Defining Legacy: Meaghan Dorman on Building Enduring Bars

We sit down with the remarkable Meaghan Dorman, a trailblazer in the NYC bar scene. Meaghan, the Bar Director & Partner at Raines Law Room & Dear Irving, shares her personal story of rising through the industry, from the moment she fell in love with hospitality to becoming a key architect of some of the world's most respected cocktail bars. We dive deep into her philosophy on leadership, mentorship, and what the word "legacy" truly means when you're the one building it day by day.  
 As we celebrate Women's History Month. This is a profound conversation about what it takes to build something that lasts. 
Discover the stories behind the bar, the importance of mentorship, and how women can uplift each other in the hospitality space. Tune in for an engaging conversation that goes beyond the cocktails and dives deep into the heart of the bar community!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hi, I'm a kernel and let's Nuri Robit. And this is Bar Talking Talking Bar. You're access to the heartbeat of New York City's bar and hospitality team.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

Hosted from the City of the Naver, we sit down with bartenders, brands and ambassadors, hospitali pros and cocktail lovers.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Whether it's the art of bartending, the hustle behind hospitali, or the wildest bartels, expect raw conversations and eat.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Listen to the people for your favorite cocktails and keep the nyline alive.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

If you love bars, spirits, and the stories that bring them to life, follow us, share, and subscribe to keep the conversations flowing.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

Podcast that you didn't know you need.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

New episodes weekly. Hello. I'm Nuri Robles. And I'm a design Bar Talking.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

We're gonna start by acknowledging everyone who's listening to us every week. Uh people who has been commenting in our social media. We appreciate your time and your likes. And comments. And your comments. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Uh why don't we start by introducing our favorite guest tonight? Today we have a special guest, and I think everybody is so happy. He's gonna be happy to see you here. Uh Megan.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Hello everyone.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Hello, hello. Well, thank you so much for coming. Um, as as we know, we're celebrating uh History Month. Women's History Month. Yes. And um I think uh you are like like a very, very important icon in the industry. Uh we know you for a for a little bit, but uh for our the audience that some people they don't know you. Do you mind introducing yourself, please? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Uh my name is Megan Dorman. Most importantly, I'm a twin and an Aries. And I right now am the bar director and partner at Rain's Lawroom. Rain's Law Room at the William, Dear Irving, Dear Irving on Hudson, Dear Irving on Broadway. Um, I've been there since the very beginning. I'm sure we'll talk about it, but I started as a busser, server, bartender, and have continued on the journey. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Wow, do you know what? And and what I'm liking uh about today's episode it's we want to listen to your story of success because we know like you know the businesses, but people sometimes see the business like the the the person where you know like we who you w where you are right now, but they don't know the progress. And I feel like the progress is the most important part because that's why you build build, you know, history, community, legacy, and as we spoke to some of the guys in the past, uh, I think it's very important to uh all of the those who are new into this service industry or people who have been in the industry to know who you are as a human, as a person, but also the achievements that you have been collecting throughout the years. Uh I know you have been also in panels, you know, like talking about uh things that you have been doing. But uh, we also want to listen to you. Uh and want to hear from you in this uh platform uh and this show.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Yeah, and I think, you know, stay tuned for the whole episode. Yeah. I'm sure it'll all come together. But who I am now as a leader is very influenced from everything I did before. Because you learn a lot about what you want to take with you, what you want to leave behind. You start to trust your own opinions. So it doesn't happen, you know, one day or one promotion. It doesn't change everything. It's it's quite a journey that's not linear.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

So what about if we start uh from uh before you start in the industry? So um you mentioned that you're from Connecticut. Yes. So how do you grow up in Connecticut?

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yeah, I grew up right outside of New Haven, Connecticut. Um we're talking to each other on St. Patrick's Day. My family is Irish. Um, most of the family has been here for a long time. My grandmother immigrated from Dublin uh obviously well before me, but um it's a big part of our family for sure. So I am a twin. We're the oldest. I have two little brothers. My parents still live in Brayford, Connecticut, where I'm from. Um my mom worked in hospitality on and off when I was younger. And I didn't see it as a career right away, but I did see it as like flexible work because she would work kind of depending on what was going on with us, what what what my dad was doing at the time, and it was a good way to fill in. And I also much later in life was like, I was horrible because for a while she was working lunch at the seafood restaurant and she was done at four, and I would start calling the restaurant because I probably wanted to ride somewhere or something, and I was like, but it's after four, and she was like, Lunch is like you know, and then later on I still remember because I was like, I can't believe I was calling my mom's restaurant like it's 4 05. Where are you? Give me a ride.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

So, and and your twin sister?

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Yeah, so my twin is Kate. Um, we're very close, but very different as well. So um she loves a good cocktail. I've made her a lot of margaritas, that's her jam. Um but she does something different in Connecticut. Yeah, she's a paralegal and has lots of sound advice when I need it. Uh it is true that twins they have like a single language. Yeah, so definitely my mom says we had one when we were little because we would we could communicate with each other before anyone understood us. And my mom always tells this story about how we had two cribs and my mom like pokes her head in to say goodnight to us. And it's you know, it's probably 20 seconds, but it feels like because she pops her head in and my crib is empty. Oh no, where's a baby? But then she does the math, and like I've gotten out of my crib across a table, and I'm in my sister's crib. So it was like a my other little Yeah, yeah. But I always tell people like now our secret languages is like I know when my sister wants to leave a party, or like we both know when like we're like okay. So you you you literally do the Irish goodbye. Yeah. Oh, I'm I'm I'm very good at the Irish goodbye. No offense to anybody, but sometimes it's time.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

I mean, it's it's hard, especially like if you're in a party with like 200 people. How are you gonna say goodbye to everyone?

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Well, the other side is that anyone that's married into my family will talk about the Fitzgerald goodbye and how like you're like, okay, I'll meet you at the car. And the husband is sitting in the car for like half an hour. So you either have to go zero goodbyes or it's 200 goodbyes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

So pick your battle.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yeah, I'm I'm very bad at it. Like sometimes I want to say goodbye. And then I end up like talking again.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

But then you start making plans and then you know, yeah, there's always like if you don't go straight, I always say, Oh, I'll be back, I'm gonna go use the restaurant, or I'm gonna go grab a drink.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:00

So then then, you know, you're gone. Yeah. And then they're not looking for you because they think you're grabbing a drink. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Like with your jacket on, like, yes.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

I'm cold.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Uh so growing up, uh, you went to obviously the school, I guess. Uh, did you study something before like going to like industry?

