What If Success Is Helping A Town Believe In Its Own Art?

A single painting can hold a lifetime — joy, grief, and the courage to start again. That’s the energy we explore with painter Karen Ellsbury, co-owner of HEart Gallery in downtown Farmington, as she shares how her work evolved from luminous “color in motion” canvases to raw abstraction after widowhood, and then into vibrant collaborations with her husband, photographer Patrick Hazen. Their “photo fusions” — his images extended by her brush — have turned heads, including a collector who made wall space by moving a Salvador Dalí. The story isn’t about bragging rights; it’s about believing you belong.

We talk about building a gallery on a shoestring, reshaping a backyard into an event space with a tiny grant and community muscle, and saying “yes” when a local musician asked to start jazz jams. That “place-making” spark drew neighbors, free press, and a rhythm that helped the creative economy hum. Karen opens up about imposter syndrome, boundaries that protect the creative flow, and why accessible pricing matters as much as museum-level work. She’s honest about the hard parts too: Covid closures, fewer tourists, the pivot to fairs and First Fridays, and the ongoing work to make Farmington an art destination without forcing artists to leave for Santa Fe.

If you’re a creative, a small business owner, or a fan of community-powered revitalization, you’ll find practical ideas and emotional fuel here — defining success on your terms, laughing at the missteps, and keeping the brush moving when uncertainty looms. We also preview what’s next at HEart Gallery: an outdoor deck, a 1,000-square-foot back building, and plans for an immersive Airbnb-style art retreat with hikes, photo tours, and plein air sessions. Subscribe, share with a friend who loves local art, and leave a review with your favorite takeaway—what would you build in your town?

Be sure to follow or subscribe!  And, if you're a local business owner who'd like to be featured - or know someone whose story should be told - get in touch at Ken@StrategicHorizonsConsulting.com

This show is brought to you by Strategic Horizons Consulting (a division of Ken Collins Marketing).

Transcript

Karen’s Art And Evolving Style;

SPEAKER_03 1:05

I'm here with Karen Ellsberry, the co-owner of Heart Gallery. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Okay, well, my name, you already know, it's Karen Ellsbury. I'm an artist. I've been an artist for probably around 50 years. And uh my husband Patrick Hazen and I have had a gallery in downtown Farmington since 2013. So we've had this one. We moved in somewhere in COVID, you know. At this point, um, I'm not young anymore, so I can't remember exact dates. It's just the way it is. And so I primarily paint uh with um with um uh yeah, good. Oh, I am so brilliant. Um, but did I mention I was old? Okay. And can I just say dementia runs in my family? Let me just preface that so you can all just be like, okay, she's not a complete moron. Uh she just lost her brain for a second. So I paint primarily with acrylics, and I do sort of, I don't know, it it's maybe abstract, maybe a little bit uh expressionism. It's arguably hard to decide where to put that category.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

I've watched you um evolve a bit. I'm seeing one back here, and I forget what is it, mandela?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Or we just call it color and motion, but it is kind of like a mandala, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 2:27

Sort of mandala-ish type of paintings. You were doing a lot of those, right? Super cool, very colorful, and then you started branching out. Some of that um statement is literal. Yes, it is because you have some tree branches stuff that's super cool.

Loss, Control, And Abstract Expression;

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Thank you. Yeah, and and you know, well, life changes you. Oh, yeah. So that's part of what changed me. And it's really interesting as an artist to look back at your work and realize, oh, wow, I didn't expect life to change me that much. I thought this is gonna be my style, this sort of color in motion, abstract, sort of George O'Keefe, but less realistic, less representational. And um, and then you know, life changed. And I went through some stuff. I I became, I was widowed, and then I think then my art got really abstract and really just like almost Pollock-like, just throwing what paint or dripping it and letting it happen because I realized later that I felt out of control or I recognized because I'm I think what I did is recognize that we aren't in control.

SPEAKER_04 3:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

So as humans, we like to think we're in control, we kid ourselves into thinking we might have some control.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

But the truth is the only thing we can control is how we react to what life throws at us.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Yeah. So that changed. Yeah. But then when I met Patrick and we got married in around 2011, and he's a photographer. So of course he's bringing real super realism into our our little life together. Um, and then I sort of like uh started being a little more representational and feeling a little more comfortable, probably, or just happier, let's be honest.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

You know, being in a relationship is really great.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

Yeah. Yeah. When you have your your confidant, your person that you can share deep, dark secrets that you don't want anybody else to know.

unknown 4:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Yeah, because everybody thinks I'm really nice. I get the same thing. Oh, he's the nicest guy.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Just don't make me mad, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Having said I didn't even know you swore for a year. I'm like, well, I mean, you know, I used to feel really guilty about I said, well, you shouldn't have made me mad. Now I just don't know it's his fault.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

It's totally his fault. Why'd you make me mad? You made me do that.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

I was happy.

