are stress levels, and then gamma, which is the fastest brainwave activity that we experience related to consciousness.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. So do you see that people are be is there a change in the in the brain waves when people are sort of cognitively f fatigued from that constant stimulation?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I mean you see it especially in what I was doing with clients, and that's what I brought into luxury hospitality, is the newer feedback. So when you do the newer feedback, you get a feedback based on what's happening in your brain. And what I'm able to see behind the scenes is that theta will be in a specific threshold, alpha is in a specific threshold, beta, etc. And I can see based on also previous sessions that you've done, how you're performing. And if there's something, you know, bad night of sleep or stress, I can see it because I can see, okay, if I'm looking at session one compared to session three, your activity is different and what is happening there. So you might struggle a bit more to get this positive feedback. So the threshold changes.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. And so when you can you explain what you mean by neurofeedback? Is that where you're doing some sort of training with them?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So to alter their response. It's a training. So let's think about meditation. It's a gamified way to meditate. Yep. So what we're doing with the neurofeedback is you have this brain cup on, an EEG usually, and we're looking at the electrical signal. Okay. And based on what we're seeing, you get either positive feedback or negative feedback.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

And this helps you to train yourself to go to a better baseline. So let's take the example that you are chronically stressed. So you're always in high beta, and this is the main activity that you have, even when you don't do anything. So stress levels are always high. What we can do is train your brain to actually decrease the high beta, the stress levels, for your brain to be more calm and more present. In research settings, it has been shown that neurofeedback is extremely helpful in ADHD, in anxiety, but also PTSD.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

So PTSD, I mean, usually there's a lot of different techniques that you can heal PTSD. One of them is going back into that memory and then reprocessing it.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

But the neurofeedback, you don't have to do it. So it's a brain that is learning subconsciously what do I need to do subconsciously, trial and error, different things, to go to a better baseline. And that's how your brain then learns after a while. Aha, I know how this feels. And then you can use that skill or that brain state into them outside the sessions.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, interesting. And so I I probably have a dozens of clients who would be super useful for them to experience. That sort of neuro feedback. Um a question just popped into me. Is there a correlation? Has there been any studies on your the the brain waves and a correlation between HRV? Because we use HRV as you know, in in wearable technology and uh across medicine as a bit of a marker for the state of your central nervous system.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I mean they're definitely correlated. So what's happening in your brain will be then also transcribed to the rest of physiological measures in your body. There are some neurofeedsback um studies. I mean they they're looking in virtual reality, so they're getting this feedback based on what's happening in the brain in virtual reality, and you can then also combine it with heart rate variability so you can see that there's like this sinking movement going on.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. Okay, interesting. So you touched on sleep. How does sort of sleep deprivation alter that impulse control and and also that sort of reward processing system?

SPEAKER_04

Aaron Ross Powell Sleep is so important and I'm so happy that people really realize how important it is.

SPEAKER_00

So how many hours do you get a night?

SPEAKER_04

My perfect routine is going to bed at 9 p.m.

SPEAKER_00

9 p.m.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. And then ideally going back up at like five or six.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, so you're an early riser.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, hence why Australia is perfect.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

This is the culture where everyone wakes up super early, looks at the sunrise, is outdoors. I mean, this is brilliant and I love doing that, and I feel much more refreshed going to bed early.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

Than, you know, staying up later. But sleep is so incredibly important, but we need to understand that the quality of sleep is the main thing that is happening. I personally did a sleep study two years ago, and I was able to see that my brain doesn't really go into deep sleep. So I had an EG machine on my head during the whole night. And that's how we were able to track it.

SPEAKER_00

Tricky to sleep with one of those.

SPEAKER_04

It's not the most comfortable, to be honest. But it's great to see the data that you're receiving and what's really going on, and it's also validating what you're experiencing. But it's really this quality of sleep. So we touched on early onset of dementia and Alzheimer. So there's a correlation between the bad night of sleep. So when we're thinking about what's happening in sleep, it's also cleaning our brain in a way of bad proteins. And if that doesn't really happen, then there might be a more prone risk of getting dementia and Alzheimer. So there's this what's happening, which is obviously something that we want to avoid.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