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Yeah, well, I started in hospitality as like my first job when I was 16. Um, I worked at if anybody grew up in the northeast at Friendly's, which was like mostly an ice cream place but kind of a diner. Um, so I was like a busser and an ice cream scooper, and I decorated the ice cream cakes, which was really fun. Um, and that was because like I wanted my own money and I'm still wearing polo, but I was like a 16-year-old that only wanted polo, and my mom was like, No. Um, and then when I went to college in New Haven, I started bartending because I had a friend that was working at the sports bar, and um that was my first experience with like a great hospitality boss. So I had a great boss before I ever had a bad one, which is important. Yeah. Um, but I worked like one or two nights a week during college at a sports bar. You know, I made just enough money to have like a little spending money, but I could focus on school. I did work my way up to football Sunday, so I was pretty good. Um, but then I studied marketing, international marketing, actually, in college, and I really only had one goal, which was to be a New Yorker achieved. Um, but I like I wanted to do marketing. I kind of wanted to work in fashion. I did do a semester abroad in France. Like, I didn't really know where I was going, but it was like I wanted to try to go somewhere else. I knew I could always come home. But um then I looked worked for internships my senior year of college. So New Haven is pretty close to New York, so I did my schedule so I could go into the city. And I just looked on my own. It wasn't really a program through school, but um I applied to a few internships. I wanted to work at Polo, but they didn't call me back. Um but I actually interned at Rockaware, which was Jay-Z's clothing company at the time. And I got adopted by Alanda, love you, and Shali, who were assistants at the time, and they just like adopted me in because they were supposed to kind of like check out all the interns, but they're like, You're gonna stay here. So I actually didn't love the fashion side of it, but I loved the creativity, I love the music, I love the movies, I love that it was like a hostel every day. It was like a very independent spirit uh spirit of what they were building. And I actually got a job right out of college, which was great because I needed one. Um so I was Damon Dash's assistant at Rockefeller and Rockaware, like as my first job. Yeah. And I got an apartment in Harlem and I was like, oh, how old are you? Twenty-two, I think. Like I had just graduated from college. Yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Like coming to your apartment and being like an adult.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Yeah, I have like one of those cool old black and white bathrooms. Um yeah, it was it was it was cool.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Yeah. Uh so then how do you transition through the Yeah?

SPEAKER_01 10:00

So I did a lot of assistant work for probably five or six years in like music and fashion, and I could kind of bounce around like I was on the wrong side of the Rockefeller breakup. I was one of the earlier people that was let go there. Um and then I worked at like J Records for a little while and Sony Classical Music, which was very quiet. But I was in this kind of like pool of assistance that people would call for like short-term work. Um so I did a lot of that, and then I worked for Daituan Thomas, also one of my very important bosses in my life at Harris Publications. He was running Rides and King magazine and then eventually Double XL Magazine. So again, I was doing a lot of like just behind the scenes work. And if you've seen like movies or TV shows about assistance, like I was like sometimes finding private jets and like finding catering and like the new iPhones coming out. Like I was that like gopher girl that was like getting coffee and doing this, and I just like loved being in the background and like kind of supporting art that I cared about.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Wow. That's which in another sense, like that's kind of also hospitality, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Yeah, and it leads a lot into why I was a good bartender, why I'm a good manager, of like the that willingness to work behind the scenes, to execute, to kind of like work in support of this bigger idea. Was really like, you know, it took me a while to connect all the dots, but it was very influential to like how I have moved forward. And I was working on all those industries at a time where like it it wasn't going well. I think media has died like 10 more times since I worked there, but I started bartending again when I needed extra money or when these jobs became freelance. Um I worked at Coogan's in Washington Heights, which a lot of people know about. It's closed now. I did a couple of restaurant jobs, but I had also at the same time gotten really into cocktails. Like just kind of on my own. Um, in media, there's always kind of like, what are people writing about? What are like we would work on events with people? Like it's interesting to see that other side of it now again, you know, like people would sponsor things. Um so I was kind of an adjacent and I was really into it on my own. Like I went to Little Branch, I went to Death and Company, but I was definitely like, how do you get one of these jobs? Okay. You know?

SPEAKER_03 12:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Craig's list, open call. That's the answer.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

And did you study like when you went to apply for the job? Were you already a separate bartender or were you?

SPEAKER_01 12:24

I was bartending. I had bartended at Coogan's. Well, the first thing about bartending in New York City is getting New York City experience, like literally anywhere. Yeah. Even though I realized nobody checks. But um, so I worked at a restaurant in Harlem as well that was like kind of doing cocktails, and I also learned a lot from that because no one was really in charge. And it was like this cocktail list was so serious, but we never had the right things for it. And so I was like, okay. And it was also one of those places where the information was very separated. Like as a server, I couldn't go behind the bar and make drinks. I couldn't really help, even though I'm like, it's my tips, man. Like, come on.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

So I have learned both a lot of things that have take with me and things because I so it does we we talk about like um, you know, now we see this openness and community in bartender. Um, I I think in my experience is that uh I don't know, like 20 years ago when I started working in in this industry, I would see like bartenders were like, you know, like lions taking uh taking care of the body. Nobody can touch anything, nobody can try anything.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

And it was kind of weird because he was like, How am I gonna know how to, you know, sell that I don't know, like a or or if you have a question back then, like you know, you you were like, Oh, where's this Marocomie report?

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Or you know, like when you'd have to ask permission, you're at a table and somebody wants something, and you're like, I have to go ask the bartender, and now I have to come back. Like that agency of just like having the information, being able to make a call, like it makes sense from so many angles, but I've definitely worked in situations where that wasn't the case.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Yeah, and and a lot of the times honestly that happened. Uh because like you like she said, you know, we were kind of like guarding people with kind of guarding their their their information. But at the end of the day, it's tips, right? Everyone's tip because if they make money, that means the house makes money, that means everyone makes money. Ultimately, that's the goal, right? Uh so everyone can make money. If the if you're making money uh as an employee, as a bartender server or a busboy, uh the house makes money, of course. Yeah. And I th I think that's the goal. But I think when you're like guarding something and you're letting, you know, go past this.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Uh yeah, you're kind of protecting your station or your job in the short term, but you're not like it's not for the health of everybody. Exactly. My first bartending job that I got in New Haven, I did get because I had started making my own drinks because I was working with a bartender that was pretty slow for a Friday. And I was like, you know, I have to make money on the floor. And one day he didn't show up. And I was like, I can do it. And I have to give credit to my manager, Paul, was like, she's already making her own drinks. So they were like, okay, you get a chance. Let's see.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Uh but also I feel like in the past, I I never got the the um that chance of working with like sections where like this is your section and these are your tips. So there were like places that it wasn't a pool. It is. So everyone, yeah. Because you know, like I've I've also had like the opportunity to see other works uh workers that they said, you know, because I'm new, they're giving me the worst section, the slowest. Um, and then definitely it was like the bartender's getting more tips than everybody else. Yes, and no one will help you because it doesn't benefit them at all. Yeah, not even as a human. Or or like don't talk to that's fine, don't go to my tables. And it was kind of like weird. But I feel like also we are um we saw that part of like we we want to talk about this like the male-dominated industry. So what were the challenges that you face?

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Well, I think I saw it from different angles because my first bartending job in New Haven, the uh main owner was a woman, Susie Harker. And she was great. She had great energy. It was very like she was super kind and like empathetic to like because it was all students and people at different things. But you know, you had to do your shift. She put people on the shifts they really deserved that they could keep up with. And I worked there all through college because uh she would adjust with my schedule, but also like I showed up for her. Um, so I think that was a really good example. And when you work in sports bars and Irish bars, it's pretty even. Like it wasn't until really the craft cocktail side of things where especially in the late 2000s, there was like this look that people expected. And there was like a few well-known people, and that was kind of it. So it was kind of funny to have it uh like think about it again ten years later, that like, oh, you're only choosing these four people all the time for everything. Or or just what people expected, even because people will talk about it now that there's enough distance that like, yeah, we hired him because he looked the part. Or brands will say, like, we this is just what we thought we had to do, this is what everyone was asking for. And then, you know, you realize not everybody has the skills because they have the look, or there's other people with lots of skills that don't have that look.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

Exactly. I think that's um, I'm I'm so happy that you say that.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

People were not there for it. It was like the mustache bartender, like the arm guarders being very serious about cocktails. And there was a point that we were really trying to separate what we were doing from it was kind of like nightclub or Irish bar. Like that kind of felt like my only experience is in New York, but there wasn't a more formal element of cocktails, and there was definitely a different energy from guests that were like, once you're in a bar, we do what we want. We invite as many people as we want, we yell at you, we do this, and like especially from that, I've come from that like Sasha Petrosky school of things. Like there's also a balance of like we're all in the same room together. We're all here for an experience. It's never about one person. You're gonna talk to people with respect. So there was a lot going on to try to like separate what we were doing, but it did come with its own like kind of stereotypes of who could do what and who was the person to ask, you know, because plenty of people would be like, Can I talk to the bartender? and it's me.

unknown 18:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

The one standing behind the bar. Yeah. Which is we're like, yeah. I'm behind the bar. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:31

And like, hello. I've been shaking cocktails for the last 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

But now it's time for you to make a decision and you're worried about it.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Um did you did you have the chance to meet uh Sasha?

