SPEAKER_01: 0:10

Welcome back to What's in the Box, the brand new podcast brought to you by Box Technologies, powering retail with purpose. Boxtech delivers innovative and market-leading customer engagement solutions that turn business ideas into a performing reality. From design and integration to ongoing support and maintenance, we're with you every step of the way. Now, this podcast is a little different to what you might be used to. It's audio only, totally unscripted, and around about 20 minutes each episode because we're busy. Our guests certainly are, and we're sure you are too. So let's get right into it. My guest today has extensive experience in retail management and buying, from his early beginnings on the shop floor at Harrods to currently serving as the director of home at John Lewis and Partners. Previously, he was managing director at Feather and Black and Buying and Merchandise Director at the Conran Shop. Additional roles include director of buying for homewares, furnishings and beauty at Bentles and various senior positions during his first spell at John Lewis, including head of buying for furniture and buyer for premium beauty. Early career experiences include senior buying roles at Heels and Woolworths, along with a buyer position at Home Base. He also holds a BA honours degree in product design from Coventry University. It's really good to see you. Jason, we're here too. Good to see you too, thank you. Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35

I've worked quite a few places, haven't I? You have, you've done a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:39

I don't know whether we're going to be able to cover all of that. Absolutely not, no. But so we're sat here, we're in your domain. So we're in the newly refurbished, I think that's the right word. That's the word Jong was store at Blue Water. And you were telling me earlier that 90%, I think it's been a 10 million pound refit. The store, we've been just finished a tour of it. Looks amazing. We'll get onto that. Yeah, it it and we're sat in the home home area. But before we get into all the the retail, your very first job. So I was you know looking as one does at the LinkedIn profile and so forth, a and I think I've got the pronunciation right, a plongeur ski guide and chef in Val-desert. So just tell us a little about that, and also perhaps did that bring you into your love of you know the customer serving, customer experience, etc. etc.

SPEAKER_00: 2:33

Great. Okay, it's probably twofold. So before working in Val desert, I did the product design degree, and I basically just love product. So it's it's just inbuilt in me. It spent four years designing that. But when I finished the degree, I just wanted to go skiing. So I've been lucky enough that we'd skied since I was five years old. We used to go to the army ski dry ski slope in Alder Shot as we grew up. And so I'd skied since I was child and just wanted to go and work at a ski resort. So I got the job out there, and just to explain what a plongeur is, basically it's French. I did look it up. We did. It's basically French for diving. Uh so it's you're you're diving into these massive sinks to wash up after 70 guests have eaten their dinner.

SPEAKER_01: 3:14

Yeah, so you're a washer-upper.

SPEAKER_00: 3:16

You're a washer-upper, absolutely, big gloves on and washing lots of plates. But I suppose actually what what I then did was by becoming a ski guide and then a chef, but particularly the ski guy, was interacting with with customers. And so I'd be on the coach each week, doing a speech to the customers, welcoming them to the outs. And so I suppose what all of this combines with I love shopping, I love shops, I love product, but I just love hanging out with people. Yeah, so you combine the lot and retail's your perfect environment. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 3:45

That's what it's so you went from there, and I guess that the first it looks as if the first role really was on the shop floor at Harold's. Yes. Tell us a little bit of about that.

SPEAKER_00: 3:54

How did that come about? So uh I I I I realised I wanted to get into buying, so I wanted to combine my love of products and love of shops, and I wanted to get into buying. And I rang up a number of retailers and said, I want to be a buyer. They're like, have you worked in a shop? I was like, no. And well, you should, and rightly so. I think everybody who works in retail should at some point have worked in a shop. Uh, you might find that that's not your your your perfect skill, but you should experience what we're doing now, sitting here on the shop floor, seeing customers, engaging with products, see how they look at things. And so it really just started from there. So I happened to ring Harrods, they were launching a brand new uh department. This is a long time ago, so 23, I think, called Harrod's World. And it back then it was quite a new concept, it was Harrod's branded gifts. So whether that was Teddy's, shortbread, golf shirts, which actually, you know, that sounds like an obvious thing now, but back then that was quite a new idea and a new concept. So I was actually surprisingly privileged, brand new into working with in shops, to be working in Harrods World. And yeah, so that's why I learnt my sort of shop experience, which of all shops to work in, that's quite a pinnacle. But then from there, because I was so desperate to get to buying, I was applying for different schemes onto the graduate trainee buying scheme at Home Base. And so back then it was Sainsbury's Home Base.

SPEAKER_01: 5:18

Uh because obviously Sainsbury's Sainsbury's had launched Homebase. So you would have been in Wallington?

SPEAKER_00: 5:22

I was in Wallington, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 5:23

Yeah, yeah. So when was that? What year would that have been?

SPEAKER_00: 5:27

Oh gosh, where am I? Late 90s? Yes, 95, 6 or so.