But also when we think about decision making, one bad night of sleep has been shown to be as detrimental as making decisions under alcohol influence. Yep. So if we're thinking about this, do you want as a leader, as you know, in in your household or also in your work setting to be under the influence of alcohol? Probably not, because your decisions will be suboptimal. So you need to really focus on what is the quality of sleep that you're getting.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. Yeah. So yeah. So we need super good sleep. So the deep sleep that okay, all our wearables track and what brain activity would we be expecting? What brain waves are we expecting during that time?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so when we look at an EG, there's clinicians who still there's not one specific correlation to what deep sleep is and light sleep. So it's a bit blurred. We have a specific well we agree globally, but each practitioner will have um a different set of how to analyze it. Yep. So different parameters. Yeah, something to say. But also in terms of the wearables that we have that 80% accurate. So when we're thinking about measuring hard rate variability in the hospital, it would be a different device than what we have at home. So the mathematical equation is different. So what those trackers do is that they will come back to finding this hard rate wearability equation. So we if you really want to track sleep the proper way, you want to have an EEG machine to then really see what's going on. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Yeah, the wearables are a proxy for it gives you a good overall picture.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. And what I think with the wearables, you're looking at trends over a period of time rather than that one-off one-off score. So what role does cortisol play in all of this? We know that cortisol is a stress hormone, it's raised in stress. Um cortisol is also incredibly important as well in how we function. But how does cortisol impact that sort of compulsive behavior?

SPEAKER_04

I mean, I'm gonna go back to sleep again.

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

Because if we have high cortisol, our sleep quality, we're gonna have trouble to fall asleep, but also staying asleep because our brain, our body will be overactive. So when we're then thinking about having a bad night of sleep, we're gonna be more prone to gravitating towards sweet foods, towards unhealthy things. We might be also more emotional, so lashing out on someone, and all of these things are correlated to cortisol levels.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So it's incredibly important to regulate them because your sleep will be better, and hence why then the correlation of you know being more regulated in your everyday will be uh much better too.

SPEAKER_00

Cool. So is there evidence that chronic stress changes dopamine signaling over a period of time?

SPEAKER_04

I don't know the specific literature on that, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

But what I would presume is that with the chronic stress, we are gonna gravitate more towards the unhealthy behaviors. So those unhealthy behaviors, they're usually more dopamine prone. Yeah. Hence why we're gonna have more peaks or higher peaks of dopamine. And those higher peaks will then also automatically say be correlated to this draft of dopamine, and it's gonna take some time to replenish, hence why chronic stress could be seen as also creating these more dopamine levels, so we're gonna feel a bit different.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. So uh maybe that you've just answered some m m the next question. So can poor metabolic health perhaps increase those compulsive tendencies?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I mean it goes it goes already back to sleep. So when the sleep is bad, there's going to be much more correlations on um gravitating towards these unhealthy behaviors. But when we think also about um early on adverse childhood experiences, so it's usually trauma that we experience during childhood, and this is how we really form our nervous system, our bodies, etc., there's a very big correlation to more mental health issues, whether it's anxiety, depression, and all of these things are so interlinked. So what can we do to really, you know, n regulate our body and a nervous system to then not go into this behaviors?

SPEAKER_00

Okay. So uh touching on exercise and its role in brain health, we know that you know we see with reds, which is relative energy deficit in sport, that people can over-exercise. Um exercise is key to well-being. But it can become addictive as well, right?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, there's some people who just use it well kind of engage in that activity too much. Yep. Whether it's maybe an athlete, but also people who compensating if they have an eating disorder. They might be like, okay, you know, I'm not only restricting my food intake, but also need to work out chronically to compensate. But then obviously the body doesn't recover and it's a whole different system. I mean, I'm sure that you're seeing so many people with injuries.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. Because of um, you know, their overstressed, over over-regulated, yeah, sort of hyper-regulated system and not sleeping enough.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Um what activity do you also do working out? Is it just your hit workouts and hyper? Yeah, so there needs to be some balance in there.

SPEAKER_00

So what role does movement play in the dopamine in with dopamine and the and and the central nervous system regulation?

SPEAKER_04

Movement is seen as more like the natural dopamine. So we're gonna feel good doing it, but we're not gonna crash like let's say that we're taking drugs, you're gonna feel, you know, a huge peak of dopamine, but then you're gonna feel quite shit as well.

SPEAKER_02

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_04

And it needs some time for you to feel better. But movement really has this opposite effect where we're feeling great and many people underestimated. So with movement, it's also it helps you to de-stress.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

And I think everyone is also different in what types of movement they enjoy. Like I'm gonna take myself, for instance, you put me in a yoga class, I'm getting angry, which is very contradictory because usually people are really relax. But it's about what do you need to do for yourself to understand what are the activities that you like. For me, it's CrossFit. Like I love CrossFit, I like the high-intensity stuff, and that really helps me to de-stress and then you know, be calm uh when I really need it.

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

But everyone needs to trial and error.

SPEAKER_00

CrossFitter, that's great because CrossFitters keep us super busy um in our clinic. Um lots of injuries from it, so it's perfect.

