What's In The Box
The brand new podcast from BOXTEC brought to you by Redline Retail. Join us as we invite guests from retail and hospitality to discuss the issues of the day, with one unique twist: uncut, unedited and each episode just twenty minutes long.
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What's In The Box
Turnaround Leadership In Retail With Truth And Trust
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Whats in the Box is brought to you by Redline Retail
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Welcome And Guest Introduction
SPEAKER_01Welcome to What's in the Box, brought to you by Boxtech, empowering retail with purpose. Boxtech delivers innovative and market leading customer engagement solutions that turn business ideas into a performing reality. From design and integration to ongoing support and maintenance, we're with you every step of the way. Now I'm really pleased to uh have this particular person on the podcast today. I've known him for a good few years, and uh he's got fantastic tale-to-tale of some of his experiences at uh some well-known retail businesses and turnaround and so forth. He's a COO, transformation leader, and executive coach with extensive experience helping organizations improve performance and navigate change. Having held senior leadership roles at Lincolnshire Co-op VetsNow, Co-op Nisa, and Vodafone, he has led businesses ranging from high growth operations to complex turnarounds and large-scale integrations. He is known for his practical, people-focused approach to leadership and for turning strategy into results. He helps businesses move faster, execute better, and change what isn't working. Welcome to What's in the Box, Steve Leach.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for the invitation, Andrew. Delighted to be here.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. So, yeah, as I said in the intro there, we're going to talk about turnaround and transformation. Maybe they're two slightly different things,
Turnaround Versus Transformation Framing
SPEAKER_01I'm not sure. But and it that seems to be in the news at the moment with uh one particular quite well-known high street change, which went about a change about a year ago. And sadly, uh they're gonna be closing a number of stores, but hopefully all goes well there. But tell us a bit about your experience in you know, I'd said the complex turnarounds and large-scale integration. Tell us uh tell us a bit about that, and I know you you've got some examples that you can you can share.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Well, every successful turnaround I I've had has followed the same pattern, really, about finding the truth, building trust, creating traction, establishing tempo, and getting those things right, the performance will take care of itself. So uh the the benefit of my background, I guess, is the breadth of retail experience I've been lucky to have. So, my last role, I took the first chief operating officer role at Lincoln Co-op. Prior to that, I was interim COO at VetNow, which was an emergency healthcare business. And before that, I uh was able to work at NYSA, which was like three jobs in one because that was independent when I joined. It was then acquired by NYSA, so acquired by the co-op group in 2018, and then went on a very different journey through COVID. And before that, I was retail director at Vodafone. So four very different businesses that have had turnaround and transformation. So when we chatted about what would unite all of those, I thought, you know, how to spend the first 90 days on arrival in each of those would be a good discussion topic for the podcast.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, the old 30, 60, 90, I'm sure everybody who's listening listeners that we've all been there. We've we've all put that deck together and uh and so forth. Maybe now with the help of AI, I'm not sure. But um uh so yeah, which okay, so which way do you want to go? Do you want to go over from Vodafone and bring it up to date with Lincolnshire or the other way around? Well, up to you.
SPEAKER_00Well, I thought what I do is is almost go through each of the topics and give you some examples around of each of those, if that works.
SPEAKER_01That'd be brilliant. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I mean, true truth is really the unfiltered view of the of of reality. It's you know what is really happening. And when you join a
Find The Truth On The Floor
SPEAKER_00business, you you can't do that from behind a from behind a desk. You have to be out in front of colleagues and customers, turning up unannounced moments that matter. So whether that's the first hour, the last hour, weekends, bank holidays. But in my experience, you really can't solve a problem that you don't understand. Yeah. One of the people who really inspired me to do this was when I was working at Sainsbury's, Justin King arrived and wrote to every store manager and said that he would he'd made a commitment that he'd meet every store manager within four weeks. Wow. And nobody nobody believed that, but to his credit, within four weeks, he'd done a roadshow around the business, met every store manager, and was hugely impressive in terms of getting people on side through through listening. So he must have he must have used a helicopter to do that. Well, he he he he must have done. But what was what was what was very good about that is he got he got the team of cynical doubters on side very quickly, and what was the most impressive is he then summarised the the quick wins, what he was going to do, and more impressively, what he wasn't going to do, but why. So using using that inspiration, when I arrived at Lincolnshire Co-op, I had a lot less stores to get around, but I visited all 100 food stores on arrival and so that the I could get to know the team, the business, and the the trading environment, and that was a really great way of finding out the the store estate that I'd inherited and what some of the initiatives were that we'd need to go on and build into the plan.