SPEAKER_01: 5:31

Okay, so just after that, I'd have been just down the road at Superdrug. Ah.

SPEAKER_00: 5:35

Oh my gosh, okay, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 5:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 5:38

I probably forgive Superdrug at some point as well.

SPEAKER_01: 5:40

Yeah, we had quite a few people who went between the two.

SPEAKER_00: 5:42

Yes, exactly, just a vacation. So I worked I worked there for five years, and that's I think where I had my really good old-fashioned training.

SPEAKER_01: 5:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 5:52

So every Monday morning I was coming in and I'd be looking at exceptions reports, whether we need to, I mean, you know, do we need to order stock or not?

SPEAKER_01: 5:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:00

And what had sold, and I'd be looking at my market data all printed out, GFK data saying, you know, did we sell more than B and Q? And therefore, what can we do about it? And it was an amazing training ground for retail.

SPEAKER_01: 6:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:14

But then I got that moment where I don't want to work in DIY. Um, my training had been in design, and I had back then three pinnacle retailers I wanted to work for: the Conrad's shop, heels, Habitat.

SPEAKER_01: 6:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 6:28

So I managed two of them. Uh I got an interview with Habitat and then didn't get the job. But I managed to, so I managed two of them. So so my idea was I really wanted to go from DIY to think it onto the high street.

SPEAKER_01: 6:40

And was that those two brands? Was that because of your your background in in design? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:46

Yeah, yeah. So it was my background in design. Yeah. There's no surprise that Satara's Conran involved with both Habitat and Comran was a hero of mine. And actually, a hero was my mum's, if I'm really honest. So my mum and I used to bicker about who bought his interior book first, and she won because she did. And so we had Habitat product around our house. So I grew up with his books around our house, with my mum being passionate about interiors. We always have fabric sample books at home. Mum was always borrowing fabric sample books for something that she was gonna make herself or something get re-upholstered. So I suppose I lived in a house that loved product. Yeah, yeah. So that's that's how I got that sort of passion for those two.

SPEAKER_01: 7:26

Now you said something a couple of minutes ago, which I totally agree with now. So and it's amazing how many senior C-suite, call it what you like, and CEOs in retail started on the shop floor. Yeah. And it's it's a shame, isn't it? Because uh, what I observe in the industry is that there are too many young people now who think, no, I don't want to go and work in a shop, or yeah, I'll get a Saturday job until I get a proper job. Yes. And I personally I think that retail as a whole can do a lot more to attract young people into it.

SPEAKER_00: 8:02

Uh I couldn't agree more. I suppose actually just you know, as you said that, I was reflecting on two things. One was the inspiration that we we took, and I mentioned this just earlier, when we went to New York, we were going around some of the New York stores, and the service that you get from the New York stores is brilliant. And but against all my preconceptions from many years ago, it's really authentic.

SPEAKER_01: 8:25

Yeah, they go to Soho, yes. Some of the stores are out there amazing, aren't they? Stunning, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 8:29

And you know, a couple of brands that we sell in the UK, West Alm Pottery Barn. Yeah, the the the guys are so engaging and they're so proud of what they do and where they work and the brand. And because of that, they feel elevated. Yes, you you you know, I I was working and go, that's an expert. Wow, I've learnt from them. Um so the other reflection is I'm sitting here going, well, this is what we aim to do here. So we took that inspiration from New York of like, how does it feel when you're one of those shops? Yeah, it feels like you're in the this area that is just all has the authority. And actually, I want all the partners, John and his partners working here to be really proud of what they're doing. And when we were here last Friday, with one of the partners came up to us and she just said, I'm just so proud.

SPEAKER_01: 9:11

Really? So proud of what we've done here.

SPEAKER_00: 9:14

Yes. Um, and through that, then you get well, your service is better because you're selling solid love in a beautiful environment. Yes. So I I wholeheartedly agree with you. I didn't work in shops for that long, but I still worked in shops.

SPEAKER_01: 9:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 9:26

And I still believe it was the right thing to do. And if there's anything we could do to encourage, I think by creating inspirational spaces. You know, we walked through all the different areas here. Yes, I look after home, but we went to the jewellery space. Yeah. For some reason I was obsessed with that space, it just looks gorgeous. I always wanted to sell jewellery, I'd want to be there. Yes, you know, because imagine coming in every day and you'll you've got that wonderful environment to be in and sell from.

SPEAKER_01: 9:50

Yeah. So let's talk about the store. So uh, you know, so it's been how many 20 weeks, 20 weeks, 20 weeks of making and 90% has been touched, 10 million investment. So walk us through. I mean, we we've just finished something for the for the media event and we you've taken us through the store. But just for the uh for the listeners, tell us about what's changed, what's new, and what if they come down to Blue Water, what can they expect?