SPEAKER_04

We're good clientele.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So is exercise one of the most important tools for stress regulation, do you think?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I would definitely say so. I think many people they're just stressed and they're like, what do I do? Or am I just, you know, go on TikTok and see what's going on to distract myself, or I'm I don't know, gravitating towards something sweet and unhealthy to make myself feel better. But when we're thinking also about movement, automatically you just feel so much freer, especially when you're in nature.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

You just have a such a different environment and your brain also is affected by those positive behaviors.

SPEAKER_00

Yep, yep. So how important is exercise as part of that perfect um lifestyle for your long-term cognitive health?

SPEAKER_04

So important. I mean, there's so many studies now that are being done on the importance of movement, of working out. Just the decrease that you have in mental health once you're working out is just absolutely incredible. Like that's actually the magic drug that no one speaks about because you can't really sell it that well.

SPEAKER_00

And so I mean, I know there's lots of evidence for sort of um endurance, sort of cardiovascular exercise for mitochondrial health for your for your brain. Um strength work is incredibly important from a physical capacity, for muscle health, for bone health. Have they sort of are there any particular studies to show that actually one exercise is more ideal than than others for cognitive function or improved brain health?

SPEAKER_04

There's a lot of studies that have been done on racket sports at the moment, and they've shown that it actually helps to increase that um cognitive, not just resilience but cognitive health overall.

SPEAKER_03

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

But also when we think about ballet, for instance, there's so many movements that you need to think about. It's also working on your cognition and your memory system, your coordination. Balance is so incredibly important when we're thinking about longevity, also brain longevity. So what are the exercises that you can do to have this balance? But most importantly, I would say is what are the exercises that you like and can do long term? Because let's say that, you know, we've seen that racket sport is incredibly important for brain health, but you hate doing this, you're gonna do it maybe like, you know, maybe for two weeks and you're gonna give up. So there's no benefit of doing it. But if you have another activity, another workout style that you like and actually gonna be consistent, it's gonna be much more helpful than doing something that you're not doing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So why racket sports? Is that because you know they're multi-directional? Is it because that you're cognitively it's a skill-based sport so that you're cognitively working whilst you're exercising?

SPEAKER_04

Aaron Ross Powell It's the coordination part. Okay. There's so many mechanisms uh going on.

SPEAKER_00

So it's the hand-eye coordination.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, interesting. So maybe I better get that tennis racket out and play a little bit more paddle or something like that. Um so you touched on uh cognitive resilience or brain resilience. When we talk about a lot about building resilience in our athletes, in people, in our leaders. How do you think about that from a brain health or a neuroscience perspective?

SPEAKER_04

It's so important because I feel like we're so used to being in a bubble and comfort zone and we're not pushing our brain to go out. Obviously, if we're talking about resilience, it needs to be step by step because if we're in a comfort zone and then your goal, I don't know, let's say it's doing an ultramarathon and you never run before, and you're gonna do it, like your resilience is not really gonna help because you need to do it step by step. But then the brain is getting more malleable in that sense, and you having all these skill sets and those tools with you that you then also can not only use for the ultramarathon training, but also different things that you want to do in in in life. But then when we're I mean, I'm gonna come back to AI because I think like it's such an important topic that people don't really realize how it might affect the brain. And there's not that many studies that have been done. I mean it's still at its infancy.

SPEAKER_02

It's still pretty new, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly. But it's like how do we really use it? Like, do we use AI to think?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Where it's like, okay, I'm just gonna lean back, AI is making all my decisions, or are we using it as system building? And also AI can be great in some aspects. Like I'm using it now for financial modelling, and it's very, very helpful.

SPEAKER_00

Claude?

SPEAKER_04

Claude. Yeah. Claude is my best friend's. He is, but I'm using it for academic stuff.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

It's really basic and rubbish.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I'm like, I can Perplexity for academic stuff?

SPEAKER_04

I was not too happy with it either. Like honestly, I think the skills I have and the brain that I have is more helpful than all these AIs because I can see if the study is methodologically correct or not. Yes. What are the limitations of the study? Yeah. And AI can't really help me do that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Not yet.

SPEAKER_04

Well, hopefully it's not going to be uh replacing me.

SPEAKER_00

I'm sure it won't. But I I think you're right. I mean, I I I noticed that even, you know, when you're driving in the car, you know, instinctively I'll put on Google Maps. And I'm like, actually no, I'm gonna just try and navigate my way. I'm gonna try and work out where to because my sense of direction is terrible. But actually training that and using those components, and I think that's super important with AI coming into society, that we recognize that actually it can be amaz an amazing productive productivity tool, but actually we also need to ensure that we're using our brain in a sustainable way that's going to help um train it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, 100%. And I love what you said also about the Google Maps. I mean, I'm sure that you have of the study has been done on cab drivers in London. They know all the um all the streets around the street.

