What to Say When You Don't Know What to Say (BIRVAM)

This episode is about a communication technique I developed called BIRVAM. It is a six-step process involving reflective listening and supportive responses, which is particularly effective when you want to be helpful but are unsure of what to say. While the steps can be used in any order, the most critical component is "V" for Validation. Validating statements are healing statements. When someone receives a BIRVAM response, they feel heard, understood, and supported.

This technique was discussed during my 2020 interview with Michelle Herman, LCSW, for her podcast "Peace By Piece." 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Peace by Piece podcast. I am Michelle Herman, and this is where I interview inspiring people with interesting stories, helping to expand your world one conversation at a time. All right, welcome, Scott Freed. Welcome back. You are my favorite and only recurring guest.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

I think you say that to all your guests.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Well, you're my only recurring guest.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

I'm very honored.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Me too. So last time when we were talking about teens in self-harm, we ended on a cliffhanger, which was your acronym called Burvam. And Burvam is in your book, How to Raise an Elegant Teen, The ABCs of Gen Z Parenting, that I just learned was a book you wrote in 90 days, which is amazing because there's a lifetime of knowledge in here.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Well, the reason I wrote it in 90 days is because I've been teaching it for 15 years in lectures. And at the end of the talk, I would lay all my books out on the table at the back of the room. And all the parents would line up to buy the books, and they would say, Which of these books has everything you just taught us tonight? And I would say, I haven't written that one yet. And they would say, Well, write it already. So I had me having done it 15 years, I just basically sat down last summer and said, Okay, gonna write it. And so put I basically codified my lecture and put it into writing. And so now that's why, that's why it only took 90 days. It took 15 years to create, but 90 days to actually codify it.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Amazing. Well, I'm glad you did. So Burr VAM is an acronym that you created after years of gathering information from many different sources. Correct. I know it's a six-step communication technique that you say in your book that involves reflective listening and supportive responses. I use Burvam all the time as a parent. Well, not all the time, when I remember. And I found it so helpful that I invited you back to share with us your six-step Burr Vam acronym. Hit it, Scott.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

I want to tell the truth. You know, I have this expression where we tell the truth as soon as we know it. And I'm just gonna tell the truth as soon as I know it. I know that you want me to do burvamp and I will. And as you were saying, hit it, I got a text about my friend who's on a ventilator past three weeks with COVID, and he just went into cardiac arrest. So I just need to acknowledge that that is happening, and that's the truth of life. Burvam, what burvam is about. What do you do when you don't know what to do? What do you say when you don't know what to say? When the terrible blow arrives, when you look down on your desk at your phone and you see there's something that's bad news, and you don't know what to do, that's that's when you burvam. So that's a great way to walk into this. From reading different books on listening and learning from different people on communication and the best way to have interpersonal conversations. Some of what I've put together in Burvam comes from Alanon, The 12 Steps. Some of it comes from my HIV support group, some of it comes from a really great book by Valerie Poor on overcoming personality disorders like borderline personality disorder. And some of it comes from the Mankind Project, My Men's Group, where we talk about warrior communication and warrior type listening. So from these sources, I put together this acronym, which basically is what do you say when you don't know what to say? What do you do when you don't know what to do? When the terrible blow arrives, you burvam. And the reason I created it at all was because one day after one of my talks at a weekend retreat with some teenagers, I was handed a piece of paper by one specific teenage girl that she'd written to me in her handwriting these words. I hide my cuts all the time, and I gave myself to someone who never texted back. I know I will never be enough. It doesn't work for girls like me. I don't deserve a happily ever after. I'm a monster. When a mother or father or loving other reads that, hears that, the initial impulse is to negate, to take that child and remove the pain by negating. No, you're not a monster, and it will work out for girls like you, and there will be a happily ever after. Our initial impulse is to do the opposite of burham. And what that does when we negate them, all that does is make it worse. I'll give you an example. Think to yourself, Michelle, or any of your listeners, anytime when you were a kid and your parents and you said to your parents, I'm so scared, and they said, Don't worry. Did it take the worry away or made you worry more? Or the famous expression that I like to use all the time you're at a you're at a diner and the waiter or the waitress puts a plate in front of you and says, Don't touch the plate, it's hot. How many of us touch the hot plate? So burvam is the opposite of what we usually do. Our impulse is to negate, dismiss, take the pain away, say things like, it'll pass, it gets better. Time heals all wounds. Burvam is the opposite of that, and it works because it's unexpected, and it's what it's the one thing we don't get when things go bad.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