SPEAKER_01And did you find because I hear this an awful lot from my days, way way back with um Superdrug, when I visited stores and talked to not just the store managers but the staff and so on and so forth, which did quite quite often, it seemed to me that they really know on the ground what's going on and how the business is doing. Not obviously, it is a different perspective, I know, from people in senior roles at head office and so on and so forth, but it's the people in the stores who really seem to know what's going on. It was that is that your experience?
SPEAKER_00That's that that's always been the case. And the successful retail businesses are the ones that, regardless of size, close the gap between the shop floor and the support office and make sure that you know there's a really open culture of feedback and being able to influence change. And I think the most effective retailers that I've worked for and with have done that very, very well. There's a one of my very uh strong team members who I work with at Vodafone, Ree Morley, um I saw on LinkedIn only this week, is going back to the floor in Sainsbury's, where she's now working to try and help the teams through hot weather and build up experience and knowledge, so then take back into the the HR agenda at Sainsbury's. So I I think it's very easy. A lot of retailers talk to doing this, but when you get examples of retail leaders and people from the support offices that do that regularly, it makes a massive difference.
SPEAKER_01I'll tell you what, if she goes, this isn't just Sainsbury's, it's affected everybody in the really hot weather last week, and I think we're gonna get we're we're recording this uh episode in the first week of July. We're kind of in between heat waves, but one thing that became very apparent, which I'm sure you would know the reason for, is that most of the chiller units were were shut down. And I uh I read that that's basically because the compressors that drive them, which are outside, just overheat because they they're they're working overtime and so forth. So maybe this is something that you know if if we're gonna continue to get mid-30s every summer, then uh maybe we need to have a look at that.
SPEAKER_00I think this this is a challenge that's as as old as time, that that one in terms of having old refrigeration units that have to cope with with heat waves, it's really challenging. But equally, it's also important to point out it's shopkind week that's been sponsored by the Association of Convenience Stores and Retail Trusts. And I think it's a really good example where the colleagues working in the stores that are customer facing aren't accountable for keeping refrigeration going, but they bear the brunt of everybody's frustration if they want to deal with all the the disruption that that that has resulted in. So I I think but that that's a really that's a really good example of truth. If you if you walk into a food retailer and there are challenges around refrigerations, you need that unfiltered view of reality, and I guess be really clear about what then can be done as a direct result. Yeah. I I think in in the first 90 days is is really getting that view. You can't solve a problem that you don't understand, and seeing it for yourself in front of colleagues that deal with customers every day is equally the most important.
SPEAKER_01And those four businesses uh we we were using the your the truth, trust, traction, and tempo, which will come onto the those. We're using those four businesses as examples. Did you find that when you walked in in the first 90 days and and try getting getting your head around what the challenges were, were they all very different, or or did you see a kind of a theme emerging which could be applied to all four of those very different businesses?
SPEAKER_00I think it's a it's a really good point because uh each of the four were very different businesses in different sectors, then I think the
Trust As The Currency Of Change
SPEAKER_00the thing that unites them was around the communication of where the business was up to at that at that point in time, and it it fits in nicely into the trust piece because in every in every turnaround, the trust is a currency that buys change and the success of being able to get in there. So you need to understand the truth. Getting people on side is is much harder because they they need to understand the context and what what your role as a senior leader is in that organization. So, a really good example when I arrived in NYCHA, I I had a very corporate background before I arrived in NYCHA, which is clearly a very different business. It's a it's a delivered wholesaler supplying 1200 independent retailers, and the key thing I needed to do was get the the corporate retailers on side. But that was a very a very different approach, very different approach to that with different influencing styles. Because if you're in a corporate retailer, it's very direct. Independent retailer is is indirect influence, and you can't tell an independent entrepreneur what to do because it's it's their business. So you what you really needed to do is get them on side by how you could add value to them through cutting out costs, selling more, or ultimately driving profit. So I think your influence and ability when you move organizations and sectors is really key.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Okay, so let's move on to traction. Tell us about tell us about that.