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Yeah. Um, so when we opened Rain's Law Room, I again like got the job from an open call. I just really wanted to work at a cocktail bar. Uh I could tell from the description that it was gonna be cocktail focused, but it was still under construction. Like it was hard to tell exactly what was happening. But Michael, or Mickey, as most people call him from Milk and Honey at the time, was like our consultant. So he did the first menu and he trained us like very much in that school. And every Sunday when I got out of work, I sat at Milk and Honey at the bar and I tried drinks I hadn't had, and I just watched the that um, you know, always doing the same thing over and over, but as well. And that's something we talk about a lot, is like six o'clock has to be as good as eleven o'clock. You always pull the coldest glass, you always look at the wash line, you always try to build the round as tight as possible. But it's different to see it in person versus read it or hear it. Um and I got to meet Sasha at Milk and Honey, he came in the rains and things like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Because uh now you mentioned that the the continuity or the you know, like um we have to be six or eleven the same drinks. I feel like um and also having that experience of like going to a cocked up place that you feel like welcome and everything. I feel like nowadays um it's a little hard because I feel like for example, in your case, right? Like uh back in the day I feel also it was kind of easy to get a job in terms of like uh we see potential, you can be trained, we trust uh, you know, the the your resume and everything. And they will give you the opportunity. But I feel like nowadays it's a little different in terms of like you have to make, I don't know, like so many drinks, and uh it's about like mechanical things instead of like personality as well.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

That it it's sometimes I think I think it it's also oh to your point, you know, because when you say uh the training, um it was a very different when the when when the cocktail boom started all over again in late 2000s. As of now, we have uh cocktails with a little more ingredients and also bartenders, if you want a bartender, you have to know a little bit more, have a little bit more information. Because you know, you have to know at least your classics and then know everything else. Or at least bar back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

And yes and no, because post-pandemic it was very hard to hire people again, or it just felt like there was never enough people. But also there I felt like at least there was a big chunk of like classic knowledge that kind of got lost because either people weren't doing it. In certain bars, it's not as much of the kind of baseline that you start with, because now there's bars that are very particular, like they're into kind of one thing, or it's very culinary, or it's all about one spirit, which it can be great, but yeah, you don't find at least I haven't found that everyone has that same like benchmark knowledge all the time anymore after the pandemic, and now it's kind of coming back again, which like if you stay in one place long enough, it all comes back around.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Um but also I have to say, I started bartending like before Instagram and like before people took pictures of things. And because we didn't we were just learning a lot more in real life, and to be a really good bartender, you have to be social, at least in that setting, because I can be a Quiet person or a shy person, but like you know how you feel more comfortable with that, like you know, 24 inches of marble, you can be like a different person. But when you've kind of just looked at it on the internet a lot, or you know, everyone had a different experience during the pandemic, it's harder for some people to like you really you're hosting, no matter what your role is. If you have a front of house role, like you're hosting people's experience, and that has been a little bit lost, I think, as well too.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Yeah, I I it happens to me once uh in the past um um Brooklyn convention. We went to this bar, it's kind of famous, and um and the drinks are like very it has like a dye bar feel, but also it's like very crafty in in cocktails. But then the bartender was like, Um, what do you want? Okay, we want this. And then um we want some water, and they have also a water station, but he wasn't even busy, so we were drinking a lot of water, and then the person I was next to, she asked again for water, and he was like, Well, if you need water, just go to the station. And it was like, Oh my god. Yeah, you know, it was kind of like that, uh, like you said, missing of like hosting, because I feel like everybody is the same, right? There's also a lot of good drinks these days.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

So if the whole experience isn't great or welcoming, you might choose it once, but would you choose it again?

SPEAKER_03 23:25

Yeah. That's how I feel. Yeah, um, I mean, you you mentioned four four bartenders, so you know they wear more now. But right now, if you go around the city, there's a lot of places that you can go and choose from, you know? Like just you mentioned also earlier, like if you want to go to a Japanese restaurant or a Japanese uh cocktail bar, uh you could just because they have that kind of technique and and the cocktails are very different from an American bar. And I mean, there's so many places too you can choose from, and you can just have a map in the Lower East Side, or Midtown, or even uh uh Perla Negra, Uptown. And you know, like you might we'll just talk about it every. Uh it just like depends where you want to go, whether you like to drink, whether you like to explore. And you want to leave the city or stay in the city, but explore Japan per se, right? Yeah. Or or you know, uh Perla Negra, because they have really good cocktails up to uh up there too. Um but yeah, I mean I think with bartending uh nowadays, uh it's important to recognize also people who's doing uh events and people who's putting their faces in competitions, you know? Like uh the speed rack we talked about it the other day. Yeah it's great because I see this uh community and and I mentioned speed rack because uh celebrating uh month uh of women and compliments achievements. And you know, one of the achievements I think and in Speed Rack, and I'm gonna say for the participants, uh people who take part of the competition. Uh even if you don't make the stage, I think uh it's important to recognize them too, because you know, it takes a lot of gods for you.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

They're doing something most people will not do.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

It takes a lot of gods to either out of fear or the skills or the combination of both.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

Yeah, and and I actually want to applaud them because you know, like seeing them compete is it's it's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

It's so electric.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

It's electric, but it's also like great, you know. It's so good to see, like especially when you see a teammate, like somebody who works with you, who helps work with you, like I see the potential of that person that wanted to be there. Yeah. But it's not up to you to be, you know, for them to make it. They have to make the decision ultimately, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

I just like to drop it in the chats all the time. See Iraq is open.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

And I feel like it was very nice that Ivey and uh Ivy and Lynnette, they thought about you know doing this, but also helping other women that are suffering from cancer and trying to, you know, put uh aside the like the show business to like something very important with the women we faced, which is help. And sometimes working in this industry also we don't have uh some benefits, which also changed during the time because back in the day there was like no many laws that protect us. But I feel like um nowadays we have more opportunities as women. So I I guess that you also had like some challenges when you started. Can you mention something?