And what I learned from Burvam and from listening to you just now is that so often I just want to soothe my child or I say those things really because the intention is to help them feel better. And until you use the word negate, I didn't realize how that had come across. How how my trying to soothe or or for hold could be internalized as negating.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

So let's break it down. Your desire to soothe, which could be seen as negating, is really in part, if I may, your desire to not be willing to see your child in pain. Obviously, because you're a good mother and a good human being, we don't want to see people in pain. So we want to soothe them. But the way to help other people in pain is to help them be in pain, to sit with the pain. Burbam makes room for the experience as opposed to fixing it or solving it or dismissing it. It makes it about the other person in pain, not about us witnessing the person in pain.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Is your expression when life hurts, let it. And in those moments, I have to tell myself that my job as a parent, as a therapist, as a friend in this moment is to sit with them and let life hurt.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

So what we do when someone's in pain is to sit with them and let life hurt. And comma, burvan. So what I want to do is do a quick rundown because I hear I can hear all your listeners saying, What are the letters? Just say them already. So I'm gonna say what right? I'm gonna just give you the letters right now. Break them down one by one. But in the interest of not losing anybody who's paying attention, here are what the letters stand for. Burvan. Breathe, investigate, or invite, repeat, validate, appreciate, and finally mediate. Now, the way this works is I like to do it in that exact order, but you can pick any letter you want and do them in any order. It's all about how you like to listen. But let's break it down one by one. Well, in fact, you're the podcast director. You tell me how you want to proceed. Let's go in order.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Let's go in order. Let's start with breathe since I I've got to do that.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Let's use the example of the letter that the girl gave me. I'm a monster. I cut myself because I gave my body to a guy who ignored me and never texted back. I don't deserve a happily ever after. That's the letter I got. Girls like me, it doesn't work for girls like me. What's the first thing you do when you hear, when you read, when you see that? The first thing you do is be, breathe. And there are a number of reasons you breathe. One, it buys you time because you don't know what to say, or you don't know what to do, and you need a moment, and you deserve to have a moment. So you breathe. But the other reason that you breathe is because the person who's about to tell you their pain or about their pain needs to breathe too. The fastest way to get to a place of healing is through breath. So we model it for the person in pain. One, we breathe because it buys us time. Two, we breathe because we are modeling for that person who's about to reveal to us their pain, what it feels like and what it looks like to take a moment in self-care. Three, another reason we breathe is because physiologically, it's an invitation. When we open our lungs, when we open our larynx, when we let air in, we are acknowledging the privilege of breath that we are alive. Life force comes in. And then when we exhale, we are more present. And I will prove it. Listen to how I'm talking right now. I'm not breathing. I'm coming at you, I'm coming at you, I'm not breathing, but now breathing. I'm very aware of my breathing right now. I just breathe and now I'm calm. There's a difference. We breathe and then we're calm. And if a teenager, a child, any of any loved one comes to us in pain, the thing they need most is a person who can hold their pain with our calmness. So breath is the first one because it buys you time, because it's modeling how they can be in touch with their feelings, and most of all, it's life. And it supplies the energy for the next letter, which is I investigate or invite. Investigate sounds a little bit like NCIS or something like that. So I play with the word invite instead. Basically, what it means is ask questions. Listen carefully. All of my listeners, our listeners right now, I want you to hear this. If I say anything on this podcast, the most important thing I say will be what I say right now. In fact, I will say it twice. Here we go. Every teenager, in fact, every human being wants to be listened to, and that's the law of the universe. And we all know that. But here's the thing we don't consider. Inasmuch as every one of us wants to be listened to, we need to know that we were heard. So the first part is being listened to, and that's invite or investigate. People want to talk about their pain. Even when they say, I don't want to talk about it, they want to talk about it. There's the contradiction of being alive. I don't want you to know, but I need you to know. So you invite conversation with questions that are non-judgmental. Things like, I'm interested in learning what happened. I'm curious about when or where or how often. I'd like to know if you'd share with me what happened next. I'd love it if you give me some examples. Now, Michelle, I'm going to put you on the spot. I just gave you four sentences. What did all the four sentences begin? What word did they all begin with? I am. I am. Inviting sounds like an I am statement. I am here. I'm listening. I'm curious. I'd like to know. As opposed to, you got to calm down, you're being crazy, you're going to make yourself crazy. This is enough already with the tears. Stop crying. All of that is out. And I is in. It's an invitation. You is a pointed finger. You got to stop crying. That's a pointed finger. I is an open door. I'm interested is an invitation into someone's world.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