Partnership, Photography, And New Joy;

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Yeah. So, so yeah, your first gallery, it was Studio 116, right? Exactly. So it was still downtown. You kind of moved across the street and down a little bit, and whatnot. But now you have this one. Um, so when when did I guess for both, when you first set up your first one and then decided to move to this one, when when did the when did this the business stop being an idea and and start becoming something real for you?

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Right. When I moved to, well, when we bought the first one, I guess that's when it became real. And um, you know, it was scary. Oh my gosh, I went, it was so traumatic for me. I thought, why am I doing this? Because we just really uh pretty much did it on a shoestring. Because that I mean, honestly, if you're gonna try to have an art gallery, you have to do it for the passion, yeah, not for the real business success. You have to define set success in a much different way as an artist than you would as an actual, you know, business person per se.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

So um we I just had um I had worked at a regular job and I thought, no, this is not working for me. So I might as well just try this.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

And because of Patrick, because he was working, um, then we could afford to buy that. And it's a little tiny building, and and it just kind of fell into our lap. And I thought, well, you know, uh having already been widowed at like 49 years old, I knew that you never know how long you have on this earth. So you just gotta grab every opportunity. Yeah. Also, I'm very good at failing. So I figured, what the heck? Why not go for it? Failure's not the end, it isn't a big deal. Like I failed.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

Okay, don't do that anymore.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Learn from it, move on, you know. So that's when we did that. And I also feel like very lucky that I had like the fat the way I was raised and the people that gave me encouragement.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

You know, my parents were wonderful. And my mom at that point was living in a rest home. And I called her up one day and I said, Well, there's this little building downtown. I'm thinking about buying it and opening an art gallery, and she's like, You could do it. Like, I mean, she just didn't even do it. No hesitation, nothing. And so you're just like, when you have that kind of support and love in your life, yeah, like you just try things.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

You absolutely can do it.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yes, you absolutely can. Apparently, you can. Right. We managed, you know.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Yeah, very cool. So, so okay, so you buy the building, you're in it, it becomes real. Like, oh my God, what did I just do? Yeah, I'm doing this thing. So, when was there a moment when you thought, okay, this might actually work?

SPEAKER_00 7:39

I think, you know, when we bought the building, and then all of a sudden we're like, um, let's turn the backyard into a cute little event space. And then we got a little grant, you know, so we got a little support from the New Mexico Main Street or something, and the community came out, yeah, and we built that whole backspace with community support and very little money.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

I think maybe$5,000 and community support built that whole event space.

Buying The First Gallery On Grit;

SPEAKER_03 8:05

Now there's a there's a push for places making places, spaces, public places for people to congregate, especially downtown. Right. So I'm trying to remember, were you the first? There's an orchard park down here. Right. Um, but aside from that, that's a city-run park. Were you the first kind of place maker?

SPEAKER_00 8:27

And we wanted to make that place, and then we and then just randomly out of the blue, Delver Anderson came in and said, Hey, I'm looking for a place to do these jazz jams. And he'll tell the story. He's been all over, he had been all over town, and everyone had told him no.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

And uh, and of course, I was very happy to tell him yes. Because I didn't know what I was gonna do with it. And I had business people ask me, Well, what is your business plan for this space? And I'm like, Business plan? I'm just gonna see what the universe brings me. So you know that these people are true businessmen, yeah, and they had to just look at them, each other, and think, oh my gosh, she's gonna never make it. Yeah, but it depends on what you need. Yeah, you know, it filled what I needed because then I needed to feel like I was helping the community, and it became a gorgeous thing. I mean, yeah, the jazz jams were so well attended. We got free publicity off of it. Delbert got a lot of free free publicity from starting them, kind of pushed him on his career. Yeah, now he travels all over the world and sells out music venues in New York City and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Very well, sometimes what's good for you is good for the whole community.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

It's amazing when that happens because I mean, truly, as artists, we're pretty self-centered. Sometimes, yeah. I mean, it's normal. So when I first wanted Patrick to start showing his photography, it was just so he'd help me go to art shows. I know I mean that's not a joke. I I wish it was a joke, but I thought he'll he'll get burned out. Let much, much uh uh it'll take him much longer to get burned out on slapping this stuff around if he's got a buy-in, you know. And now he wins awards for it. So yeah, sometimes your selfish motives turn into good things. Like, oh, thanks, God, or whoever. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