SPEAKER_00Well, traction is really about how you prove that we're making progress. So that's the classic early visible
Traction Through Quick Wins
SPEAKER_00momentum and quick wins that you're able to deliver. And this has to be done very carefully because you don't want to overcommit in a new organization and set yourself up to fail. So this is around, in my view, momentum's created by evidence, not presentations. It's it's the classic, don't tell me you're funny, tell me a joke. You have to prove that you can come good on something when you when you land. And a good example of this was my time as as Vets now as an interim COO. The contacts there, there'd just been a big organizational change, a significant reduction in headcount, and we were just about to get into the peak summer trading period. So the traction there that I was able to lead was around the operating model. The number one focus for me was supporting the business on salary controls, resourcing, and ensuring that the clinics could stay open during the peak period. So that it was really clear that despite all of the uncertainty around the reorganisation, the the status quo needed to be protected. And my my number one focus there to get everybody on side was to bring my expertise in into salary planning and and making sure that we had the right colleagues in at the right place at the right time. It's the oldest cliche in retail, whether it's a clinic or a supermarket. But but actually that was that was really making sure everybody knew their role in that and was able to clarify the accountability was was really good. So I I think without oversimplifying it, in a new organization as a new leader, you've just got to share what good looks like and make sure that everybody can understand how you're then gonna measure that. Similarly, in Lincolnshire Co-op, I use one KPI to get the food business moving, which was the average basket, because that was average basket transactions a great measure because you can use lots of different levers to pull. But ultimately, if you're if you're concerned about declining footfall, if one extra item goes in the basket from a food perspective point of view, you can you can do really well from a from a sales point of view. And we delivered 9% growth in food in the first year of Lincolnshire Co-op by getting everybody united behind one KPI and making that really a consistent focus of the of the food team. So I think it's it's having a really clear view what the what the quick win is, but not overcomplicating it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Because there seems to be I mean, we could do a whole separate podcast on retail KPIs. Um it feels being a bit a touch cynical, it feels that there's a number out there that are probably past their sell by date, and maybe we need to start particularly maybe use AI to have some more relevant KPIs in in the industry.
SPEAKER_00Well, I I think AI is going to change the game because what would have taken a large number of people, a large amount of time, can be done at a touch of a button now, and
AI In Retail And Real ROI
SPEAKER_00there are many great businesses that are using AI very cleverly. And you can see, I think MS in their transformation have put AI into the hands of every store colleague and are taking out a lot of non-value added activity to sort of tailor their task and category management. And I think it's uh and that's terrific. I started my career at MS, and they wouldn't have been famous for traction. They didn't even accept credit cards or open Sundays when I arrived, albeit that might be predating my career somewhat. The the transformation that Stuart Machin and the MNS team are doing is really, really impressive, actually. And I think you're right, AI will be able to do that very consistently and very well.
SPEAKER_01And I also saw, I think it was earlier this week that Randy and his team up in Morrison's are saying that they've taken out what something just a shade over 900 million by using AI. I didn't read the detail of where that's come from, but I guess it's going to be similar to that example he just said with with uh with uh MS.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think understandably there's a lot of colleagues that are very concerned around job security, but equally for the I think there was a really good case study I read recently where IKEA had taken out a lot of colleagues out of the out of their stores but had retrained them all into interior designers. So uh actually that's a that's a fantastic example which benefits the business because they were able to re-train colleagues into selling more IKEA products and convert their skill and expertise and loyalty to IKEA by doing that. And I think the world needs more positive stories about AI that we can demonstrate to the cynical and to those people that are concerned about security, where they should be maybe a little bit more open-minded. It's it's definitely here to stay, but I think we need some more good case studies like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I just to just quickly on on that. I mean, I I still haven't kind of found my place with AI and so forth, and I I do adopt this very cynical, and you know, it hallucinates, and we know might have bias and doesn't understand the concept of jeopardy, and maybe it will, and that'll be a frightening point. But you know, you and I are both old enough to remember pre-internet days, even pre-email. And of course, we were all told sold this Nirvana, this you know, fantastic, oh, we're all gonna have more leisure time because it's gonna be email and all the rest of it. And of course, the complete opposite happened. And I always just wonder whether we're gonna say, you know, see a similar thing with with with AI, because we're we're very yeah, very early in the journey still.