SPEAKER_00

It's pretty impressive what they can do.

SPEAKER_04

Really impressive. And like just if you also scan their brains, the limbic uh system, well, the hippocampus area, so memory system of the brain will be much bigger than what we have. And if we're not really training our hippocampus and memory system, then be trained. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So how do you brain train?

SPEAKER_04

It's really doing something that you like, but challenging yourself. Okay. So one of the things that many people say also is uh music. My mum's a musician, she's a violinist, and I used to play the violin for 10 years. And it's about all these different new notes that you're learning. Yep. Yep. It's also the different coordination of movement, and it's always challenging your brain in new ways. It can also be learning a language, it can be different types of um exercises. It's again very personal and what you like to do to challenge yourself.

SPEAKER_00

I recently bought myself a a set of DJ decks.

SPEAKER_04

Ooh, that's fun.

SPEAKER_00

And the brain processing that I had to do to actually I was like, shit, this is significantly harder than I thought it would be. Um incredibly fun. But actually, I could almost feel that my my computer was was fatigued and tired after a DJ session because it required a lot of sort of mental stimulation to be able to sort of process all those new different bits of feedback.

SPEAKER_04

100%. And you need to really focus and be attentive. And that's also the attention that you're having on doing the DJing is so important to learn. Yeah. And when there's things that we're so used to doing at autopilots, we're not having those specific methods. Exactly, and the ability to focus.

SPEAKER_00

So what does the concept of brain capital actually mean?

SPEAKER_04

So there's a report that came out earlier this year with Davos and McKinsey. And they were really saying that and have been shown that the brain is so incredibly important when it comes to our economy. We're losing trillions of dollars each year per country because of brain health issues, whether it's mental health related, whether it's dementia and Alzheimer, whether it's concussions, all these things can be prevented. And how can we make sure that society as a whole is actually healthy brain-wise?

SPEAKER_00

And does that is that sort of the cognitive resilience that we're talking about here? Or is that ensuring that we're looking after our central nervous system and not relying on AI, not relying relying on all these modern tools too much and training the system?

SPEAKER_04

It's really a combination of everything.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Like what can we do for the brain to be really healthy? And I always say that it's going down to the basics. Like, can we have breaks of technology? What community do we have? What foods are we having? What movement do we have? What movement do we not have?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Are we able to go into nature? What are the small things that can actually create a change, but that can be so impactful for our health and our brain?

SPEAKER_00

So there's lots of things. So it's uh it's essentially about living well.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Giving yourself downtime, making sure that you're eating well, making sure that you're exercising, making sure that you're cognitively stressing your system in the right way.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, exactly. Stress is actually important. But like the right amount of stress. Yes. If you're obviously in chronic stress, like that's gonna be something.

SPEAKER_00

Chronic low-level stress is the stress that actually is completely counterproductive generally.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But you've got to find ways to balance that and come off that as regularly as you possibly can.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And exercise, mindfulness, playing an instrument, all of these things can help with that.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah, 100%. And I mean that's also gonna then change the economy. Like everyone's gonna be healthier, you're gonna be more productive, your company's gonna be happy, you're gonna be happy.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, less medical costs.

SPEAKER_04

Less medical costs. Definitely. It's all correlated.

SPEAKER_00

So do you think and I know I'm talking at a longevity conference uh uh later this year, but there's there's a big movement in longevity talking about trying to preserve cognitive function and cognitive performance. Do you think longevity is shifting into that space more so?

SPEAKER_04

It's coming. And I'm very excited about that. Because now you can see that the Wellness Institute, they brought out earlier this year that brain health is a new trend for 2026.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

Longevity places are understanding that the brain is important, there's new services that are being added on the brain. But I think the key is okay, we have information, but how can we really make sure that this data is interconnected and that practitioners actually understand both of the systems and not just as separate.

SPEAKER_00

Not yeah. Because they they are incredibly interlinked.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, w w we're one body. So we can't really have two. But what's also interesting is that if we think about cognitive decline and preserving our cognition and our brain, all these habits that we're having are going to have an effect because 70% of dementia cases can be reversed based on lifestyle, which is a huge amount.

SPEAKER_00

Seventy percent.

SPEAKER_04

Seventy percent.

SPEAKER_00

Is that identifying it early enough, or is that um just by making enough environmental change? Changes, diet changes, exercise, mindfulness, cognitive good cogn cognitive activity.