So your first one, um, it was smaller um but by a few hundred square feet, and then and and super cute. Yeah, this one's bigger, yeah. Um, but you also have a space next door, so you have your whole gallery here, right? Um, and then the a space next door with several other artists that that rent space in there and um and whatnot. So that's cool. So it's grown into something bigger. So if you could go back from where you are now to day one and whisper something to yourself, what what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Like, it's gonna be okay. Don't panic because I think I panicked every day for at least a year and a half, and I'm like, okay, we're doing okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

It's a strange thing business owners go through. Um this weird sense of excitement and dread all at one time. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

And it and I I mean, I might, I I think it's an adrenaline rush of a different kind. Yeah, there are people who love that risk taking adrenaline rush. I I take I cannot do that. Yeah, but I can risk my whole, you know, livelihood. Like, yeah, let's try that. Yeah you know, so I think it is an adrenaline rush to some degree.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

Yeah, yeah, very true. So, what part of your work feels the most meaningful to you, even on the hard days? I mean, I think I know the answer, but do you maybe you tell me?

SPEAKER_00 11:54

I think okay, there's several things that have been really great for me.

SPEAKER_04 11:57

Yeah.

Place-Making And Jazz Jams Bloom;

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Um so when I I was very lucky to have a few pieces put in a medical thing, and Presbyterian Medical Services in their in their waiting room have uh clays of my early style.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

And some of those pieces that I painted were after I was widowed, and and I was grieving, and I and and so the painting was my way of healing my grief, and yeah, I put a lot of pain into them. But and the cool thing was uh during that time, and I'm like really upset and you know, by myself, so I can cry and shout and you know, do all the good, healthy, grieving things, but you don't want to do it public.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

And um, but the paintings turned out to be pretty after all. So they turned out to be beautiful. So I thought that was a really good thing for me. Like I could put pain and suffering into something, and it didn't make the rest of the world sad. It turned out to be something pretty. But I also occasionally have people message me on Facebook or talk to me and say, I was having a mental health day and I saw your piece down there at PMS, and it helped me a lot. Now I feel like a success.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

That's meaningful for me. Like, okay, Karen, you know, you're a success. And a couple other things. I was really lucky last year to have someone just randomly get stuck in Farmington because they were on their way to like tell you ride in their motorhome broke down or whatever, they weren't even gonna come here, got towed here from Wolf Creek Pass, and they loved our photo fusions. So the thing I do with Patrick is really meaningful to me. That's a really cool thing. So I take his photos, have them printed on canvas, and paint around them. So those are our collaborations. And that guy fell in love with them and he bought one without any trouble, one of the larger ones. He money didn't seem to be a problem for him. He said he collected art. I'm like, that's cool. The next day he came back to get it. He's like, Well, the piece that I'm moving to put your place in there because it fits better is an original Salvador Dolly. I'm like, oh. Let's just chuck that guy to the side. I mean, he's I'm sure he's putting it somewhere else in his house. That's not supposed to be realistic. But I'm like, oh, what? And he's like, Told you I collected art. Like, oh, you really are an art collector. Yeah. So that made me say you don't get to feel imposter syndrome anymore. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Yeah, definitely. Um, so many artists specifically go through that um imposter syndrome thing. It takes a long time for it to finally sink in that no, people really do love your work and they really do want to pay money for it, and they really do want to meet you and appreciate you because you're the one that created it. It's like, what?

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Yeah, exactly. Right. Who's just sad and paid into painting? You know, right? I'm probably I promise I'm not that special. But you then someone say, You can't do that, Karen. You can't don't tell people that you're not special. You're making them feel wrong. Right. I'm like, oh, you need you have to learn how to be gracious. But it is hard.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Because you're like, I'm really just a little tiny girl from you know, out by Cedar Hill and Poda nowhere, you know.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

Yeah, I was gonna say at work. You're you're you're painting.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's the thing that gives me the best joy. Like just the process of painting is so beautiful and and it does feel, it does feel sort of magical, or maybe just, you know, when you're in the flow, yeah, it just comes from a a cool place. You can't even find words for how cool that feels.

SPEAKER_03 15:33

You know, I I that might be part of why I like artists so much, because there's that really kitschy makes me cream saying it. Just do what you love. Right. But artists do.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

Um yeah. And and not all of them get to make a a living, a living from it. And you're doing that. So and when it's hard, I remind myself that. Right. So what's something the business gave you that you didn't expect?