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Um I think I had I mean I had challenges in just um something that you learned on the highway.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Well, I learned I learned a lot about who I wanted to be if I ever had a little bit of sway or was, you know, because I was a server and a bartender and then I was a head bartender when I mean up until 2020, I was still bartending a lot of shifts while we were opening the other bars. So my role has like changed a lot over the years. But you know, I did go from like a peer to like kind of managing or at least overseeing things and then to more direct role to being a partner where you think a lot more about the business as a whole. But I did think a lot about like what didn't work for me as I was like moving along, which was like I was a quieter person, like I am, and I got interrupted a lot, I got spoken over a lot, not just in hospitality, but like I worked in music and media with like huge personalities. And like I come from a family that's like put your head down and do the work, which has gotten me a lot of places, but not everyone will notice. So I ne I always wanted to be creative in like how I connect with people on my team because I don't want to be a place where only the loudest voice gets heard because that didn't work for me when I was not the loudest person. So I try to be around like a lot during pre-shift, a lot on the slower nights, just really like available to people so they find their own way of connecting. Or like me kind of connecting with them if like I see potential, I see an idea. It means the most to me that people come to me, not always like with good news or not what's going well, but when they need help and when something's not wrong or something's not going right. Um, because that means like, oh, okay, the door is really open.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

Yeah, I think that gives you the open door um policy. Yeah you know, and also that the other I think has a a lot to do with, you know, your personality, because you mentioned you're quiet, but like we see that you're super friendly and I'm going, and every time we see you, like, you know, it's easy to talk to. You know? Uh I guess when you're a boss, people sometimes see you as like, oh, it's they're so serious, and you know, yeah, we shouldn't approach them. But uh we always say that build up build the courage is one thing. But also if you don't ask, you're not gonna know, right? Uh whatever kind of question it is, uh you how are you gonna get an answer if you don't ask or approach.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Yeah. And like I said, like I think about who I would have wanted around at a certain point in my career. And I know what having a creative outlet, having stable employment, and like the kind of extra bandwidth that gives you to like, I call it room to bloom, but I'm like, you know, you get to like become who you're meant to be. So I try to give that like stable ground to people to like yes, become great at your job, but also like I meet people at like certain times in their life, like become the person you're meant to be. Hopefully it's here, it might not always be, but I think like I love to see it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

And I and also we spend a lot of time with these people, right? Yeah, yeah. Because if within the team, I think most of the time, if you say you spend 40 hours there, it's not true. It's a little bit more because if you multiply people's hours there, it's more than that. Uh and you talk to like at least seven to eight people minimum per day, right? Uh imagine that how many people talk to you? That person talked to you once, but you talk to eight other people. Yeah. So in reality, your brain is always thinking about like hope, pre different personalities, kind of like helping each other and connecting, like you say, the team, right? Because it's it's a bit hard to connect the team when you it's one person. Um and uh I think when you build that community and and have that open policy, uh and it's also very much a two-way street.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Like I've been on a lot of panels about kind of mentorship and leadership, but it's not me training 50 Megans. It's like what everybody gives back to me. Because I have a lot to offer and I have like my lens that I've learned to like kind of see the world through and build the bars through. But if you think about I have like enough energy and ideas for five bars, I hate to spoil it, but I don't. And it's like Benzi and Cisco and Rolando and Kelsey, like, yes, they're learning, but like they've been around so long that now they have something to give back. Like they have their own perspective on Deer Irving, they have their own perspective on Marine Saw Room. They're so proud of like what we built that like they're taking it on too. And I think it's like this kind of building of like, yes, I had some good ideas. Some of them are 10 years old now, so like, where are we in 2025, 2026 to like keep these bars open and interesting? Like it's definitely a two-way street.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

I mean, now you talk about people, like we have some uh guests here today where you're alumni. My alumni, yeah. And I feel like you know that um seeing these uh bartenders like Fabi or like um, you know, like Ben, they they have their own personality as well. But I feel like having you as a leader, as a role model, that you have this background of like how we wanna have a bar that hosts a very good experience for everyone, not just for one your regular as well, but yeah, for everyone who comes. Uh I think that's what makes uh many bars in New York like be alone.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Yeah. I mean we talk about legacy a lot, especially like Rains turned 15 a couple years ago. And that was like such an accomplishment, but also like we got to just reflect on like where we've been, and it's a big mix of like the regulars and the staff, and like how many people have come through over the years, and like how many people remember like coming to New York for the first time and coming there and how it got them into cocktails. So it's just it's very rewarding like to hear that and know that, but it's also like a push um to keep it going and to like now. I'm much more comfortable saying to people like this is what I see, you might not see it yet, but I do. So like let's get there. And something I saw a lot in like earlier times of my career is that the like the work ethic of Latin people is very celebrated and admired, and it is not that often promoted. And when I was looking, like things would open up. What means so much more to me is like you've you know the place, you love service because really what we do is we work service. We get to do a lot of cool things, go to things, host things, travel. But like what keeps us in this business is service every night.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

And like when people know it in and out, okay, let's talk about the stuff that you're less comfortable with. But I don't like always looking outside for a fix. I know that there's people in here that love it and that want to do it.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

So, for example, I I I think we were talking about um what happened with uh your your place the past week.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

That they have a fire in the world. Uh which is extremely sad, but everyone is safe. Um hopefully the closure will not be that long. There's a lot to be determined on this day and time, but um yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

No, I I I mention, I mean, you were mentioning about like you looking for places that they can, you know, give a couple of shifts for the people that are not working right now. And it makes me think about how's your um perception of like having a team and having a person that let's say doesn't have a lot of flexibility with time, uh, because you know, we have we're humans, right? And we have sometimes personal life that uh situations that uh uh prevent us from having a full-time job. And uh are you able to hire someone that says, you know, I wouldn't be a barback or I want to be a bartender, but I can only give you two days. Will you hire someone like that?

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Yeah, I mean, for us, we've like definitely adjusted over the years because it's very true that not everyone can work full-time. A lot of people have a couple jobs now. When I kind of started, especially in cocktail bars, it seemed like everybody worked five shifts. Somehow everybody was off Sunday and Monday, but the bars were still open. But you know, it was it was a little more um everyone did this one thing. And now there's a lot of I think people doing other jobs, but also people do use hospitality when they're working on other things or in between things. And that still adds a lot to the culture of the bars that makes it more interesting, I think. I just try to be very clear with people about the expectations. Everybody has to work at least two days because just one day a week starting over all the time, that doesn't work for us, I have learned. For the most part, four to four shifts is full time for us because you'll get about 40 hours or so. Um you'll also be like fresh and kind and fun.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Those shifts, you know, I can't tell you what to do on your days off, but that's how we think about it. I just try to be extremely clear with people about like what the times are, what the schedule is, these are the expectations. We are gonna hold you accountable for them. But otherwise, yeah, people are living a lot of different lives here.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

Yeah, people have other things to do and and other jobs. And when you when you mentioned a 40-day, 40 hours, uh I feel like when you work more than that at a place, sometimes you need to, you know, relax and decompress and sometimes because if you work late night, especially as a banner, yeah. If you work up until like 2 a.m. every single night, it's it's hard. It takes a toll on your body. So you basically need either a day job uh and then two nights or four nights, you know, because uh especially if you have family, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

And being fair about like who's opening, who's closing, not people we call them clop-ins, but like you don't close and then open. You know, every once in a while there's emergencies. Thank you so much. I also talk to people a lot about like you can't lose perspective about being a guest. Because you know how it is when you like haven't even seen the outside world.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

And but you're saying the same thing 100, 200 times a night. People are spending their hard-earned funds with you, they're counting on you for big nights. Like we've all seen it, and we've probably all been there that you're you know, you're phoning it in, you're really tired, this is annoying, but you still have to like get outside and do things. And it doesn't have to be cocktails all the time, but like there's so much hospitality.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

Yeah, any any activities.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

To get a coffee, go see your barber, go to a museum, and like you need that perspective, I think.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

Yeah. We need to, we need to have uh I mean, a lot of uh bartenders have all the, you know. I mean, I've seen people doing like boxing and running and you know, activities that they don't r necessarily require, you know, you know, going into like having dinner or you know, yeah. Drinks. Uh but also the the it's kind of the compressing, you know. I've seen like uh she mentioned Ivy Mix actually running the marathon. I was like, what?

SPEAKER_01 37:05

Yeah. I know I'm always amazed. We have a coworker at Dear Vienna Hudson that I think has done the marathon nine times. Well, I'm always like, you're on your feet all night and then you choose to run 27 miles.