SPEAKER_00: 10:20

I'd encourage anybody who's within in travel distance to just come down because it is a gorgeous shop now. It really is. So we I think it's about I don't if it's 100% accurate, I think it's about 25-36 years we've been here. Last time we invested here was about nine years ago, and it's a bit light touch. We've got our approach now with our shops going forward is we we're effectively going to sort of do a refurbishment across the whole shop as we go forward. So, like you said, 90% of the space has been has been invested in somehow. And the idea is that each and every area is the best version of what we've got, right?

SPEAKER_01: 10:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 10:54

So if you go to the basement, we've just been where we've got all of our lovely, you know, we've got the food waitress food hall, and it's all about food prep, cooking, and your kitchen, etc. And you saw all the new concepts there. So we've made that really lovely and exciting, you know, the most amazing coffee machines, you know. Yeah, having a look at them. Yeah, they're quite stunning. But then as you come up through the shop, you know, whether it's menswear, where we've introduced all the independent brands, whether it's like we said the new jewellery concept, whether you go look at computing, everything is stunning basically. But I suppose what's just a tiny bit behind the scenes, what goes on. So we were here about nine months ago, working with the design team, the space team, when it's completely different layout, big bits of paper trying to work out how do we make this a stunning, different store for the customer? How do we expand the Ori Cafe because customers are loving the cafe? How do we introduce water stones? How do we move home? So, you know, home has transferred up here, we moved the lighting department from down to allow water stones in, we lost a bit of space, we got a bit upset. Um, and then you go, but we could have a new concept, and so you go through this journey of recreating a brand new shop, but the idea is everything is then a formula for the next shop. So jewelry launched in Oxford Street, it's now here. Large LEC launched somewhere else, it's now here. So we've launched the two new concepts with the gifting emporium and home lifestyle. We will now put that across other shops, yeah. So as we refurbish shop in totality, it then gets all the new concepts in all the new areas, and hopefully, you bring that love and excitement to each category.

SPEAKER_01: 12:35

Yeah, you mentioned the computing and and uh saw that first uh in um Oxford Street, and just tell us a little bit about that because I think it's brilliant the way that you've arranged that because it it feels if it that's how a shopper would experience it.

SPEAKER_00: 12:50

Stolen my thunder. That's yeah, but you can do it genuinely. That is exactly it. It's about getting in inside the head of the customer, yeah, and say, how are they shopping? They don't they don't necessarily need to shop by brand, no, and I think the the wonder of a department store, which I think we should all celebrate, is uh we have multiple departments, we have own brand and we have brands, yeah, but we're agnostic. So we are here to provide trace. So in this instance with computing, I think it was like what's your everyday computer? The one that the kids go on, the one that you do shopping from, you don't need it to be mega expensive and have all kinds of features, it's actually a day-to-day one. That's sort of what I would buy, but then you have ones for the tech experts, and so we've arranged it like that rather than by brand. Yeah, and actually, if you think about for the lifestyle concept here, the whole thing here was customers say, I don't know if you've got the styles I want. So again, we got inside the customers' head and was like, What are they after? They want to be able to see style from us and stand those differences, and so that's why we presented it this way, but that's what so it's with we're trying to do that appropriate to each and every category.

SPEAKER_01: 13:58

And it feels, particularly here in home and and furnishing and so forth, that there's which I think is what great retail is all about, is providing inspiration, yes, and new ideas, because I'm sure that you know people okay, they might have let's say that they're they're restyling their living room, yeah, for example. They'll probably have some ideas and they're gonna go to different sources and so on and so forth, but they still need help and advice.

SPEAKER_00: 14:24

Yes, yeah. And then so I my whole thought process behind this is where we've got these five home design styles with really clear looks. Some customers almost need that help to go, look, this is their look, you could just recreate it. Others will say, Don't give me that, I don't need that, but actually, they won't mind it being laid out this way. And if what customers wants to shop across, fine. But hopefully we've inspired them because we have an opinion. Yeah, and I think that we were guilty maybe recently in home of not having a strong enough opinion, and we're now just saying, let's be brave and just have an opinion. There's five styles, we think they're great. You might not like all five, you only like two. That's fine. Shop what you like from us, but at least you know we have a sense of sense of style.

SPEAKER_01: 15:06

Yeah. Yeah. And that seems to be on a sort of broader now about the the partnership, because you know, I've uh I've been covering for a good few years now what's um been been going on. It seems now that you know post-COVID and so on and so forth, um that it really is an upward trajectory in a number of different ways. And what you've described there about you know the uh the philosophy almost behind it seems that yeah, it's got its mojo back, if you like, if that's the right way to put it.