Imposter Syndrome To Validation;

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Well, I suppose I did not expect people to think that I was special at all like that. I mean, I knew they would think my art I mean, I was hoping, I did not know that. I was hoping they would think my art was was good enough to purchase. But I think that unexpectedly people look up to me and and then I would have encouraged younger uh artists, because that's part of why we're here, is to, you know, lift each other up. And then they've given me a lot more credit than I probably deserve. And and I think uh some people like let's visit Farmington people, for instance, uh in the beginning, they gave me a lot of credit for um helping to redevelop downtown. I I'm not sure I deserve that much credit, but um it was very kind though. That was unexpected.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

I mean, that was part of build putting together the art walks that was you know to get people downtown.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

You did that, you know, that's you started that ball rolling it on. I didn't get here on my own.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

But we needed more of it down here, and running a gallery is not an easy thing to do. So, you know, we had anchors, we had artifacts and wall art on either side of Main Street, and and we were using Andrew Christina's in the middle. And um, but that was kind of it. I mean, the rest of it was uh great, you know, art in a shoe store for the night, and you know, all these other little stores, awesome, awesome thing. But to have more galleries down here would be amazing. That was my dream. You were definitely one of that. You're I mean, you were yeah, we did it.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

We just like that. Was my dream. It really my dream, and I remember seeing that a long time ago, uh, to um Sarah Tiofano was a fact was I would love to have a gallery and live above it. That was just my dream. Yeah, and it sometimes I just have to pinch myself, like I really we made we made this dream come true. Actually, do we have Catherine? I mean, I couldn't have done it without him.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

I mean, you know that's not to diminish you in any kind of way, because most people need some kind of help. Almost everyone needs some kind of help from some other person.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Nobody is an island.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

Oftentimes, that other person that gave you all the help that you couldn't have done it without him does not get any credit or whatever, but they're not in it for that. They're there to support and love you.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

They're just wonderful humans, and which Patrick truly is. But and he doesn't realize he, I mean, he doesn't give himself enough credit for how important he is. He's another artist. It's totally normal. Yeah, he's like, I'm just a photographer, anyone could do this. I'm like, Patrick, no, you have a really good eye for photography. You have you have that just that sort of genesic qua that gives you that special thing you see in your own beautiful way. Yeah, and he's kind of blind too, which I think is part of it. You know, he doesn't really see very well. Wow, I know, so maybe which I think is a blessing. You know, I can't tell how old I'm getting.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

Maybe he just sees things differently. I've I've run across that so many times. There are a ton of artists who actually are dyslexic. Yes, and it yes, I think that plays a part because they just see things a little differently than the whole rest of us see things, right? And um I think most artists are a little bit on the spectrum, and I'm myself included.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Could be. I mean, I own it, might be that I'm okay with it. I'm not sure that's a negative thing. No, we are just cool individuals and have some sort of gift to bring to the world, you know?

SPEAKER_03 19:44

Yeah, yeah. Just deal with the neurosis to try and bring it.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

You just have to find someone with the common neurosis as yours. This is probably why I've been married five times. Happy to be married four. I mean, you know, we had to find someone just weird like us.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

So so um how how is how is running this? How's being involved in this journey down here changed you as a person?

Boundaries, Burnout, And Growth;

SPEAKER_00 20:13

I mean, it is hard. Don't you know it is hard, and and I have to um really um I really have to love it, but I think how has it changed me as a person? Well, I think I'm a I think I've grown a lot as a person. I might have learned to be more tolerant. Okay um I've also learned to be empathetic but not own other people's issues.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Because, you know, as an artist, people like to tell you their stories and sometimes they're pretty rough. And if you own all of those, you can get really depressed.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

So you have to learn how to love people and still have your boundaries. I have learned boundaries from from working down here.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Absolutely. Yeah, it's important and it's not a lesson um many people actually end up learning. They just keep. Taking it all in and yeah, it destroys them over time.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

And you know, I've learned about myself too that you know I'm sort of a people pleaser a little bit too much sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

And then, you know, it's it's all a balance, it's just learning to balance too.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

And age does that. I don't know if it I don't know if it's the gallery that did it or just time, you know.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

Maybe a little bit of immersion therapy, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Probably so.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

You you had to, because you're dealing with way more people than when you're just in your own bubble of creating art and occasionally an event to like sell that art.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Yeah, and then you've now you've got on for that event traffic. But now you have your all your days and your bad days. And yeah, here we are.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

So either figure it out or or let it let it crush you. Yeah.

unknown 22:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

And I probably once a year I think I just don't want to do this anymore. So I'll I am, you know, I still have my moods. And I'm really glad that those people that had the mental health issues talked to me because I said, you know what, we all have them. I mean, could because the thing that I found here is that people think I'm special in some way, but um, but I don't want them to think I'm so special that I'm not human and I don't also have good days and bad days.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