I just wanted to ask you a question. Because in your chapter, in the part of the book that talks about the inviting questions, you say, in ask any question except for why. So why not ask why?

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Thanks for reminding me of that. We don't ask why because why is a shaming sentence. Why is a sentence, one word sentence, and it's only shaming. It's also a dead end, especially with a teenager. The only answer you'll get is because. And that's the end of the conversation. What we're doing here is inviting a conversation, investigating the situation. And if you ask why, and it ends with because, there's nowhere to go. Why also has a pejorative sound, right? Why has a sound a sense of judgment to it? So when? Where? How? By the way, to anybody that's listening right now, why would be a really good word to remove from our language, our lexicon. Why just doesn't work. It only makes people defensive and stops the conversation. And if you've ever been in a conversation with somebody who stopped talking to you, it might be because you use the word why unknowingly, unwittingly. So let's just remove why and find other ways to say why. Here's a way to do it. I'm curious about where you were when this happened. The way to get people talking is to get them to talk specifically. The thing that I that helped me heal the most when about my father's death were were people who said, tell me about the temperature in the room around your father's deathbed. Tell me the color of your socks. I'm interested in knowing where you were, what side of the bed, and where were the rest of the family members? Giving the person an opportunity to recreate, create the scene, puts them in that place. And if you're being non-judgmental and open-hearted and radically accepting of whatever's coming at you, they'll keep talking. Because we've said this before in the last podcast, anyone will give up their secrets if you love them enough radically, unconditionally, fiercely, they will tell you their secrets because you're loving them enough. So why sounds like judgment and condition? There are other ways to make it sound less conditional and much more unconditional and radical, radically accepting.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Scott, I'm curious about what in those questions helped you around your father's death. Did you notice how I asked that, by the way? I was gonna ask why that was helpful, but I reframed it to the I am statement.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