SPEAKER_03 37:16

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

Especially if you work that same night, right? Yeah. Because you're like, you work Saturday night and then you go around a marathon, like no one is business, and then you said, Yeah, like, yeah, yeah, I'm I'm on Monday, Tuesday. I'll recover by Wednesday. Yeah. Then you go back and do it all over again. And to me, that I mean, not not me, but like I've seen Julio also, one of my very good friends, uh, his uh partner, uh the Lions and some arcs and first. And like seeing them run, like, you know, all the activities outside from like bartending basically. Uh it's also like it frees your mind, you know. Yeah and I think I mean I'm I'm using that as an example, but there's so many other examples that we can use, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:54

But I I I feel like, you know, like lately uh we talk about we try to also still talking about like women in this industry and like the places that now we have more uh more places, right? And I feel like now the narrative could be more of like um integration of like men and women but also like ethnicities because I feel like now you go to to bars and you can see more like for example like Mexican bartenders or like Latino bartenders that we used to don't say that like 20 years ago, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:29

And I think some of that comes from like having those voices in the room. I can't tell you like how much advice that I've given about just little things like you need a hook in the bathroom because like we're gonna put our bag up and we need a mirror for our lipstick, and like sometimes that's like little and silly, but no, it does make people feel more comfortable in the space. Or when we're talking about uniforms, like how many interviews I went on that were like heels for her and Nikes for him, and you're like, and I'm supposed to be nice to people for 12 hours, like but then there's even bigger things when you start to like get into um like more HR things, I think, for the company, but like now we're trying to like things are much more structured than probably they were, you know, 10 or 15 years ago, and thinking about yeah, how do we include everybody? How are we thinking about everybody? But that perspective doesn't exist if you don't have some of those people to offer their opinion about like this is what I need, this is how this feels to me. If it's the same people making all the decisions, they only see it from their point of view.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Yeah, and and and for me, honestly, that uh one of the best um examples and I admire about you is that you are very inclusive. I've been in a couple of events that you host at uh their evening, and um, you know, you open the doors for women, but also like you try to integrate uh men in that conversation. And also seeing you that uh you promote like a lot of like Latinos. No, we have Ben, we have Elaine working with you, and and you give them the opportunity because you see that like you said, they have voice, they have the the the skills and everything. I feel like that's very empowering because people see you as a role model, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:17

And maybe it goes back to being a twin. Like I've always shared, like it's never ever been all about me. But I also like I don't think that I know everything. I don't think all my drinks are the best. I don't think all the service should be the way I think it should be. Um I don't want this to sound like more self-deprecating than it is, but like I don't think I'm that special. I think I'm good at what I do. I have tried very hard, but I also know that what I have done is very possible for a lot of people. If they have the right avenue, if they have the steady ground to try, if they feel like they won't get fired for every mistake or they can like bring ideas to the table. Because again, like not only is it the right thing to do, um especially with everything that's kind of going on, but like we have global clientele, right? We have spirits and ingredients from all over the world now available to us. We have all kinds of different personalities that like only help us do better the more people like that feel comfortable in our space. But that comes from people feeling comfortable in the space. And I remember having this like kind of moment at Rain's Law Room because it meant so much to me. Like this was the job I wanted. I helped I felt like confident that I was a part of making this bar work, but it was also that like creative outlet, that like agency I finally had over my life that made me like a steadier person, the person I was meant to be. This bar meant a lot to me. It meant a lot to the people that were coming in. It could mean a lot to everyone else that works here if you focus on that kind of a culture. And that's what I've tried to do.

SPEAKER_03 41:55

Yeah, and then I think that's um that's pretty cool, honestly. Because uh, like you mentioned, you know, you have sprays from all over the world, people from different backgrounds. And I I guess that's that also builds this kind of like different sauce, right? Because it's like everyone has something to taste.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

And like the drinks, when every like the drinks are very collaborative at this point. Like the menu, everybody works on it. And like every time like writing on a recipe, I'm like, it's Elaine and Cisco, you know, it's Ben Z and Meek, because everybody like kind of throws their opinion in it. And it is a place where like we talk pretty honestly about like, I wouldn't drink that whole drink. I don't because it's also expensive now, right? Like it really has to feel worth it. We have to like go through of like, is this a deriving drink? Is this a ranged drink? And it's a very open conversation, but it's pretty honest. Um, and everybody kind of ends up working together to be like, what does it need? Like, what's that extra little and it kind of bleeds into service that like you know, there's two bartenders working together, they're their own little team. Like when Robin and Cisco work on Friday and Saturday night, it's like stop it, I would pay double to be here.

SPEAKER_03 42:59

They have they they put up a show basically. And and and you know what's funny because when when moving to the Brandon's Law, uh the town little bar, and every time we like, we enjoy standing there and having the drinks. Yeah. And maybe like a chat with the guys, you know, going to the you know, if we have to go into the phone.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

And that also takes them hosting you as much as like, yes, we're making drinks and we're focused on it, but um, you know, going back to that kind of idea of service is like you're we're really here to engage people and build regulars, and that's a lot of it.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

And you really see that they're having fun. Yeah. And like making it seem like they're just there. But but they're basically making like probably building five different cocktails at the same time while talking to you, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Like, I just did a few like Friday, Saturday managerships, and at the end of the night we're like, Whoo, look at this.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

Yeah. And that's impressive. But that's also really good, right? Because it's comfortable. Yeah. You feel comfortable with the place you are, you're happy, you know. So basically the your time that you're there, you enjoy it. And it's more Productive. Because you know, yeah, you're happy you make 20 cocktails. Yeah. And once you start like tensing up and then break your glass, you know, everything goes wrong. That's what I always say.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

The spiral starts soon. Exactly. But also if you're working in a place where it's scarier, like you start hiding your mistakes, and you're kind of like, can you give me that drink really fast?

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Um but like we're all just kind of like, we're on the same team, we're here to do it together. Um yes, there's consequences if you really mess up, but like we've all been there, right? We've all dropped a class. Like, let's keep it moving.

SPEAKER_03 44:32

Exactly. Things break. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

I feel like things like you forget tickets, like, let's just fix it.

SPEAKER_03 44:37

Let's fix it. Yeah, it's easier to fix it, to get it rolling. Yeah than to stop and and spend 20 minutes uh trying to solve. No, no, just get it done, move on, and then we'll talk about it. I think that's the best uh uh option that I always see. Yeah. Because it's more helpful to keep moving. Cause it's like a chain reaction. I always call it a chain reaction. You stop, you're not stopping you, you stop an entire team.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

And and I think that's a very good um topic of like some people still don't learn that if you're a manager, you cannot go and get mad at the person who made a mistake during service. Yeah. Because it's another chain reaction of like putting the the the employee nervous or you know, like fearful, and then you can create more uh, you know, mistakes. And I feel like your um philosophy of like, let's fix it, move on, and then we'll talk. Yeah. It's how it should be.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

And I talk to people a lot about patterns, like both good and bad, but everybody has an off night, like everybody makes a mistake. Does it happen a lot? Okay, now we need to address it. But also like every Thursday, do we run out of something and it's a stress point? Every Thursday, well, okay, let's fix that. Do we need the host to come in a half an hour earlier because there's too many people, like, you know, once it gets nice out at five o'clock, it's too busy. What's most important? Protect the bubble, give people good service. Okay, let's talk about it, let's adjust the schedule. Um, you know, always praising people for what goes well. Like when we get good reviews or good feedback, like it's in the chat. Like, because part of what people love about working service is like you kind of always know how you're doing, right? Like you're getting good feedback, you know when you failed, when that joke was flat, when you were too slow, you know that as well. But and you can kind of like come back. But you know, everybody wants to hear when things are going well or what means something to people because when like we have staff meetings or when we're doing RD, like everybody's invited because everybody has something to say. The host at the door knows what people are saying at the door. They know what they're saying on their way out. They know if they're saying they're gonna come back or if they're not, or like what drink they can't stop thinking about. The barback knows what he's always picking up that much left of that people are not finishing, that people are returning. Um, you know, everybody has something to offer.