Right. Yeah, that's um um that's an important thing. I've I've seen that with celebrities uh a lot, where you know there's this kind of uh I you idolize them, and then um that is sometimes that can be crushed when you finally learn, oh, they're actually a human. Right exactly with flaws and they make mistakes and bad judgments and things like that. So um when that door finally opens, it's healthy to expand that out to everyone and try and remember that okay, this person maybe you believe they're super, super cool, and they probably are, but you know, give them some some leeway. Yeah, that they're not always going to be the super, super cool person, they're gonna make some mistakes.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

So yeah, yeah. I just yeah, I don't want anyone to put me on a pedestal, really. Uh, I don't. And my art, maybe. I'd be okay with them putting my art in a pedestal. Yeah, I think sometimes younger people when they meet me, they're like, what? Because they're like, oh, they didn't really expect me to be this old. You know what I mean? Because I can they can relate to my art in a way because I feel like, you know, the best thing that I have learned from this, or one of them, is to embrace your inner child and be fine with it and just be brave about, yeah, I'm a kid at heart, it's okay. Right. I can still be responsible. I still, you know, pay my bills and take my dogs to the dog park and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

Yeah. You know, being an adult, an adult thing, that's used to be a phrase. I don't know if it still is anymore, but um, that doesn't preclude play. Play is an important part. And that in court that you know that can be all kinds of different things. You just play with your art, yeah, you know, whatever. But yeah, experiment.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

I experiment all the time.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

I think that's I think having my gallery is giving me that. Our gallery, I say it's mine, but that because when I started, Patrick was still working. I was so glad when he retired and helped me. Then it changed everything, then it became a lot easier, yeah. Less of a burden. But there were people that helped me. There's no way I could have done it without this community.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. So what's something that people assume is easy in your business that definitely isn't?

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Being here every day. Yeah. Like, come on, being here every day is hard sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Like oh, you have a doctor's appointment.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Why were you late today?

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Yeah.

Pivots Through Covid And Economy;

SPEAKER_00 24:56

I mean, I'm an artist. My previous job, they gave me at least 30 minutes. They're like, oh, you're gonna snap on.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

Let's see. We just had a guest walk in. So we're gonna we're gonna plug on until we need to do something different.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Sorry, I'm doing a little podcast here for a second. Oh, you're fine. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

All right. Um what's what's part of the one part of the business that finally clicked after a long time of trial and error?

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Wow. Has part of it clicked yet? I'm not sure I know the answer yet. I hadn't really considered that. Um I think maybe the thing that finally clicked is um just stick with it and it'll be okay. Like I think finally now I'm not afraid that oh, we're gonna fail. Yeah. Like, oh yeah, you know what? If you're if you keep doing it and keep putting it out there and you're being genuine, it'll all yeah, it'll all work out.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

I'm making this up, obviously. Because I I mean I'm pretty retrospective, but I had I don't think of myself as a business person all that much.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

Right. So that's that's that's your artist mind telling you that. You you are a business person.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Apparently. Apparently I'm doing okay. Apparently I'm doing okay. I do have a little bit of left brain there. Yeah. Not all right brained.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

So, what's the hardest lesson being involved in this has taught you that you're now grateful for?

SPEAKER_00 26:46

I don't know. I don't think I can have an answer to that. Yeah. I don't know. I'm sure I've had little lessons that all added up to something big. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

Um is there is there an oppos obstacle that you didn't expect to face in the past year?

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Well, yeah, I think there there have been a couple obstacles. I mean, uh, our economy has been a little rough in the the last year. And um and we've had less tourism, so we've had to kind of pivot. But I think in and I think one thing that life has taught me is how to pivot.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

So um we had several obstacles since we've opened these doors. Um, when we first bought this building, we weren't necessarily intending to move our gallery here. We bought it for rental income to support the other gallery because, as you know, gallery owners don't necessarily make a lot of money. So I thought this will help with the income stream if we have renters. And then we redeveloped the downtown and COVID hit and they all went out of business. So that was a pivot. Yeah. And so we pivoted there and um decided to move to sell the other our house and our little gallery and move upstairs and and follow through on that early dream. And um, and then now this year, then in about two years ago, we when we opened up the second side. We had a renter before that, Dilbert Anderson, the musician, and he didn't need that space anymore. And again, my first instinct was to keep it for myself because I'm a selfish artist. But then I started thinking about it and I realized and I thought, oh, wait, Karen, you didn't get here on your own. And part of your mission is to reach out to other artists, and yeah, and part of my mission is to let the world know the great art that is in Farmington, New Mexico. Absolutely. I want us to become an art destination. Oh, you know, we have, I mean, Santa Fe has nothing on us. We have great artists here. Yeah, we have beautiful landscapes that are so inspiring.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Yeah.