My father's death was traumatic, even though we knew it was happening. I stayed up all night with him, with my sister and twin brother in the hospital room. And every hour on the hour, we moved our chairs closer to his body because his breathing got softer, more shallow, and we just needed to be near the sound of his breathing because it was this it was the proof that he was still alive. We knew that he was at one point in the next 10, 15 hours, going to take that final inhalation and not exhale, or the final exhalation and not inhale. But somehow knowing that he was still breathing in and breathing out gave us hope. The reason I needed people to ask questions in that way, and it was healing, was because even though we knew he was dying, I knew he was dying, the final breath was traumatic for me. It stuck. I got trapped in time. I was stranded in my grief the moment he stopped breathing. The way out, the life raft, the buoy to pull me to shore were the questions. Tell me the color of your socks. Where were you standing? What side of the bed? What was the temperature in the room like? I'm curious to know. So that I could go back into my body, imagine looking down at my feet. I remember the socks, they were extra thick and cushion-y. I remember I was on the right, I was on his left side of his body, and my mother was on the other side. It put me back in the room, which helped me with the loving acceptance of the listener. It moved me back out of the room and into the hallway and into my life, back into the present moment where I exist, not stranded in time in the moment when the trauma began. Questions are important. They tell the listener, the person talking, that they are valued. Your question to me tells me you value my memories. You value the moments I experienced it. We all want to be heard. We all want to be heard because that's the law of the universe. But part two of that sentence is the one we never really get, which is we need to know that we were heard. It's not just that we want to be heard, we need to know that we were heard. And this is true most of all for teenagers. It's why teenagers talk so much, because they need to know they're being heard and they don't think they're being heard. So, how do you prove to a teenager or anyone for that matter that they have been heard? You get to the next letter in Burvam, which is R. Repeat. You repeat back what you just heard, not the gist of what you heard, not your idea of what you heard, not a summation of what you heard, and not your analysis or judgment of what you heard. You repeat back word for word what you heard. We said this in the last podcast. I need to hear my words in your mouth. I need to see my words on your lips. That heals people. So you repeat back what you remember, and then you ask, Did I get it right? I want to make sure I got that right. So it could sound something like this. As I understand it, what I what you've been saying is, and then you repeat back what you heard. Or what I heard you say was, and then you repeat back what you heard. But then you got to ask, do I understand you correctly? Did I get it right and how you felt? And if you get it wrong and they say, No, you didn't get it right, don't take it personally. Just say, got it, got it wrong. Whoa, got that one wrong. Tell me what it was that I got wrong. Good. And repeat back the correct phrase. People need to know that they were heard. This is not about you, the listener. This is about the person speaking, needing to be oriented, grounded, found, discovered in their grief, in their emotions, in their anxiety, in their lostness. And if they're not talking or not responding as much as you want them to do, because you feel uncomfortable, you can say something like, I'm noticing some blank in your face. I'm noticing some sadness in your face. I notice a tremble in your lip when you say that. I notice you're looking down and to see if you can get them to talk a little bit more. Am I right about that? Did I get the picture of what you were feeling? But the best thing to do for R in the Burvam is to literally reiterate exactly what you heard word for word. It will heal them and it will prove to them that you are listening and that they're not alone in this existential existence that they're experiencing.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Okay, so so we hear something that we don't know how we should respond, how or what to which way to respond. First thing is the B. We take a breath, we breathe. Right? It also buys you time, which is how I remember the B. The second part is invite, inviting questions, but with I am statements. I am interested in what happened and never use why. Yes, when, yes, where, and then the third part is the R, repeat. So using their words in your mouth, not your words, but their words from your mouth.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Showing them their words in your mouth, letting them hear their words in your mouth, having them experience their words in your mouth. And they're not alone. That's the essence of interpersonal communication, which brings us to the. Now, here's the deal with the. If you forget all the letters in Burbam, or if you jumble them up and make it a different sounding word, or add your own letters, which is great because you're doing it your way. The most important letter, in my opinion, is the next letter, V. So if you don't breathe, and if you don't investigate, and if you don't repeat, at the very least, at the very least, at the very least, do the V. And the V is validate. So validating statements are healing statements. They are the opposite of negating statements. When a teenager writes a letter that says, I'm a monster, it doesn't work for girls like me. If the impulse to sue them is to say, it's not true, that's not true, you're not a monster, the opposite of that would be a validating statement, which sounds like something like this. That must be so scary. It must be so saddening. Validating statements are statements that begin with the words, it must be so. Or phrases like, if I were in that situation, I'd feel the same way. Or this one I learned on the old TV show Frasier. He once, he played a psychologist, once said this to one of his clients. I don't blame you for feeling that way. That's a validating statement, not negating, not solving, not judging, just validating. I Don't blame you for feeling that way. Here are some other validating statements. Most people would have that reaction. No wonder you've been crying. No wonder you've been scared. No wonder you've been so quiet. I can't imagine how you went through that. What a frustrating situation to be in. That's a tough spot. There's a video game that my nephews play called Overwatch. And in it is a character, an icon, an avatar named Mercy. And if you listen to my talk, you'll hear me talk about Mercy all the time. She's an angel that you could pick as your avatar that heals you. She's very fragile as Mercy is. But when she flies to you to help you and give you extra life in the game of Overwatch, she says a number of things. First, she says, Mercy has been summoned. Then she says, heroes never die. And as she leaves you, she says the most validating statement of all. And it's this one. Mercy says, so that's what it feels like. So that's what it feels like. Perhaps the most validating statement that we could say to a person in any kind of pain is simply the words, so that's what it feels like. Not solving it, not fixing it, but attending to it, flying to their side. But my favorite validating statement is the hardest one to say. So listen carefully. And if you're taking notes, write it down. It's a short three-letter word. When someone's in pain, when someone's having a panic attack, when someone is crying, when someone is angry, especially when they're angry, the most validating comment you can make is the three-letter word, yes. I'm so scared, yes. I don't know what to do, yes. I'm so angry, yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

I can tell you that works. I have been practicing that with my own children and with my niece when I pick her up and she cries. And the yes, yes, yes goes so far. Truly thank you for that gift.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