SPEAKER_03 46:52

Yeah, and I think that uh we don't really pay much attention to that, honestly, because like you mentioned, the barback picks up the left uh if they didn't finish the entire drink, um, we might have to adjust something, right? Like those little details that uh our guests don't see but us as professionals or industry professionals as we call because we are here every single day. We we see those tiny little details and they're important to improve.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

And it's not the POS is not gonna tell you your rese rundown is not gonna tell you that. Like you have to rely on like keeping the conversation open with everybody about like how's it really going out there?

SPEAKER_03 47:25

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

And um I have this kind of like cliche or like silly question, but it's not silly. Um you working in this industry for a long time and you know, coming from marketing and and deciding to stay in the industry. If you have to define it, how do you how does it feel to be a bartender?

SPEAKER_01 47:45

Ooh, it feels like um I always love the kind of like the puppeteer aspect of it of like I'm just quietly in control of like how all these nights are going. And I love eavesdropping on situations and then like kind of coming in as the hero of like, were you looking for late-night pizza? Oh, well, I know. Or like you see people like fumbling on a first date, kind of, and I'll just like insert myself. I don't know where it's gonna go, but like you know, you really learn to read the room, and like so much of service is the nuance of things. And every table is different. Yes, people are gonna sit at table five four different times tonight, but each one is different, right? Like, let's approach it differently. Like, what's try to see what they're after? And I like that it's you never get to the end. Like you're never the best bartender, the greatest bartender. Like you can always be a little bit better.

SPEAKER_03 48:37

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

So I'm I like the journey of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

Yeah, that's what I will say. Like, never stop learning. Yeah. I feel like um a lot of bartenders I've seen, and they're great, I love them. And they'll the the best advice that I've heard ever from all of them, never stop learning. Yeah. Learn as much as you can, absorb, be a sponge. And um, I'm gonna quote uh uh Bruce Lee, be like be like water, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 49:00

Yeah, you have to kill it. You have to be like water. I learned that very early that because I remember like the first kind of time we had like kind of a staff change at Rain's Law Room. And it wasn't, you know, for any bad reason, but like people move, people, you know, even move to like a different borough, and like it doesn't work. And like there were some regulars that were like, Oh, I just, you know, remember when and I was kind of getting that feeling of like, oh, it used to be like this. It's not gonna be again, so we could like talk about it for hours or we could, you know, meet the new people. They're great. You know.

SPEAKER_02 49:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

But like you'll you can't get too stuck on that for sure.

SPEAKER_00 49:38

And uh, you know, I I guess that you working in this bartending industry, you were uh able to create a lot of uh drinks. But I there is one that it uh caught my attention that you created. It was uh for your partner, you called Frank of America.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Oh yes. Um yes, I used to date someone that worked at Bank of America. Um and I just thought it was hilarious to call it Frank of America, but like it was very thoughtful, like it was a Manhattan riff, just like he liked, but like with um a spiced maple syrup, because we're from the Northeast. Like it was like layers. Um I think about things way too much. Like it was like a lot of layers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:21

I think those are the best cutels sometimes because you get different uh nuances.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Yeah. Yeah. And we like we talk about that both with the names. Like I I always like a name that is like a rabbit hole of something. Like I think about drinks like perfume a lot, like it needs those like light, bright things, it needs the grounding notes because it is like you want to sit with it, you want to enjoy it, but you really hope, I hope, that you think about it later.

SPEAKER_03 50:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

You know. And uh do you ever create something for your twin sister? For my twin, I have to say during the pandemic, I made her every margarita variation like under the sun. Oh, wow. Like on Fridays, it was like classic. Uh blender strawberry margaritas. Um watermelon is in season right now. Like it was just kind of like everything we could think of. But it was like, you know, it was like one thing we did together. Like sh you know, she worked a lot because she worked for the state. So um she was still working much more than I was at the time. So it was like kind of like our Friday ritual. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:22

Yeah, but that's pretty cool. Uh I think it important uh enjoying time with the siblings is really important, especially if you have the one that looks just exactly like you.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

We look we look related. Luckily, I will say being a twin is intense enough. I'm glad we don't look like exactly the same.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

So, why are the things that you do outside of work?

SPEAKER_01 51:41

Like yeah, you're well, I have coined what I call the cool aunt club because I'm the cool aunt. So I try to do like a lot of activities with my nieces and nephews. Some of them are closer than others, but um that's very important to me. Um I do Pilates, which has helped me be a more resilient bartender and person that stands on their feet all the time.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

Um and I will say, other than cocktails, I spend most of my money on like shows and concerts. Cool.

SPEAKER_03 52:08

Oh I think I think Nuri if you that she loves concerts.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Don't chat me with a pre-sale.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

Well, uh me, it's very tough to uh pay for a concert here in in the city uh these late days because it's they sold out so fast. Yeah. And then you went and get them and it's like triple or something. But I love to go to festivals.

SPEAKER_01 52:31

Yeah. And I I do love the like um I love vinyl bars and like how listening rooms are a thing because you can listen to great music, great sound for not nearly as much money. Um I do love places that have DJs on certain nights that like it doesn't even have to be like a club vibe, but it's just you know, it's a little something like you were talking about earlier, DJ can really like read the room very hospitality but different about like where are we all going? How are we feeling?

SPEAKER_03 52:56

At least you're gonna you stamp over your shoulders.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

Feeling the and then they're like, okay, I got a pizza fan over here. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 53:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

So what would be like uh like you have like a favorite like uh music or like band? No.

SPEAKER_01 53:11

No, I could uh do everything. Yeah, I've probably gone all over the place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

Like like what would be your like go to like drink or cocktail?

SPEAKER_01 53:22

Oh, everybody knows I'm a champagne girl because I like to have a little bubbles while I'm thinking about what I'm actually gonna have. I really love to like try like I mean I love to drink off people's menus. Like it's funny because we get asked a lot of questions about like what's good or like what's not here. Like, we worked so hard on that menu, actually. So I love to like I love to really like see what people are doing. I love to not make decisions, so I'm always like, I've talked to so many people today. What do you love that you make here? I don't love absinthe and I don't want anything creamy. Otherwise, go. You know, like I love to see people's kind of perspective and take on things.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Yeah, and every ballot's different. Like we mentioned earlier, every cocktail bar, uh even if you're uh whatever kind of bar you you use what cocktails yourself make per se, you know? Yeah. And every every bartender, if the bartender created a program, sometimes it's based on on a palette. Yeah. Or the bartender, you know? Yeah. And oftentimes we don't really think about it outside. But it's good that you like when you see an ingredient that you haven't tried, uh, taste it. Yeah. Or a cocktail that, oh, what is that?

SPEAKER_01 54:26

And I really like our people like we all love what we do. So I'm like very happy to ask a question and be like, if you are getting this or this, they definitely have an opinion. And like, yes, it's gonna be hopefully framed towards like your your feelings, but um like I love when people are like this if you want something more spirit forward, this is like more spicier than it reads, so just be careful. Okay, that's the information I need. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 54:53

Do you have like a preferred like neighborhood to go up Baracto in the city?