Access To Art And Local Pride;

SPEAKER_00 29:00

And we have, you know, the earth here is beautiful and we were close to it. It's it's almost naked when you're in the desert, you know. Like we're not covered with a bunch of trees. We can feel the earth, we can see the layers, we can see how it developed and was created eons ago. All those things are so inspiring. But then it came to me like, okay, you can't be, you know, don't be selfish care and share with the others. And that has been a blessing to us and helped us through this hard times. But I also take a lot of responsibility because when it's slow, I have other people depending on me trying to get people in here.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

So we've learned how to pivot, and then we started going to a little more craft fairs and doing the things to reach out to the community, like, hey, look at who we are, come and see us down here. And yeah. So learning to adapt.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Don't depend on, like, oh, I'm gonna depend on tourists to come through here. I need it all. We need the whole community and the tourism and everything to come together to truly succeed.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

Yeah. Yeah, I I believe, and maybe, maybe uh uh maybe I'm too involved or used to be too involved, so that brain is still in there that art plays a a big part of it. You know, we're doing a lot of outdoor recreation stuff and everything, and that's definitely a part. You know, there are other aspects to what goes on here in Farmington that that um that is a part, and but I believe art is a is a big part. And you were making me remember um by mentioning Santa Fe and whatnot, that that used to be part of my talking points when when trying to get people to understand what we have here as far as art goes. That if you go to Santa Fe, and that's actually what was happening, people would drive from Farmington to Santa Fe to the galleries to find art. And when they did that, there was a very big chance that the art that they bought would be from a local artist here, Farmington, Aztec Bloomfield, in the general area right here. Yeah, which is crazy. It is crazy. So just stay here and buy it.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Yeah, and that it's still a it's a it's an ongoing struggle as artists for people in your own town to recognize that oh, we can actually buy art that has value here. We don't have to go to where everyone says sure where where are the sophisticated places to buy art.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Art should be for everyone. And so one of the things that we try to have that's been part of our success, I think, is to have art that is financially uh, you know, available.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Yeah. Like, oh, I can buy something for$20, I can buy something for$20,000 at the same place. So whatever fits into your budget, but everyone should have fine art and real art in their lives. Yeah. It makes a difference. And it helps our economy. I mean, art is proven to help the economy. So I feel like finally, um, it has taken a little while, but I be I believe that the city fathers are behind it now, and that we have you started that, we helped build it, and now it's kind of that ball is rolling. And I I feel like we're on the verge of greatness here in Farmington.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

Yeah, yeah. So is there is there an area where you feel stretched the thinnest right now?

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Um probably just time. Like I feel like I need to be involved in the community, and it's hard for me to find time to do everything that I want to do.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Also, I might just have FOMO and want to do everything. Yeah. Sometimes you have to say, like, you don't have to do everything.

Time, Community Roles, And Tradeoffs;

SPEAKER_03 32:43

Yeah. Yeah. It seems like that's the the biggest thing for you because the being here every day challenge, every day on time, within your operating hours. It's right. Yeah, I mean, it's a commitment. And uh it is. So yeah, it does make it more difficult to do other things.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

So I want to be involved with the community. And um, you know, I recently joined the Red Coats and I feel like I'm failing that because I don't like they're having a I'm like, well, I can't leave right now. I just can't. And I'm like, okay, that was probably a mistake. I wanted to do it, but um, yeah, it might not be feasible.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

Well, your heart is the one that's making you make those those decisions. It just doesn't always yeah, it's not always convenient.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

Yeah. So what's something you're building now that that customers will notice later?

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Well, currently we're working on our backspace, so we're building another little event space out back. Okay. It's really close to perfect. Um, we did get another grant from the AARP like two years ago, and we have a deck out there, it's a smaller space, but we also have a thousand square foot um building behind here. It's kind of just, it was a garage, it's kind of a storage area, yeah. It's a really cool space. So we're hoping to develop it into something uh, you know, that helps uh with the infrastructure of downtown. Um, we have several options, but I think the one that's probably the most viable for how old we are and what we're man we can manage is making uh even a little Airbnb back there and having some cool things for people to come here. They can have a whole experience, Airbnb experience, take them out on hikes and photo tours or plain air painting and just some really cool interactive. That's my next goal, and now we just need funding.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