You're welcome. Because most people, especially teenagers and children, are expecting the negation. They're expecting to be dismissed, they're expecting to have to say, you don't understand. And when we hear when they hear the word yes, it stops them in their tracks because they recognize they are being understood. It's very calming.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

So when I picked my four-year-old niece up from school the other day, she was just sobbing from the second she saw me. I want my mommy, I want my mommy. And first I got nervous and wanted to soothe. But I took a deep breath and I said, Yes. Yes, I know you want your mommy. Yes, yes. And we walked to the car and I yes the whole time. The second she got into the seat of the car, she stopped crying. She said it maybe one or two more times. And I said, Yes, we're going to your mommy, or yes, and I want my mommy too. I know what that feels like. And I told my sister, and she stopped. She stopped crying, and it was wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

So let me ask you a question. What's the in your case, what's the impulse to not go to yes? What's that about?

SPEAKER_01 25:01

You know, there's something about when you hear, which I think it's much more it happens more with your own children, but like as it starts from when they're an infant and you hear them crying, the impulse is to you I I feel something in my chest. My sister feels it somewhere else, but it's the same feeling. And we often talk about how it's unbelievable how when the other kid, when it's not your child, how you don't have that visceral feeling of, oh, I must, what is this? Is the diaper dirty? Are they hungry? Are they are their needs being met? And if not, you know, we we soothe babies by shushing them. And the pediatrician once said, Don't worry about it. And you know the vocal cords are working well, you know, and that helps. So I think that the urge is to just not want them to hurt or be in distress or ultimately having it.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Absolutely, which makes you a good parent and a good person, and it doesn't work to do it that way, it's not as effective. Maybe it works, it's not as effective because it doesn't show them that you're where they are, right? You won't be where they are. So here's why I'm gonna it's not hearing them, it's not really hearing them. I want to invoke my twin brother here. By the way, you probably should think about it. Interviewing him, he's brilliant. But he has this thing that he says he works with children with cancer, and he says that a lot of times a child who who loses their hair to chemotherapy will come home when they come home from the hospital, they'll find out that their mother or their father or both have shaved their hair too. Yeah. To show them that they're in solidarity. I'm with you in this. I'm trying to understand what it feels like to be you. He tells this beautiful story, he'll tell it better, of when his middle son got shampoo in his eyes as a little boy and he was crying because it was stinging him so badly. My brother put shampoo in his eyes and said, Now I know how it feels. You're not alone. I can't take the stinging away, but I can feel it with you. Validating statements, validating statements are statements that give the person in pain the opportunity to experience that you're feeling their experience with them. They're not alone. But this is important. Listen carefully. If you want your validating statement to feel like it's true and authentic, you gotta make it about the truth of the situation, not about how you feel about the situation. The truth is how the person in pain feels. If you don't agree with it, it doesn't matter. If you don't think what they're saying is important enough to cry about, it's not about you. If they're sad or in pain or frightened or any emotion, then that's where they are. Meet people where they are. So the truth about the situation is how they feel about the event, not about how you feel how they feel about it. That's judging. So if you want the validating statement to feel true to the person who's going to hear it, it must be so difficult to feel that way. You have to make it about the truth of their situation, not your situation, not how you feel about their pain, but how they feel about their pain. Is that clear?

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Yes, and that is a challenge. So I think that the breath and the just starting with the yes, if you don't know how to do the rest, is what really works for me.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