SPEAKER_01 54:58

I don't have a preferred um neighborhood, but I will say I have a rule about like either usually it's a Sunday, but kind of depends on what a day off is. Like I'll have a rule about not getting on the train. Okay. So I'll only go to places that that I can walk. Sometimes it's kind of far if it's nice out, but like I do try to be like because it's so easy. I work in Manhattan to like only kind of stay around there, but like there's so much good, and I'm like an independent bars and restaurants person. So I'm like, I want to see what you're doing. I'm very thoughtful about like where I spend my money for sure. So I'm like, I'm gonna walk here and I'm gonna c get a coffee on the way, and by that time I'll be hungry, and then I'll want to drink. So I find your day. Yes, okay. Or sometimes like when it's nice in New York, you know, it's like a beautiful feeling. You just like I might walk to Harlem. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 55:47

I know that's good.

SPEAKER_00 55:48

And and like now that you're not bartending, but you are like also a partner. How is that transition of like being a partner and then I mean sorry, a bartender and then being a partner?

SPEAKER_01 55:59

Well, again, like I have the voice of like, this is what works for us, this is what we need. Always bringing it back to the point of like, yes, there's a lot of other things going on in in a bar or restaurant to think about, but we make our money from selling drinks. So like ev everything here has to work. That's where we need some of the investment sometimes. Um, and our events director, who's a good friend of mine, like she also started with me in the beginning of Rains. So it's like just to have that knowledge of like, this is what we do well, this is what we can handle, like it's very important to bring to people that like don't have that experience. And it's it's very honest. It's like we can try. And we do like we've definitely increased our events business, but we're pretty honest about like this is what we can do, this is like not the venue for that. And now we have five, so it's very flexible. But um, I think you know, when you can stay grounded in I've been a host, I've been a server, busser, bartender. I I have a lot of compassion for all those roles and what they need. So that is like where I start the process and build from there. And like when people are coming at it from another angle, like I'm very comfortable like advocating for like, okay, but this is what that means to us. This is what we need to execute that.

SPEAKER_03 57:13

Yeah. So we can understand the entire structure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

And then on the other side, you can explain to people like profit actually means there being money left over after all of this. Which like to have a busy shift can be totally different from being a profitable place. And that's sometimes what matters in like just the waste that happens with things, being careful with like our tools, and did we need 20 napkins for that or five, or like you know, just little things we can do better that all it actually at the end of the day impacts our business.

SPEAKER_02 57:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:46

Um, I always tell people like every August the AC breaks down. It's also slow. Like we need that, the money that we made over the winter. Yeah, to to be there. So I think it's like having the perspective of both sides. So if you had to tell your young self an advice, yeah, what would it be? Um I would say don't be afraid of a slow burn because I used to think like I don't even know what age. When you're 25, when you're 30, whatever, like you've found your your thing or your lane. And like mine has changed so many times. And in cocktails and like how the cocktail thing has like taken off over the years. Sometimes it can feel like, oh, am I getting left behind? Does anybody care? But also sometimes you need a little break to like creatively reset. So I would say, you know, don't be afraid of like a steady pace versus like fasting furies.

SPEAKER_03 58:43

Yeah. I feel like sometimes we hold back as younger, uh, you know, when we're young. Because we are afraid of doing things. But just um just do it. You know, like I I guess like uh the perfect example is seeing somebody like you. Uh if if somebody's watching this, like take that in as a perspective and say, hey, if if you want to be in this position, uh the things that you have been doing, they can probably relate and and work on it and like take the chances, you know. Like she I I I she mentioned challenges, but I think uh changing that uh into uh instead of saying challenges, saying opportunities, you know? Yeah. Because I think it's important to say opportunities. This is not my challenge, yes, my challenge because it's something that it's I guess, but I'm gonna overcome it. So it's my opportunity. I'm gonna create this opportunity for myself, you know?

SPEAKER_01 59:33

Yeah, and some of those like challenging spaces we don't have total control over. Sometimes it's kind of a little more on us or the situation that we're in. But I've taken so much of what gone has gone right and what's gone wrong. So if you are in a space that doesn't feel great or feels challenging, okay, just know you don't want to be back here again. So what are we doing next? How am I meeting the next opportunity that like I won't feel like this again?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:02

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

And uh, you know, like as a as a woman, as a as a boss, as a as a friend, how's your relationship with other also women that are like now boss, like you know, Lynette and you know how's it?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

I know Lynette told you about the cuff and chat because of course I listen to my friends' podcasts. Um so I think it's really important to have people in your life that will give you honest advice because we love to celebrate each other. Um, especially like women can be very like, go, girl, go. You're like, yeah, girl, I'm not doing that well. Like I'm struggling. Or like when you're really good friends with someone, you you kind of know their patterns and what might get like maybe they're not seeing something as clearly as you could kind of say, okay, but this is this is how I see it. This is maybe how you could get through. I think, you know, having that circle of people that yes, they're supporting you, but not falsely. Like they're giving you honest advice. They're also sometimes just taking your mind off something because sometimes we all just need to vent. Like being in New York, like I've been on so many wild subway situations recently, which no one can fix for me. But you know, let me vent about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:18

Um, so yeah, there's also that too of just like having the outlet that is not related to your job because don't vent to the people that you work with, but like have a separate outlet of like Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:30

You need that, you need that time also. You need to let yours express yourself and say the things that you go through in life, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:36

And then people will say things that totally surprise you that does change your like, oh, yeah, I'll just do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

I have so many smart people in my life. And as I think everybody also says the same to you. Like uh you are like very approachable. I will say that in the beginning when I met you, and because you said like you're kind of serious or shy, I thought you were like, Oh, I d maybe she's uh very like I cannot approach her, but it's it's completely the opposite. You're super approachable, and I feel like your energy that uh walks around is like that sense of like we work in this industry to to do it better.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:16

Yeah, yeah, and showing you to to help each other to uplift each other, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

It's not about just you know what else I say? I always say, I'm not quiet, I'm listening. Yes. You know, and that has given me a lot of information.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:30

And then like, you know, you have now uh five places. Um what do you see about or what you can say about the non-alcoholic uh situation that many people feel like, oh, it's because Gen Z doesn't drink or because he's a trainer, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:44

Yeah, I I'm I don't think it's because Gen Z doesn't drink. Um I do think a lot of it is again like just hospitality, hosting, wanting to feel inclusive for everybody, for everyone to have that same experience, right? That because I remember like kind of a shift that a lot of us had that we used to make non-alcoholic drinks more like by request, but that also meant someone saying, I don't drink, or I'm not drinking right now. And that could open the door to like just intrusive questions. Some people are in a social setting, sometimes it's work, and like that's a boundary. They they don't want to talk about it with people. Um so I I remember being like, oh, this is actually nine not as kind as I think that it is. Like, so then okay, I want to have at least a few options that people can just call by name. They sound like a cocktail, they sound elegant, they sound mature. These word, these are all 21 plus places. Everybody's included, they don't need to call attention to this if they don't want to. If they want to have a more in-depth conversation about like what we have available, because we always have like different juice and fruit, like, yeah, let's go for it. But I definitely think my perspective is a lot about just being inclusive and having everybody in on the experience. And I think we in our bars have thought differently about um like what we offer because I feel like there was also in the kind of beginning of like, especially like when seed lip was coming out, and now there's so many options, but just trying to recreate cocktails in non-alcoholic form, which a lot of them like don't necessarily work. But also for a lot of people, they have never drank. So they don't have a reference point for a paloma or a Negroni. Yeah, they just want something delicious that feels like as thoughtful and elegant as what their friend is getting. And then some people there is a lot, and I do it too, of like just taking time off, but like you still want to be out, you still want to be social. I don't want to skip things just because I feel awkward, I'm not drinking. Um so I think there's a lot more situational moderation than there used to be. And I like that people feel comfortable being like, not today, but I'm still coming to your thing, or like I'm going to a meeting, like, I gotta stay sharp. Uh, you know, how could you like you want to support people, like you wanna you need to be sharp tomorrow? Okay, I got you.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:11