So I guess that's what I'm stretched in on is money funds. Art wheel. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Oh, okay. So if you could, if you could you've you've mentioned time, if you could remove one responsibility tomorrow, what what would that free you up to do? Let's say if you didn't have to worry about all the time elements.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Yeah. Well, that would free me up to spend more time in nature. Yeah, like that's my inspiration right there. Just being outdoors, you know, earthing. Those are so important to our mental health, to our physical health, you know, getting your exercise in. Like I go up and down stairs every day. Like, I'm like, we gotta do that, we gotta keep this. Patrick's like, we need to think about getting an elevator. Nope, not nope. There's first there's no space for it. And secondly, you know, you got to keep moving. So I probably would just be outdoors more. And um, yeah, that would be my favorite thing to do.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

I mean, I see that in your art. So yeah, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

So what is what does success look like now? And and um has that definition changed over time?

Building An Experience Space Out Back;

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Oh, I think success is just um probably not changed. So success for me has always just been being able to have everything I need, all my needs met, and my needs are fairly small. Sure, luckily, because then maybe it's maybe can actually happen. And so financially being comfortable enough to not have to worry about anything. And um, you know, I think we've been pretty good at that because it's very important not to feel like if I don't sell something, I won't eat. Um, those things add so much stress to your life, it's not worth it. So we're at a place just because we're retired that we can we'll eat no matter what. Sure. You know, so I think that success to me would be um I think success would for me right now would be to become more well known outside of Farmington.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Like I think people in Farmington say you're famous. I said, Well, I'm Farmington famous, I tell them, which is I'm not complaining. Right. But it's not like being real, real fame, like world famous.

SPEAKER_04 36:50

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

So well, why not dream big? Right. That would be my ideal success then.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

Well, you still have you keep having art collectors collecting your stuff, and that will lead there.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

That's I know, fingers crossed.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

So what's what's um, and maybe it's that, what's one thing you hope your business is known for five years from now?

SPEAKER_00 37:11

You know, I think it I might I would like to the business to be known for helping to further art in Farmington. And yeah, for bringing people from outside the area here to buy art. That would be great. That would be really great.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

That'd be part of my dream for sure.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

Most definitely. So um you've talked about some of this, about how you you kind of hope your your business makes life better in the four corners. What's um something that this community has done for you that you'll never forget?

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Wow, yeah. I think all the things like the thing this community has done for me is like show up when I said we're gonna build this, and they came and built it, you know. And if I say the community during COVID, you know, I'm like, I have stuff for sale online, and they would say, Okay, and I would drop drop it at their door, like they showed up for us. It's it's almost makes me emotional to think about how much our community has given to us, yeah, and really supported us and believed in us. And um, yeah, it's incredible. And this summer I was a little discouraged, you know. I'm like, well, what's happening with our economy? And we weren't getting the tourism. And and and so I was talking to some people that are my collectors, and and they were just they just like here, have some money. And I'm like, what? And they're like, what? I'm like, and they're like, no, they're you know, so so there are people who are actually um, you know, uh people who support artists like that. Yeah, there's a word for that. Suddenly it just crossed my I forgot, you know. Uh patron. Patrons, yes. So suddenly I have patrons. Yeah, you guys are my patrons. Those are my friends, but they're also my patrons. Yeah. I felt very honored by that. So that's what the community has done for me. That's giving me people who I really love and who apparently love us back. Not just me, Patrick and I. I'm sorry to talk about myself so much. Patrick, forgive me for that.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

I just uh always assume when you say I that it's it's the two of you. It is.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

It's the royal I. The royal I, yeah. The royal we. Oh. Yeah, like when he says, well, when I say we need to take out the trash, he goes, You mean me? And I'm like, yeah, he's very smart like that.

SPEAKER_03 39:32

When we need to do something.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Yeah, it's pretty much easy.

Defining Success And Wider Reach;

SPEAKER_03 39:37

Oh what's what's the as we start to wrap up here, what's the best advice you've received that actually turned out to be true?

SPEAKER_00 39:49

I don't know. I'm not sure if I'm trying to think whether I've gotten advice from people.

SPEAKER_04 39:58

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Advice that turned out to be true. Because there may be somebody, I don't know if anybody ever said it to your face, but ooh, that's a bad idea. You shouldn't you shouldn't invest that money and open up an art gallery downtown. Yeah, but that turned out to not be true.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

So Yeah, I've had more of that probably. Are you sure you want to do that? Um, you're right. So the best advice that turned out to be true. Okay. Um, okay. My okay, I'll tell you what my father told me once. So that was really he was really full of advice. He was wonderful. One of his best things he told me was uh learn to laugh at yourself because this isn't the first dumb thing you're gonna do in your life, Karen. So if you don't laugh at yourself, you're gonna be laughing alone because the world's laughing about you. So that's one piece of advice. And then he once told me uh toward the end of his life, never stop a painting. He said, It doesn't matter what you do for a living, really. It doesn't have to be what you do for a living. It doesn't matter what your clothes look like or your house or the car you drive. In 300 years, no one will remember any of that. But You might just leave it bot behind a painting that will change the world.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

That's the best advice I've forgotten.