So validate is really important. The nicest thing I ever heard after I told so many people, dozens, dozens of people that I got infected with HIV so many years ago. The nicest response I ever got was from my childhood best friend's mother, Lila. Her name is Lila. She was sitting on the driveway of the house where they grew up, and I spent most of my early childhood. And I was in my 30s at the time, and she said, How's your life going, Scotty? And I said, I told her I got infected with HIV. And her response, which was the best response anyone ever gave me then and still now, was simply this. Oh my, that must have been so frightening for you. I've never forgotten her response. There have been hundreds, if not thousands, because of the work that I do, thousands of people whom I've told about my HIV status. I remember Lila's response because hers was the only one that sounded like this. Oh my, that must have been so frightening for you. She helped me find myself in the situation and it healed me, which brings me to the next letter. After you validate, this is really important. The A is appreciate. Appreciating statements tell the person who's talking about their pain that it's okay to have shared this much, to have disclosed, because at this moment they're in an altered state and they may feel afraid of being judged, exposed, afraid that their secret's going to be used against them. So when you give an appreciating statement, you're basically saying to them, your secret is safe with me, and I'm not going to betray your confidence. And I and I'm still here. I'm still here, even though you're in an altered state. Appreciating statements sound like this. I really appreciate you telling me this. Thank you for explaining your feelings. Now I understand your point of view. Or simply thank you. Words like, I believe in you, I admire you. It means so much that you trusted me with this. Appreciating statements seal the deal and give the person sharing the permission to exhale after they've taken that deep breath because they know they're safe. And if, remember, if you don't get the order right, it's okay. There's nothing wrong. In fact, it's really great to start with an A. Someone comes to you and says, I'm in so much pain, it might be really interesting to do an A first and go after you breathe or before you breathe. Wow, I really appreciate you wanting to talk to me about this. The order doesn't matter as long as you get them in there, and especially the V. Appreciation is what's missing from a society. When I teach fourth and fifth graders about bully prevention education, I teach them that the opposite of the that's so gay, which is the catch-all expression for any bully these days, that's okay, you're so gay, my God, you ate that last piece of pizza, you're so gay. You're wearing the sneakers that I, they're so last year, they're so gay. The opposite, the other side of that's so gay is I admire you. The reason we say that's so gay at all, or we bully other people, is because we're trying to connect with them. It's a primitive form of communication. Bullying is a primitive form of connection. It's basic, it's Neanderthal, it's all those negative words, but it's still connection. The other side of that connection, more adult, more self-actualized, would be something sounding like this. I really admire you. I really appreciate you. So the way to turn the culture of bullying in any school around is to get a grade, an entire grade of kids working on a project where they admire each other and they can see that which they admire in themselves in the process. Appreciation is a concept that's underrated. We need to do it a lot more. Which brings me to M, the last letter, which is mediate. I didn't say solve because burvas would be really kind of on. So, but it's the same thing as solving. But here's the thing we, as the adults in their lives, want to solve everything, and it's not about solving, it's about mediating, it's about helping them figure out the way through the muck of hopelessness. It's about them finding their way through the darkness, but we follow them in the darkness. There was a great song that came out in the 90s by a group called Death Cab for Cutie. And the song, the title of the song is everything that Burvam is about. The title of the song that the teenagers in the 90s listened to, if you were an emo teenager, was I will follow you into the dark. I will follow you into the dark. The other side is the mediation. So here's how you mediate. Instead of saying, I want to solve this, we're gonna fix this, some things can't be solved, and some things can't be fixed, but they can be supported, they can be held. Every emotion has a heft, heaviness, sorrow, extremely heavy, grief, fear, heavy emotions. When those emotions are in somebody else's arms, being redistributed, not so heavy. You're mediating. But here's the catch. By the time you've done the first few letters, B, I, R, V, A, breathe, invite, investigate, repeat, validate, and appreciate, the need to mediate is lessened because most people want the first few letters. That's what they're coming to you for. All they want are the V-I-R-VA. And then by the time you get to M, most of your work is done. So here's how a Burr Vam response could actually sound. Because I put it together. It could sound like this a teenager comes to you or hands you a letter that says, I'm a monster, that's all I'm ever gonna be. Doesn't work for girls like me. The response in a burvamp way would sound like this. So I'm just a little curious to know what happened. And they talk. And as I understand it, what you've been saying is, did I get that right? Great. It must be really difficult to go through that. And I don't blame you for feeling that way. And thank you for sharing your feelings with me. I believe you. I believe in you, and I believe you. Now, let's see if we can figure out a way to resolve this and how I can support you. That's how a boardman response sounds put together. Now, notice I didn't say how I can help you, because people aren't asking for help. They're asking for support. We want to help or support somebody in being in being self-regulating, especially teenagers. We want them to be self-regulating young adults, elegant adults. And an elegant teenager, an elegant young adult is someone who can self-regulate. And the way we help them there is by supporting them to self-regulate. So that's what a Burvam response would sound like coming from our mouths. Let me repeat the letter that she wrote me that teenager years ago. I hide all my cuts all the time. And I gave myself to someone who never texted me back. And I know I will never be enough. It doesn't work for girls like me. I don't deserve a happily ever after. I'm a monster. If we provide her with a birthram response, what she's going to hear on the other side are these words in her heart. I'm with you. I'm here and I'm listening. I got it. Not alone. And I'm considering what it feels like to be in your body, in your shoes, in your experience. And I admire you and I bless you. And we can get through this together. And that's what they want to hear, and that's what we want them to hear. Burvan is simply a device that helps you get them there so that they can feel what they need to feel and you can heal them in the way they need to be healed. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