SPEAKER_00: 15:40

Yeah, and I think it's so getting getting up. We've got our mojo back. I think the market has. I think there's something I was chatting with the David, the head of design, this morning, and we were just talking about ethics and sustainability, and actually selling better-made products has more longevity, but not just from a practical point of view. Well, it lets a test the time, but actually the quality, but also the style. So it's not about fast furniture or fast home, it's about beautiful styles that will last forever, but also it's made brilliantly, and that's we we're sort of quite proud of that. That that's where we sit in the market, that we believe, you know, as a mid-premium retailer, that actually it's the quality of our product, but not just the the actual physical quality, it's the style quality.

SPEAKER_01: 16:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now you mentioned the market there, and you know, we've got to we've got uh well, I was gonna say we're a couple of weeks away from Black Friday, but no, Black Friday now is we're here, we're in it. And I know that you're you're in it. Tell us because again, uh during the tour earlier, you were saying a little bit about again the John Lewis philosophy of approaching Black Friday. It's not, you know, as we saw years ago, that the the the the mad rush for the the TV screen and fighting in the aisles and all the rest of it is nothing like that whatsoever now. So tell us a bit about what Black Friday means for John Lewis.

SPEAKER_00: 16:59

So I suppose I suppose I mean what underpins it all is our is our promise. So never know me undersold, you know, we don't we're we're we're we're famous for that. But I think I'll get really clear on that is about it's about quality, it's about service and about price. So I think the great thing there is customers know if they're buying a branded product, we'll match. So we match 25 credible retailers, and so we'll have the same retail price, but often we'll have a better guarantee, we might have better availability. Hopefully, the service the customers experience from us will be stunning. So we try and wrap it up completely, but it just means for Black Friday they don't need to worry. So if they come to our beauty category, they know they're gonna get the best price of the market, but they'll also get brilliant service. I mean, you saw the beauty hall down there, it's world class. Yeah, uh, you know, if you go to buy a laptop that we were just talking about, it'll be the best price on the market, but you'll get fantastic service. So we don't need to shout about it. We're gonna very you know consciously match the competition, have the best retail, but layer on everything else. Now we are also putting some other promotions on our own brand product because it's the right time of year. But I think what we were discussing earlier about the sort of the gifting and self-gifting element of Black Friday, it's it's turned from that I need a TV to actually what are the things I want in the house, it might include a TV, but it could also just be gifting product or self-treat. So it's I think it's a slightly more joyous moment of the year now than it than it used to be.

SPEAKER_01: 18:21

Yes, yeah, yeah. And of course, it's gonna pretty much seamlessly roll into Christmas. We've got some, we're not gonna talk about the people would be glad to know we're not gonna talk about the budget. Yep. Uh we'll we'll let that um do its own thing. But Christmas, what what uh lead up to that? It's this year on a Thursday, I think, yeah, and the way the dates falls.

SPEAKER_00: 18:45

Which is great because it actually gives longer shopping time but more relaxing time. So you've got a good quality weekend before. Yes. So whether you're super pre-planned, that's your relaxing weekend. Whether you're not planned, you're on a weekend before.

SPEAKER_01: 18:58

Um and people are gonna take that Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday off.

SPEAKER_00: 19:01

A lot of people are gonna take that. Thursday, Friday, bank holidays, they're gonna take those three days. Exactly. So that's what I'm trying to plan at the moment. But yeah, so I think that it should mean that there's a slightly more relaxed climb to the peak, because sometimes the further around the timing, you know, Christmas on a Monday, then actually people don't have that quality of time off. And so it's really sort of quite so desperate. I think what's great is that we've we we ended up doing our click and collect toll about the last minute, and I've used that a few times. Christmas Eve, click and collect. A bit risky, but you know, we will serve through to them. I think what's interesting at the moment with the weather as it is, it's too warm, it's too warm at the moment, and so we are seeing interesting patterns in sales. I'm sure you are, yeah, you know, waiting for people to buy their really heavy winter coats, yeah, but other areas are flying, so so the pattern is just a little different. But you know, we all cope with the weather in retail, it's just part of what you do. Yeah, um, Christmas is performing brilliantly, it's uh our actual Christmas category. It's up on last year, which was always pleasing. Yeah, and we have those extra days as well as we lead into it.

SPEAKER_01: 20:08

Yeah, yeah. We're pretty much out of time, and I think that's a great place to uh uh to probably leave it. I think that uh it's gonna be I personally I think we're yeah, I said we're not talking about the budget, we're not, but I what I can I think that people are gonna put two fingers up to uh Rachel from accounts and they're gonna have a great Christmas, which I think is pretty good. For retail. Jason, thank you so much. It's a pleasure. Thank you. Thanks a lot. That's all from What's in the Box for now. New episodes will be dropping every two weeks, so please stay tuned. And if you want to find out more about Boxtech, please follow the link in the description. Thanks for listening.