SPEAKER_02 41:11

He was a good daddy.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

He was a great daddy. And I'm pretty sure I wish I would l I wish the whole world could have parents like I had.

SPEAKER_03 41:18

Yeah. Wow. For real. Definitely. So what do you want other small business owners to hear today?

SPEAKER_00 41:27

You know, that we're not alone, that we do have a really good community. And um, you know, and and let's help each other out. And when one of us thrives, we all thrive. So um, you know, that's what I'd like to know. Don't give up and and keep keep keep making it work and do what you have to do and do the hard work, it'll eventually pay off.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Sacrifice, I didn't sacrifice much, but time.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

You know, sure. Maybe I could have done something different with whatever little funds I had, but yeah, this is good, you know. This is this is really fulfilling emotionally.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

And maybe, maybe look at success in your own way, not what the rest of the world tells you success is. I would say that for small businesses. What is it you really want? You're trying to make millions, you may not get there, but are you trying to at the end of the day feel like you've contributed something to the world? Then keep going.

SPEAKER_03 42:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:27

Yeah. Is there something you're celebrating right now, big or small?

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Just living. Right? No. Yeah. Just celebrating. Um, well, I'm celebrating being married to Patrick almost 15 years.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Yeah. Yeah. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. I like that guy. Me too. And you. I mean, you guys are great.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Yeah, we were very lucky to find each other in our old age.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

But we're both tenacious.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

And you're not that old, Karen.

Community Support And Patrons;

SPEAKER_00 42:59

Yeah, not really. Well, if we're talking maturity or actual age.

SPEAKER_03 43:05

Right. Those are two totally different things.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Yeah, I'm really young.

SPEAKER_03 43:10

I'm 12 and 95.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

At the same time.

unknown 43:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:18

Well, this is awesome. I uh I liked your old space. I like your new space. This is super cool. This is my first time in the new space and way impressed, man. Thank you so much. I'm so glad you started a gallery. It's exactly what we needed downtown. Yeah. And um I am too. I actually, I mean, that's the weird thing about galleries. It's not necessarily, especially in maybe in this market, it's not necessarily competition. Like we need more galleries. Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

I would embrace that.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Because I mean, like I have I have preached more than once, Santa Fe wouldn't be Santa Fe with one gallery or three galleries. It needs a lot of galleries. That's what we need. Yeah. And so hopefully that will happen.

SPEAKER_03 44:05

Yeah. Maybe we'll get to a spot. So I go up to Denver several times a year and and uh have a a relative who's an artist up there, and and they're on Santa Fe Drive. Okay. Um, downtown. It's the art district. Yeah. That I mean that's it's in a whole entire section of downtown that's just art and art-related stuff. And some restaurants and whatnot. But yeah, it's it's called the art district, and they they do basically an art walk, a big one, every they call it First Friday. Every first Friday of the month.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

We actually are doing that, by the way. I hadn't mentioned that. We are doing First Fridays, we are doing them here in at Heart Gallery. Not everyone else is jumping on yet.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

But we have these artists next door. Every month we feature one of them. Yeah. And we have an opening on First Fridays for them. We like to have live music. Yeah. And um, and I'm the I think the thing I need to learn more is how to be more uh self-promoting for the business. That's my weakness, probably. Right. That's what I'd like someone to do for me. Um, but uh, and do it for free, of course. Of course, yeah, yeah. I mean, for dreaming, but um, yeah, so we are doing that, and I think I'm hoping that will catch on.

SPEAKER_03 45:21

Awesome. Yeah, brilliant. Well, I love it. And had fun chatting with you. Me too. We haven't just sat down and chatted for a while. We keep running into each other and having five-minute conversations, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

It's not the same. Yeah, you can't get much out of a five-minute conversation. Not really. But you could almost know my whole story. But I miss talking to you so this is great.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

I love it. I'm gonna have to come down more often.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Please do. Yeah, come down on First Fridays. Yeah, have food, snacks, wine. We'll be talking. Awesome. Yeah, that'd be cool.

SPEAKER_03 45:50

And I want to see the back. I'm developing that out. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

Brilliant. Cool. Well, cool. Thanks, Gary.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 45:57

Okay.