SPEAKER_00No, absolutely, and and you're right. I I can remember my first mobile phone and what job I was doing, thinking that was gonna change my life, and emails. What's the line about emails if you don't if you don't look after them and feed them well enough, they'll turn into a meeting. It's it's a real it's a real challenge, uh, and and yeah, I agree. So, but but actually I think from an AI perspective, again, the early adopters are really demonstrating within retail how to get traction and tempo and you know the the case studies within there. I think the way to get a chief operating officer or a CEO energized about it is putting the ROI against it. So whether it's Morrison's or IKEA, I think there are more case studies now which are helpful because they can put a yes, this there's going to be a cost investment in this, but the the payback quite often can be in in months, not years now. And if you put a pound note saving against it, if it unlocks greater saving within a PL, that's that's the way to get uh get traction. And uh and I I think that the the tempo just to finish off is really the how do you make the improvements stick?
Tempo And Making Change Stick
SPEAKER_00How do you get an operating rhythm whereby you've you can sustain and continue the improvements that you've made? I mean, turnaround turnarounds don't fail because people can't change, they fail because organizations go back to their their old habits, um, or uh they're not consistently challenged. I mean, there's there's a really good case study with uh what's happened under Next, under Lord Wolfson, who's consistently focused on continuous improvement, store design, stock management, the multi-channel journey, and you know, Next have outperformed the retail stocks and the share price have consistently gone on. And quite often, I don't think gets maybe the column inches as as much these days that they maybe deserve, given how they've protected their share in in clothing and and moved ahead of the curve from an omni-channel point of view. So again, my my examples for that around operating rhythm is using specific examples. I think it tends to be quite often in businesses cross-functional initiatives that can be a real saving. So when I arrived at Linkshire Co-op, we had a very ambitious program of store opening, but we didn't really have a program and a critical path that united each of the different component parts of the business to perform as as well as they could. Again, easily fixed. So the learnings there, the tricks on the first store opening, we weren't as necessarily joined up as we could do. But by the time we'd opened the second store on my watch, we were able to have a cross-functional team. We had a critical path. Everybody knew what their role was in delivering the success, and we embraced an opportunity of continuous improvement, and that and that really helped. So I think that is really just making sure that the improvements that you've identified then stick for longevity.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And did you we we've just got maybe a minute left. And I wanted to ask you in all those businesses did you
Bridging Support Office And Stores
SPEAKER_01find the did you encounter again, it's kind of a little bit of a retail cliche, but the the relationship between head office or as you said earlier, support centre, which I think more enlightened people refer to them as, but that relationship in the support centre, the centre and the field, the the the store estate. Certainly in my day in retail, it was a command and control parent-child relationship. Did you find that in any of those businesses, or or in your experience, is that now maturing and becoming far more of a you know uh collaborative relationship?
SPEAKER_00I think I think it's improving, but in any in any business, you you'll always get the them and us culture between whoever's on the shop floor and the support office. And the only times that that will really change for the better is when the guys who are in the stores will get regular access to the senior leaders in whatever organization and can see and trust that the the values have been role modelled, that they understand the why the business is going in the direction that that it is, and and gets regular access to the organization so it doesn't feel hierarchical. There's that's in every in every business that I've worked in in all my retail career, there's always been those challenges. But I think the opportunity is about visible access to great leaders. I mean it's an old phrase, but Tom Peters' line about management by walking about is as relevant in 2026 as it was when it was first written down. Yeah, I think it's I think it's a good point. I think the the the biggest the one-word connection under all of this is the why. Do the people who are serving customers understand why the business is doing what it is in the way that it is, and if they can do and understand their role in it, I then I think you've you've landed a great transformation if you're able to lead over that sort of that sort of claim to fame.
SPEAKER_01That is a great place to end on. Steve, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. So that's all from what's in the box for
The Why And Final Takeaways
SPEAKER_01now. New episodes will be dropping every two weeks, so please stay tuned. And if you want to find out more about Pogstech, please follow the link in the description. But thanks so much for listening, and thank you, Steve Leach.