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

Which that opens also another conversation of like working in this industry and you know, having non-alcoholic uh uh options, it gives you the opportunity that going out, but at the same time, it's like we have to be mindful of like how dangerous could be like also like going out every day with friends and everything, and then doing shots, shots, shots. And then people have you know uh issues with like addiction and and things like that. And I feel like the industry has been uh very supportive in the like the past years of like helping others of like either mental issues, like uh inclusivity and uh you know racial issues and addiction issues. So I feel like the industry is not just about selling alcohol, it's also you know, be part of like social change.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

Yeah, and that Is like true care for people versus like I've had a lot of conversation with with bar people on the bar team over the year about like kind of once they get into this cocktail thing, and there is there can be parties every night. But I also always say there's always also another party. Like you don't always have to go to this one. Or you'll make a lot of real friends in this business, but not everyone is your friend. Like who really has your best interest at heart? Um and sometimes it's just a good time, and there's people along for a good time, and that's fine. But I think yeah, to truly take care of yourself, you do need to like see that balance for you and like you know, advocate for yourself, respect yourself about where you are in life, and again, like there's always another party. You're not gonna get left behind if you need to take some time off or you know or you're not competing against anyone, right? Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:51

Uh the only competition is against you.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:54

Uh and of course if you join SpeedRec.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:57

But uh, you know, a Then you're in the most community-based competition.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:03

Uh Megan, I d have this question for you. Like, uh what legacy do you have to live for this industry? Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:12

Um my legacy. I think okay, a few things. It's gonna be a long answer. But I love service. So I think like the art and the true love of hosting people, I hope people take from me, like not just the actual drink in front of you, but like the whole experience that we're thinking about. Um I think trusting your instincts and building your own perspective, like I have done that for myself and I have helped other people, so I will just keep doing that till the day I fall over. So I feel like that. Um yeah, and I think building like I think I have a quiet confidence, and I hope if that makes more people feel comfortable about like not having to be anybody else but themselves and like feeling grounded, like if I can be a part of that, it's very rewarding to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:10

Yeah, and and and like I say, like I mentioned earlier, people is watching. Yeah people is always watching, and um and I'm sure that I I've had a lot of people who look up to you, you know. Like they don't probably don't approach you because you know, because what we just mentioned. And they're like, oh exactly. And like you say hi, and and and same thing with Lynette, like you guys you approach them, talk to them. You know, they're humans, they're gonna they're gonna say hi too.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:34

I mean, also I will tell you for me, I can only think for me, everybody's trying to sell me something. So when people just want to say hi, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:44

That's another thing. Yeah, that's that's another thing, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:48

And uh I mean talking about legacy, talking about talking to you and and uh um people that they want to know about you. I I saw that besides all the Instagram pages for for the uh your businesses and your personal, you also have another that it's a la alumni.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:07

Yeah, I have not been good at it lately, I will say. But to me, like I really love to keep up connection with people, like people I've traveled with, people that have worked for me. And I got very reflective when Reigns was turning 15. That like just how many people had come through there, and sometimes it's years and sometimes it's a few months. Um, but just like how many people were were kind of like in my orbit, and and people have said to me like that experience was like it's something I think about a lot. It's a foundation for like how I've moved forward. So I love to keep up with people and like see what they're just what they're doing, whether it's in this industry or not. Like, uh, I just I always say like I'm a cheerleader, like I want to be in the background, like I made a photo of your face, like it's on a stick, like go for it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:57

Before you go, I want to ask you a question.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:01

The Gibson.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:03

We love the Gibson. And I think like, you know, like of course when we went to uh Rainslow and uh we tried a couple of Gibsons, but what will you tell some of the bartenders who are making martinis? Uh what what's the thought behind that?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:20

Like yeah, so uh the Gibson that is very well known from Deer Irving, I made it for our opening menu, and this was 2014, so it was like right around the time that Instagram was becoming a thing. So I did a little bit think about I thought about the visuals of drinks much more than I ever had, which is where I thought about that red pearl onion.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:40

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:41

And it was also the first space that we had that really had, I mean it's small, but we had a kitchen, we could make more things than we did. I will say it also was one of those things about like just trusting my own palate and what I liked because I have heard about people working on drinks 80 times for months and months, and like I have definitely had ideas that took a while. I made that drink like a couple times and I was like, I love it. Um and I I wanted people to rediscover the Gibson because at that time it wasn't very popular. Um, it wasn't definitely undersung as like a classic, but also like a lot of the pickled onions on the market were not very good. So it was like the kind of craft of making a pickle in-house, which you can do a million different ways. Um just a very balanced, delicious drink made the same way every time, very consistent. Um, it just has like I did not think we'd be making it forever and ever. I'm glad we are. But if that I can't tell people like that was my whole goal. Like, I was like, I'm gonna make a great Gibson. You know, it's gonna kind of bring it back. People will be interested in Gibsons again, and now I'm like 12 years later, I'm like, poor Gibsons. Yeah. But I will say it's like a credit to the drink. Like, I still drink it. A lot of people have had it a million times and still love it. And there is that comfort comfort factor of cocktails that I love. I love adventurous things, I love to see what people are doing, but like I'm a girl that sits at the bar. Like, I also want my comfort things at the end of the day sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:09

Something that you like.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:11

Yeah, that's like I know exactly how this is gonna taste and feel.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:14

Awesome. Thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:16

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:18

Uh, and forever for whoever is not watching this, uh, but they are listening on a Spotify or whatever you uh listen to your podcast. Can you tell your uh social handle so they can find you on Instagram?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:30

Uh so I am at GingerRicky, which is a nod to my red hair and a cocktail. So ginger r- I c E Y. And then of course at Dear Irving at Rain's Law Room, if you want to follow the bars as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:44

Yes, please follow them. And you wanna find every single place and every single cocktail and people how they enjoy your colours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh well, uh Epla, do you want to have something else to add?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:55

No, I want to thank you. Uh this was this was an honor. Uh it was an honor to have you. And we wanna finish by saying Oh, but you wanna send any shout-outs to your team or anyone in particular?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:07

Oh, yes. I want to say hello to everyone in the group chat that I'm gonna send this to. Yeah, yeah. But also everyone that has clocked in at Rain's Lobroom or Dear Irving, you're part of the story, and I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:21

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:23

That's so cool. Um thank you, thank you, thank you. Uh I really, really um I'm so happy to have you here because it's an honor, like Edgar says, uh, and you take the time to come to our studio and uh, you know, sharing your story with the audience. And we hope that uh you such hospitality in this in our way. Lovely, lovely. Uh we are very happy that you're supporting us and people are uh believing in our job that we love also the industry. We try to uh empower everybody who doesn't have a spot because uh there is a lot of like, you know, just um and it's not bad, but there is a lot of places that they just focus on, like famous or trends and everything. Uh we're from New York, we love New York, and we're gonna have uh a lot of faces from New York. So if you have anyone to you wanna see here, please comment and uh we'll have him here. Make a request.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:14

Yeah. All right, guys. Thank you so much, Buddy. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:17

Thank you for another episode. Thank you. Bye, sorry. Um don't forget to tip your fa your bartenders and uh please uh follow, subscribe, and comment.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:29

And uh for more episodes like this, go to our webpage without gamebar nest.com.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:36

And uh we'll see you next time, guys. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:39

Hasta la vista, baby.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:42

Bye bye.