SPEAKER_04

Again, it's a combination. I wish. I would be a billionaire by the by now. But no, I mean it's it's going back to what are the habits that you're having. And when we think about dementia, you're not going to wake up when you're 80 and be like, oh my God, overnight I have dementia. I mean it's something that's just slow, gradual. Yeah, to develop. And there's some studies that have been shown in EEG machines that you can see early onsets of cognitive decline as early as when we're 30.

SPEAKER_00

So should we all be getting having someone like yourself assess us with an EEG machine?

SPEAKER_04

Aaron Ross Powell Oh, 100%. And actually have also not only one snapshot, I don't know, when you like twenty, but have something on a regular basis so you can see the changes. But again, the early onsets of dementia doesn't mean that you're getting dementia. There's a correlation where it doesn't mean there's a causality.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and as you're saying diagnostic tool. And as as you're saying, 70% of of dementia you can reverse.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I mean it's a huge number if you think about it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So I know we're coming short, a little bit short on time now, and we could probably chat, I certainly could, for hours more about this sort of area, because it's been utterly fascinating. But I want to try to give our listeners some practical solutions that they can go away with and think about and put into practice. So what are the key priorities that people should do to optimize their brain health?

SPEAKER_04

I would say two things. One, working out on a consistent basis. So at least two to three times a week.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

And then also community. If you have proper people that you can rely on, not just acquaintances, but actually a support system around you. Ideally in the same country, but you know, if you have friends all around the globe, that's fine as well. But just be in touch with them on a consistent basis.

SPEAKER_00

And so interesting. You've chosen those two over sleep.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I think sleep is also incredibly important. But it's people talk about it more. So I feel like people understand about it.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

But the community aspect, especially in London, can be sometimes a bit tricky to do.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. So you know, we're coming back to the the sort of six lifestyle pillars almost, which is okay, sleep, nutrition, stress, negative habits, exercise, and community.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I think we underplay the community aspect enormously.

SPEAKER_04

100%.

SPEAKER_00

And you know, for for me, I talk about with exercise the five three eight. Five exercise sessions a week. That's the optimal. We want three based around, depending on the individual, strength.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Sometimes three cardio, depending on where that individual is at. But with sort of two cardio overlaid, so that makes five. The three is the three strength, eight is eight thousand steps a day. Which is just good functional movement. And I think that's key. So I love the fact that you sort of said exercise is um super important and super critical. Um and the community aspect, I think, you know. Is it a dopamine hit that you get when you anticipate going to see friends?

SPEAKER_04

I would say more serotonin. Like you feel almost nurtured in a safe place, you don't share. So this would be the main, let's say, chemical. But you know, like all these chemicals are in the brain all the time anyway, so it's a bit hard to say which one's more active.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Uh so just to finish on, do people need more intentional sort of downtime, boredom, or stillness?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I mean what you're doing with your kids is amazing because you're forcing them to be bored. And this is where the creativity can take place. This is where you're actually calming down the nervous system where you can think, are you happy where where you are? Like almost assessing life. It's the mind-wandering, the deferred mold network that is going to be most active in those periods of time, and we definitely need it.

SPEAKER_00

So is there a more ideal type of mindfulness or meditation that has been shown to help to regulate the central nervous system, or is it dependent, like your exercise example?

SPEAKER_04

Aaron Ross Powell Dependent.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. On what people like.

SPEAKER_04

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. I mean there's so many different types of meditation and mindfulness. We can think about mantra meditation, we can think about focusing on the breath, on silent meditation. But meditation, there's so many different ways. It's not just sitting in a space and trying to force yourself. It can be done your feedback, it can be being in a flow state, meditative state, when you're painting, when you're um exercising, when you're doing sound healing yourself, performing it. It's just so many different ways and you need to see what's suitable for you. For me, for instance, I love meditating for sunrise by the beach. Ask me to do that in London, I will hate it. So it just really depends on how you feel best and all.

SPEAKER_00

And how long do you meditate for?

SPEAKER_04

Um I have a YouTube video which is usually 15 to 20 minutes. Yep.

SPEAKER_00

Cool. And so, Sophie, just wrapping up, and congratulations because you'll be a doctor soon with your PhD uh later this year. Um where can people find you? Can they do some EEG work with you? Or do you have any uh sort of colleagues as well?

SPEAKER_04

Yes, so you can find me on brainflowite.co.uk and Brainflowite also on Instagram. I have a colleague in London who's taking care of all the EEG and doing your feedback sessions. Just get back and just get in touch with me and then I can set this up for you.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, amazing. Sophie, super interesting, super inspiring all your work, and thank you for your time today.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you so much for having me.