And I'd like to add that Burr Vam is a device to help them get them there. And it's also what to do when you don't know how to respond.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Right. So I'll teach this to summer camp counselors who are the first responders. They're 19 years old and they're the camp counselor of the eight-year-olds and they or the 13-year-olds. And they discovered that one of their teenage girls is cutting her skin with a ritual instrument. And they're not a social worker, they're not an MSW, they don't have a PhD, they don't know what to say. What, but they're the first responders. They're in the cabin. So before you take them to the camp nurse, before you take them to the director or call the parents, and then whatever happens next, as a first responder, not knowing what to do, they can burv. Yes. They can do something. You don't have to have a PhD to breathe, to investigate, to repeat, to validate, to appreciate, and to offer support. And that's why this works so well.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

It really does. And I share it in my in the parent group that I do also. I do give you credit though. I I also think that your book titled How to Raise an Elegant Teen should also should really be titled How to Raise an Elegant Adult.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

Well, it was supposed to be called that. That was the original idea, Michelle. Really? Yeah, it was. It was going to be called How to Raise an Elegant Adult so that you can uh model what it looks like to be an elegant young adult, teenager. But if I call the book How to Raise an Elegant Adult, I don't think anybody would buy it. And I was afraid that it would offend the parents, but that's really what it's about. The way to raise an elegant teen is to be an elegant adult. They're watching everything we do.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

And we're raising them to be adults that we hope are elegant.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

Exactly. And by elegant, I mean self-regulating. I don't mean knowing how to raise your pinky when you lift a cup of tea. What I mean by elegant is being able to have agency and over your emotions and your life. It's the ability to sit with your pain and joy and know that both are the process of living, that one doesn't discount the other and both are welcome, your highs and your lows. It's being able to have compassion for other people and to do no harm to others. Being elegant is so much more than just knowing the right thing to say. It's being enough.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

You define it so beautifully and the first page of your book. So I'll leave that as the cliffhanger. But I do, Scott, I love I could listen to you forever and ever. And I thank you so much for the work that you do with young people, with adults, with young adults, I guess humans could sum that up. You're you're truly a gift. And for anyone who wants more information on Burvam and on how to raise an elegant teen, you can go to Scott at ScottFreed.com. And I definitely suggest this book to everyone, even if you don't have a teen. If you work with teens or just want to improve yourself, I think it's a really helpful, helpful book. Guide, I should call it as well. Thank you. Scott, before we wrap it up, do you want to add anything?

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Uh yeah, there actually is something I wanted to add, if I may. I just found this slide or this picture in my phone from a I was giving a talk years ago in some school, and I saw this picture on someone's door, uh, a teacher's office door. And I want to share it with your listeners. And it goes, it's not mine, it was the teacher from some school somewhere, and it says, before you speak, think t-n-k. T, is it true? H is it helpful? I is it inspiring, and is it necessary? And K, is it kind? Before you speak, whatever I say, is it true? Is it helpful? Is it inspiring? Is it necessary? And is it kind? And that will guide you to the next thing to say.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

So it's really all about pausing, taking a breath, checking in with yourself and thinking really before you speak.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Because when you get that you're you're being with the other person, you're holding the heft of their emotions with them, and somehow redistributing the weight and making it okay to just be.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

Letting yourself go back into your body to feel or see what what color were my socks, or what was the temperature like in the room.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Being in the moment, finding exactly where we are, because in this very moment everything is okay. In this moment, we are safe. In this moment, we are enough.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Well, Scott, I look forward to our next guest visit, recurring guest visit. And again, thank you. You're the best, and I love you deeply. Thanks for listening. I can be contacted with ideas or feedback at www.beana counseling.com.